thank you for watching, we can all take a collective deep breath, these are stressful times, and on that note, i wish you a very good, and a very safe night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for paying up late with us, i will see you tomorrow.

after a day in which president biden some more members of his own pretty calling him to drop out of the race, this president this year's nato conference with a high- stakes press conference to say that it was a major moment for president biden and his party is an understatement. biden's question-and-answer session was watched by america's allies and adversaries, politicians of both major parties, as well as an audience, here in the u.s. and around the globe. >> i'm not handing in my european allies say, joe, don't run. what i hear them say is, you have got to win. you can't let this guy come forward. it would be a disaster. would be a disaster. i mean, i think he said at one of his rallies, don't hold me to this, recently where, nato,

i just learned about nato, something to that effect. foreign-policy has never been his strong point, and he seems to have an affinity to people who are authoritarian. that worries-- as i do tell you at home, that worries europe. that worries poland, and nobody, including the people of poland, think that it it will stop in ukraine and that will be the end of it. so, what i can say is, i think i am the best qualified person to do the job. >> almost important is the content of the president's remarks tonight, was the president's delivery, his energy, his enthusiasm, his command of details and policy. >> the fact is that, the consideration is that i think i am the most qualified person to run for president, i beat him once, and i will be him again. secondly, the idea-- i served in the senate a long time. the idea that senators and

congressmen running for office worry about the ticket is not unusual. and i might add, there are at least five presidents running or incumbent president, who had lower numbers than i have now. later in the campaign. so, there's a long way to go in this campaign. and so, i-- i am just going to keep moving. keep moving and because-- look, i got more work to do, i've got more work to finish. there's so much-- we have made so much progress. >> no, the focus of this we's nato summit was supposed to be support for ukraine and russia's war for aggression. and in a lot of ways it was, just indirectly. because though the conversations among world leaders this weekend weapons to ukraine will decide ukraine's fate in the coming months, the long-term future of ukraine and maybe the fate of the global order as we know it could come

down to domestic american politics. he was ukrainian president, volodymyr zelenskyy, himself, saying just that earlier this week. >> ladies and gentlemen, let me- - and i want to be-- candid and frank. now, everyone is waiting for november. americans are waiting for november in europe, in the middle east, the pacific, the whole world is working to november and truly speaking, putin awaits november too. >> putin awaits november. on this count emma putin may be right. the two presumptive residential nominees have such disparate worldviews that the 2024 election in november could be the deciding factor in whether the western world stands up for democracy or let it fall. those are the stakes.

that is something acknowledged, not just by president, volodymyr zelenskyy, but i the nato summit itself. while the leaders of almost all of nato's 32 member nations are aligned with president biden and their support for ukraine, one of them notably is not. hungry's autocratic prime minister, viktor or van. while president biden spends today meeting the nato summit, president or van spent it meeting president trump is mar- a-lago resort. just a week after per minister, orban, became the first western leader to travel to moscow and visit with russian president, volodymyr zelenskyy, in more than two years. that meeting was so out of bounds, compared to where the rest of europe stands on the issue, that leaders of both the eu and nato itself released statements, making clear that orban and neither way representatives organizations with his visit. so, european union and nato distance themselves and donald

trump embraces him. this is maybe not all of that surprising. victor orban, vladimir putin and donald trump have a lot in common. in addition to what amounts to sort of a strongman fan boy club that they are all members of, they are all intent on upending the democratic hegemony, which is basically defined the world order for the past five years. and tonight, donald trump and victor or van had a powwow, allegedly determining what they would do if donald trump regains power. so yes, vladimir putin is waiting for november, so as volodymyr zelenskyy. so is biden, and so is the world. >> i will not bow down to putin. i will not walk away from ukraine. i will keep nato strong. that is exactly what we did and exactly what we will continue

to do. now the future of american policy is up to the american people. this is much more a political question. it is more than that. is a national security issue. don't reduce this to the usual testament of people talking about, issues of people being a political campaign, it is far too important. it is about the world we live in for decades to come. joining me now are the national security advisor, cohost of pot save america and also god save the world. gentlemen, through your three great people i want to hear from all of you about your impressions on what just unfolded on screens across the country and across the globe and let me ask you how did president biden do? >> what has been going on in

