news anywhere. they are very popular. they have never, they still have yet to call the election for joe biden. they still have not accepted those results. so we are seeing that on a national scale, but we have also seen smaller scale efforts, local news has been decimated and continues to be. and where the local papers are no longer alive, what we are seeing is smaller efforts bipartisan political right-wing figures pop up in that respect. those folks have suggested they are more than willing to tout this line that the election was stolen. and that the future election might be as well. >> nbc's brandi -- it is so sobering every time we talk. thank goodness you are doing the job. we appreciate you a lot. that's going to do it for me on this edition of alex witt reports. i'll be back next saturday and sunday at -- msnbc prime weekend next. ime weekend next

♪ ♪ ♪ welcome to prime time weekend. i'm chris hayes. let's get right to the week's top stories. 83 point $3 million. that's a lot of money. that's how much donald trump has just been ordered to pay writer e. jean carroll for repeatedly defaming her after she accused him of sexual assault. the jury spent four days hearing about what donald trump to. and witnessing his ongoing contempt towards both the proceedings in front of them and towards e. jean carroll with their own eyes. carol's attorney had asked the jurors to reach a jury -- verdict that would stop him from further defaming the woman that he has been defaming and harassing for the past five years. today, after deliberating for less than three hours, the jury came through.

they awarded carroll seven point $3 million in emotional damages, $11 million in reputational damages, and a whopping $65 million in punitive damages, which is there, essentially, to stop him from doing what he's been doing. it was such a shocking and decisive verdict against the ex president, even fox news cover the decision in realtime, breaking the coverage complete with images of a triumphant carroll leaving the courtroom with her orders. trump, for his part, who's been trying to draw attention to himself throughout the trial, was, for this moment, and nowhere to be found. he linked out the backdoor while the jury was still deliberating and headed to the airport, responded to the verdict in characteristic fashion. ranting on social media from his plane. although, it should be said, the ex president did manage to refrain from defaming carroll in his response. so something got through, that is something he's been able to do following the first trial.

instead, he pledged to appeal, baselessly claimed presidential biden was somehow responsible for the civil case, and declared yet nothing to do with it. this is a private lawsuit, by e. jean carroll, that she filed in 2019. it was exactly that vitriol from trump that judge lewis kaplan was concerned about. when he issued these notable parting words to the jurors, who had just ruled against the ex president. quote, my advice to you is that you never disclose that you are on this jury. the implication there is clear as day. trump and his followers revel in menace, intimidation, sometimes violence. that will be weaponized against anyone perceived as his enemy. you will face harassment if people know that. notably, that jury did not even need to address the basic validity of carols claim, the thing that started all of this when she published a book in which she said that donald trump sexually assaulted her. in a manhattan dressing room back in the 1990s as judge

kaplan instructed the jury, that allegation, the core of this entire episode, was already determined to be true by another jury in trump's previous civil defamation trial last, gary jury that heard extensive evidence and came to the conclusion that he was civil we liable for sexually abusing her. donald trump showed up in court this morning and spent his time impotently puffing and puffing as carols attorneys made closing arguments to the jury. he stormed out of the room at one, point as the lawyer from carroll was describing him to the jurors who thinks, quote, the rules don't apply to him. that has an effect on the theme of this entire trial, if not donald trump's entire adult life. a man who above all else believes in his own impunity, or you might even say his own immunity, as he's already -- myriad other legal cases. this is a grown asked man who sincerely believes he's

entitled to get away with anything. he's furious at anyone trying to hold him to account for his actions. it's the same justification he -- where he boasted in crude and graphic terms about grabbing women by their genitals. >> you know, i'm automatically attracted -- i just start kissing them. it's like a magnet. just kiss, i don't even. wait and when you are a star, they let you do it. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the [bleep]. you can do anything. >> as a matter of, fact on trump is currently being held to account precisely because as the judge instructed the jury in graphic terms, he has already we've been found liable of doing too e. jean carroll precisely what he bragged about doing on that tape. i mean that literally, grabbing her. the purpose of this trial, then, was to get trump to stop lying about it and get him to stop defaming the woman he had sexually assaulted. to find $1 amount so large it would serve as enough of a gut punch that the man would end the cycle of repeatedly

