really terrifying changes to education curriculum in florida. and that's what concerns me most about this bill. desantis is the one who's appointing the people on this test for us. desantis, as you mentioned, is the one who signed i don't say gay. and this is -- kate and earlier grace, he expanded it. it applies to all kits in carry through 12 public schools. now no discussion of classroom -- sort, no discussion of sexual orientation or gender identity. we saw that reflection of that slavery curriculum, as i'm sure all your viewers remember. kids are now for cleric to laurent people who were enslaved benefited from being enslaved, which is insane. sorry, go ahead. >> unfortunately, we're out of time. the knicks shut will start in two seconds. thanks for being here.

i'll let everyone that's a wrap. i'll see you again tomorrow, one pm eastern. row, one pm eastern. welcome to the big weekend, i'm all right number. let's get right into the headlines. i want to remind you how they got here and where we are going. this trial, the combination of many runs off to face for defendant rump. >> donald trump once again in a courtroom, with the fate of his business empire now on trial. >> i declined answer the question. but >> 2019 statement of financial condition contained false and misleading information and statements. is that correct? >> same answer. >> we haven't done a dam thing wrong -- >> i will not be bullied, i would not be harassed, this case will go on. >> she was right. the case went on and while there were many different tactics to try to obfuscate or delay, as our guest bill crystal just mentioned, she

would win those rounds. as for them as rolling years in some of, it was quite exhausted. judgment, i want to show you this, you can see here and i, some of the key parts. in order to report more at lower writes, trump and his team would submit blatantly false financial data icons which drove the road. then across these negative because, that shows that with the claims and evidence finding when confronted trial, with the statements, there are states about all this lying, trump's defendants, fact, it broke witnesses -- they simply, quote, denied reality. as a practical matter, this fine is staggering for a company. this was a trump look. the total with a three plus baseline, the interest we just heard the a.g. speak about, takes the total up to over $453 million. plus barring trump from operating in the business from the best set of realistic in new york for three years.

the massive penalty of course is on top of other recent, huge fines like the defamation case and round one of the defamation case, that alone goes up to $90 million. legal fees, recently, $50 million. donald trump has been taken's position largely if not uncharted by his on making her hands over half a billion dollars in legal fees and counting. into a business. welcome back. at a certain point numbers, become very hard to measure, and differentiate. i don't know that when you start saying oh, it's 100 million, it's 300 million, all in, it's half a billion. these are numbers most people deal with most companies don't kind of legal fees. so is this a big cost to trump or tonight? >> yeah this is devastating. you know, let's start with the most basic question, how much cash does donald trump have

right now? he's sitting on roughly 400 -- dollars -- the numbers that you just outlined are far higher than that. so all the sudden, he's good to have to come up with not the hundred or 150 billion dollars -- he's orgoing to need some cushion to operate a real estate business. so he's going to have to come up with multiple hundreds of millions of dollars in cash. and there are two ways to do. that one's you borrow against your current assets. now, one part urof this ruling that is really problematic for trump, is that they barred him h from borrowing from new york -- financial institutions for nc three years. so l taking out those enormous loans against assets is not going to be as easy for him, as it would be for any other developer who owns the exact same assets. the other thing that he can do is he can sell assets. but, if he sells assets, everybody knows that he needs to sell assets. and although donald trump has always said that his properties are worth much more than they -- are he has been very very

reluctant to sell anything at anything close to its true value. so now all the, sudden he's going to have nto be cutting t deals on fire sales. this is going to be really ugly for him, and for the trump organization. >> you mentioned the trump organization, zaand from what we've discussed a lot about donald trump. he basically tried to hand off partial responsibility for operative responsibility to his sons. and there they are really called out in this ruling as well. they cite multiple examples of financial wrongdoing, the judge writes that eric trump was part of a habit of inflating the value in his -- new york. that in 2014 a -- advised him and trump fully to the development of around 14 mill. and in that same, week trump advised -- to used 161 million dollar valuation. the judge also says that eric trump knowingly inflated the different property each year from 15 to 18. he advised, again that same official who was sort of the controller, to leave 101 million, despite his knowledge that it was worth less than