nato the last few days. so, president biden was very cogent and focused on delivering a message about the centrality of nato, the commitment to ukraine he is obviously speaking about issues related to china, foreign policies have been on the agenda but i also know that the last couple of days, the topic of conversation in the holidays and hotel bars from people and governments has been about the political crisis here in the democratic party and the question of what will happen in the election and what will happen with president biden. at the same time he is dealing with that political backdrop and in some ways, nato, alex is like the democratic caucus meeting, everyone is really nervous, they are probably saying some things in private

that they are not sing in public and i think coming out of that, you know, you still feel like we are in someplace to some extent. some people with his command of issues, but also, you know, reaffirming some of the concerns about how vigorously you can prosecute the case against donald trump, so we exit this space. >> i wonder how you look at what unfolded. you know? we played that clip of the president thing i have not had any of the european allies, to me and say, joe, don't run, what i hear them as you have got to win those two things are inextricably connected right? what is your assessment of how much the fears related by nato allies were related to performance tonight? >> well i think they are just worried about it or not so i don't know if they were fully

allayed by the performance, i watched that performance, there's no doubt in my mind that joe biden is a foreign policy expert. this guy spent almost what? 12 years now, getting the pvp every day, his nose is stuffed, he also has a good story to tell when it comes to nato. 2019, the french president, emmanuel macron, said nato is branded, and biden has invigorated it. so, on the policy, joe biden is absolutely in the right place and he knows his stuff. the concern for people like me and people winning this election is, does he have the stamina to prosecute the campaign against donald trump and does he have the communication skills and ability to exploit himself better than he did at the debate? obviously is way better than the debate, but i don't know if it was great in terms of arguing against donald trump.

>> mccann, what did you think? you just did some deep reporting about the atlantic about western europe's deep trepidation about november and the fact that they think a trump victory is a foregone conclusion, how did you look at the press conference tonight in the performance? >> yeah, i found myself thinking about the conversations i had with european officials and germany and estonia and brussels nato headquarters this past spring. the reoccurring pattern was in all of these conversations were terrified about donald trump being reelected. we think it is more likely than not and what it would mean for the world, for the destabilization of europe, the war in ukraine would be catastrophic. and then when we talked about joe biden, when i asked him about biden, they would kind of start by saying, you know, experience, on policy, on his breadth and depth of knowledge, we admire him. and he is an atlanta cyst, he believes in nato, he believes in alliance says and we love

all of that, but then they would kind of often ask now, can i talk anonymously and going background. they would say, why is he running? like, is he really the best the democrats can put forward? to be trump? and i think that news conference to be showcased the reasons for that ambivalence. biden showed an ability to speak in great depth about these issues. certainly more so than donald trump could. at the same time, his performance was shaky. he cuts himself off, he interrupts himself, he loses his train of thought. he missed speaks, and my guess, i have not been able to make contact with those people in 20 minutes since the news conference ended, but my guess is a lot of the officials i spoke to in europe looked at that news conference and had their impressions of biden confirmed. >> been, when you-- i take

everything the case is saying in terms of characterizing the president's posture in this news conference, but i also saw him a bit more defiant and combative than-- certainly in the debate where you would expect them to be more combative. a couple of times he leaned in and said, sort of challenging the press and all of the tractors to come and find the ways in which he has not done a good job, show the receipts for a president that is somehow weekend, at least legislatively or for a conference. you think that was in anyway effective? it feels like we are kind of in this twilight zone, where, you know, i am not sure that much changed one way or another, which to me suggests that biden stays in the race. i am unclear what else is going to happen here, given the democratic parties reluctance to keep this fight going on much longer. >> yeah, well, i think-- it was a mixed bag, in terms of the defiance you talked about, alex.

