he is talking about we are in this dark space that america is no longer great in so many ways, right? here we have folk who are touting the power of america, the beauty of america and extension of what we heard in 2008 really. only in america am i possible. only in america can we have someone from the plains of nebraska and from oakland, california, joining together and making their way to the white house. it's an american story and affirmation of the myth around this place and i think it's refreshing, especially in light of what we have been hearing from the other side. >> yes. such a stark contrast. the new ticket heads to wisconsin and michigan later today. professor, thank you. we will talk to you in a moment on "morning joe." so stick around. thank you for getting up "way too early" for us on this jam-packed morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> pennsylvania, i know you know this. but my god, what a treasure you have in josh shapiro.

holy hell can this buy bring the fire. he can bring the fire. this is a visionary leader. also i have to tell you everybody in nerc knows when you need a bridge fixed, call that guy. and i think sometimes we forget and you see people a little one-dimensional, but seeing a guy who cares so deeply about his family, a man with compassion, vision, and i have to tell you this. i know this from experience. there is no one you would rather go to a springsteen concert in jersey with than him, than that guy. >> minnesota governor tim walz praising the guy he beat out to

become the running mate of vice president kamala harris. we will have much more from that raucous rally in philadelphia and we will dig in reporting on why governor sha picture -- shapiro was not picked for vp. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." we have the host of "way too early," jonathan lemaire. symone sanders-townsend is with us. hours after kamala harris announced tim walz as her

running mate the pair held their first joint rally before a packed crowd at temple university in philadelphia last night. thousands of supporters stood in the rain wrapped around blocks, hoping to get in to the 10,000 seat venue. according to the harris campaign, there were 14,000 attendees in the arena and overflow area. on truth social, the harris campaign mocked donald trump with a photo comparing last night's crowd with a rally trump held at the same venue in june. there you go. the difference in the crowd size which i guess is important to donald trump. in her remarks last night, vice president harris praised walz and explained why she chose him to join the ticket. governor walz then spoke about his own experience and background and they both explained what they see is at stake this november. >> to those who know him best,

to those who know him best, tim is more than a governor. to his wife gwen, he is a husband. to his kids, hope and gus, he is a dad. to his fellow veterans, he is sergeant major walz. to the people of southern minnesota for 12 years, he was congressman. to his former high school students, he was mr. walz. and to his former high school football players, he was coach.

coach. coach. and in 91 days, the nation will know coach walz by another name -- vice president of the united states! >> donald trump sees the world a little differently than us. first of all, he doesn't know the first thing about service. he doesn't have time for it because he is too busy serving himself. again and again and again, trump weakens our economy to strengthen his own hand. he mocks our laws.

he throws chaos and division, and that is to say nothing of his record as president. he froze in the face of the covid crisis. he drove our economy into the ground. and make no mistake, violent crime was up under donald trump. that is not even counting the crimes he committed. >> and so now we have some work to do. we need to move to the general election and win that. and to all of the friends listening, we also need to level set. we are the underdogs in this race. but we have the momentum and i know exactly what we are up

against. when we look at folks, we see in our fellow americans, neighbors, not enemies. not enemies. so my promise to you is this. our campaign will reach out to everyone from red states to blue states, from the heartland to the coast and rural, urban, and tribal communities. we are running a campaign on behalf of all americans and when elected, we will govern on behalf of all americans. >> so according to the campaign

as of 6:30 last night, more than $20 million has been raised in the hours after announcing governor walz as harris' running mate. it was quite an event. >> what do you think? >> i think it was a really great, strong start. there was a real contrast from the get-go. you could really see joy and exuberance versus grievance and retribution which would be the trump campaign. love versus hate, if i can. a lot of people on twitter. ted lasso was trending as it's the ted lasso campaign. it's interesting, because i think we both have expressed that josh shapiro is supremely talented and was an incredible choice as well. at the same time, i could see the strategy because he will stay in pennsylvania for the next three months and he will campaign his heart out across that state and tim walz, i think, proved himself to be

pretty talented as well on the main stage and had an authentic touch that really could breakthrough. what did you think? >> very formidable politician. there are a lot of people who just shrink on the big stage. he did not. >> right, he did not. >> he remained a big presence there. they both did. i got to say kamala harris just these events, one event after another, she has exceeded just about everybody's expectations, at least in america politics and in the media. she did it again last night, the way she carries herself, the confidence that she shows. there is just a lot of people that did not, if you look what they were saying about kamala harris the day before joe biden dropped out, most democrats were fretting that she couldn't carry

it or handle it on the big stage. i tell you what, she has transformed herself in a way that even republicans will be voting for donald trump have admitted she has. so he did very well. it was, again, folksy address. has a great biography. one that i've long wondered why democrats didn't get out front more often. a guy that was born on a farm in nebraska, a guy that was raised in a town of 400. you're talking about understanding community and served in the military like his dad and got his college get with a g.i. bill. very, very positive.

