ongoing talks between hostage families and the israeli government. the israeli government is pursuing its policy. unfortunately, i believe that the policy of moving forward solely by military action until such time as israeli soldiers knock on the door in some underground bunker and even released the hostages, that's kind of fantasy. at that point, all of the hostages will already be did. therefore, whether or not the ruling coalition likes or c understands it, there must be some kind of negotiated process in order to get the 133, we hope, hostages who are still there a home and alive on their to feed but ernot in boxes. there is no solely military

alternative. the hostage families, the vast majority of them, have been demanding f from our government that, in order to negotiate, we have to negotiate. you have to be in the same building as all of the negotiators are. you can't hold back our negotiators because the terms don't seem to make sense at that moment or don't accord with your -- i can tell you, i have lived with my family, my children and grandchildren, on the ilborder with gaza, less th a mile from khan younis, for the last 40 years. i have endured rounds of rocketing, mortar fire, attacks from hamas. we understand that hamas is a savage organization. october 7th shirt and certainly should approve that to the rest of the world. we y veare not negotiating with civilized human beings. that being the case, negotiations are the only way to get our loved ones home and to make israel hole again. we can't sacrifice these people a second time. october 2nd, excuse me, october

7th was a sacrifice of these people. the government wasn't there to protect us. these were civilians ripped from wetheir homes, ripped from their wives and grandparents, their children. we as a jewish state can be whole again only if these people come home alive. destroying hamas is a worthy goal but it must not be the only goal that the israeli government is seriously pursuing. >> jonathan, i know you and other family members with u.s. citizenship are part of a delegation pleading with u.s. lawmakers to help get these hostages released. what can the u.s. government do today? >> well, in truth, the u.s. government and its officials have been in touch with us since october 10th, in direct contact. i got the first phone call from the israeli embassy in tel aviv on october 10th. there has been serious and

transparent engagement with u.s. officials ever since. from all that i have learned, and the vast majority of people in congress from wall to wall, there is overwhelming support for getting the hostages released. there are different opinions about israel's conduct of the war and that's perfectly ly legitimate, but getting the hostages out seems to be a top to bottom consensus in the biden administration and in congress. i believe that this administration is really doing all that it can or nearly all of that it can and also using whatever leverage it has or believes agthat it has both wit israel and third parties. there may be a time and it may not be very far away when the biden administration is going to have to use additional leverage to get my own government, the israeli government, to agree to a

reasonable negotiated agreement to get the hostages home alive. >> jonathan whose son seguin is currently hostage, i admire the strength with which you are conducting this interview and yourself as you do whatever you can on behalf of your son. thank you ehso much for speakin with us. >> thank you for having me. >> as we are at the top of the hour, i want to bid you all a good ntday from the tom brokaw new center here in los angeles. we begin this hour with it breaking news from russia. hundreds ewarrested and detaine in new fallout following the death of russian opposition figure alexei navalny, a very strong critic of russian president vladimir putin. new questions today surrounding the location of navalny's remains. we're going to have a full report on that in just a few minutes for you. navalny's death brings some new urgency to capitol hill with a fair amount of bipartisan agreement that congress should act quickly to approve funding for ukraine's fight against putin. >> the idea that we are going

to walk away from ukraine, the idea that we are going to let nato split, is against the interest of the united states of america. it's about time we make sure that congress pass the legislation. >> i do think that there is an opportunity atwhen we get back washington to move this important aid package forward because it's so critical. if let every putin is a murderous thug, what he is doing and the atrocities and the work crimes in ukraine need to be responded to. >> trump on the campaign trail yesterday kept the focus on his legal troubles and his routine grievances. >> it's actually pretty amazing that he not only after making those comments would encourage putin to invade nato, but the fact that he won't acknowledge anything with navalny, he either sides with putin and thinks it's cool that putin killed one of his political opponents or he just doesn't

think it's that big of a deal, >> we have reporters and analysts in place covering all of this. >> these lunatic attorney general, did you ever see this attorney general? she's a lunatic working closely with a very bad judge. >> we have reporters and analysts in place covering all of tethese new developments eve going to begin with nbc's julian franklin detroit. what are you hearing from a voters? is the state gop party ready for this primary after all of it changeup and leadership changes? >> let's start with trump, alex. the former president was on the ground erhere in battleground michigan at last night railing against a new york civil fraud decision, criticizing the attorney general, the judge, calling the entire case a total sham. he also spoke out against fulton county district attorney fani willis, accusing her of benefiting financially from her relationship with cithe special