i talked about some and who worked on campaigns and addition to foreign policy. i thought he was effective, you know, when the defiance was directed at donald trump, or directed at, you know, corporations not paying their fair share. but frankly, when the defiance is directed at the media or -- it is very much about him and his accomplishments or it is about just his own record, that is not the questions people are asking. you know? i think everybody was asking sincere questions about whether joe biden is right person to take this, including european officials and other allied officials i hear from him as well too. the questions they are asking is about whether he can win this election, whether he has the stamina and skill set required right now to be donald trump and whether he can serve out another four years and what he can do in the near future, and not just what he has done in the past, defending what

happened at the nato summit. i don't think anybody doubts that that was a productive nato summit, but that is not what we are dated debating here. so that is where this is a disconnect between the psychology that you get from president biden sometimes and going after detractors and arguing about the record three and half years, nobody is actually questioning him. the question is about what is the best for you to go forward here and i think what nato reinforces the states involved in that decision are not just the future of american democracy , the people's future, but literally the future of ukraine, the future of security, the future of the world order, all of this rides on this question of whether or not joe biden can get this done and that is why it is worth having a conversation about it even if it has kept us in a purgatory going on longer than people would like. >> yeah. it is insane to say that the fate of the western world order rests on what happens in an

american presidential election, but really it feels like those are the stakes, that is where we are at. this conversation is very much not over. been roads please stay with me i have a lot more to ask about later this hour, but coming up the-- the news that-- it is a newsnight, democratic lawmakers are reacting to president biden's press conference and remaining at the top of the party's ticket. one of them has a lot to say, he has come out very publicly in the hours since or the minute since the president finished his press conference, congressman, jim pines, and the house intelligence committee joins me to give me is very-- shall we say interesting and controversial take on the president and his candidacy and his performance. he is going to join me right after the break. ter the break.

liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with all the money i saved i thought i'd buy stilts. being so tall definitely has its advantages. oh whoa.

here you go, kiddo. thanks. hi honey ready to go? yup. there it is, there it is... ahhh...here we go. i guess it also has some disadvantages. yes it does. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty, liberty.♪ most people call leaffilter when their gutters are clogged and they notice one of the many issues that can bring. sometimes it's the smell of mildew when water has seeped into the interior walls. or maybe they've spotted mold in the attic. but most often it's the more obvious signs of damage like rotten soffit, fascia, or water pooling near their foundation. you can get ahead of costly damage by protecting your home's gutters today. we're in your neighborhood and ready to help. schedule your free gutter inspection today,

call 833 leaffilter, or visit leaffilter.com switch to shopify so you can build it better, scale it faster and sell more. much more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify.

when we're young, we're told anything is possible... ...but only a few of us go out and prove it. witness the greatness of anna hall on a connection worthy of gold: xfinity mobile. only xfinity gives you the most powerful mobile wifi network, with speeds up to a gig in millions of locations. and right now, get up to $800 off the new galaxy z flip6 and z fold6 when you trade in your current phone. get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity. the idea i have been a

senator a long time. the idea that senators and congressmen running for office worry about the ticket is not unusual, and i might add, there are at least five presidents running, or incumbent president, with lower numbers than i have now. later in the campaign. so it's a long way to go in this campaign, and so, i-- i'm just going to keep moving, keep moving it because look, i have got more work to do, more work to finish, there's so much, we made so much progress. >> before president biden began his new address tonight, 40 democrats of the house and senate had already asked for him to drop out of the race, before he asked his final news conference that number had risen to 16. among the democrats joining those calls tonight's congressman, jim hines, top democrat on the house intelligence committee, who was out with a new statement.

it reads, it has been the owner of my career to work with president biden on the achievements that secured his remarkable legacy in american history. it is in consideration of that legacy that i hope president biden will step away from the presidential campaign. the 2024 election will define the future of american democracy and we must put forth the strongest candidate possible to confront the threat posed by trump's promised mike authoritarianism. i no longer believe that is joe biden. joining me now is congressman, jim hines, of connecticut. congressman, we will get right to it. what did you see tonight and in recent days that would lead you to believe that joe biden should step aside? >> well, it is really just not about tonight. one of the really kind of sick aspects of this moment is that we are watching every speech, every rally, every debate and saying how did he do today? and that is just not the way to

think about the presidency of the united states, and look, this is a really hard moment for democrats and it is a hard moment for democrats, because, loyalty and love and emotion are really important in politics, and by the way, there's probably no one for them that is more important than the storytelling irish men, joe biden, and they are really important politics. it is why union halls erupted in ecstasy, it is why rallies are-- it is why people cry when they remember barack obama and that is good, it is good. the problem is, it can be taken to an extreme. it is loyalty and loyalty alone, inking loyalty that leads 70 million americans to continue to back an adjudicated felon, rapist, sexual assault

