it's the sort of decision that you would expect to see as a confrontation with the first amendment, which provides that no state and federal government shall not establish any religion over the others. this is certainly an appeal to a vision that does not apply to alabamians who come as muslims, as jews, as nonbelievers, but nonetheless this is the opinion that eight of the justices on the alabama supreme court joined. >> so what, joyce, is the impact of other states making similar rulings following alabama's footsteps, especially in the south where reproductive health care access is already- limited. what kind of punishment could be -- simply seeking ivf treatment? >> look, if alex, i actually think that this ruling will not hold up. the alabama legislature is scrambling, their bill is under consideration in both chambers that will make an exception for ivf. and alabama's internee general

steve marshall, who previously committed to prosecuting folks involved in obtaining abortions, said very clearly that he would not prosecute providers or families for seeking ivf treatment. but alabama has adopted a constitutional provision that says life begins at conception. so if you are willing to make an exception here as the attorney general and the legislature clearly are, then the question is what other sorts of exceptions are you willing to make. is it only for families who have the financial wherewithal to seek this really expensive treatment? might you perhaps guarantee access to medical care for women who are having to go pregnancies, which involve embryos outside of the uterus and result in serious consequences. i think really alabama should be used not to cut off further rights but to reopen the national debate on how we are going to guarantee quality care and access for women. >> okay, i hope people have heard you loud and clear on

this one. joyce vance, thank you so much. appreciate you. in the meantime, he almost never hear from them. two supreme court justices spoke friday night about whether they feel beholden to the president who nominated them. you're going to hear what they said. they said. a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome again to alex witt reports. we begin this hour -- gop primary, nikki haley is heading to michigan today ahead of tuesday's primary there. promising to remain in the race against all odds. while donald trump, facing another week of steep legal hurdles. hailing -- former president getting nearly 60% of the vote, and the former south carolina governor nearly 40%. after the early call of defiance -- from both. >> in certain countries are allowed to call your election day, if i had the right to do

it i'd call it tomorrow. i say we're having it tomorrow. >> we're headed to michigan tomorrow. and we are headed to the super tuesday states throughout all of next week. we will keep fighting for america, and we won't rest until america winds. >> according to nbc news's exit poll results, the most important issue for voters in south carolina's immigration. it's all about the economy, foreign policy, and abortion. meanwhile, also new today, california's government pitching joe biden strengths on behalf of his 2024 prospects against donald trump. and he says he thinks nikki haley should stay in the race. >> i don't know why democrats wouldn't want her out of the race, we she is one of our better sir gets. she is finding opposition to trump incredibly effectively. she's making points that i'm applauding every single day, about his temperament, his

capacity, his unraveling in realtime. i think he's weakness masquerading strength. i think he's more unhinged, he's less interesting than he was even a few years ago. . >> new developments as well from capitol hill. voices from both sides of the ukraine funding battle digging in as this weekend marks two years since the russia invasion of that country. >> so it comes down to one person. speaker johnson. will he put the bill on the floor? i have spoken with him personally, he has indicated that he would like to get the funding for ukraine, he's trying to figure out a way to do it. >> one thing you did not hear jake sullivan or joe biden say today or really ever is defining their mission in ukraine. they've yet to find that mission. they have yet to set the strategy and they have yet to articulate how are we going to get out of the situation. >> we have reporters and analysts ready to go oh overall today's new developments today. as i welcome you all were going to begin with and bases vaughn

hillyard on what's next after trump's decisive win. vaughn? >> alex, the prospects of nikki haley somehow pulling off the republican nomination are so very slim at this point. the fact that nikki haley herself isn't even contending that she will win anywhere, across the country, but she made the commitment that she's going to stay in this race, she's not going to kiss the ring of donald trump, she directly last night called out of republicans who now stand by his side despite having privately expressed their loading on donald trump. she said that she believes that the result out of south carolina and other states show that there is a hefty percentage of voters they don't want donald trump, and that she feels it is an assessor the for her to continue to provide americans around the country to vote for someone not donald trump in this republican primary process. michigan is up next, there is a primary in the caucus, and the

reality is that those who are taking part in this caucus are very much trump loyal activists. we expect donald trump to do well in michigan, and then of course super tuesday, march 5th, more than a dozen states, more than a dozen republican electorates are going to have their say in the republican nomination. for donald trump part, last night here in south carolina, he didn't even mention nikki haley by name let alone even mention the fact that he had a republican opponents. his team is trying to move their attention towards joe biden and the democrats in november. but this is a moment of reckoning where we still have at least several weeks of a republican fight left to be had because nikki haley has made it clear that she intends to go nowhere despite the difficult prospects she is facing alex. >> okay, ivan. thank you for that report. let's bring in nbc's aly vitaly who is on the way to detroit, michigan, where haley will be holding an event later today.

