>> we were driving into the who, driving into that property-- property, it just hit me like a ton of bricks. how that was just the perfect place. >> the perfect place for a murder? >> perfect place for a murder. >> how do you live without her?

i mean, your parents are the wild. >> nobody expected a mother of three being murdered sleeping in her home. >> the usual suspects, her husband, they were going to a contentious divorce. >> you have a man who is there on the property when she is being murdered? >> yes, we looked intensely at him. >> we wanted to bring in her sister, we. >> was there jealousy and competition between the sisters? >> we just thought somebody is going to talk. >> that is one powerful secret. >> absolutely. >> that kind of had two out of nowhere. absolute shock. i mean, heartbroken. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ rockford, michigan. perched on the river just north

of grand rapids, is an outdoor paradise. but this piece is fragile, easily pairs by one troubling phone call. the kind of call that often begins a story like this. >> rene did not meet up with a sweat friend that she was supposed to go and grab a beer with. >> it was a saturday afternoon in the summer of 2006. >> so this friend called her dad and they said that she never does not show up, something is wrong. renee pagel father jumped in his car, and drove over to his father's house. >> what he found inside of her bedroom with something no parent should ever have to see. >> emergency, can i help you? >> my daughter, we just found her in bed and there is -- on her arms and she's all bloody. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> 41 year old renee pagel was

dead, her father tried to make sense of what he was seeing. >> she is on the bed? >> yes, i think she is gone. >> okay. we will be on the way. >> on the way was the detective of the county sheriff's department. >> i think it would shock to find this daughter laying in his bed. >> at first, the father wondered if it was a medical complication. he told authorities that rene was recovering from major surgery. the operation will tell you about me her. renee was a nurse, she loved nursing so much she decided to teach it. she noticed that one of her students, kaitlyn, had taken a particular interest in kidney disease. >> i had been diagnosed with kidney failure, and i just wanted to know as much as possible on it. >> renee learned that kaitlan's dad was on a waiting list for a new kidney. and out of the blue asked for his number.

>> are you thinking why? >> yes, why? why did she want to know this? and she said she wanted to see if she could be a possible match. >> what in the world were you thinking when she said that to you? ! >> total shock. i think i ran and called my dad on the bus. i went back to my school, and calling him, and letting him know. >> you probably have to pinch or self that somebody would do that? >> yes, a complete stranger to my dad! a complete stranger would offer a part of herself. for him. >> to save him? >> to save him. >> renee was a match, and the weekend before the surgery was her 41st birthday. her good friend, chris crandle, decided to throw renee a surprise party. >> we were going to meet up at the carnival at 1:00. and the plan was to walk up to the street to my house and cool off. she came, and everyone else had taken off and got up to my

house and gotten everything ready. and renee and i did a cherry pets spinning contest together and i kept her but. >> this must be a michigan thing? cherry spinning? >> yes! she walked in my front door, everyone is waiting in the other room. she came out, we totally surprised her! we totally got her and it was so fun. it was so fun. it was the day before she went in to the hospital. >> renee daughter sarah was seven years old at the time. >> you might not remember this but did you realize what a selfless thing your mom was doing by donating the kidney? >> i don't think i understood until i was a little bit older, but then when i did that something that's really meaningful. to realize that was the type of person that she was. >> renee's fans remember back then that sarah was aware that something scary was happening. >> sara had such a sense of heart, and renee was always

concerned about sarah. she was nervous about her mother going into the hospital, and she just sat on the couch and was quiet. >> laura beach was a childhood friend particularly close with renee's daughter. at the party, renee asked and laura to reassure sarah. >> she called me into the bedroom and she said and laura tell sarah that you will latch over to me when i have my surgery. and i said sarah, i promise you i will take care of your mommy. [crying] i could not keep that promise. [crying] >> i do remember that very well, you know, because i was really scared and i had no idea what was going on. and she just said, you, know no matter what happens, you have so many people that love you. >> so she was just preparing for anything that would happen

but wanted to to know that you are loved and taken care of? i am sorry, i know how hard this is. renee and her husband michael were separated, so sara and her younger siblings went to stay with their dad while brittani went in for surgery. four days later, rene went into recuperate. it was just two days after that when detective e.j. johnson was pulling up to her house. >> what happens when you arrive on the scene? >> i saw a lot of police cars, everybody was out here towards the road, and they had tapered off just the security scene so that way no one is in and out, they're going to wait for us detectives to get here. >> officers on the scene told him the deceased woman's name. did you know of renee? >> i did know of renee. we were just in the church praying for a member of our, church who was getting a kidney

transplant that she was donating. >> how did you realize the connection there? >> i was pretty shocked by it because the daughter of the gentlemen that was receiving that kidney was at my house at a youth activity, or during a swim party at my place. >> that is right, at this mall town where there were lots of connections, kaitlan, the nursing student was at detective johnson's house as he was responding to the call. what he saw told him right away that this was no complications from surgery. no medical calamity. this was murder! coming up! >> when i walked into the bedroom, i see renee laying sideways on the bad, and i was seeing blood all over. just a lot of lacerations and cuts. >> it is etched in my mind forever, i ran in the house, fell in a fetal position and just screamed. >> deep in shock. >> i felt adamant immediately someone had an almost hate for renee.

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before he ever set foot at the crime scene, detective ej johnson had been praying for renee pagel, he she had just donated a kidney for someone at his church. >> did you just think i need answers for this family? >> absolutely, yeah. >> and his call to 9-1-1, rene's father had mentioned that surgery as a possible explanation for her death. but he also reported seeing cuts on her arm. >> she had a laceration on her wrist, you said? >> not on her wrist, on the upper part of her arm. >> when i got up there i was just told that the father thought it was a potential suicide. but she did have a major surgery. but what happened was, one of the deputies took a photograph of her. so i looked at the photograph and saw numerous wounds on

renee, so i knew it was more like a suicide than a complication. >> the detective went in to see it with his own eyes. renee had been stabbed more than once. >> when i walked into the bedroom, i see renee laying sideways on the bed. and i was seeing blood all over the betting. then i started to look at her arms, and on her arm, face, and just a lot of lacerations and cuts. >> was it exceptionally horrific? >> absolutely, it was one of those things that i probably mentioned was pretty extreme when it comes to the stabbing. >> as where it's spread among renee's friends they were in disbelief. renee pagel was a respected nurse, a passionate teacher, a generous friend. just a week earlier, chris had thrown her the surprise party. >> etched in my mind forever, laura called me and she said her words were renee is that.

and i can tell you, my mother ran out of the house, fell in the front yard on the fetal position and just screamed. >> complete shock, to see it on the news and see her picture. i had seen her just before she left the hospital. and three days later? we find out, shocking. >> her student, kaitlyn, could only think of renee's generosity. it's what everyone remembers. >> it sounds to me she just loved everyone? >> and now, people say this when someone dies. they were a saint. she gave, and gave, and the stories that have come out about how she went above and beyond to show kindness and grace? i just often say she was jesus in the skin.

what she perfect? no. but she was so generous. >> childhood friend, laura beach, remembers renee's firm commitment to her christian faith. >> religion was a very firm part of her life. her relationship with god. it was in her dna for sure. >> she was leaving for africa on a mission trip, and when a renee left, her mom started sobbing, and she said i don't know where she gets this from. i do not know where she gets this from. >> joy met renee in college. >> they won, they could states. first words out of her mouth is i cannot get, way to get married, i cannot wait to get. kids >> really, on the first day? >> she thought -- and i was like let's get through nursing school. first >> one thing at a time! >> we clicked, i talked or every day. we drove back and forth for school. we studied, we spent a lot of time together.