half of that. and the judge writes quote, although eric trump testified, he had no idea that he intended the banks to rely upon the certification. the court finds that testimony i not credible, as eric trump was aware that the certifications were required for the loans. and so dan, i take that detail back to you. this is a situation where at a distance, people look at a phone alert, they look opat social media and they say oh, they are going after trump again this, and that, they have it in for. we , heard of that asked for trump's defense when he spoke tonight. but it actually looks like i would say pretty meticulous in that point by point. this is not speculative, when you have in the same week receipts showing someone new -- and then lied about it, and wanted to call it why. >> well the fundamental problem for eric trump, donald trump jr., and donald trump, is that this case relies on a -- bounty of documentary evidence. and you can't argue against that. their signatures are all over

these papers saying we attest to the truthfulness of this number, we attest to the truthfulness of that anumber. and then they go into court ula say oh, we didn't really know much , about these numbers. it's very hard to take that back. now financially for them, one of the things that really hurts is that part thof the penalty i a -- against the profits from the d.c. hotel that they owned, along with their father. their father has not let them in on eimany of these deals. but he did give them each 7% of the d.c. hotel, and that was a very successful deal for them. so for almost $400 million, and gave them a nice windfall of about $4 million a piece, which is real money to anybody, but even to, them , that's real money. now this case is going. to >> especially with -- he ecially with how little involves them in. >> exactly. this is going to crawl back. the one deal that they had really been ona part of, and th got major money from, now that's all getting washed away too. >> really interesting. dan alexander, on a breaking news night, we appreciate you.

and you ran the numbers for us. our thanks. i want to tell everyone at home, we've got a new guest we're got a lot on this big story. a little bit more of our break down, i told moyou we would be doing this piecemeal over the course of the night. and i always eakeep it real wit you suntan your watching these big supreme court dates, so he s, will set up, you could pull the case, read it yourself. if yyou do want to read this, case that's great, i welcome and encouraged. but this is not like a supreme court case or some of the other rulings we've had that are easy to read. we do have the scan up on the screen, if you want to pull it down. but i'll tell you that at times, it gets quite arcane, because it goes through all of these properties piece by piece. and so what we are going to endeavor to do tonight, overbite sites morsels, is show you some of the key parts. and that brings us to a another one i wanted to show, you that is wapretty interesting. which is the other son don jr., we just mentioned that 4 million dollar liability how this -- basically would be tough. it has teeth for everyone involved, don junior also is part n of the ban -- it's a thr- year ban for him, for him it's a two-year. man and remember, don jr. also

got dragged into all of this. he had to sit, he tried to run, he adtried to, duck key -- but had to sit for a deposition, where he proved quite vague. >> do you have any familiarity with an acronym, gap, gaap? >> generally accepted accounting principles. >> alhow did you become familia with that acronym? >> probably in an accounting one-on-one at work. >> and, what did they teach you about, generally accepted accounting principles, and -- >> well, i'm ncnot an accountan but they are generally accepted. [laughter] >> anything else? >> that's pretty much what i remember from accounting 101. >> sounds like a fun day, imagine doing that for three or four hours. now, the lawyer from the estate for the attorney general here going asked don jr., asked about who held authority for these decisions. and, he basically that had to admit what was known, and what the documents show, that it was this trigger here of -- and his burrow.

