>> are you ever going to give up on waseem? are you in this until all appeals are exhausted? >> yes. i played the role of an innocent man being falsely convicted for crimes he did not do. i have to make it right. >> in 2016 the georgia supreme court upheld daker's conviction and he tried to take his appeal all the way to the u.s. supreme court only to be denied review. >> i have no doubt that waseem daker is a cold-blooded killer and justice has been served with his conviction. it doesn't matter what lottie says. this case is about karmen. this case is about nick. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm. thank you for watching.

good morning and welcome to this saturday edition of morning joe: weekend. let's get right to some of the conversations from this week that you might have missed. >> what worries me more, not just tucker, that's a symptom of all of this. it is that they are curating ti sympathy in america and they are helping nurture, develop an isolationist when in our country and my party, which i think is very, very dangerous. they're developing people who want to see a nato reduced or ed nato knotted here to. obviously former president trump is pushing this line as well. so, what i very much worry about is, they're helping curate a line of thought, a school of thought that is isolationist, that is pro putin, pro russia, pro tyranny at the end of the day and that is extremely dangerous for all democracy, robut ourselves as a democracy. >> for rogan house speaker paul ryan y.in an interview yesterda

with the washington post. you heard ryan mention tucker carlson who, as a part of it is a propaganda mission to russia, was amazed by decades old shopping card technology at a grocery store. soto is t our director t.j. who doesn't get out much. take a look, here it is in new jersey. >> here we go. i guess you put in ten rubles here and you get it back when you put the cart back. so it is free, but there is an incentive to return it and not just bring us dear alma's camp. okay. >> wow. it is amazing. i'm at a shop right in sussex, they have these nifty coin things here. it is quite incredible, it really is. you go like this, and it is a

quarter. it is amazing. therefore the cart won't end up in some encampment here in beautiful sexy county new jersey. >> oh my god! >> t.j.. >> did shop right in suspects learn that from russia? >> could it be, perhaps, that tucker has not been to the grocery tustore in a couple of decades? >> it could be that. the other thing that mystified the shopper in russia was the elevator for the cart when you have multiple stories. it got him all over the place in new york city. go to bed bath & beyond on broadway, they are everywhere. the other exciting thing in sussex county, the average four per capita income is not $7,000 a year, ceremony goes a long way here in the united states when you do grocery shopping. it might cost more than $100. >> and you don't, t.j., you

don't, well, maybe you do because we don't pay that much, but most people in sussex county don't have to pay half of their salary for groceries, right? dj? >> that is true, of course they don't. >> he's doing his job. >> i was amazed by the coin in the grocery cart, it was unbelievable. >> i like that he's doing comedy bits now. >> for hours isn't enough, i go shopping, i contribute to the show. >> it's amazing. it's amazing. >> it really is. you know what dj said to me when he said it to me on taxed? why can't america do this? why is it only russia that can do this? i go, t.j., you are in jurors. egos, yeah, that's right. >> well done. >> in fairness, t.j. lives so far away from work

he's almost in russia, but that's the story for another time. >> you can see it from his window. >> you can. he takes his -- he lives in pennsylvania. >> i know. all right, willie, go ahead. >> let's get back to those controversial comments -- controversial rooted mildly, from donald trump. we're hearing more them about protecting european allies. as fears grow but rushes expansionist ambitions beyond ukraine, trump is standing by his recent threat not to defend a fellow nato members from attacks if he is reelected. here is what he said in a clip first aired on fox news yesterday from that town hall that was taped the previous day. >> you're getting slammed from the some of your old adversaries about your nato comments. does this mean you're not going to defend nato countries if they haven't paid their two point whatever percent? >> sort of, it does. we have 28 countries. [applause] we have 28 countries, and they were taking advantage

tremendously. the european nations, they happen to be a long ago, my grandparents came from a place called europe. so i love it, but they are very smart and they took advantage. if they can take advantage of this on trade, and take advantage of us on nato. what happened, what i did, i told them if you don't pay up i'm not going to defend you. and they said, i can't believe it, nobody ever else said that. i was asked by a head of a country, a very strong question at a meeting. does that mean that if we don't pay you will not defend us from russia or whoever? >> i don't want to hear this stupid law again, this stupid story again. again, he oris lying. everybody, everybody, republicans understand, conservatives understand it, everybody understands it except for maybe some stupid people in the audience clapping. they're just willfully ignorant people in ththe audience clapping. but i've said a billion times, willie, it's been set a billion

times. i don't think he's so stupid that he lldoesn't know this. there are no dues for nato. there are no dues. by the way, a lot of these countries that he is trashing our countries that sent young men and women to fight with us in afghanistan and in iraq who paid the ultimate sacrifice. you know, this guy trashes australia. australia has fought with us in every single war over the 20th and 21st century. >> but he had bone spurs, he couldn't serve. >> he also, when he starts talking about, oh, they're taking advantage of us -- consumers dock because as the wall street journal will tell you, the editorial page will tell you, what donald trump is talking about is a 10% tax. willie, he's talking about

tariffs again. he is so stupid, he so ignorant when he talks about tariffs because he's got it wrong. it doesn't come from other countries, it comes from consumers in wisconsin. it comes from consumers. it's a tax on consumers in michigan, it's a tax on consumers in pennsylvania. it's a tax on consumers in georgia. it's a tax on consumers in arizona. it's a tax on consumers in nevada. and the conservative, pro capitalist, wall street journal opinion page says that, willie, and yet the stupidity continues and, as paul ryan says, he's convincing people in his own party that they need to be the party of putin and tariffs, which, again, as the wall street journal says, he is proposing a 10% tax on consumers. it is madness, and it's not s conservative. >> and the reason he keeps digging deeper t tiinto this

position on nato, for example, is because he hears those applauds in the room. he hears those applauds in rallies. he hears those applauds in certain broadcasts. here's the good news for the country and everybody watching today. there was a poll of just yesterday, there was a cue poll that we're gonna talk about later in terms of the presidential race, only about 20% of americans see any reality, see anything valid in the position that we should step away from our nato allies and left to pay their dues. so the point is this is a very narrow position that he is casting to, it's a very narrow group of americans who share this view. it wturns out americans think alliances are good and they appreciate that, after 9/11, er nato countries rallied to our defense. they think we should be together as we have been since the end of world war two with western europe, unlike donald trump. so he rocan keep saying this an he can keep digging this whole deeper, but it is a very, very narrow lane he's driving in this issue. >> we have lots more to get to