prosecutor nathan wade. he also said there is a double standard between his classified documents case and president biden's classified documents case. i spoke aswith voters last nigh at the trump rally. i want you to hear from them about what they feel these legal cases are doing to the election. take a listen. >> that was a witch hunt. that was actually a sham placed by the biden administration to be able to actually try to defame our president. they were trying to defame president trump, trying to get his money, trying to take us money from him. i think we have a strong base. i think our base is stronger than ever right now. it actually solidifies our base right now. >> that is representative of so

many of trump's most loyal supporters, alex. they say that they see these legal cases as nothing more than a witch hunt. moving over to the michigan gop side of things, they have been plagued by major infighting among factions of the state party. there are now two people both claiming to be state party chair. pete offshore has now been backed by the rnc and endorsed by president trump. kristina karamo, who has held the position, is not giving it up. she says it's not up to the rnc to decide. she has also maintain control of the michigan gop email accounts. this is all causing major confusion heading into the states caucuses on march 2nd. alex? >> okay, julian frenkel with a report from detroit, thank you, julian. i want to bring in senior national politics reporter jonathan allen and criminal attorney and msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. welcome. jonathan, trump was back on the campaign trail last night. he's expected, of course, to

appeal the new york civil fraud trial decision. that appeals process could take several years to solve. what do you think happens in the interim? what are you looking to see in the coming days? >> i think he's going to have to make some preparations for making these payments. obviously, there is interest attached to the judgment. i do think that we, generally speaking, the media admitted a big story that happened this week. it could be very good news for e donald trump financially which is that, basically, a merger was improved for his truth social company. at the court stop for us, that would be worth $4 million to him. he can't sell that stock for six months after the merger actually goes through, but i think he will have access to enough money to pay these judgments. the question is how much it actually pinch or hurt him. >> well, that is a turnaround. at one point, it was hanging by

a thread. that's not all that long ago. what about you, danny? is there any way trump has this penalty lowered on appeal? >> there is a way. it may not be likely. there are a couple different paths for trump on appeal. he can challenge the decision itself, the legality of it. you can raise an issue of law. he can resurrect his argument that there were no victims and that erthe law should require some kind of victim instead of a bank that claims that is no victim. that may or may not be successful. another risk sometimes with getting judgments or verdicts which are just so big is that the appellate court might reduce it on appeal. that's always a possibility although not particularly likely. justice and laurent supported his decision with real numbers just as he did his summary judgment decision as well. >> you know, danny, the judge backed off ruling for trump to immediately dissolve or sell his assets, for a? as cnbc has

written, judge arthur engoron vacated his own prior directive to cancel business certificates, meaning he's no at longer pushing what some legal experts described as a corporate penalty for the trump organization. why did the judge decide to do that? >> two possibilities. throughout the course of the trial, . the judge may have bee open to the testimony and maybe changed his view of the case since he entered a summary judgment. he may have been swayed by some of the evidence. another reason might have been making otthis more appellate proof, kiin other words, by reducing the punishment, he makes this a more palatable decision to an appeals court. had he kept on with the corporate death penalty, as it is called, an appeals court, the appellate division second department or highest court in new york, the scourt of appeal may have concluded that this was just too harsh a penalty. again, not particularly likely, but this is a unique case without a lot of precedent. certainly, these cases are

brought, but this kind of case under these facts is somewhat unique, so there might be a possibility on appeal of attacking that itcorporate deat penalty. that's probably why justice engoron backed off of that while still imposing very significant monetary penalties. >> one more for you, danny, because i want to ask about the fulton county d.a. fani willis's testimony last week in that evidentiary hearing along with her father and former georgia governor roy barnes, among others. did you hear evidence that would preclude a conflict of interest there? >> i think they will listen special prosecutor nathan wade may have a staved off any challenge to throw them off the case due to a conflict of interest. i don't think that d.a. willis testified particularly well judging her by a standard of the rules of evidence and the way witnesses are supposed to testify in court, but if you are judging her by getting her political message out and making a statement and sending a message, then it seems that

her testimony resonated quite well with people who watched it. it may not really matter that she did not exactly follow the rules of evidence the way you would expect an elected d.a. to follow them, but ultimately her testimony and nathan wade's testimony stare consistent as t whether or not she received benefits, whether or not she reimbursed weighed. the fact that they are consistent may not mean they are credible, but that is up to judge ibmcafee to decide. some of his rulings implied that he is recognizing that the defense hasn't really come up with any evidence to counter weighed and willis's positions t that she reimbursed wait for all travel and vacations. >> again, this was an evidentiary hearing. back to you, jonathan. as the trump team is preparing for the start date of his first criminal trial on march 25th, it could last about six weeks. how will he end the party juggle super tuesday and presumably becoming the presidential nominee amid all of these encourt battles?