and also msnbc -- political playbook correspondent -- eugene daniels. both good to have you both here. ali, you heard vaughn talking on this. nikki haley has pledged to keep going until at least super tuesday, which is over a week away. but in the delegate count it looks unrealistic. so is that reality setting in at all after the loss in her home state? >> they are well aware of what the delegate math looks like, and in fact alex i asked nikki haley's campaign manager last night about this idea of many of the states coming up being winner-take-all states, even those where they think there's fertile ground for haley to cobble together that coalition of republicans and independents, even in some of those states just because she's able to build a coalition doesn't mean that she will even see any delegates out of it. what they are seeing though out of south carolina's results last night, and why they might have seen a little bit more jubilant than you would think a group losing by 20 points would seem, is because the 40% that

they got is a 40% the tells this message. watch. >> i'm not giving up this fight when a majority of americans disapprove of both donald trump and joe biden. in the next ten days another 21 states and territories will speak. they have the right to a real choice. not a soviet style election with only one candidate. >> a lot of the states that haley is talking about there are already in the voting process, and i think one of the things that stuck out to me from our exit polls yesterday, alex, is the fact that a lot of these voters said they made their decision back in january. that means though even though hallie is willing to keep campaigning, it's not clear that voters are listening actively so they can make a new decision. >> are you getting a sense, hallie, assuming she doesn't become the nominee, of what

comes next? could she or would she run on a third party ticket? >> look, that is one of the open questions, and we've pose this to both haley and her senior aides before, alex. haley has been clear she is running in the republican primary as a republican, it doesn't stop people from no labels, one of those key party groups about talking about this about nikki haley. watch. >> nikki haley, she's going -- you can't count her out completely. and hats off to her for staying in it, and for sticking with it. we're looking for great quality people, and folks that have broad appeal to independents, democratic, republicans, and yeah nikki haley is somebody we were definitely interested in. . >> the way that cunningham there describes the broad appeal that no labels is looking for, that's a kind of coalition building that nikki haley is not shying away from doing. she says that makes a republican party better off in a general, and that's why she's

not shying away from asking independents and even would-be democrats from coming to join her cause. that being said, her general election message doesn't matter at all if she can't get through the primary, which of course increasingly it is looking like any chance of that is not happening. but at the same time again, she has said she's not going to run on no labels, her staffers said that she's not gonna run on no labels, i do allow for the fact that anything can change in politics, it feels like no door is ever really closed, but as much of a door can be closed i do think the low labels one is for nikki haley. >> that's not gonna stop me from asking eugene this question, though. what do you think of nikki haley as a potential no label candidate? how would that up and the november election? >> it would change thing quite a bit, nikki haley does have what cunningham was talking about as this kind of broad appeal. the coalition that she's been building in the states where voting has already happened is not a republican coalition, and you have democrats -- not-so-

big victory party last night, and when you talk to people, some of them were democrats, some of them were people who used to vote for trump in 2016, and maybe even 2020, wanting something different. it's a mix of a bunch of people so it would be something interesting. but, and we know this in this country third parties, it's just so difficult to actually get them to win the nomination. nikki haley is someone who despite the fact that she continues to lose, talks about wanting to be successful, so she's also thinking about her legacy. she's gonna be thinking about what's the legacy, what's the future for her in politics as she moves forward. she still very young, in her 50s, and that's something that her and her team are going to continue to have to talk about, i will say one of the things i found most interesting is yesterday they didn't seem sad. they didn't seem like a party or a campaign that just lost by

