♪ ♪ [sfx] water lapping. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [sfx] water splashing. ♪ ♪ [sfx] ambient / laughing. ♪ ♪ thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. i have a quick thing to tell you at the top. do you have your phone with

you? your phone has an app on it that you may or may not ever use. but it is called podcasts or some version of that. whatever kind of phone you have, there is an app on your phone for podcasts. if you open up that app and search for my name, if you search for maddow, one of the things that coming up is ultra. i made a podcast called ultra. it did well. won a journalism award. steven spielberg bought the rights so it, so it will be a steven spielberg movie. the screen play is being written now. ultra did great. we are really proud of it. but the reason i am suggesting you go to your podcast app today is as of today, there is a season two of ultra. it is finally ready. we just put out the two-minute trailer for season two of ultra today. so you can listen to that now.

click there to follow the show, it means you get every episode when they come out. it's free. this will be eight episodes total. i will tell you ultra season two is a little bit scary. it is also kind of funny. trailer is out today. first episode comes out monday so i wanted to say that off the top. the trailer is finally up. been working on it for a long time. i'll tell you more about what it is about next week when we have the first full episode coming up. oh, and another thing i'm supposed to tell you. it is free to listen to the whole podcast and follow the show. but if you want to, you can pay $9.99 a month for msnbc premium. $2.99 a month. that gives you all the episodes a few days earlier than everybody else gets them and you'll have no ads when you are listening. msnbc premium is a new thing. you sign up for that at apple

podcasts if you want. okay, that's really it. i will leave you alone about that. because now i want to talk about something crazy that happened in michigan. all right, this was on thursday in michigan. on thursday, last week, you might remember something was going on. the country was sort of distracted. every news organization when donald trump had a verdict. the jury found him guilty on all 34 charges. he totally melted down. earning what i think was the headline for the ages from that day. convicted, trump blames judge, jury, and country gone to hell. what a nice man. what a leader. but while that was happening in new york, there was a big

surprise in michigan. now, do you remember seeing this tape? this was from right after the 2020 election. it was december 14 of 2020. this really appear today be a crime being committed there on tape. and an important crime. these are republicans in michigan showing up at the door of the state capitol, demanding that they be let inside because they insisted that they were michigan's votes for the electoral college. since december 14th was the day all the states were casting their votes, these guys demanded to be let in to cast michigan's electoral college votes for trump. which is not the way it works because trump lost michigan and biden won. but these republicans were pretending to be the real electors and demanding to be let in. and that police officer stopped them. and he was very polite.

he was like, the soul of patience. very kind to them. he was very, very firm with them.

>> he is so patient. the electors are here and you're not them. he stops them from what they were going to do. get themselves into the state capitol. that was in 2020. that was the middle of the effort to try to overturn the election results and have trump stay in power though he lost. i say that looked like a crime being committed and an important one because those fake electors have been criminally indicted for what they did there. for conspiracy to commit forgery and election law forgery. the 16 fake trump electors were all charged with those felony counts. and in that criminal case in michigan, there were 11 other people besides the fake electors who were listed as unindicted coconspirators in that same case including former president trump himself and his then lawyer rudy giuliani who has since had his law license

removed. the prosecutor described trump's status in the michigan case by saying quote he is a part of the investigation. but he hasn't been charged with a crime yet. hasn't been charged yet. in court proceedings on that criminal case. because there are felony charges pending against the fake electors themselves. last week, there was testimony from that particular police official. the same guy who had to personally bar the door of the state capitol when they were trying to get in. on thursday, while trump was being convicted in his new york criminal case, he, this michigan state police captain now, he was being interviewed by the fbi and by federal prosecutors from washington dc. wait a second. i thought he was testifying in a state case. a state criminal case that has been brought against those fake

electors, yes, he was, but he testified he had just been in touch with federal prosecutors and the fbi. so in that michigan fake elector's prosecution, michigan is one of four states where they are pending. prosecutor says he is not charged under michigan law. we find out in surprise testimony that federal prosecutors as of right now, as of thursday, are interviewing people who saw what happened with the attempted overthrow of the election in michigan. there haven't been federal charges brought in michigan. right? trump is already facing federal criminal charges for trying to

overthrow the government and stay in power after losing the 2020 election. those charges were brought in dc. but it would appear that federal investigation into that overall matter is still open. if federal prosecutors from dc and the fbi are still investigating and still interviewing people right now. if they are doing so, and according to that police captain's testimony they are, i would guess the fbi and federal prosecutors are still looking into the michigan fake electors matter. there is already the federal criminal indictment against donald trump, maybe these interviews with important figures in this matter in michigan indicates the possibility of a superseding federal indictment. maybe additional charges for the same defendant who has already been charged. trump may be potentially adding more defendants to it. we do not know. but, that michigan state case

