josh mankiewicz (voiceover): kristene still wonders how she escaped death and sometimes why. i do have survivor's guilt. i mean, hopefully, it'll go away in time. kristene will tell me, why was it me? why didn't she survive? and i told her, there's a reason she was still living and to be happy, and live on for mollie, because mollie didn't get that chance. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. . okay. kamala harris could announce a running mate at any moment, and debate he already agreed to.

james carville and reverend al sharpton are standing by to talk about all of it. those in washington think shapiro is the odds to get on the ticket. how do voters fear about it? we'll talk about the veep stakes. later i'll talk to michigan congresswoman elissa slotkin in one of the most closely watched races in the country. okay. the first thing we should tell you today is that we're watching and waiting for any news at all about kamala harris's running mate. the vice president has been meeting with candidates one-on-one at her home in washington this weekend, governor josh shapiro, minnesota governor tim walz, and arizona congressman mark kelly in arizona. a congressman has been seen

leaving her house and she's holding a rally with her running mate in philadelphia. we're getting very, very close to a decision here. if we hear anything at all, i promise we'll let you know as soon as we know. the fact of the matter is no matter who she chooses who she picks will grow the momentum on top of the momentum. she's been holding big energizing rallies like the one where megan thee stallion performed this weekend and coined hotties for harris. the money is continuing to pour in at an insane pace, the harris campaign said this week they raised a record-breaking $310 million in july. and in a brand-new cbs news poll out this morning, harris has a one-point edge nationally over

trump and they're tied across the collective battleground states, which is an important thing to watch. the momentum is pretty clear to anyone watching. what is also clear is that all of the attention on harris, all the momentum is driving trump kind of crazy and he is twisting himself into a pretzel as a result. i will tell you this weekend was a weird one for donald trump even by donald trump standards. at his own rally last night in atlanta, where, by the way, he had a much harder time filling the venue that harris appeared at earlier in the week, he had some very strange things to say, like when he congratulated vladimir putin, of all people, for the historic prisoner swap. he attacked georgia's very popular, very beloved republican governor brian kemp for not being sufficiently loyal to him. >> atlanta is like a killing

field, and your governor off to get off his as and do something about it. brian kemp, your governor, who i got elected, by the way s is a very kiss loyal person. kemp and raffensperger, they're doing everything possible to make 2024 difficult for republicans to win. kemp is very bad for the republican party. you can do a lot better, and you'll do a lot better with a better governor. his state has become a laughing stock. he's a bad guy doing you a dissers. he's not doing anything as governor. >> first of all, up in of that is true. beyond that, brian kemp is a widely popular republican governor in a very important state where trump was literally speaking. a guy who was reportedly open to campaigning with him this fall despite not supporting him in

the primary, but it doesn't seem like it anymore. like i said, trump is twisting himself into this very strange weird pretzel, right? earlier on the day before the congratulated and popular bashing of members in his own party, trump pulled out of a debate he had already agreed to. trump said he would not be attending the already scheduled abc news debate on september 10th. instead he proposed a debate on fox news, of course, a week earlier with a full arena audience. let's pause on that for a moment. he's saying he will not participate in the debate he already agreed to some time ago unless it turns into a maga rally with fox moderators. got it. for her part, harris responded by saying it's interesting how any time, any place becomes one specific place, one specific safe place. i'll be there on september 10th like he agreed to. i hope to see him there. guys, all of this is what it

looks like when one candidate has the momentum and the other has no idea what to do about it and it's driving him a little crazy. here's the thing. kamala harris is going to continue to own the spotlight for a little while here. her vp pick is going to be chosen any minute. a couple of weeks later there will be the democratic convention, and donald trump is going to hate every second of that. you know why? because he loves attention, and he will get more and more outrageous and unhinged as a result. we're likely to see more ugly racist attacks like the one we saw from trump this week in chicago when he questioned the vice president's racial identity. the good news is she seems ready to respond to that one too. >> it was the same old show. the divisiveness and the disrespect. and let me just say the american people deserve better.

the american people deserve better. the american people deserve a leader who tells the truth, a leader who does not respond with hostility and anger when confronted with the facts. we deserve a leader who understands that our differences do not divide us. they are an essential source of our strength. >> that's a pretty good response to all of it, i think, i mean, to the racist attacks, to the unhinged rallies, games over the debates. it's the same old stuff and america deserves better. she doesn't make it entirely about her. she makes it about the people they're both running to represent. not at a bad message, if you ask me. james carville is a longtime democratic strategist, rev right-hand al sharpton is the host of "politicsnation."

