welcome to prime time weekend. i am nicolle wallace. let's get right to the week's top stories. in the study of criminal minds, it's actually not uncommon for an arsonist to knowingly return to the scorch -- scorched-earth he or she torched, to admire his or her work. what is uncommon is that the arsonist is not just been applied by the victims upon his return to the scene of the crime but being celebrated. today the trump fraud republican party showcased a version of this phenomenon. being showcased with house and senate republicans this afternoon three blocks from where he was arraigned last year in his efforts to overturn the 2020 election he lost, trumps trip to washington, d.c. today amounted to equal parts chest thumping, america bashing, more bizarre incoherent ramblings about dating nancy pelosi in the gop host city.

hannibal left -- lector kept coming up as well as trumps animosity for the department of justice. the aftermath of his 34 felony count conviction in new york. his first call was to, you guessed it, micah johnson. speaker of the house. now, trumps henchmen, many of whom showed up appearing in their matching red ties last month, are mobilizing not to pass any laws to help the american people, but in an all- out effort to protect trump and help him evade accountability. republican lawmakers are trying everything. they're being really creative, drawing up bills on jurisdiction, weaponizing appropriations and expanding blockades for president biden's appointees.

while republicans do everything except govern, everything in their power to help trump evade accountability, remember they did not always bow quite this low that donald trump's feet. >> we are on the verge of having someone take over the conservative movement and the republican party, who was i artist. >> i'm never a trump guy. i never liked him. >> all i can say is count me out. enough is enough. i've tried to be helpful. >> we were really trying hard to figure out, how do we hold the president accountable that put all of our lives at risk. >> there is no question, none, that president trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. no question about it. >> all those people are engaged in a project to make you think that we are crazy. they said those things. they said those things and then they fell into line.

democrats, for their part today, welcomed trump to capitol hill in a very different way. this mobile billboard, for instance, by the democratic committee had videotaped playing on a loop to remind the gop what exactly you have endorsed for president in 2024. 3.5 years later, the blood has been cleaned up, the broken glass has been swept away. the physical damage, repaired, but the disgrace in the trauma for the men and women of law enforcement murray protected the republicans and democrats that day endures. in fact, donald trump was protected this afternoon by some of the very same police officers and law enforcement officials who bravely stood between his violent supporters and those republican lawmakers who rolled out the red carpet for him today. this is well and truly trump republican party. so we start today for some of

our most favorite reporters and friends. von hilliard is back. also joining us, tim havey and the executive director of republican voters against trump, sarah longwell. sarah, i start with you because your pain matches or maybe exceeds mine and what all these men and women have become, because i was never on board. i never thought trump was a good idea. it has divided circles of former friends, divided family and friends and neighbors. i mean, i have always thought it was a bet with the devil but i guess the point that is, so did they. so did ted cruz. so did marco rubio. so did mitch mcconnell, but they did something very different today. do you understand why? >> do i understand why they're doing it? i mean, no. i can't, because i'm like you, right? i both thought trump was unfit

from the beginning, and took people like marco rubio and so many of the other candidates in 2016 -- ted cruz, doesn't matter, everybody was on our side back then. jd vance. they'll thought the exact same way we did. some of them called their selves never trumpers, like us and then we watch them for political expediency, for their own professional growth, not only do they tolerate trump, they celebrate him, become his biggest licks petals and toadies and there's something particularly painful about them cheering him as he returns to the capital where, as nancy mays said, he threatened their lives, and one of the things

that strikes me, you know, i run this group, republican voters against trump, and one of the number one reasons people who voted for trump twice say they will not vote for him again is because he lied about the results of the election, saying that it was stolen and then he fomented an insurrection and for a lot of these republicans, that was their redline. that was the end of it for them and the fact that these people are now willing to make videos, put their faces on videos saying absolutely not, trump is unfit, i won't vote for him, they have the courage to do that, they are willing to make that case but members of congress, people who purport to be devout christians, they are there to cheer donald trump, the guy who is morally and temperamentally responsible for the insurrection -- it is stomach churning and gas lighting. it is the sort of emperor has no close kind of phenomenon where it is important on days like this that we remind people we are not the crazy ones. they are the craven ones. >> i love that. and licks spittle is a word that doesn't get enough circulation. thank you for invoking it here at the top of the hour.

