designed to get all of us americans who are not comfortable with that opportunity to say, hey, this is not a democratic thing. this is a democracy think this is a freedom thing. to not have to go back to the type of country we were. we are going to go back into the future. the other thing is you see trump reacting in a very desperate manner and what does trump do when he gets concerned, michael? he reverts to these race war type of things. that is what he tried to do today and we cannot, as a country, allow that to define the terms of the race. i don't think kamala harris is going to do that. that is why she was very moderate in her comments tonight as she should have been. >> absolutely. thank you both so much for being with us tonight on this very interesting news day. well, folks, that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. >> listen, i like that you called it a very interesting news day. props to you.

today has been a lot. today has been a lot, and we're going to get into all of it in the next hour. thank you, my friend. it's good to see you. >> all right, take care now. until recently the national conversation about this 2024 presidential election has been largely focused on white working class voters. president biden considered himself the champion of the working and the middle class. donald trump's running mate, senator j.d. vance, he introduced himself of the republican national convention as the son of appalachia with hillbilly roots, a man who would fight for the workers in this country. the question of how black voters might vote this year, black voters a key segment of the electorate, that question has been unusually open ended. when president biden was still at the top of the ticket, polls showed him underperforming with black voters as they slipped to donald trump. an in-depth pew survey of nearly 9,000 dults published this

summer before biden dropped out found that 1 in 5 black men said they planned to vote for trump. in the 2016 election 13% of black men voted for trump, but in 2020, 19% of black men did. part of biden's problem is a candidate was trying to figure out how to stop black voters especially black men from deserting the party. since kamala harris has become the de facto nomno those numbers have changed and changed significantly. and now the trump campaign is in a tailspin as it tries to figure out whether voters of color, particularly black voters, are still in play. and so today in a remarkably ill advised appearance before the national association of black journalists, nabj, donald trump sat on stage for a question and answer session. >> a lot of people did not think it was appropriate for you to be

here today. you have pushed false claims about some of your rivals from nikki haley to former president barack obama saying that they were not born in the united states, which is not true. you have told four congresswoman of color who were american citizens to go back to where they came from. you have used words like animal and rabid to describe district attorneys. you attack black journalists calling them a loser saying the questions they ask are, quote, stupid and racist. you've had dinner with a white supremacist at your mar-a-lago resort. my question, sir, annoy you're asking black voters to support you, why should black voters trust you after you have used language like that? >> well, first of all, i don't think i've ever been asked a question in such a horrible manner, first question. you don't even say hello, how are you. and i think it's disgraceful that i came here in good spirit.

i think it's a very rude introduction. i don't know exactly why you would do something like that. you were half an hour late. just so we understand i have too much respect for you -- you couldn't get your equipment to work. in such a hostile manner, i think it's a disgrace. >> calling abc reporter rachel scott disgraceful, complaining these journalists couldn't figure out how to operate their equipment, repeatedly calling the black reporters late, all complaints that veered into racist tropes about tardiness and incompetence. that is how donald trump's nabj appearance went today. when trump was subsequently asked about claims that vice president harris is only on the ticket because she is a black woman, trump responded by questioning harris' racial

identity. >> she was always of indian heritage and she was only promoting indian heritage. i didn't know she was black until a number of years ago and she happened to turn black. so i don't know is she indian or is she black? >> she's always identified as black. >> i respect either one because she obviously doesn't. because she was indian all the way and all of a sudden she made a turn, and she became a black person. >> just to be clear, sir -- >> i think somebody should look into that when you ask to continue in a very hostile, nasty tone. >> that's donald trump openly questioning the racial identity of the country's first asian black vice president. while campaigning as attorney general for california and later as president of the united states in 2020 kamala harris repeatedly told her family story, the story of two immigrants one from jamaica and the other from india who found opportunity in the united states. on this point, kamala harris has

