re-election. there are names in there, and the community needs to see this, and y'all need -- because the doj stamp is on there, maybe y'all will start taking us seriously now instead of telling us to move on. telling us to sweep it under the rug and not doing a damn thing about it. we need our community. it's hard enough waking up every day and continuing to walk out on these streets and walk to an heb or drive to an heb and see a cop that you know was standing there while our babies were murdered and bleeding out. if this community doesn't care, and i hope that this makes y'all. i also hope this lights a fire up under the district attorney's ass because we know that she has not done a damn thing, and we refuse to accept that. do your job.

>> just introduce yourselves so they know who they're talking to. where do we want to start? >> hi, yeah, so just do you -- >> let them know who you are. >> do you guys feel the report went far enough in naming people and holding people to accountability. the dps has the largest amount of law enforcement people and there's a lot of videos and information about their reactions that day. it doesn't seem that this report really touches on their actions. it seems to focus mostly on the local officers, arredondo and the chiefs. are you concerned about that and maybe some reaction to that? >> i don't see why -- >> would you guys mind coming up to the mic? >> i don't understand why they are allowing privacy. my child, their children, they are named in this report because they are dead. everybody should have been named. >> do you feel -- if i can follow up -- that somehow dps is

off the hook when you look at this report? do any of you just want to -- >> it's kind of hard to answer the question because we've only been given an hour and a half to kind of just look through the report, so we don't even know if they are mentioned in there or not. we would hope that they are because they were there, so we hope that they would be accountable for their actions as well. >> following up on that, monica madden, i know that you said you're still sifting through the report and everything, but were you hoping that the attorney general would have addressed a lot more of the aftermath, the delays in the d.a.'s investigation, dps's investigation into its officers actions and accountability, were you hoping that he would address more of that publicly? >> i mean, of course we would have. we're grateful that we got what we have right now because it's probably the most updated information that any of us have gotten since may 24th, so -- and we're very appreciative of what he's done right now, but yeah, we would have liked to have more

information. >> radio community, did you learn anything new from what you've seen in this report? is there anything you didn't know? >> we knew as families, you know, just kind of talking amongst each other, we knew the failures that had happened. we just kind of -- it makes more clarity now because it's written, and now it's set in stone what we thought is true. >> i did learn something. >> you did? >> i didn't realize that the scene was compromised. >> the scene was compromised. there was people that shouldn't have been there that entered the classroom, that's mentioned in the report. >> and how did it make you feel to learn that? >> i want to continue reading more when we're done here. >> two quick ones, news 4 wikbb in san antonio. in all of your guys' mind, is there any question left that the d.a. should have all that she

needs, all that she is required to have for her investigation to be able to pursue criminal charges now at this point? >> yeah, what else does she need? >> yeah, i mean, this is probably the most extensive piece that we have about all of the failures that happened that day. what else does she possibly need to prosecute or to remove these people from their positions of power when they can't even do their jobs. >> how safe are the children of uvalde right now? >> i think -- i think the point of this is that none of us are safe. that's what, you know, josh just mentioned. none of us are safe because these weapons are on the streets. >> fox san antonio, i've talked to so many of you over the past year. a lot of you recently have expressed concerns about the two-year mark meaning that the statute of limitations for

misdemeanors will expire. are you hoping that this will potentially fast track the upcoming d.a. investigation,ing the ongoing d.a. investigation? >> even the d.a. can't get in our way, fully in our way of an investigation, but it ought to be to your point, it ought to be said that the d.a. with the help of the a.g. here in texas, is fighting the disclosure of a lot of these -- this important information. so the d.a.'s effectively, you know, the d.a. has a job to do. we understand that, but she's locked up this information that these families deserve to have access to to evaluate their legal rights. so there's no reason why she can't do her job so that we can do ours and so that these families get the information they deserve to make the decisions they have to make. >> no time line updates whatsoever? >> i think at this point it's

not a good bet to bet on the d.a.'s time lines. >> quick question, you talk about how -- wanting to conduct that investigation. what's the purpose of it? is it potentially to sue the local law enforcement agencies? what are you hoping? >> it's similar. i mean, of course the doj looks at the criminal. the d.a. is looking at criminal allegations, but the other facet to these incidents is what went wrong, and how can we hold those people accountable and in the other means we do so, which i is by bringing legal actions against them so there's another ince tir act. we have to look at all the angles here, what contributed to this. it should be noted when many of us were growing up, am i the oldest person here, when many of us were growing up we didn't have these routine mass