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♪ ♪ ♪ new polling shows the likely 2024 presidential rematch between joe biden and donald trump remains tight. a new quinnipiac university survey has biden at four points nationally among registered voters, that is within the poll's margin of error. essentially unchanged from a survey taken last month. a poll from the economist and yougov as trump with a one point, also within the margin of error. so, joining us now from pennsylvania, democratic senator john fetterman. it's good to have you on the show this morning. a lot of questions for you about what the biden campaign can do moving forward. i think one of the big ones is, how do they approach the

constant disinformation from republicans who, right now, blaming the biden administration for not closing the border? >> well, closing the border. i think the president has been very clear that he has to act about that. i fully support that, as well, to. now the revelations are never going to have a kind of a deal now because they -- it's too valuable to have that as a weapon. i think, now, it could be helpful to bring h.r.2 on to the table and challenge them to say, hey, here we go. we like to go this far because we do need to make sure that this border needs to be secured. >> we have reverend al sharpton with us, senator, and he has the next question. reverend al. >> one of the things that i've watched, as you began campaigning for biden, is

dealing with the fact that there is misinformation and a lot of noise on the right that the ones that are supporting trump. but you've also said that you're not going to let people just answer with noise on the so-called left, that you're going to try to do what you think is right for the american people. talk about that a little, that we do not need to counterbalance misinformation and noise and things that are being demonstrated by the zealots on the right, but that we need to define what is good for americans? i think that's the kind of road era trying to project in your thinking on so-called progressives, what i call latte liberals, who want to imprison you with an ideology rather than deal with people want to see done in this country. >> well, the republicans are shameless and they've always been that way. i don't know why anybody is surprised that they have any

kind of shame at all, and they're willing to lie and right now vance just pointed out he's lying about the ukrainian aid, and it's very clear that all of that aid is going right to american companies that produce these kinds of munitions, as well, to. they're willing to carry any water for trump and, i'm not sure where these kinds of fetish for russia ever came from as well, but i'm old enough to remember when it used to be the evil empire. now you have part of the republican party that are willing to stand with them, and they're actually embracing them, as well, to. it is truly astonishing that you are willing to let ukraine fail, as well. it's absolutely astonishing. they assassinate top critics and they have now been empowered to act that way. i don't know why we can't lean in and deliver for ukraine, israel, and taiwan. >> senator, good morning, it's

great to have you on the show. i want to get a sense from you on the ground in pennsylvania, a state that will be pivotal to the presidential election as it was when joe biden won in 2020. what is your sense of the feeling on the ground there? we have economic data that shows a very strong economy, but a lot of people in our country are feeling that right now. what do you think will tilt this election one way or the other in your pivotal state come the fall? >> it's going to be close. i've always predict it's going to be really close back in 2016 and the polls really predicted that clinton was going to walk in pennsylvania, and i knew it wasn't going to happen. the same thing in 2020, as well, to. biden has up five points in 2020, and it's just not true and it was very close. it's the same that is going to be in 24, as well, to. i do fundamentally believe that biden is going to carry that, as well. i'm proud to campaign for him, just the way i was proud to campaign with him in 20, two, when people were saying that

two are not popular, enough, two to be seen with him. i'm proud to be seen with him anytime, as well. he's been an incredible president. >> senator, we just had a amusingly zoom filter moment it looks like, there. good to see you this morning. let me ask you about, right now, there were concerns about president biden's popularity with the core pieces of the democratic base including progressives, young people, those who you've reached in your campaign. what does is nestled need to be to them so that they come out for him this november and don't opted to stay home or find a third party candidate? >> well, i think the president has done an incredible job. by any metric the president has been incredibly strong, as well, to know. if you're talking about young progressives, literally yesterday he was counseling more student debt as well, to. now you have, in alabama, now

you have embryos now called real being, as well, to. look at the kinds of things. this election is all about two very stark choices, as well, and it's the kind of thing that i talked about in reno, as well, to. we have a major choice in our america. what we want to be for the next four years, as well, to. joe biden has done an incredibly tough job, as well, to. and now, i can't imagine why trump is competitive, but he is. and now he can't be canceled now by anybody at this point. so now there is only one person, i believe there's only one person now that can beat trump and that is joe biden because right now he's the only person in america that actually has beaten trump. >> that's true. >> let me ask you senator one final question. as you go around pennsylvania, as you hear from your constituents, what is the most

important issue facing them? what do you hear the most from them as we move into this incredibly important election. what is the issue that you keep hearing about? >> the most important issue is what we want for this state and what do we want for this nation? what we want in a world order, as well, to. it's going to be very competitive, as well, to. and the president is going to win here in pennsylvania and i've always believed that whoever wins pennsylvania is going to be the next president. and this is going to be difficult. we all have to lean in on that, and we also have to start having all kinds of democrats criticizing the president, to, publicly. i don't understand why. i don't know what is in it for you to do that, whether you are just chasing clout, or you want to make the news, or anything like that. but if you're not willing to just support of the president and say these kinds of things, you might as well get your maga hat because you now are helping

trump. >> democratic senator john fetterman of pennsylvania, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. we really appreciate it. coming up, how small dollar donors are driving president biden's reelection campaign. we'll talk to the national co- chair of biden's reelection campaign, mitch landrieu. lecti campaign, mitch landrieu. which kept coming and going, i should have gone to the doctor. instead, i tried to let it pass. if you experience irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, you should talk to your doctor. afib increases the risk of stroke about 5 times. when it comes to your health, this is no time to wait. meet the traveling trio. each helping to protect their money with chase. wooo! tools that help protect. alerts that help check. one bank that puts you in control.

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candidate in history. the rnc and the trump campaign have not yet disclosed how much they managed to raise last month. joining us now, national co- chair for president biden's reelection campaign, mitch landrieu. he is a former democratic mayor of new orleans. mister mayor, good to have you on the show with us again this morning. so, help us square this massive haul, 130 million dollar war chest, $42 million last month alone, with the stories we keep hearing about a demoralized democratic base, an exhausted democratic base, people who just don't even want to see this matchup, are not enthusiastic about president biden running again. yet, here you are with these totals. >> well, they don't seem to square up, do they? actions speak a lot louder than words, notwithstanding the hand wringing for the folks in the peanut gallery. let me say this, though, i just watched the previous session with ambassador mcfaul and i want to remind everybody that the president of the united states is given seven speeches on the existential crisis that

is threatening the united states of america and the choice between autocracy and democracy, of freedom and somebody that is going to oppress. it is absolutely clear that, in this election, you're going have a choice between two people. a guy named donald trump, everything that he touches turns to dirt, it's about revenge and depression and is a friend of vladimir putin's. and joe biden, who's been working hard for the american people from the beginning. since this campaign started he has been doing very well. he did great in new hampshire, he did great in south carolina, he did great in nevada, his fundraising hall, as you said, it is hitting record numbers. and this campaign is starting to hit on all cylinders. so the country may not be excited about a trump biden revisit, but that is what we're going to have and it's the choice that people are going to have to make. i think the president has done an incredible job of bringing this country back from the brink and then protecting us on the national and international stage, as well.