>> detective johnson already knew that renee was a well liked person. now, he needed to put his investigative hat on to figure out who would want her dead. he took a closer look at the crime scene. >> what are you noticing right away as far as things that are obvious? >> it was a brutal murder scene. there was blood on the walls, blood on the left, lead on the ceiling. one of the other things i noticed was a jewelry box, with jewelry still in it. i noticed some money on the counter, or one of her dressers. and it it was not missing. so right away i'm thinking, it did not appear to be a robbery. >> did it look to you that renee had fought back at? all >> looking at renee i could see defensive wounds on her hand. specifically one defensive wound that went through her hand. when you delve more into what you could see on her heel of her foot was a large laceration that she was kicking, and she

was pushing away from the suspect. >> the coroner's report said she has been stabbed more than 50 times. someone wanted to make sure that renee was dead. this looks personal, the fact that there was that many stab wounds? >> i felt almost immediately that someone had an absolute hate for renee. a rage built up. these stab ones were from someone, in my opinion, that really had a deep paid for her. >> but who? the question what occupied the investigators and her friends for a lot longer than anyone could have imagined! coming up! investigators start with renee 's soon to be ex-husband. >> she was a worker, she was the breadwinner. and he stayed home. and i know there was a little bit of tension there. >> where was he the night of the crime? >> his alibi was not exactly rock-solid? >> no, i mean, you're sleeping in the front room with your kids and your mom is in the back bedroom. that is not an alibi. >> when dateline continues!

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♪ ♪ ♪ the investigation into renee pagel's murder was only hours old when the news had to be broken to her then seven year old daughter sarah, and sarah's two siblings, joel and hannah. . the how do you remember what happening? and do you remember what you are told? >> yes, i was at my friends nancy's house, and my dad's sister's house and we were just told right there in the living room that she passed away. >> it life stop in that moment? >> it is definitely something that you did not forget. that moment, i do not think i will ever forget. >> sarah so she is not even sure when she learned her mother died. the adults around her shielded her from the details.

>> we did not realize the situation until we were, until i was at least 13 or 14. so it wasn't something that was the sense that she passed, we were dealing with that. at least in my eyes that was not something that i comprehend it. >> young sarah did not understand the circumstances of her mother's death. just like she knew little about her parents pending divorce. rene and mike pagel have been separated a year before she died. >> we wear very sheltered from that, i do not have any bad memories of them when she was together. i did not understand what was going on at that point either, so i never felt like they did not still love us, and they did not still care about each other, either. >> so they were doing good co-parenting? >> yes, everything always felt so civil. >> her mom worked long hours nursing and teaching, so sarah says her dad was more the at home parent. >> we all lived on the farm together. i would wake up at six in the morning with my dad, and we

would go and take care of everything on the farm. >> you would sometimes call him the disney dad? >> yes, i would really like to go on trips all the time. we would go to -- flags. he was a good dad. >> he loved those kids. i can still hearing him calling sarah and hannah his little princess. he always referred to them as princess, princess. he loved those children. he totally loved those kids. >> michael's love for his kids was obvious, and at the beginning at least, so was the love between michael and renee. what made them a good couple? >> they both had a very strong faith. he too wanted to start a family. they just seems like they were meant to be. >> the perfect match? >> the perfect match. >> like many marriages it was not perfect for a long, and friends say they saw cracks of resentment appear. >> she was the worker, she was the bread runner.

and he had backed off a little bit on his full-time work and he stayed home and was able to play with the kids. and i know that there was a little bit of tension there. >> i assumed the pressure of three small children and renee was not only working full-time, she was working to extra part-time job. so i assumed, you know, the pressure of life. no big deal. they will get past it. >> but they did not. and a few months shy of their tenth anniversary, michael had moved out. as a divorced details were worked out, the children split their time between two parents. >> where you at that point going back and forth against, between houses? and if you ask why are we not all under one roof? >> i guess that is something that i never really asked, specifically. it was just having two houses. >> the night that renee died,

michael had all three kids with him at his house not too far away. his mom was staying with them to help out. the detectives headed over to talk with michael right away. >> we knock on the door and michael's mother, patricia pagel answers the door. we ask is michael around? she says no, he is at a meeting. he gave us half an hour, 45 minutes he would be back at home. >> detectives did not say anything to her about renee. instead, they wanted patricia to tell them about the night before. >> she said that they had the kids that night, all three of them. they were just having a bonfire, hanging out, just doing the normal family stuff. during the evening, the kids were sleeping in the front room having a fortnight, or a pillow night or something like this where they were all sleeping in the front room. where she says that michael slapped with them. >> patricia told the detectives she were called waking up in the middle of the night. >> she remembers waking up in the middle of the night and sees michael sleeping in the

living room. and i said do you remember any other activity or sounds going on? and she said yes, she remembered the door sometime during the night opening and closing, and she said maybe it was for the dog. >> his alibi was not necessarily rock-solid? >> no, i mean, you're sleeping in the front room with your kids and your mom is in the back bedroom? that is not an alibi. i mean, who knows, you could move around. but you'll never even know that she sleepy, she's elderly. the kids are young. there's plenty of opportunities to leave. >> while they were talking to his mother, michael returned home. detective johnson broke the news to him that rene was dead. but because it was a murder investigation, he did not reveal any details. >> i'm not sure if it was from the surgery, or what was going on. any to talk to you. >> did you tell him that being just purposely a little cagey? >> yes. >> because you know it wasn't from the surgery? >> yes, i knew that. >> after a brief conversation, police hurried back to the crime scene. for now, there was work to do

there and a another man to talk to. someone close to the victim. and someone who was at rene's house that night! coming up! you found yourself in the center of a murder investigation? >> yes. >> questions for rene's tenant, mike. >> if you look at mike's alibi, it's pretty weak. >> it is pretty weak. there's nothing accounting for him, and there's nothing that says he did not go next door and do this to renee. >> he's the only one on the property, if we went at him pretty hard. >> when dateline continues!! before you decide... with the freestyle libre 3 system... know your glucose and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. now the world's smallest and thinnest sensor... sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone. manage your diabetes with more confidence, and lower your a1c. the number one cgm prescribed in the us.