never been unclear. >> i was raised by a proud indian mother as a proud african american woman. i was the first woman elected -- first african american woman elected, an asian american woman elected in the state. >> harris' identity as a biracial american and the story of her immigrant heritage are two things that a lot of voters can relate to. but donald trump suggested to a room full of black people that harris' blackness was somehow inadequate. and in the hours since that debacle of than event, donald trump has only doubled down. he has made questioning vice president harris' blackness an actual campaign strategy. minutes after leaving the stage trump wrote on social media crazy kamala saying she's black, this is big deal. this evening as crowds gathered

for a rally in harrisburg, pennsylvania, the trump campaign projected above the stage an image of harris next to a headline that reads "california's kamala harris becomes first indian american u.s. senator." then at that same rally trump campaign advisor and lawyer alina hobba wept after vice president harris directly about her identity. >> i'm going to speak to you, ms. harris. i am a strong woman, a mom, a lawyer, and an american. and unlike you, kamala, i know who my roots are. i know where i come from. >> so that is the trump strategy

to win black voters this november. that is the strategy. and then there is the harris strategy. an hour ago vice president harris made remarks at the convention of the sigma gamma ro sorority, ones that make up the divine nine. these fraternities and sororities have a century long history of political organizing, mobilizing voters in black communities across the country. and this year with kamala harris atop the ticket the presidents of all nine groups published this letter promising to meet this critical moment with an unprecedented voter registration, education, and mobilization campaign. many of the 4 million member of the divine nine joined last week's organizing call for the group win with black women, the call that raised more than $1.5 million for the harris campaign. many members of the divine nine are also political journalists. it is that community of black

organizers that kamala harris spoke to tonight just hours after her opponent used his time on stage to insult them. >> it was the same old show, the divisiveness and the disrespect. and let me just say the american people deserve better. the american people deserve better. the american people deserve a leader who tells the truth, a leader that does not respond with hostility and anger when confronted with the facts. we deserve a leader who understands that our differences do not divide us. they are an essential source of our strength. >> joining me now is nbc news correspondentia mooegs alcindor, who was in the room for trump's

interview today. also with me jelani cobb, staff writer at "the new yorker." and rashad robinson, president of the civil rights non-profit color of change. so great to have all of you here with me. yamiche, you were in the room. how did trump's questioning of journalists blackness play in the room? >> good evening. i'm interested to see what jelani says because i was sitting next to him in the room. you had those questioning whether or not it was a good use of time to bring donald trump to the annual convention because he has questioned democracy and obviously some say really caused january 6th and the capitol attack to happen. but there were others who were curious about genuinely what he would say, wanted to see him answer questions about how he would impact the black community, how we would win over

people, how he could get people to trust them. so it started off with a little bit of tension but open minds. and immediately when he started attacking rachel scott of abc news, someone who's a dear colleague of all of ours, people started to gasp and were really stunned by the way he was talking to her. even though we've seen him talk that way to other people, black journalists in the organization, people were hoping maybe this time he would have a bit of decorum. and then when he started attacking vice president harris' identity people started openly and audibly reacting and saying that's a lie, that's not true. and someone who has been covering vice president harris for years now and now covering her campaign, i can tell you the clips that you played talking about her parents, she often tells the story about how they met as civil rights activists, how they used to push her in a stroller to go to protests as a little girl. this is someone who has very much articulated not only her identity, but how her identity

and her parents, their passion for civil rights they wanted her to go have justice and accountability. there were people wondering if this was the best use of time. i was one of the people texting people in the harris campaign and those close to the harris campaign because i wanted to know how they were reacting. and i got back people saying donald trump was unhinged, that it was below the belt even for him to question her identity because of how clear she's been. i have to remind people not only did she go to howard university, a black college, but joined the nation's first historic black sorority. she's one that's long cherished her african american identity, her black identity, as well as her indian american identity. it was really a sight to behold. i've seen a lot of remarkable things covering former president trump, but today it was just -- it stood out.