is still open and ongoing and it is apparently a matter of active investigation by federal prosecutors and the fbi as well. knock me over with a feather right? that was unexpected for me. it is a reminder that things may not unfold the way any of us is expected. and you may think you are sort of running through the tape in this stuff and you look ahead and realize there's a lot more tape and lots more intervals. i mean, who knows how this is going to unfold. and for how long. this is the first former president to ever be criminally indicted. then he got criminally indicted three more times. he was the first former president to face a criminal trial. then he became the first former president ever convicted of a felony. then he was convicted of two felonies, then three, then four, then ultimately 34. he is named as an unindicted coconspirator in the criminal case against arizona republicans who helped try to overthrow the election result

ins that state. he is named as an unindicted coconspirator in the case in michigan as well. things are not necessarily going to unfold the way we are expecting. and none of this is over. yes, if trump gets elected in november, that's one thing. but if he loses in november, this is all going to go on for a very long time in lots of different places which is important for us to think about as a country. because we have a legal system that we use for all sorts of things. including for holding people accountable for when they try to overthrow the government. and we have now got not just trump and his most rabid followers, but we have now got a whole republican party that is on the record, deeply and radically invested in delegitimizing the american legal system in the eyes of the

american people. which means in practical terms, that the people who end up, it is by choice, sometimes it's not. these people are going to need protecting in an ongoing way. stormy daniels to whom the push money payment was made that was falsely booked in trump's business record which is why he was convicted of 34 felonies. stormy daniel has done her first interview since the verdict. and in that first interview, you can see that she is just, an emotional interview. you can see she is overwhelmed in particular by the revelation though this one trump case is over, this whole thing is never going to be over for her. >> it is not how i feel. it is how i don't feel.

i am obviously glad of the verdict. it proves i was telling the truth. that i was not paid for sex. it was not a prostitution job. i was not an escort or a prostitute. but i guess i just thought i would put the bow on the package and it would be all tied up and good. the good part is, i don't have to go to court again because that's never fun. you always feel like you are the bad guy even when you are not. because being on the stand is intimidating with all the jurors looking at you. i'm glad some stuff came out in court that i wanted to come out. and it proved like i said, i have been telling the truth the entire time. but at the same time, emotionally, it is not over. it is probably i realize, it is probably never going to be over

for me. he has the patience of a saint. and he is brave i think. i know what his life is going to be like in the immediate future. i fear for the jurors as well. i fear for the jurors as well. nbc news reporting that the other main prosecution witness in the trump criminal trial michael cohen has since the verdict had his whole family doxed. people have posted street addresses for his wife and children and other identifying information. nbc news reported in the immediate wake of the verdict, pro trump message boards posted a high volume of violent threats toward the prosecutor and the judge in the new york

case including what purported to be the home address of the district attorney alvin bragg and the home addresses for some of the jurors from the case. this is what it is like for people who are part of a legal system. and this is an ongoing thing. this is not going away. there's lots of pending cases against trump. and, these threats and the harassment and intimidation of people who are involved, witnesses, jurors, prosecutors, court personnel. the intimidation campaign

against everyone they have involved. they circulated the purported names and photographs of members of the grand jury in fulton county georgia. this year before trump was convicted in march and april. reuters counted at least 152 posts on three pro trump websites. urging the beating or killing of judge merchan or judge mcafee. one january 6th convict who has served his prison sentence taking part in the trump mob attack, he posted on twitter. a noose. it is designed to make the

legal system unworkable when it comes to trump. it is designed to make people more willing to participate in the system if trump is involved in the case. they want you to fear for your life and the live of your family. that's the basic idea behind it. right? we are all supposed to be so scared of what he will do. we are supposed to be so scared of how crazy his supporters will go, to be safe, we should let him do whatever he wants. anything that annoys him or holds him back or punishes him for what he has done, they will get so mad and we should be so scared of what he will do. because oh, you wouldn't like them when they're mad. trump was asked about his potentially being sent to