shootings with ar-15s. but guess what, ar-15s were available. so something's changed so one of the big things we've seen in sandy hook and parkland and other case ss what's changed is the way these weapons are pushed on youth. and this is a tragic and unnecessary example of the repercussions of that. when i was growing up, nobody knew what an ar-15 was and here every kid of a certain age, especially boys know what they are because they're being courted, and they're being courted with other actors like social media. these gun companies are really pushing these products on kids. >> texas tribune, are you suggesting you're going to pursue charges against gun manufacturers? >> i don't bring charges. fair enough. the legal issues that were under consideration now i can't really speak about beyond just the big picture type of things that you have to look at in an incident like this. i mean, there's a lot of factors

that go into some of this. >> for the families, what are the next steps as we have one of these investigations out, there's numerous. the dps is still doing their investigation. we obviously have the d.a. who is still doing theirs. what is next for all of you as you continue to try and move forward and, one, put the day behind you, and two, create change. >> i think we're going to continue fighting. we're going to continue fighting that some type of change is made in honor of our kids. we have nothing left but to fight for them. we are their voices now. so we're going to continue. >> can i just get reaction from someone? the attorney general having him stand there it, very significant moment when he says that lives had officers followed protocols and procedures, that lives could have potentially been saved. how was that -- how was that for you to hear him say that? >> i mean, how do you want us to react to that? i mean. >> because so many people have

not wanted to say that here in the law enforcement official. >> it was pretty hard. >> respectful for telling us, but i mean, it was pretty hard to hear that when he sit there is -- sits there and says, you know, lives could have been saved. i just -- i just couldn't believe it. you know, for these officers to sit there and just not do anything, you know, and still be out here, you know, on the streets like nothing happened, you know. and my daughter's gone. it's hard. it's hard. >> i think we're going to leave it there, folks. >> he wants to say something -- i think he wants to say something. >> thanks, everybody. >> do you have something to say?

>> i'm the grandfather of layla salazar. and this mass shooting here, why is it that our officers -- >> those family members of the victims in the robb elementary school shooting responding to the horrific and disturbing new details that emerged from that exhaustive justice department investigation into the shooting in uvalde. a teenager with an assault rifle took the lives of 19 small children and two teachers. attorney general merrick garland just moments ago getting emotional explaining the consequences of law enforcement's inaction. >> the 19 children and their two teachers who were stolen from their loved ones should be here today. they never should have been targeted by a mass shooter.

we must never forget the shooter's heinous act that day. and the victims and survivors should never have been trapped with that shooter for more than an hour as they waited for their rescue. >> trapped for more than an hour. the nearly 600 page report describes example after example of massive failures of leadership and communication over the course of those deadly minutes. one example, someone, apparently police, asking shooting victims to respond to them. quote, survivors recall hearing someone say, say help if you need help, and when a child cried t, the shooter entered room 112 and 11 and shot him. or for parents on the ground unimaginable details likethis, quote, families received incorrect information suggesting their families members had survived when they had not. otherwise were notified on the

deaths of their family members by personnel untrained in delivering such painful news. while it was families who pushed for a thorough investigation, it also means that they have to relive the terror more than a year after the attack. moments ago, the mother of 10-year-old victim lexi rubio reacting to the findings. >> i hope that the failures in today and in local officials do what wasn't done that day, do right by the victims and survivors of robb elementary. terminations, criminal prosecutions, and our state and federal government enacts sensible gun laws because robb elementary began the day an 18-year-old was allowed to purchase an ar-15.

>> nbc's ryan reilly is following this story. also with us texas tribune reporter, former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade and msnbc senior legal law enforcement analyst cedric alexander. thanks to all of you for being with us. we just heard from attorney general merrick garland. this is an exhaustive report. what is the most critical part of it that adds to what we've all known about the failures on that day by law enforcement? >> yeah, i mean, i think it's a real leadership failure and just failure to follow what had been policy and sort of trangs trainings on this previously ever since columbine when you're supposed to immediately confront that shooter. there was not a sense of leadership. lack of leadership and lack of communication or miscommunications were just a major factor in this when you had so many different law enforcement agencies trying to deal with one another. in this instance, the police chief did not bring his radio.