>> hi mitch, it's palmieri. good morning. >> how are you? >> good, it's so good to see you. i wish that i was in your fabulous america's best city. so, i pay close attention to the campaign. i saw how the president started in january, vice president, too, a lot of state to travel, fundraising is going well, the president's -- has joined tiktok, more digital, more aggressive rapid response. i feel like the piece that i assume is coming that people say they're very anxious of four is the proactive message for what a biden second term would be, is that the state of the union is in a couple of weeks right after super tuesday. should we be looking to that data to be a place where we see, this is what biden would do in the second term, this is the agenda that will be voting for? >> i want to say two things. first of all, i want to reject all the hand wringing. i think it's wrong, it doesn't make any sense, and it's

inconsistent with the facts. joe biden has had the best first three years of a presidency that we've seen in a long, long time. i could go through the litany of the 15 million jobs, lowest unemployment rates, 46 million dollar -- the bipartisan infrastructure law, the bill, all of those things. in the campaign, the fundraising has been all records. so we feel like we're doing really, really well. the country isn't a very difficult time right now. as you guys have said, from a moment ago, the world is in a very difficult crisis and we have a moment at this time to make a right decision about what the future of the country and the future of the world is going to be about. so, to expect everybody to be happy and excited, i think it is just unreasonable. we're at a tough moment, which is why it's really important to joe biden remain as president of the united states. my expectation, jen you know this, joe, that the state of the union address is always an opportunity for whoever the president is to scope out a vision for what the future of the country is going to look

like. i fully expect that the president is going to take full advantage of that delay out not only where we have, been how we got where we are, but where we are going and our going to get there, as well, and why it's important to finish the job. >> mister mayor, good morning. on the topic of fundraising for the president a -- for california. i want to get one another development on the campaign in recent days, which is the reporting that donald trump privately has told his advisers he would support a 16-week ban on abortion, but he didn't want to invent it until after the republican primaries where concluded because he was fearful of alienating some social conservatives there. what is the biden campaign's response to that potential idea? >> well, that is not a big surprise. donald trump takes credit for and deserves credit for ripping away a right to privacy for women in this country that existed for a long period of time, and he brags about it. even three people on the supreme court that made that happen. so it's no surprise, and shouldn't be there anybody, that donald trump continues to

be about taking freedoms away. that is the big choice. donald trump wants to take your freedoms away, joe biden wants to protect them. there's nothing more poignant, especially to the people of america, that a woman's right to make reproductive choices. i have no doubt that donald trump is reelected again he'll do what he says and impose a 16- week ban that is going to be harsh and critical and it's going to result in consequences like what we've seen in ohio and we have seen in texas. you can expect more of that because that is who he is evident what he's going to do. the biden administration is going to fight back against that, they're going to restore, wrote the president has been very clear about his commitment to this, as has the vice president, and we're going to continue to fight very hard to protect the freedoms of all the americans all the time. >> national co-chair for president biden's reelection campaign, mitch landrieu. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. up next, is their burnout for the anti trump resistance? we'll talk to the new york times reporter who has been looking at what is behind the exhaustion. what is behind the exhaustion. i'm not an actor.

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♪ ♪ ♪ a new piece in the new york times is looking at a sense of burnout and exhaustion settling in for the so-called anti trump resistance. a national political reporter katie click right, and, prior to interviews with nearly two dozen democratic voters, activists and officials make clear that president joe

biden's challenge in energizing americans who are unenthusiastic about a likely 2020 rematch, are worried about his age, and, in some cases, they are struggling to sustain the steering anger towards donald trump. the democrats have relied on for nearly a decade. we're kind of, like, crisis out, is it a security guard from pittsburgh. democratic pollsters and strategists say that no one is more motivating or terrifying to the voters that mr. trump. many believe their voters will grow increasingly engaged as the general election years and mr. trump's legal problems unfold. certainly, mr. trump is hardly a mourning in america candidate and, while some have turned him out since you left office, he will be unavoidable in an election year -- reminding voters, democrats hope, of everything they have long disliked about him. katie, clickety author of that piece joins us now. katie, it's good to see you. so, the exhaustion is understandable. this felt like it's been a decade every morning of waking up to some new crisis or some new outrage. do you get the sense, though, that they might be tuned out no

and given the stakes of this election they tune in in october, say? >> certainly the democrats hope. they point to elections as recently as last week, the election on long island, another contest in pennsylvania and the point of those as examples of their voters remaining motivated when there are actual elections. but, across the board, polling shows that americans are exhausted and uncouth by the prospect of a biden trump rematch. the challenge in the democrats, we have seen each of the last elections as a national emergency, is to galvanize that broad, anti trump coalition to saddle up again at a moment when -- those voters are feeling fatigued. >> when voters, when they are expressing this kind of fatigue that they have, i express acceptance of trump and that

somehow a trump presidency would be -- it's not worth waking up to go and vote because they are feeling that they have absorbed him? or do you think, is there pushback that eventually, yes, alternate devote? >> it depends on the voter. i did not speak with any democratic or democratic- leaning voters that would ever consider, really consider voting for donald trump. the concern that i hear from strategists, and other party officials, is that people will feel so disillusioned by their choices that perhaps they're not motivated to turn out and vote, which is certainly something that i know democrats broadly are working to counteract, they're working to energize now. i think we can anticipate that growing in intensity moving forward. >> so, joe, as i said, nobody can be blamed for being exhausted by our politics right

now. nobody can be blamed for that, but the fact of the matter is that if we saw 2016 or 2020 was emergency, my god, look how much worse things could be in 2024. >> all the sirens are blaring. donald trump every day gives you a reason to understand the stakes are so much higher now, whether he's talking about terminating the constitution, whether he's talking about assassinating generals -- does this sound familiar? assassinating generals who are disloyal to him, i'm shooting them for treason. whether he talks about how he has the right that he is legally protected if he decides, like putin, to assassinate one of his political rivals that he says, as president, he should have complete immunity on that. we could go down the list. which i am finding is, as far as exhaustion setting in, jim, i'm finding exhaustion or among trump supporters in my family, in my neighborhood, in my old

church, people i grew up with who voted for trump in 16, voted for trump in 20, no apologies even as trump is calling me a murderer, they were just going to vote for donald trump. post january six, post chaos of the last couple of years, they are the ones i'm talking to who are exhausted. i must say, also, and i completely understand the whole thing about being exhausted by trump. i'm exhausted by him every single day. but the fight continues until he is driven off the political stage and the threat to democracy is in the background. but you just look. here is what dave weigel said. the side of the resistance, invisible, run for something -- keeps grinding and winning two. the performative stuff has faded, but these voters cram into any available polling booth.

