dick durbin agrees with me, if you give people the ability to pursue these claims, we will still have great product but they will change the way they do business. >> senator amy klobuchar, thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right. now good evening, alex. >> nothing motivates people like the lawsuit. >> true. it's very complicated. but -- >> oh really? is? it literally the most complicated thing. >> very complicated. >> it's so an memorizing in a terrifying way for me. thank you, my friend. >> you bet. >> thanks to at-home for joining us this hour. it is a real hodgepodge of people and groups. vivek ramaswamy, the rnc, the naacp, hundred 79 members of congress, three former attorneys general, three current secretaries of state,

multiple civil war historians, the group of capitol police officers, and rose and barr, are at least someone named roseanne barr, who purports to live in the same state where the real roseanne barr actually lives. now what to all of these people in organizations have in common? well, they have all signed on to amicus briefs. formally telling the supreme court their opinion on the question can be removed from the balloon state of california colorado for violating the 14th amendment. now just as a refresher the third section of the 14th amendment disqualified former government officials from holding office if they engage in insurrection or give aid or comfort to those who did. to th

you don't hear anything legal

experts say that the paces on track for a trial.

the judge, aileen cannon, or the schedule for pretrial motions. they pushed all of the deadlines a couple of months. so even though that cases that we still scheduled for may. legal experts believe that judge cannon has structure the statewide highways which the trial past the 2024 election. today we have new reporting from politico, that clearly fit just yet another one of trump's criminal trials were delayed by more judges. we will figure that out, process elimination, -- jack smith's federal election interference case. separately paydays now, that case has been frozen. the judge not, creators tanya tuck in, how effectively put it on hold. trump strain of presidential

immunity has made its way through the oculus, rasmussen is clear that if he loses, the hands to repeal again to the supreme court. and georgetown has concluded its almost pandas impacted seal to the highest court in the land, she will keep this case program. unable to proceed, until their decisions from the supreme court. it has been 50 days, and we don't even have an appeals court ruling yet. and as political reports again today, the longer it takes for the appeals court tools, the light clarity supreme court would have the issue in the fall, effectively grilling out a trial before the election. can anything be done here? joining me now are michael schmidt, investigative reporter and are not so secret wealth, and msnbc legal analyst. thank you for being here. i mean, we will keep behind the curtain, every night, every

night you say is this the night. so far we have got nothing. what is happening here in your estimation? >> i can only have a guess. but we have a three judge panel on qvc circuit. my guesses these three judges have a general agreement between them that donald trump should not be in the federal election interference case. how they get, they're on the other hand, it's a different matter. and in the ideal world, all three of them would participate in total agreement. all three of them get to sign on, but of course, there are many different paths to getting there. and one judge suggested during

an argument that what really matters to her is the allegations against trump are ones that affect his duties, or that affect him in the campaign capacity. he suggested that you really had to partially indictments. that was the worst of all, because that can unite the case was sent back to judge chutkan to determine which aspects of the indictment are worthy of immunity and which are not. and that could even further along the case on the appellate process. so i think that's behind the scenes, the two judges would like to get there, in an easier way more akin to judge chutkan putting some pressure on judge anderson. to try to get on board and see if they could do something. >> political does talk about was the judges can view the hind these seems to pressure if there is a holdout, how much can they needle her and would be even needle her to come to a conclusion with whatever she is

writing given now, -- >> typically, the appellate judges knew each other in very different then -- >> i wasn't going to say that. were they doing thunder are trying to see if they can agree to legal reasoning. if a very legal dialogue an intellectual argument's, not could you please pick up -- it would be michael schmidt. it seems to me on one hand, there's a broad part of the american public that is saying