and you actually have a contrast in two campaigns here. it does remind me of reagan. ronald reagan was a dramatic break from the fdr coalition that ruled america since 1933. ronald reagan talking about he thought america's greatest days were ahead of them. on the other side, jimmy carter. ideology dent account for much that year and i think the same thing here. tim walz, not the house member, but the governor had some issues that i think republicans with going to try to exploit and we will get to those in a little bit. but, first, i was struck, mike, that you could turn down the

volume and watch that rally last night and you could turn down the volume on any trump rally and it would just be obvious. you have on one side hope, optimism and joy. you do, you do. it's evident. just the visual is evident. hope, optimism, joy. on the other side with the volume turned down, you see anger, chaos, and, of course, the promise of a retribution. in campaigns like this, it's always a surprise to people like me that sometimes ideology just doesn't matter. americans in 2008 did not care that barack obama was the third most senator in the united states senate. they cared about hope and change and it carried him across the finish line in dramatic fashion. >> you no he, joe, that is a very interesting observation that you just pointed out, the reagan campaign of 1980.

watching the coach, i'm going to call him the coach from now until election day, watching the coach yesterday and watching the vice president yesterday, it was mesmerizing in the sense i've seen a rally like that either on tv or in person. and watching it, you could just sense the power in the hall and it was the power of joy, the power of laughter, the power of hope for the future, but especially the power of those who were in the hall and those who were thinking or considering voting for this ticket, the vice president, and the coach. for those considering voting for the ticket, giving them the power to think that they are participating in something that will put a smile on your face. it's been a long time since any aspect of the american politics has put a smile on anyone's face and these two people yesterday

managed to put a smile on the nation's face. >> yeah. the contrast was so evident, front and center. walz, i think it's time to spend time on his biography. it is impressive. mike is right. the moment where the vice president referred to him as coach and they kept repeating it, coach, coach. that is going to be a thing. i think that is clear and the campaign recognizes that. walz talking about how the republicans have tried to take away abortion rights and talking about in minnesota even if you don't agree on the same thing, if you respect the privacy, he said something along the lines of mind your own damn business when it comes to whether or not the government has the ability to oversee a woman's body. that line also going to be a thing. mind your own damn business. and we saw there. now, we will get into it as the show goes on about the choice to not select governor shapiro. we are reporting from over the

weekend that walz impressed harris when he sat down, i have no further ambitions. i'm not eyeing the other job. i just want to be here and serve you as your running mate and your vice president. i'll do whatever you need me to do and say whatever you want moo he so say and go wherever you want me to go and not go to wherever you want me not to go. we see walz is going to play in the midwest. this is going to be michigan. this is going to be wisconsin. it will be western pennsylvania to be sure. he also, because of his voting record, similar to harris'. they think he is more beloved and will be better accepted by some of the more progressives and liberals and young voters who might have, fair or not, resisted the shapiro pick. give us your analysis as to why vice president harris, someone from whom you used to work, went with walz and what you saw last night. >> so i'll start with what i saw last night. the energy in the room was

electric. i also saw and was texting with folks as it was happening. i said this is a long speech and many folks texted back and said she had a lot she wanted to say tonight about governor walz. there was a lot of bio. i think importantly that the vice president was delivering that bio talking about her running mate, her pick in her own words describing, pulling out pieces of his story, whether it's when he was a coach at the high school and a student came to him saying he wanted to start a gay straight alliance and coach walz at the time knew how important it would be and he signed up to be the faculty adviser and a story that resonates with the vice president's background when she was a district attorney and

making and assure when lgbtq marriages happened in california, that is something key to her story and key to coach walz's story and i think for americans across the country. she went through and picked out things in the bio for her do deliver she thought was important that aligned with her vision but also that i think she and her team thought would speak to a wide variety of folks across the country. i think when it comes to selecting governor walz as her running mate, it was the chemistry between them is my understanding, but also that they had similar plans in terms of the role of the vice president. the vice presidency can look different, depending who the president is, right? and what a president is looking for. i think that the role the vice president harris plays and feels for now president biden is similar to that in regards the role that vice president biden feels for president obama. it's different believe from i think mike pence and donald

trump had. so governor walz had a similar vision for the vice presidency. when you were the vice president, i said this before, your name is on the door but it's never two on the door and you need to be comfortable with your name being number two on the door. when you're vice president, the president asks you to do tasks sometimes if you want and sometimes that you don't want but if the president asks you to do it, you do so with your governing partner. i just think that governor walz, the vice president felt he made sense for her and he was someone she wanted to work with and this is the first presidential level, big decision that one makes as a presidential candidate and i think with this pick, she was clear that she is in the driver's seat. >> charlie sykes, you are in the state that walz has to deliver in. wisconsin and michigan and in western pennsylvania and deliver with more moderate voters. now, there is sort of -- for

people that followed his career, there are three walz's. there is, of course, the bio walz that plays very well in those states. there is house member walz, congressman walz that had very moderate record and played very well in that state. then there is governor walz. here is my question to you. republicans have already started in on his response to the 2020 riots in minneapolis and st. paul and republicans have started in on where he is on cultural issues and being a state that would be sort of a sanctuary state for younger people who are transitioning who may have had court orders ruled against them in other states. and also his 2020 covid response.

i'm curious. i know that is was republicans are going to be running against and as i say on this show all the time, people like me think ideology rules, you know, all of these undecided and, so many times, just us. i'm curious what you think about how this pick is going to play in the states that matter most, in your community, in your state. >> well, you know, initially, i admit that i was surprised and disappointed by this choice. i thought josh shapiro was the more obvious choice. walz is much more tbd. sometimes governors have a hard time scaling up. i think it's very, very important for this ticket to appeal and reach out to the center and the moderate voters. i think more a question mark with walz. i think you're asking exactly the right question here.