or that has promised an authoritarian regime, and at the end of the day, those states that are so important to politics must make way, as hard as it is, to a very simple question, which is, can we win this race and save our democracy? and it is so unsexy and so unromantic to say, what about the polls? what about the report? it completely dashes the poetry of campaigning, but the hard reality is-- and i am far from the only democrat who believes this, that the numbers, the trajectory, what americans feel in their bones right now, suggest, not only that joe biden would lose this race, but that he, or we, would lose the senate and the house. and the stakes are so high that we need to set aside that loyalty and poetry and that romance and we all go down together in favor of some really hard-nosed analysis about whether this is the way forward. and, you know, i've been with the president on a number of

occasions that i have looked at those numbers. no president has ever been reelected with the disapproval ratings that our current president as we do have. so, i will not stand silent as we see a trajectory to an electoral loss that leads to the presidency of donald trump and all that he has promised. >> why did you wait until the speech was over? you said it didn't have to do with his remarks tonight. was it nato? did you wants to wait until the world stage had been cleared? can you talk a little bit more about the timing and whether you expect other democrats will connect with similar statements? >> you know, really-- maybe it is a little old-fashioned, but there used to be a statement that partisan politics should stop at the water's edge. i love joe biden, i have infinite respect for him, and by the way, foreign-policy is his strength, as he demonstrated tonight. but no, i very deliberately waited until after the nato conference to inject, as i knew it would, a political element

into the discussion here. >> you feel like the white house and specifically biden is even open to hearing statements like yours? given his posture tonight? he was fairly combative at the suggestion that he was no longer up to it, that he didn't have the stamina, but he wasn't going to win is he in a position to even contemplate that, do you think? >> i have done a lot of political campaigns, alex and the one attribute of almost every single losing campaign and i have seen hundreds of them is that, right up until the moment that the numbers are in and you have lost, you believe you will win. therefore, again as i said before, you have to set aside the loyalty, the hope that maybe there's a job two years down the road, the emotion, the luck. because there is so much love for joe biden, in favor of a

coldhearted appraisal of the facts. you just can't get away from that and i know that i am unpopular and lots of corners, because i am asking us to step away from the love and loyalty and just say that the numbers suggest that we are going to lose, and look, i respect people who have an opinion different than mine, but the underlying thesis here is that we will turn this around and i have heard for months and months and months is that the problem is we haven't communicated. the remarkable legislative achievements, the biggest investment in our infrastructure ever. the fact that, for medicare recipients, out-of-pocket costs are capped at $2000, the fact that insulin is now capped at $35 a month. i have heard over and over again that we are not communicating well. and i would just ask that my fellow biden supporters whether you believe, whether you have evidence in the next five months , that story will be so

exquisitely told by the president that we will turn around the polling, that we will turn what is right now a losing hand into a winning hand and it pains me to say that, because joe biden is top 10 presidential material and it is absolutely a legacy, but if you don't look at this in a cold, hard way you will be complicit in donald trump's second president. and the benches deep among democrats, it really is. i don't know who the next candidate should be, not going to, but i could name a dozen democrats who i believe would not only galvanize african- americans, women, useful, etc., but why am very confident could convey the message of the remarkable achievements that the biden administration did better than he is going to be able to do. >> so i am hearing from you

that the time for 2nd chances, if you will, is over. the biden campaign, clearly they had an aggressive schedule today. they took a rare press conference, they have a sitdown interview with nbc's lester holt on monday, but what i am hearing from you is that skeptics, including many in his own party, have seen enough and heard enough and that the time has come to hear from his party resoundingly that he should no longer be at the top of the ticket there has been so much handwringing, both out side of capitol hill and inside capitol hill about how democrats handle this. easier expectation that they are more like you to follow, more statements like this to follow in the next 72 hours. >> i don't know i really don't know. this is not part of any coordinated effort. i don't know what my colleagues