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blanketing much of the country. the weakening weather system has been blamed for nearly 60 deaths, with treacherous road conditions. up to five feet, causing

life-threatening conditions. sports illustrated magazine may soon disappear from the stands, the publishers laying off almost the entire staff due to financial troubles. in a statement, the owners said that they are confident the brand would survive after the shake-up. now back to dateline. o dateline ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ after talking to you renee pagel soon to be ex-husband, thompson headed back to the home where she had been brutally stabbed. the property was still being searched for clues and evidence. there was a curious object discovered by deputies outside, and flashlight found in the grass behind the house. detective bill marks says investigators have a hunch it was left by whoever killed rene. >> why are you convinced, that the killer dropped the

flashlight? >> the flashlight was clean, it was not dirty, there were no signs that it had been outside for a long time. we were pretty convinced that whoever had it had recently left at their. it wasn't taller grass, in a field, place where had it been dropped before it would have been sun faded, or rained on, we did not find that. >> they were proved right, but for now there was somebody they needed to talk to. rene had a tenant, mike decker. he rented an apartment above the horse farm. >> where was he when the murder happened? >> he was at home. >> 30 or so yards away from rene's home. >> unattached from the house, no windows in the apartment, just a door with a window facing towards the rear. he said he was home all night, hanging out, did not hear or see anything. >> mike decker said he had no idea what happened. at this stage of the investigation everyone was a

potential suspect. >> you are on the property when this happened, so we will be looking at you, we will be talking to you, and he was getting a little testy, and probably frustrated. >> did you think anything seemed off with mike at all. some of rene's friends describe him as somewhat odd. >> he was honored technically he was living above horse stalls it's technically an apartment but he is a grown man he did not really have a job no relationships, that we are aware of. >> it seems, if you look at mike decker's alibi it is pretty weak. >> his alibi is pretty weak, there is nothing accounting for him, nothing that says he did not go next door and do this. >> doctor agree to give his dna and fingerprints, and agreed to a search. they took his computer and three knives for testing. but as they spoke to family and friends and renee's circle,

rene's sister thought that decker was interested in rene. >> talk from rachel, she insinuated that they might have been involved with one another. >> friends also mentioned that he was having financial troubles. >> there was talk from choice that decker was not paying his rent on time, or that he was late. >> when they heard all that, investigators are some to come down to the station for a more detailed interview. >> it's one of the things that broke us wide open with him, and that you have got to start flipping the pages. this is not the reason why he would, or would not do it, we want to look at it all. >> you found yourself in the center of a murder investigation. >> yes, not fine, especially when things were not going very well in your life to begin with. >> was it a time in your life, where you are a little down on your luck? >> i was downsized out of a job, and then this happened a few

weeks later. it added a whole lot of chaos to life, to my personal life. >> a personal life, that was being examined in a four hour interrogation. >> what all do you talk about in four hours? >> reminds me of the tv, good cop bad cop scenario tapes. you know, just verifying my story. some of those accusations were false about me, they wanted to thoroughly question me about that. >> like the romantic connection? >> those kinds of things, were so untrue. >> one of the rumors was that brene turned him down. >> one of the friends said that you had asked renee out for pizza, and that she did not want to go, and perhaps there was something more. >> no, nothing like that, nothing. >> so it never happened. >> there was a time, maybe a month before she was murdered, where she was having a stressful time.

have a pizza pizza, let's go out there, let's take because as i would do for someone going through a hard time. >> an offer that rene never took him upon, he says. investigators also wanted to know about his financial woes, and if they caused any issues with his landlord renee. >> i was struggling, i was unemployed, it was tough, working odd jobs. i was not always paying full rant, on time, but i was up to date with her at that moment. >> did rene ever get frustrated with you? >> that i don't know. i am sure that she did, but she also knew the circumstance i was in, and we communicated. >> at the crime scene, the detectives noticed that there was no forced entry. another reason to look at mike decker. he was >> familiar with the home, the kids, the layout. i believe he even had a key to

the home. >> decker said it was true, but it was all above board. >> sometimes you need someone to watch your kids, especially after mike moved out, i would babysit. >> renee told our friend that sometimes he would walk into the house without permission, and that got her upset. >> that never happened. >> kelly -- and assistant prosecutor for kent county got involved in the investigation early on. she thought that decker and his denials should be thoroughly investigated. >> because he is the only one on the property. at the time of the incident, we had heard from one or more witnesses that he had asked renee out for dinner, may have gone under pizza hut with her out one time. there were inconsistencies on that, you cannot ignore it. we went at, him we went at him pretty hard. >> coming up.

>> she just would say that i just don't get good vibes for him. >> stay clear of him. >> that blood between renee and her brother in law. >> he was supposed to be the best man in their wedding, and he backed. out >> there was a scratch on his arm that we documented. it jumped out, we asked for an explanation. >> what do you think of beau at this time? >> was very suspicious of him. >> when dateline continues. >> when dateline continues

♪ ♪ ♪ investigators were suspicious of rene's tenet mike decker. >> police took three of your knives, a fall body photo, your computer to search, a bugle swab, footprints, and they searched your car. this is a lot. >> yes. >> you are now a person of interest. >> yes. >> how are you handling this? >> i was labeled as a person of interest, sure, but i had nothing to hide. i cooperated as best i can with them. >> mike answer their questions

for hours, and then, went over it all again hooked up to a polygraph machine two days later. >> did they put you through the wringer? >> they did their job, i mean the polygraph test was not fine. >> did the police straight-up askew did you kill rene. ? >> in the polygraph. >> what did you tell them? >> no i did not. >> he passed the lie detector test, the more they looked, the less they found. the rumors about the romantic connection were not true. >> we found zero to connect him to that murder. we found no motive. no reason why he would be involved in this. >> it appeared that he and renee got along fine. she liked mike a lot. he kept to himself, he was an excellent tenant, a nice guy. >> in fact rene seemed to get along with everybody, so it was unusual, alarming even.

-- another man, who friends said renee did not get along with. she basically >> told me that she did not like him. it was not like her to say that she did not like another human being, it was very out of character for her. >> the man was her brother in law beau pagel. >> had beau ever done anything to rene of concern? >> she would just say that she just does not get good vibes from him. >> i remember at her wedding reception she, told me beau was going to be there and just make sure you stay clear of him. >> renee told people that she felt very uncomfortable around beau. >> we heard a lot of that, he did not like her. which was another reason to be suspicious of him. he was supposed to be the best man at the writing, and he backed out, according to the people that we talk, to family members. so, there was some bad blood there. when they were married, bowed

was upset, biotin not approve of rene. called off his relationship with michael. >> grenada now montagne thing to do with bow, she was afraid of her daughters ever being alone with beau. she did not want her daughters to ever be along with him. >> friends say that animosity got so bad, that when beau's wife unexpectedly died, renee jumped to a dark conclusion. >> after she passed away, renee said, i think beau killed her. i think beau poisoned her. >> she said that to you? >> she said that to me. >> that shirt got the attention of the detectives, who drove out to talk to him. >> what was his demeanor like? >> he was surprised that we were there, but he wants to talk to us, he kind of gives us the same statement that he did not like rene, that she was not