>> yeah, it is something to behold even if you weren't in the room. and dean cobb, of course you were at this convention given your role at the columbia school of journalism. this was a strategy. this wasn't just donald trump mouthing off. this is something they repeated, they have a screen ready, a projector shot ready at the rally. they have alina habba echoing trump's questioning of the blackness of harris. it's as if donald trump doesn't understand the long legacy of racism associated with questioning people's blackness. >> that's right. >> it is just a staggering, staggering oversight. but then should we expect more from the trump campaign? what are your thoughts on all of this? >> listen, first off to yamiche's point this is very much reminiscent of a comedian trying out new material. in the time since kamala harris has become presumptive nominee, you've seen the people on their

side really struggle to figure out what to say about her, how to approach this. and so it seems as if they were trotting out the next thing. let's say she's not really a black person. that portrays a stunning ignorance of african american, certainly a stunning ignorance of african american history. there's a long list of people who are multiracial who would be considered african american. frederick douglas, eartha kitt. if we went through the entire list we'd be talking about half the people in the history books. that's something not only frankly ignorant but also inflammatory. and so i don't think this works certainly for the audience he was talking to today, but i think it was meant to be an for an audience that was outside of that room, just throwing darts and seeing what sticks and

saying things insulting and saying -- literally like a comedian saying which lines get the laugh. >> yeah, i wonder what you think of it as a strategy, rashad. and by the way it's a multiprong strategy. fox news has a ciron. j.d. vance saying put on a southern accent echoing fox, and trump said the same thing. this is a portfolio of questioning what blackness really is. >> it's rich because we end up not talking about any of the issues. we end up not talking about the challenges this country is facing and where we are heading. and to jelani's point, part of trump's strategy is sort of a

long-standing republican strategy of republicans going into these black spaces not always to recruit new black voters or recruit new black supporters but sometimes signaling to white moderates they're willing to go and be around the black people. they're willing to speak directly to these audiences, which may not be supportive. that they're not necessarily racist the way they might be getting sort of labeled based off their policies or based off their prac ttss or based off who they hire and engage with. this is long-standing strategy, and i do think it's important that underneath the lies, the outrageous things trump says, we continue to focus on some of the things he says that can possibly break through. in that conversation he's doing also this long-standing sort of attack on immigrants and really trying to speak directly to black voters where he's sort of

blaming immigration for economic challenges that the black community may be facing and not, you know, talking about sort of the role of corporations, the role of the trump tax cuts, the role of all these different factors, which have actually led to the ways in which our economy may not be producing for everyone at that level and the work that actually has to be done. and so we actually have to do the work to make sure people understand that when those trump tax cuts expire next year, we want a kamala harris at the table to negotiate with and to push forward, to do the work to actually move us forward. it's also just rich to have, you know, his vice presidential nominee, j.d. vance, follow this up given that he has biracial children. it's kind of sick that he would play along with this as someone who claims to want to be a good father and talks about being a good family man, that he would

allow this, you know, three-time cheater on his wife, someone with five children by three different women to get up and put him in this position as to make attacks and level attacks that would actually attack his own family. >> yeah, i will say as a mixed race person myself, the thing about being mixed race is you can be two things at once and there are a lot of us in america who understand that. donald trump apparently is not one of them. yamiche, jelani, rashad, we're going to take a quick break. coming up donald trump calls himself the victim of a two tiered justice system, and you did hear that correctly. we're going to have more on trump's disastrous appearance. and later the nation was treated to a split screen. we're going to break it all down with the man behind one of the most successful grass roots

candidacies in recent political history. stay with us. candidacies in rec history. stay with us to duckduckgo on all your devie

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she didn't pass her law exam, so maybe she wouldn't pass her cognitive test. i'm just giving you the facts. >> to be clear -- >> she didn't pass her bar exam and she didn't think she'd ever pass it. and i don't know what happened. >> she did pass it. >> back with me yamiche alcindor, jelani cobb, and rashad johnson. she of course, did pass the bar. the obsession with barack obama's trade transcripts from ocdantal college. he threatened all of his schools not to release his own grades to the media but this preoccupation with black achievement or in donald trump's eyes black underachievement, what does that tell you about how donald trump sees black people? >> one, it's of a piece of other