what wonderful way to say it. voters, and i start in 2017 and i think of those women standing in the rain in virginia and shocking the political world, not only with the gubernatorial vote, but also the assembly, and it has continued one after the other. whether you're talking about county races in delaware, pennsylvania electing democrats for the first time in a century, whether you're talking about democrats winning governorships in louisiana and kentucky. we could go on and on. there has never thing anything quite like this. so, yes, i understand the exhaustion factor. trump exhausts all of us. at the same time, it seems, again, going back to the long island race last week, the resistance against donald trump in its purest form is to win voters. as dave weigel said, when voters cram into any available polling places in their communities to vote against

donald trump. >> i think you have to protect against people feeling that it doesn't matter. i'm exhausted, i think we're all exhausted. i feared that voters might become a nerd to trump, which is what i was asking katie about, if people -- if they can't absorb any more of the outrage from him. but, that is not what we saw in the long island race. also, i'm a big fan of sarah longwell's focus group. she is a never trumper publican group that does a weekly focus group with trump voters, two- time trump voters, and they had the same experience that your friends did, to, where they just decided this time they are too tired, it's too much, it's too hard, the criminal indictments, jan six, all piled on top of it and expressed a willingness to not support him this time around. >> jeanne, as katie writes in

the piece, democrats are waking up to almost a certainty, but likelihood, that trump is the nominee. he's the serious candidate. maybe there was fantasy that the trials, one of these cases was going to take him out, but katy has a line in the piece where afternoon hampshire, people said okay, this is going to be the guy. let's get serious now. >> yeah, absolutely. i don't think there is much doubt about it. one question to katie's, you talked to democratic voters and strategists who are lacking enthusiasm. did you get a sense that any of them actually wouldn't vote, that they actually wouldn't go and vote in this election and would be okay with that? or is it just enthusiasm short of not voting? >> so i heard mixed things. i did speak with some voters who are not certain what they will do in november, if their options are biden and trump.

again, not that there necessarily be coming trump voters, but to struggling to really think through getting activated around that and willing to commit at this point to what they could do. certainly many voters i spoke with, democratic voters, are saying regardless of whether they are enthusiastic in this moment, or tired in this moment, of course still vote for joe biden as he is indeed the democratic nominee, as we all expect. but the thing that i did hear from a lot of voters, regardless of how they were thinking through november, is that they do want to hear a bit more of an affirmative case for president biden. certainly, as we noted, no one in the eyes of many democrats is more motivating to their voters then the specter of donald trump returning. but, at the same time, a lot of voters do want to hear something beyond we have to stop trump. certainly a lot of democrats and the biden campaign have argued that it's not just about

stopping trump, although they certainly do see that as absolutely vital, but it's also about protecting abortion rights, it's about trying to do more on things like gun safety and, as the biden campaign puts it, it's the idea of building on what they see as the progress that he has made. the question is, is that translating to how voters are -- disgrace? >> those are the issues that, perhaps, might bring young people to the polls. i think that the risk is young people might tune out a little bit. nationally, colder border for the new york times, katie glueck, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. coming up, nearly four years after the pandemic started the cdc is now considering new recommendations for those who test positive for covid. we will talk to a leading physician who has written a new book about the virus. that is right after the break. that is right after the break. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪

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welcome back to morning joe. it dramatic changes may be coming into the federal government's covid isolation guidelines. the cdc is now considering a new protocol, which would allow those with covid to leave quarantine after 24 hours fever free. that is a departure from the recommended five-day isolation period, which has been in place since 2021. the potential shift in policy comes as medical experts estimates that over 97% of the u.s. population has now developed to some immunity to covid -- or both. during us now is dr. paul offit, he's the director of the vaccine education center at the children's hospital of philadelphia, as well as author of the new book, tell me when it's over. an insider's guide to decide during covid nurse and navigating our post-pandemic

world. doctor, it's so good to see you this morning. congratulations on the book. let's start right there, your analysis on these potential shift in cdc guidelines and, larger, what that tells us about where we are in our ongoing struggle with covid. >> i think the cdc made the right move, that the infection works into parts. the first part virus replication. the virus reproducing itself is a key. in the second part, when you are immune response takes over. when you're in the no response takes over, virus replication decreases and as you're -- it causes symptoms. so their argument that if you fight one day of not having fever, what that tells you is that your immune response is abated. it's lessening. therefore you're much less likely -- so i think it makes more sense to do that, to tag it to the individual symptoms whether than to pick an arbitrary length of time like a five days, ten days, seven days, 14 days, that sort of

tags thanks to the metric system of the lunar month, which makes little sense. so this makes it more individual for the sophomore, and that makes more sense. >> doctor, a lot of people who have been, whether there've been -- or wanted to keep their heads in the sand and attack anybody. we talked about it being more than a flu, have looked at all the things that have happened, all the changes in recommendations that have been made since the outbreak of covid and say, see, they have no idea what they're doing. of course, it is an act of virus unlike any that we've seen. so, tell me, looking three, three and a half years back, what have we learned? >> right. frankly, this was an amazing story in two ways. first of all you have this unusual virus that has unusual clinical characteristics, unusual biological characteristics, we isolated

and sequenced that virus in january of 2020. 11 months later we had done to large clinical trials using a technology that had never been used to make a vaccine before, that was remarkably effective vaccine. within the next seven months or so we vaccinated 70% of the united states population. again, an amazing accomplishment. as a medical or scientific achievement it was the greatest thing in my lifetime, in my lifetime includes the development of the polio vaccine. as you know, we hit a wall. 30% of the u.s. population simply refused to be vaccinated. they showed -- that the disease was that bad. why -- did we lose trust of the public, the fda, the cdc, and how can we get it back? >> yeah. let me ask you about the origin of the virus. i talked to a lot of different people who now originally said that there was no way it had

been sorted in a lab, it started here. there are still seems to be questions about that, with even medical professionals i talked to quietly who are still suggesting that maybe it did start in the lab. because this is unlike any virus. it seems to morph. you could get a sars vaccine and the smart cells work up to a decade or so. we learned with this virus that you need to get vaccinated and boosted regularly because this vaccine is always learning, always morphing, always causing new challenges. >> this was not a lab leak. i don't think this is a scientific controversy. you have the sorrows one, for example, that raised its head in 2002. that was a lab leak, it was a animal to spill over that occurred in china. mers, also animal to human spill over a event. all the early cases centered in the western section of the

hunan wholesale seafood market. when you look at the genetic analysis of that one particular area where there were dozens of species that were sold illegally that could then catch and transmit sars-cov-2 to humans, all the genetic evidence was there that sars covid two was there. it's remarkable to me that two thirds of the american public still believes that this could be a lab leak, but all the scientific evidence shows the opposite is true. also, remember, there has never been a virus that was created in a laboratory that caused a pandemic. so, as carl sciences, extraordinary claims should be backed by extraordinary evidence. this is an extraordinary claim that backed by no evidence. >> doctor paul offit, i have been waiting, i've been waiting for this book to be written when somebody takes a look back and asks whatever we learned, what did we get right, what did we get wrong, and what can we do better in the future. you've written the book, i can't wait to read it. the new book is titled would

tell me when it's over, in insider's guide to deciphering covid myths and navigating our post pandemic world. thank you so much, doctor, for being with us. >> don't go away, we have a second hour of morning joe: weekend for you right after the break. you right after the break. as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. it's time to feed the dogs real food,