that's a key revelation that goes to responsibility. now in today's ruling, brand- new, this is the key parts i told you i'm going to share with yyou, the judge finds tha despite disclaiming of responsibility for or knowledgei of certain statements of financial conditions, trump jr. would insist that all of the material statements were accurate. so that's another example where the judge went through it all and found this tension, at times basically misleading material, fraud is the legal word, lies is a another word. and i want to add to our discussion here in this, new york times investigative reporter russ -- , with a focus on trump's finances. welcome. >> nice to be here, thank you. >> here we are sitting around, n you might be the closest thing to a tv accountant, we will give you that. you definitely know more than bill, fair? >> [laughter] fair. >> and so. >> bill barr. >> yes, right [laughter] >> yeah, i apologize. but, these things i've told viewers tvery directly, it's hard to read a whole ruling

like this, even in the business side, there are people who don't know as much about you and the times have been really exhausted d on this. and so, my first question to you is just big picture, does this ruling and the tensions that it finds, does it match what you've found, your understanding 'vof this? is it worse, is it better? i mean just because you've been on this for so long. >> well i think that the big trend that we see, is what we saw in analyzing the income tax for zi20 years. which is that heat was really rich about a decade ago from money from entertainment and from endorsement of licensing deals. in 2011 just those categories which were absent business expertise. he brought home $51 million from that. and he used that money to fill in the gaps on some money losing businesses that he had created himself, and also to create some of f,these new businesses. and then asked that money trailed, off as the apprentice became less popular all of that sort of dried up. and it went from $51 million to $3 million by 2018.

and he was burning through cash to keep filling in the holes that he was creating. that is one of the fundamental aspects atof this lawsuit, is that he was lying about how much cash he had on hand. he was appropriating other peoples cash, basically to fill in that hole and make it look like he had more than he did. and the attorney general found that he would have been cash flow negative in 2006, not cash flow negative actually, cash negative. he wouldn't have any cash at all. >> -- can you try that again, without -- >> it [laughter] he would've had no money. >> he would've had no money. and so that would be that for him, because? >> well first of, all he would not have been able to keep all of his businesses open. he would've had to shrink even more. and i think that's what's happening behind the scenes here. as part of the ill gotten gains here are the sales of assets. donald trump has been shrinking for the last few years, in terms of sthis businesses, in order to generate cash to fill the holes that his poor judgments have made another businesses. >> and then you go to repayment.

i just mentioned this earlier, but i want to get a read from the actual ruling, and put together this piece. the judge talks about how just because you just -- doesn't mean you are u off the hook legally. time, total repayment of loans, the judge writes, does not extinguish the harm that the next room of lenders to re-seem -- right and might not be so lucky. as for the independent monitor, which is trump's new business boss, he says this monitor shall continue for a period of no coless than three years. the duties can be enhanced, and observations indicate more oversight might be required. where does that all fit into, again your picture of the business? >> well a picture of the business is, talking to people who have worked in and around him for the last 40 years, there was literally no one in that office who knew which businesses were performing and which we're losing money, except him allen weissenberg his accountant there. a very closely held thing. and so, donald trump, the idea that there is going to be someone overseeing him, someonee telling of no, you can't do, ll that no you can't do, that someone who is going to hold

him to normal business ne scrutiny, is i think a monumental blow to his ego. and -- >> and how it runs. and you got to remind folks i mean, how does what you just described, three people no other d,key stuff. how would that describe to an average, not tosuper clean, but average publicly traded company? >> there is no power level for that at all. right i mean sometimes i think about, you listen ito an earnings call from a corporation from a ceo, and the way they iodescribed their businesses this segment is underperforming, sithis segment is foover performing. we are going to re--- over here, the secular trends in industries hethat -- were donal trump assembled his businesses by going lethrough life saying, like to golf, i'm going to bite golf courses. if somebody wants me to put my name on a hotel, i'm going to put my name on a hotel. it was really -- just whatever was his fancy at the moment. and you see that in his balance. sheets >> and i got a quick, only if t you are going to get. but it has never stopped before. that would be like bill kristol

