available as a podcast, you can listen to the show for free wherever you get your podcast, and that does it for me, thank you for spending these hours on your weekend with me, you can catch me back here next saturday and sunday morning from 10:00 until noon:00 -- noon as donald trump's criminal trial errors towards him. he posted an image on social media depicting joe biden tied up and gagged in the back of a truck. my first guest today says it

could be a federal crime and a violation of his bond conditions. colorado secretary of state says that she has seen a 600% increase in threatening messages since she took on the ex-president over the 14th amendment. we are joined live in just a few minutes. the show starts right now. of this week began like so many others with donald trump pushing the limits of our legal system. it ended with him once again embracing political violence. on friday trump posted a video to truth social including an image of president joe biden found and restrained in the back of a pickup truck. that video which we are intentionally choosing not to show you is just the latest example of trump promoting violence and dehumanizing imagery. this time directed at the

sitting president of the united states, and that calved a week in which the judge in his trial imposed a gag order on the former president barring him from attacking prosecutors, court staff, witnesses, and jurors. >> he wrote it was necessary because the defendants prior statements establishes a sufficient risk to the administration of justice and there exists no less restrictive means to prevent such risk. he went on to note that trump has a history of making threatening statements. in this case as well as and others. and that they undoubtedly risk impeding the order the administration of the court. less than 24 hours after that a gag order was imposed trump repeatedly lashed out at the judge. calling him biased and conflicted, and he also went after the judges daughter by

name. among other disparaging comments, trump falsely accused her of posting a photo of him behind bars. claiming that it proves he cannot get a fair trial. the key phrase there is falsely accused. the new york state court says that the account of that posted this photo no longer belongs to the judges daughter pick she deleted the account a year ago, and someone else has since taken it over. it is unclear who that is, but it is not the judges daughter. trump has continued to attack both of the judge and his daughter on social media over the weekend. the manhattan da is asking the judge to make abundantly clear that the gag order protects family members fixing the potential witnesses and prospective jurors are likely to fear attacks on themselves and their families. of course, all of this is the latest in a series of incendiary

attacks on the justice system as trump's legal troubles continue to mount. he has posted about special counsel hundreds of times calling him names like deranged. he has referred to but fulton county da fani willis in manhattan da as racist. he has gone after federal judge : her biased and unfair. he has attacked justices and the wife and his law clerk in the new york civil fraud case. his words have had real consequences. smith was the target of an attempted swatting. this office was sent threatening letters containing white powder. willis has said she has received violent and racist texts, phone calls, and emails. a woman was charged with threatening to kill this charge. this justices family and law clerk have all received a

deluge of credible threats, and that is just a sliver of what has transpired over the last several months as donald trump continues to attack the courts and his supporters continue to heed his calls. it has reached such a fever pitch that even sitting federal judges like u.s. district court judge walton have felt compelled to speak out. >> we do these jobs because we are committed to the role and we believe in the rule of law, and it can only function effectively when we have judges who are prepared to carry out their duties without the threat of potential physical harm. if we do not have a viable court system that is able to function efficiently we have tyranny. >> joint is a former general counsel at the fbi and a legal analyst. the cohost of the terrific

msnbc podcast rescued in donald trump. just last night trump posted once again on social media about the judges daughter. posting this time a link to an article that prominently featured a photo of her. there are no coincidences. he is on the eve of his first criminal trial. do you think he is trying to get him into doing something that he could use as ammunition for recusal? >> i do not think there is any basis on the recusal front. you do not get to go to somebody into recusal. you could into requiring that you have tighter restrictions up to and including be remanded to go to jail, but i do not think that he would be able to claim later that there should be a recusal because the judge responded to the litany of things that you just said. i actually think it is about

time that you have judges speaking out. as you know, i think the way to look at this is you see the attacks on the media and the department of justice. you now of course see attacks on the judicial system because that is what is holding donald trump and beginning to hold him to account civilly and criminally, so of course he is lashing out in the same way he has against all of those other forces whether it is the media or no judges, and i think they have every right to speak out. i think prosecutors actually up to including attorney general garland should be speaking out about this. i do not think this is normal times were you say i will just speak in court. i think it's important not to have unilateral disarmament and

for them to understand what is going on and just how unusual this is. we both know to have a federal judge are going on the airways is a signal of just how severe this thread is to the rule of law. >> the manhattan da has asked in a promotion letter for the judge to clarify or confirm that the gag order applies to film the members of the court. the trump team has responded with an objection to any expansion. explained for the viewers with the da is asking for here. there is some specificity in that gag order that was entered thursday, but do you think is the language is currently included in this order that it would necessarily include somebody like the judges family members? >> i think there are two issues for weather donald trump has sanctions that could be imposed right now. one issue is whether his conflict is covered by the