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important conversations you might have missed from the week. let's dive right in. the former informant charged with lying to the fbi about president biden and his son hunter with statements that were at the very heart of the house republicans ongoing impeachment inquiry is back in custody this morning. alexander smirnoff was arrested again late yesterday in the lobby of his attorney's office while meeting with them to discuss legal strategy. the court filing, smirnoff's attorney said he was arrested for a second time on the same indictment in charge as he was originally arraigned on and released from custody earlier this week. prosecutors had asked a federal judge in california to detain him again after he initially was ordered released by a judge by hearing in las vegas on tuesday. a copy of the new arrest warrant shows it was issued by a judge in california yesterday. prosecutors stated smirnoff is actively peddling new lies that could impact this year's u.s. elections after meeting with russian intelligence officials just a few months ago.

special counsel david weiss's office, which charged smirnoff, did not respond to requests for comment by nbc news. so a lot of people had wondered why he was released in the first place given what we know about him, the judge in california gave the arrest warrant, and so he is back in custody, but just to remind our viewers, this is a guy who is at the core, a star witness by the committee looking to impeach president biden, a star on fox news. the entire argument hinged on the idea that joe biden himself had received $5 million in bribes and that turns out to be completely fabricated by this star witness, who has now been totally discredited. >> so when you are blinded by hatred of your political opponent, whether you are a news network or whether your congress, what happens? you let russian disinformation get spread to your viewers on

your news network. you let russian disinformation give into the, yeah, i will call it the sacred halls of the united states congress. a place that is supposed to be the people's house instead turned over to people who sohae thames so despise anybody who is not donald trump or who doesn't bow down to donald trump that they actually fling open the door's wide not only for rioters on january the six, but also threw open the doors wide for russian disinformation. any they still don't apologize for it. they were used as vehicles to support russian information. they want to apologize for that, and i will tell you, donald trump still, still has not come out and said anything about vladimir putin assassinating his opposition leader. >> it is grotesque. he's actually trying to

parallel himself. in russia, the mother -- >> the parallel, a guy who was poisoned, killed slowly in a gulag in the arctic. >> poison three times. >> poison three times, killed, murdered, which is what donald trump says he wants to do to his political opponents, he wants them shot for treason. and also, it says that if that happens, he can't be held liable for, it that he is immune from that, but he is comparing yourself to that guy. he is flying around on his private 7:57 plane playing golf, cheating at golf i am sure. that hasn't changed. and living in gold skyscrapers and a country carbs in palm beach and spreading big lies every day, and he compares himself to a freedom fighter

who willingly goes back into the fray, willingly goes back to fight tyranny in russia, even though he knows that he could be killed. do you know what it reminds me of? his attacks on john mccain, we've had john mccain, who couldn't lift his arms over his head because he stayed in vietnam as a prisoner of war when he could have been released because of who his father was, and he refused. he said no, i'm going to stay here until my band of brothers can come home with me. because of, that he spent the rest of his life not being able to raise his arms, and donald trump mocks him, ridicules him, mocks people that served in the military, mocks people and asks a question, when the world

would they ever, ever give their lives for their country? what is in it for them? >> the behavior is sick and grotesque, but don't let it distract you from his connection to russia, trump's direct connection to russia. at some point, you have to see what's happening. you have to look at this behavior, instead of reacting in getting triggered, you have to connect the dots. >> but what they are doing is, jean robinson, what they are doing is not being offended by donald trump kowtowing to putin, they have decided that in this personality cult, they too will kowtow to vladimir putin. and in this case, a little mic in the house is letting ukrainians die every day. letting putin advance closer and closer to taking over that sovereign nation that wants to be connected to the west, and

they are doing it. so instead of criticizing donald trump for this bizarre pro putin, pro russia behavior, they have decided we are going to adopt it ourselves, and we are going to become the pro putin republican party. >> absolutely, that's what they, are and it is shocking. this is a pretty desperate moment in the war in ukraine. where ukrainians on the front line literally are running out of ammunition. they're running out of weapons to fire back at the russians. they are getting outgunned in a way that they weren't previously, and they have lost one really strategic town, and they will be fortunate if they can hold the line where they are now until more aid arrives. but what they need is the big chunk of military aid, the

weapons that only the united states has in canada ply, and the republican party, because of donald trump, is refusing to budge on that. >> we have lots more to get to this hour. morning joe: weekend continues after a short break. a short br. e when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. mucinex nightshift fights your worst night-time symptoms, so you can get to sleep and wake up ready to go. how could you? ( ♪♪ ) wake up to a new you. with mucinex nightshift, it's not cold & flu season, it's always comeback season. ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪

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in russia, the mother of the deceased opposition leader alexei navalny says she is now seen his body but is still not allowed to claim it. speaking in a video statement yesterday, she said officials are pressuring her to agree to a secret burial. she accuses them of blackmail and claims that they have told her that if she doesn't agree to the secret burial, they have threatened to do something to her son's body. until yesterday, she has been turned away repeatedly from the morgue where her body was

allegedly taken. she said officials allowed her to see her sons body without her lawyer present, when they told her that alexei died of natural causes. meanwhile, president biden yesterday met with navalny's widow and daughter, posting these images along with a message, saying that navalny's legacy of courage will live on in yulia and dasha, and countless people across russia fighting for democracy and human rights. >> yulia navalny is stepping up to finish her husband's work, and without a moment to spare. this 47 year old mother, suddenly a widow, is now the face of the fight against fascism, and she is already showing the resolve of a unbreakable leader. [speaking in a global language]

[speaking in a global language] >> reporter: upon word of her husband's mysterious death, yulia wanted to rush to her children to cry with them, to console them. instead, she stepped up to the podium at the munich security conference, dug in, and demanded justice. [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language] >> reporter: for years, alexei navalny used his charismatic connections with people to organize in a country that silence the opposition which sent many of us supporters to prison. we used every platform possible on social media. his charm in dark humor drew in

supporters all in the face of impossible circumstances. he was attacked, not once, but twice in 2017, when pro kremlin associates sustained his face green. navalny made a part of his message. never losing his humor. the second time, doctors put a toxic chemical agent mix in, causing him vision in his right eye. in 2020, he became violently ill during a domestic flight to moscow, where russian officials wanted to keep him. [speaking in a global language] >> reporter: here, you see yulia's strength on full display as documented on hbo max. her fears protected instincts as she tore down russian officials using the power of her voice to force the russians

to relent. yulia coordinated the transport of her comatose husband to germany in time to miraculously survive, recover, and be tested, and that was's next fight. her determination to find the truth. >> reporter: german officials today said the toxicology tests found unequivocal traces of a nerve agent called novichok. >> reporter: navalny could've stayed out of russia, but instead chose to go back and fight the system from within. and upon his return in 2021, he was arrested at the airport, spending the next three years in prison separated from his family. this is yulia and alexei's last moment together ever. you liu now steps into the global spotlight in a role that she didn't want, but for which she received brutal, immersive training. she will likely bring with her a different approach, while using the very skills they pushed her husband forward.