kinds of delegitimization. we saw that with birtherism, which was essentially saying barack obama was not able to vote in the election he won. and he pivoted from that to demanding that he see barack obama's transcripts at occidental and columbia university, i should add. believing he was somehow illegitimate but refusing to subject himself to the same level of scrutiny. and so this is not -- and now we see the template they are attempting to deploy against kamala harris. you know, she would not be eligible to practice law in the state much less become the attorney general of the state of california without having passed the california bar. but it's, again, saying things, a comedian just trying out materials say this. maybe there are people who don't know you actually have to pass

the bar in order to become attorney general or to practice law in the state. so it's more of that same sort of strategy. >> yamiche, explain this strategy of undermining and questioning the competency of black women. repeatedly questioned whether they knew how to use their equipment, whether they had made him late, whether they were nasty, their questions were rude. i mean that follows the patterns of trump questioning the intelligence and the motivations of plenty of other black journalists who weren't even in that room. i want to play a little bit of a montage we have of some of trump's history on this. >> you know, i find it interesting because you do talk about reining in prosecutors especially when it comes to prosecutors that are prosecuting you. why doesn't that skepticism apply to law enforcement? >> well, i've been -- >> that is not actually the clip i was talking about, but you,

yourself, yamiche have been i'll call it a victim to donald trump. i believe he called you a racist questioner. he has called abby philip a stupid questioner. here we actually have the sound. let's play it. >> what a stupid question that is. what a stupid question, but i watch you a lot. you ask a lot of of stupid questions. >> when you call yourself a nationalists, some people saw that as emboldening white nationalists. >> that's such a racist question. honestly, i mean i know you have it written down and you're going to tell me -- let me tell you, that's a racist question. i watched her get up i mean you talk about somebody that's a loser. she doesn't what the hell she's doing. she's very nasty. >> yamiche, can you talk about your experience in the context of that with donald trump and what you sort of made of his posture today? >> well, i respect that you're asking that question.

i will say, first, i found myself as i as abby and april do as a working journalist and not really a victim. what you're trying to do is get the truth out of donald trump. in what you just played that was the mid-terms he did not have the sort of gains he want today have and democratshead a lot of success. i was questioning the idea he was playing footsie some people saw with white supremacists. that was the cycle at one point he had an ad deemed too prejudiced to play on fox news because he was talking about the border and the caravans, and that network which has a history in sort of people questioning whether or not they were also prejudiced themselves, they would not put that on the air. what you see here is really black women in particular, in the case of just showing the clips that you showed there -- black women in particular trying to get answers, being at work, doing their work, and being met with this tension, with these insults. but at the end of the day, i mean, i know for myself i'm

focused on getting answers for the american people. that's why i became a journalists. that's why i know abby and my friend april became journalists. i think if we zoom out here let's think about the context all of this is happening in. for the last few weeks donald trump was not the lead story. even when he almost got assassinated that was a big story, but we covered it for a few days but then the story went back to the fact that president biden had an uncertain future as the democratic nominee and ultimately dropped out and endorsed by president harris. and ever since that happen all you've been seeing at the top of the "a" blocks and i will say the enthusiasm of what voters want to talk about, republicans want to talk about is vice president harris, the enthusiasm, the energy. she sort of has blocked out former president trump's ability to just tweet over the news cycle to go back to a cycle where we're talking about trump at the top of this.

and i think talking to republicans they were worried about how they were going to counter what really was a bunch of positive stories how kamala harris just last night had 10,000 people dancing and swag surfing and being so happy about the fact they were going to go to the polls. megan thee stallion, a grammy winning rapper, saying we're going to go to the polls for harris. there was all this energy and here's donald trump wrestling back the news cycle for himself. >> it's such an important point trump hasn't been at the center of the maelstrom and threw himself back into today, rashad. i was interested to hear what vice president harris unfolded this afternoon at her rally. she basically said it's the same old story and we do not need someone to divide us. what did you make of that response and strategy and not take up the division donald trump would like to sow, rashad? >> well, i don't think she