how does this play? and it's funny. i wrote my substack newsletter late last night that maybe we are thinking about this all wrong and came down to exactly where you are on all of this that we are so used to thinking of this ideological terms and maybe it will be decided on personality and perception. his biography, the vibe that he gives out. he may have a very progressive governing record but he reads moderate and talks like a person than a politician which will play well in rural areas. in wisconsin, three constituencies. number one is the democratic base in milwaukee and madison, can they generate enough enthusiasm to turn out big numbers? i think the indicators they are heading in the right direction. number two is the white rural

vote that democrats have been shedding and tim walz can come in and he will speak their language. he may not have the policies, you know, that might align, but he will speak their language. then the third major constituency is the area i live in here around milwaukee which is the moderate no skeptical republicans who have been drifting away from donald trump and that is the big question mark. will the republicans be able to identify this ticket as this is a far left ticket? you may not like trump but this is way outside the norm. and i think your analogy is powerful. like 1980 and 2008 people are saying i'm not voting on going down this menu of ideological issues. i'm tired of the status quo and i'm excited. one last point about the rally

that was extraordinary. governors don't often scale up. he looked ready for the moment. that was the scene you usually see in late october, not early august. i am wondering what kinds of crowds he is going to turn out here in michigan and pennsylvania, because this enthusiasm is not speculative. it's real. it's there. i'm going to be very interested to see how it plays here. >> yeah. it's interesting. given some of his concepts on policies right now, i think the contrast is potentially perfect, joe, when women across america have lost 50 years of freedoms and rights and their health care is in jeopardy. he will make a very good argument and hearing it from him the way he talks, i think will be very impactful. >> i think -- it was one of the stronger parts of the speech last night. he had many strong parts of the speech when he started talking about the challenges he and his wife had, having their children.

it's certainly that related not just to women but also to men, to family members. so, yeah, we shall see how it goes. again, the trump campaign came out yesterday very relieved it wasn't josh shapiro and said it all day and they have been saying leading into it only person they feared was josh shapiro and josh shapiro, i would say, is a candidate to fear. this is him speaking last night before the new democratic ticket took to the stage. let's play pennsylvania governor josh shapiro. >> i want to talk about tim walz, because in a minute, he is going to come out here and i want you to give him a whole lot of love. tim walz is a great man. tim walz is an outstanding governor! tim walz is a teacher!

tim walz is a guardsman. tim walz is a great patriot! and i'll tell you what else. i'll tell you what else. tim walz is a dear friend. i lean on my family and i lean on my faith, which calls me to serve. and i am proud of my faith! now -- now hear me. i'm not here to preach to you all but i want to tell you what my faith teaches me. my faith teaches me that no one, no one is required to complete

the task, but neither are we free to refrain from it. >> how good is josh shapiro? >> so good. >> he is so good that he could be a jewish guy in a big arena and getting ready to talk about the old testament and having people shouting, preach! preach! that does not happen all the time for jewish politicians. in that setting. so, eddie, he is great. a lot of times people say this party and that party has a deep bench and you look at the bench and you can't find a guy that can shag flyballs for you without hitting him in the head and knocking him out. but in this case, they do. i want toup talk more about the joyousness of the occasion and that is a term that you don't really fix to political rallies. certainly not in this age.

but starting with josh shapiro. then going to kamala harris, then going to tim walz. this review, by none other than david brodie, christian broadcasting network, who is not -- has not been a fan of democratic tickets for a very long time. he wrote this. trump supporters may not want to hear this but kamala harris and tim walz were very good tonight in philadelphia. she came across as measured confiden and fully in control and optimistic talk of hope and change. walz showed off his persona and it felt and looked organic and the crowd was large and energetic. we will see if it holds, but this race feels different and polling suggests it is different. the trump campaign has lots of work to do ahead to be sure. i'll be honest with you.

there are times i was looking last night and it seemed to me that this, eddie, was different in a way that no presidential campaign has been different in my lifetime, say, for reagan, when i was very young, and obama in 2008. there was a movement. it seemed to be a change election and with both of those earlier campaigns for the base and for a lot of people in the middle of america, it just was joyful and exuberant and seemed to transcend politics. >> yeah. joe, i think that is absolutely right. first, we want to acknowledge the magna nimity of josh shapiro. usually we see bitterness and a kind of selfishness in the political space, at least we

have seen the last eight to ten years. he framed that. i think what is really important for us to understand this isn't 2008. this isn't 1980 although i can understand the analanalogy. we have experienced donald trump the last years. you know what else we have experienced? we have experienced mass death. we can't forget the impact of the pandemic on us. over a million of our folks are dead. people we loved. folks who are not sitting at the dinner table and folks we can't go by the house and have sunday dinner with. these folks are gone and we have been trying to move on as if that hasn't touched us in our hearts. and you combine that with the ugliness of our politics, we are not okay. we are not okay. so the fact that we saw that exuberance and joy underneath is aspiration and a kind of exhaustion, right? fragility.