while alexei navalny seemed to relish goading putin -- >> putin is supposed to be not so stupid to use this novichok. if you want to kill someone, just shoot him, jesus christ. >> now yulia stands phyllis lee in the face of the russian leader without her witty, charismatic women, partner, inspiration, and love of her life. the worry for yulia navalny is no immediate and long term. where you live, how to begin again, and how to stay hopeful. [speaking in a global language] >> i will add another question to everything that is on her plate. should she do this alone? and of course the answer that question is no, i urge all people who believe in democracy, especially powerful women in the know your value community, to step up and help this woman. how can you help? you can help by supporting aid for ukraine. you can help by supporting the

anti-corruption foundation that her and her husband started, and obviously you can help by voting in the next presidential election, connect the dots, and see what is happening and see russian aggression providing our politics, and see how she is standing in the face of this, and why shouldn't everybody else participate in protecting democracy and the lives of people who want freedom who are murdered by dictators. up next, we will talk about why the efforts from house republicans to impeach president biden might have just come to a screeching halt. president biden might have just come to a screeching halt. worl, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. only at vanguard you're more than just an investor you're an owner. that means your priorities are ours too. our retirement tools and advice can help you leave a legacy for the ones you love.

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as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. welcome back to morning joe: weekend. let's jump into another one of this week's conversation with that you just should not miss. >> on and, you have a new piece from the ink entitled, donald trump, victim king. how well put, and it you're right quote, there are all kinds of -- in this world, but

none rare then one who identifies with both vladimir putin and alexei navalny. yet that was donald trump this week. trump has long identified with putin, of course, calling him a genius and opining against all domestic evidence that the smartest one gets to the top. more importantly, trump has done everything in his power to make the world safer for putin, to make the world his oyster, but when navalny, putin's nemesis as leader of the pro democracy opposition, died this week, trump find him self stirred by the story of a great martyr because navalny reminded him of him. trump's simultaneous identification with a russian tyrant in the pro democratic leader, he muzzled in killed, is less strange than it seems, because it is important to trump's project that he beat

both invulnerable strongman and persecuted murder. he is a master at performing the victim king. i think about the judge in the civil suit who said something, i think the first time anybody has ultima countable have ever said, but donald trump pathologically is not capable of not being a fraud. similar here, disparate heavier is grotesque, it is also pathological. he is so intent on creating pain and creating trouble but he cannot help himself, and i think anand, your thesis is a great description of how donald trump moves himself forward. >> yeah, he's -- as anyone who ever has any strength in the mold recognize, donald trump is very weak man, i'm in a great wound in this and weakness inside, and he is a weak man who wants to be a strong man,

and his ticket that he has figured out so darkly brilliantly is to perform the victim for his supporters, and i think this is sometimes a misunderstood element, because he simultaneously says he wants to be the dictator on day one and so on and so forth, but he's constantly showing this kind of existential vulnerability as to his supporters, which makes them want to save him instead of what is normally supposed to happen in a democracy, which is the leader worrying about you. he's trying to turn that around and make his followers expect nothing from him, but actually save him. even sack the capitol for him. and so that is half of the kind of equation. this guy plays the victim to try to be king, but the other half of it is that he is really building this movement by being the want to be king of americas imagined victims. he is building a movement of people who have this kind of victimization conflict, this imagined victimization complex,

and that is really a remarkable thing to see so many americans who are living in a remarkable country, a country that has that more for them than most places in the world would do for them, play this fantasy that they are victims and only he can save them. >> yeah, i mean it is crazy. i always talk about the guy -- the millionaire driving the maserati up to his country club calling biden a communist in talking about, oh, america, it is a socialist paradise now. it has changed, it is this that the other. as he looks at his phone and sees his stocks just continuing to explode upward, and he makes millions in millions of dollars. it is the same with so many other people. jonathan, especially what is so hilarious is that there are so many people who will attack those on the left and say oh, there's snowflakes, that this, they're so easily triggered, no, they are the victims, and they're victimized about

everything. i've never seen so many billionaires in silicon valley, billionaires across american world who were victimized, who, how, and why a moment that america is not the america it was. donald trump attacking america viciously yesterday and the day before. he is always attacking america. they are always trashing america. the strongest economy in the world, the strongest military in the world, stronger culturally than anybody else by far. always, always the victim, and you talk to republicans and say, how can you still be with donald trump? they will say that it is the democrats fault because they victimize donald trump. they think that prosecutors steelmaker secrets, and then made donald trump tell his i.t. person to destroy the evidence.

then they made donald trump go to other employees saying, can you fled the i.t. room? may donald trump to all of these different things. make donald trump inspire and start a riot in for three hours stare at the pictures of the violence and we won back the most violent parts, right? well everyone is begging him to stop. and they're like, democrats made of trump do that, donald trump themself. he is no victim, he's victimizing everybody else. >> yeah, donald trump's sense of his own victimhood, perfect example, just this week he compared himself to alexei navalny. navalny of course a russian opposition leader, died in the siberian prison. donald trump likely is accused of committing the crimes and was charged for them. in your piece so interesting. i am curious if you could expand a little bit more on the role here, the victimhood, the cord that trump strikes with

people, this grievance. how much of it has to do with race and class and people saying, hey, i'm no longer have -- a white person saying, i no longer have what is coming to me. i am the victim here, you all have taken it. >> look, i think we have lived in the age of extraordinary change. progress and change. we have moved closer in our lifetimes to a bigger we in we the people. for the last 50, 60 years, extraordinary progress on empowering women to be their fullest versions of themselves, people of color to play roles and thrive as they were not in prior areas of american history, and for a lot of folks, white people, man, that's great, that's fine. a lot of people are very happy to share their country. but then we trump has appealed to a group of people who would rather break their country then share it, who would rather know one play with the toys ban share the toys.

and it's very, very effective, but i think the reason i wanted to write this in the.ink is if we have to understand the depth of anxiety and fear and people not having a sense of who they are going to be in the future that we are trying to build, the more inclusive future, and i think it's very important for pro democratic leaders, the president on down, to find their own ways of speaking to these anxieties, and finding ways to defending these anxieties. because you don't want the situation where only the strongman, only the want to be strong man, who is in fact the week, man speaking to those anxieties. it is very, very important for the pro democracy side to speak to those anxieties, allay them, and give a vision of where we go when there is a bigger we. coming up, we will talk to an author of a book about how president biden is working to restore america's reputation overseas. ore america's reputatn overseas. next. stop.