should take the bait. we've seen this over and over about donald trump. and he has a ceiling about the number of people going to come onboard with this message. this is an opportunity for vice president harris to really take ahold of this unprecedented energy that we're seeing this cycle. weeks ago it was hard to get people to volunteer, to engage in this election siegal. it was hard to get people excited. it was hard for so many progressive grass roots organizations to muster up the energy and walk into this cycle and feel like we're going to have the foot soldiers to engage and be able to fight back against what we know will be mis and disinformation fueled by social media platforms, which we know is an uphill battle ipso many ways. now this energy is an opportunity for vice president harris to really speak to the public about what she will do in the four years that she will have as president if elected, and an opportunity to be able to translate this energy into action, to get people out and to

engage. and so what we are seeing from donald trump is a lot of flailing, and what everyone should recognize about him is he is this kind of big budget hollywood movie with bombs, distractions, plot twists. and oftentimes there's a piece of the public that will sort of forgive a big budget hollywood movie when it doesn't all line up, when it doesn't make sense. we can't get into the arguing about what doesn't or does make sense. what we have to play is an alterative vision of the future, a future where more people have an opportunity. and for folks to recognize that in these big questions that are coming down the pipe, do we want someone like donald trump that is going to be on the other side arguing with himself or arguing about things people don't care about or don't matter, or do we want someone that's going to be serious enough we can hold on the other side of the table, that we can push on the issues that matter most. it's why the color of change

pact affiliated with color of change was so proud to endorse vice president harris today and excited we're seeing unprecedented numbers of volunteers willing to show up and engage. it's something exciting happening right now, and i think that that is what we need to focus on, and we need to translate that into more energy and engagement. >> can i say one really quick thing? i know rashad is telling us not to get into the down and dirty. but nlbj is a stellar organization that helps black journalists, myself included get professional development, sources and mentor. this is an organization doing the work. and he came and said we weren't able to put together an event, the sound was bad. from my understanding that was wasn't happening. i want to clear that up. nabj was doing their best to put on an event and didn't have some of the issues he was talking about. >> yeah, i could hear him

perfectly fine for what that's worth. thank you for joining me tonight. really appreciate it. coming up trump continues to use the term black jobs. today while reporting the black vote he attempted to define it. so what are black voters and everyone else to make of it? later this hour there's new reporting as protrump election deniers working as election officials in key battleground states. what could go wrong? stay with us. es what could go wrong? stay with us (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply. all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions.

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the latest bloomberg morning consul poll shows vice president kamala harris leading trump by one point, which is within the margin of error within swing state voters. what are we to take make of the two dueling campaign strategies with donald trump speaking to the national association of black journalists and vice president kamala harris addressing sigma gamma ro sorority that make up what is known as the divine nine. joining me now is campaign manager for bernie sanders 2020 presidential campaign. thank you for being with me. i think today was an interesting case study in how these two campaigns are operating, and what would you make of the trump strategy to go to a high profile conference, a q&a session and say nothing of the editorial that emerged from it, and the strategy to go down and, you know, with a network of black

sorority women and organizers for lack of a better term who have a proven historical record of mobilizing voters in previous election cycles. >> kamala harris is consolidating the democratic base, firing people up, and spending her time to jump from an event right now, and next week i think she won several battleground states in the course of a few days, so she's on fire and she's trying to build that energy. trump -- i think yamiche mentioned it in the prior segment, i think she was right on he needs to get the mic back in this hands. and the one of the tactics of trump he psychologically controls his opponent when he feels like the mic has left his hands. here comes haley and ron desanctimonious and jeb bush and marco rubio small hands, and all kinds of things he's laid at the feet of all the prior people just to try to psychologically control them and control the narrative back over to him. and quite frankly what it does

is try to distract the opponent from talking about the things they want to talk about. you saw with vice president harris tonight she's not going to get distracted by it. trump would say i know the messages, and the two words we've seen from her over and over, alex, are freedom, which is freedom to control your own body, thrive in this economy, and prosecutor. i'm a tough prosecutor who's going to bring accountability and make things happen for you. that's working for her. and the more she does that and introduces herself to a lot of people going to come online and dial into this race for the first time, that's what they need to hear from. >> yeah, and just as an organizing strategy and the trump campaign is not interested in grass roots door knocking. they're not interested in the sort of shoe leather campaigning. that doesn't feel like the strategy democrats are pursuing, right? this is like an established network of people who are already in community with one another and talking with one another in a very real