we enter this where we enter into this existential space it's a sense of hopefulness tied to what we have been through. that means it's fragile and vulnerable and it will be intense and i think what we saw last night and we need to understand it for what it is. >> great point. great point. >> yeah. really great point. i will say also, i talked about the attacks. republicans already coming out on the governor's -- the covid response in 2020 on the 2020 riots, as well as transissues. donald trump does not check out well. >> i was glad that tim walz brought up covid. >> if they really believe they are going to be able to use

covid as an issue, make covid an issue in this race then you're going back to injecting bleach. lies only one person coming in from champion and only three people going in and it's going to be gone by springtime. you can go down all of those lies and go down conservative governors like ron desantis criticizing donald trump for what he did and people mad. a lot of cross currents. i would that i is going to be neutralized. the 2020 riots also. he doesn't want to talk about 2020 and the riots and he doesn't want to talk about crime because crime went up under him. most likely they can put it out there. you just have a he said/she said on those two issues. >> again, the joy and they made

it clear they want to the country in a different direction and a lot to work with on the trump side and what they showed last night. kamala harris and tim walz, is that they came to play. there were some digs in there we won't talk about but they are very clear that they are going to go after trump on everything and i love the fact that tim walz brought up covid and brought up not only mistakes that were made, but willful decisions to mislead the american people. >> so i have interviewed tim walz before. so i knew what he could do. and i feel like -- and democratic governors knew what he could do because he was the head of the democratic governors association. so when i saw he was in contention and he called me and said he was in contention. and i thought to myself, you know, this guy is really a good

orator and i thought it was a reach out to rural voters because here is a guy, you know, he ice fishes. he is a hunter. he does butter carving, which, again, is not such a popular thing in urban areas. i mean, he is a really sort of, you know, he is rural person and he went to college on the g.i. bill. he was the highest ranking enlisted man. you know, this is a person who is really part of this rural america and he really makes the case for how government programs can help people. his father died when he was young and he enlists in the army to pay for college. i think that that is a really important -- you know, we don't necessarily hear that message so much in politics today so i really do think -- i sort of thought in my head, you know, this guy, he really is kind of a rural american success story

and, remember, he was born in kansas. so he has really part of rural america. >> yeah. just one correction there. there is butter carving in urban areas. mike barnicle and i have engaged in butter carving or attempted to for years. >> oh. >> we get halfway down the sculpture and i start eating the butter and barnicle joins in. we started, but it always ends very badly. >> okay. >> one of the thing, mike. you're the only one old enough to remember this along with me. did you notice this guy -- it makes sense because he is a midwest guy -- kind of picks up the jack benny moves. >> yeah. >> you remember jack benny? >> when he is about to deliver a line. >> benny would this and then kind of grab. >> yeah. >> he has got that -- and, by the way, that is a compliment. everybody loved jack benny.

but it's an old comedian who has long passed but it is funny. his movements look like a bar from jack benny. some of the shrugs from johnny carson so there you go. >> you know, he has a sense of almost perfect comedic lining as well. the line he dropped about donald trump in his remarks yesterday and that is not even counting the crimes that he committed, referring to trump's presidency. but he has also got something else when you look at him. he is not going to make anyone afraid of him. he is the most openly friendly candidate we have seen in quite frankly. has a bit of reagan-esque openness and friendliness toward him. the most important aspect of coach walz, i would think, is this -- he knows, as does the running mate, the vice president who is at the top of the ticket, they both know that elections are about tomorrow.

elections are about the future. not yesterday. the other two guys running on the republican ticket they constantly refer to things that happened four years ago. they can't give it up. they can't stop talking about it. america wants to know where we will be four years from now. we know what happened four years ago. >> a friend texted me during the speech and said he is the ted lasso candidate. you have to believe. in a way you can see him talking in that stadium, or in a gymnasium full of kids going nuts after a football game or during a rally. he is the same guy. you get a really authentic quality from him. >> yeah. >> it was a good start. there is no question. >> you could see from ted lasso, where ted lasso said would say to the team in the locker room, and, fellows, it reminds me of the golden rule and mind your

own damn business! >> what? >> symone sanders-townsend, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," we will be joined by david plouffe who is a senior adviser to the harris campaign. first, we are joined by a reporter who has covered the trump era from the very beginning. and is out with a new in-depth look at trump's life as ex-president. you're watching "morning joe." we are back in 90 seconds. ching" we are back in 90 sendcos. ok limu! you set it, and as i spike it, i'll tell them how liberty mutual customizes car insurance, so they only pay for what they need. got it? [squawks] did you get that? only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty,♪ ♪liberty, liberty.♪ kids love summer break, but parents? well... care.com makes it easy to find background checked childcare that fits your summer schedule. from long term to short notice. give yourself a break this summer. go to care.com now. why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed?