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the world is watching, watching all of us today. so here is my message to those beyond our borders. america has been tested, and we have come out stronger for it. we will prepare our alliances and engage with the world once again. not to meet yesterday's challenges, but today's and tomorrow's challenges, and we will lead not merely by the

example of our power, but by the power of our example. >> three years ago, one of the principal stated goals of the incoming biden administration was not only to heal political divisions here in the united states, but to restore america's reputation abroad. that is the subject of the new book entitled the internationalists, the fight to restore american foreign policy after trump. in the book's author, alex ward, joins us now. he is a national security reporter at politico. >> alex, thank you so much for being with us. fascinating topic. what is the thesis of your book, what did you find in writing it? >> the thesis of the book is that the biden administration did everything it could in their minds to save the world. they really felt that donald trump had ruined not only america, but global relations,

and they came in with a theory to repair american foreign policy as we know it. the interesting finding is that in order to do so, they actually adopted certain elements of trumpism in terms of keeping let's say the trade war or putting export controls on china, i'm talking about a foreign policy for the middle class, meaning the basically nothing they do around the world has to show tangible, real benefits for everyday americans. and so in order to save america, they had to do a little bit of a thing that they tried to save america from, it was a fascinating topic, and all that really permeated through the first israel-hamas war in 2021 of the biden administration. you also have the fall of afghanistan and the defense of ukraine. all of that was a learning process, all that was seizing all of these new tenants that they had learned was they came into office. >> what have they done best, and what has been the greatest success, and what has been the greatest failure? >> in their minds, they would say that the defense of ukraine

was a massive success, even though in the, and putin did invade ukraine, they would say look, we rallied the world to ukraine's cause. we gave at the weapons and needed to defend itself. we sanctioned russia and hurt its economy. we have boosted the morale of the ukrainian people and of nato. we have to expand nato at this time. that was a great when. now the biden administration wouldn't necessarily call afghanistan a failure, but many people would, and they wouldn't call it a failure because they still got around 120,000 people out, but of course we saw the chaotic scenes, 13 members dead, hundreds, thousands in horrible conditions outside of the airport of kabul, and of course the taliban taking over the country at a much faster clip than expected. but biden's team when they look at the bigger strategic picture, they would say, look it's better for the night states to be out of afghanistan at this point because with all the stuff happening around the world, is the better we're not spending time, resources, treasure in a story we could not win over 20 years?

>> hey alex, congrats on the book. at the pleasure of reading it early, it's terrific, i encourage everyone to pick up a copy. let's circle back to ukraine. no doubt a triumph of this administration's foreign policy and a tenant, building alliances, restoring alliances that are so badly strained by donald trump, of course that's been tested now in realtime, if the congress, the republican congress don't stand for the aid that ukraine desperately needs as the momentum seems to be turning russia's way. give us your assessment if indeed congress falls short here, through no fault of president biden, what would that mean for his legacy and what american foreign policy will look like in the future if our friends feel like they cannot count on us? >> yeah, they usually say foreign policy can't make a president, but it can break one. in this case, the house has a chance to break a key element of biden's policy. i'm just back from the munich security conference, and so if i look tired, it is the jet lag. everything i heard there was doom and gloom. they were worried about america. the amount of european officials who asked me what a

discharge position was was remarkable, and they're really concerned about americas staying power. this led to some european officials and some american officials to wonder about one counterfactual of biden's response to ukraine. there were criticisms they didn't sanction russia before the invasion, and were criticisms that they didn't pump ukraine full of weapons beforehand. now the biden team will say that that is unnecessary because that could've led to an escalation or could've removed the deterrent effect of the sanctions, but you have some people right now who want to defend ukraine saying, well, ukraine might have more stuff at their disposal today, as the biden administration does. >> but alex, the fear though again from the security conference was that donald trump might get elected. did mike johnson might win the day in congress, right? >> oh, that is certainly part of it too, do not get me wrong. there is doom and gloom around the return of trump and what that could mean. j.d. vance -- -- we shouldn't pass

this bill, it makes no sense, and europe needs to stand on its own. so that of course was a big issue as well, but there is also just genuine concern about the house and about, well, i had heard at least two european officials say something along the lines of, they know this, biden no longer said we will defend ukraine as long as it takes. a mother's argo, as long as we can. and so they sense a bit of unease and a bit of resignation from the u.s.. however, i should note, all of the u.s. officials there in munich were pretty clear, we will try to do whatever we can to help ukraine, and there was even the senators from the republican and democratic parties were telling european allies, this bill will eventually passed the house, but in what form? then it really. no >> alex, you have this really tight-knit group within with biden for years. biden, sullivan, blinken kind of running foreign policy in the white house. what are the upside, score the downsides of having such a kind of small group of known each other for so long? >> the offsides is that they

haven't -- there as been that much infighting. there hasn't been that much backstabbing in the press. for us in the press, we like leaks, but it has not leaked much a national security unless it's usually a strategically, and part of that sent back to their relief that they're trying to save the world. if you really believe that the message is that massive, you're not going to try to fight each other in public. coming, up are you a super communicator? we will explain what that is and help you figure out if you are or how to be one after a quick break. quick break. with nurtec odt i can treat and prevent my migraine attacks all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion and stomach pain. talk to your doctor about nurtec today.

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in this era of political polarization and by technology that has reshaped what it means to connect, our next guest is offering solutions to help people improve their ability to communicate. in the new book, super communicators, how do unlock the secret language of connection, bestselling author

charles duhuigg exports of the best communicators among us are able to bond deficits along others, even in the most difficult circumstances. charles joins us now. congratulations on the book. >> before the conversation, we had in the break, we posted that we're gonna have breakfast together. let's talk first about what define what a super communicator's first. so people can get a sense of what we have. >> most people have a super communicator in your life. if i want to ask you if you had a bad day to call someone to make you feel better, the someone pop immediately into your head? yeah. for you, that person is a. you're probably a super communicator back to them. but what is interesting is there are some people who come this more consistently, who can seem to connect with almost anyone. and in the last decade, researchers have started studying them. what we've discovered is it's just a set of skills. it's not about charisma, it's not about extra version it, it's a set of skills literally at him and can learn that allows us to connect with really anyone that we want to.

>> i think that's an important part, because you like there's a kind of person who say supercommunicator, i am not that kind of person. i am not gonna be that kind of person. so, what are some things people can do to at least begin to get their? >> absolutely. we're living through this golden age of understanding the neurology of communication, with advances in the row imaging, data collection, always to summers people who are consistent super communicators to ask a lot of people tend, to 20 times as many questions as c average question. because discussions are special, because they're deep questions. the questions like instead of saying oh, where do you practice law? saying oh, what made you decide to go to law school? what do you love about your job? those are questions that are easy to ask, but they're actually deep, because they pull out these aspects of who we are. super communicators are also really get approving that they're listening. in the book, there's a story about this experiment where they brought together gun rights advocates and gun control activists. normally, people who hate each other, to scream at each other. just by teaching them on simple technique to repeat what somebody said, to ask if they

got it right, they brought down all the conflict by 90%. once we believe someone is listening to us, when it's their turn to speak, that's when we start trusting them. >> i think we've established you and i are super communicators, in our break. we were discussing it. but also, you were talking about exactly what charles just said, which is showing a little empathy and curiosity into little genuine listening to the person you're speaking to. >> yes. i went through, it's, you sort of identify three types of conversations, practical, what this is really about, emotional, how do we feel, social, and who are you? when i'm saying when i go to trump rallies, i find i want to ask my deep questions. i wasn't realizing i was doing all the things you said, but i want to ask them a deep question about, what first drew you to president trump? and also, i say you know, look. let me tell you something. i work in media now, but it worked for hillary clinton. i worked for hillary clinton, i worked for barack obama, now, you know my secrets.