>> i mean, it's really an amazing question, alex. it's one of the things that, to the extent that there are folks who are staying up late at night and kept up in the wee hours, they are figuring out how to juggle all of these things. how many defendants are facing four criminal trials in separate jurisdictions and all of the civil suit at the same time? forget the atfact that he is running for president of the united states. what he has been seen to do just this far is to combine these two things into one where he uses his court dates as a political weapon to rally his base. that's what he did in recent days and throughout the course of this campaign. i expect he will continue to do that. if onhe wins court cases, it wi be because he was gone after unfairly and justice has prevailed. if he is convicted or a civil judgments against him, he will argue that everything is unfairu and he will rally his base around the idea that he is a victim.

i think he looks at it as a potentially political win when to have all of these court cases going on. we will have to see if the voters feel the same way. >> unless he is convicted, that could change things. okay, uljohn and danny, good to see you both. thank odyou so much. new questions following the w death of alexei navalny. what to make of the timing? is whvladimir putin's grip on power vulnerable in anyway? we're back in 60 seconds. 60 se for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. wanna know why people are getting a covid-19 shot? i'm turning the big seven-o and getting back on the apps. ha ha ha. variants are out there... and i have mouths to feed. big show coming up, so we got ours and that blue bandage? never goes out of style. i prioritize my health... also, the line was short. didn't get a covid-19 shot in the fall? there's still time. book online or go to your local pharmacy.

subway's tuna is off the hook! it's 100 percent wild-caught. this tuna is fishing for a compliment and i'm taking the bait. alright, i'm all punned out. i'm o-fish-ally finished. get it? try subway's tasty tuna today. 15 -- it's just in, the widow of alexei navalny will meet with foreign ministers tomorrow in brussels as she demands the kremlin release her husband's body. also today, russian police are attempting to disrupt memorials for navalny by moving flowers and arresting mourners. nbc's matt wagner is following these developments from moscow. has the kremlin given any indication that it is willing to hand over navalny's body?

>> cenk you, alex. it's a good question, there's a lot going on right now. in it's totality, there is an apparent effort. i think we can say this. they attribute this to whatever -- at least in the near term. presumably, legally, the russian government is going to have to hand his body over to either navalny's aging mother, who is still in russia, actually running around the arctic right now trying to find her son's body, and his lawyers. there's not a lot of people still in russia in his circle. navalny's mother has been told sometime this week after state officials have had additional times to conduct unspecified tests. we've heard conflicting accounts of what the attributed cause of death is. the official statement from the

prison service said it was a blood clot, saying he dropped dead on a walk. his mother reported over the weekend that she was told sudden death syndrome was the word from prison officials. a game is being played. what exactly the outcome will be we will see this week. it is safe to say that a message is being sent in the way that russia is handling this. alexei navalny is already dead. this is sort of torture, us i would imagine, for the family. it's meant to send a message not to the family but to russians, russian voters, potential russian opposition voters where just about a month away from a russian election where putin is essentially running unopposed in a meaningful sense. the message to russians and killing navalny is that hope is dead and there's only vladimir putin. this sends a message to the west as well. it will be very interesting in the coming weeks to see how that message resonates with western ears that are perhaps sympathetic to putin. >> i have to say, it offers all

the more admiration for those 400 or so mourners of alexei navalny who have been detained after bringing flowers and trying to make makeshift memorials for him. you know now that they are on the radar of russian authorities. anyway, matt wagner, thank you so much from london. joining me now is former nato supreme allied commander and chairman of wesley cake arcana socialist general wesley clark. welcome. it's been a few years but i'm glad to see you, sir. i want to get your thoughts on the death of alexei navalny. his death came well global leaders attended the munich security conference. russia, coincidentally, or maybe not, launched its invasion of ukraine just after that conference two years ago. i want to play some conversations that i had with former russian ambassador michael mcfaul yesterday on navalny. here it is. >> they tried to poison him once. they failed. he was medevacs out. he recovered in germany.