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live shot of the capital at 6:38 eastern time. time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. ukraine has reportedly launched an incursion into russian territory. one of its largest cross-border assaults of the war. the russian defense ministry said as many as 300 ukrainian troupes supported by tanks and combat vehicles attacked the kremlin positions north of kharkiv. ukraine say targets inside russian territory but infantry raids are rare. four historically black medical schools are getting a big boost courtesy of mike

bloomberg's initiative. fans of "saturday night live" have a new role in mind for actor steve martin. they want him to play the democrat's vice presidential nominee tim walz in the uncoming season and it's confirmed that rudolph is coming back to play kamala harris generally we don't bother to read the former president donald trump's deranged posts on social media. but this one is so unstable and so unhinged, it's important that americans maybe know just somehow imbalanced the republican nominee is. so here it goes. trump writes, in full. quote. this is the most radical left duo in american history. there has never been anything like it and there never will be

again. crazy kamabla is indeed crazy. i hear is there a movement to bring back crooked joe. what about crooked joe biden unconstitutionally stolen from him by kamabla and others on the lunatic left. crash the democratic national convention. he feels he made a tragic mistake of happeneding over a coup to the people in the world he most hates. he wants it back now. >> so, charlie, campaigns are about contrasts and that is exactly what i was saying before. there are issues to go after tim

walz on if you're a conservative. yet, donald trump as the "the wall street journal" editorial says never provides that space because he is always doing things like that. but what a split screen if you are a suburban voter outside of milwaukee, outside of detroit, outside of philly, outside of atlanta. if you're the northern suburbs of atlanta and you didn't vote for trump in 2020, but you think you might in 2024, there is your split screen. look at him smiling on stage. look at the font. look at the screaming crowds. it looks like winners. i will say as a republican and you were a former republican, i was a former republican, i'm not used to democrats looking like winners. they are usually in a crouched position and they are usually scared of their own shadow with the exception being barack

obama. visuals yesterday were striking and compare that with donald trump's lonely rants on truth social, that is a striking contrast, is it not, for suburban swing voters? >> it is a striking contrast and it's also important context. i want to go back to something mike barnicle said. you look at tim walz and he is not a scary guy. i was thinking about what it was about him that was hitting me and it was like i know this guy. a lot of people like in wisconsin, they know that guy. they had that guy as their coach. they know that guy from down the street. he talks like them. i think that is going to be very, very powerful. you know, you may disagree with him on policy but he is going to explain it in terms that you understand. i'm so glad you brought up this post by donald trump. this jibbering nonsense. can we just say it? this man is not well. so while we are talking about, you know, the policies of the democratic ticket, you know, take a deep breath and recognize that the former president of the

united states is having this cognitive mental breakdown in real-time in plain view. i mean, what is that paranoia what he is going on? this new nickname which is not -- what is not a typo. kamabla? what the hell is that? what does he think he is doing? this is a guy who, you know, once was kind of the master right, i never bought it, but would come up with nicknames. he doesn't have that touch any more, right? it feels like the old guy is just, you know, reaching back and throwing spaghetti and ketchup against the wall, but i'm guessing that most people are looking at that tweet and going are they going to get this guy help? is there something going on with him? because this certainly does not sound like somebody who is doing well or is feeling confident. so whatever concerns you might

have about the democratic ticket, this is important to sort of take a deep breath and say, meanwhile, over here, the former president of the united states is losing his freaking mind. >> yeah. joining us now is the national replying correspondent at politico, marilyn mcgra -- meredith mcgraw. she coni chronicles the preside with his second impeachment to becoming the gop presidential nominee once again. thank you for coming on the show. congratulations on the book. given how charlie just framed in his last post how the former president is bhaverg, what more -- behaving, what more can you tell us about his post-presidency? >> i think the book is important how we got here and this moment

in history and where trump is. i spent time after trump left the white house covering him for politico but for this book, i talk to former aides and advisers and lawmakers about his time out of office and everything from the team around him and how they crafted his political endorsements and fund-raisers to how they prepared for this next run for the white house. and, you know, as you see him post on truth social, as you saw about this new harris/walz ticket, i think there is a lot in here that sort of underscores his mindset as we go into this 2024 election. >> so, you have spent a lot of people thinking and writing about and dwelling on donald j. trump. with regard to the truth social that joe read, i'm wondering, trump is, in a sense, because he

is a former president, isolated a lot from ordinary people, grocery shopping and things like that, ordinary people. is the isolation in donald trump part of what prevents him from talking about the future and restricts him from talking about the past which is filled with grievance, hatred, unrest, internal unrest in trump, himself? is that part of what is going on here? >> i think that is an interesting observation. when he left the white house, his isolation helped him in some ways. i think mar-a-lago and i think the people who surrounded him, i think that formed kind of a cocoon around him, and that, i think, fueled his political comeback, if you will, in some ways. but, you know, in this moment, i think he is hyperaware of the

political risks involved at this moment, and you see how tight things are in the polls. you saw how the harris/walz campaign is getting on truth social, is talking about crowd sizes, and, you know, i think there really is an understanding of the risks for him going into the election. >> how much do his legal problems and there are many factor into his decision making? >> i think it definitely played a role in his running in 2024. he had already made up his mind that he was going to run in 2024 before the raid in mar-a-lago, for example. i think it emboldened him in a lot of ways. this moment for him is about proving he can win again. i think, more than anything, that motivates him. >> the new book "trump in compile" is on sale now. author and national politico

correspondent, meredith mcgraw, thank you for coming on "morning joe." another banner day for team usa at the summer olympics. we will show you all of the golden finishes. plus, willie geist joins us live from paris. "morning joe" is coming right back. smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill.