-- >> donald trump would exploited the sun to the ends of the, earth and certainly within the balance of the legal system. do you think that it is important, at least politically speaking, in terms of the utility of this decision being used as a tool in trump's arsenal, that everybody basically agreed and come to a general conclusion? >> i think more important than that is the massive issue that was delayed in the justice department investigation into trump's. it is a huge deal, it didn't take liz cheney two years to figure out that there was a criminal problem here. so it for some reason it took the justice department it long period of time. we do not have the full story of why that happened but they started at the bottom and if donald trump does not go on trial before the election, a big reason for that would be because of that delay. and because garland move so

slowly. that is a huge deal. >> can i interrupt you? because we had your colleague talking about that very reason, and there's some reporting that suggests real concern inside the doj and the transition from trump to biden that the department was too hot, to put it in layman's terms. they wanted to back away from prosecuting donald trump, and effectively, they started with the january six defendants. and only after the house january six committee had this public spectacle detailing all of the evidence that pointed to trump did they feel the sufficient amount of pressure to pursue this in a meaningful way. work me through how you think the department of justice is responding, can respond, might respond given the reality that we are now looking, at which is the earliest -- >> i don't think there's anything that we can do. they are subject to the schedule that is outside of their hands. they could control this on the front and. they could have move more

quickly, they could have appointed a special counsel earlier, and that would have started the clock earlier. once you start the clock, i think, tell me if i am wrong, you start to lose control. and they have lost control. and now they are at the whims of these judges. and as you are saying, it is not really clear how they can move each other along, what these schedule really is, how quickly will they move, and of the supreme court steps in, that won't happen until potentially the fall. so it raises the prospect that, you can engage in trying to overthrow an election and then you can avoid going on trial about that, and you can run for reelection to win, to essentially have that case dismissed. >> that feels like what is unfolding right now.

in terms of the supreme court, in terms of when we are going to get the appellate court decision, what would it take for the supreme court to take this up on an expedited basis? how unusual is that given the way that they have behaved on other items? jack smith has tried to leapfrog the appellate court to begin with and they are like, no thanks. >> it took jack smith 11 days between asking the supreme court to review the lower court's decision, land us can frets but i did briefing on that. it took them 11 days to say we are not going to do that. that is for a positive on the supreme court wants to it can move with all deliberate speed. and in the ordinary course, this would move at a pace -- a petition are at the supreme court has 90 days to even ask for that. >> just to be clear, the appeals court could say that

donald trump, you are not immune, you are not immune, and he has 90 days to take it to the supreme court. >> and the ordinary course. and the person who opposes that has another 30 days to oppose. and two weeks after that, no sooner, could it be distributed to the justices to confer on whether to even grandview in the first place. that illustrates how slowly this is. on the other hand, the supreme court has proved positive when there is a will there is a way. this is also the same cord that reviewed bush v. gore and four days and its own written decision with oral arguments. just four days. and the nixon cases often use as the precursor to this. seven weeks from the district court opinion to the supreme court opinion. again, with lots of briefings, and arguments in between. this is capable of moving. whether it wants to is entirely

different. >> donald trump had to master strikes in this. one is making the basic prosecution of trump inner circles appear to be a partisan witch hunt. that is apparently part of the reason that merrick garland sat on his hands for lack of a better metaphor. the other thing he has done that has been remarkably effective is to suggest that expediting these trials, getting a verdict, whether guilty or innocent, is somehow partisan. that idea has really see into the groundwater and it really feels like even the judges are buying it. like aileen cannon down in florida really seems to be slow walking this. you wrote, i think the definitive piece as far as overseeing this case, it feels like she's toeing the line on this. >> the problem is when this all started and it all came out that he was with an investigation for the

documents, she made these rulings that legal experts and judges above her looked at, and said made no sense related to whether the government, what the government could do with the evidence that they took from donald trump's mar-a-lago. out of all of the judges that could have gotten the case, she now has the actual case, and she is someone as we detailed, who has extremely little experience, has a highly complicated case in front of her, has shown unusual leanings towards trump, and can very easily make sure that this can have a trial not happen until after the election. >> and skillfully not saying i am going to push this, it is kind of like death by 1000 cuts, right? there are small incremental believes that seem reasonable. >> whether it is fair or not, and our system, judges, and i think that legal folks would say that this is not fair get branded by the people who