conditions sent by him and his so-called gag order. i think there is no question that it's not broad enough to cover the judge or the judges family. it simply was not put in the gag order that the judge entered, so you cannot find a violation of something that is not covered, but that is not the only possible ground for finding that he has violated something here, and that is that a standard condition of being out on bail applies in new york and in the d.c. federal case in the georgia state case. that you not commit a crime while you are out on bail. you know this very well. it is in fact i remember the d.c. case being on air when the magistrate judge warned him that the most important condition for him was that he

not commit a crime. threatening the president of the united states is a crime, so the question would be the legal and factual question whether what he has engaged in with respect to posting the image of joe biden bound and gagged with what appears to be a bullet hole in his head constitutes that kind of threat. the same thing could be true under new york law with respect to judges or family members and personnel. sort of an independent ground. the one thing that is clear is that he has every right to bring the donald trump into hold a hearing on what his intent was because through his actions and obviously to tighten up dramatically that gag orders so that there is no

threat not just to the judge and his family members, but remember this as a spillover effect of a jury and also for witnesses and prospective jurors. they are looking at what is going on. just ask if you are a potential juror are you going to say i want to be on this trial when my name would be known by donald trump and his confederates? are you going to feel threatened and intimidated by having to take the stand and telling the truth? this is all a reason i am confident the judge is thinking about this not just in terms of his self and family but about protecting the rule of law. exactly the clip that you played it is what is going to be animated judges and prosecutors to take steps to make sure that our system of law is safe with respect to the former president of the united states who is attacking the very foundation of the rule of law.

>> we have had unprecedented measures taken to protect their identities and some of his cases. the level of an amenity between jurors themselves when they are being told and even civil cases they were not even supposed to tell each other what their true names were. only supposed to go by numbers. i want to ask before we take a quick break about this. i posted this on my social media. whereby a leader vilifies a person or them likely to instigate random supporters to attack those targets while the instigator maintains a veneer of plausible deniability. nobody has to read between the lines. i think everybody clearly knows who i am talking about, but don't you think trump has crossed that line of plausible deniability? the idea of i am reposting things or i'm just putting something up in my political free speech or pursuit and protection of my first amendment rights.

>> i could not agree more. just remember that might have been plausible the first time or the second time he did this. when you see that you have this repeated call and response affect he cannot keep saying i just called and i was shocked. that is everything about what he is charged with in connection with this case. there is much more than that leading up to it, but those events were the quintessential call and response charge here where he knows darn well how people are going to respond. that is why you can very much have a hearing where the judge can bring the parties in and basically have the former president testified about what happened and what he was thinking. if he does not want to testify that is fine, but then he can take the facts as

sent out by the government. going to be cross-examined by the defense. he can make a finding, but i agree that we are way down the road to claim possible denied that he. at this point i would say it is implausible. >> i have so much more to talk about, so stick around with us for another block. coming up the latest attorneys in trump world to face major consequences for their roles in the plot to steal the election. we are going to break it all done when we return. when you'e a small business owner, your to-do list can be...a lot. ♪♪ [ cellphone whooshes ] [ sighs ] that's why progressive makes it easy to save with a commercial auto quote online so you can take on all your others to-dos.

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this week two of the trump's lawyers fix actual accountability. on wednesday john eastman, the author of the infamous eastman memo, the plan to throw the legitimate election results by using false claims was recommended for disbarment in california by a judge on the state hearing department. after a full process including witnesses and testimony they wrote the evidence clearly and convincingly proves the entered

into an agreement to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6. he is now on what is known as involuntary inactive status. the recommendation agosta the california supreme court who will ultimately decide if he will be permanently disbarred. across the country in washington dc the former civil lawyer who headed up the environment and natural resources division of the department of justice who they briefly flirted with installing as the acting attorney general in order to launder his election lies and in fact according to clark's on lawyer for a few brief hours was the acting attorney general. facing his own disciplinary hearing for his role in his coup attempt. that is not me using that language. that is the language of the washington dc office of disciplinary counsel. the ongoing disciplinary hearing will determine if he

will be sanctioned or disbarred. as a former attorney i want to be clear these kind of disciplinary hearings are not a regular thing. when a disciplinary body does get involved like this everyone can agree that something very wrong has happened. we have not seen this accountability get in criminal courts, but they both might soon face that. there but codefendants in a sprawling rico case in georgia. those are there mugshots. in the meantime this accountability is important. it shows that even among the professional peers the conduct of trump's lawyers was beyond the pale. our msnbc legal analyst is back with me. i always say don't sleep on the civil cases. we have seen how poorly that has turned out. the other thing is the lawyers who are the enablers in trump world.