defaming e. jean carroll, the woman he sexually assaulted, in the grossest and most bullying, massage, interstate and despicable manner possible. constantly, for five years trump has made this now 80-year-old woman's life a living hell. today, a jury determined he will be 83 point $3 million poorer for it. today's verdict is due in large part to the tenacity of e. jean carroll, that declared it, quote, a great victory for everyone who stands up when she's knocked down, and a huge defeat for everybody who has tried to keep a woman down. she went on to credit her making legal team for the win. you can see her leaving the courtroom with key members of that team after the verdict came down. the courthouse after the verdict. that is in e. jean carroll the middle with her lawyers, rodney kaplan, on the right of your screen, and shauna crowley. shauna crowley joins me live here. it's great to have you here. >> so great to be here. >> how are you feeling? >> i'm feeling good. >> you came into the studio beaming a smile that was

clearly -- coming from the deepest part of you. >> it's been a good day. >> i guess, first, did you anticipate this basically after the week that you had? >> it's really hard to predict what juries are going to do. i think we certainly anticipated that they would believe e. jean carroll's testimony, it was credible and moving. did we expect that the punitive damages award would be quite so high? i don't really know. the way that donald trump conducted himself throughout this case and then throughout this trial storming out of the courtroom and shaking his head saying things very loudly when he was sitting in the back. leaving the courtroom to repeatedly defame miss carroll while the trial was going on. the jury saw and heard all of those things. we expected there would be some award that would be high enough that they would then think maybe we should penalize him again and then stop doing this.

>> that was going to be my next question about his behavior here. you're not a psychologist, you just have to deal with him. did you have a tactical posture, honestly, about what to do about this? i can imagine, as a litigator, as a prosecutor, you've ever faced something like this. have you? >> i haven't, no. >> people don't do this in courtrooms. they just don't. >> usually people who committed courtrooms for trials stay for the trial. they don't walk out furiously and come in and say things when the jury can hear them. i haven't encountered anything like this before. >> i guess the question becomes, like, to the extent there's any method to the madness i know that there isn't, it's a comet ability -- self regulate, what you do with it as attorneys and how you keep on track, was there a strategy for that? >> our strategy was to remember that we were in a court of law and that we were trying this case to the jury, and in front of a judge. i think donald trump's strategy

was much bigger than that. he wasn't as concerned with what was happening in a court of law and he was much more concerned with what was happening with his followers and fan base and at his rallies. we just try to focus on what we were actually doing and not get too distracted by the antics going on outside. >> i want to show an image that one of our producers took a picture of this evening. i think we have it. i don't know if we do. this is outside trump tower here. 83.3 million, keep talking, loser. that was talked -- chalked outside the trump hotel there. i thought you would get a kick out of it. tell me about -- okay, what happens next year? his lawyer came out and said we have great grounds for appeal. lawyers always say that, they always say they will appeal. obviously, you can appeal under due process the same way you might in a criminal case. what is the next step? >> we have every expectation that they will appeal. we feel very good about our

arguments on appeal. we actually, as you said, there was a trial last year about the actual sexual assault and another defamation. and there are the jury not only found that he sexually assaulted her but also awarded e. jean carroll $5 million. that case is already on appeal. the money has been paid into the court. e moneonce, we hope, we win the appeal, that money will go to miss carroll. this case, likewise, will be appealed. we feel confident in our arguments and ultimately she will collect that judgment. >> this is a little minute shove, i want to get into it. there is always some sense that it's the roadrunner never falling, where it's like, is he going to have to pay up? my understanding, the procedure is sort of basically escrow, where you have to pony up the money into some account that sits there until the appeal is done. is that correct? that's >> basically correct. >> he's not going to be -- able unless he went on appeal, he will have to pay this money. >> you will have to pay at