just only investing in crater r books in d.c.. because he loves books and he loves -- >> rather than having say, a balanced portfolio. >> i -- how do you know about my investments in the? bookstores >> -- yap, books are the future. well, i'm going to show you one more thing, which is that the trump deposition, and then i want bill onto lean on the -- which is on the one hand, the trial is about lies, a crime the fraud is, and that's been now proven and documented, unless it overturned on appeal, there you have it. and trump is known for his lies. some of his supporters, i've heard directly will say well, he is good at, so what is the difference? and it's the whole thing. and then this weird things happens were sometimes, he is blurting total troops, right. and the way he talks about these financial statements, which again and publicly held company, there are lawyers, they are mpcfos, there are rule this is not how they are spoke is fair to ink it say. here is trump in abhis deposition. >> i never felt that, these statements will be taken very

seriously. because you open it up, and at the beginning of the statement, you read a page and a half of stuff saying pgo get your own accounting, go get your own this go get your own. that g >> so why did you get these statements prepared? >> i would say more foe are maybe myself. >> i mean russ, that may very well be true. or at least true in the sense that he is completely dismissive of this as a rule based thing. >> yeah, i mean, it's hard to untangle all of that. i think he does do it for himself, because he k needs to feel good ecabout himself, and that is the primary way he does, it that is one way of looking at donald trump, it's inescapable. but on the factual basis of this, he signed loaned documents to get all this s money, same on -- it really comes down to two months -- i am do50 million, dollars and in liquid cash sitting. current and i have two and a half billion dollars in assets sitting around. and he promised to sign a

certification every year, that he met both those standards. and every year h it got harder do, and they are moving money around, they are appropriating other funds, they are ignoring restrictions heon the properties they have, that will diminish the value of those properties. they are committing fraud every year, aat an increasing pace, a order to keep making those thresholds. and so, that's really a very disingenuous way to do, it those were very important things he was doing. >> you know listening -- to one thing occurs to me, if trump is short of incash, which it will if this judgment is upheld. and then you know how you can get in on -- the saudi sovereign flood can, quote in vest -- in the trump organization. so putin -- can decide you know, i think that's really, let's throw my company, k there were going to put a billion dollars in and let the trump people figure out dohow to use it. i mean, i think the possibility, it's not like donald from hasn't done that thing kind of, where iti believ so, the degree to which we have now seen even more possibilities for corruption,

and not iejust on a national, scale but an international scale. and as such as the donors. i mean, if you are some pro trump multi, multi billionaire you know, i -- buy an equity investment, right -- trump's going >> to your point is that. >> half of the billion, i -- guess >> your point being that half a billion dollar hole, at a time when he is running for office in this desperate shape, and has 50 million in legal fees, is something hathat could creat more corruption risk? >> yeah. i mean, if i could say, so it's already there. this is already happening. one of the things that we can read from his tax returns is that he, there was a big swell in memberships at mar-a-lago, after mhe was elected, right. he started collecting for exponentially more, and initial membership fees. five $6 million a year. he had never really taken distributions and money out of that business. right, and he started doing that. and over the course of the few years, he took almost $20 million out of, that that was really just from his increased membership fees. so you don't need to pay him a bribe and a paper bag, you can do it seems like a legitimate

business transaction. and have that happen. >> i'm nsgoing to take our firs break with us for the. we've got a great panel, uwe'v got a lot of news coming out of this, loincluding the other pie of, this the money man who actually went to jail, allen weisselberg. we have wsome of those experts from this ruling, and a lot more when we come. back this ruling, and a lot more when we come. back and a five dollar footlong cookie. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. order one with your favorite subway series sub today. (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. order one with your favorite so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. - i got the cabin for three days. it's gonna be sweet! what? i'm 12 hours short. - have a fun weekend.