these guys are both fun to talk with. thank you both for being here now. i'm so excited about the conversation. let me talk with you. the debate over the last 24 hours are a little strange. it reminded me of when president george h.w. bush was hesitant to show up to a rally with bill clinton. you had people in a chicken suit. you saw the vice president's response. how do you think she should be handling this? first of all, i want to thank reverend al sharpton for participating in the documentary. you crushed it. i'll say he'll debate. i'm sure george mershon will

give her a delay in the execution of the sentencing so he'll show up for the debate. let's have it on the 18th in an ankle bracelet. >> i tend to agree, she should just do the fox debate. why not. reverend sharpton, what do you think? >> i totally agree with mr. carville because i think he's right. i think it also will emphasize to the public if she were to make that response that this is a race between a prosecutor and a felon. let's not take off the table. he has a sentencing date, and i think carville's right. we can ask the judge not to remapd him so he can go to the debate. or ask his parole officer if he can atend the debate. why are we taking off the table this is a convicted felon

debating a felon prosecutor fro california before she went to the senate and became vice president. >> no question. i don't think anyone should take that off the table. it's an interesting idea to do it the day of the sentencing. there's a couple of questions here. i agree. i think she's a good debater and could debate well no matter what the forum is. >> i've been dying to ask you about the vp process. james, let me start with you. you said, and i agree with this, the vp pick -- historically hasn't moved the electoral needle. people shouldn't have that expectation, i should say. sometimes one point, two points, nothing. his of theically it's been barely above, but there have been reasons people have picked their running mates, right? clinton picked gore, two young guys. it's about chemistry and

competence. let me start with you, james. who do you think politically would complement harris the best of the people you've seen out there. >> i would be totally satisfied with any of them. >> yeah. >> what we had was generational and it really made a difference. i'm sorry the j.d. advance thing has hurt trump and he knows it. he's the hit dog and he's barking. trump is one hit dog and he's barking and this vance thing is blowing up in his face. he's getting scratched like he's in a cat. >> literally a cat to unmarried cat ladies, i don't even know. do you have a view? electorally it doesn't really matter. she's obviously a strong candidate. is there anything that would complement her from what you see out there politically? >> none of these people would hurt her in the least, all right? it's just a question of what is the need that she wants to

fulfill. and she's earned the right to make that choice herself, and we, people like reverend al sharpton and myself like good dem rats are going to fall in line and salute it. we're not going to say one way or the other. i'm going to salute and say get it going. >> no question. reverend sharpton, you know her well. what do you think? what kind of a person? you don't need to name names if you don't want. but what qualities would she be looking for? >> i think she would look for someone that agrees with her on the direction of the country that is not trying to in any way not follow the policies and visions she's outlined, and i think someone that has the chemistry to work with her. a lot of this is about chemistry. in the three or four presidents they've had access to,

particularly with president obama and joe biden, i always observed the chemistry they had with each other in the room. you can have someone who's the best candidate, someone who's in line with you in terms of policy, but if the chemistry doesn't work, they're not going to be the one you want to work with in the white house. >> no question. i feel like the trump and vance chemistry would be awkward, if i were to guess. reverend sharpton, let me ask you about the events the last couple of days. i know you've spoken to this. you said people shouldn't be surprised. this is who he is. i know you've said that before. he's always said unqualified. he's thrown out a range of offensive things at her. you know trump. what do you think is driving this, and what do you think the vice president should be doing in response? >> well, i think there was some debate about whether the black

journalist should have invited him. the real question is why he accepted it. he accepted the invitation to do exactly what he did. he wanted to play this maga base that i'll go to a black city, i'll beat them in the line, i'll show them we're still in charge. he was appealing to a wide supremacist base and a very right wing base, and that's what he did from the very first question. he said, you blacks, he used the term -- didn't say blacks but inferred it. couldn't start on time. didn't get his mic straight. he didn't try to be cordial. i don't know why people thought donald trump was going to go to this forum and join handings and say we shah overcome. that is not trump. kamala harris is correct. clarify -- first of all, she's not one that belatedly talked

about blackness. i have known her for 30 years. she's always admitted her blackness and embraced it. she went to a black college, pledged a black fraternity ran as the first black d.a. in san francisco, black attorney general, black u.s. senator from the state of california, first black vice president. when did donald trump say that she went from saying she's this indian to being black? in his own fabricated mind. it's what he tried to do to barack obama. he's not a real american. he's trying to say now she's not really black. he's trying to act like they're injen was, liars, and you can't trust them. obviously it's not working for him this time. it didn't work in 2004 and 2008 when he tried it on obama when he was outside of the process. >> no question. i remember that. old dog, same old tricks in a