least a big portion of this money before he even winds on appeal. it has to be there to be certain that it's going to be there when we win the appeal. and then certainly after the appeal, we hope we are victorious on appeal. he was -- he is going to have to pay it. >> can we talk about the pace of this? this starts in 2019. one of the things i was talking about on this program last night was about the cliché of the wheels of justice grinding slow but exceedingly fine. you've been a lawyer, you've worked in both criminal and civil contexts. i am awestruck by the endurance at some level. four years of your life, e. jean carroll. what is your conclusion about how long this takes to get this accountability? >> so, this case has been very long. but sort of for extraordinary reasons. e. jean carroll sued donald trump or something that he did while he was president, for defaming her while he was president. and because of that, he defended the case for many

years, basically saying, first, he got the department of justice to intervene on his behalf. that didn't work. and then he claimed, you can't sue me for something i did while i was president. then he claimed, well, i made those statements, but i was acting within the scope of my employment as president. >> it was my official duties to say, to lie and defame this woman who accused me of sexual assault. >> that took a while. it wound its way through the courts in new york, it took a detour to d.c. for a while, and then it came back, the other case actually move extremely quickly. >> because, just to be clear, people pointed out this, the first thing is e. jean carroll publishes the, book president defames her. she sees him. she says, i want to go into a court and prove this allegation i'm telling the truth and you are defaming me when you say i'm lying. he used all the powers of the presidency to protect himself. and then he gets out of the white house, and what happens? >> a few days before his deposition in that case, in october of 2022, he defames her

again. he says, basically the same thing. and by that time, new york had actually passed a law that allowed survivors of sexual assaults that had happened a long time ago to sue, it opened a one-year window where they could do that. so e. jean filed another lawsuit in 2020, to suing him both for the underlying sexual assault and his defamation in october of 2022. that case was filed november, thanksgiving, date or the day after, of 2022. and it went to trial last may. >> this one comes back around. he is no longer president, whatever civil immunity he may have had is gone. so i, know you can understand why a person who has just had an 83 million dollar judgment would love to be president again with the cloak of legal protection that came from the past, just a note. ultimately, what is the lesson here, though, about accountability?

>> i hope and i believe very strongly after today that the lesson is that actually no one is above the law. and that your behavior and your statements and your threats and your lives are going to catch up to you someday. >> i have to say, i have not had an opportunity to meet the client but i am completely in awe of her fortitude and insurance, endurance, and ecstatic on her behalf. i think you've said this, i think she would traded to not have been defamed in the first play. >> yeah, she saw that on the stands. it was certainly very important to her to come forward and defend herself when he called her a liar and defamed her. but the reputation that she has now is among a very large group of people really ruined by donald trump and what she really wants this to be that journalist, advice column is that she was before he lied

about her. >> sean crowley, you and robbie kaplan did great work, congratulations from your well earned victory. happy birthday. >> prime continues ahead was joyride. joyride. mon side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. this isn't charmin! no wonder i don't feel as clean. here's charmin ultra strong. ahhh! my bottom's been saved! with its diamond weave texture, charmin ultra strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort. enjoy the go with charmin. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪) sara federico: at st. jude, we don't care who cures cancer. we just need to advance the cure. it's a bold initiative to try and bump

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need to watch for contacts on today. donald trump, the access hollywood tape, it is deposition in the first trial between e. jean carroll, the first case that e. jean carroll brought. >> i'm automatically attracted to beautiful. it's like kissing them, it's like a magnet. just kiss. i don't even wait. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything, whatever you what. grab them by the -- you can do anything. >> that's true what stars. >> it's true with stars that they can grab people by the [bleep]? >> if you look over the last million of years it's been largely true, not always,

largely true, unfortunately, or fortunately. >> do you consider yourself to be a star? >> i think you can say that, yeah. >> i'm gonna go to the lady on my panel, april ryan, the reality is that this man said that and then became the president of the united states. i just want you as someone who's absorbed his attacks and knows what he's like up close, give me your thoughts on that, the fact that he became president, and the fact that he's poised to be the republican nominee? >> one, we forgot the tic tac, he uses a tic tac before he goes in on women, that was part of that infamous tape if you well. it's sickening to hear as a woman, taking the journalist cap off, as a woman, it's sickening to hear.