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connected you are. everyone must play by the same rules. >> attorney general letitia james, with the best day of her year, maybe her entire tenure in office, with this big win on a very big case, the penalty she just won against defendant trump. now i told you we've been going through different piece of this over the course of the hour. and, now we turn to a another important one. it might not be as prominent as donald trump, but it is someone who basically went to jail for trump or financial crimes. this case of course was civil. so that means it was only going to be a fine. how big? well, now we know, approaching half -- a. the former trump cfo, allan weissenberg -- one of the top chief financial officers of the trump organization's, was found liable today for a new million dollar fine, and barred from being a leader in new york business for three years. he's also permanently barred from financially controlling any company in new york. now, weisselberg was famously marched in handcuffs into jail, because of his separate and related, but criminal,

proceeding where he pled guilty to tax fraud. he is all over today's -- decision. the judge found the trump organization -- admitted that weisselberg on more than one occasion asked him to commit tax fraud. i mean that alone, just imagine there's a lot going on, but if you just imagine that alone was about some other politician. some republican, or barack obama. that guy goes to jail, the guy works for the politician the former president in this case. and then the guy is caught, in another judgment asked people hey, come do crime with me. now later in this same decision, the judge notes weisselberg was aware of the negative cash flow. one of those trends we heard earlier in the night. the -- two prepare a document containing a series of, now these are lies, but in legal speak, they are called implausible assumptions. to generate $26 million of net operating income. weisselberg, meddling with the evaluation of the crown drew -- in sorting a top finance

official, to quote remove the management fees for the net operating expenses, even though they were an expense. again, a convoluted way of saying blatantly lying to make money. we are back with our entire investigative panel here, of experts. i go to first, because both in accounting, and in law, something we collectively know a little bit about, there's a lot of diplomacy, there's a lot of jargon, there's a lot of fancy terms. i say lie, and i would have said it before the case was proven. but we had a summary judgment on one set of issues, and now we have the judicial findings on the set of issues. and they find financial lies, knowing and willful. plus, a conspiracy to try to get more people to commit tax fraud. then i something i can say is according to the courts, some of those other people didn't join westberg and his tax fraud. that is the nice thing i can say. but again, when you look at that documentation, what does it tell you about sort of the standard, daily life of working in that office? was it more like a big financial firm, like a bank.

or was it more like an under the table operation? >> i think much more like an under the table operation, right. these are very simple principles. you lineup the expenses on one side of the street, and the revenues on the other side, and then you come to -- leftover, or that you are sure. if and they didn't like what the result was, right. so they just pulled out pieces of it to make it look better. and the way properties are valued is you essentially divide that revenue, that extra revenue, that extra money at the end, by a certain capitalization rate. it's called, to come up with the value for the property. so they are literally just playing with the underlying figures of this thing, in a really doesn't. -- again to meet that two and a half billion dollar threshold every year, that they were having a lot of trouble. getting >> yeah, i want to look at why this may matter, and there's a lot going on. i am just going to assign positions. so it's like law school, christy. i mean i'm going to give you it matters. and dale i'm going to give you maybe it doesn't matter, it doesn't break for the. which doesn't mean you are committed to this for life, just for the beach. but i'm going to show you

something we put together today, because i was talking. again, i like to be transparent i was talking to the great team of journals i work with saying, how does this contrast to the other stuff? and people are tired and there's legal news every day. and so, we put together just how this broke across the country. and i can tell, you the fact that donald trump is speaking on, and that it is so much money, there are ways that it measurably might matter. but here is how it played out across the day today. >> it is a big number, it is a staggering number. in fact, it is a record number. >> judge arthur and rhonda said that donald trump is liable for 350 plus million dollars. >> this is a major gut punch, as we all well know, to donald trump, due to his legacy. >> it's gotta be tough to change, here if this ends up actually not being overturned on appeal. >> to even say it's a body blow would be an understatement. >> i mean, this is all about donald. trump the difference being, this is really bad news for him. >> his -- gun everything short of ordering that frumpy thrown into a wood chipper.