lot of ways. james, we talked in the past how the more people see trump's crazy, the better it is. people are trying to know harris more at the same time. that's something they're working on. there's a lot of good moments for harris coming up, right? the vp pick, the convention. how do they keep attention on trump and trump's crazy? >> he's doing it himself. i'm making a book. i'm a book maker. i'm not going to dignify it with the first letter, but i think he's deteriorating at that rate. he's getting worse. i mean, he's always been terrible. he's going to doering he can to keep himself front and center, you know? i don't think he would attack or anything like that. but there's no chance vance is not going to stop saying stupid thing. that part is coming our way. but he is deteriorating, and i don't know how much worse he's going to get between now and

election day. >> we will all be watching. we'll be talking about it. james carville, reverend al sharpton, thank you both so much. i appreciate your joining me this morning. >> thanks, al, thanks, reverend. coming up, we just got our first preview of what could be a vp matchup. josh shapiro clamped back on a weird attack from vance, but first elissa slotkin's response to donald trump's kind words to vladimir putin at a rally last night. we're back after a break. a rallt night. we're back after a break thank you. save 40% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus free home delivery on select smart beds when you add an adjustable base. shop now

it's mine.

you, ok? yeah, are you ok? we're fine. my serve. maybe we should stop. this pinewood pickleball champ stops for no one. we got our melons checked. she had a concussion. admitting i was wrong is worse than losing at pickleball. saving your brain is a definite win. don't mess with your melon. if you hit it, get it checked. so jd vance has spent the last few days doing cleanup after his childish comments regarding cat lady who hate people and don't have children. basically he doubled down claiming what vance really means is he's just pro family. >> i'm pro family. >> he's very family oriented, and he thinks family is a great

thing. >> that is what i think brings the most meaning to life is family. >> he's not against anything, but he loves family. >> so that's what they say, but as always, you really have to watch what they do because here's what senator vance has done lately. back in june he voted against a bill this would have guaranteed access to ivf and made it easier to start a family. that doesn't sound very pro family to me. so when the senate voted on thursday to extend the child tax credit for american families, vance must have been all over it, right? well, let's roll the tape of what he was up to that day. >> there we are. all right, my friends. >> all right. should we toast here? >> yes. we need to toast. >> this is the good stuff here. >> i like it. >> low caffeine, low calorie. >> and when you're out here, you need a little bit of everything. >> yes, you do. yes, you do. >> that's right. vance skipped the vote on the

child app credit with a photo op were diet mountain dew at the southern photo. joining me now is elissa slotkin, michigan representative. thanks so much for joining me. i want to talk all about your race. it's great to see you. i just played a little bit of vance who's really trying to position himself as a pro-family warrior. this is why you ran for congress to begin with, right? you talk about this all the time. obviously what he's doing is quite the contrary. what do you think of his comments in the last couple of weeks as you watch how contradictory his statements are versus his statements. >> i think he's a great cheerleader and representative of what's going on in many places across the country with these candidates. we have a pattern where people

vote a certain way, sponsor certain bills. they have a pattern of behavior that in this case, let's say, it's against ivf, and something breaks on the scene like the alabama ruling and all of a sudden no one in alabama can access ivf. the public is upset. no one is concerned. it's bad. people say wait a minute, wait a minute, we're for this, don't worry, in contrast to their record. and then when they have an opportunity to make good our their word, vote for the ivf bill that says, hey, across the country, women have access to ivf, families have access to ivf, they refuse to do it. this is why we can't be snookered by vance and other folks who are running and say one thing and their actions speak louder. >> don't be snookered. this sounds like a slotkin for senate t-shirt for michigan. i want to ask you about the

prisoner swap this week, which was such a significant moment. i want you to listen to what donald trump said in his rally last night. >> by the way, i'd like to congratulate vladimir putin for having made yet another great deal. did you see the deal we made? now, look. we want to get people in. we've got 59 hostages. i never paid anything. >> you can kind of hear a pin drop even at that rally. but just given your background and given all the issues, how much you've worked on a lot of these issues, i just wanted to get your reaction on that. >> look, it just continues, this kind of unbelievable record that at every possible moment bowing and reflecting and supporting things putin has done. i will never understand it. i remember back in 2017 the first time it happened. he's standing up there in a press conference with putin, and instead of believing our own intelligence community on what russia did during the election of 2016, he kowtowed vladimir

putin on national stage and said, i believe you and not my own national intelligence community about what you did and did not do. it's so completely outside the zone for an american president, democrat or republican. and i have to say last night when he was congratulating vladimir putin, paul whelan is a michigander. we do deals. no one likes to do them, but we do do them. it shows that when it comes to like having a president of the united states, the idea of someone who just kowtows to vladimir putin after all he's done, it's disturbing. it is disturbing. >> very. et let's talk about michigan. it's going to be -- you're running in a very important senate race. it's a must-win senate race. obviously it's an important race on the presidential level.