he actually was using his phone for a lot of this. there was no sense of really who was in charge and someone basically failed to take over the scene when it was clear the approach wasn't working. no one really sort of stepped forward and did what needed to be done, which is confront that gunman as soon as humanly possible. as the attorney general said there, every second really does count in these scenarios, and the immediate thing has to be ending the threat and then dealing with everything else right after. the the most important thing is to stop that gunman from being able to enact any more horror at that moment or kill additional victims. that's really what the focus should be on. i think what the justice department hopes is this does set an example for other law enforcement agencies across the country. you can sort of think of it as a ferguson reporter, a baltimore police department report that highlights some of these broader systematic issues to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again. while it's not necessarily focused on a criminal charges response, it's meant to send a

message, i think, to law enforcement across the country about what they need to do and get that message out to as many agencies as possible, chris. >> i think if there's a recurring theme that we've heard from families in just that brief press conference, barbara, it was, again, what about criminal prosecutions. they are hoping it will light a fire. that's one of the family members' words, light a fire under the district attorney. this federal review is separate from the criminal investigation obviously undertaken by texas rangers that is being handled by the local d.a. and you can't help but be struck by that pleading question, what more does she need. if there are going to be charges, barbara, why not yet? >> well, i think everybody was waiting to see this report come out first. this was the department of justice's efforts as you said, not to assign blame to individuals, but to learn from the opportunity to share with other law enforcement officers of how this went so profoundly

wrong, and it did. for 70 minutes they failed to do what every law enforcement agency is trained to do, which is to intervene immediately and stop the active shooter situation. they failed to do that. i think now that this report is done, that clears the way for local prosecutors to look into criminal charges, certainly i'm sure we will see civil lawsuits, but there is possibly ground for criminal charges here. we saw this happen with the school shooting in florida where there was a police officer who failed to. >> -- failed to enter and engage the shooter. in this situation, they all had an opportunity to take charge in this situation, and they failed to do so. there could be neglect of office charges brought against any of those three or anyone else who failed to do their duty that day. >> puja, your colleagues have said this shooting in uvalde

plunged your community into incalculable grief. i don't think there's anyone out there watching who doesn't understand that this is beyond the pale, it's something families think about every single day. is what we just heard at that press conference reflective of what this community has been waiting for, what these families have been hoping for? >> yeah, i think, you know, there's a combination of immense grief and just emotions that they're feeling as they're reading this report and also waiting for critical information for multiple years at this point. i think based on what we heard and based on our reporting, we know that some of their questions were answered in this report. they got additional details about what caused that extensive 77-minute delay, but many of them are still waiting for accountability. they want to see change in gun laws. many of them went to washington, d.c., and to austin to fight for

changes in legislation, which failed. and so they want to see that change, and they want to see criminal prosecutions against some of those officers who were on the ground waiting for more than an hour to enter the classroom. >> cedric, there is absolutely two parts of this, right? the first part being everyone hopes that all this work, all this investigative work leads other police departments to take a look, change the ways potentially that they may respond, i think, in some cases we have already seen responses changed to mass shootings, but then there's the second part of this, which is police accountability, and i think we heard one of the speakers today say they want the names, that the problem among some in the community is they don't want to believe that the contributing factor here was people that they grew up with, and then another family member who said this, take a listen.

>> i don't understand why they are allowed privacy. my child, their children, they are named in this report because they are dead. everybody should have been named. >> should everybody have been named? and what is your thought about accountability including criminal prosecution? cedric. >> are you speaking to me? >> yeah. >> good afternoon, chris, yeah there has to be full accountability. i think what we've heard a lot of repeatedly over and over again, the abject failure that took place here on may 24th of 2022. it is -- you can't even find words. i've been in and out of law enforcement over 40 years of my career, and never have i can recollect along with others that are friends of mine or former

colleague, never can we recollect such incident that this occurs where officers don't go in. if you look at that video that's on the screen right now, the number of officers that are equipped with shields, helmets, long rifles failed, just simply failed to show courage because none was shown here, and these kids were being killed, mutilated down the hall from them. and thank god for the u.s. border patrol. yes, there should be accountability. and these parents and those friends and those survivors in that community are still traumatized and will be for a very long time. i will tell you and i think we also have to keep in mind too here, chris, is that on that particular day every agency that was in that building on that scene has to assume some type of responsibility in some way. yes, it was a failure of