the size of this fine, and the level of sanctions here, it is breathtaking. >> so this is really a decision that will cause a lot of pain. >> kristie, how does it matter? >> i think it matters and a lot of ways. i mean, donald trump's whole images about being this incredible businessman. and also, very tied up in being all about new york. and the symbol of new york and wall street, thriving. and this really puts the lie to that, and shows that no in fact, his company was a mess. and not just was, is currently a mess. that is why this independent monitor has been extended for three years, because she put out a report just a few weeks ago, that there are all kinds of errors put in their financials. there are all kinds of inconsistencies and problems in their disclosures. and so now, not only does he need to monitor, they are actually going to for the first time have a compliance officer. they don't have a compliance department at this company. and so he is going to have babysitters. the person who has the art of

the deal now needs a babysitter to basically go through and make sure that they are doing things appropriately and reporting appropriately. i think it just totally, totally changes his image. >> and bill, why would one argue that it doesn't matter that much? >> you know in 2016, -- for the failing efforts to stop trump for the republican nomination, before he got it wrapped. up and one thing the signal across was the trump university. stuff so you reported on, it -- which is an, absolute defrauding -- total calm, man defrauding people who didn't know better, people who didn't really understand what they were sending in their checks for, promised things he didn't deliver, et cetera. those are just many trump businesses that are like that, the ones that were consumer facing so to speak. so he's funding, it never got -- any of those. since he is a couple of -- you to not, to sound like some new left-wing bill kristol but, shouldn't he, he is defrauding deutsche bank here, which is not really i mean. deutsche bank and take care of itself, they have lawyers you know. and the poor schmucks who sent in these 22 >> -- this is going to get you

a great job, they seem to have not gotten much protection from the legal system. so if i wanted to be slightly anti capitalist, and the legal system -- but more importantly, more importantly, it didn't work at all. we had good ads, we put up these ads in primary states. the trump university stuff, it's really outrageous. and their people. >> so you're saying it doesn't always break through, just because it should? >> exactly. >> back in a moment with more of the beat, weekend. t with mo of the beat, weekend. my daughtr gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on y to theazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are -- exactly like me? i know, right? well, cherish your friends and loved ones. let's roll, daddio! let's boogie-woogie!

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lawyer in charge, it disqualifies her whole office. the case would then be reassigned to another -- who would have the ability to continue with the case exactly as it, is make major changes adding or dot dropping charges or defendants. or, that new prosecutor could, quote, even drop the case altogether, as the new york times explains. and we are joined now by the former head of the doj criminal division, allegedly -- -- former at -- civil prosecutor, and civil rights attorneys. she is back with, us as mandy rory, who has direct experience having represented a different trump codefendant in this rico case. hello to all of you. leslie, i was just reminding viewers what the times and others have said about how far this could go. i mean, we are not just talking about a fiery hearing with interesting testimony. we are talking about a process that could remove the prosecutor of the office, or handed off to somebody who might have a different view of the facts and drop the case. what do you think is important legally about today's hearing?

>> there's a big difference between showing maybe poor judgment, and showing something that requires disqualification. and i think that as your guests have said, there clearly are some factual issues that need to be delved into and are being delved into today. but i don't know that we have really advance the ball too much towards disqualification. obviously, the judge will be the finder of fact in a way, of who he thinks is being honest and who is not. but, i think that there are quite a few hurdles that have to be overcome here for the defense to actually disqualify fani willis's office. >> and leslie, take a look at this exchange about, as mentioned, the travel which relates to money, and whether they are making a point here or not. >> that you roughly shared travel correct? >> yes ma'am. okay, so this -- travel -- >> she did. >> and where did you deposit the money she reimbursed?