grassroots fashion as opposed to kind of making hay among an assembled group of black journalists that don't have any particular connection to trump or his campaign. >> i am confident you're seeing the enthusiasm already that the democrats will have a strong grass roots game in all the core battleground states and beyond to turn out the vote. you mentioned trump, and yes, he has a different tactic. he relies more on social media, not the classic organizing. we now hear from "the new york times" there's a super pac coming online to try to fill in the gaps for him, to do some of this organizing. here's the caution, though, and i want all of our democratic allies to hear this. donald trump has been in two presidential elections, 2016 and 2020. in each of them he outperformed the number of votes people thought he was going get heading into election day. so we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking because he's not investing in certain things we are investing in, people are not going to turn up. these rallies in the crowds he

generates are organizing strategies for them, and i would go into election day assuming that whatever the polls are, he's going to outperform them because that has been the track record. and just like in 2020, our out-performance, our voter turnout is just going to swamp his, and hopefully we crush it. >> it's an important cautionary note to sound because we have reporting from "the new york times" suggesting she is a favorite right now to win the popular vote, but trump still has the lead on the electoral college and that is the reality of getting elected in the u.s. presidency, you've got to win the electoral college. what would your advice be to people looking at the biden-harris strategy and turn the momentum into real practical victory? >> they know they're voters. that's a huge advantage for trump. they know who voted in '16 and '20. we don't know necessarily all the voter universe for harris.

i think it could be larger -- it could be larger if young people turn out in large numbers, but it means the work for us that much harder to make sure we're trying to reach out beyond what might have been the biden turnout vote and try to talk to people and not assume we already know where they're at because harris could turn and move. and could frankly move the other way, but it's going to require that organizing person to person. >> always good to talk to you, my friend. when we come back, the days of conspiracy theorists searching for evidence of election fraud may not be behind us. there is some chilling new reporting laying out why 2024 could be maybe even more chaotic than 2020. that's next. 2020. that's next. sleep more deeply and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattresses exclusive gel flex grid

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i have been accused of shredding ballots tabulated in an election i didn't run. i have been accused of inserting fake ballots delivered from a south korean plain. supervisor hickman has even been accused of feeding ballots to hundreds of thousands of chickens at his farm and then purposely incinerating them. >> points for innovation. that was steven ricker, the maricopa county arizona recorder and a republican back in the spring of 2021. after the 2020 presidential election, maricopa county became the epicenter of the maga conspiracy that our election system is somehow rigged. and one of the lonely, sane

republican voices standing up to these conspiracy theories was maricopa county steven richer. the republican who will take his place on the ticket is this guy, arizona state representative justin heap. justin heap, who will not give a straight answer to this really important question. >> did donald trump win the presidential election in 2020 in arizona? >> look, i know this is -- seems to be the only question people want to -- >> oats the last question i'll ask you after a number of other questions. >> i've been asked this question over and over again. i'm not interested in discussing what's happened. i'm an attorney. i don't make statements that i don't know if i can prove. >> that is not the answer you want from the person who may be overseeing your elections. the good news is that steven richer will still be on the job through january of next year. so at least this next election

in the most populous city in a key swing state, at least that one is going to be in steven richer's hands. but the bad news is a lot of other election deniers will be in charge of their local elections, and they could have a huge impact this november. yesterday nate silver relaunched his presidential election forecast, and it shows kamala harris as a favorite to win the popular vote, but it also shows donald trump ahead of harris when it comes to the electoral college. so there are pretty good odds we may be barrelling towards an incredibly tight race here, one that will be decided by just a few thousand votes in one swing state or another. and wouldn't you know it this week rolling stone came out with new reporting showing that protrump election deniers are working as local election officials in at least 16 counties across the six key battleground states. now, these are not all necessarily giant high population counties like

maricopa county, but unfortunately that may not really matter. as election lawyer mark elias explains in rolling stone, they are counting on the fact that if they don't certify several small counties, you cannot certify the state-wide results. if i haven't scared you enough already, coming up i'm going to be joined by senator amy klobuchar to talk about a whole other kind of electoral weapon in the wrong heads a threat to upend the election. that's next. a threat to upend the election that's next. good thing you don't need to fingerstick. how's all that food affect your glucose? oh, the answers on your phone. what if you're heading low at night? [notifications ringing] wow, it can alert you?! and you can even track your goals. manage your diabetes with confidence with dexcom g7. the most accurate cgm. learn more at dexcom.com.