i just want to learn. tell me what you, and, i'm shocked at how quickly the defenses fall. >> absolutely. absolutely. and what you're engaging there is what's known as -- reciprocal authenticity. it's incredibly powerful. one of the chapters in the book is about the cia officer, kim lawler, who when he was first tire to recruit overseas spies, was terrible at it. he almost got deported multiple times. people left him. he's about to get fired. then, he just started being honest with people. instead of trying to cheer them up and persuade them, he would tell them all about his own insecurities. he was about to get fired. he was bad at this job. that's when people started listening to him and wanting to work with him. that ability to show something about ourself, it feels so good, right? to make that connection. >> and do you think part of the political divisions that exist now are because we're not communicating, or that the skills could apply in a larger scale? if you use them in your own life, you might help bridge divisions? >> absolutely.

you know, we used to teach communication and schools. it used to be part of curriculum. that, as schools got more technical, we sort of fell out. learning the skills is really, really important, because our brains have evolved to be good at communication. communication is houma sai'vyon's superpower. so, we are ready to have the instincts. sometimes, suggesting to be reminded of the skills to let those instincts come out. that's what the book does. it tells you the skills that allow anyone to be a super communicator. because the red conversation at the right moment can change everything. >> so, terrell, such as social media factor into all of this? because that strips away a lot of what we're doing right here, which is looking at you in the eye, really listening to you, sort of just talking at people or posting something, or being performative in some way and making up emotions, and making up the empathy. how does that change this idea of super communicating? >> it's a great question. the answers we have to recognize that there's different rules for different kinds of communication.

in this conversation we're having right now, even though we're not aware of it, our eyes have started to dilate at the same rate. our breathing patterns are starting to match each other. most importantly, with our brains, activity and never exist coming more and more similar. we're becoming narrowly aligned. now, when you're online, and you're screaming at someone, you are really not going to get aligned with them, right? the key to the alignment is asking questions. it's admitting your own ignorance. it's repeating back what someone has said, or show that you're listening. when you talk to your friends online, you probably do that, right? you probably tried to show each other that you want to connect. >> we have lots more to get to this hour. morning joe: weekend continues, after a short break. kend conti after a short break.

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with a qualifying internet package. don't wait, call and switch today! a new msnbc podcast is examining the question, how different america look today if of slaves for compensated a long time ago? it's titled into america percent uncounted millions, the power of reparations. it's hosted by tremaine lee, and he joins us now. tremaine calls this the most amazing story never told. it's great to see you. congratulations on this. if you didn't know about, it we didn't know about it. i don't think anybody really knew the story. it's an extraordinary story which tells us so much about the history of the country. we don't want to give away too much, because it kind of unfolds like a dramatic thriller, in many ways, but one of the broad outlines of this story and this, frankly, stroke of genius that the main

character deployed here? >> it might not even be hyperbolic when they really say it's the greatest story never told. having this conversation about reparations, even before the civil war was won, we heard the failed promise, the 48 hours, and lincoln actually favored sending them back to haiti or liberia, right? there is a time in 1862 in the federal government did pay reparations. it was called the compensated emancipation act of 1862, and it paid reparations for white enslavers, right? for all the property they could lose and framed, they were actually paid. , now we're talking about some of the most powerful, wealthy men in america at the time. the founder of respect. the founder of the willard hotel. the city clerk of the supreme court. all got compensated, so, this would set up generations of power, white power, establishing that caste system in washington, d.c.. but on that list, also appears a black man in gabriel coakley. this is where our story really begins. this is a free black man. a successful oyster meant in his community who, beginning in the

1850s, started buying his people's freedom. which was already, you know, against all the odds stacked against him. and he found a loophole. he never registered his family asked free people, so, by the letter of the law, because slavery was still legal, they were his slaves, and he ended up being compensated. that's just the beginning of the story. so, we're dropping today, episode 205, but it really isn't extraordinary story that begs the question, what could have been? because the setup generations of his family to be doctors, lawyers, genes of college, even out winner of the national medal of freedom. so, we have to imagine, what is all black people would have been made whole after slavery? >> trymaine, i listened to the podcast and you did -- and the thing i think people don't get is how personal this is for a lot of black americans, when a reporter dug up my family tree, and i went down there to south carolina and actually visited where my great grandfather was a slave, it gave me a new meeting. i've been an activist on might

life on reparations, but we're talking about our blood and for this guy to be able to, in many ways, play the system of slavery and slave masters getting some kind of funds is an amazing story of, particularly for those of us who have the bloodline of those that were enslaved. >> were the only people urge to just get over the deepest traumas we've ever experienced. and there's a moment talking to this family interview with the actual petition document or certainly, there was legal play, and certainly, it was about getting what was owed to his family, but there's a moment where you have to lift your human property by name, by complexion, by their temperament and trait. and realizing that certainly, he has taken what's owed them, but he had to list his family members, his wife, his sister, his six children, as property. light skinned, good temperament. a good nurse. it's heartbreaking. >> his property. as his property! >> as his property.

they were living as free, he was not a slave owner, but it was deeply personal for his family, certainly, but also for us. a lot of us don't have the benefit of getting to research and find the intricacies of our families lives, but deeply personal, it is. >> so, gabriel cokeleys an eight genius leads to him getting reparations. the reparations he shares with his family, his family's descendants. the reparations, money. money brings a certain amount of freedom. the freedom of education, what impact did they have, long term, and his family? >> tremendous impact. you're talking about when he got this money, 90% of african americans were still enslaved in this country. he got this money. this happened the year before the emancipation proclamation. he was the cofounder of st. augusta's church, which today, it's the oldest black catholic church in the city. that pillar of the community. we had a strawberry festival on the white house lawn, or the race 1200 dollars, which is the equivalent of $150, 000, to start a school for black children.

you bought two properties with them, and why is now the campuses george washington university, sold one of those, but another home. that wealth, as we know, real estate isn't just a driver of wealth in america, it's the wealth. so, without access to education, they go on to be teens of colleges, including howard university. samantha relatives would own property that they would give to lincoln university. the first hbcu. so, this wasn't only changing his families trajectory, but black america's trajectory. >> this podcast reminds the historical fact i think both people don't realize, we've had reparations in this country. it's just that they went to the slave holders, not to the slaves. >> that is mind-blowing for a lot of people. we gave reparations to this labor's. >> it's extraordinary. >> that does it for the saturday addition of morning joe: weekend. we'll see you right here tomorrow, at six a.m.! msnbc's the weekend starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