i want to show you can add that the biden campaign put out and just get your reaction. this is on january 6. >> on january 6, donald trump lit a fire in this country. >> 140 officers were injured. the siege lasted for seven hours. >> stalking the flames of division and hate. now, he is pouring gasoline, pledging to part of the extremist to try to overthrow our government and signing them to try again. there is nothing more sacred than our democracy, but donald trump ready to burn it all down. >> i'm joe biden and i approve this message. >> this was released today. trump is actually gone farther. he's called the warriors around the anniversary of d-day.

this seems to speak to that got rejection of some of the voters you talk to a lot. what do you think about it? >> i think this is good. you have to keep the salience of january 6 very high for voters because the fact is, people have short attention spans. i do the focus groups a couple times a week's. i talked to voters all the time and i've done focus groups shortly after january 6 happened and then on the anniversary every year now for several years and it's been stunning to watch people change how they talk about january 6 because of course what had happened, people were discussed and they were sad. republicans were so appalled that they had to say that it was actually mt for and black lives matter. they were not even willing at the time to say that these were actually trump supporters because it was such a bad thing to happen, but they have moved to a place where time has healed some of those ones for them and by the right-wing

infotainment media, republican politicians they've moved to this place now not just of acceptance for what happened on january 6, but of celebration that this was an act of patriotism, but that is for core maga voters, so for the swing voters who are still repelled by what happened that day , for the people who maybe are not big fans of joe biden but need to be reminded that donald trump is unfit and too dangerous to be allowed back in the white house, it's essential to remind them about january 6 because it's just one of those things where it matters when people keep the salience high. as the salience falls, people forget about it, so it's good to remind people. >> i think our best example of what sarah is talking about was the january 6th select committees public hearings were the summer before the midterms and we learn after an election what was on voters minds, but democracy was much higher than a lot of pundits expected it to be. one of the factors, along with dobbs, that helped plan the

audacious predictions of a massive red wave was just more like a drip drip. the facts of january 6 include trump's voracious appetite for the violence. let me play some of cassidy hutchinson's testimony about trump's enthusiasm for the removal of the [ inaudible ] which were there to make secret service aware of anyone carrying a weapon. >> in the tent i was part of a conversation. i was in the vicinity of a conversation where i overheard the president say something. i don't f-inning care that they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. take the mags away. let the people in. take the mags away. >> this was, to me, the smoking gun of trump's enthusiasm for his supporters to both be armed,

and that they proceed armed to the capital to do his bidding. >> exactly right, and in addition to that clip from cassidy and the hearings, we also developed this really powerful vignette of the january 5th, the evening before the attack on the capital. the president was in the oval office. he gathered a group of young staff and the door was open and he could hear the january 5th crowd, you know, the ali alexander mike flynn speeches and he said to the room, people are very angry. they are extremely upset about this election, you know, mindful of the energy and the crowd and the potential for it to turn violent, so there were repeated instances of his specific knowledge of danger and his desire to go. what struck me about these images from today as he is

doing today what he wanted to do that day. his intention was to go to the capital and buttonhole republican members of congress somehow that he thought would be subject to the political pressure he was exerting on the vice president and others, and some desperate attempt to prevent the certification and the transfer of power. it is shockingly ironic that 3.5 years later he is making that trip not on the day of the certification be getting a much more favorable audience from these republican members. that is precisely what he intended to do had he been successful in that crazy plan to travel to the capital on january 6. >> irony does not live under the mushroom cloud of trumpism, but there was an irony to mike johnson being the speaker who created donald trump on a day like today. >> right. having him be the one to welcome him as telling and this moment where we find ourselves but also somebody like nancy mays inside of that meeting room today, donald trump exclusively giving her a shout out after helping her win her primary. nancy mays was, but some of us

are talking about, going to be the future of the republican party in the days after the january 6 attack. she was voted in for the first time in november of 2020 and she then made the tv rounds saying that she and others could be the voice of the new republican party. we need to turn the page, move away from donald trump than i was out there in south carolina in 2022 that summer. donald trump was up on stage calling her a rhino, trying to get her eliminated from office. she narrowly won her election and told me at the time the department of justice is going to do their work and find if anybody did a crime related to january 6 they will bring the appropriate charges. department of justice did exactly that but nancy speaking a different tune and the message sent to donald trump from every other republican in that room is that you may have turned your back at me at one point across me at some point but ultimately you are safe in this republican party if you come back and you stand beside me. nancy mays is the representative for that if you take those words the first after january 6. she said she was hiding her kids that they

have attacked to where she finds herself now. >> there are a lot of accounts from contemporaneous social media post about the incoherence you highlighted in your nightly package sunday night. some of the non sequiturs, i think is the most generous way to describe them. this is from jake sherman on trump's meeting with the house republicans quote from trump to house republicans quote, nancy pelosi's daughter is a wacko, said trump. her daughter told me if things were different nancy and i would be perfect together. there is an age difference, though. he went on i don't know what this means but this is what he told a group of house republicans. he talked about silence of the lambs' famous villain, hannibal lector. there was a lot of -- i think his supporters call it riffing, but a lot of non-policy topics raised.