leadership, but it also comes to a point too where you have to make a decision and thank god for the u.s. border patrol who came on that scene and put an end to that tragic event. but let me be clear about something, it's that these type of mass shootings that have occurred before robb elementary school and those that have occurred after, and we have seen a number them, and we also have seen police response where they have responded in a manner that we would consider to be heroic, and one also in which they did exactly what they were trained to do. so i want to make sure that we don't cast what we're seeing here as an aspersion across every police department in this country. but on that particular day in that particular community, that was horrific. it was a failure by every law enforcement agency there, the

state police owns it just as much as the local police. everyone who was there who failed to do more as those children died and take 77 minutes to respond is unspeakable. and that community is angry, and whatever it is that they want, they should have. if it's going to bring peace to them because no civil suit and no criminal charges are going to bring their children back. but they at least deserve to know everything that occurred and this case be as open and transparent as possible. >> so barbara, if there is going to be that kind of accountability, if there are going to be charges filed, would you expect something fairly quickly now that this report is out and presumably they've known much of this information, they've been building a case. it's not like they were waiting until today to start. >> yes, you know, but what happens quickly in the world of law enforcement and courts is

often slower than i think what people in the public want or demand. that's because i think it would be important in a case like this to interview all of the relevant people or the law enforcement agency that's actually conducting a criminal investigation. they would want to review video, things that perhaps they've not had access to before now. and so i know that these families have waited a very long time for justice and for accountability, but i wouldn't expect to see charges overnight. i would expect them in calendar '24, but i think it's going to be a matter of months, not days or weeks. >> daniel ruiz who survived the shooting that killed his cousin ellie and his mother shared this drawing of his showing his deep struggle with survivor's guilt. i don't know if you can read it, but it says i'm sorry i let you die. and i wonder in the time that you've spent with this community, how important today

was and i always hesitate to use the word heal because i don't know how you heal from -- truly, from the brutal violent death of a child, multiple children in a single community. how important was today for the community to move forward and how important from your conversations would some action be whether it's criminal charges, more firings to that healing process? >> you know, i think it's a little bit of a mixed bag. everyone has a different kind of process of healing and everyone had something different to say about what today meant to them. i think for everyone it was consequential that the department of justice took on doing this report and going to the lengths and the time to look into the tragedy with this level of depth. at the same time, many of them say they are really just waiting for some concrete action. you know, we heard from one of

the moms during the press conference who said that she wanted to see legislation. she wanted to see gun laws. others want to see like we were just talking about the officers named, officers removed from duty, so i think that while this was an important step, i think for many of them, it's just the beginning. many are also hoping that this could prompt the release of other investigations that are still yet to be released including one from the department of public safety, one that the city of uvalde has launched independently as well as the district attorney's office investigation. so they're hoping that this could spur the release of those. >> pooja, ryan reilly, cedric alexander and barbara mcquade, thank you very much on this important day. in 60 seconds, the latest on the defamation trial against former president trump in new york. lisa rubin just left the courtroom, and she'll join us with what e. jean carroll said on the stand today. hat e. jean d on the stand today

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it has been yet another wild day at donald trump's defamation damages trial, even with the former president hundreds of miles away at his mother-in-law's funeral in florida. e. jean carroll spent all morning on the witness stand cross examined by trump attorney alina habba who was trying to make the case that carroll's life has gotten better, not worse because of her legal battles with trump. habba argued that carroll has been on tv more often, seen her twitter following skyrocket, and been contacted by celebrities like bet midler and rob reiner. she pushed back insisting her reputation has suffered. while admittedly she has become more well-known, she's also, quote, hated by a lot more people. right now i'm joined by msnbc's lisa rubin, also with me,

kristin gibbons feden, msnbc legal analyst. give us a lay of the land, what happened in court today? >> reporter: let me start with what was happening right before we left. the plaintiff's expert, a woman named ashley humphreys has just finished testifying in her direct testimony. the upshot of that is she says e. jean carroll was reputationally harmed between 10 and $12 million just as a result of two statements that former president trump made in june 2019 when e. jean carroll first came forward with her allegations. she's careful to say she is not measuring what the emotional harm to e. jean carroll is worth nor is she trying to quantify any punitive damages. but if the jury is inclined to compensate e. jean carroll just for the harm to her reputation, in terms of do people trust her and is she hirable. she estimates that cost is 10 to $12 million. as you noted, earlier in the