will do and i respect each and every one of them. i just -- you asked about second chances, this is not an athletic endeavor, where you get a mulligan right? democrats are in this moment where we are so pleased and perhaps not surprised, the president today recently good job on a policy, which you know so well, but this is what we are focused on, forgetting the fact that the presidency, an office i have never occupied and probably never will, is so horrendously ruling. i mean, forget about a debate with donald trump, the presidency is 24/7. you are awoken at three in the morning of the russians are fueling missiles. and by the way, the iranians are doing something with hezbollah and your political opponent has just accused you of being a traitor. this is a degree of stress that is unknowable to anybody but the president of the united states, and, you know, as much

as i love and respect the man, this is not about whether he can give him a press conference right? it is about whether you believe the trajectory, both for the country and three years from now, when the russians are fueling missiles and iran is doing something and political opponents are calling him a traitor, is he able to be up three days straight and to make all of the correct decisions right? this is a job, we will watch olympians in paris. this is a job that, like them, requires as much perfection as profits will allow a human being. and people need to ask themselves whether that is a trajectory that they are witnessing right now. and they need to be honest about it, they need to set aside the love and the loyalty and the be honest, because when you answer that question you are not talking about you. you are not talking about the president, you are talking about the united states of america and its future. >> congressman, jim himes,

thank you for your time, a big newsnight all-around. appreciated it >> thank you. coming up, while president biden was in washington, tried to convince allies and members of his own party that he can still do the job of protecting western democracy, while that was happening, the republican presidential candidate was hosting the authoritarian leader of hungary at his house. again. we will have more on that, next. that, next. i still love to surf, snowboard, and, of course, skate.

so, i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol's extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust.

hey folks, chris counahan here with leaffilter, america's largest gutter and gutter protection company. leaffilter has over 150 locations and has been installed on over a million homes. we've been protecting homes now for over 20 years. our patented technology offers total protection for your home and comes with a lifetime transferable warranty. the process is simple. give us a call to schedule your free gutter inspection. if you decide to move forward with the project, you put nothing down at all. 833 leaffilter or visit leaffilter.com today.

there is nobody that is better, smarter or a better leader than victor orban, he is fantastic. he does a great job. he is a noncontroversial figure, because he says that is the way it is going to be and that is the end of it. right? he is the boss. >> four months ago that is how donald trump introduced a crowd of supporters gathered at mar-a- lago to his guest of honor. the authoritarian leader of hungary, victor orban. now, tonight the two men met again at mar-a-lago just after orban met with another friend of his, russian president, vladimir putin, and posted on social media this evening, he said with his meeting to trump negotiations with president trump about peace, good news of the day, he will solve it. back with me now are ben rhodes, tommy, and mckay. tommy, good news, good news

victor orban and donald trump have worked out world peace. your thoughts? >> that is great news, you really wonder about someone who chooses to spend their time with someone, like victor orban. i can't imagine he is a good paying . but donald trump finds himself with the most authoritarian leaders he can around the world. he talks about how much he envies them and their ability to crush dissent and make decisions and subvert democracy so wonderful. grab the glad they figured it all out. >> then, we are studying the contrast, there is biden with nato, volodymyr zelenskyy, and literally a split screen moment for the global community with orban and trump meeting at mar- a-lago, fresh off of trump's meeting with putin. nbc reports that a source familiar with the trump-orban meeting that anytime orban needed a back channel to putin's nonsensical comedy think it is nonsensical?

>> i don't think it is nonsensical at all, alex. first of all, it is not a straightforward right? because it is not just orban you went to see putin recently, putin is seeing xi jinping, kim jong-un, i think he has been trying to demonstrate, hey, look, i have got a team as well, and we want to totally overturn the order that is represented by nato itself. these are the six that are happening, and orban is something of a model for trump. when he was 2025 and transitioning democracy into an authoritarian, single party system. now, the reason i don't think it is fanciful is, first of all, he was just in moscow, he was just seeing putin, right? just days ago. and know what is he telling us? good news, there is a peace plan. i mean, orban is telling us that social media post, i talked to trump what i talked to putin about, so he may not