>> i've been covering trump rallies for a while and that's kind of a normal trump rally, if i may, but perhaps house republicans got to hear it up close on capitol hill for the first time. a little bit more intimate. >> up next, we will be joined by the biden campaign co-chair, mitchell andrew. much more ahead. don't go anywhere. w. much more ahead. don't go anywhere. start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. (aaron) i own a lot of businesses... so i wear a lot of hats. my restaurants, my tattoo shop... and i also have a non-profit. but no matter what business i'm in... my network and my tech need to keep up. thank you verizon business. (kevin) now our businesses get fast and reliable internet from the same network that powers our phones. (waitress) all with the security features we need.

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resulted in 60 people being dead in las vegas and what the court did the stay is really rolling back what otherwise is important progress to be made to prevent gun violence in america. >> that was vice president, lana harris reacting to the nation's highest court in the land today deciding to rollback a ban on bump stocks. president joe biden today urging congress to take action saying this, quote, americas i, as you

know, came out of republican politics and campaigns for the supreme court was an issue that animated republicans. the supreme court is now out of step with the majority of republican whip and on about half republican men on issues of abortion and gun safety. how do you make sure it is as motivating of an issue for the democratic coalition and the biden-harris coalition as it was for 40 years for republicans? >> first of all, thank you for having me. this decision is another kick in the gut. it is not a surprise, and should not be for anyone who has watched what the republican party has tried to do with seizing power in state legislatures, the congress and the supreme court. this is donald trump's supreme court. this is what a supreme court who wants to take america back again into the dark ages looks like and it should cause people in america to shutter when you take it not only for what it said today, but take it in context. the decision today to basically make peaceful streets in america by putting a machine gun in everybody's hands is hard to fathom. the number of americans who have been killed on american soil since 1980 is more than 1

million people. that's more than all of the americans killed in the wars that were fought in the 20th and 21st century. of course clarence thomas thinks the best way to deal with that is just give everybody machine gun. you sawtake me out to the ball game what the president and vice president said. but here is the most important message. this election is going to be a choice between a guy named joe biden who gets up every day fighting for the american people, who has tried to fund the police. trump is tried to defund the police and will appoint supreme court justices that will reflect the ideas of america and reflect the ideas of the constitution and the way that of the supreme court should. this court has demonstrated how they are so willing to eviscerate the decision for dobbs and not to this incredible decisions. if you want of thoughtful, reasonable court, the kind of court joe biden is

presided over for the years he's been the senate, vice president and president you have to pick joe biden but it is a sad decision that is tortured in its language and its reasoning from dust justice thomas. >> it's so interesting. the polls support everything you just said. 85% of americans support gun safety measures. higher than that, closer to 90 something on bump stocks. i think 83 is the number that supports background checks. the decision they have before them about this -- domestic abusers i mean, most women who are murdered or murdered by someone they know. the victims of the extreme right policies are -- everyone knows someone who does not have access to the healthcare they need, the women who are aligned with the campaign and have been on my show talking about their

experiences in texas after abortion bands are sort of living, walking, talking examples of how devastating republican policies are. do you think the race is close because people have not focused in on the people in their own communities who are suffering and hurting because of the extreme republican policies, or do you think it is where we are in the calendar that no one is thinking -- what is your theory of the state of the race? >> first of all, it is a close race and it's going to be a close race all the way through election day. you cannot have a more stark contrast between two visions of america. joe biden really, everybody who knows and likes them. people who work for him want to continue to work for him. he's demonstrated an ability to cross the aisle and get massive pieces of legislation done. he's been thoughtful, reasonable and respectful of people who don't think like he does. he told me you go everywhere and make sure everybody gets in