appoint them. she's a trump appointee. doesn't mean that she's on the take for donald trump? or does not just mean the perception is there. whatever it is, she has that perception amongst a lot of folks who are closely watching this. >> we are saying a lot. karen henderson, a george h. w. appointee and aileen cannon, a trump appointee for whatever that is worth. my friends, thank you so much for your time and thoughts this evening. coming up, nikki haley turns up the attacks on trump, and biden, and barack obama. more on that coming up, but first, new subpoenas to fani willis. they require her to testify publicly about an alleged affair. what does that all mean for the conspiracy case against donald trump? that is next.

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prop f requires single adults receiving cash assistance to enroll in treatment if they use drugs. i know what it's like to lose family to drug addiction. it's too late for some families. but our city needs to do what's necessary to save lives. please vote yes on prop f. >> there's some news out of fulton county, georgia today where district attorney, fani willis, has charged donald trump and 18 others and the sprawling election conspiracy case, where she has been subpoenaed. d.a. willis may have to testify publicly at a hearing next month over allegations that she was having an affair with prosecutor, nathan wade, and that mr. weighed benefited financially from the relationship. the subpoenas were part of a

new lawsuit filed by mike roman. and alleged fake elector and trump codefendant who is trying to disqualify d.a. willis from this case. mr. roman is now claiming that d.a. willis is intentionally withholding information ahead of this hearing, which miss willis denies. it is unclear if willis or weight will testify. they can both seek to quash the subpoenas. but if they do testify, they will do so under oath, and the hearing will be televised per georgia law. meanwhile, the judge in this case, judge scott mcafee who's also overseeing willis's election conspiracy case, has directed miss willis to respond to them the conduct allegations by friday. these allegations are merely that. allegations. and as of right now, they do not change the facts of the actual case against trump. but could they change its outcome? joining me now is anthony michael price, assistant of law at georgia state university. it is great to see you, thank you for making the time, i know

that we checked and when this case was kind, of what should we call it, the situation was first unfolding down in georgia. and there is more evidence produced of the relationship between mr. weight and miss willis. i wonder what you think happens now in terms of next steps for miss willis, and where judge mcafee may come down on this. >> well, the first thing that we will have to see is whether or not the d.a. finds the subpoenas to prevent her, to prevent special prosecutor wade and others from testifying in the hearing that is scheduled for february 15th. that is the first thing i am looking for. in addition to seeing what the filing contains, that is due on february 2nd. at least before february 2nd. i think ultimately, as a legal matter, it is very unlikely that the judge will disqualify the office, or will find that the prosecution is somehow tainted by this relationship, if all of the fact spear out as a seem to be bearing out.

there are two basic claims that are an issue here. one, the selective prosecution claim, and other words, it was only pursued in advance because there was a profit to be had by the d.a., and by the special cues prosecutor weighed. and then there is a claim that there is a larger conflict of interest that there is a pecuniary game to be had from the conviction of these defendants. i think that that latter claim is a very unlikely to manifest into anything in terms of a disqualification. the former one is also very unlikely to get judge mcafee's attention. because it is very unlikely for these defendants to show the special prosecutor wade and his involvement in this case is really the driving force behind the prosecution. it is really hard to bring a selective prosecuting plane. ultimately, they are very likely to fail. >> but there are other efforts that the state, if not the courts can pursue, to get the a

willis taken off of this case. is that right? there are various commissions that have been established, disbanded, there are various levels of evolution, but it appears that the republicans in the state are, if not eager and into trusted in further examining ethics breaches in that case, it could be problematic for d.a. willis. is that right? >> it could be. there are a lot of moving parts here. there is a disciplinary body that was created last year, for prosecutors that the general assembly could not really have implemented because that is being brought to the general assembly again this weekend. that could be a source of the headache for the d.a. down the road. there's also a senate committee hearing or committee that has been formed to investigate the fulton county d.a.'s office and this particular incident. that could be potentially problematic and there will be subpoena power within that committee. it is really untested power against the state of georgia.