morning, we saw the remainder of e. jean carroll's testimony, and it was a study in the theme of are you better off now than you were four years ago, alina habba is trying to make the case, that, yes, not only does carroll have celebrity friends now and lots of twitter followers, but that she even makes more money today than she did in 2018 or 0 2019. e. jean carroll pushed back forcefully and said maybe more people know who i am today but the number of people who hate me is considerably -- i am known as a liar, a whack job, a paid political operative, and none of those things are who i am. i'm an 80-year-old woman. i'm a journalist. i stuck up for the truth, chris. >> so stay with us, lisa, but chris i want to ask you what you think of e. jean carroll's response. >> i think that the defense strategy was great. you know, keep in mind, chris, this is an assessment of damages

case only. that means that the jury is not revisiting whether or not trump's statement suggesting that e. jean carroll was fabricating regarding the sexual assault -- the judge has already said that because the jury in may of 2023 has already made that finding, we're not going to revisit it. really the defense is really left to scrutinize how to try to reduce or mitigate any damages. and so what they've decided to do -- and i think it's a good strategy -- is to scrutinize her growing twitter following, as you mentioned, her enhanced status in celebrity circles to really suggest that any defamation damages that could exist are actually negligible because she's made more money. but i don't think they anticipated just how powerful e. jean carroll was going to respond to that. i mean, she basically said, yeah, of course i've got more followers. the numbers don't lie, but hey, my reputation and my status was stolen from me.

and i think her powerful testimony and then as it was followed by the expert, ashley humphreys, really, really set the stage for exactly what the plaintiffs are really trying to prove here. and that's that it doesn't matter how many people know you, if the knowledge and the notoriety is negative or adverse in any way, it is still detrimental to one's reputation and status. >> lisa, i was reading through our producer's ongoing log, and so correct me if i'm wrong with anything here, but at one point today, judge kaplan told alina habba come on, this is evidence 101. another, our producer in the courtroom said kaplan seemed incredulous at a question that she had asked. although she has also been a forceful defender of the former president's position, right, which is her job. we saw a lot of headlines late yesterday, overnight about the tension between her and the judge. talk about what you saw today.

>> i will say, chris, that judge kaplan in some respects is an equal opportunity grouch about enforcement of the evidence in court rules. he admonished e. jean carroll several times to stick to the question, answer it simply and directly. there was another evidentiary dispute later in the morning that alina habba won, and he looked at her and said, ms. habba, when you're right, you're right. but you are also correct to say that the brunt of the judge's frustration has fallen on alina habba and with good reason. alina habba has a lot of trouble asking questions according to the rules of evidence and civil procedure in federal courts. she wanted to know when e. jean carroll had an agent, and she said i hired my agent in 1982 or '3, and e. jean carroll had already testified she no longer has an agent. habba's next question was when did you fire your agent, and of course that assumes something not in evidence. e. jean carroll never said she fired an agent. she simply said she no longer

has an agent. those are rookie mistakes for someone in federal litigation practice. and you would expect the former president of the united states would have someone with greater facility and fluency in trial practice than alina habba has shown herself to say. those are the kind of mistakes that have caused judge kaplan to say oh, come on, this is evidence 101. >> lisa rubin, kristen gibbons feden, thank you so much. nikki haley, is she doing enough to secure the granite state next week? you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. k? you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium.

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at a time when her very candidacy seems to be at stake, nikki haley doesn't exactly have the kind of packed schedule you might expect from a candidate whose entire campaign could hinge on new hampshire. for weeks she stopped talking to audiences taking questions at least and gaggling with the press. she skipped tonight's planned debate and given a chance she doesn't really go after donald trump. >> it's not personal for me. i have no -- you know, people either want me to hate trump or love trump. that's not what it is. i just tell it on policy. i'm not going to talk about him personally. i don't care about that. i think politics is too personal, and i think that's why people are so frustrated right now. >> nbc's ali vitali is covering the haley campaign on the ground

in cold new hampshire. tim miller is the former communications director for jeb bush's 2016 campaign and an msnbc political analyst. as i understand it, haley did take questions from the audience. she did take questions from the press. is haley's campaign responding to critics who say she's not acting like somebody who's doing enough to win? >> reporter: they certainly are aware of those criticisms, especially as we look at a day like today that has several more events in the fashion that you would typically expect to see from a candidate that's barn storming in a state that they only have a week left to do as many things as they can to get voters on their side. we're watching nikki haley spend a lot of time with the governor here, chris sununu. he's someone who has really urged her to get out into the diners and the convenience stores like the one behind me that she just did a very short appearance at. we're now seeing a new mix of type of events where, yes, we're seeing her on stage for more consistent town hall events, and it's new this morning that they

