are not seeking perfection in any candidates and lord knows, the republicans definitely aren't because of a 34 count felon who has two impeachments under his belt and a whole bunch of other indictments that are pending, and in our community, we look at it and say, how many baby mamas do you have? it could not have been barack obama and somehow ascend to the presidency. but more importantly it is our vice president who will take us to the futures of taking us back. she consistently says we will not go back. we will not go back to the 1960s where so many things were impossible. >> jasmine crockett, thank you so much. democrat of texas. that does it for me. thank you for watching and catch me on saturday and sunday morning. you can catch ali velshi content on youtube. stay. inside with jen psaki starts right now.

announce a running mate at any moment. donald trump is backing out of a debate he already agreed to. legendary democratic strategist james carville and the reverend al sharpton are standing by to talk about all of it. lk plus, governors think josh shapiro is the odds on to get onto the ticket. ke sarah longmont is going to tell us what she is hearing. later, i will talk to elissa slotkin who is running for the senate, and one of the most closely watched races in the country. >> okay. the first thing we should tell you today is that we are watching and waiting for any news at all about kamala harris's running mate. the vice president has been meeting with candidates one on one at her home in washington this weekend. josh shapiro, tim walz, and jo arizona senator mark kelly are

all meeting with her today. former attorney general eric holder who is the guy who is overseeing the vetting process has been seen exiting her house as well, and that's an important thing to watch for, too. she's holding a rally on tuesday night with her running a mate in philadelphia. we are getting very, very close to a decision here. if we learn anything new at all, i will let you know as soon as we know. the fact is, no matter who she chooses is going to build even more momentum on top of the already growing momentum for the harris campaign. the vice president has been vi holding big, energizing rallies, like the one with megan the stallion where she performed and the wrapper coined the phrase hotties for in harris. she bought on a number of veterans like jennifer palmieri and mitch stewart to add to an already seasoned team. the money is continuing to pour in at an insane pace.

the harris campaign said this week they raised a record- breaking $310 million in july. in a brand-new cbs news poll out just this morning, harris has a 1 point edge nationally across trump and they are tied across the battleground stages, which is the most important and to watch. the momentum is pretty clear to anyone watching. what is also clear is that all the attention on harris, although momentum is driving trump kind of crazy. and he is twisting himself into a pretzel as a result. and i will tell you that this weekend was a weird one for donald trump. even by donald trump standards.p i mean, at his own rally -- whereby the way, he had a much harder time billing the venue harris appeared out earlier in the week -- he had some very strange things to say. like when he congratulated vladimir putin, of all people, m for the historic prisoner swap that freed american citizens from russia. he also repeatedly attacked

george is very popular, very beloved republican governor, brian kemp, for not being sufficiently loyal to him. >> atlanta is like a killing field, and your governor ought to get off his -- and do something about it. brian kemp, your governor -- we got elected, by the way. is a very disloyal person. they are doing everything possible to make 2024 difficult for republicans to win. kemp is very bad for the republican party. you can do a lot better and you will do a lot better with a better governor. he's a bad guy, and he's not doing this country a good service. is a bad guy, he's a disloyal guy, and is a very average governor. bad guy. >> okay. first of all, none of that is true. and beyond that, brian kemp is a wildly popular republican governor and a very important

state where trump was literally speaking. he was just saying that on the stage in his home state. a guy who was open to campaigning with him despite not supporting him in the primary, it doesn't seem like it anymore. trump is twisting himself into this very strange, weird pretzel. early on the day on saturday before all the dictator congratulating and bashing of popular members of the party inf his own state, donald trump pulled out of a debate he had already agreed to. trump said he would not be attending the already scheduled abc news debate on september 10th. instead, he proposed a debate on fox news, of course, a week earlier with a full arena audience. let's pause on that for a moment. he is saying he will not participate in the debate he already agreed to sometime ago unless it turns into a rally with fox moderators. got it. for her part, harris responded by saying, it is interesting how anytime, anyplace, becomes