right for mike. at that point we wanted his alibi, where were you out, what were you doing at the time of rene's death. >> what was his alibi? >> he is a trucker. he was on the road, he comes home, then in the morning he went kayaking with his daughter. >> so said he was home in saginaw, just two hours away from the crime scene in grand rapids. detectives thought that was plenty of time to make a round trip in the night. >> what does your gut tell you while talking to bow? >> i thought he was a little odd, but, again, he was cooperative and willing to talk to us. we did ask him when he was in grand rapids, because when i was walking around his car i saw a grand rapids newspaper. i saw the date. i asked him when the last time he was there. >> he told them that he had been in grand rapids recently, but not on the night of the murder. he pulled up his phone records to track his movements, but -- >> there was no activity, so

that did not answer what we were looking for. he still could have been over in grand rapids, and not using his phone. >> he could've left it at home. >> yes. >> this is another alibi that is not rock solid. >> before leaving beau, detective johnson noticed something else, something suspicious. >> there was a scratch on his arm that we documented, it was just something that we asked for an explanation for. >> bo said his dog head scratched him. >> rene suspicion that beau had poisoned his wife. the saginaw detectives confirmed that her death was natural, so rene's speculation was off base. >> there was never any proof of that, no. >> but still. >> what are you thinking about beau at this time? >> were you thinking it's a possibility that beau killed rene? i >> think it was a strong

possibility that we needed to investigate him so that we could eliminates. >> sharing stories about beau, was renée's sister, as they spoke to the sister more and more it would take the investigation in a different direction all together. >> coming up. >> she was so deeply wounded, and so hurt. rene's sister, and rene's husband. these two were in constant communication. >> i was suspicious of that, they seemed pretty close. >> how close or? they >> did anyone think there was a possibility -- >> of her having an affair? absolutely. >> just came right out and asked, or did you do it? >> when dateline continues. n dateline continues

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we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ seven-year-old sarah pagel knew nothing about the murder

investigation swirling about her mother's death. but, she always knew this. >> i guess i never doubted that she loved me, and that is very important. i never doubted either of my parents loved me. >> as a young child, she felt cherished and protected by the only parent she had left, her dad. she said she also felt loved by her mother's family. >> when it came to the mom side of the family, who did you mostly spend time with? with >> her sister and her dad. >> michelle? >> yes michelle, i am very close with my aunt michelle. we have a great relationship i think. i don't know what i would do without her honestly. >> and michelle was renee's older sister, the dynamic between the two had always been complicated. >> michelle loved the kids, she was always a part of christmas is, and i know she went over to renee's a lot, because she did have a good relationship with the kids.

but they never did anything just as sisters. they would never go out to the eat, or go shopping, or things that maybe sisters where do. >> laura knew the two sisters since childhood. >> they were so close in age that michele would have some friends, maybe they would come over, rene would join in, and those friends would become brittani's friends. then, michelle would be left out, i think there was jealousy, and always that competition between the sisters. >> as investigators looked into rene's murder, a more recent story took their attention. they found out in rene's divorce, michelle had sided with michael. they asked her about it. >> they she was blunt about the relationship. it's not like she was trying to sugarcoat anything because her sister had died. she said that there were issues and the majority of the problems were from renee. whether it was not being patient from, like expecting

too much from mike. >> her sister has just been murdered, and now she is going into details like that? >> it does seem like there was a -- connection between the two. >> but there was more. it came to light that during the divorce renee's husband michael, and michelle talk to each other on the phone a lot, sometimes eight hours a day. >> it is pretty shocking how much those two talked. >> they were in constant communication? >> yes, i was suspicious of that. you know, a lot of communication, they seemed pretty close. >> rene was not at all happy with her sisters close contact with her ex to be. >> she was so deeply wounded, so hurt, so betrayed by her sister. >> did anyone think of there was a possibility -- >> of her having an affair? absolutely. yes she thought that they had had an affair. >> yes, that was her perception,

it took a lot of convincing for me to tell her, noel, i truly do not believe they are having an affair. >> we asked michelle, we just said hey are you having an affair with michael. she said absolutely not. >> the rift between the two sisters was deep, a barber their mother, she urged her daughters to make peace. on the day of her kidney surgery she extended an olive branch to michelle. >> the day i drove her to the hospital, she wrote a beautiful letter to her sister basically saying that i want to bury the hatchet, you are my sister, let bygones be bygones. everyone i really want a relationship with. you >> laura remembers the first question in the recovery room. >> i was there when she woke up from the kidney surgery, first thing she said was did michele calm? >> and i said no. and just tears, ran down her

cheeks. >> that is heartbreaking. heartbreaking for sure, but to homicide investigators it was something else. i also asked michelle, did you have anything to do with renee's death, did you do it? again, she denied having any part of that. so i just came out and bluntly asked her. >> you interviewed her multiple times? >> yes. >> hopes of any reconciliation between the sisters appeared to die with renee. her murder also had a profound effect on sarah, and her siblings, who were children and hired a difficult time processing the magnitude of their loss. >> trying to live without her, that was just something, i was so young i did not understand. i did not understand the depths of it. at the same time, it was something something that -- >> do you remember what you missed about her the most, when she was gone? >> i mean, everything really.

your parents are your world. so losing wine, a yard, it was very difficult. i guess just her being there, was what i missed the most. >> just tucking away, and making a breakfast, the little things. >> just as sara had been in the dark about her parents divorce, she had no idea about the rumors of an affair between her dad and aunt michelle. investigators trying to solve a murder were very interested in those details. after checking it out, they quickly concluded that the rumors were baseless. there was no romantic relationship. >> there was nothing in the communications that we had, that indicated it was a romantic relationship. more like a friend relationship. in the end, michelle wanted to stay close to him so she could stay close to the children. >> still, they had been hearing troubling stories about michael and a pending divorce. friends said it started with

renee being blindsided. she was served with divorce papers, in the middle of teaching. >> in her classroom? >> in her classroom. >> she actually thought? >> she was getting flowers, yes. >> because it was around valentine's day? >> yes. how side. >> she said, you know, he had an opportunity to have it served to me after school, or at a different time. but, no, he did it right when i was teaching with my class. he knew how important they were to me, and he could just embarrass me. >> it went downhill from there. chris crandle michael changed as they hammered out the divorce. >> he would just play mind games, tell her tell her that it is your fault you don't hear what we were gonna do. >> for what reason?