brought back the idea that she's going to take questions from voters and now reporters. that's something that we have not seen her do in the calendar year of 2024, and look, one of the things that i asked her about is this new casting of the race that she's trying to do, making it a binary between herself and donald trump. if you're going to do that, you have to answer all types of questions about trump, whether or not you want to get personal about it or not, the one that i asked her about was what about if he gets indicted and remains the nominee. watch that exchange. >> do you think that even if he's convicted he's still qualified to be president? >> it's more than that. why don't you think about the american people? i trust the american people. do you think the american people are going to vote for someone who's been convicted. i'm going to beat him so we don't have to ever deal with are we going to elect a convicted felon. what i want to do is beat him so that's never an opportunity. >> reporter: and look, it's interesting, chris, because when nikki haley asks do you think that the american public will vote for someone who's been

convicted, if you look at iowa exit polling, although it's a very small sub sect of voters, the answer there was overwhelmingly yes. in an exit poll it showed that over 60% of iowa voters said they thought trump was still qualified to be president even if he had been convicted on any one of these 91 counts he's currently defending himself against in court. depends which voters you ask. i will say on the ground here in new hampshire, this is fertile ground for someone like nikki haley, and it's why we're watching her campaign try to go so much harder here because they know the demographic makeup of this state is a really food place for her to make a play that may not be steeped in the maga republican politics but is a little bit more big tent conservative, can bring in independents, can maybe bring in some democrats who maybe want to dabble in the republican politics of the day. >> tim, you know what it's like to run around new hampshire. you and i are doing it at the same time, as i recall, and was it maybe not quite as cold, but as you watch the strategy for

nikki haley and, look, we've talked ad nauseam about the difference between the conservative maga base and more moderates who are available presumably to vote for her in new hampshire, is she looking to you like someone who's in it to win it? >> not really, and it's less for me about the types of campaigning events that she does. i don't really care that much whether or not she's taking questions from ali. i mean, it's nice for her to take questions from ali, but i care more about her answers. where is the urgency of a message that might galvanize support? and she's up there saying, well, i don't love trump or hate trump. she sounds like a pundit, and so if she's trying to galvanize the undeclared voters that powered john kasich's second place finish last time, for example, then maybe a more passionate message about the state of our democracy or about the fact that, you know, we're just on the precipice of having this

rerun of the 2020 election. you know, let me see the emotion. let me see the fire from her. we're having this segment right now, and it's all process, process. she's not debating. you know, her schedule's lackadaisical. they need -- i'm putting my old coms director hat on. they need to make news. they need to do something to change the nature of this race. she lost by 32 points. she's acting like this is a close race and she can be on cruise control. they got to do something to change the trajectory of the race, and that's what i'm not seeing. >> one of the big conversations you're hearing is whe ump's vp going to be. i thought it was interesting, "politico" reported this. haley's critics haverivaly warned trump that were he to make her first in line to the presidency, he'd effectively be setting himself up for an interparty coup. matt gaetz says, quote, nikki haley as vp would be an establishment neocon fantasy and

a maga nightmare. let me present the other side of it. acknowledging we're jumping ahead. he gave her the job before, and we've seen him forgive people who he felt have wronged him in the past. is it out of the realm of possibility that she's running for vp or that he's thinking about her for vp? >> i think it's pretty unlikely he would pick her for vp just because trump -- >> well, we lost him. oh, you're back, you're back. go ahead, finish up. you got cut off, tim. >> sorry about that, chris. trump's been pretty good at tending to his core base. when i was at a turning point usa event, it was matt gaetz or maybe it was steve bannon during a speech suggested haley as vp, there was just mass booing. the maga base really dislikes

haley after this campaign. trump could find someone else, another woman in the more mainstream conservative lane that hasn't angered his base so much. i think it's unlikely they pick her. i think haley's answer to the vp question is another example of what i was talking about before. she's not appealing to anybody. by giving kind of this half, you know, lackadaisical answer, maybe i will, maybe i won't, it makes the maga people not trust her and the undeclared people not trust her. that is a big problem. she doesn't have a clear message that's animating anyone right now. >> tim miller, ali vitali, thank you both so much. coming up, the most powerful republican woman in the house faces a censure resolution. former d.c. police officer michael fanone has some thoughts about that and he'll join me next. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. watching reports" only on msnbc and now, t-mobile 5g internet for homes and businesses is here. also, here... here... here... here... even here.