one specific time, one specific safe space. i will be there on september 10th, like i agree to. i hope you will, too. this is what it looks like when one candidate has all the momentum and the other one doesn't know how to do about it. here's the thing. kamala harris is going continued on the spotlight for a while here. her bp pick is coming any moment. she will hold rallies all e across battleground states. a couple of weeks later, there will be the democratic convention. and donald trump is going to hate every second of that. you know why? because he loves attention, and he will get more and more outrageous and unhinged as a result. we are likely to see more ugly, racist attacks like the one we saw from trump this week in chicago when he questioned the vice president's racial identity.si the good news is, she seems ready to respond to that one, too. >> it was the same old show. the divisiveness and the

disrespect. and let me just say -- the american people deserve better. the american people deserve better. the american people deserve a leader who tells the truth. a leader who does not respond with hostility and anger when confronted with the facts. we deserve a leader who understands that our differences do not divide us. they are an essential source of our strength. >> that's a pretty good s response to all of it, i think. to the unhinged rallies, to the games over debates, it is the same old stuff in america deserves better. she doesn't make it entirely about her. she makes it about the people they are both running to

represent. james carville is a longtime democratic strategist. president of the national action network and host a politics nation. these are two of the wisest and most fun people to talk politics with, and they join me now. i have been so excited about this conversation. let me start with you, because the debate and donald trump's actions over the last 24 hours are just a little strange, but i want to -- it reminded me of when president george h.w. bush was hesitant to debate clinton in 1982. clinton supporters showed up at busch rallies in a chicken suit. their support is there that probably brings you back. it feels like we have kind of another chicken on our hands here. you saw the vice president's response. how do you think she should be handling this? >> i want to thank reverend al publicly for participating. i think that she should say, i will debate him on fox on the

night of september 18th. because i happen to know he's going to be in manhattan on the 18th, because that's when they are going to sentencing. i'm sure the judge would give a delay in the execution of sentencing to allow him to show up at a debate. so if you want to have a debate, let's have it september the 18th when he's in an ankle bracelet. >> that is quite a visual. i tend to agree that she should just do the fox debate. why not? but what do you think? >> i totally agree with mr. carville, because i think he is right. i think it also is well emphasized to the public if she were to make that response, that this is a race between a prosecutor and a felon. let's not take off the table. he has a sentencing date. and i think carville is right. we can ask the judge not to remand him so he can go to the

debate, or ask his parole officer, can he depend the debate? why are we taking off the table this is a convicted felon that is debating a woman who was the prosecutor in san francisco and then elected state prosecutor of all the state of california before she went to the senate and became vice president. >> no question. i don't think anyone should take that off the table. it's an interesting idea to do it the day of the sentencing, so there's a couple of questions here. but i degree. she's a great debater and could be good no matter what the form is. i've been dying to ask you guys about the bp process. james, let me start with you. you said, and i agree with this, the vp pick is not going to -- historically hasn't massively moved the electoral needle. people shouldn't have that expectation, i guess i should say. sometimes 1 point, sometimes two points, sometimes nothing. but there has been reasons that people have picked their running mates, right?

clinton picked gore, two young guys. obama picked biden, an older senator with experience. it's about chemistry and also about complementing. who do you think politically would complement harris the best of the people you've seen out there? >> i would be totally satisfied with any of them. what we have is generational, and it really made a difference. the jd vance thing has hurt trump, and trump knows it. he's a hit dog, and he's barking. in rural america, it's the hit dog that barks. and he's barking. this vance thing is blown up in his face. he's giving scratch like a cat. >> by cat ladies, perhaps. y i don't even know. but do you have a view? i like poorly, it doesn't matter? she is obviously a strong e