on this. i'm the president for all- american. donald trump on the other hand has told you many times, i'm in this for myself. i'm going to seek retribution on people who oppose me. he went to the hill the other day and it was disheartening and discuss and -- disgusting to watch him walk into capitol hill, place for us president, he sat and watched to get decimated by an insurrection he promoted and what did the maga republicans in congress do? did they do what they said? they embraced him and gave him the game ball from that congressional race. if that doesn't mean that donald trump now owns the republican party lock stock and barrel and now he has his court that represents them, people should know he will continue to do what he said, which is being worse than he was the first time he was president. it is a very stark choice. we have to continue to talk to people. it's going to be a close election. we're going to have to continue to tell them what the stakes are but evidently the supreme court and congress are going to help them figure out really quickly what it looks like when you take america back again. i

don't think women want to go back. i don't think minority communities want to go back. i don't think reasonable and thoughtful americans want to go back to the way it was a long time ago when we did not share democracy in the united states of america. democracy is on the line. freedom is on the line, our rates are on the line and of course, the ability to actually live in a reasonable, thoughtful places neighbors were different from ourselves, all on the line. when we come back, but the conservative majority on the supreme court has already ushered in, the all-out assault on reproductive rights on -- in red states across the country. one mom forced to flee her home and her home state for medical care. me state for medical care. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection,

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to my kidneys and brain but i still wasn't that enough for the exception for abortion care in texas. i was going to have to flee the state for my family has lived for eight generations, and i was terrified. the bounty laws in texas had us worrying about who could turn against us. was it safer to attempt 12 hours in a car through rural texas while i was violently ill? what if i got worse? exceptions to abortion bands are a fiction. they don't exist in texas and i am living proof of that. >> that was lauren miller testifying earlier today before a senate subcommittee about the horror that she and countless women are being forced to endure everyday after donald trump's hand-picked supreme court justices stripped away a constitutional right for the first time ever. in attendance today was caitlin cache, who was also forced to leave her home state of texas to get care after she found out that her 13 week ultrasound

baby was unlikely to survive until birther would suffocate soon after being born. her home state of texas has been the leader in an effort to try to block women from leaving their homes, from leaving the states to receive abortion care. the movement has been growing in antiabortion states all across this country, therefore the reality for women across this country. caitlin cache joins us now. caitlin, i have to thank you for telling your story and for talking about these things. so many women have been through this. so few women are able to talk about it in their life, let alone on tv, so, thank you. >> yes, thank you for having me here. it is a horrible thing to have to relive, but as i have been telling people during my visit, if it is something i have to relive to let women know what is really like in states with these bands i will keep doing it. >> so, tell us your story. >> at my 13 week ultrasound i found out that my second pregnancy -- that there was a

fetal abnormality. it was skeletal dysplasia so during that appointment i was told that my child's bones would most likely start breaking in utero due to a condition called brittle bones and then when my child was born, his rib cage would not be able to support normal lung function and so he would most likely suffocate or need extreme medical intervention and that that appointment, my doctor told me that i needed to start thinking about what type of end-of-life care i would want for my child, and it was a hard stop, and it never occurred to me that this is just 45 days after sb eight went into effect in texas and my doctor cannot even say the word, abortion. >> so you know from your doctor at 13 weeks that your baby that you want desperately, sounds like it was a boy? >> yeah, it was a boy. >> is going to suffer, so there is no gray area. he survives pregnancy, he will suffer under options in texas

are nothing, so then what happens? >> so, we talked in circles and we kept saying, what can we do to help our baby? what can we do as this babies parents to help the suffering and, and we just didn't get anywhere and so finally the doctor looked at me and said well, you should probably get a second opinion, but outside of texas and it was very clear what he was saying, which was, we needed to leave the state so we walked out into the lobby and at that moment, they handed me a big stack of papers and it was my medical records and they were saying we can't transfer them anywhere. we can't tell you what ago. good luck, so on the same day that i was told that my son would not survive, that this pregnancy that from the moment that test turned positive, i had dreamed of his life, the same day i learned that, i was also told to go figure out where to get the health care that i needed, and i went home

and immediately fell to my bathroom floor sobbing because of this loss and i had to pick up the phone and start calling clinics and trying to figure out , how do i get to my records? i don't have a scanner at home, like help what do i do? it was one of the most traumatic days of my life. >> what happened next? >> so, we finally found the clinic, actually, found two clinics, so there was some competing timelines and their was a lot of -- some states have weight restrictions, so i had to sign a lot of paperwork showing that i had read all of the concerns and that i knew how long can we had to book travel based on those wait times and so i was finally able to find one clinic that could get me in, and we had to figure

out what to do with my son and who was going to watch my dogs, what was i going to tell my employer? this is 45 days after sb eight. i do not want to put anyone else at risk for being caught trying to get me the care that they needed and so, we just left, you know. my husband and i just left. we got on the plane and we went out of state and then i had to go to a clinic where they allow protesters, within a certain amount, and i walked past signs that told me i was a murderer and as i went in to get basic healthcare to end my child's suffering. >> and, this was not the last brush with tragedy and the inability in the year 2023, right? to care for yourself and your unborn child. tell us what happened next for you.