20 points. however moving forward she only talks about super tuesday, she hasn't talked about really going past that. they hired up some staff in some states past super tuesday, but it does seem like we're going to get some answers from her on the night of super tuesday as we move forward. >> it all comes down to money on that front in so many ways. let me ask you, when it comes to third parties, eugene, i think we can fairly much agree that they really play the role of spoiler so were there to be a hefty third party to some degree in november with a presence there on the ballot who would that hurt more, joe biden or donald trump? >> so -- we don't know, right no none of us have a crystal ball. however, probably joe biden when you look at the coalition -- it's kind of twang similar to the coalition that nikki

haley has, a little bit more democrats than republicans, you, have progressives you have, the left, you have moderate democrats, republicans, yet independents, you are black and white voters, can all over the place for them. they pride themselves on having this huge -- if anyone is able to pull from that, whether it be nikki haley or rfk or cornell, any of those people pulling from him is going to hurt him. will that hurt -- all those people also say they don't want donald trump to be president, so they are clearly operating in a different way. the biden campaign is well aware of the third-party threats, they are concerned about, it's there showing a brave and strong face but they're constantly thinking about one of the ways that they can shore up their support with their base voters, and more importantly the voters who took them to the white house in 2020, to make sure if there is a strong third party candidate that there be no labels or one

of these others, that they can make sure that they're not bleeding too much. only a handful of states for this really matter. >> i'm just reminded that when you think about spoiling you think about 1992, ross perot, bill clinton got elected and they largely attribute ross perot's presence as being the reason why bush 41 was not elected. safe travels to you, ali, i heard your blinker on recently and i was like oh i'm glad she's not driving, but anyway safe travels. >> they worry, we're on starbucks, that's fine. >> picking up something, i'm thirsty. thanks guys. meantime, ukraine -- one side is talking about a blueprint for preece. is that possible? nbc's richard engel just spoke with the ukrainian president, he's going to join me live. we're back in 60 seconds. we're back in 60 seconds. rget n 's updated covid-19 shot too. meet the traveling trio. each helping to protect their money with chase. wooo! tools that help protect. alerts that help check.

one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. [cough] honey... honey. nyquil severe honey. powerful cold and flu relief with a dreamy honey taste nyquil honey, we have this breaking news, new word from president volodymyr zelenskyy about the dire military situation in

ukraine, zelenskyy saying he hopes to present a blueprint for priests to russia -- this spring. this -- two year anniversary of russia's invasion. zelenskyy also saying that 31,000 ukrainian soldiers have been killed in this war, giving the first official figure for more than a year. joining me now our nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel, and former fbi special agent and msnbc national security analyst clint watts, gentlemen i'm glad to have you both with me here. richard, what can you tell us about the peace plan that zelenskyy plans to propose. what is his message to the world? as this world war is entering its third year? >> it is, and right now there is a big conference going on here in kyiv that the government has organized. they're using this moment as a restart, as a reboot, they're calling it. yesterday president zelenskyy spoke to the ukrainian people. he was telling them that they need to stay strong, they need to keep fighting they can't

give him even though it's difficult, he spoke about the made to get the soldiers more time off and to give them more consistent rotation. today he was really addressing the foreign media, trying to talk to the world because they realize here that ukraine has a crisis. they're starting to lose territory there low on ammunition, supplies from the united states, weapons, and ammunition are both held up in congress. so zelenskyy's message was we are going to try and use this moment to outline our vision for the future. part of that vision, alex, was this peace plan that he talked about. he says that this is a two-step process in which starting in the spring in geneva they would be a gathering of ukrainian officials. russia wouldn't be invited to this first peace summit as they're describing it here in geneva in the spring it would be an internal meeting between

ukraine and its allies to effectively come up with terms. they would break it down into committees they would present each argument as they would like to see it resolved, then they would present this document collectively to the russian side, the russian side would study it and meet for a second peace summit to come up with just terms stand the war. a very complicated process. i asked him, he also just gave one more thing -- president zelenskyy also just gave a press conference, and i asked him about the difficult situation that ukraine finds itself in right now. >> my colleague from italy, i just returned from the front line area, i wasn't -- things look very difficult right now. by your own account, you are outgunned, 7 to 1. the front lines aren't really moving where they have moved it has been in russia's favor. so my question is, is this the weakest time that ukraine has

found itself in since that initial phase of the war when russian troops were literally at the gates of kyiv. >> reporter: >> translator: it's a complicated question. i don't think this is the weakest point. it was a shocking moments, on the 24th of february, two years ago. now it's the very strong moment for our unity. if we get divided with our partners and inside ukraine, in the best case that would be the weakest point. at this point, at this moment we haven't had something like that. we understand there was focus of everyone to say that, and we understand how important it was for journalists to pay attention to this tragedy, but