candidate. is anything that would help ly complement her from what you see out there politically? >> maybe a little bit. none of these people would hurt her in the least. it's just a question of, what is the need that she wants to fulfill. and she's earned the right to make that choice herself and be -- people like reverend al and i were good democrats, we are going to fall in line and delete whoever it is. there's nothing that we say here today that's going to sway it one way or another. i'm ready to salute and get it going. >> no question. let me ask you, reverend sharpton, you know her well. you thought about these types of choices. what do you think? you don't need to name names if you want, but kind of what qualities or what you think she would be looking for? >> i think she will be looking for someone that agrees with her on the direction of the country that is not trying to, in any way, not follow the policies and visions she has outlined. and i think someone that has the killer streak to work with. a lot of this is about

chemistry. the three or four presidents i've had access to, i particularly with president obama and joe biden, i always observe the chemistry they had with each other in the room. you could have someone that is the best candidate, you can have someone that is aligned with you in terms of policy, but if the chemistry doesn't work, they are not going to be the one you want to work within the white house. >> no question. i think the trumpet vance chemistry might be awkward at this point in time, if i were to guess. reverend sharpton, let me ask you about a couple of the events from the last several days. i know you spoken to this. he made some outrageous comments about the vice president. you said he shouldn't be surprised, this is how he is. he is also called her unqualified. is kind of thrown out a range of offensive things at her.

you know trump, too. you've known him for years. what do you think is driving this, and what you think that the vice president should be doing in response? >> well, i think there was some debate about whether the black journalists should've invited in. i think the real question is why he accepted. he accepted the invitation to do exactly what he did -- he wanted to play to his maga base . i will go to a black city, i will beat them in the line, i will show them that we are still in charge. he was appealing to a white supremacist base and a very right-wing base. and that's what he did, from the first question. he said, you know, he didn't use the term blacks, but he inferred it. he dug in. he wanted to show he was not there to be cordial. i don't know why people thought donald trump was going to go to this forum and tell them to all join hands and say, we shall overcome. that is not donald trump. and i think that vice president harris has responded correctly,

clarify where she needed that, first of all, she did not become one that belatedly talked about her blackness. all of us have always seen her in her blackness, not only admit it, but embrace it. she went to a historical black college. she's pledged to a black fraternity. she ran as the first black d.a. in san francisco, black attorney general, black vice president. when did donald trump say that she went from saying she is just indian to being black? it's all fabricated. it's what he tried to do to barack obama. he's not a real american. he is trying to say now she is not really black. it's all trying to act like the disingenuous liars, and you can't trust them. and obviously, it's not working for him this time. it didn't work in 2000 -- 2004

and 2008 when he tried it on brack obama when he was outside of the process. >> i remember that well. old dog, same old tricks in the same ways. we talked in the past just about how the more people see trump's crazy, the better it is. r people are also trying to get to know harris at the same time. there's a lot of good moments for harris coming up. abp pick, campaigning with thati in the convention. how do they keep the pressure on and attention on trump's crazy? n >> i'm a bookmaker. i'm not going to dignify it with a first letter, but i think he is deteriorating at that rate. and he is getting worse. i mean, he has always been terrible, and he's going to do everything he can to keep himself front and center, you know? i mean, i'm sure -- there's no chance that vance is not going to stop saying stupid things.

that part is coming our way. but he is deteriorating, and i don't know how much worse he's going to get between now and election day. >> we will all be watching. we will be talking about it. james carville, reverend al sharpton. thank you so much. >> thanks, al. >> coming up, we just got our first preview of what could be abp matchup clapped back at a very weird attack from jd vance. but first, congresswoman elissa slotkin leslie ncwith her reaction to vladimir putin's kind words at the rally last night. we will be right back. right b.

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means is he is just profamily. >> i am profamily. >> is very family oriented and he thinks families are a great thing. >> that is what i think brings the most meaning to life, his family. >> he loves family. >> so that is what they say. but as always, you have to watch what they do, because here is what senator vance has done lately. back in june, he voted against a bill that would have guaranteed access to ivf and made it easier to start a family. that doesn't sound very profamily to me. when the senate voted on friday to extend the child tax credit for american families, jd vance must've been all over, right? well, let's roll the tape on what he was up to that day. >> all right, my friends. >> should we test here? >> we need to toast. >> this is a good stuff here. high caffeine, low calorie.