providing coverage and the legitimacy that i think for some of the five things that are done to allow him to enter into our judicial halls. for the nonlawyers help explain why this is such a big deal. >> this is very unusual. i have to say as a current lawyer it is really nice to see. this is a process where to join the bar. to be able to practice law you have to be licensed. if you do something that is in violation of that the profession itself has a process to decide whether there should be come kind of censure or reprimand or up to including you should be disbarred. no longer entitled to the privilege of practicing law in that state, so it's really nice

to see that the bar is taking seriously what is required of people who have the privilege of practicing in our profession. if you engage in a crime as was found here with respect to mr. eastman of seeking to obstruct a counting of votes in the presidential election you can imagine why a judge would say that is something you should not be practicing law any more. a standard she applied here was clear and convincing evidence and usually it is more likely than not to get into the legal leads.

the court found that it had been shown to that extent and notably said that he had engaged in the conduct with the former president, so you now have a judge saying there is clear and convincing evidence not just with affect to him but also after a hearing and witnesses and cross examination found it was true with respect to the former president himself. this is a measure of accountability. it is long overdue but it may be the only forum in which we hear this kind of accountability with respect to the january 6th events and the facts leading up to what we have before the general election. >> we have a a co-conspirator in their, so let's see what

happens with them. thank you for joining us on the special edition. i appreciate it. coming up. the contrast between president biden and donald trump continues to get more starkville biden just hosted a record-breaking fundraiser. donald trump is grafting off of vitals. my friend rick wilson joins me next. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪ ♪ relax into a caribbean state of mind. visit sandals.com or call 1-800 sandals.

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substantial advantage for the biden campaign which has more than double of trump's cash on hand. in contrast we have seen donald trump increasingly resort to unsavory marketing gimmicks not only to bolster his campaign covers but his personal finances as well. first it was a trump branded gear like golden sneakers and perfume all sold through his most ardent supporters. know he's been trying to profit off of holy week in the run up to easter peddling $60 bibles to his faithful. if you have not already seen his sales pitch is about as shameless as it gets. >> all americans need a bible in their home and i have many. it is my favorite book. we love god and have to protect anything that is pro-god. i think you all should get a copy of god bless the usa bible now and help spread our christian values with others. >> i am surprised it is not upside down.

he has many bibles in his own. of course it is pretty sorted for a presidential candidate to moonlight as a bible salesman but trump is clearly trying and all of the above approach right now, and that reportedly includes a delicate portion of billionaire potential donors who could soon come to his rescue. that is according to the washington post which reports that elite donors who once balked at his fueling of the capital insurrection are rediscovering their affinity for the former president. next month trump is planning a fundraiser to be hosted by a range of billionaires. the tickets will cost a quarter of $1 million each. joining now is the cofounder of the lincoln project. happy easter to you and to yours. i am happy to report i do not

have a trump bible, but it's okay. i am doing just fine today. fundraising is one place he has had a clear advantage, but trump threatens to close that that money gap. you have been predicting that these billionaires that shunned him after january 6 would flock back to him. why are they so ready to line up again behind him? >> they want to tell you it's about the tax-cut promises of donald trump. really it's about the fact they are largely herd animals. they are like gazelles is standing by a river. when one sees a crocodile they all run away. now they understand that some of their larger numbers are going to go back. all of these major players who really aesthetically dislike him. who hate him in fact. they understand though that there is a possibility that joe biden might somehow raise their taxes by a fraction of a percent, so they are losing

their minds about that. it's also about the fact that they are afraid of donald trump and that if his secretary decides if they do not sufficiently support and they will come down on their various investment banking firms and hedge funds and et cetera but that is something that concerns a lot of them. >> in a political column on friday jonathan martin questioned why president biden has not reached out to chris christie to ask were his support given that he is such a prominent trump critic. he called it political malpractice noting he is not the only anti- trump republican or independent that is waiting for their phone to ring. should he be more proactive. ? is there a value to somebody like chris christie saying not only do not endorse trump but i am not voting for him. >> there is a mosaic of different parts of the republican and former republican party that are waiting to be asked and waiting to be able to say the president is bigger than my politics or ideology. it is about democracy and

america or trump. he made a personal ask. there probably a dozen people at that level for each of them represents a little different faction of this anti-trump republican conservative movement. of you should be making those calls. i hope he is. maybe we have not heard about it yet, but i think you should be because what i am seeing now is the operations of the campaign are doing well. if you could show republicans who could stand out there and say this is my record for years be we are not trying to convert the whole party. we are not trying to convert all of the red hat guys. we are trying to convert those republicans who have walked away from trump in 16 and 20 and who really understand the threat he poses. the president could do a lot to make this get more momentum, and i think it would be a very wise strategy for him to do so.