>> i believe it was called gaslighting he was the master at it. he would make her feel like she was the crazy one. >> with the divorce looming, michael was seen as manipulative or cruel. was he capable of something much darker? >> coming up. he didn't want to work, he wanted to raise the kids, and he wanted rene to support him? >> yes. >> the divorce, bitter does not begin to describe it. >> he was told that he would have to pay rene alimony and child support, work harder. >> he was incensed, he was livid. livid. >> when dateline continues x and it's ready to go our cost for shipping, were cut in half just like that go to shipstation/tv and get 2 months free

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in a different light, an opportunity to cash and and keep the big house he convinced rene to buy. >> i feel like he had divorced already in the works, before they bought the house he was hopeful he got the house. >> everything i heard, he did not want to work, he wanted to raise the kids, and he wanted rene to support him. >> he specifically went back to school to get another degree so that he did not have to work. >> he had himself working part-time, and hug her working 2 to 3 jobs. so his plan i, believe with every fiber in my being, his plan was to go to court and to have the house, the kids, and $2,000 a month. he had worked to set himself up that way. >> he wanted alimony. >> oh, he wanted it all. and he believed that he had worked himself into that position. >> worked himself into that

position, rene believed, by not working. >> rene even said they base it on your last three years, when you look back he's gone part-timer has not worked in the last three years. it was all part of his plan. >> in the weeks leading up to renee's murder things were not going well from michael in court. >> this plan did not go as planned. >> no it sure did not. >> it got into the divorce courts. >> the judge told mike, in no uncertain terms, you are going to get a job, and you are going to work full-time, and renee will stay in the home. he was incensed, he was livid, that day rene came home from her court hearing, she told me that he she had never seen him so angry in her whole life. >> prosecutors investigating the case believed that this was a turning point. >> he had been told that he would have to pay rene alimony and child support, work harder,

and likely was not going to get full custody of the kids, or the house like he thought. he filed for divorce thinking that i'm such a great guy, i'm gonna get x y and z, and none of that turned out to be true. that infuriated him. >> just weeks after, that rene was in the hospital for the kidney surgery. i was there when >> she woke up, like i said she asked about michelle, then she said is there a sign on my door that says you cannot enter without permission? >> rene did not want michael anywhere near him. >> i said no, she said do it because he is going to try to kill me. he's going to put insulin in my iv, or something. so i quickly went to the nursing station and i said look rene wants something on my door, she is worried about her ex husband coming in and hurting her. they did, they went and put a sign right on her door that

said you cannot enter. and i stayed there. i stayed there with her, all monday. when i left it was the last time i saw her. >> as soon as she was discharged, she went to see her kids who are staying with their father. it did not go well. >> she called me that night, she was just freaked out. she was so agitated. >> rene said michael greeted her by tossing her youngest daughter at her. >> he said look she's so happy to see her, she held her hand out and said mike stop, and he threw hannah at her. she dropped her needs to catch her daughter. >> she was crying, he knew that i had just had surgery, and that i could not catch her, he just wants to hurt me. >> detectives wanted to talk to

michael pagel again. but he would not answer their questions. they were about to find another way exactly what he had been thinking about rene. >> coming up, hidden deep inside michaels house. >> we started going through these journals. >> the journals, are not so complimentary of rene. >> no not a bit. >> what would they reveal? >> in this journaling, you do mention your feelings about rene, correct? >> i am going to instruct you've not to answer that question. >> when dateline continues. when dateline continues it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist

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get over here kids. join the millions of people ttime for today's lesson. wow. -whoa. what are those? these are humans. they rely on something called the internet to survive. huh, powers out. [ gasp ] are they gonna to die? worse, they are gonna get bored. [ gasp ] wait look! they figured out a way to keep the internet on. yeah! -nature finds a way. [ grunt ] stay connected when the power goes out, with storm ready wifi from xfinity. ♪ ♪ ♪ and see migration in theaters now.

the women and renee's circleville, even her soon to be axe michael, was capable of killing her apparently renee thought the same thing. >> she went up to my mom and said mrs. -- , if i end up dead, you know that mike did it. >> stories like this shot michael pagel to the top of the suspect list. >> we were not totally focused on michael at first, but he was definitely in our crosshairs. >> in fact, detective johnson had been suspicious of michael from day one, when he and his partner went over to tell him that rene was dead. before he could say anything, he handed them a card for his divorce attorney. >> we start off saying we'd

like to talk to him about renee, and he is basically saying that my lawyers to said that i should not talk to the police. he eventually hired a criminal defense attorney to talk to detectives. police got a search warrant for his house, but did not find anything linking him to the murder. however, they found something else. during the search, a detective tapped on a beam, and it sounded hollow. it was. hidden inside, a number of hard drives with scant pages of michaels ratings. >> he had a lot of journal type things, with his feelings about rene. we started going through these journals. >> the journalists are not so complimentary of rene? >> no, not a bit. he had absolute hatred from renee. >> the birch is such a drain, i don't i'm not appreciative or anything, not expected for anything that i have done or

will do. i must eliminate with extreme prejudice. >> terminate that sounded ominous. they still had no physical evidence to link him to the crime, but they did have an alibi to pick apart. remember, it was just his mom saying he slept in the living room with the kids, the night of brittani's murder. >> how do you feel about his mom as his alibi? >> at first, i did not want to put everything on michael, so i am listening, i am trying to believer. but, also in the back of my mind i am thinking it is his mother, so i am not sure what she would say or do to protect her son. >> investigators saw a hole in the mom's story. she said candidly, i did hear the door open, the slider, at about 3 am. which was around when one rene was killed. she thought it was odd, couple of times she thought she heard the door at night.

>> well that is the window. a window of opportunity to commit the crime. they wanted to talk to michael's mother again, this time on the record. the prosecutors turned to a special legal tool used in michigan, called an investigative subpoena. >> this subpoena process allows us to, in secret, subpoena people by court order, bring them in, and you see courtroom and, they have to take the stand, take an oath. >> patricia pagel was served was one of those subpoenas, and they recorded her questioning. >> good afternoon ma'am i'm kelly -- with the prosecutors office. >> the prosecutor wanted to know if patricia would confirm under oath, that she heard the sliding door open and close that night. >> did you hear the dog being let out at all that night? >> no i did not. >> you hesitated, any reason? >> now, she is saying no, i down to remember saying that, i

know the dog went out, but i saw mike. you know she puts him there. >> did you hear anyone open and close the slider, once he went to bed? >> no, i did not. >> certainly you could hear the slider if it opened and closed, don't you think? >> you know, i cannot say right now, i do not know. >> she gave him no opportunity to not be there. >> finished with patricia, a few days later, prosecutors used another subpoena to call in michael for questioning through his lawyer michael said certain topics were off limits. the divorce, relationship with his wife. they did not agree with his terms, he would plead the fifth. >> and then you got nothing. >> i had nothing. i agreed, because what choice do i have. >> do you remember if you got up at night? >> no. >> no you didn't, or no you don't remember? >> no i did not. do >> you remember the children

woke up through the night? >> do you remember if your mom got up for any reason? >> no if. if you re-told me where you were not add ever on renee's home from the fourth or fifth that is correct no doubt about it. >> did you kill her? >> no. did you? >> did you conspire to kill her with anyone else? >> no >> did you have any knowledge prior to learning that she was dead other than the police? >> now. >> has anyone admitted to you that they killed her or killed her no. >> that was michael's demeanor in the questioning i don't think he ever struck me as, divorce or not, going above and beyond to try to help find who killed the mother of his wife

never forthcoming like pulling teeth to get anything out of him prosecutors brought michael back two weeks later is to ask about the journals discovered by police. >> regarding the journaling that is on those? >>ou be my instruction to mr. pagel. >> when he came in he was cooperative, but when he went to questions like really you wrote in journals that you hated, or that you wanted her out of your life. he would not answer. >> you confirmed, that there is journaling on one or more of these hard drives about yourself correct? >> yes. >> in this journaling you mentioned your feelings about rene correct? >> i am going to instruct you not to answer that question. i assert the fifth is what you should say. >> i assert the fifth. >> do we think we're going to get a confession from him? no. >> but we can lock him into a