he made the conscious decision to go back knowing full well that he would probably go to prison for and that he may be killed. mr. putin killed this man but he did not kill his ideas. i have no doubt that one day navalny's ideas, ideas about freedom, liberty, democracy true to us will out live putin. >> general, there are mounting questions. the resistance to send more assistance to ukraine, donald trump encouraging the invasion of a nato country -- it all has many wondering if we are at a pivotal moment where faltering support for nato could lead to russia invading other european countries. it is a lot to be concerned about. to what level are you worried about all of this? >> i'm quite concerned, alex, because i do think we are at a

pivotal moment. it is the fact that ukraine is falling back on the ground. since october, we have not been able to have something. we are still providing a little bit. we don't have the ammunition, the 155, that they need. the guns are there. they are sitting silent. they will probably be withdrawn. i hope they are. i hope we haven't lost them to the russians. it is a catastrophe, really, and it has brought about a few people from the republican party listening to donald trump. he was elected with vladimir putin's help in 2016. it is a national tragedy. it undercuts americas credibility worldwide. the republican leadership has to step up for america like they have traditionally. >> general, your reaction to navalny's death? i know many people were heartbroken, myself included.

>> yeah, he was a real hero, alex. we never expected anything else. this is a harless regime. the russian people have an incredible tolerance for a dictatorship and authoritarianism. putin has just ground them down. reporters have been thrown out of windows and shot. anyone who disagrees is in danger in that country. he has control. [inaudible] 400 demonstrators were arrested. russians are different than people anywhere. if the forces are against you, stay home. who knows it. this is repression. it's torture. it's murder. it has kept him in power. >> but not too long ago, sir,

flat amir putin seemed vulnerable. ukraine was successful at holding back russia's invasion. the wagner group nearly pulled off a coup inside the kremlin. with russia gaining momentum in ukraine, you have thousands of russians being prosecuted for criticizing the war. a pretty much feels like what you are saying. he has control over russia. that was tightened again. do you think he has vulnerabilities? what are they. >> i think the vulnerability really comes from pressure on the battlefield. we are -- giving ukraine not only the ammunition but the united states and a nato saying, look, we are not here for us long as it takes. we are here for ukraine it evict russia from ukraine. back to the international recognized legitimate borders. the united states needs to declare that as its policy. nato will follow. the assistance will happen.

putin still thinks he's going to win because he still thinks he has the united states and nato afloat. he does a few nuclear threats. he moves some weapons around. there is a story about a russian space weapon. people are -- maybe, he thinks, i don't know. he doesn't think he's going to lose. >> alluding to russian space weaponry, we should remind our viewers of something that president biden has said offers no kind of concern to americans at this point. it would actually be something that would target the satellite destruction in space. he added that there is no proof that they are going forward with this plan at this point. if that were to happen, if there was satellite a structured in space, what kind of chaos with that create? >> alex, it's a very strange thing, what i was just saying, to be honest with you, because we know that when you explode a nuclear weapon in space, it affects the earth and it releases an electromagnetic pulse which hits the ground.

depending on how big the weapon is, how high it is, sure, it will affect satellites, but it will blow electric circuits all over the united states if it goes off over the united states. it will destroy our electric power grid. without the power grid, 300 million americans are going to be without food, water transportation, communications, hospitals, medical care, whatever. it will blow anything that has chips in it. when john kirby said it will not cause any destruction on the ground, it may not by blast or heat cause any destruction. if that weapon is in the right place to destroy satellites, it may cause an electromagnetic pulse which reaches the surface of the earth and causes enormous destruction to the electrical grid here in the united states. i'm quite concerned about it. >> apparently you are. it was all look for good reason, sir. general wesley clark, thank you so much. good to see you. thank you. coming up after the break, we're going to bring you the

very latest from minnesota where there has been a tragedy there today. two police officers were killed as well as a first responder. they were responding to a domestic dispute. we're going to take you there after the break. the break. the honey-licious, daytime, coughing, aching, stuffy head, fever, power through your day, medicine. you always got your mind on the green. not you. you! your business bank account with quickbooks money now earns 5% apy. (♪♪) that's how you business differently. intuit quickbooks. but st. jude has gotten us through it. st. jude is hope for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world.