>> in terms of a wise strategy what have we seen this week? we have seen the biden campaign releasing an ad in order to target former supporters of nikki haley. let's take a quick listen right now. >> she has gone crazy. she is a very angry person. >> i-290 the votes. we have all of the votes we need. >> let's be clear. it is a great ad, but i am not holding my breath for nikki haley to come and endorse it joe biden. what is the best way to take that at and convert it in the ballot boxes? >> there are a number of groups we have identified of republicans were not going to vote for donald trump that need a little more push and persuading, and the biden campaign can do that by

continuing to show who donald trump is. a lot of them do have some hesitation about joining joe biden because the party gravitational pull is very strong. there are ways to talk to them to show them he is not going to be insane. that he is not a character on fox news of the communist joe biden. it is absurd of course, but he has to keep the message up because there is a way to pull a lot of these voters in. they are talking about reducing the availability of birth control. there is a cohort of republican

women and men in general x and millennial's with young daughters that are livid about this, so there is a big group out there for the anti-trump movement. folks across the spectrum and the biden campaign to talk to pete they are out there waiting to be talked to. they are listening for it. they are not pro-trump, but they need a little bit of a push to go to joe biden. >> republicans are in birth control pill they get abortions and they do ivf too. happy easter. thank you for being here. up next. perfect timing. it has been almost 2 years since the supreme court overturned roe versus wade, and since then voters have made one thing clear. women's rights are not to be messed with.

we saw no evidence of that this week and one of the reddest states in the country. color the secretary of state will join me to talk to the alarming increase in violent threats she has received since she attempted to disqualify trump from the ballot. we are back after a quick break. bed is only $1,599. save $300. shop now at sara federico: at st. jude, we don't care who cures cancer.

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cure rates all around the world, but we should. it is our commitment. we need to do this. here is an important thing to remember as we head towards november be when abortion rights are on the ballot abortion-rights win. since overturning roe versus wade voters in six different states have all back constitutional amendments to increase sx to abortion. last year in wisconsin and democratic backed candidate won a seat on the state supreme court after campaigning on

abortion-rights. and virginia democrats won control of the state assembly by pledging to protect abortion access. this week the trend continues in deep red alabama. where the democrat flipped a statehouse seat and defeated her republican opponent by 25 points . the campaign was on increasing access to abortion as well as ivf. well her gop opponent was trying to avoid the issue. to give a sense of just how important this is for the voters across the country a new poll showed that nearly 60% believe that abortion should be legal in all or most cases. whether it is blue states or purple states or deep red state voters are clearly motivated by reproductive rights, and that could decide the presidential election. joining me now. good to see you, molly. let's start in alabama. flipping the seat in the

statehouse about after a month after the ruling on ivf. have significant is this? are we making too much about it? i think it's actually significant that she won, and had to be interpreted in terms of the broader political landscape? >> alabama is really interesting because remember they recently had a situation where they all had to start practicing ivf. the clinics shut down because of this loss. alabama has really been on the front lines of this kind of reproductive republican war on women, so i do think it is meaningful and that way. i would say that what we have to go on as we talk about politics. we have previous elections and polls. that is it. that is how we can see what they are doing. the previous elections are

pretty meaningful. especially in deep red states like alabama. i think it's important. this is a very useful and important one. >> let's talk about something that is going on in terms of the ivf issues. there is something really insidious going on here related to that. this piece that is titled the endgame and the battle over abortion by mersey and when the time is right to these groups will argue that original azam requires state and federal courts to hold that personhood under the constitution beginning the moment it's fertilize. if that comes the key question remaining for many proponents would be clear who will be punished for harming these persons and how much. the decision out of alabama was scary and now we are seeing that this push to have fetal personhood be something that is recognized with punitive punishment coming on the end of it. that is really the endgame.