and the georgia constitution. that could be dragged out for quite some time before any information is produced. there is also the potential for impeachment that i think would have no success, no success in the general assembly should that be pursued. but that could also be a potential headache for the d.a., and more damning evidence is unearthed. there are those outside forces, which would certainly create a headache, it could create a problem for the d.a.. i think we really have to separate these issues into two buckets. one, the political, the other, the legal. the legal one being does this derail the case in any significant way? that seems to be really unlikely to happen. the political side of things, the optics of, it dealing with these kinds of outside institutions looking in, and engaging in oversight, that is something that i think the d.a. will really have to contend with, and it will be a major headache, again, even if the ultimate legal questions before the judge mcafee are decided in

their favor. >> the headaches are one thing. but one would think that all of the swirl of perceived controversy here might undermine her ability, in the most basic sense, to get plea deals. i think in december, fani willis said that there was a possibility that more of these codefendants would be taking plea deals with the state. we have not heard any ponytails announced, and i wonder if you would draw a line between the allegations that are in the air now, the suggestion that maybe we should take it off, or the weekend, which is obviously and the intention from michael roman and his allies. and the inability of the d.a.'s office, at least from the outside to secure more peels from these defendants. >> it is a very mixed bag. if i was the defendant sitting in their shoes, on the one hand this looks really good because it is creating a dialogue that is completely removed from the narrative of the case. on the other hand people have

short memories. juries in the process are meant to ferret out people who come in with prejudices. there is a real mixed risk here. and the other thing is if there was a disqualification there might be the chance that this gets sent to a.d.a.'s office and has no interest in pursuing prosecutions. or that will make super favorable deals or it could go to a neighboring office like in dekalb county which is very similar to full county where you have equal prosecutors and the bandwidth from purple will to do and continue this investigation. so that is a real risk as well. i do not know if it ultimately will affect anybody's calculus especially if they can get a particularly good deal, i think that what we have to see is what happens with the case on february 15th, and the evidentiary hearing, because this might be much to do about nothing. there are certainly evidence that is politically not ideal. it certainly is implicating

potential ethical issues and the like. but if it is not going to derail the case or remove the district attorney's office from the case, hedging the r.i.c.o. charge, it is something that you probably don't want to do. >> hedging your bets against a r.i.c.o. charge, never a good idea. michael christ, thank you for your expertise on this matter, i really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up, nikki haley unveiled a new novel theory about who is to blame for the political division in this country and here is a hint, it is not donald trump or joe biden. i'll give you the answer, right after the break. the break.

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not just any whiteboard... ...katie porter's whiteboard is one way she's: [news anchor] ...often seen grilling top executives of banks, big pharma, even top administration officials. katie porter. never taken corporate pac money - never will. leading the fight to ban congressional stock trading. and the only democrat who opposed wasteful “earmarks” that fund politicians' pet projects. katie porter. focused on your challenges - from lowering housing costs to fighting climate change. shake up the senate - with democrat katie porter. i'm katie porter and i approve this message. growing up, my parents wanted me to become a doctor or an engineer. those are good careers! but i chose a different path. first, as mayor and then in the legislature. i enshrined abortion rights in our california constitution.