he views women particularly pretty women as a piece of meat because he's, a celebrity, a reality show celebrity, someone who has trademarked and branded his name. as someone who's taken the heat, continues to absorb the heat from the quote unquote, millions who live in their mothers basement. i think of two pieces of today's verdict by the jury, who showed that no man or woman is above the law, the $11 million a punitive damages, the $11 million to -- reputation. that's not even enough, not even enough. once donald trump puts his name, puts his name in your mouth, it's over, you're attacked, death threats, et cetera, you lose your home, your life is not the same.

$11 million is nothing. but that 65 million a punitive damages to punish, show that he is -- so many things wrong. he has defamed her, to make him hurt, for him to stand up and walk out of that courtroom, having an adult temper trying trump, he's hurting. the question is, will he have to pay this after appeal. i talk to armstrong well em's, he said what he's put to pay is no attention to this. >> let me actually bring glenn and, the question is if he was irregular american who owed child support or taxes, the government would just take the money. but he's donald trump. how does e. jean carroll get the money that she's entitled to go >> good news, it is that there are appeal boxes that can be put in place to make sure

there is money there to satisfy this 80 20 million dollar damages that the jury handed down at the end of the appeals process. we all know the process can take some time. unlike when someone is putting last bond to try and get out on bail, ordinarily, they put up at last -- the court is ordering by way of bail. however, when it comes to an appeals bond, joy, or ordinarily the majority of appeals in civil suits are a firm. that makes this really challenging for donald trump. in order to get an appeal bond, will likely have to put up most for all of the $83 million. so there is a pot of money that can be paid to e. jean carroll at the end of the appeals process. we'll have to put it up either

in cash, wasn't he bragging, that he has $400 million on hand? i'm betting he doesn't. or he'll have to put it up with property and i can only wonder how much equity he actually has been some of the properties he owns. you know what, there is going to be a pot of money and e. jean carroll's lawyers have been determined, they've been dog a, will continue to fight to make sure this appropriate money judgment to get satisfied. >> that is good news, good to know. you know this man, he's not been accused of being a sacks passed by e. jean carroll. i'm in a put up the numbers here. the number of women who have accused him of sexual misconduct, jessica leaves -- i can go on and on. all the way down, all those women. here is the way he has responded to some of these up because asians. here's donald trump shaming the women that have accused him. >> she said i made

inappropriate advances. by the way, the area was a public area, people all over the place. take a look, you take a look, look at her, look at her words and you tell me what you think, i don't think so, i don't think so. >> when you looked at that horrible woman last night you said, i don't think so. i was with donald trump in 1980, i was sitting with him on an airplane. and he went after me on the play. yeah, i'm gonna go after you, believe me, she would not be my first rights, that it could tell you. you don't know, that would not be my first choice. >> sounds like exactly said about e. jean carroll. >> his dehumanizing, castigating women in general is clear. i think what one needs to look

at, me as a new yorker that grew up in new york, as donald trump did. donald trump sold this brand that he was this brilliant businessman. and that he was like the great gaspé. i think today we're seeing where he will become more like the wizard of oz, when we look behind the veil, the curtain. the wizard has no clothes. primetime weekend continues ahead with alex wagner. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> woman: why did we choose safelite? we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust.

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yesterday, he was in south carolina talking to voters at morris college in historically black college. i know governor newsom is hitting the campaign trail in nevada and of primary voting in that state. if you noticed, this is a tour of red states, it's one that the governor is doing as an emissary of the biden campaign, to tell voters what is at stake in november. and yesterday, while in south carolina, i have the opportunity to speak to governor newsom about that work. we talked about the upcoming election, about his party's messaging, and about reproductive rights. we also talked about donald trump's dominance over the republican party and the way trump is running his campaign this time around. it's clear, his ground game, it's way better than it was in previous election campaigns. they've racked up the endorsements, they have a stranglehold on the republican party, they get out the vote