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the fourth most powerful

republican in the house, elise stefanik is now facing a censure resolution. new york democratic congressman dan goldman introduced it. he argues she supported, charged and convicted january 6th insurrectionists who attacked the capitol. the resolution points to these comments that she made on "meet the press" just this past sunday. >> do you think that the people who stormed the capitol should be held responsible to the full extent of the law? >> i have concerns about the treatment of january 6th hostages. i have concerns. we have a role in congress of oversight over our treatments of prisoners. >> joining us now, michael fanone, retired d.c. police officer who, of course, was among those attacked on january 6th. i just want defendants referred to as hostages? >> it's outrageous, but it's not unexpected. elise stefanik is an insurrectionist. on january 6th she voted to overturn the results of a free and fair election based solely on the statements of donald

trump and a few of his crazy supporters. she used the authority of her position as an elected member of congress to legitimize baseless accusations with no evidence to support those claims, and her rhetoric, along with others inspired thousands of americans, her own party's supporters to attack the capitol and police officers who were there to protect her. >> you released a statement, in fact, saying many of the things you just said now in support of the censure resolution. do you think that this specific action, though, a censure really helps to hold her accountable? i think there was a time when a censure was something rare. it was widely seen as an important kind of moral rebuke. now just in the 118th congress, the house has voted to censure three different members.

i wonder if you think this risks looking more like a tit for tat political move than an honorable stance? >> well, i mean, i agree with you in part. you know, the idea of a censure would resonate with somebody who had honor or integrity. elise stefanik has none of the fundamental qualities of a true leader. she has no honor, no integrity, no courage. she's willing to sell out her country and her fellow countrymen in a personal quest for power. that being said, i've said many times now, i think this, you know, the war that we are waging against maga in this insurrectionist movement is an all hands on deck affair. and so everyone should be doing everything within their power, if you're a member of congress,

i guess that's censuring your fellow representatives, because there are still decent people in this country who find that rhetoric outrageous, and so, you know, i applaud the congressman's efforts to hold her accountable in the means that he has at his disposal. >> you know, nbc news has learned that, and this is exclusive reporting for my colleagues that former president trump is eyeing stefanik as his potential vice president. he has called her to folks he's talked to about his process a killer. stefanik had said in her "meet the press" interview in fact she would be honored to serve in any capacity in the trump administration. if there were to be a trump/stefanik administration, what do you think that means for the reality for january 6th, for the people who are in prison, the insurrectionists, and what does it mean -- what would it mean overall?

>> i try not to think about these things, but, i mean, i believe that first and foremost, i think day one, donald trump pardons all of those of his supporters that attacked the capitol on january 6th, 2021, to include those that attacked members of law enforcement, like myself. i think that the january 6th narrative gets flipped on its head. it will go down as a, you know, patriotic moment in american history in which trump and his supporters stormed the capitol and, you know, let it be known their grievance against our government. >> we only have a few seconds left, but i'm thinking about e.

jean carroll who has been on the stand, very different circumstance but has her own things to say about donald trump, and also what has happened to her as a result of saying these things about donald trump. do you ever have any regrets at all about becoming as public as you have in your criticism of donald trump and what happened on january 6th? >> none whatsoever. i mean, i have concerns. i mean, just the other day, in fact, yesterday, you know, i was working out at the gym and was confronted by a trump supporter who became enraged and threatened me. this was a very real reality for those of us who are out here and maybe don't have the means or the support apparatus to have full-time security, something i wouldn't have anyways, but i'm concerned about my family.

i'm worried that my daughters are going to come across a parent that knows who i am and knows the things that i've said about donald trump and that they would suffer as a result of that. >> michael fanone, who has been very much out there and he is supporting the censure of elise stefanik. thank you so much for being on the program. we appreciate you taking the time. >> yes, ma'am, thanks for having me. coming up, more on that damming reporting on the uvalde school shooting. details on the cascading failures by first responders. but first, you can watch the best parts of our show anytime on you tube. just go to msnbc.com/jansing. so stay close, more "chris jansing reports" right after this.

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