in the face of trump, i strengthened hate crime laws and lowered the costs for the middle class. now i'm running to bring the fight to congress. you were always stubborn. and on that note, i'm evan low, and i approve this message. >> republican presidential candidate, nikki haley, has a new strategy. she's finally ready to attack donald trump. as long as she can attack joe biden at the same time. the new york times reports today in a new series titled grumpy old men, the haley campaign plans to start unveiling online videos, digital ads, and voter emails that will underscore the ways in which haley has argued that the two party front-runners are alike. okay. set aside the fact, for a

moment, that in the kayleigh was trying to attack her opponents for being will be referencing a movie for 30 years ago. governor haley's new strategy seems to be to draw comparisons between two people, who apart from their advanced ages, have almost nothing in common. in other words, nikki haley is literally alienating almost all voters on every side of the issue as if she has no idea which people she's supposed to be courting. and if you needed a clearer example of that, nikki haley sat down today for an interview with the breakfast club, which is one of america's most popular syndicated black talk radio shows, and on that show, nikki haley decided to blame america's division on the first black president. >> i think with obama, that was if you go back, that is when we really started to feel the division. that is when we really, it was -- >> [inaudible] . >> it was everything.

everything was exonerated with the obama administration. it became more about gender, more about race, more about separating americans instead of bringing them together. >> permit me for a second, nikki haley such during the obama administration everything became more and more about separating people by gender and race. it has been nearly eight years since barack obama was president. but it is worth remembering, what barack obama actually did on the issues of gender and race, he passed the act which close the gender pay gap. he became the first president in history to endorse marriage equality. he worked ensure health insurance coverage birth control under the affordable care act. when it came to race, president obama started the my brother's keeper initiative to help young men of color overcome opportunity gaps. he used his position to speak for grieving communities, many of them communities of color after the massacre at the church, and after the killings of unarmed black teenagers like trayvon martin and michael

brown. and all of that, according to nikki haley, was about dividing americans. >> it became more about separating americans instead of bringing them together. >> that was because of the right-wing media. >> i don't think, everybody is at fault, i'm not saying that one person did this, i'm saying under that administration, it really did cause some, you just felt, people felt like they were being put in camps. >> the obama administration was dividing administrations by putting people in camps. just take a second remember how nikki haley's actual primary opponent in this race, how he ran for president the first time around. >> donald j trump is calling for a total and complete shut down, of muslims entering the united states, until our countries representatives can figure out what is going on.

>> when mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. they're bringing drugs, there are bringing crime, they are rapists, and some, i assume, are good people. >> donald trump is now running on an immigration plan that would literally put people into camps. based on their immigration status. but it is all obama's fault? beyond the factual absurdity here, what is the goal of going on one of the most popular black radio programs and the country to disparage the man who won reelection in 2012 with 93% of the black vote. who is the strategy for? and how long the keely keep this up? we will talk about that in the state of the 2024 presidential race, next. race, next. skin. so, we switched to tide pods free & gentle. it cleans better, and doesn't leave behind irritating residues. and it's gentle on her skin. tide free & gentle is epa safer choice certified. it's got to be tide.

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>> i have never kissed up to trump. i have always told him the hard truth. and now he said yesterday the stock market is great because people are excited about him being president. how many more times are you going to let him lie about things that aren't true and say, you know what, something is not quite right? and this is also about a general election. this was about who can win. he can't win moderates. he can't win independents. he can't win suburban women. he lost in 2018. he lost in 2020. he lasted 2022. how many more times do you have to lose before you say, you know what, maybe that's not the

guy? >> until now, nikki haley refused who after donald trump in any meaningful way. that is the primary season heats up she's finally shifting gears. from park into neutral. joining me is charlie sykes, editor at large of the bulwark. charlie, thank you. i don't know, everyone is like, here it is, it's a big nikki haley. the arrows are out for donald trump. and it's, like she's going after him for tariffs. i don't know, do you think we're seeing the new nikki haley right now? >> well, every hour on the hour i get a text from her saying charlie, it's nikki, have you heard the latest thing that donald trump has done? he's lying about me. then she tries to sell me a t- shirt based on his threat to exile anybody from margot who contributes to her. and just when you think that maybe she has found the voice, you get something like what we heard today. nikki haley comes up to the