be some sort of formal, on the payroll operative going back and forth with diplomacy, but i would be shocked if orban wasn't sharing some kind of message from putin or some kind of indication of his conversation with putin. you really think that victor orban that with vladimir putin for hours in moscow and then sat with donald trump in mar-a- lago i didn't mention anything that he talked to putin about, didn't pass anything on that came out of that meeting. again, his instagram post alone suggested he talked about ukraine and a peace plan. so, to me it highlights the stakes here between a block of countries and a block of strawmen, really, that trump must be a part of, versus whether or not nato can hold together the support of the united states. >> mckay, it is a remarkably unnerving omen for americans for the global community. i want to, you know, get your thoughts on the segment we had going into this. we have congressman, jim himes on the house intelligence committee statement, saying he believes president biden should remove himself from the top of the democratic ticket. first of all, you know, from

someone, like jim himes, who is very steeped in international affairs, has intelligence obviously, this seems like a meaningful decision. and i wonder the degree to which it has an effect on the global community that is watching everything unfold here in america. i know that, from your reporting, they are following on an almost granular level what is going on in america right now. >> yeah. that was something that really struck me in my reporting in europe. just how closely european officials, especially people in nato, are following everything that is happening in this election and, you know, they know the names of members of congress, they have met-- in many cases-- with them or with members of their staff, so, i don't think it goes unnoticed, when a senior democrat, with the depth of experience that he has, with intelligence, national security, foreign affairs, comes out against biden. i think the question is going

to be in the coming 24, 48 hours, you have asked him this question, are we going to see some kind of break right? there has been some reporting to that effect that we might hear from many more democrats on capitol hill in the coming days. i think if that happens, you might be in a situation where you might start to see some of president biden's friends and allies in european countries who are admirers of his and his administration to my knowledge that hasn't been said yet. some kind of anonymous anxiety reporting. will those people go on the record, will they start leading on president biden to drop out, given the stakes for the global community? that is what i will be keeping an eye on in the coming days. >> yeah. then, you know, the congressman said his statement tonight

didn't have much of anything to do with the conference. on some level someone would understand why he would want to do this, but on the other hand, the biden campaign and democratic onlookers said this press conference was a chance for biden to sort of reckon resurrect his candidacy and it wasn't a bad night for him, do you worry that the sort of pendulum keeps sort of incrementally swinging back and forth for way too long and becomes actually damaging for the ticket on hold, whoever is at the top of it, unless someone steps in and do you think anybody is willing to step in and by that you think barack obama is willing to step in here and get his hands dirty? >> well, look, first of all, i-- sure, you don't want this going on too long, but i would rather take a couple of weeks, alex and figure out whether we have the press best person to run the campaign against donald trump. i don't know that-- this is

pretty priced and that the debate was bad and the democrats are having a debate about this internally, so, i don't actually know that it matters that much, that there's a couple more days or a week it was a hard deadline with the nominating process. what you see with jim hines though, you see that statement was clearly written before the press conference tonight. i thought one of the most powerful things he said is part of the challenge is we don't want him to feel like everything joe biden is out on camera is it is some kind of riveting test. i mean, the very fact is that the dynamic is kind of a problem . you got through one of these things slightly better than the abc interviews, the pendulum inches in one direction. the question is, does the democratic party as a collective that is most represented by elected officials in congress, believe that they want to head into the election with joe biden as a

standardbearer for the sake of winning the private presidency and the sake of not harming and hopefully helping the democrats and i think that it does feel to me like there's obviously a lot of conversations happening behind closed doors. this will come to the forefront in the next several days. >> tom are you that optimistic? >> i mean, i think it really depends on what happens in congress. hearing from someone a serious and thoughtful as jim himes is very important, he said this is about patriotism in your country, putting this above loyalty was a very important message, because, if joe biden runs in the polls that we are looking at now are accurate, and we lose and donald trump is inaugurated as president, joe biden is a citizen like the rest of us. we all own this equally and we are all enormously worried about what a second trump presidency would mean for this country, for nato for taiwan.