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don't wait, call and switch today! approaching the bottom of the hour, with this breaking news from that deadly shooting in burnsville, minnesota. we have now learned the names of the police officers and first responders who were killed on-duty overnight in the early hours this morning. joining me now, nbc's george police. okay george what can you tell us? >> yeah alex we just got information within the last few minutes -- community mourning the loss of police officers paul and stranded matthew ruch, and the firefighter paramedic adam -- . around 1:50 today, police were called to this unit block or this neighborhood for a reporter with a domestic situation, where a man reported to be armed, barricaded with family members we are told, after arriving the situation escalated into gunfire with responders -- who were killed

by the gunman during the response. one other police officer, sergeant adam -- was identified as injured, and transported to a hospital, or he is believed to have not a life-threatening injury. now approximately around eight central time the suspect was reported to be dead. later in the morning, other family members left the home and are now safe we are told. there is no ongoing threat, residents are being asked to listen to public safety personnel, and to basically let authorities do their job until further notice. a little more additional details on those heroes -- joined the burnsville police department in august 17th, as a community service officer. he was reported to officer in july of 19. he was part of the departments mobile command staff team. -- and other training units -- 27 joined the police department in april 2020, he was part of the departments crisis negotiating team, and was a physical evidence officer -- in. and has been a firefighter paramedic there since february 2019. some other detail, alex, that we are getting now. the minnesota bureau of

criminal apprehension, bca, is investigating the incident. and they are saying that the person responsible is dead. there's actually a four pm vigil that apparently has now been scheduled here in town. and we are awaiting more details at a press conference at five pm eastern time here. so what other information we are learning at this hour? we spoke to someone who is actually in that neighborhood, who had heard some of that gunfire -- and describe some of that scene for us this morning. take a listen. >> but, about 5:40 this morning, there were a lot of sirens coming outside of my window. so, i opened the window to get a gauge of where they were heading. and, i heard a few loud bangs, maybe a minute apart. and, i am not sure if those are gunshots. they might have been tear gas or flash bangs or something. but, i hopped on the police scanner for dakota county, which burnsville is in.

and, yeah, i heard reports of shots fired near burnsville parkway. >> yeah alex, and we're actually to starting to hear more and more of these witness accounts about the shooting. they're obviously, we now know the names of those heroes who died in this tragedy. one additional first responder that was injured, expected to survive we are told. and again, that community vigil, and again that shooter we are told now dead. more information to come during that press conference. and reaction of course coming in from law enforcement, from around the country, as well as the governor and representatives of minnesota, alex. >> yeah, that's going to be about an hour and a half from now. what a tragic day there. thank you so much george -- with the latest. joining me now, democratic congressman maxwell -- of florida. maxwell sits on the house oversight committee. it is awfully good to have you here congressman. this shooting, it comes after a rally yesterday in kansas city, the call to end gun violence. following that mass shooting there last week. the shooting took place on the sixth anniversary of the parkland school shooting. gun control was one of your

major campaign issues you may recall. are you and your colleagues doing enough to try to stop these shootings? what more can you do? how frustrated are you that more is not being done? >> well, thank you so much for having me on. you know, congress is not doing enough to stop these shootings. why? because they are still happening. i mean, we still live in a country where we lose 100 lives a day due to gun violence. the leading cause of death for children, and i always like to put it this way. if you are a parent, and god forbid your child were to die before the age of 18, the most likely reason would be because they were shot to death. that is a fact of life in this country right now. so we've got a lot of work to do. there's been good work that's been done, the bipartisan safer q&as act passed a few years ago. we've seen especially in big cities, that gun violence rates of michigan down a little bit. but we still have a lot of work to do. because behind every number, there is a human, there is a person. and, this is the reason i got involved in politics at the age of 15, because they didn't want to get shot in school. now remember congress -- and

the fight continues. >> you know, it's extraordinary i -- remember dropping my two kids off at school. and i would worry about whether they might get shot at school. i mean, it's just, it's a horrible way to have to live. let me go to what i mentioned earlier. as you sit on the oversight committee, where republicans have been leading the charge on the biden impeachment inquiry. now the fbi informant, whose claims about a multi million dollar bribery scheme involving the president and his son hunter, was charged with lying about it. so, are these charges enough to just put this investigation to rest? >> i believe so. i mean, the entire basis of the last over a year, on the house oversight committee, is -- using this person, who is a secret witness, and this witness, and then he lost -- he couldn't find him. this was the basis for every single of joe biden impeachment, and hunter biden hearing that we've had, that ended in complete chaos for the house gop. not just that, but now we've come to learn that not only did this guy completely fabricate