vice president harris and her running mate, tbd who it is, the last couple of weeks, her being at the top of the ticket, how is it impacting your race for senate. >> yeah. it's hard to overstate how it's changed the air in the room. and i knew it the day after the announcement. i was flying back to d.c. for votes in congress, and the plane was deplaning a head of us, and a bunch of university of michigan students got off, coming back home from d.c., and they all sawmy and said, congresswoman, did you see the news? this is so exciting. all of our friends are now volunteering. we want to volunteer. we're so excited. you knew from that moment that something had changed. and then i've been knocking doors in detroit, in flimt, in the west side of the state in grand rapids. it's been a complete palpable difference in energy and excitement, which can affect every race up and down the ticket.

>> no question. politics is supposed to be about good people and excitement and energy and all of it. congressman elissa slotkin, thank you so much for joining me. i really appreciate it. coming up, we still don't know who kamala harris will choose to be her vp, but governor josh shapiro's already proving he's ready to take on jd vance. we'll tell you what he said and talk with our friends when we come back. said and talk with our friends when we come back.

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so we know today is shaping up to be a crucial day in the vice president kamala harris veep stakes. we did get a nice preview of what a possible matchup would look like against josh shapiro and jd vance. listen to what he was told when he was accused of doing a bad barack obama. >> barack obama was probably our most gifted order of my time, so it's kind of a weird insult, i guess, but, look, i'll say this

about jd vance. it is real hard being honest with the american people when you're not being honest with yourself. jd vance is a total phony baloney. he is the most inorganic candidate i think i have ever seen on the national stage. he doesn't know what he believes, and that is why it is impossible for him to articulate a co-hereunto message to the american people. >> sarah longwell joins me now. she knows i'm a groupee. pub letter of the bulwark. we know the vice president will meet with the three leading candidates. "the new york times" is describing it as a final chemistry test, whatever that means. you've been pretty bullish on governor shapiro. how do you think he would boost the ticket?

>> part of it is i'm from pennsylvania. do you know how hard it is to get more than 60% of the people in pennsylvania to agree on anything? 2001 thing they all agree on is they approve of the job josh shapiro is doing. so in a state that is a tipping point state, that is an enormous windfall of electoral votes, yeah, i've always thought josh shapiro was the straightforward pick. it would be one thing if he wasn't a marlie good politician, but i think what we've seen out of him both in terms of his record -- when you do focus groups with people from pennsylvania, they will all tell you a bridge collapsed -- part of the highway, and he had it fixed in a couple of days. and they see that as good government, that he has consistently someone that runs straight down the middle of what a pennsylvania voter wants and somebody who plays really well in pennsylvania, has a good shot of playing well in places like michigan and wisconsin, which is still the most straightforward path for kamala harris.

and so that's what i think he brings to the ticket. he's a great political athlete and probably brings the most important state. so unless their chemistry test is a real flop, i'd still be bullish on him. >> to be a fly on the wall for the chemistry test. you did talk to some pennsylvania voters or you've talked about them in your podcast recently because you did do focus groups on your play. i want to focus on those and talk to you on the other side. >> the thing about shah peer yo that stands out more for me, he can't stand out on those things by himself. the senate in pennsylvania is controlled by republicans and that's attractive to me, like these things have been able to be accomplished in a bipartisan way. >> i would really not want to see his political seat tied to harris. i think josh shapiro is going to be the future vice president of the united states. >> i would vote for him because

he seems sincere and smart. i'm not sure why those two things, but i just do. that's the strong impression i got. i kind of work off of gut. >> it's always interesting to hear what voters actually hi think, which is what this is all about. we were saying earlier, you know, the qualities as you said it, he has in pennsylvania, could play well in other states as well. were there other things that came up in your discussions about him with your pennsylvania voters that were surprising to you that you think were important for people to know? >> well, i mean i think a lot of the swing voters, people who went from trump in '16 to biden in '20, a lot of them are still center, center rightish in orientation, and so i think what he brings to the ticket is people view him as a moderate, and i think for kamala harris, her biggest liability with these particular types of swing voters is the phrase san francisco progressive. i just can't tell you how deep in the sort of center right