>> when you're out here, you need a little bit of everything. >> yes, you do. >> that's right. he skipped at the southern border. like i said, watch what they do, not what they say. joining me now is democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin of michigan. she's no candidate for u.s. senate in one of the most closely watched races in the country. it's great to see you. thank you so much for joining me. i want to talk about your race. it's great to see you. i wanted to start with -- i just played a little bit of jd vance really trying to position himself as a profamily warrior. someone who would really fight for middle-class families in places like michigan. this is why he ran for congress to begin with, right? and obviously, what he is doing is quite the contrary. what do you think of his comments in the last couple of weeks as you watch how contradictory his statements versus his actions are? >> i think is a great

cheerleader and representative of what is going on, frankly in many places across the country with these candidates. we have a pattern. it's a well-worn pattern or people vote a certain way, sponsor certain bills, they have a pattern of behavior that is, in this case, against ivf. something breaks onto the scene like the alabama ruling, and suddenly no one in alabama can access ivf. the public is upset, people are concerned. it looks bad. and so they say, wait a minute, we are for this. don't worry. in contrast to their record. and then when they have an opportunity to actually make good on those words, to actually vote on this ivf religious says, hey, across the country, women have access to ivf. they refused to do it. this is why we can't be by jd vance or any of these other folks who are running who say one thing and do another. actions speak louder than words. it's the same as kindergarten.

>> i feel like this is a slot in for senate t-shirt baby to make out there. just given your national security background, i want to ask about the prisoner swap we saw this weekend which was such a significant moment. take a listen to what donald trump said at his rally in atlanta last night. >> by the way, i like to congratulate vladimir putin ravi made yet another great deal. did you see the deal we made? we want to get people in. we have 59 hostages. i've never paid anything. >> you can kind of hear a pin drop even at that rally. just given your background and given all the issues, how much you worked on a lot of these issues, i just wanted to get your reaction to that. >> look, it just continues, this kind of unbelievable record of, at every possible moment, bowing and sort of deflecting and supporting things that putin has done. i will never understand it. i remember back in 2017, he is standing up there at a press

conference with putin, and instead of believing our own intelligence community on what russia had done during the general election here in 2016, he sort of said kowtow to vladimir putin on the nationals agent said, i believe you and not my own intelligence community about what you did and did not do. it is so completely outside the zone of normal for a republican president, and i have to say this one is very personal. the rally last night, when he celebrating or congratulating vladimir putin, paul whelan is a michigander. six years sitting in a work camp in russia. he is a former marine. we have billboards up here on our highways welcoming back home. we do deals sometimes. no one likes to do them, but we do them. and i think it shows that, when it comes to having a president of the united states, the idea of someone who does kowtow's to vladimir putin after all he has done, it is disturbing. >> let's talk about michigan. you are running in a very

important senate race. it's a must win senate race. obviously, it's an important race on the presidential level. vice president harris and her running mate will be visiting detroit on wednesday. her first trip to michigan. how is this all -- and her being at the ticket, how is it impacting your race for senate ? >> i mean, it is hard to overstate how this change the air in the room, and i knew it the day after the announcement. i was flying back to d.c. for votes, in congress. and the plane was deplaning ahead of us, and a bunch of university of michigan students got off, coming back home from the d, and they all saw me and said, congresswoman, did you see the news? this is so exciting. all of our friends are registering, everybody wants to volunteer. we are so excited. you knew from that moment that something had changed. and i've been knocking doors in detroit and in flint, and the

west side of the state in grand rapids. it's just been a complete palpable difference in energy and excitement, which can affect every race up and down the ticket. >> politics is supposed to be about good people and excitement and energy and all of it. congresswoman elissa slotkin. thank you so much for joining me. coming up, we still don't know who kamala harris will choose to be her vp, governor josh shapiro is always proving he's able to take on jd vance. we will talk about it when we come back. come back. get a free tech check. and special offers. don't miss out. get started today. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events