the whole world is watching this election, the stakes are that high. i'm glad we are having this conversation now before the convention. i hope joe biden is getting good information and he is not, sort of, saying got bad pools for him aren't good for him and good polls are. that is a little bit worrisome, but it does feel like the trajectory at the moment is needing more and more members of congress to say what they think, say publicly that he is not the best candidate to win this race. >> you know, mckay, you have got such deep reporting inside of the republican party and, in particular, with republicans who have bucked party orthodoxy. that romney and your book about mitt romney and i wonder if you see any common dna between the english of someone, like that, and what is happening inside the democratic party right now. >> yeah. the thing that i always come away from in my conversations with mitt romney and a handful of republicans like him it is

really hard to do this, it is really hard to do what jim did, to speak about the president leading the party. everything about the partisan ecosystem that these politicians live in incentivizes against that right? your social life, your friends, your staff, your donors, the media you consume. everybody who is on your team wants you to just be a good soldier. you are expected to do what is best for the leader of your party. so, it is no small thing that we have now had-- what is it, 16 congressional democrats come out and come out for president biden to step aside. i'm sure there are people in biden's inner circle that believe that comes from, you

know, resentment or that they are haters or whatever, but i don't think that is true in most of these cases. i think these democrats are doing something hard. they are defying the partisan expectations that have been set for them, they are doing something that could very likely hurt them politically and they are taking a risk and i think that we should understand the statements that they are making and the thinks they are saying in that context. there is simply no good political incentive for them to go out on a limb and call for the sitting president in their own party to step aside. they are doing it, because they generally believe that he is not going to win this election and that the stakes are too high to not say that out loud. >> yeah. been, to that i think we can never take our eyes off of the ball in terms of the stakes right? we are talking about this in the context of nato, which you guys have discussed on your podcast, trying to retroactively-- or preemptively

trump proof the alliance, and also sort of talk about the alliance in a way that trump can understand if he is even listening, likening it to a club where you pay membership dues. do you claimant membership dues? i am not sure. for perspective here, the alternative is so catastrophically bad. i think we shouldn't lose the sense of what was unfolding down at mar-a-lago today, as we talk about the future of the democratic party. >> yeah. you can't trump proof this scenario, alex. first of all, europe cannot make all the kind of defense support that europe provides for ukraine. europe, even collectively its military strength is nowhere near the conversation with united states and so, what that means is that ukraine could be cut off and ukraine could be subject to russian domination in russia could push further into trying to destabilize

other parts of europe, but beyond that, alex, the momentum of global politics, we have seen this recently in the french election, it is teetering between a full swing of the pendulum in the direction of the trump's and the modi's and the benjamin netanyahu's, and the orban's we could list a bunch of strawmen, or can the pendulum kind of edge back in the direction of people who just want to at least protect the democracies that we have? and that is what is at stake here, because of trump wins the message that that pendulum will swing hard in the other direction, and this will be hard to determine nationalist, donald trump, vladimir putin, and xi jinping him and that will be bad for your rights, that will be bad in terms of the corruption of those people. these are really kind of existential stakes for the kind of world that we want to live in and that is why it is important, we can't just say everybody fall in line, keep your concerns to yourself.

i think everybody puts their cards on the table, particularly members of congress here, specifically because the stakes can allow us to get this wrong. >> ben rhodes, tommy vietor, mckay coppins, thanks for spending the part of the hour with me, i appreciate your perspective. coming up, we will have more on president biden's fight for his future. we have some new reporting on what is happening inside the white house. that is right after the break. . dangerous ladders. gutter muck. yuck. no wonder you hate cleaning your gutters. good thing there's leaffilter. our patented filter technology keeps leaves and debris out of your gutters forever. guaranteed. call 833- leaffilter to get started. and get the permanent gutter solution that ends clogs for good. they took the time to answer all of our questions. they really put us at ease. end clogged gutters for good. call 833.leaf.filter, or visit leaffilter.com ( ♪♪ ).

luke's mom: without easterseals, my luke would be a very different luke. look up. where you going? luke's mom: there's an incredible urgency to get your child into services, because the longer you wait, these motor pathways are set in stone. i knew he needed help. he needed these services. i'm almost there. yes, you are. you're so close. you're so strong. i'm gonna say hi. okay! let's say hi. hi! nolan's mom: none of my friends or people in our network have a child with these needs. and then you go to easterseals and it's such a good feeling to feel like you're in good hands. they really understand what you're going through. jaxon: at one point, i wasn't able to walk or ride my bike. the little things that other people take for granted that i need help with. sometimes those are hard because you don't want help.