prison when he gets sentenced next month. he said this in response. he said quote, i don't know that the public would stand for it. i'm not sure the public would stand for it. i think it would be tough for the public to take. at a certain point, there is a breaking point. he is saying you jail me, there will be a breaking point. the public won't stand for it. sounds like a threat right? it is a threat. he wants us all to feel threatened. he makes the same threat all the time. september, 2022 after the fbi served the search warrant, he said i don't know how much more our country will be willing to withstand. two months later, december, 2022, all caps. the people of this country are not going to take it much longer. then he was asked about the possibility of him being criminally indicted. he said i think you will have problems in this country the likes of which we have never seen before. i don't think the people of the united states would stand for

it. i this i they would have big problems. i don't think they would stand for it. in march, 2023, he said if he was indicted, it would rain down death and destruction. that he said would be catastrophic for our country. death and destruction if he were indicted. then he was indicted. then, last summer after he was indicted, he was asked about a possible prison sentence. he say theres will be civil war level catastrophic violence if anything happens to him. like an indictment or an arraignment which has happened multiple times. like a conviction which has happened 34 times. every step of the way, he has

made the same threat. death and destruction, like nothing the country has ever seen before. it was not actually what they do. it is not actually how the country feels. most people in this country think the verdict was the right thing. the country is not rising up en masse to defend him. the country thinks, he committed crimes and it makes sense he was convicted of them. these threats that if anything happens to him in the legal system, the country won't stand for it and there will be mass violence and there will be blood in the streets and there will be riots. that is not happening. what is happening is his followers are terrorizing individual people.

involved in the legal process. and the republican party at the highest level and with almost total uniformity is simultaneously telling the american people that the american legal system is bunk and they shouldn't respect or trust it and republicans at the state level are not just tolerating and trying to get away with election crimes to help trump, criminal election subversion is now being celebrated and rewarded even in places where criminal prosecutions of these folks are ongoing. places like arizona and nevada. fake trump electors are charged with felonies there. but the accused felons have been given new jobs. state representatives to the republican national committee. they have done the same with one of the fake electors in wisconsin. where republicans are trying to recall a state legislative leader who acted with insufficient fervor to overthrough the election results in wisconsin when biden

won that state and trump lost. in nevada, two of the states' official electors for the 2024 election will be people who are currently under indictment for what they did as fake electors in the last election. in the republican party right now, january 6th defendants are hostages and hero who's will be fully and immediately pardoned. fake electors will be new party leaders. brave souls who said no to the coup. people who democrats and normal people briefly tried to lionize for their bravery. they are rejected. while prosecutors and judges and witnesses and jurors are hounded and threatened daily. this is not something about which you can put your head down and wait it out. because these cases are going to go on and on. but we are in a moment where

the burden of intimidation and harassment and threat and violence, the burden of what is going on in the trump movement is terroristic. it is not mass violence. the burden of what is being threatened against our fellow americans is falling disproportionately on on a small number of people. to try to pick them off. in order to intimidate the whole country. there isn't a civil war. there isn't a riot. i was promised there would be riots if trump were convicted. there were no riots. there hasn't even been a good sized trump protest in years. they are not using mass action. they are using targeted harassment and threats toward specific people to try to cow all of us. to make us all scared of anything that holds trump to account and punishes him for

committing crimes. so the solution to that is not rocket science. it is not complex. it's like a couple of things fairly obviously. one, we defend more than we have been. the people being intimidated and harassed and threatened, because they are standing in for all of us. we as a country will change our behavior. we will in the words of tim snyder's book, we will advance, we will cower and try to make sure we only do things that make trump happy. because we are so scared of the response. there are individual people who are bearing the brunt of terroristic intimidation by the pro trump movement that is designed to carol all scare all

of us. if we don't stand up for those people, it is a self-fulfilling prophesy. they can all be protected. second. we have a report coming up live from michigan where the testimony from the end of last week opened a spotlight on the fact that there might be further federal criminal charges related to the efforts to overthrow the election. we should not cower about the prospect that trump and his supporters will get mad if trump is held to account. yes, they will be mad. more federal charges could be brought. if so, so be it. there is no reason anybody should shy away are the that. more state charges may yet be brought. there are open investigations,

not guilty just in michigan, but in some of the other states, they have pronounced trump to be an unindicted coconspirator. they said the investigation is ton going. in more states, there may yet be more state charges. if that is where investigations lead, so be it. no reason anybody should shy from that. we are at a moment when the republican party says the legal system doesn't work. the criminals are the heros. everybody involved in making the legal system work should feel fear for their lives. the country should rain down fire if he faces any more legal consequences. the republican party is wrong about that and trump is wrong about that. our system is strong. and so are we. and so are we. watch me. with cascade platinum plus i have upped my dish game. i just scrape... load...