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of barack obama. >> barack obama was probably our most gifted orator in my time. kind of a weird insult, i guess. but look -- i will say this about jd vance. it is real hard being honest with the american people when you are not being honest with yourself. jd vance is a total phony baloney. he is the most inorganic candidate i think i have ever seen on the national stage. he doesn't know what he believes, and that is why it is impossible for him to articulate a coherent message to the american people. >> sarah longwell joins me now. she knows i'm a groupie. she is the executive director for republican voters against trump and publisher of the bulwark. we know the vice president will meet with the leading candidates, the new york times

is describing it as a final chemistry test, whatever that means. you have been pretty bullish on governor schapiro. how do you think he would boost the ticket? >> part of it is that i'm from pennsylvania, and you know how hard it is to get more than 60% of people in pennsylvania to agree on anything? one thing they all agree on is that they approve of the job josh shapiro is doing. in a state that is the tipping point date, that is an enormous windfall of electoral votes, i have always thought that josh shapiro was the straightforward pick. it would be one thing if he wasn't a particularly good politician, and i think what we've seen out of him both in terms of his record, and when you do focus groups, people from pennsylvania will all tell you that a bridge collapsed, part of the highway, and he had it fixed in a couple of days. they see that as good government, that he is just consistently someone who runs straight down the middle of what a pennsylvania voter wants.

and someone who plays really well in pennsylvania has a good shot at playing well in places like michigan and wisconsin, which is still the most straightforward path for kamala harris. and so that's what i think he brings to the ticket. he's a great political athlete and probably brings the most important date. unless there chemistry test is a real flock, i would still be bullish on him. >> to be a fly on the wall for the chemistry test. you did talk to some pennsylvania voters. you talked about them in your podcast recently, because you did do some focus groups. i want to play some of those and we will talk about it on the others i. >> the thing about schapiro that stands out more for me is that you can't do those things by yourself. the senate in pennsylvania is controlled by republicans, and that is attractive to me, that these feats have been able to be accomplished in a bipartisan light. >> i want to see his clinical ascendancy tied to kamala harris.

i think josh shapiro is going to be a future president of the united states. >> he seems sincere, i guess, and he seems mart. i'm not really sure why i think those two things, but that's the strong impression that i've gotten. i guess i kind of work off my got. >> it's always interesting to hear of voters actually think, which is what this is all about. you were saying earlier, the qualities, as you said it, he hasn't pennsylvania could play well in other states as well. were there other things that came up in your discussions about him with pennsylvania voters that were surprising to you? or if you think that are important for people to know? >> i think a lot of the swing voters, people who went from trump and '16, biden and '20, a lot of them are still center, center-right in orientation. i think what he brings to the ticket is, people view him as a moderate. i think for kamala

harris, her biggest liability with these particular types of swing voters is the phrase san francisco progressive. i just can't tell you how deep in the sort of center-right psyche or even just in the center psyche, the idea of a california progressive is to these voters. it is scary to them. but look, somebody who comes up a lot is tim walz. governor of minnesota. out in the groups particularly, but i would probably argue it is between those two. and i think progressives are more comfortable with him because they think the t-shirt in the hat and the coaching and the hunting, i think he codes right. and that could be a little bit true. maybe in the way that fetterman could bring on sort of a different kind of swing voter, more of those obama trump voters, working-class voters, less so than these college- educated suburban types. i would be nervous about his progressive record. he has a long congressional

history, unlike josh shapiro, who doesn't have a huge record to pick apart. they are pretty progressive votes, and i think that could be a liability when her biggest liability is that people view her as a san francisco progressive. i think you would want balance on that ticket, but you know, i can sort of see a case for both of them. i would take schapiro. i think it's the most straightforward way. but if tim walz is as good as we have seen him, he can also put some people in play that currently aren't. >> it is so interesting because i was working at the democratic committee working for congress. now the world is kind of learned of him over the past couple of weeks. just a reminder of the democratic bench. he has gained a lot of fans, as you know, by kind of sticking to this weird label really pushing this weird label that other people are taken on labeling vance and trump. what do you think -- whoever it is -- the vice presidential candidate is going out to attack not just trump, but also vance. what do you think is the best way to appeal to swing voters?