but you need it. but children can't get the help they need without support from people like you. go online, call this number, or scan this code and donate just $19 a month. luke's mom: these children deserve access to care, and they need help. and if the funding's not there, it's hard to reach every single family. so please, visit this website, call or scan now. it's just 63 cents a day to provide life-changing services to these children. therapist: you are literally creating an opportunity for this child to grow and to be an independent, successful adult. join now, and we'll send you this one-of-a-kind t-shirt with our heartfelt thanks. to reach into your heart and see what your donation can do for these kids. it really does make a difference. you're helping kids believe in themselves.

go online, call or scan now to change a child's life forever. dave's company just scored the go online, call or scan now comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. with absorbine pro, pain won't hold you back from your passions. it's the only solution with two max-strength anesthetics

to deliver the strongest numbing pain relief available. so, do your thing like a pro, pain-free. absorbine pro. tonight, president biden

offered the strongest defense of his candidacy yet as he tries to convince voters and members of his own party to stand with him but new reporting today from the new york times' michael schmidt reveals that a small group of the president's longtime white house campaign aides and advisers are considering ways to persuade the president to exit the race. there are reportedly three factors being considered. this is the have to make the case to the president that they cannot win against former president trump. they have to persuade him to believe that another candidate what kamala harris could be trump and the have to assure biden that the process to choose another candidate would be orderly and not devolve into chaos in the democratic party. joining me now is michael schmidt, investigative reporter for the new york times. since you are talking to those in biden's orbit, i wonder whether they had any expectations for tonight or any particular hope for the president's performance. >> i'm sure they hoped he would do well, and they knew that this was a good opportunity to showcase himself again but i think there is a realization that there are larger forces at play here, and that putting the toothpaste back in the tube from the debate performance is something far larger than an interview with george stubble often this -- stephanopoulos or

the interview held today and i think they've come to that realization in recent days and that they face a massive obstacle in the president himself. i think that what you saw tonight was a fair assessment of what the president thinks but i think he is probably even more entrenched than we appreciated. he is a stubborn person who has defied the odds throughout his entire career. he has gone further than i think he ever thought he could and he has often done that as the underdog and now is in a massive political crisis and stand off with his own party, as he stares this down and i think the people closest to him that have been with him for a long time are increasingly realizing this, that it is an untenable situation and that the biggest obstacle is convincing him that he has to step aside. >> you mentioned one of the three prongs of the strategy to

convince the president is convincing him that he's going to lose to trump in november. what does that mean because every time the president is given in this press conference, for example, statistics about how his approval rating is underwater and is that a historic low, and is an unwinnable figure that he is not doing well and swing states, battleground states, there is insistence that the polling is not accurate so what do the aides practically think it means to convince president biden that he will lose to trump in november? >> i think he has to acknowledge that he has no direct path to winning and i think you see the problem. that is why we are in the standoff we are in. you just had someone on television and jim hines with

regardless of what his politics is, is a fairly reasonable, thoughtful person in washington to come out and call for the president of the united states to step aside. the way jim hines views the world is not very different than a lot of his colleagues and a lot of other people in the house and the senate and at the top of the democratic party and you have a president of the united states who tonight said you know, the poll numbers he did not take too seriously the poll numbers that look bad in that he thought he could overcome whatever odds that he had but also some of the other poll numbers about him is the best person to do this with things in his favor so he kind of was trying to have it both ways but at the end of the day, he is entrenched and he wants to move forward and he is going to try everything he can to do that, and that is why we are in the situation. we are now in the third week. we are entering the third week. it's been two weeks since the debate and we will be entering the third week where democrats and people close to him realizing that all we are doing is talking about you know, our armchair mental acuity, playing

doctor here and saying well you know, tonight he only fumbled three words and you know, he got four names right and he was good on foreign policy but he messed up -- that is not talking about the existential threat the democrats say donald trump poses to the country. >> how optimistic are they that they can stave off potential chaos in the party if biden does step down? >> i think there was a feeling certainly in the first week after the debate that the pressure was going to be so great that biden was going to step aside and folks like schumer and policy were not going to have to get more deeply involved in this and that it was going to take care of itself and i think what we have seen in the past few days is a realization that no, this is not going to take care of itself in terms of biden stepping aside, that there is going to have to be something larger that happens to go after that. you know, hines said that he made his decision to go public