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earlier this week elon musk reposted a video about kamala harris on "x," the social media platform he controls. musk captioned it this is amazing. it looks like a kamala harris campaign ad but in a fake a.i. generated ad it sounds like she's calling herself a diversity hire and sounds like she's mocking president biden. the video is a deep fake, and although the original version of it was labeled it a parody, when elon musk posted the video he did not post that information or a disclaimer telling his 193 politicalian followers that it was manipulated. with the 2024 election happening in 97 days deep fake political ads are not just theoretical problems here. senator amy klobuchar today tried to pass bills that would according to the senator would outlieu the use of deep fake political ads to influence

elections. joining me now is minnesota senator amy klobuchar. >> well, i was listening to your previous segment and the fact we put in place a secretary of state who obeys the laws because the people of arizona and people next door, nevada, they said, no. we're not going to have democracy deniers in office. so i think that should give some people hope. but now you go to the next sophisticated scam, and that is that people are going to with no federal laws in place attempt to use deep fake videos. you are not going to know as we saw in the voice of joe biden in new hampshire telling people not to vote, that was a robo call. you're not going to know if it's the candidate you love or the candidate you don't like unless some rules are put in place. and 18 states, though, have done this including mississippi.

texas has banned deep fakes. mississippi and utah have at least required disclaimers, so these two bills i put it are bipartisan, one disclaimer bill, and lisa murkowski with josh hawley and susan collins. we have to make exceptions for parodies, okay, but still require those be labeled so people will know what they're watching. otherwise as "the washington post" says democracy dies in the darkness. you're not going to know what's happening, and i very much fear as mitch mcconnell as come out against both these bills despite the bipartisan support that we're going to see some really bad hi-tech games played at the expense of candidates on the federal level. >> yeah, i mean i got the y'all ready for this josh hawley signed onto this part of your statement there. given the republican interest in passing something like this, first of all, what is the

argument against it? and secondly, i meantime's of the essence, right? there are 97 days until the election, and this technology is already out there. >> the argument that they made was a speech argument on first amendment. okay, so then why did republican governors in utah and in mississippi and in texas and in florida sign these bills for their state political ads? because they're not against the constitution. time and time again the supreme court has said and upheld the ability to put disclaimers on ad. this would be prepared by artificial and to ban deep fakes that bill goes to the really serious, serious violations where you literally cannot tell if it's kamala harris or if it's donald trump, where it is a video that looks and sounds like

them, or robo call that sounds like them. and those just should be banned. they're banned in other countries. they should not be allowed and it basically says to the platforms many of which support this bill, they can say, nope, this is not okay, we're taking this down. and right now we're going to fec, they'll be some attempts, some of the platforms are rightfully putting policies in place to take them down, but it's going to be a patchwork. and what we need is to have laws that are sophisticated as those trying to mess around with our democracy, which could also be foreign interests from russia to china to iran that are messing around. and that's why you see bipartisan support for this. i'm going to keep trying through the fall and get it through the rules committee with senator schumer with strong support of getting this done. >> we wish you godspeed. "the new york times" reports kamala harris among others is being attacked on platforms with new technologies and in front of

bigger audiences than barack obama and hillary clinton were. she's a particular target of this manipulative technology. >> that being said i've never seen so much push back in such a good way. from brat summer, which we discussed last week to cat lady memes. this is an all out effort to take this on and meet them where they are, which in the past has been difficult, and i feel good about this allout effort to take this on the internet. >> we will take the heavy dose of optimism. appreciate your time and efforts. that is our show for tonight. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. i think it's a very nasty question. i have answered the question. i have been the best president for the black population since abraham lincoln. that is