>> i think this is where i think both schapiro and tim walz do a good job, and that they both seem pretty comfortable in their own skin and they feel authentic. the thing that is killing jd vance is that voters -- i have listened to tons of swing voters since i was picked, and they don't like him at all. they think he seems like a phony. the only things i know about him or how he flip-flopped on trump, but also, it is like vibes, right? voters can smell inauthenticity, and that is what jd vance wreaks up to them, and i think that in both schapiro's case and in tim walz case, their ability to talk to people and articulate their positions effectively, to seem comfortable in their own skin, to look like they mean what they are saying, that is the kind of thing you just sort of can't put a value on until you see it put into practice. because the voters, that's what they respond to.

>> it turns out when you are saying what you actually think, it is easier than changing entirely what you think. turns out voters can mallet. your podcast is great, really appreciate you joining me today. >> thanks for joining me. >> a historic prisoner swap and a reminder that lots of very hard days can lead to one great day. some thoughts about that when we come back. and 5g solutions from t-mobile for business. t-mobile connects 100,000 delta airlines employees. powers tractor supply stores nationwide with reliable 5g business internet. and helps red bull revolutionize coverage of live events. this is how business goes further with t-mobile for business. why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten.

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diplomacy is always full of starts and stops. deals can fall apart. so for the people working on those deals three months if not years of negotiation, moments like the one we saw this week are worth everything. late thursday night after being released from prison in russia, wall street reporter evan gershkovich , and former he marine paul we'll end, were greeted by friends and family at joint base anderson maryland. you can see the video there. as jake sullivan put it, it was an example of one of the good days in diplomacy. >> i spent a lot of time with the families of evan and paul, and most of the time as you can imagine, those are tough conversations. but not today. today -- excuse me. today was a very good day.

>> their safe return was a result of an extraordinary feat of international diplomacy involving seven countries. and for nearly two years, this prisoner swap repeatedly stood on the verge of falling apart. but there diplomacy and sheer will and leadership, it didn't. that was thanks to many people, like evan gershkovich's mother, who for years worked tirelessly to see that her son got home. the wall street's general counsel referred to her as an even turn to her for information. by early february, real momentum was building, and it was at that time that the german chancellor decided to act against his own self interest by releasing a russian assassin who was in german custody, which was key to securing a deal. as he told president biden in a phone call, for you, i will do this. another key moment came on july 21st when president joe biden worked the phone, speaking with

to get the deal over the finish line. it was only an hour later that he wouldn't be seeking re- election. just think about that for a moment. just an hour after securing this prisoner swap, he relinquished power himself and announced he was not running for re-election. if that doesn't tell you who joe biden is, i don't really know what does. that deal came together not because of threats or chest pounding or the phrase of an authoritarian. it came together because alliances and operation matter. that was a good day, because of the hard work of a lot of good people. coming up, one of the most influential lawyers in the past three democratic administrations. now he is starting to look at american politics a little bit differently. bob joins me after a very quick break. break. into everything? what? i don't do that. this reminds me of my bike. the wolf was about the size of my new motorcycle.

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okay. here's how the new york times describes my next guest. for decades, democrats have turned to him as their lawyer to wage battles against the opposition. they accuse the other side of criminal activity, go to court to cut off republican money flows, by the legal justification for an iffy strategy. mr. bauer was their man. he is much more than that. i've known him a long time. but now bob bauer, the democratic superlawyer who served as white house counsel for barack obama, his thinking a lot about that when at all cost you a politics, and also

what people should know in this moment of politics. in his new book, he writes this. a political commitment at its best can be joyous. and inspiration. a reason to rise in the morning with a sense of purpose. once an ugly type of partisanship gives focus, the marshall discipline believed necessary for model combat ducks the joy out of it. certain topics cannot be discussed, certain doubts cannot be expressed, because these would sow discord in the ranks when unity is deemed indispensable in vanquishing the enemy and winning becomes everything. joining me now is bob bauer. that is quite a statement, and i love that, because you have done so many political campaigns. i want to ask you about this moment we are in. i've been through a lot, not as much is you. but president biden, who you know well, made the decision he would not eke re-election. vice president harris has come in. the party seems to be coming