you >> owe, she didn't give me any change. >> you don't have a single, solitary deposit slip, to corroborate or support any of your allegations that you were paid by mrs. willis in cash, do you? >> no sir. >> not a single, solitary one? >> not a one. >> for the judge, is that why the questioning accomplished anything? or no, leslie? >> so i think it could accomplish something, if the defense has evidence to the contrary. so if, for example, there are records, and they have, them or they are able to get them, that reflect that these witnesses are not being candid, that would have consequences. but then i think that the fact that there is maybe no evidence of the money changing hands by itself is kind of a meaningless fact, unless there is some evidence suggesting that the that is actually not true. >> each of you have drawn our attention to the law, and what

the issues are. and even though manny, at least in who he's represented, may come at it with a different present -- each of you have been more narrow in the line of questioning today, which at times was just all over the place. to a casual observer, they might say what is going on in atlanta? manny, this is however still planned as a trial of a former president. each of these trials will be a first impression, that's why the supreme court is reviewing the federal one. we got the news today, in a couple days, that the new york when his first set for the first time, criminal trial on march 25th. and i'm curious what you think, having been so close to this, about the real issues of having a real authoritative, independent process, if we have to put politicians on trial, and we've got plenty of governors and non-presidents on trial. and the noise and the trump enis of it all, which seems to kind of get kicked up regardless. and we certainly don't have a system where we reward, i hope i, think you would agree, ten dentists liars and smear jobs,

and propaganda. and say oh, this is going to be hard, because we want to make it so difficult. i say that by way of introduction to some of the headlines, because people have been watching out the past few minutes, they have seen some of this with their own eyes. people can make of it what you will. as leslie reminds us, it is a very high bar to disqualify. but look at these headlines. the a bars with lawyers seek removal. d.a. fani willis lashes out for witnesses, as judge considers whether to disqualify. willis takes the stands, she fights to stay on the case. and some other headlines, salon called it a literal so proper today. trump case in big trouble, because the -- contradicted d.a. willis's relationship claim. rolling stone calling this a messy scandal. again, messi may not be the legal bar. but that is part of what people are hearing out in the country, and on it goes. how should we make sense of that, when any trial of a former president is going to raise larger questions of how the public understands what is happening? >> you want a clean trial, and have confidence in the trial

and all the parties involved. i understand what trump does, i'm not here to defend it, i am not maga, i am the exact opposite, frankly. but when the dea sounds like donald trump, and has been calling peoples liars and names and yelling and screaming in court, it is very problematic to me. and we sort of lose focus on -- . i thought the lawyers ask -- for no -- but we would go on these rambling -- champagne, or i think it was vodka or something like that for about five minutes. we talked about that, the fact that i've gotten $15,000 in cash, and it's just for my hard sweat and tears, and not understanding where a person who's been ade for four years without getting 15,000 in cash, and not exactly know how to account for it. none of it by itself means anything, if the other -- has clearly said. but it sure seems suspicious. if this was my client, as a defendant on the stand, the prosecutor would flay that person, saying you're doing everything in cash because you don't want a record. it is those kinds of influences that come up the, and make a trumpy case even trump here, because the other side is doing the same thing. and i just wish we could get a

clean trial a fair, trial and have this thing over with and behind us, and let's move on to the next election. but the d.a.'s doing this is going to drag it out. the georgia case is going to happen before the election if ever. and you have a history here of bad decision-making. and the reason you want to fight hard here is if that standard of being -- an appearance of impropriety, maybe not quite at the prejudice, point but -- is pretty lax about. that if the appearance is there, you should pull yourself out and let other people in the office handled. it if you voluntarily just withdrew and said i'm going to let the other folks handler,, and i've got -- we can have a clean trial and spend the next. month because somebody is going to -- and we are never going to get to trial. >> let me take this back to. leslie i mean, part of what leslie is saying, many, is that the way that she conducted her testimony didn't help. would you have him advised her to testify today? they could have continued defending her side of the story, without her taking a stand at all? >> so i don't know what i would