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this is nbc nightly news with lester holt. reporting tonight from the democratic national convention in philadelphia. >> good evening, on the eve of

their big convention, they have been rocked by a bomb shell. the head of the democratic national committee resigning under fire in the face of an uproar over a batch of emails made public by wikileaks. >> that was eight years ago, 2016 election. that is how the democratic national convention started. there was already friction in the party between the clinton's reporters and supporters. it was like putting gasoline on a smoldering fire. and the chair of the party quit the night before the convention started. >> suggesting that the dnc favored clinton. >> it is something we have all known all along. it has been corrupt. they have been hiding things. >> reporter: the clinton campaign blaming russia for

hacking. >> other experts are saying the russians are releasing these emails for the purpose of helping donald trump. >> they released the emails through wikileaks. a tried and true russian strategy. they exacerbated it to cause maximum chaos. to help their chosen proponent. so, as we head into the summer of another election year, with democratic leaders, the sheer worrying about plans for protest at the party's convention in august in chicago, there is a growing expectation that the same actors. i say this not just because of 2016, but because of what is going on in 2024.

russia has been really feeling its oats recently in terms of election interference in europe. russian patrols have flooded the zone with fake news sites and damaging deep fake videos. they have been pushing inflammatory disinformation aimed at inflaming european divisions over issues like the war in ukraine. european intelligence services says they have funded hundreds of thousand euros to hard right politicians. paying them to plant kremlin propaganda in western media outlets, boosting pro russia candidates in the process. russia is really scaling it up.

>> this is just a target rich stew for the russians to try lots of things and see what works. joining us now is reporter tom schuba at the chicago sun times. it's a pleasure to have you here. thank you very much for being here. >> hey, rachel, thanks for having me. >> so the experts you talked to, are they expecting this in the abstract or are they seeing things happening in the news environment that make them anticipate this kind of interference with the democrats? >> i think they are anticipating this generally. right? there is anticipated to be tons of protest. battles over permits already happening. the idea is this looks like something russia could exploit. and something the experts could

have told us here. >> i know that democrats have been speaking with confidence including to you and your colleagues at the sun times. is it your sense, are you hearing from democratic officials from convention planners that they are sort of on the alert for malign efforts like the ones you and your colleagues describe today. >> we haven't heard that from planning officials and the chicago police department. people coming up with the protest zone. these were more from us having this idea that hey, foreign influence campaign had such a huge impact on the 2016 election. what is happening now, and so, we started to do research. and we started to as news

reporters do, pick up the phone and call very smart people who were experts. and kind of hear them out. a lot of what we heard. we have pro palestinian protesters targeting the president now. ishes with racial justice. the ground is set for russia to come in and do what they have done in the past. >> tom, thanks for your reporting on this. i appreciate it. >> sure rachel. much more news ahead. stay with us. stay with us.

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this was outside the

michigan state capitol december 2020. that scene ultimately led to the indictment of 16 alleged fake electors for donald trump in michigan. it led more recently to testimony in a michigan state courtroom on friday. this past friday. as reported in the detroit news, that same officer who turned the fake electors away at their door to the state capitol, he testified? court on friday he had quote been interviewed thursday by someone from the federal bureau of investigation and two prosecutors from washington dc. thursday was the day donald trump was found guilty of his hush money plot in 2016. that same day, federal investigators were interviewing michigan law enforcement in a sign that there is an active federal investigation into the michigan fake elector's scheme. as part of the same court hearings where this news came to light, we learned the state investigation in michigan may not have reached its conclusion

yet. the state investigator telling the court the michigan attorney general's office has outstanding subpoenas and search warrants as part of what he described as an ongoing state investigation into the michigan fake electors. he said it is still an open investigation. he also told the court at one point that investigators were treating the michigan state republican party headquarters as a quote crime scene. joining us now is craig, politics reporter for the detroit news. he has been reporting on the fake elector news out of michigan. thank you very much for being here. i appreciate you joining us. >> hey, thanks so much for having me. >> so this is sort of a sprawling case. there are 16 defendants. and there's been a lot of court proceedings already. not for all of them. but for most of them that are essentially designed to decide whether or not these charges are going to go ahead. it is a long process. it is a somewhat complex process given the number of

defendants. what do you feel like have been the major revelations from the court proceedings you have covered so closely thus far? >> i think you hit on a couple of them. this is ongoing. the attorney general's staff is trying to figure out what the guidance was that was provided to these 16 electors whose signatures ended up on this certificate claiming donald trump had won michigan 16 elector votes. the investigation is ongoing. there is a federal probe that is ongoing as you mentioned. the key thing here is the attorney general's office has to prove as part of his case to be successful, these individuals had an intent to defraud the public. the question is, did these individuals have that intent? or was someone essentially fooling them into signing this document not letting them know what the true purpose of the document was and turning it