still the focus of the leaders was also diverted from ukraine and the attention was diverted and at certain regions of the world starting to forget that we have a full scale war. i think that was the most difficult period >> it is extraordinary that he doesn't call right now the most dire moment because i juxtapose that to something that i found literally heartbreaking when i watched a piece of your gesture day that we arabs when you had ukrainian troops just writing on walls, a white wall that you pointed out about how they said just give us the artillery, we will do the rest. that's all they're asking for is justice supplies so that they can continue fighting. i found that absolutely heartbreaking because it was such a cry for help, and what they need. i'm going to come back to you in a second i want to get clinton here because last week, clint, russian fortunes

captured the longtime ukrainian stronghold of avdiivka, their first major gain on the frontlines since seizing bakhmut last spring, giving them control now of all of eastern ukraine. how precarious is this situation for ukrainian forces on the frontlines? >> alex, just to think about this. this battle in avdiivka which you see right here, that's been going on for about four months. really it was a war of attrition. the russians taking massive casualties but at the same time the ukrainians not able to hold the line and even losing some forces here as they started to retreat. that was devastating to them. this is the second push by the russians in two years. here in bakhmut last year then, this year avdiivka. small movements still on the battlefield but the question is, will this create essentially a breakthrough where the russians can pour through into the rear lines of the ukrainians. the big issue as you noted, the ukrainian soldiers sing

artillery shells, probably number one. missiles number two, it's really a game of ammunition and manpower. the ukrainians have lost a lot of soldiers, they need to train and be able to rotate them to the front lines, that's what president zelenskyy was talking about. all of that is a weakness that they have to fix, and that is held up mostly in the united states congress right now, not necessarily on the will of the ukrainians. >> would you, richard, talk to ukrainian fit soldiers, do you sense that they still have the determination and the courage? they haven't had that blunted by the 31,000 that have been killed on the field there? >> no, i haven't sense that it all. they're tired, but they know why they're fighting. and i think they know that more and more every day, as the fight gets harder. they're just asking for ammunition, they're asking for weapons, president zelenskyy stretched stressed twice today during his press briefing that the money goes back to american

companies anyway because these are american weapons, so it's american funds to buy american products that was a point he has made. this is -- no they're not asking for people to fight for them. actually president zelenskyy said as well in addition to getting a quote a question with him, i sat down with him, it was our fifth conversation since the war began in a one-on- one. he was telling me that for the united states this is not a bargain, but he thinks this is absolutely in the u.s. security interests, and in all of nato's interest because if you don't stop them here using ukrainians who are willing to fight then he thinks it will encourage vladimir putin, vladimir putin will steamroll all the way through ukraine and push up against nato, and then you'll have to send american troops, and then you're in a massive conflict that has a much more significant cost. his vision is help him in order to stop what is potentially a

much greater conflict. >> i was going to say, he's not alone in that. that is becoming a pervasive argument for sending what they are asking for, giving them the artillery, -- americas will not have to if they can stop russian aggression. well at the munich security conference last week, clint, u.s. sanity sent that they were told a very demoralizing story by ukrainian officials about a soldier in a muddy trench with russian artillery exploding nearby, scrolling on his phone for news that the u.s. had approved military aid. what is your message to republican lawmakers who are holding out on sold sending weapons to ukraine? can you explain to them why it's in their best interest to support it? richard and i were just talking about its richard also mentioned that the president spoke about monetarily the money goes back to the u.s. companies that are giving and creating this military artillery. what is the logic to give to

republicans in congress? . alex there's no logic at all, we've already supported them over the last two years, they fought a valiant defense and made an incredible achievement in defending the country and pushing back against russia. also we're talking about russia, this is a country that interfered in our election in 2016, talking about putting some nuclear power -- space race at this very same time that we are talking about before munich. there's no reason not to bring this to an end. we could do that just by pushing that ammunition, pushing those weapons. it could bring what i think is probably a peace plan the president zelenskyy has been talking about which is a settlements, and if you can to other conflicts, the korean war, it could look something like that maybe overtime. that is a bargain, as richard per se from that interview. rather than going through this process of where with the line and, where would it stop? i know all the other countries particularly moldova just to the south or the baltic states,