have advised, because i don't know enough about the circumstances and the actual facts. but, i can see why she decided to testify, because i could see why or, perhaps others agree with that decision. and then because it does kind of -- for an explanation from her. and i think that is what she was trying to do. and i do agree that she was a bit emotional, which i could totally understand. but that is not usually a good way for a witness to be. and i also agree with your other guest, who said this is, at minimum, it is a huge distraction from the substance of this case. >> yeah, well it's interesting to hear so many acclaimed legal voices hit these points. because one thing i mentioned, perhaps not with the same position and erudition as each of you. but i mentioned at the top of the hour that both things could be true. that could be a messiness and unfairness too much of, this and that is going to be the muck that spins around, and is on the internet. and then there could be the other thing that is true, which is, did they find the best,

crisp way to calmly deal with this or not? and that is separate from the very high standard of a legal disqualification of a.d.a.. i want to thank manny and maya, -- and. leslie, please stay with me. because the other story that was going to be the biggest story to all of this went down was, the first ever scheduled beginning of a criminal trial of a former president, of donald trump. we've got that today, it is for next month. we have that story, next. next month. we have that story, next. wit one pi a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium.

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the new york judge has rejected trump's efforts to delay. and scheduled this criminal trial to begin next month march 25th. and this will become now the first criminal trial of an ex president in u.s. history. then your case is not the most serious, it doesn't carry the most prison time, but it is the one for various reasons, including perhaps it's local simplicity, has not been caught up in federal appeals and supreme court calais. the trial is about alleged crimes that relate to payments donald trump made, potential

lies on business records, and whether they were in furtherance of another new york crime. it is one of many felony charges, over 90, that he faces. the new york trial though, now has a confirmed start date. none of the others do. leslie caldwell is back with me, and we can see there the calendar. leslie, the doj case also has some news today, that is the trump coup trial, we saw in the supreme court has now gotten the briefs and the responses. and they will make up their mind over whether to review, slow down, or fast-track that case. with the new york case going first, what do you think about that? i think you and i, if we talk six months ago or whatever, wouldn't have known that one would go first, and don't think anyone would say it is the most serious. >> i think that's absolutely right. and i think that, it's in some ways unfortunate that that case is going first. because that case really had to do with. i mean, the allegation is that the former president, who was campaigning at the time, committed campaign finance

violations to essentially pay off stormy daniels, and then hiding the fact that he had asked michael cohen to pay it off, falsely documented, and then repay it. so -- in the campaign, -- and information. he did that as a candidate, the actions that were taken in connection with january 6th where taken as the president. even though he had lost the election, he was still sitting in the white house. and i think that that case is more consequential. because when you are talking with the first criminal case ever against a former president of the united states, it seems more consequential for it to be a case that involves conduct, that took place while he was president. so, i think that that is, that is a view that i think is not unreasonable, that a case is more significant. now i think that, as you also said the -- potential penalties are much less severe than in the new york case. so i think there are reasons why. and the new york dea, to his

credit, has said all along the hubie willing to stand down until that case was tried. but now that there is no trial date for that case, it is difficult for him to continue taking that position. >> yeah, i am curious what you think this does to the atmospherics of the supreme court review. on paper, in theory, they just look at the legal issues and make a straight balls and strikes decision. but this is reality, and in reality, you've got to wonder whether the fact that there is already a criminal case coming, in some way, slightly diminishes the so-called first impression, oh my gosh, what are we going to do questions? because a lot of what the trump folks were arguing to the supreme court is hey, i know there is no immunity, and we all know there is no immunity legally. i guess you could create some. but nixon didn't think there was immunity,, yada-yada. but this is new, this is novel, you've got to at least review and slow it down, because it is so novel. but we live in a federalist

system where states and localities also try people. and how novel is it, i guess leslie, if while they are thinking about that in these coming weeks, a criminal trial of a former president is literally happening? >> and so i don't think it should really matter to the supreme court. the issues before them are really legal issues, they are not issues about the atlanta -- if a trial is already going on one dissed -- what is the rush? that's not really their decision. their decision. dayquil honey, the honey-licious, daytime, cougng, aching, stuffy head, fever, power through your day, medicine. (christina) with verizon business unlimited, cougng, aching, stuffy head, fever, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon.

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good evening and welcome to