punishing women over exercising the reproductive rights. >> she is one of the smartest legal scholars writing about this today. she really has her finger on the pulse of what is happening. basically the whole theory was republicans started with heartbeat laws with this idea that a 12 week embryo was somehow or as soon as you can see the electromagnet that a heartbeat that was a hard, which of course it wasn't, but okay. now they have moved on a little bit. to the idea that is pretty wild, and they are all in on this idea. you go to the website and they say that babies should not be

thrown away at any age. they have a plan. you go to the website and they want to regulate ivf. they want to make it so that you can't. if you look at the law in alabama you see that they did not say they aren't people. they just indemnified it. which is in itself pretty wild. this is where this is going. if you listen to the oral arguments they did not have any standing to put this case against them trying to overturn the fda approval process. they were going with it. if you heard them they were trying to reenact it. this 18th- century act that prevents you from sending pornography in the

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there are new headlines every week about trump's violent rhetoric and his online attacks despite gag orders and countless attempts to stop him. he just keeps going.

one devastating consequence of his continued inflammatory rhetoric is how it emboldens his supporters. they listen to what he says. just ask of the colorado secretary of state. she became a lightning rod for the rights of vitriol after she joined with colorado residents in their efforts to keep him off the ballot. rolling stone reported this week in the seven months since then the number of serious threats against her have increased more than 600%. a lot of those threats are too gruesome and inappropriate to put on tv, but here are a couple just to give you a sense of what she is facing. and one voicemail someone said i cannot wait to find the and follow you to your house and expose your address. another person left a voicemail saying i would love for you to die to someone else told her on social media take my advice and wear kevlar. a lot of kevlar. joining me now is colorado secretary of state jenna griswold.

it is always a pleasure to have you, but in this instance i am sorry that we have to have this conversation. i have to ask first of all how are you and your family doing? do you feel like your safety is the most important thing right now? >> good morning or good afternoon. depending on the time zone. happy easter. it is unfortunate to have this conversation. i think it's necessary because the bigger picture is that anybody who stands up to them as barraged with threats and a lot of us standing up happened to be women, so they are not only violent but sexist in nature. make no mistake this is a part of the strategy to spend as much disinformation as possible to pass the voter suppression laws and to try to scare them out of

their positions. we have seen the threats to election workers be somewhat successful. here in colorado alone we had a 38% turnover of elected county clerks since 2020 in part because of the vitriol. so we cannot allow this strategy to go unchecked or unnoticed. that is why i think it's important to have these conversations. >> your team has tallied nearly 800 serious threats against you . the rolling stone article we just talked about notes that only two men have actually been prosecuted. what do you make of that particular statistic and the chilling effect it has on election workers? >> to be very clear, the men who were prosecuted were not a part of this current threat barraged. i started to receive threats and 2021 after the insurrection, and they go up and down. of course with the supreme

court case in september we saw a huge uptick, but the bigger picture is that many of these threats are not taken seriously. the secretaries of state and election workers are told repeatedly when people say they're going to hang us or kill us or our families that the threats aren't real. we consistently have to fight for sufficient security, and you just have to look at the rate that the special task force on election threats to officials. they have only prosecuted 20 cases since 2021. so there is a definite feeling among the secretaries of state and election officials that this is not a serious matter for many, and i would just like to clearly state to federal and state officials and to the doj that it is time to wake up. no one should have to live in this type of atmosphere.

election workers when they are threatened they are largely volunteers, and it is ridiculous that we are not seeing more prosecutions in this country, and more invested in the security of election officials and secretaries of state. >> you recently announced you kind of created a grant program to be able to increase security. that is one of several measures that can be taken. what you say to others that are also being threatened? as you said, a lot of them are doing this on a volunteer basis but they believe in democracy and the protection of it. what you tell them to make sure that they keep on going and they are not terrified or intimidated to stay away from condemning to be an active participator in democracy? >> i have to tell you first off that it is scary. when someone is repeatedly telling you how they are going to kill you.

you're going to have to take it seriously. with that said, we cannot be intimidated. i will not be intimidated and have never changed my decision meeting out of fear. what i would say to state government officials is you need to increase your laws as quickly as possible. and colorado i led efforts to make it a crime to threaten election workers. we made it a crime to docs election workers. a crime to open carry close to the ballot boxes. at the same time, we really need folks to been in and prosecute when possible, and to believe us when we are saying the threat environment is strong , and to tell you that the majority of election workers are women. the majority of secretaries of state who have received this high threat content are women, and i do think it is a big

problem because you intersect gender with believing officials who are telling you why they are being threatened. the last thing i would say to those officials is that they have not stepped down. people who have decided they cannot move forward have been replaced of course with other election officials. at the end of the day i think it's so important to recognize a famous quote, but a truism. courage does not mean that you do not have fear. current is continuing forward regardless of the fear. that is what we have to do as a nation. >> true words have never been spoken. i appreciate your willingness to take the time to have the transparency about the fact that there is fear and also still courage in this process. thank you for joining me today.

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