psyche or even just in the center sort of psyche, the idea of a california progressive is to these voters. it's scary to them. i know she's doing these shifts. butting look, somebody who comes up a hot is tim walz, governor of minnesota. not in these groups, but right now i would argue it's between those two. i think progress eivs are more comfortable with him because they think the t-shirt, the hat t coaching, the hunting, they think he codes right, and that could be a little bit true, maybe in the way that fetterman can bring on a sort of different kind of swing voter, more of those obama/trump voters, working-class voters, less so than the college educated suburban types. but i would be nervous about his progressive record. unlike josh shah peer whoa who doesn't have a huge record to take apart, walz has had a lot of votes. that could be a liability when her liability is na people view

her as a san francisco progressive. i think you'd want balance on that ticket. you know, i can sort of see a case for both of them. i take shapiro. i think it's the most straightforward way. but if walz is as good a way've seen him, he could put people in play that currently aren't. >> it's so interesting. i was on the congressional campaign when he was running for congress, but people have learned about him in the last couple of weeks, kind of a reminder of the democratic big bench. he's gained a lot of fans pushes this weird label that other people have taken on, labeling vance and trump. what do you think? the vice presidential candidate is going to attack not only trump but also vance. what is the way to swing voters from this person, whoever it might be? >> yeah, well, i think this might be where i think both shapiro and walz do a good job. they both seem comfortable in

their own skin and they feel authentic. the thing this is killing jd vance, and the voters -- i have listened to tons of swing voters since he was picked, they don't like him at all. they think he's a phoney. the only thing they know about him is really how he flip-flopped on trump, but also it's vibes. voters can smell inauthenticitying and that's what jd vance wreaks of to him. in their case their ability to talk to people, articulate their professions, look comfortable in their own skin, mean what they're saying, that is the kind of thing you just sort of can't put a value on electorally until you see it put into practice, but the voters, that's what they respond to. >> turns out when you're saying what you think, it's easier than changing entirely what you think.

turns out. i really appreciate you joining me today. >> thanks for having me. a reminder, lots of very hard days can lead to one great day. some thoughts about that when we come back. day. some thoughts about that when we come back.

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most of the weight that i gained was strictly in my belly which is a sign of insulin resistance. but since golo, that weight has completely gone away, as you can tell. thanks to golo and release, i've got my life and my health back. diplomacy is always full of stops and starts. deals can fall apart because of a tiny single detail. so for the people working on

those deals through months if not years of negotiation, moments like the ones we saw this week are worth everything. late thursday night after being released from prison in russia, wall street reporter evan gershkovich and two others were greeted by friends and family by president biden as well as vice president harris as you see in the video there. as it was put, it was an example of one of the good days in diplomacy. >> i spent a lot of time with the families of evan and paul and most of the time as you can imagine, those are tough conversations, but not today. today -- excuse me -- whew. today was a very good day. >> their safe return was the result of an extraordinary feat of international diplomacy involving seven countries.

and for nearly two years this prisoner swap stood on the verge of falling apart. but through deployment circle sheer will, and leadership, it didn't. that was thanks to many people like evan gershkovich's mother. she was referred to as ella the reporter and even turned to her for information. by november, real momentum was building and it was during that time the german chancellor decided to act against his own self-interest by releasing a russian asass man who was in germany's custody which was key to securing a deal. as he told president biden in a phone call, for you, i will do this. another key moment came when president biden was speaking on the phone. it was only an hour. later that he announced he wouldn't be seeking reelection. just think about that for a moment.

just an hour. after securing this prisoner swap, one that had been in the works for years, he relinquishing his power himself and announced he was not running for reelection. if that double tell you who joe biden is, i don't really know what does. that deal came together not because of threats or chest pounding or praised authoritarianism. it came together because cooperation and alliances matter. it was a good day because of a lot of hard work from good people. coming up, bob bauer is one of the most influential lawyers. now he's starting to look at politics very differently. bob joins me after a very quick break. b joins me after a very q break. we make a change, my sites not going to go down. and just knowing that i have a platform that we can rely on, that is gold to us. start your free trial today.