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paris. it's been nearly two weeks. i'm not tired of looking at that city. indeed, the 12th full day of olympic competition is underway in paris after yesterday's american gold rush. cole hawker won his first olympic medal after absolutely shocking the men's 1500 meter field to win gold. sprinting by the tokyo olympic champion and the reining world champion down the final stretch to claim the thrilling title and set a new olympic record. u.s. teammate garrett nguyse sneered the bronze. gabby thomas sprinted to victory in the women's 200 meter final adding a gold to the bronze she took home from the same event in tokyo three years ago. her american teammate brittney brown claimed bronze in that race by just .02 of a second. to the mat now. 20-year-old american wrestler amite elor won with a gold medal

in the women's 68 kilogram becoming the youngest u.s. wrestler, male or female to win an olympic gold medal. the u.s. women's national soccer team won with a 1-0 win over germany. sophia smith scored in the 95th minute to break the scoreless stamina and give the u.s. the victory. the united states will play brazil for the gold on saturday. and the u.s. men's basketball team simply rolled by brazil in a 122-87 quarterfinal victory to set up another meeting with serbia, this time in the semi-finals. two more wins will net team u.s.a. its fifth consecutive gold medal in men's basketball. and take a look at the standings. the united states now leads the olympics in all medal categories. joe, we had had the lead in total medals pretty much from

day one but we have now caught and passed china for the gold. america is already great. >> america already great. >> already great. >> u.s.a. u.s.a. >> let's bring in willie geist live from paris. willie, terrible, terrible assignment. i feel so bad for you. what have you been watching. >> reporter: i know. the clock is ticking down. just a couple more days before i return home to you. i can't wait, guys. it will be amazing. last night i went to beach volleyball. incredible venue under the eiffel tower. unfortunately our team of hughes and chang lost. the men are still alive there though. couple notes on some of the highlights john just gave us. the u.s. women's national team, soccer team, again needing extra time to win 1-0 in the 95th minute on the goal by sophia smith. in the quarterfinals they won in

extra time by japan. by the skirch of their teeth and with some incredible defense and goal keeping. the goalkeeper alyssa naier there. looking for our fifth gold medal in women's soccer. have not won since london 2012. a little bit of a drought looking to beat brazil on saturday and bring back the gold medal. on the men's hoop side, as john mentioned, a blowout win. they play serbia and that means nikola ni -- jikocic. he tweeted out a photo posting his respect to lisa. he said records are meant to be broken. a cool shot of maybe the world's greatest aau team chilling with

their backpacks waiting for the bus. >> hanging out. >> there's durant and the dream team. on the track, gabby thomas winning the 200 meters pretty handily. she graduated a few years ago from harvard with a degree in neurobiology and got her masters in public health. in her free time found time to be perhaps maybe the fastest woman on earth. great story there, too, in that 1500 meter with cole hocker. a complete stunner there. this was billed between a showdown. a runner from norway and great britain. cole hocker comes from the inside. sets an olympic record, three minutes 27 seconds. cole hocker's mile time is 3:48. 3:48 is his record for the mile. it's ridiculous.

>> oh, my gosh. >> university of oregon graduate from indianapolis. he's amazing. a stat that blew me away. women's skateboarding, the park competition. here are the ages of the gold, silver and bronze medalists. 14, 15 and 16. a 14-year-old, she just turned 14 in may a couple of months ago. >> no? >> reporter: her name is aryssa true. no one over the age of 16 in that picture on the podium. high hopes for men in that event later today. one other note, i've got a piece i've been working on for nbc sports that will air on the "olympic zone." incredible story on the ioc refugee team. 37 athletes that are refugees. this is an afghan cyclist. she is the captain of the team. she competed in tokyo. she leads this team here in

paris. she fled the taliban. her crime was being a young woman who liked to ride her bike. shea would have stones thrown at her. fled afghanistan. came to france where she now lives and has been able to train and become an olympic level athlete. that refugee team is incredible. we have a story coming up on nbc, guys. another busy day here ahead in paris. >> i love it. willie geist reporting from paris. thank you very much. we look forward to your piece tonight. and at exactly the top of the hour we turn back to last night's packed rally in philadelphia where vice president kamala harris and her new running mate, governor tim walls, -- walz, kicked off their campaign. >> since the day i announced my candidacy, i set out to find a partner who can help build this brighter future.

a leader who will help unite our nation and move us forward. a fighter for the middle class. a patriot who believes as i do in the extraordinary promise of america. a promise -- a promise of freedom, opportunity and justice not just for some but for all. so, pennsylvania, i'm here today because i found such a leader. governor tim walz of the great state of minnesota!

>> some of us are old enough to remember when it was republicans who were talking about freedom. it turns out now what they meant was the government should be free to invade your doctor's office. in minnesota we respect our neighbors and their personal choices that they make. even if we wouldn't make the same choice for ourselves, there's a golden rule. mind your own damn business. when my wife and i decided to have children we spent years going through infertility treatments, and i remember praying every night for a call for good news. the pit in my stomach when the phone rang and the agony when we heard the treatments hadn't worked. it wasn't by chance that when we welcomed our daughter into the world, we named her hope.