>> so, after we returned, i kind of fell into a deep state of depression because i was still having this really hard time processing the loss of my child and this whole thing being politicized, and just the conversations and things that were happening, but i was able to seek mental health with my own resources and i was able to get pregnant a few months later. i unfortunately miscarried that pregnancy. when i went to my doctor, i found out that my body was not processing that mitch -- miscarriage on its own and that i would need mifepristone. i left my doctor's office, went to the pharmacy and the pharmacist told me they would need more indication from my doctor on why i needed this prescription and i remember just turning around and walking out, because i was actively miscarrying. i was actively bleeding and i just said yeah, i'm not doing this again. i was able to find a pharmacy that filled it. then i got pregnant again and i miscarried again and maybe after that, which owed -- we chose ivf to try to get a

better understanding of what was happening and i was fortunate that my ivf worked and i was able to get pregnant and then 10 months later, i give birth to my daughter and i remember holding her on my chest thinking, it's over. like you're here. i can meet you and my doctor told me that there was a problem. my placenta was not delivering and i needed to go to the o.r. to have a d&c to remove the remaining tissue and then we waited and we waited and we waited. i started throwing up. i started shaking violently. they finally took me back to the o.r. there was intense confusion. it was just chaotic, not what you expect from this they were going to take you back here for a very standard procedure. there were nurses running around and as i'm laying there waiting for a procedure to start, i felt something on my arm dripping and i grabbed a nurse and looked down and i was actually bleeding from my i.v.

and going into hemorrhagic shock and i lost consciousness after that. i woke up sometime later and was told that i had lost half of my blood volume and that i should be grateful that i didn't lose my uterus and after that i was transferred to the icu, and the first night of my daughter's life, i didn't get to spend it with her. i spent it in an icu three floors away because they, for some reason, could not give me standard medical care for a postpartum hemorrhage. >> you are so lucky to be alive right now, you know that? you are not alone in losing a baby you desperately wanted and wanting to end your sons suffering. you are not alone in needing healthcare after you delivered your daughter, but you were in a very very small, small club of telling your story publicly of what so many women have endured privately and i believe i've said this to amanda. i believe you and she and the others who are talking about your most painful, and in your

case, harrowing health moments, and amanda's case, the very same, you are helping to change the country and change the trajectory of this moment in our history and saving other women hopefully from the same fate. i'm so happy for you and your daughter and your family and we are so grateful to you for telling your story. thank you. >> yeah, thank you for having me act and i really hope what women take from this story is you don't know the reproductive care you're going to need until you need it and it is all under attack. emergency care, ivf, miscarriage management. everything is under attack right now and the only person on the ballot this november that has pledged to get us those rights back as joe biden.

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the idea that there is an abstract rule of law or an abstract democracy that exists ambient in the atmosphere and someday in the future we might lose it -- that is not how this goes. the rule of law is mortal, right? it can be killed.

it is wounded when the people involved in the judicial system and the adjudication of alleged crimes are being threatened and harassed and intimidated and pressured out of their jobs for doing that work. >> the rule of law is mortal. what's more, it is under dire threat. that was my colleague, rachel maddow building up to an interview with fani willis. donald trump has spent the better part of the last eight years doing everything in his power to strip from the american people their confidence in all of our institutions. his saying elections are rigged, verdicts are read, everything is rigged. in the long-term, these attacks have an overwhelmingly corrosive and dangerous effect on the very foundations and pillars of our democracy. the rule of law is under attack. in rachel's words, it needs to be protected, so it was

heartening, seemed like maybe he was listening when attorney general merrick garland submitted to the washington post today, an op-ed that served as something of a public warning. quick, unfounded attacks on the justice department must end. after taking through a series of recent conspiracy theories, garland insists such acts could cause real harm to the department of justice and the men and women who helped carry its mission. it was reminiscent of what he told the republican-led house judiciary committee last week. >> certain members of this committee and the oversight committee are seeking contempt as a means of obtaining for no legitimate purses, sensitive law enforcement information that could harm the integrity of future investigations. i will not be intimidated on the justice department will not be intimidated. >> these threats will not go away because of what he said or wrote. they will not go away in short order. in fact, if today's present anything, it is that even when the rule of law works out in a way that damages the current president, trumps political adversary and could actually damage trump politically,