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here's how "the new york times" describes my next guest. for decades democrats have turned to him as their lawyer to wage battle against the opposition, reverse a house race they seemingly lost, accuse the other side of criminal activity go, to court to cut off money flows, find the justification for an iffy strategy. mr. bauer was their man. that's quite a description. he's quite a man. i've known him for a long time. now the super lawyer who has served as counsel to barack obama and otherothers, in his n

book he writes this. a political commitment in at its best can be joyous. once a certain uglier form of partnership takes hold -- certain topics cannot be discussed, certain questions cannot be raised, certain doubts cannot be excessed because these would sow discord in the ranks when unity is deemed indispensable and vanquishing the enemy. winning is everything. joining me now is bob bauer. i love that. it's interesting. you've joined so many political campaigns. you've been through a lot. i have, too, not as much as you. president biden, who you know well, made the decision he would not seek reelection. vice president harris has quickly come in. the party seems to be coming together. there's a lot of inspiration in there in the last couple of weeks as much as it has been full of turmoil.

how has it been for you personally? >> i have a lot to still think about. >> yeah. >> i mean this is an extraordinary year. i was saying before the break, the last was 1968 and not just because of the johnson withdrawal. i will say this. president biden made the decision he made, i'd like to say not just because he was a candidate reconsidering the candidate, but he made the decision as president of the united states, and he decided in that capacity, he had to put governing ahead of other considerations. i think that's inspiring. >> incredibly. >> i think that makes a huge difference as to how leaders make decisions, and that's something i've thought about a lot, written in the book. how do people with political responsibilities make decisions of they do and what they say and how they act. it's all critical. >> it's so important. sometimes when you watch the television shows about politics, you think it's all gross. it really isn't.

it can be joyful. it can be inspirational as you say. you write politics without ethics. what do you mean by that, and why is it so damages? >> politics without ethics is a politics in which your at very sayre ask now your enemy. campaign puffery and the exaggerations and rhetorical access we expect from campaign dialogue degenerate into outright lying and manipulation of voters. elections become elections that you win if you reject and win if you lose. the rule of law doesn't mean anything if it gets in the way of what you want to accomplish. and it becomes an opportunity for private gain, not a responsibility of the people who put you in that role. in the book what i try to do is look back honestly as how we've gotten to a point where maybe we have difficulty perceiving and people with public responsibility have the

difficulty of receiving when discharging them would be the most important. >> it's such an important thing about politics. you also write about your father having to testify before joseph mccarthy's house un-american activities committee. you write in the book, my father was an imgrant that spoke with a heavy accent that stayed with him the rest of his life. the question was raised whether he was truly american, if he saw the country the way americans did. at one point my mother picked up the phone in their new york city apartment to have an anonymous caller ask if her husband was a communist. the hearing went ultimately well. what did you learn in that moment and are there flashbacks to that moment in time? >> certainly in the attempt in our politics of some to win elections or to governor by tweeting some segment of the population as, quote, the other, they're not like us, they're different. in my father's case, there wasn't any more dedicated patriot that i knew. he came to the united states

believing that country had saved him and his family, although some of his family members did not survive the second world war, and the u.s. represented for him decency in his politics. rough and tumble. yes, democratic life is rough for sure. but at the same time, some fundamental respect for institutions that made a difference in how a country governed itself, and what control, what agency people thought they had in their own politics. by the way, he -- in that book, i note that he demanded to be heard when he was smeared by mccarthy, and in that hearing, he put up a vigorous defense of his position, and the senator who stepped in to protect him from mccarthy was a hard right republican from north dakota who in that moment, whatever other differences hepolitically -- an father was a real democrat true and true -- he thought it wasn't

right. he thought the charges were false and he wanted him out there with his reputation intact. that senator who had no other points of agreement with my fathers that was the ethics he adopted in that moment. >> bob bauer, author of "the unraveling." it's so rare when people have been through what you've been through, what so many presidencies really reflect. this is a very reflective book. thank you for writing it, being here, and thank you for all of your service to this country as well. great to see you. i've got one more thing to tell you before we go today. we're back after a very quick break. e go today we're back after a very quick break.

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that does it for me today. a quick reminder to grab your tickets to see me and all of my nerdy colleagues at democracy 2024 on saturday, september 7th. you can scan the qr code to buy your tickets today. if the news cycle is any indication, we're going to have a lot to talk about, and we hope to see you here. we'll be back here tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern when we might have a running mate -- i hope so -- for kamala harris to talk all about. for now, stay right where you are because there's much more news to talk about coming up on msnbc. this is a big week for vice president kamala harris's campaign, fresh off of securing enough delegat