ball, looks like she's going to kick it, and then pulls it away herself, to mix the metaphor. she's not the one we've been waiting for. even though she's willing to say donald trump is a liar, donald trump is a loser, she is not willing to say the kind of things that chris christie was saying, that he's fundamentally unfit. i think that holdouts where she's trying to say, if the country is divided, it's because of barack obama shows how hard it is for republicans in this particular electorate to deal with the damage that donald trump has done. they just cannot take him on and placed him in the context and say look we are in this moment because that guy came the golden escalator and republicans capitulated to him over and over and over again. >> it also seems she's taking a page almost from trump's playbook trying to invoke the specter of obama.

obama divided the country? don't even get into the division question if you're going to punt it to obama. this is a tried and true mechanism from donald trump to foment fear in and around the country's first black president. it seems like she's adopting the same strategy here. >> very much so. what you are seeing is the addiction to whataboutism. if you are going to attack trump you also have to make it very clear to republican voters that you also oppose the democrats. i understand the political tactic here that you are running in a republican primary, but as you pointed out, the grumpy old man is not only tired. it doesn't make any particular substantive point. but going back to obama, i think what she's trying to do is saying this is one of the rogers zones of the republican electorate. if we can find something we can all agree on. but again, in the context of this particular moment, when

donald trump says or does something on a regular basis that reminds us how dangerous and anti constitutional he is, a man who was impeached for trying to overthrow a free and fair election, and you're going in saying, if he's not the cause of the division, it's this other guy that has been gone for eight years. this is the problem with nikki haley. she just can't -- remember the hot mic incident with chris christie? where he was caught the night he dropped out and he said, you know what, she's going to get smoked because she's just not up to it. i think you're seeing that demonstrated again. >> i think her inability to talk about race, and she seems so disoriented and so marblemount whenever she's asked about race, i want to play this, she was asked about the way in which donald trump has tried to weaponize her indian name, no rada, and whether or not that's racist.

this is what she had to say. >> you think trump mocking your birth name was racist? >> what you let other people decide that. you look at it and it's kind of like the tim scott you sleep with yourself. let donald trump sleep without all he wants. >> she can't even defend herself and her heritage to say nothing about heritage and identities of other americans of color maligned by donald trump. i find that shocking. >> i find it sadly not shocking because we've seen how republicans have become really gun-shy in talking about race. when she was asked, is a former governor of south carolina, what was the cause of the civil war, and she was unable to mention slavery, that was a reflection of the fact that she thinks the the republican party voters don't want to hear that kind of thing anymore. they don't want to have racism called out anymore, which shows

not only that she's somewhat timid about this but she has a view of the republican electorate that may not be completely inaccurate. but here's the other point. that's kind of revealing. she's not gonna be elected president. she's not gonna be don trump. and at this point she has to decide, who does she want to be? does she want to go down to defeat by being mealymouthed before she has to stand on the stage behind on trump and endorse him? or does she want to make a full- throated statement of principle of who she is and what she thinks the republican party can be? and from moment to moment it feels like she is shifting. if she's been edging up to there and saying i'm gonna go out here with my integrity intact and then she says yeah, maybe not. >> it's amazing to watch the psychological push and pull or the ethical push and pull that is so clearly on display. charlie sykes, we still have 24 days to go, theoretically at

least. please come back soon and talk more about this. i appreciate you. >> anytime. >> coming up, this week in congress, we've got to witness something that's more rare than a solar eclipse. in fact it has not happen in 148 years and it is not a good sign that it is happening now. we will talk with brendan buck about what it means for congress and the country in 2024, coming up next. country 2024, coming up next. safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com