they will be next on putin's list if he's not stopped in ukraine. >> and, can we -- we looked our director will focus back on that. looking at that map, the peace plan that richard was talking about that zelenskyy is proposing, can you guesstimate if there would have to be territory given up to russia and if so, where that would be? >> two things to consider with this, alex. the frontlines basically runs right here, where you see these blue light blue patches, that's where ukrainian place forces have taken back from the ground. what i imagine vladimir putin would say he, he wants to take back both luhansk and donetsk. he wants to take back this area as well. there would be a lot of contention around what parts of this donbas region that ukraine would be willing to give up in a sense of permanence to russia. russia would say all of this is occupied ukraine, they would say all of that is already russia. maybe a year ago they announced

that those states were part of russia. they've already begun this. process. it would be a debate somewhere about this region here where, they would try to debate probably about what that line would be. to the south, the river is natural break point. i think that is fairly well set. but here in the donbas which goes -- this is where the debate will continue. >> okay. listen, you guys, we'll have your welcome anytime on this broadcast. it's a treat to have you -- given all the work you're doing. that would include that sit- down interview with the ukrainian president, which we will have more about as well. thank you guys so much. you're not going to get a chance to catch a breath this week, tuesdays michigan's primary day for both parties, so it should be simple but is anything simple these days? it's also complicated. we're gonna try to make sense of it before we go. before we g '. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill

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ohio. i as i welcome you -- campaigning for president biden ahead of the primary. it is certainly a crucial swing state that went to biden in 2020, but there is a new poll you may be familiar with. it is from michigan and shows another head to head matchup with trump leading biden, that's 45 to 41%, there's a 4% points played. it's equal to the poll's margin of error. does this race feel that close on the ground there, and what is the message that the biden camp is trying to get out? >> on the ground here today i have been doing churches, people are excited, and they are excited because they understand all of the things that president biden has done. they do know that is going to be a repeat of 2020, they do know that you have donald trump who led a presidency and is trying to come back and he's a bully, and he's trying to get revenge, and retribution. you have joe biden who wakes up every day trying to help the

american people. we also know that joe biden has a track records. when i talked about that today in the large churches, people understood that and they were aware. whether it's talking about the $35 a month for insulin, whether it's talking about all of the stuff that he's done with inflation, and the unemployment rate, especially for black votes. and right here in michigan during the time in office, more than some 340,000 jobs, they understand that that's the akana me and health care. so they're excited. >> all right, that's good to hear they're excited and they understand a lot, however as you're well aware there's been that coronated push for democrats to vote on committed in the primary instead of voting for president biden. as some former protest -- israel gaza war. michigan congresswoman rashida sleeve has been supporting this effort, and then yesterday former congressman from texas -- back that move. what are you hearing from the

democrats there on this? are you concerned? >> i can tell you that they understand what that means, they understand that they have two choices. donald trump, or joe biden. and so today i was very clear in saying they need to be committed to vote and that vote is voting for joe biden. they have so much to lose and you're right, when you look at it being a very close election, i understand the pain that people are feeling because of the situation. but donald trump is not going to relieve that pain. and joe biden is working hard to make sure that we relieve the pain and bring some resolve. >> are you thinking that president biden might need to heed these warnings and call for permanent cease-fire, because as the president stands on israel, might it come to hurt him in november? >> i think the president has been very clear that he is

working towards this resolve, i think he has put things forward that many of us are joining and working with him on. but this move that they are doing is not something that is going to help that cause, because if you are not voting for joe biden and your sending a message to those who aren't as engaged in this, that it's okay to be on committed, that it's okay to make that choice, donald trump. that does not make sense, this is the man that is done so much to hurt the american people and especially when we look at black americans. >> can you give me a sense of vice president kamala harris and all she's been doing to prop up the biden campaign? certainly there in michigan, elsewhere speaking about abortion rights. malefactor you think she is being? >> i think she's been extremely effective, when you talk about women's reproductive rights, and when you look at -- i was in virginia the first time at