campaign, it's unmatched especially in the republican primary. is that cause for trepidation? >> no, look what we got, we're performing every single election, outperformed. by significant margins in every election, 2018, 2022, 23. not just at the national stage, when we look at these mayors racers in jacksonville or colorado springs. and every election democrats are winning. it's one of the great winning streaks in modern american politics for an incumbent president. i think jobs has an impact in terms of the framework, the reality out on the streets. >> the latest stats, 64,000 women and girls got pregnant from rape in states where there are abortion bans? >> and texas was the worst. >> you're the governor of a large state. do you think these republican governors who oversaw these bands either did not care or didn't understand? >> i don't think they care. >> that's republican women. >> it's disgraceful, it's sick.

here's the problem with the republican party. they're always getting in trouble when they get what they want. in a six-week ban, before you even know your pregnant, before you can get a doctor's appointment, criminalizing young kids, that were raped for trying to travel so that they can have a life, the freedom to decide for themselves, versus guys like tim scott, lindsey graham, who need to go through and ask permission. it's a serious moment, they're coming after contraceptive as well, that's how extreme they are. that's not me idly saying, it's a fact. i know you have strong feelings on this. >> a lot of things i think. [laughter] >> yeah right, insert subject here. i think a lot of people recognize what donald trump did to the supreme court, to make the overturning of roe possible. however, if he's asked about it and on national television, he lies about it, he is very mushy and it is working with a certain section of the

electorate. it's, in new hampshire, trump wins 80% of republicans who wanted a national abortion ban. and 44% of those that don't. similar kind of thing in iowa. he's getting a pass on this. short of saying over and over again, how do you further convince skeptical voters that this dude really stands for the end of choice as we know? it >> over, and over, and over, and over again we have to flood that message. we can't be allowed to get away with that, he can. we need to go aggressively. >> i'm not here to argue in trump's flavor. i'm saying some people don't believe he's in favor of a national abortion ban because their member has begun position being pro-choice. >> in a second he would sign that bill if it landed on his dax, period, full stop. >> i'm not arguing against that. >> he's responsible for the state of affairs, we need to define the opposition and

create that contrast. we need to flood the zone to remind people of his record, the reality that we're living here today in the fear that women and girls have in this country because of the conditions that he directly created through his actions. and that's our job, that's my job, it's our collective job, it's not joe biden or kamala harris's job, that's what the campaign is about. >> you know what it's like to run a big campaign a deal with donors, ask them for money. if you're a haley donor, are you looking and saying, yeah, i'll give you a couple more million dollars? >> you saw that trump tweet. >> you're not gonna be invited to maga camp. >> it's like thuggery, it's so predictable. >> we're like schoolyard petulance. >> it's a child-ness to it. i really believe this, he's a weakness masquerading a strength. and our primary, he's a t-rex, he will devour you where you meet with him. can't be beat in a primary, but

in a general election he's the most flawed candidate in my lifetime. he's damaged goods. he's not as entertaining as he once was. he's more unhinged than he ever was. and he's more dangerous across the spectrum. visit entire campaign -- i don't think that will junta this year. i think he's much weaker than he was in 2020, 2016. he's a force to be reckoned with, i never counted this guy, this was -- the nominee. day one i've been saying that, it's been said, he's a very vulnerable canada. >> i do need to ask you. we hear from the polling, anecdotally, one of the issues that the biden administration has lost a lot of footing, confidence, young voters, of voters of color, it's a key to the president when and they're upset -- and gaza. you've watched some of our, i know you're not in the

administration but do you think they made a misstep there? >> watch a close-up. i went to israel. i met with president, prime minister right after october 7th, saw the videos, those unredacted videos i can't get item i had. i applaud the presidents clarity and conviction as it relates to hamas being a terrorist organization that needs to be eliminated. that said, this is me speaking, not on behalf of anyone else, i'm a father of four, you can't watch these individuals, what's happening in gaza without your heart breaking. and with respect to bibi netanyahu, i met, for him to double down on top stupid by suggesting that two state solution is not the solution that's preferable, it's a huge tactical mistake, not political situation for the united states of america, but globally. it has profound consequences. i appreciate president biden's clarity, and conviction on that. i also appreciate's clarity and

conviction to end the war. primetime weekend continues just ahead with rachel maddow. maddow. by penetrating the skin, to boost regeneration at the surface cellular level. try olay.