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gain. in other words, taking bribes. this time around, republicans are moving to impeach secretary mayorkas for failing to uphold the law and breaching the public trust. sounds official. it is not actually a crime or a misdemeanor. by all accounts secretary mayorkas mayorkas has been doing his job, a job that allows him to determine how and when to detain migrants, to decide which migrants to prioritize, and to use his authority to allow migrants to temporarily live and work in the united states for humanitarian reasons. someone should tell steve scalise. >> secretary mayorkas's job is to protect americas homeland. it's a homeland security secretary. when it comes before congress, he testifies under oath that america's border secure. that's a flat out lie. secretary of homeland security is the person in charge of the border. he can secure the border today. he has chosen not to. >> the articles impeachment

against secretary mayorkas are now headed to the house floor for a vote as early as next week. joining me now, brendan, back msnbc political analyst and former press secretary to former house speaker john boehner. brandon, is the impeachment of alejandro mayorkas the big winner for republicans in 2024? >> well they certainly think it is. and you know what? it may be. at least the issue of immigration is proven to be a winner for republicans. i think that is why they have -- last year polls show that people blame biden more than -- they probably think is good and i think we're probably giving them too much credit to think that there actually is a political angle here. a lot of this is just pure base republican politics. it even just house conference politics where there's been so much energy spent convincing people at home that the administration's willfully allowing immigrants into the

country for whatever agenda, and you tell people that this problem is going on for a long time, eventually gonna expect you to do something about it. this is perhaps the easiest thing that they can grasp and do. it certainly cheapens what impeachment is all about. but a lot of times you have to remember, a lot of house republicans are in their own universe, in their own heads. they think they are solving really important problems, whether or not the average voter looks at them and take them seriously at all. >> i think it's fair to mention here, they think they have a winner by impeaching alejandro mayorkas. but the reality is, the potential that would go farther to solving the border crisis is the bipartisan immigration deal being scuffled by the republican front runner, donald trump. do you think republicans don't pay a price for that when it comes to national interest in immigration? >> they're obviously getting the president a huge opportunity. this is why it's so frustrating. we have an incredibly rare

opportunity right now to do something about the border. and if you are a republican who has always rejected these compromises because democrats have insisted on legalization, this is an opportunity where that's not even on the table. you really just get a stronger border policy. this is the argument mitchell cattle has been making to senators. and yet we are walking away from that. it is very emblematic of what the house has become. we are putting this type of theater in place of solving actual problems. i think what i'm concerned is that no one does pay a political price anymore for not putting policy first. you are rewarded for theater. that is what so much of the house has become. in 2016 there was a somewhat similar effort to impeach the irs commissioner. i don't know if you remember. >> oh yes. >> the freedom caucus was trying to impeach him because they were upset, some of his past, actions he wasn't even the commissioner at the time,

some of the things people are upset, with that we made the argument that this was not serious, then impeachment should mean something, and when this was brought up for a vote, over 100 members of the republican conference voted with leadership to defeat it. we were much more serious place just eight years ago when that took place. it's a very different house now. theater is rewarded. >> i don't know whether i'm getting too deep down the conspiracy rabbit, all but the fact that mitch mcconnell was so clear that they were going to punt on this in service to trump really felt like kind of an almost backhanded disclosure. do you think that was mitch mcconnell, if you will, getting the last laugh? >> mcconnell obviously does the politics better than anybody. mitch mcconnell was trying to find some way to send money to ukraine. that's what this is all about for him. i think he now realizes that he's exhausted everything that they can do here. it's not surprising. we've talked about this before.

immigration is the single hardest thing for us to be able to do. leaving donald trump aside, this was going to be very hard to do, just because of the incentives of the republicans to cater to that base again. but donald trump walking into this day's even issue guaranteed it wasn't going to happen, and it's surprising that it took that long for mcconnell to say it out loud. >> i'll say. the only good thing to come of this is my understanding of the history of cabinet impeachments, and it goes back to william belknap in 1876, when it was a serious thing. brendan buck, my friend, thank you for your time tonight. >> good to see you >> that is our show for tonight, now it's time to the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, alex, tonight the night. i can't take it anymore. i have to unburden myself on republicans, the nfl, and taylor