together. there's a lot of inspiration there in the last couple of weeks, as much as it is been full of turmoil. how has it been for you personally? >> i have a lot to think about. i was saying before the break, the last election, the last time it was unexpected was 1968. but i will say this -- president biden, the decision he made, i like to say it's not just because he was a candidate, but he made that decision as president of the united states. he decided in that capacity, he had to put governing ahead of other can iterations. i think that is inspiring. i think that makes a huge difference how people think about how their leaders make decisions. that is something i have thought about a lot and written in the book. how do people make decisions about what they do, but what they say, and about what they act. what does that mean for institutions and practices? it's all practical.

>> sometimes when you watch television shows about politics, you think it is all gross. it really isn't. it could be joyful. it can be inspirational. you talk about a politics about ethics. what do you mean by that, and why is it so damaging ? >> a politics without ethics is a politics in which your adversary is not your enemy. not to be defeated, but to be destroyed. the exaggerations of rhetorical excess that we expect from of voters. elections become elections. if you lose, the rule of law doesn't mean anything if it gets in the way of what you want to accomplish. and the public office becomes also an opportunity for private gain, not responsibility to the people who put you in that role. those are all driving ethical considerations. in the book, what i try to do is look back honestly at how we've gotten to a point where maybe we have difficulty

perceiving and people in public responsibility have a difficulty perceiving their ethical obligations when discharging them would be the most important. >> at such an important thing about politics. you also write about your father. having to testify before joseph mccarthy's house on account. you wrote in the book, my father was an immigrant who spoke with a heavy accent that stayed with him for the rest of his life. a question had been raised about whether he was truly american, whether he saw the truth of his adopted country the way real americans did. at one point, my mother picked up the phone to hear an anonymous caller asked whether her husband was a communist. and your father agreed to testify. the hearing went well. what did you ultimately learn from that, and other flashbacks in this moment to that period of time? >> certainly in the attempt in our politics of some to win elections or to govern by tweeting some segment of the population as, quote, the other.

they are not like us. in my father's case, there wasn't any more dedicated patriot i knew. he came to the united states believing the country had saved him and his family. some of his family did not survive the second world war. and decency and is politics -- rough-and-tumble, for sure. at the same time, some fundamental respect for institutions that made the difference. and how a country governed itself, and what control of agency people felt they had in their own politics. and by the way, in that book, i note that he demanded to be heard when he was smeared by mccarthy. i did not hearing, he put up a vigorous defense of his position. and the senator who stepped in to protect him from mccarthy was a hard right republican from north dakota, carl mott, who in that moment -- whatever other differences he had politically with my father --

and my father was a real democrat, ruined through, he thought it wasn't right. he thought the charges against my father were false. he wanted to have a hearing and to get out of there with his reputation intact. that was an ethical choice. that was the ethics he adopted in that moment. >> bob bauer, author of the unraveling. it is so rare when people are been through it and then at the height of things as you have been through in so many presidencies really reflect, and this is a really reflective book. thank you for writing it, take you for being here, thank you for all of your service to our country, too. great to see you. i got one more thing to tell you about before we go today. we are back after a very quick break. break. rs. don't miss out. get started today. our biggest challenge? uncertainty. hidden fees, surcharges... who knows what to expect! turn shipping to your advantage.

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>> that does it for me today. a quick reminder to grab your tickets to see me and all of my colleagues at msn be live democracy 2024. our premier fan event in brooklyn, new york, on saturday september 7th. you can scan the qr code on your screen to buy your tickets today. if the recent new cycle is any indication, will have a lot to talk about. we will be right back here tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern when we might have a running mate, i hope for kamala harris to talk all about. stay right where you are because there's much more coming up on msnbc. this