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joining us now, very pleased to say, is nancy pelosi, former house speaker of the current speaker america. madam speaker, so much to ask you, we're glad you can be with us here tonight. >> my pleasure, thank you. >> you have been invoked in

this current discussion we are having, i'm sorry to say, the former president and campaigning in new hampshire did repeatedly try to attack you over the response to the january 6th insurrection at the u.s. capitol building. his opponent, nikki haley, made a lot of -- trying to attack you he kept using her name instead. we heard what nikki haley thought about that confusion, that statement by donald trump. i don't know what you thought about it, i'm curious? >> wow, let me just say, i'm not gonna spend too much time on donald trump's cognitive disorders. but what i am gonna say, i want to say -- he try to say that nikki haley did not allow the national guard to come but it was nancy pelosi. it was nobody, it was donald trump, he knows and you know, that mitch mcconnell, chuck schumer, and i begged four hours from the national guard

to come. he knows that we don't have the pardon to bring the national guard, the president does. it's sad to say -- every other state the governor has that power. so, i'm more concerned about what he was trying to accuse her of, again, his many respects and misrepresentations. don't spend so much time on him, we don't agonize about him. we organize. joe biden is our nominee and he's gonna be again -- kamala harris is gonna be president and vice president of the united states. it's now the time, the intensity has arrived. the election year is here. as you've seen, folks have come over from the white house, -- two stars of the political arena and our country are joining, julie chávez, she's done a great job as the campaign manager.

she has the biggest record of money race for a presidential campaign. more importantly, she is mobilizing at the grassroots level, organizing and coming now together with a message to go forward. the message, when he lies, he's a constant liar, of when he lies sometimes you need to listen to him. for example, he lied and said, obamacare sucks. to use his kind of language, obamacare socks. listen to when he says that, of course it doesn't, in the campaign people have to understand that their well-being is on the ballot, whether it's a woman's right to choose, which yesterday it's the 51st anniversary of when that became respected in our country, and to his judges pull back down and he brags about that. he says he's gonna terminate the affordable care act, what does that mean to you, if you

have a pre-existing condition, a child, if you still need health care, if you're being a woman, being a woman is no longer a pre-existing condition, the list goes on and on about importing care. people need to understand, listen when he speaks, he does not have your interest at heart even though you may not, i respect as you see here interest. but i make sure that you know how you're affected by some of what he says, whether it's guns, climate, whether it's a woman's right to choose, whether it's health care. in 2018, people said to me, were you lucky that health care became the central issue of the campaign and that's how you won 40 seats to win the house. i said no, we weren't lucky we made our own lock. let's get on with that, let's forget about him and his dysfunction, and understand that we need to get out our vote, we need to mobilize, on

the ground, we need to message and the interest said, public sentiment is everything, with it you can accomplish almost anything, without it, practically nothing. we need to have the financial resources, joe biden has proven that he can attract that message, mobilization, money. joe biden, great vision, great knowledge, great strategic thinker, great legislator. a person with a big heart and great for the american people. primetime weekend continues ahead with my colleague lawrence o'donnell. coming, up the brilliant award-winning writer director, avery duvernay, has taken the brilliant award winning -- " the origin of our discontent " and turned it into the most beautiful, moving, a new film called " origin " it's an honor to have a vote over nay joining

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isabelle wilkerson was a pulitzer prize-winning journalist when she first appeared on this program to discuss her book " the warmth of other sense " when it was on its way to becoming a bestseller it deserve to be. i said that it was impossible to understand america today without reading " the warmth of other sons ". in 2020, she returned with a new book of even bigger scope that challenge us to see ourselves in history a new. that book " cast, the origins of our discontents " it one isabelle will could send another pulitzer prize. it was in that book where i learned that the not study eight american segregation as a marvel for how they should purify german society using repress laws against jewish people. once again, i found myself saying, you cannot understand america today without reading