story, and then we can work on pulling it apart if it is not true. how he acted, was suspicious, he acted like he was covering, like he was not comfortable with what he was saying. things like that. you cannot charge on suspicion. >> prosecutors did not have enough to charge michael pagel, and despite the red-hot suspicion in the case was growing ice-cold. montes turned into years. sarah grew up largely oblivious to the police investigation that centered on her dad. >> did you worry all these years, about the fact that your mom's killer was walking free? >> yeah, i think it is something that everyone would worry about. but it was something that as i got older, it really felt like there was not ever going to be an answer. >> but, rene's friends were determined that that would not happen. coming up, that orange

flashlight found in the grass is about to become a crucial new clue. >> this is the smoking flashlight. >> yes. >> and was someone finally ready to talk? he >> sent me a friend work for us, i sort of freaked out, he is reaching out to me again. when dateline continues. when dateline continues. when dateline continues. >> get credit every month to pay for healthy food... -hmm! utilities... and more over-the-counter items at no extra cost to you with unitedhealthcare. rsv is out there. for those 60 years and older protect against rsv with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. sarah says that growing up,

sarah says growing up, her family

her family didn't talk about the murder. her father, michael, did talk to them about dna. >> he talked about the good times and how we were similar. you know, our sense of humor and how i loved christmas, things like that. it never felt like it was hostile. it never felt like there was any sort of reason you should talk about her. it was never the atmosphere in our house. >> did you feel he did the best he could? raising it? >> yeah, i do. >> were there any long stones you would celebrate about your mom? >> her birthday. when we were younger, when we looked around here, we talked about it. it was flowers. we did that kind of stuff with her side of the family. we spent a lot of time with them going up. >> france remembered rene. get togethers and vigils. >> kindness, most wonderful person i ever met and will ever meet. >> next with the governor's race was a profound and growing feeling of anger.

>> my prayer is for him to come to a place of confession and repentance. >> there was zero, zero doubt in my mind. let me make that absolutely clear. zero doubt in my mind that mike did it. >> i was so angry because he had taken my best friend. yet, he got to be free and it was very hard. >> joyce carried a sense of guilt about the night when i was killed. >> she desperately wanted me to spend the night with her that night. so that i could go to an art bear with her that next day. i couldn't. i feel so terrible that i didn't pick up those signs. what he had killed me to, or, what i have deterred him? i don't know. it goes through my head all of the time. i don't know. >> as time went by without an

arrest, and his friends did everything they could to keep the case alive. >> including putting up posters, flyers. we had, remember rene knight, once a month. i met with media. >> you wanted justice for overnight and you are gonna stop until you got it. >> i did want justice for running. i didn't. that >> susan reported the story for years at the nbc affiliate and grand rapids. >> there was outrage when no one was arrested. everyone knew it was the husband, but they could make the case. from an's perspective, it was a huge story, of course. as years went on, you know, people's interest goes elsewhere, to some degree, in the news. her friends wouldn't let us forget. >> and they wouldn't let investigators forget either. detective johnson remembers hearing from chris like it was her job. >> chris crandall would call you and say, hey, what is going

on with the case? >> i just felt this passion inside of me to fight and people would say, chris, you need to stop. you just need to let the police handle it. a step back. >> but that, she couldn't do. instead, she set up a facebook page asking for tips to help find brittani's killer. >> a facebook page set, who killed -- she was her own private detective zealot to keep this case alive. >> in her mind, michael was the only suspect. she was being listened calling him out. >> yeah, hello, on the website we called him the only suspect. i did multiple interviews with local media, made it very clear. >> chris and other friends started mailing michael versus from the bible. chris said he didn't appreciate getting scripture through that mail. >> i mean, he could say, hey, you are harassing me. >> his family came against us. i was never afraid.

it's like, if you want to come after me for harassing you, by sending you scripture cards because you know what, but, i really might be the only person on this planet who really does care about where you spend a true -- attorney, truly. i am sending him scripture cards so that he will seek the truth. >> burns has eternity? >> right now, unless we can clean, he's going to hell. that's what my bible says. i believe it is true. >> michael pickle and the kids left referred, settling in second off, away from private eyes. scripture cards and news reports. >> i moved around a lot as a kid. it was always something -- it made it hard to find a home with that kind of thing, you know, out there. yeah, i took a while to really understand what they were doing. >> as a young teenager, sarah became aware of the internet campaign against her dad. >> what told it take on your? >> i mean, it was definitely

difficult. it prevented me from talking about my mom to my friends because i didn't want any questions and if anyone looked at me online or their parents did, it would be my dad's face there. wasn't stuff like that would come up, it was very hard. >> assistant prosecutor, kelly kekoskee, had never forgot this unsolved murder. >> this case, it never went away. i always wanted to work this case again. i knew they would come a time. my boss was ready to open one of the cold cases. he asked to decide which one. you know, i was wanted to solve this one. >> 12 years after her murder, investigators dusted off boxes full of evidence and reports. it was 2018 and bill marks was the lead detective. >> really trying to start from a fresh perspective. we wanted to start from the beginning at not focus on any certain person. we took a step back. we looked at every single

person who was involved in the case. everyone who was named. really try to work through each one of them individually and see if they could possibly be a suspect. >> anything with the evidence that trump told you that maybe had been messed? >> nothing initially. >> but then he spotted something that warranted another look. >> as we work through it, we found or flashlight that was that have been tested in the past and it wasn't. >> the orange flashlight investigators discovered behind the house a morning after the murder. it would take eagle eyed assistant prosecutor, dan helmer, to make it interesting connection. get this, in an old evidence photo of michael pedal taken at his house, he saw a very similar flashlight in the background. but this one was blue. >> you did a little investigating and it turns out that these flashlights have something in common. >> they came in a two pack that year. one of which was an orange and blue combination, which is the colors we had.

the batteries were from the same lot number. >> this is the smoking flashlight. >> yeah. what was important for us is that it puts mike there that night or around their. he had no reason to be at that home. no reason. >> it was an interesting piece of the puzzle. still, not enough for an arrest. their online post, chris was still asking, who killed when a? one day, out of the blow, someone wanted to talk to her on facebook. it was michael's brother. >> wow. >> he sent me a friendly request. i saw and i freaked out. i didn't respond to put, slept on it, the next day, he is reaching out to me again. >> could it be that beau had information about the murder of rene? after all -- coming up, beau just cracks this case wide open? >> yeah. i had to hold myself down. >> there was a break. there was a knife under the

big. >> that was one powerful secret he was keeping. >> absolutely. >> when dateline continues. hen dateline continues we're travelling all across america, talking to people about their hearts. how's the heart? -good. -you sure? i think so. how do you know? let me show you something. put two fingers right on those pads. look at that! that's your heart! that is pretty awesome. with kardiamobile, you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds, from anywhere. kardiamobile is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. this year make a resolution to take care of your heart. don't wait. get kardiamobile today for just $79