what he told the government, but it's enough of a fabrication that he is being charged with lying. so there's a lot of questions out here. number one, i think we have to immediately, i think -- immediately make a statement that says we are no longer going to pursue this, because the basis of our investigation comes from a complete fraud. and the other thing i'm curious about, not to belabor the point. i mean, did jared comer know about this? did any other house republicans know about it? i don't know i don't really trust these folks, because they have shown that they are not good actors. and so the house oversight committee is an incredibly powerful and important committee, that is supposed to ensure that the federal government is working for the people. but -- marjorie taylor greene, all of these people have taken and weaponize the committee to try to impeach joe biden for i guess being a father? and so either way, this is one other thing, in a whole line of failures and embarrassments that the republican house conference has had over the last year. >> you know, just the other

day, you, the youngest congressman, defended president biden. saying instead of focusing on his age, you are looking at his positive agenda and record. your fellow progressive congresswoman -- rashida tlaib is taking a different approach. let's take a look at that. >> it is also important to create a voting bloc, something that is a bullhorn to say, enough is enough. we don't want a country that supports the wars and bombs and destruction. we want to support life. we want to stand up for every single life killed, in gaza. this is the way you can raise our voices. don't make us even more invisible. right now, we feel completely neglected, and just unseen by our government. if you want us to be louder, then come here and vote -- . >> so, there you heard. it she is urging michigan voters to vote against biden in the primaries. what are your thoughts on that? >> yeah well i mean, you just said, it's for the primaries. and i think that's a very

important distinction that i've seen a lot of people kind of falsely reporting on this. and she is urging that for the primaries, and there are a group of people and a movement pushing for people to do that in michigan. i have a little bit of a difference of opinion of what we should use these primaries for. but at the end of the day, there is frustration within our party, and across the country and globally, around what we are seeing going on in gaza. i have called for a cease-fire, i think it is really important. but what i will say is, the work that i have seen the president do on this, i know he cares about the issue. and when we come down to joe biden versus president trump, we have to think about this in the way of governance, right? i want to be able to do my job as a progressive to fight for the world that i believe. and i know that if i sent a letter, or if i give a call to a president biden, versus a president trump, the response is going to be a lot different. and i actually have a voice in this white house, versus the other one. so that is one of the many reasons that i am fighting to ensure that we reelect the president. because between these two

choices the choices symbol. we have someone who sent the i.r.a., the most money ever going towards the bible -- we just talked about gun violence. he created the first ever office of gun violence prevention. so you won't find me to be someone to dismiss or talk down on folks who have a difference of opinion, or who are using the political process the way they want to use. it that is what democracy is about. but i personally believe that as we come up to this election, we need to ensure that we retain and save our democracy, so that we can continue to fight for the progressive agenda that we believe in. >> so listen, you are a very busy guy, because you are also behind two major get out the vote efforts, setting up a latino war room using spanish and spanglish, in support of candidates in key congressional races. you are also hosting the mad soul music and arts festival in florida on march 2nd. so, tell us about these efforts? and are you focused on these areas because you think president biden and democrats are overall there in florida, your state? >> well, democrats are, we

didn't do too well last election cycle in florida. but we have always been a battleground state. i was actually just with the chair, nikki free, who has been the chair for the last year. and we've seen some great winds in the state of florida. so yes, we have vulnerability, yes there are problems with the democratic party that we need to fix. but we don't just fix it by tweeting about it and talking about it, we have to stack up as elected officials, and actually work towards. so i am really excited about the mad soul music and arts festival i'm hosting in my district. it is the first of its kind of music festival, and as working at combining music in the arts, which i am a musician, i love the, arts i love music. and also politics. and so we have folks -- like it's an amazing, amazing band coming from california to perform. representative aoc -- justin jones, and a lot of local artists and activists from here in central florida, to get people registered to vote, to get them engaged with local organizations. and also, help support some local work on lgbtq+ issues, abortion funds, and et cetera. so it's really just one big event to help support and get

people engaged in the political system. and folks want to help support us in that work, or they want to get tickets, they can go to matt sole fast, mad so fest.com, to support us. even if you can't make, it or if you want to come on out. >> you've got great energy. congressman maxwell frost, you have a green light to come on the show anytime. thank you so much. >> thanks for having me on. >> so, i have some many questions about the sneakers. how much can donald trump actually make on these? and is this a realistic way to put a dent in all of these legal bills. the man who literally wrote the book about trump and his ability to cash in on the presidency joins me, next. in o presidency joins me, next. ovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: leo learned that most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato

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the economy is simply not working for millions of hard you c working families.able with fewer medicines. they're working harder than ever and they still can't make enough to get by to afford food and medicine to even keep a roof over their heads. we need to build more housing that's truly affordable. we need to address this terrible epidemic of homelessness. we need to invest in good paying jobs, union jobs and investments in our future. this, this is why i'm running for the us senate. i'm adam schiff and i approve this message. donald trump's high top -- sneakers sold out less than a day, after the republican front runner for president used a stop on the campaign trail to hawk those almost $400. they are three 99. trump branded shoes, and the

sneaker con in philadelphia. the launch came a day after a devastating blow to his finances, when a new york judge ordered trump to pay 355 million plus interest, for lying about his wealth. for years, to secure a favorable loan. joining me now, david cay johnston, founder of d.c. reporter dot org, and coauthor of the big cheat, out donald trump fleeced america, and enriched himself and his family. it's always good to have you on the show. let's get into this because i've got to ask you about those golden shoes. are they any kind of a golden ticket for trump? i mean, is this a realistic way to put a dent in all of those legal bills? >> it's a way to divert attention, and show once again that donald trump is -- and has never been a billionaire. he sold out a small loan of these shoes, and there's no way he is going to put a dent in the total amount, that is already on the table. which comes to an interest more than half a billion dollars to e. jean carroll, and to the state of new york for its

persistent frauds. and there are more cases coming by police officers at the capitol, and others. >> you know, you are right, absolutely. we are not -- because we are so focused on all that is out there officially underway. but you are right. let's look a little bit more closely on the financial burden that donald trump is now facing with all of these legal fees and fines. we are going to look at the money that he owes, and this is what i'm going to have our viewers look at this wall here, and all the graphics panels. but here is the question i asked. on the witness stand last, year donald trump said he had a lot of cash. but do you think he is going to be able to come up with the more than half a billion dollars that he may owe as fast as the courts require? >> i think it's far more likely that donald will do the same thing that his unpaid lawyer, rudy giuliani did, and alex jones, the conspiracy theorists did. he will seek refuge in bankruptcy court. and well, i don't think that will save him from the judgments at the end of the

day, it certainly will delay them. and it will allow him to continue posing as a man worth, as he claimed when he announced in 2015, a man worth well north of ten billion dollars. >> how many times has he filed for bankruptcy? do you know off the top of your head? >> yeah i do. donald has never personally filed for bankruptcy. in 1990, thanks to the new jersey casino control commission, take his side against his bankers, he had the private equivalent of a bankruptcy and shed a billion dollars in debt. his publicly traded casino company went bankrupt four times when he was the -- he was then paid to go away. it went bankrupt two more times, and then it failed entirely. so this, if donald word -- this will be the first time he has actually filed bankruptcy. but it would delay everything, and that's donald's fundamental legal game, delay, delay, delay. and the second part of the game is accused law enforcement and

others who want to hold you to account. you are perfectly -- perfectly honest, everyone else is corrupt. >> yeah, absolutely. so under judge engoron's ruling, david, donald trump is going to be barred from running a business in new york for the next three years. how limiting do you expect that to be? who is going to keep his current business is operating? because neither of his two sons can do it for two years. >> well, that's effectively i think, going to turn to the function of the independent compliance monitor, or director, who the judge ordered to be in there in the business. any routine transactions will go on. meeting the weekly payroll, paying vendors for delivery -- wine to the restaurants, that will go on -- . but any significant transactions will have to be approved in advanced by both judge barbara jones, the retired jurist who was the monitor, and the day to day operations will all take place under the aegis of this independent person, who has yet to be -- . and this, for trump,

is complete humiliation. i mean, he claims to be a business genius, a, as i call it, a modern midas who turns everything he touches to gold. and that is just not the factual history of trump, he is a huge destroyer of wealth. >> look, this conversation proves you have a very closely examined trump's business acumen. how much of a reckoning is this for the former president, particularly with respect to the title of your book, which proves how closely you have watched him as well? it's called the big cheat, how donald trump fleeced america and enriched himself and his family. so put it in perspective. >> well, donald's entire life has been based on lying, denying, deceiving, cheating. that's why i call him the greatest con artist of the history of the world, cause he con his way all the way to the white house. he has a long history of not paying his workers, not paying vendors, not paying lawyers. he cheated -- roulette players of one of his casinos.