around, taking their signatures and doing something different than what they had told them they were going to do? that's the crux of all of this. it is not their attempt at fraud, if it is someone else's, the question is whose was that and why have they not been charged so far? >> right. and to have the state prosecutors in michigan, the investigators say we have these 16 defendants but here are another 11 people unindicted coconspirators including the former president. they are painting a sprawling picture. but the charges haven't necessarily followed all of the all of the allegations. part of the reason i wanted to talk to you, i was surprised by this revelation you reported in court that there appear to be an ongoing federal investigation here. a federal investigation on top of what's going on with the state. do you have any sense from what has been disclosed in court what the contours might be of that federal investigation? >> well, the police captain who

revealed this, and everyone in the courtroom was surprised by this. the defense attorneys were surprised. even the judge used the word surprised to talk about this. statement that was made by the michigan police captain all of a sudden out of the blue is kind of a traditional line of questioning. who else have you talked to? and this police captain says oh, i talked to some people yesterday from washington dc. everyone froze for a second. what do you mean you talked to someone from washington dc yesterday? he said that this interview focused on the electors. this was an interview that lasted some amount of time talking about the fake electoral votes that the people brought to the doorstop of the michigan capital on december 14th, 2020. he said that they didn't ask about specific individuals. he had a list of names they asked about this person. it must have been from what i could tell from his testimony,

must have been overall what happened when you were at the doorstep. what happened? >> it was fbi, fbi personnel, and federal prosecutors. >> exactly right. >> wow. >> it's amazing. it is important to keep your old tape when you play a tape of something. hold onto it. you never know when the fbi will finally follow up on the crime that you aired on your tv show. craig, you have really helped us and the whole country follow the nitty-gritty of these stories as they have unfolded and they unfold in more and more important ways so we are grateful for you. thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> craig, politics reporter for the detroit news. all right. we'll be right back. stay with us. be right back. stay with us. good vision is more important than ever, but so is saving. that's why america's best includes a free eye exam when you buy two pairs of glasses for just $79.95. book an exam online today.

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y'all seeing this? wild! and i don't even have to activate anything. oooooohhh... automatic sashimi! earn cash back that automatically adjusts to how you spend with the citi custom cash® card. [mind blown explosion noise] i mentioned at the top of the show what we are seeing from republicans and trump supporters in the wake of trump's conviction in the wake of 34 felony counts has been two tiered. threats, harassment and intimidation to the individual people involved in the legal process who need protection. but also, threats for some sort of retribution. here is some of what that has looked like in the conservative media. >> they are the wolves with the bloody piece of meat in their mouth. that doesn't stop the wolf from coming back with more. the only thing that will stop

him is if he loses a limb of his own. >> all of these prosecutors want to take him down. be careful what you wish for. we are a country that was born of revolution. revolution is in our dna. we are fighters and i hope it is only at the ballot box. >> we'll get back up. we'll regain our strength. and we are going to vanquish the evil forces that are destroying this republic. >> stick to the goose and stick to the gander. i will encourage all of my colleagues, everybody i had any influence over as a member of congress, to aggressively go after the president, his entire family, his entire crime family. >> to build a wall around new york city. close off the bridges. and we will separate them from the united states of america. i'm only semiffacetious. >> donald trump should immediately create and publish a list of ten high ranking democrat criminals he will have arrested when he takes office.

first, joe biden, second, his crack head son and republican ags should pursue their own indictments. >> we want your fear. it will be accountability. we will hold everybody responsible that put this republic in the situation it is in today. >> we want your fear. we want your fear. arrest democrats. put a wall around new york city. that is how conservative media is reacting to the fact that a former president was tried in front of a jury of his peers and found guilty. and, for all that says about who we are as a country and the challenge we are facing now as a constitutional republic, this is also a clear marker about this next election. right? this is what one side is offering the public. so for everything else that says about us, honestly, if the democrats and liberals cannot make something out of that being the character of the opposition, this year in this election, we are in deeper

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her uncle's unhappy. the #1 i'm sensing anmmended underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for.

all right, that's going to do it for us tonight. >> we start with breaking news. today, eight months into israel's war in gaza. into israel's war in gaza. in gaza the world witnessed two very different realities. regardless of how you view the last few months of death and destruction what transpired in the city today raises a series