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that's a big one, people. hi, i'm jessica layton with

a look at the hours of the top stories right now. senator tim scott endorsed donald trump for president on friday night at a rally in new hampshire. tim scott, you may remember, first became senator in 2012 when he was appointed by then south carolina cup winner nikki haley, who will, of course, face off against trump in the new hampshire primary next tuesday. major new york stock indexes rose of that and what the s&p 500 closing on our record high. this comes as consumer confidence jumped to 29%, marking the largest two month increase in over 30 years. both hopeful signs for the u.s. economy. now, back to dateline. to dateline. more than a decade after more than a decade after renee pagel's murder, rene pickles murder, detectives

were taking another crack at her cold case. at the same time, her close friend, chris, got a message from michael's brother, beau. chris paton met the guy, but she knew he and renee never got along. and that beau had been looked at as a potential suspect. now, out of the blood, he wanted to talk. >> this is the. who says? >> hi, this is chris crandall. >> unbeknownst to bow, please ask chris to record the conversation. she sure did. right from the start, he made it clear he was talking about his mother. >> first of all, i want to apologize. you guys absolutely, one had percent right about mike and how he is. >> oh. >> he fooled us all. he's a liar. >> what did he say to you? >> well, he said michael starting to lose and. >> chris cut to the chase. >> i said, so why are you calling me? well, something needs to be done. and i said, well, i agree. you know what i believe.

>> do you believe he killed when a? >> i don't know. i don't know for certain. but i'll tell you this, i would not defend him now. >> both said his brother, michael, had turned on him. >> for whatever reason, it has drunk, warped mind, he thinks i am out to get him and he tells everybody this. and he carries a loaded gun on him all of the time. >> chris steer the conversation back to the information she needed. >> who do you think killed rene? >> i got no clue. to tell you the truth. i couldn't tell you. >> do you think mike did it? >> do i think mike didn't? >> yeah. >> i don't know. you know, i don't know. i don't. i don't think so. i don't think he would have the -- i don't think you would have the guts to do it. that's still a good question.

>> both sounded very much afraid of his brother. >> mike has gotta be stopped. i'm going to be his next victim. he's going to kill me. at some point. >> next back down? ball was all over the place. did he know something or not? >> expect him is a big statement. >> once investigators played the tape, they wanted to talk to him under oath. prosecutor sent him an investigative subpoena. >> at any time prior to the murder, let's start with that, did mike ever say or do anything to indicate that he wanted to kill her, wanted to hurt her? >> i don't think so. i don't -- i just -- >> do you remember that? >> yeah. i'm trying to think. i just don't talk in those conversations. >> what does that mean? >> i just talk about other stuff. >> body language wasn't saying

the same things that is not to say. >> it appeared as if he had more to talk about. >> prosecutors sent him home. two weeks later, asked him to come back. >> bill comes in for a second interview and just cracks this case wide open. like the grand canyon. >> yeah. i had to hold myself down, like, not get too excited. >> prosecutors granted but immunity in exchange for his testimony. this time, he had a story to tell. with an audio recorder rolling, he remembered a day back in august 2011, it was exactly five years after rene's murder. >> he had come to my moms and he -- >> and saginaw? >> and second of, yes. and he had said, let's go look for some big deer and get a six pack up snacks. which, he was referring to beer. >> a couple of beers in, michael started talking about his marriage to rene and how it had gone bad. they came to a bridge and

michael told bill to pull over. >> which is not out of the ordinary, because we want to put the stop on the bridge. he had a civil case or big or something. with him. and he opened up the case and there was like a regular t-shirt or something like that and he had wrapped and there was a knife in the rig. >> right then, holding the knife in his hand, both said that michael revealed what he had done. he said to me, this is how i finalized force. >> there is no doubt in those mind what he meant. he said it was clear michael had killed running. >> he started going on about, you, know that she had coming to her, but all she had to do was pay him what he was asking for as far as alimony or child support and give him the house and whatever -- whatever else he felt he was entitled to. that's all she had to do. and she wouldn't do it.

so, he said he finalized the divorce. >> that is one powerful secret he was keeping. >> absolutely. >> still, there was more to bose story. >> so that, we are arguing. i mean, this is just more than ready for, you know? and then, he takes the life that he throws the knife and the creek. >> once the murder weapon disappeared in the creek, both said his brother turned to him what [inaudible] >> his words were, i -- her up and if you tell anybody, i'm going to do it to you too. >> both said she went to see his mother, patricia, right away. >> i talk to my mom and i told my mom. >> same day? >> was the same day. i told her what he had told me. i told her, she says, just

don't do anything till after i'm gone. >> did she seem surprised? >> now. >> both explanation for stay quiet for so long was not just that it was rather, but then his mom had asked him to not say anything while she was alive. >> she knew about the murder? >> for sure. yeah. >> so, why was he finally telling the story? their mother had just died six months earlier. he had kept his word to her. now, said he wanted to get this big secret off of his trust. >> the truth just needs to come out and i need to get it off and our family needs to go on. >> the truth? investigators would have to cooperate bowls story, looking for evidence that was never meant to be found. >> coming up -- >> there's a knife when here. it was exactly as beau had described. >> that's unbelievable. >> was that murder weapon? >> we were confident we had the right one. >> could it lead to an arrest at last? >> i was absolutely shocked.

i mean, that is the last thing i thought i would hear. it really felt like it was out of the blue. >> when dateline continues. when dateline continues es more than clean. it actually protects skin by keeping it hydrated. so you're always ready for the unexpected. cetaphil. we do skin. you do you. you know that feeling of having to re-wash dishes that didn't get clean? i don't. platinum plus is cascade's best clean ever. with double the dawn and double the scrubbers, it removes the toughest grease and residue for an irresistible clean and shine. cascade platinum plus. dare to dish differently. with the majority of my patients with sensitivity i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum and enamel it relieves sensitivity helps restore gum health and rehardens enamel. i am a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> the infestation switch into high gear once michael pagel's brother both swore under oath that michael confessed to killing rene, and drop the weapon into a creek. investigators are supposed to draw a picture of the knife, and locate the spot. >> february 5th 2020. >> soon, bill marks and a dive team headed to saginaw to search. >> we found a lot of metal, a

lot of shards. >> day two? >> do we collected everything from car parts, to home stereos. >> so you won't back to a third day? >> just a few more passes. >> this was the end of the search? >> yes, i pulled the magnet toward me, and i got hung up on something very strong. one of the divers finally wrestled it out of the water. >> i still couldn't see it it was black, rusty, if there was a knife, it was exactly as beau said. >> that is unbelievable. you are about to go home, and called this off, and there it is. literally at the last minute. but not only, that it was rate only your nose. literally under your nose. >> probably in the area we were standing at some point. >> phil texted the picture of the knife to the prosecutors. >> i could not even describe what i was seeing, i was so charts. all i could do was show the boss a picture, and it was amazing.