president biden's own son was convicted in a court of law, many elements of the far right still insist there is some conspiracy at play, that it's all a sham. it's still rigged. again, the rule of law is mortal and now, it is up to all of us to protect it with our friend and colleague, the host of the rachel maddow show, rachel maddow. she is also the host of the podcast, ultra. the second season premiere just yesterday. the first episode is available. it is such a heavy news cycle. your thoughts. >> well, i think that if the biden administration has weaponized legal system of this country to only ever go after republicans and conservatives and never go after democrats i think today proves that they are doing a terrible job of that. boy, are they really falling down on the job, allowing the president's son not only to be prosecuted, but convicted and

then somehow manipulating president biden into saying, i respect the rule of law. no, i'm not pardoning my son. he may appeal but we support him and respect the jury's verdict. that is really not what you would expect. we also have bob menendez on trial, the democratic senator. we have a democratic congressman who is criminally indicted and going on trial. the important thing about this is that it gives life to -- why to trumps god claim that there's something about the justice system that is skewed to help democrats.

i think we know in our heads that that has not been a good faith critique but a day like today should disprove it, right? if they were arguing on a rational basis and that was based on facts. it's not based on facts. is just designed as an attack against the american system of government because they are running against the american system of government and it is really not about the facts of any individual case. >> i mean, i think my habit that i am determined to break in this election cycle is to stop looking for the circuit breaker or the thing that breaks the fever. i immediately went over to conservative media to see did we get them, do they believe now that the rule of law is a real thing and it didn't and i was disappointed again, when i want to stop asking the wrong questions and i feel like so much of what we have to get right this time because way too much is on the line is that the question is not, did someone on the right family become persuaded that the rule of law is a real thing and not only do we have to protect it but that it treats everyone fairly because look, joe biden stood by as his son was convicted by a jury of his peers and said

no, we will pardon him. the question is, is it all a projection and i wonder what you think, what you take from this that there is no equivalence, no need to seek out symmetry, because the right is not asking the same questions, they are not having the same conversation. >> there is a reason, you know, that donald trump and supporters of trump have been immune to fact checking over the past five to nine years. it is because they do not care about being wrong. this is not a fact-based appeal that they are making to people. they're trying to make you feel like america is in an emergency, that america is under existential attack from evil people who must be destroyed by any means necessary. there is an enemy within and we

need -- we are in such dire straits as a country that we need to get rid of our system of government, get rid of all this process, all these different people having a say, get rid of all the safeguards and checks and balances and instead just have someone is going to slay the demon, just have somebody who's going to vanquish our enemies once and for all, and if you're going to make that kind of case, you are not making it based on the observable facts in the world where you are horrified if you are found to be wrong be corrected or new facts arrive that disprove what you have previously been saying so you course correct. it's not about the fact of what they are asserting. it is about the fight. they want the fight. and so, it puts those of us who are still living in a reason- based world at a disadvantage because you can't bring reason to a fight with somebody who is not trying to rationally persuade you, they're just trying to upset you, but i still think that is what we have to do, right? i mean, i don't think we should expect the trumpian right and

the trumpian republican party to be persuaded by new facts, but we should continue to report and describe and contextualize responsibly, the actual facts of the world in the hopes that the crazy making conspiratorial factory stuff they are selling well ultimately have fewer buyers in the larger public, right? you can't move mike johnson. you can't move kash patel. you can't move lara trump, or whatever her name is, you can't move these people with rational argument, let alone trump himself, but maybe someone that does not pay that much attention to politics will also hear the facts from you and from responsible news organizations and they will recognize that what they are trying to sell is a bunch of bunk and maybe they won't vote for it. that is -- it is unromantic, but that is the task, like to stay to the truth, keep confronting them and contradicting them when they are wrong and pointing out true things and believe the best of

our fellow citizens. >> this has been prime time weekend. i am nicolle wallace. please tune in to all of our prime time shows weekdays on msnbc. es you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪

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convicted felon's return to capitol hill was another frightening preview of what washington will being like if he wins in november. senator booker will join us with his reaction and he is coming up first. we got exclusive