when vice president and i talk about freedom, we mean the freedom to make your own health care decisions. >> you know, the promise of america is what makes it possible for two middle class kids, one a daughter of oakland, california who was raised by a working mother, the other, a son of the nebraska plains who grew up working on a farm. it's the promise of america because only in america, only in

america is it possible for them together to make it all the way to the white house. only in america. only in america. only in america. >> you know, conservatives even have been talking about last night how well those two did just as far as the vibrancy of it all. >> yeah. >> i quoted david brody earlier, but others have been talking about it, too. you have hope, optimism, joy versus the promise of retribution, anger, bitterness, division. there's also if you look at the schedules of these candidates, there's also action versus

the -- the active versus the inert. you have kamala harris's schedule today if you look at it, she's flying out of washington this morning. she's going to wisconsin. she's doing events there. then will be leaving wisconsin going to detroit. will be doing events there. the her schedule is busy morning, noon and night. and then here's what donald trump's schedule is. i will be interviewed tomorrow on fox and friends. much to talk about. enjoy. i'm not -- not joking. you know, when he goes out, he damages his campaign and his campaign's been very straightforward and honest. they want to hide him. they want to keep him from going out and talking because we see what happens when he went to georgia, and he basically created a political civil war inside the georgia republican

party. and devastating comments not only about the governor but the governor's wife which, again, is the last thing he needed to do. so there is -- there are going to be -- this is going to be a campaign of contrast. republicans want to make it ideological. i suspect there are going to be too many other issues that are too distracting and distractions are going to come from donald trump and j.d. vance themselves to make this a strictly ideological election. >> former president trump is going to a swing state on friday, montana. >> on friday? >> yeah. >> okay. >> just kidding. not a swing state, but he's going to montana. he has an event there. >> okay. >> so there you go. but there's a lot of time in between. just he goes to places where he's comfortable. i have to say, you mentioned he's going on "fox and friends." i was flipping around yesterday as josh shapiro was speaking and then obviously kamala harris.

literally one channel was on the right, i'll put it that way, was screaming at the top of their lungs about josh shapiro, angry, and then you flip to anybody else and they were just covering the event, which was very happy. how do you -- how do you find something wrong in the event that they had yesterday in philadelphia? >> well -- >> you can have issues with their positions, but it was a joyful, lovely event. >> very joyful. josh shapiro seemed to be just fine. let's bring in the host of the podcast on with donny deutsch. former u.s. senator claire mccaskill, chris matthews and senior political commentator jonathan martin. >> wow. >> chris matthews, you've been through a few of these. what were your thoughts about the rally last night? >> well, one was the strength of kamala harris. i mean, she came off as a

leader. she could -- she owned that whole room. her confidence level was through the roof. i said after barack obama spoke in boston back in 2004, we saw the first black president. i think anything is possible in this campaign now, and she proved it last night. picking walz was her point, her decision and she made it. this election may be short enough to beat history. we can have a woman of color as our next president because of the length of this campaign. they've got to get out there and keep the excitement going, but last night, i'll tell you, talk about jack benny this morning in the first hour, it was the timing much walz and her incredible confidence to speak to that room as if she owned it. she was the emcee of that room. powerful writing, too. great writing. like his line, which is this man, trump, doesn't know a thing about service. that's enough right there. you've got enough on trump right there. he's not here to serve this country, serve you or i.

he is not there for us, he's there for him and that's who he is and what he is. it's all transaction. but the message of hope, about naming his kid hope after having difficulty having -- his wife having that baby, it was so american, so perfect. and i think she last night, i will go back to it again, i don't know where it came from and where it's been, four weeks ago even, but we saw leadership last night. bob kasey, the former governor of pennsylvania who won his re-election by a million votes, said pennsylvania is a john wayne state, not a jane fonda state. she wasson wayne last night. she was leader. she was a leader. she was clear she was the boss. she did it in a way that wasn't instructive, as difficult, she came across as naturally the leader of that room. >> i would love to get some insight over time from anybody who is seeing a transformation

as dramatic as kamala harris's over the past four weeks. there will be some people on the right, oh, they're just saying that because they want to beat donald trump so badly. no -- >> no. >> -- i'm just saying that because even republicans, conservatives, people who are fair minded are looking and going, we never saw this coming. one of the reasons donald trump is melting down right now is because he never saw this coming. none of them ever saw this coming. it's something that's really getting to him. jonathan martin, you talked yesterday about something where you -- i guess it's because i'm an old politician. i look at balancing the ticket ideologically. kamala harris with josh shapiro who's seen as more moderate. >> right. >> you said yesterday and i certainly -- i took no umbrage at it at all. in fact, it was something that kind of getting to this warning

that sometimes, again, people like me focus too much on ideology. you said people that are focusing on walz ideology are missing the bigger point. explain. >> i think you saw precisely why she picked walz last night. it had nothing to do with his record as a governor of minnesota. the it had everything to do with her comfort level with him and his biography as a product of middle america, as somebody who served in the military, coached football and taught school. i think that that's hard for some on the far left to grasp and frankly hard for some on the far right to grasp. this was a comfort food pick. you saw how it played out. shapiro is a much more dynamic speaker and i think she was concerned about him overshadowing her. walz is a complement to her and will be an effective advocate.