the beginning of the year we had president biden and first lady and of course we had our vice president and second gentleman, and i can tell you women in the audience as well as men received her extremely well, because we know. i'm from ohio. we were able to win against the odds on the constitutional amendment, and also on reproductive rights for women. women vote, and men voted overwhelmingly on this issue in ohio because it's a family issue. we are ready to take this issue on again. >> certainly ohio leading the way on that. last question to you, ma'am. as chair america of the black caucus, i want to get your the take on donald trump's series of comments -- included suggesting black american support him because of his numerous criminal indictments and that they have quotes embraced his mugshot. will trump's comments have any sort of tangible effect on how

certain demographics view him? >> let me just say i was not shocked or surprised because he's made so many racist statements. and for him to equate his mugshot in indictments, 91 indictments i might add, to assume the black people are all black people have been engaged in the criminal justice system is offensive. and it's a racist statement. i don't think it will have the effect that he is thinking, because black people are smarter than that, and he has a track record saying things like this. >> let's go back to what you said at the beginning, they understand. congresswoman from ohio joyce beatty, glad to have you on the show. thanks for sticking around, i know yet to take off a couple minutes ago. you can go. now to supreme court justices talk about partisan feuds and whether they will interfere with their work. ere with their work. i felt that my memory was beginning to decline

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when trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws. i fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. i'm evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values. as we wait, supreme court decisions on picking up trump's immunity appeals, and a -- ballot access in colorado, justices amy coney barrett and sort of meijer are stressing camaraderie -- they spoke friday at the national governors association conference. take a listen. >> remember, thankfully, for us, presidents don't last that

long, right? there's eight years. for us to be beholden to one of them is a little crazy. >> it's not just that we're not obama judges and trump judges, we're also not democratic judges or republican judges. we don't sit on opposite sides of the aisle, we wear the same -- >> joining me, now -- politico, he wrote that article about the justices. and paul butler, former federal prosecutor now georgetown university law professor and nbc news and msnbc legal analyst, glad to have you here in the studio with me. josh, do you first. how unusual was that appearance by the justices? what was their main message? >> well, alex, it's pretty uncommon to see any kind of joint appearance by justices, and especially unusual i think to see it by justices that at different ends of the ideological spectrum. parts of the two different things -- you do see it once a year or a little bit less

frequently. it is interesting that both of the wings of the courts think it's important to get the message out that they don't at least regard themselves as political tools to be deployed in a partisan fashion. >> can i just ask you one question, that we had two women doing this? i'm gonna think that sometimes you're gonna have women that are going to work together better, do you think there's anything to that, what was kind of the sense of the camaraderie between those two? >> yeah, i think some of these things involved personal chemistry between the individuals, i will say that there was an event i think two years ago with justice gorsuch did it with just a sort of more your talking about specific values and things along those lines, but sotomayor explicitly began some of her other remarks during that event yesterday, did talk about some anecdotes from sandra day o'connor and early days in the court where she really did try to be a

peacemaker and require justices basically to participate in some of the social activities that the court, even when they tried to hide out in their offices. there may be something to this argument that women are more interested in this kind of approach. >> i am laughing at the social component of all that, because he responding to. paul, talk to me about how you interpreted all of this, what these justices said. doesn't mean there is no conflict? what do you make of the timing? it sounds kind of interesting to me, given everything that's on their docket right now. >> yeah, alex. the timing is huge. this is as close to a public relation -- as a supreme court justice is going to give. they know there are legitimate concerns about their ethics. justices thomas is the poster child for concerns that we also have about people like justice alito. also there legit is some legitimacy, last couple years the court has -- on women's right to choose, and on affirmative action. it's not because the law or the

constitution has changed, what changed was that donald trump was able to appoint three of the most conservative justices in the history of the court. they know they've got some explaining to do to the american people. they're there to remain in high esteem, and i think what justice sotomayor and justice barrett wanted to do was to say look, this is a moment but we will get past this moment? . >> how about again, timing? do you expect to hear from the court this week on either the two outstanding from cases that they're looking at. >> this is taking a long time, so the immunity case donald trump asked the court to review the d.c. circuit opinion two weeks ago. all the papers were due one week ago, let's taking the courts along, we have no idea? the court can take its own sweet time, but what some lawyers think is that the court is poised to affirm the d.c. appellate court decision, which says that trump does not have the absolute immunity that he claims. if that's the case, the reason