the only time you've ever known of people cheating at casinos there, he plied children as young as 12 with liquor, limousine,'s and free hotel rooms, suites actually, so that they would gamble the money that they had. and sometimes children could be quite wealthy. his whole life has been one of manipulation, and then blowing large sums of money. his book, the art of the deal, it's essentially the story of, here is all of the frauds i committed, one after another. i cheated this person involved, i treated my partners in my -- casino. i cheated this deal, and i cheated that deal. although at the time reviewers didn't seem to grasp the confessions trump was making in that book, written by, very brilliantly written -- by. >> okay, david cay johnston, always good to speak with you, thank you so much. >> have a good day. >> in the meantime, why more black women are opting for home births. and if you've been paying attention, the answer might not surprise you. paying attention, the answer might not

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racism. look at these headlines. american black women faced disproportionately high rates of maternal mortality. a cdc report shows more -- say they were mistreated during maternity care. the highest rate, among black women. in a new study shows fear of discrimination and dying during a pregnancy and childbirth, lead black women to prefer seeking a black obstetrician. joining me now to talk about this, doctor -- . she is author of the new book, and new york times bestseller legacy, a black physician reckons with racism in medicine. welcome back to the broadcast, it's good to see you dr. blackstock. so, tell me what this mistreatment looks like, and how it could be stopped? is it a matter of training? >> well alex, thank you so much for having me.

as those articles show, this is a real, real issue. and what's important for your viewers to understand is that socioeconomic status, professional level of attainment, is not protected for black women. so even myself as a black woman, with an undergraduate in medical degree from harvard university, i am still five times more likely to die of pregnancy related complications than my white peers. so, this is about multiple things, but it is also about what happens when black people who are pregnant interface with health professionals, implying that their concerns are often dismissed, minimized, and ignored. and we see that even with well- known people like serena williams, who almost died postpartum from a blood clot in her long, because her medical team did not listen to her. >> yeah, i have to say, congrats on that whole harvard medical school. like your sister, you are following your mother's footsteps, she must be incredibly proud of you to have done that. but, let me speak about the cdc, which says home births among black women increased 21%

from 2020 to 2021. how did the pandemic and the black lives matter movement play into that jump? >> yeah you know, i think that the pandemic and blm, it revealed the deep fissures within our alpha care system, especially as they relate to how black people are cared for. and i think it's important to understand, the black maternal mortality rate is worse today than it was 20 years ago. and that is despite advancements, innovation, technology, and research. so people are opting for home birth, because there are increased complications, when you have an inhospitable birth or most high income nations, most first-time birthing people have their deliveries at home. 85% of people who are pregnant in the u.s. qualify for at home deliveries, but almost 99% are in hospitable. and those are associated with a lot of complications, increased -- and bleeding, and other complications. so, this is why many people who

are black, who want to have a baby, and want to deliver, want to do it at home where they actually have midwives involved. because we know having midwives involved are actually -- associated with better outcomes for pregnancy. >> so listen, i'm going to be candid and tell you, i am a physician's daughter. and that would go against the general consensus about, it's safer in a hospital. so you are suggesting that may be safer, because of these elements of racism, and women who are saying i am in pain, i'm struggling, something is happening, and not being listened to. it may be actually safer for having a home berth, than in a hospital? >> right, yes alex. and the other piece of it is that you know, there is financial incentive for in hospital -- in terms of reimbursement rates. and so, we have seen over the last 100 years, the whole process of birthing has been medical lies. and when it is medical eyes, you have more interventions that can cause complications. so yeah, we see that even among

high income countries, this country still has the highest maternal mortality rate. and that is not just for black women it is for women of all racial demographic backgrounds. >> it is extraordinary, and is something about which you have written, so i like my directed put to put back the screenshot of your book, again a new york times bestseller legacy, a black physician reckons with racism in medicine. i want to thank you for this conversation it is an important one, and i hope people will continue to talk about. stem will improve and perhaps your book will help us do that. doctor -- thank you so much. that's going to be it for me on this edition of alex witt reports, we will be back next saturday and sunday of course, tune in at one pm eastern. in the meantime, msnbc prime weekend coming your way next, here in msnbc. your way next, here in msnbc. and it was the wod . mom was crying. i was sad. colton: i was diagnosed with rhabdomyosarcoma. brett: once we got the first initial hit, it was just straight tears, sickness in your stomach, just don't want to get up out of bed.

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