-- the origins of discontent. ava duvernay has been the magic of turning the book into the new film "origin", starring -- alice taylor, and the role of isabelle wilkerson, traveling the world to find those origins of our discontent. here she is in a scene. >> the principal was furious, he tells his secretary to check my records. and of course, they confirmed that my legal name is miss hale. so, he says to me, hail, i don't know any hail, from around here, where is your father from? and i said, he's from alabama. and he said, i knew you weren't from around here. you know how i know? and i said, no, and he said,

real cold, because you're looking me in the eye, colored folks around here know better. i was, i was scared. >> joining us now is emmy winner, peabody winner, bafta winner, globant globe winner, ava duvernay, writer and director "origin" of. eva, thank you for joining us tonight. it is not just because i love audra, and i've worked with her a couple decades ago, an amazing actress to work with. but that scene is emblematic of the book, and of the movie in the way that it opens your eyes to something you did not live and then you recognize instantaneously that of course,

of course, looking in the eye, they would not do that. and it's one of those astonishing eliminating moments from this film. >> that scene, it does exactly what you described, what you're getting at, what i feel when i wrote it and put it on its feet with audra and ingenue, the interiority, the intimacy of cast, and what that does to the individual person. we could deal with this cultural phenomenon, this anthropological thesis at large, but really what we try to do in the film is to humanize attendee very specific about its damage to the individual. >> i want to go to another scene because it's not in the book. this is -- working with nick offerman, again, in a scene that teaches us something that we cannot find anywhere else. this is a reach, we watch -- reach across the divide that

most of us cannot figure out how to reach across in any way. let's look at the scene. >> my money -- mother died a few months ago. what about you. ? he's your mother still alive? >> no, no she's not. died in 1991, 52 years old. >> goodness. that's not old. that's not old at all. >> sure ain't. >> your father? >> he's 78. >> we are lucky to have him. >> he's as mean as they come.

>> eva, once again, that's your seat, that's not from the book and you found a way of showing us how those two people could be in the same room and have that communication that i think most of us would not be able to find. >> yes, i was guided by a similar experience that isabelle shares. i think putting the scene on its feet within the film, as an artist, i need to find how it fits into the larger story that i am telling. "origin" is in a straight adaptation, it's about the life and work of isabelle wilkerson. i'm interested in her process, her intellectual quest, this woman globe-trotting around the world, thinking through the big problems, contemplating history and trying to understand it's context. it seems like that take on a new vibrancy.

and this was a pleasure, a puzzle to figure. out >> ava duvernay, thank you for joining us tonight. a real honor to have you here. >> thank you so much, appreciate it. this has been prime weekend, i'm lawrence o'donnell. tune into the last word at ten pm eastern weeknights on msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! >> woman: what's my safelite story? i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, i chose safelite. they replaced the glass and recalibrated my safety system. that's service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ - i got the cabin for three days. it's gonna be sweet! what? i'm 12 hours short. - have a fun weekend. - ♪ unnecessary action hero! unnecessary. ♪ - was that necessary? - no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom, employees do their own payroll

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you want to see who we are as americans? i'm peter dixon and in kenya... we built a hospital that provides maternal care. as a marine... we fought against the taliban and their crimes against women. and in hillary clinton's state department... we took on gender-based violence in the congo. now extremists are banning abortion

and contraception right here at home. so, i'm running for congress to help stop them. for your family... and mine. i approved this message because this is who we are. you may know adam schiff's work to protect the rule of law, or to build affordable housing, or write california's patients bill of rights. but i know adam through the big brother program. we've been brothers since i was seven. he stood by my side as i graduated from yale, and i stood by his side when he married eve, the love of his life. i'm a little biased, but take it from adam's little brother. he'll make us all proud as california senator. i'm adam schiff and i approve this message. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening, welcome to