it may be taking long is the one of the conservative justices might be writing a dissent. so she or he can take as much time as they want. that's a theory, we really have no idea. >> until we find out for sure. so josh, trump lost his effort to delay enforcement of the 454 million dollar fine that he now owes to new york state. that fine, also racking up $111,000 in interest every day. what are you hearing about how much he might need to raise to even file an appeal? >> the general rule, as i understand it in new york, is to file an appeal you need about 20% more than the amounts of the judgment. so just doing the quick math, that would take you a pretty close to 500 and $54 million, over a half billion dollars really that he needs to come up with. the only way you could see him possibly coming up with that kind of money would be to mortgage probably more than one of the buildings that he owns,

find someone who's willing to issue a bond here, and allow him to go forward with this appeal. the other handicap he faces, alex is, you know in a normal case there would be a lot of financial companies and other companies willing to try to help write this kind of special bonds, but there are so many companies that just won't do business with donald trump anymore due to the past traumas you might say, but i think it's gonna be hard for him to put this kind of package together. >> -- yeah absolutely, and mortgage buildings that are already severely mortgaged. so paul we have another flurry of legal filings that came in classified documents case, trump was pushing for outright dismissal of those 40 criminal charges against him that related to mar-a-lago. his list of arguments claim >> -- vindictive prosecution, prosecutorial misconduct, via lay should've got attorney client privilege, any compelling legal arguments there? >> absolutely none. he's making the same immunity argument to mar-a-lago that he made in the district of

columbia. he lost that case at the court of appeals. the reason the supreme court might take the case is based on the fact that he's making the same argument now from florida. the d.c. circuit opinion is not biden thing on florida. the law in this instance is pretty straightforward. he does not have the kind of absolute immunity before, during, and after his presidency that he has claimed. that again is not a hard case for most judges, with judge cannon again she seems kind of favorably inclines toward him, maybe it will be a harder issue -- other issues are just downright frivolous. he's claiming that the special counsel jack smith was improperly appointed, that's not right. and he's claiming he has this magic power to undo classify any document. there's no part of federal law that gives him that power. >> okay. duly noted. thank you very much, paul and josh, good to see you both. thank you. some new information about the murder of a college student in

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is already started in that state ahead of the primary this week, and the president held a campaign call just yesterday with michigan governor gretchen whitmer as well as the democratic party chair in michigan to talk about some of what's at stake in that state. we also know that the rip president reported two radio interviews with radio stations in michigan, and we expect they will be airing tomorrow. the governor there, a surrogate, a major circuit for biden, made appearances this morning on sunday morning talk shows and talked about her understanding of what is at stake in the state of michigan. we know that there is been an effort in that state to among democrats to get people in a community that has a significant share of palestinian, arab, muslim, and jewish communities to go to the polls this week and to vote on committed as opposed to voting for president biden in the primary as, a sign of their dissatisfaction with the presidents policies and actions as it relates to the israel hamas war. that is something that the campaign and campaign

surrogates have been trying to one, convince people that -- ultimately in the general election would be a vote for former president donald trump and they are trying to tell people that they understands they're anxious -- vote for president biden as opposed to the alternative which they say would mean fewer freedoms around the country. obviously we've seen this decision come out of alabama as it relates to ivf and we've also obviously seen the biden campaign really target former president trump for moves that he made to add to the supreme court that ultimately overturned roe v. wade. i want to hear from another surrogate for the biden campaign, this is pennsylvania governor josh shapiro talking about the freedoms that america stand to lose if there is a second trump administration. >> folks want more freedom, not less. i think folks don't want the chaos of donald trump and his offspring the way they continually bring that about

and i expect pennsylvania voters to do their parts to continue to protect and expand freedom and stand up against those extremists. >> and so we will be watching to see what happens in the spring swing state like pennsylvania, but obviously watching this week to see what happens in michigan when the presidents radio interview airs. we will be listening to hear whether how he addresses the concerns of these communities in michigan that have talked about their issues with his policies in israel and in gaza, as well as some of the other issues that the president has talked about in the past on the campaign trail as he's been trying to already shift towards the general election with donald trump. alex? >> you keep watching, we'll keep watching you asking you all about its. thank you so much aaron gilchrist at the white house. new information at at&t about what caused that major outage last week, after the break. ou last week, after the break. you would say that. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. my frequent heartburn had me

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