it was entirely consistent from what we knew of the medical examiner's report was used. >> we were confident that we have the right wind, it matched the drawing a bow gave us, description was identical. >> now, they had enough for michael's arrest, after all of these ears detective johnson, now lieutenant johnson, wanted to be the wind to do it. >> we put a lot of time and effort into this, when the time comes to arrest him i want to be there. >> have a seat. >> i go to mike, i put my cuffs on him, and put him on the back of the car. i did take a nice picture of him prior to me leaving and sent it to you chris crandle. >> i see johnson's numbers show up on my phone, and i answered it, and he says, you know how they say guard is good, all the time, i said what tell me? he said, guess who i have in my back seat. i said you are kidding me.

he sent me a picture of him in his backseat. >> i remember, i was teaching, chris called me, and she said you will never guess who is in the back of e.j.'s car. and, i remember i just started crying. my teacher friends had really embraced me over the years, because they knew what i had gone through. >> you cannot describe how relieved you are to finally have this moment that you have been waiting for 13 14 years, of the man that's been out there walking free, that had killed his wife, the mother of his children. >> the news of michael severest had a different effect on his children. his daughter sarah was now 21 years old. >> you are not someone anymore, you are able to really process at this time. what is going through your mind? >> at first, i was absolutely

shocked. that is the last thing i thought i would hear, and it really felt out of the blue. it kind of hits you out of nowhere. it was, very hard to process that first, until i could really talk to him i felt like i had no idea what was going on. but -- yeah it was definitely very difficult. >> did you think, not my dad, go find the real killer, he or she is out there? >> of course, you never want your dad to be the one behind everything, and obviously i was thinking there has to be another way, there has to be something else, something is missing here. >> sara went to talk to her father in jail. >> what did he say to you? >> he just said everything is going to be okay, and we talked about what we needed to figure out. >> did you ask him, dad did you do this? >> no.

>> have you ever asked him that? >> no, i have never felt the need to. >> was there a part of you that felt for a moment, he did this, or i think he did this? >> i think, i thought, now that he is arrested, there is something there, if it goes to trial and found innocent then we can finally go on with our lives. >> but it would not turn out to be that simple. just when you think the story is over, it is not. the biggest bombshell of all drops in your lap. >> yes, yes. >> coming up. michael pagel speaks, and he has a whopper of a story. >> we agreed on $100,000 to murder renee. >> mike pegol says i did not kill my wife. >> do you have to investigate to be sure that the real killer is not walking around? >> absolutely.

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sarah pagel was bracing for a trial, her father accused of killing her mother. >> did you think my dad doesn't have the temperament to kill someone, or take my mother away from us? >> yes i absolutely thought. that >> one email, from michael's defense attorney changed all of that.

michael wanted a shortcut. >> he reached out to us, and so to his attorneys even before the preliminary hearing, would you be interested in making him an offer? that was a surprise also >> before responding to michael so tierney, prosecutors met with michael's children, they wanted to know how they felt about their father taking a plea rather than a painful trial. >> we did not want to make an offer, or even consider an offer, and if it wasn't for those kids we would not have made an offer. we would have tried him, and god willing he would've seen the truth and gotten without parole and died in prison. but the fact is he has three children that are more impacted than anybody. >> for sara it was the first time she had heard the evidence pointing to her mother's death. they explained the evidence, how they got it, they were definitely in a difficult situation. representing my mom, and justice for her, but also

looking at that we were the ones suffering because of my dad's actions. so, putting him in jail was doing good by my mom, but also hurt us immensely. but they wanted us to know that there was to difference michael pagel's at that time. >> he could be an amazing father to you, but be capable of something evil. how do you deal with that? it's just -- i have no words. >> it was difficult, i mean absolutely. i talk to him maybe an hour after the video, and yes it was a difficult conversation. >> did he apologize to you? >> yes, i mean, absolutely. >> what was the biggest question you have for him? >> i guess, why? >> what did he say?

>> i don't feel comfortable answering that, sorry. >> michael pleaded guilty to second degree murder, with a person in term of 25 to 50 years. at his plea hearing, he told his story. >> back in 2006 i was going through a divorce with my wife. and, it was going from bad to worse. i was losing more and more time with the kids, i was getting more and more contentious, and i was just at a breaking point. so in 2006, in the spring, i talked with my brother, it's okay to call him bo? okay i talked to bo. >> his confession took a sharp turn. >> what do you think the yards are getting away with killing?

>> he said better than half. at that point i made a bad decision. >> mike pagel pleads guilty, but says i did not kill my wife, my brother did. >> we are agreed on $100,000 for him to murder rene. >> it was quite a story, a bombshell dropped on to what was supposed to be a closed case. the only trouble, no one believed it. >> we went to court and we listened to him tell the story about how he hired his brother and his, brother was the one that actually killed rene. there was just a level of disbelief, and discussed, like come on, really? >> do you still have to investigate to be sure that the real killer is not walking around? >> absolutely. we spent weeks, and weeks, digging into the claims that he made, but we never found

anything, at all, that pointed toward bo being involved. >> bo denied being involved in any way, investigators claim that michael acted alone. >> it's pretty disgusting that he could not take accountability, man up and, tell us what you really do. it certainly will make life easier for those of us trying to move forward, and find forgiveness. if he could just bloody tell the truth. >> did you believe his story that his brother had helped him? >> it's just something i decided to remain neutral on. for sara, it is a lot to absorb, even with her father changing his story he admitted to wanting her mother dead, and is going to prison for her murder. >> how did you leave the conversation feeling, after you had spoken to your dad? it's a conversation that almost no one has with their parent. >> --

>> did you tell him, i will stand by you? >> i said i forgive him. >> because you still have a relationship with him right? >> how are you able to keep site intact? >> i think, he was always my died. i never saw that side of him, and even if -- something he did -- i mean everyone deserves to be forgiven, and it was something that he apologized, he sincerely felt, like, he knew he had made a mistake. he knew it was the worst thing he could have done to us, and for us, and he knew that, and he admitted that. but, that does not take away the fact that he is my dad. i think growing up with a single parent you really hang on to the one that you have, and i would not want to lose him for anything.

>> at his sentencing five months later, michael addressed his children. >> i ask god to forgive me, and give us all the strength to endure the consequences, sarah hannah -- loved you very much, she would be so proud to see how well her children had grown. >> sarah wrote a letter to the court. >> i just wanted to get across that he was not the person that was just involved in her death, he was someone that raised us, we are here because of him. it is a very difficult situation to understand to be in the middle of both sides, and i think it's something that only we could really understand. so, no one has passed judgment on that. >> the friends who fought so long and hard, still feel the loss of rene. >> a beautiful person was taken

from this world. >> when she died, i genuinely felt like a piece of me died as well. >> sarah says a committed effort by so many to solve the case is a testament to her mother's character. >> she had a beautiful personality that clearly speaks, i mean so many people care about her today. the efforts that her friends put in over the years, i kind of felt -- it was for her, it was for justice for her, and i understand that and appreciate that i think it speaks to the type of person she was. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ hello andrea canning in this is dateline they were a gorgeous couple. >> he felt happy just being with her. >> he was once