you saw vividly why she made the pick she did. i wrote this morning, joe, in my column, i thought the most captivating part of the evening is the clip where you made and she was briefly off the teleprompter three times, only in america. only in america. and the crowd chanted u.s.a. as if they were in paris. that is the stuff of gop nightmares. >> exactly. >> when you have a moment and a democratic crowd chanting u.s.a. to a biracial ticket. folks, memories of 2008, that moment to me last night was the closest thing we've seen in this cycle to the '08 campaign. that to me was the best part of the night for this ticket. lastly, joe, i will just say, i think this kamala harris is a return to the kamala harris californians knew when she was the a.g. and senator. somebody who kind of lost her

mojo, lost her confidence the first couple of years in d.c. but somebody who i thought had a lot more swagger in california. this is that kamala harris. >> yeah. to j.mart's point, we reported earlier that walz told her in his interview, this is the last job i want. shapiro not saying this is the last job he'll ever want. claire, we're right to really underscore the mood last night, that feeling and this is such pent up democratic excitement when joe biden stepped aside and her choice of walz is a little bit -- there are some in the party that says, shapiro, if he delivers you pennsylvania, that's reason enough. what we saw last night is what the harris team envisioned. working together comfortably, playing off each other.

walz, happy warrior, folksy back story, delivered pretty punishing blows to trump and vance. >> reporter: yeah. this is fun. it's just that simple and it is -- she's benefitting greatly from being vastly underestimated and she is benefitting from a very short campaign. things have aligned. don't under estimate her again. she's got this. she knows what she's doing. i had a chance to visit with my friend, the vice president yesterday. she is exactly what you see. she's confident. she's determined. she knows this country is better than what donald trump represents it to be, and that is the essence of this campaign. let's compare vance and walz. i mean, you know, walz is mac and cheese and a trip to the hardware store. walz is exactly what j.d. vance

is pretending to be. he is of the heartland. he is not coastal elite. it's the first time democrats haven't had a lawyer as a vice president in a very long time. he came back from college on the g.i. bill and he stayed in his roots. he didn't go out and be created in some billionaire in silicon valley's lab, which is what j.d. -- totally funded by the silicon valley billionaire. so this debate, especially on the subject of ivf, is going to be a mic drop moment because as we all know, j.d. vance voted against protecting ivf which is how tim walz and his wife gwen had their child, hope. >> going forward, you're mr. brandon. it's bumper sticker billboard time. how about kamala and the coach? >> first of all, i love that you

call him the coach. i was a little disappointed -- no, i was very disappointed she didn't pick shapiro. i kept getting the same text message. i like that guy. like is not a very sexy word, but that's what happened to me. as i said, i went from disappointment to going, i get it. i like this. remember, mike, you are the only one who remembers this one, i like ike. one of the most famous terms of all time. so simple but this guy, you can't help but like him. the other thing that emerged yesterday, you talk about a bumper sticker. we're not going back. those are powerful words. so, you know, i love we're not going back and i love i like tim. i was one of the 71% that was not really acquainted with him and you know what, i like that guy. >> you know what, donny, i absolutely agree. one of the things that happened. the fevered cynicism versus the infectious hope of the harris

campaign. another thing that happened to me last night, maybe we're getting to a point of post labels. when you talk to everyday ordinary folk. some days they sound progressive, some days they sound libertarian, another moment they might sound conservative. if you look at me, i want you to mind your business with regards to my life but i'm also very conservative when it comes to literature. matthew arnold, t.s. elliott. i have pragmatic politics. what does it mean to get out of the labels and actually get to the actual lives of human beings and the kitchen table that they sit around? so i felt that walz and the harris campaign set the stage for us not to talk about the labels that have guided politics but actually to talk about our lives. that seems to me to be exciting. >> it was -- again, you look at the event last night and reminded of peggy noonan when

she talked about ronald regan and how upbeat he was. >> optimistic. >> writing for ronald regan she learned we cannot allow this to happen. it was never we cannot. draw a line through it and he would say we must get this done. that sort of -- just turn a phrase even in the smallest of things. and people want to be hopeful. this has been a bleak time politically for quite some time. people want to be hopeful. and i will say, chris matthews, again, i will -- just looking back as a former republican but looking back at presidential contests through my lifetime, there's so many times i would see democrats and i would just shake my head. they just -- you know, they're so defensive. they're so nervous. they're always -- democrats until barack obama always seemed

to be sort of on their back heel. other than obviously clinton at times. i will say last night it was a joyous event, just absolutely joyous event and when these harris walz fans started chanting u.s.a., u.s.a., u.s.a., i said, okay, we literally have seen sort of a changing of the guard. it is now the democrats who are optimistic, positive, patriotic, not saying that america is horrible like donald trump does every day. and you've got the republicans who are grim, talking about delays, talking about how bad things are in the united states when, in fact, by just about every objective standard they're

better. >> you know, a lot of this is based on strength of personality, and the ability to have the confidence to take a room of more than 10,000 people and speak to them calmly, not lecturing them or scolding them in any way, just talking to them. she had that last night, that strength. and if i were a republican i'd be thinking, we've got a problem here because donald trump could cut apart joe biden. like scissors. it's rock breaks scissors. she comes in like a rock and smashes the scissors. she's out of the box. she's more powerful than him right now. again, i go back to i hope this is -- it is going to be a short election, the shortest in our history. we have a team that's just taken place as of yesterday and it probably took a while to get to there, but they're there now with harris and walz. it looks to me like they can do it. they've got the strength to do it. she has to be able to eventually

point the finger at donald trump and say, you are guilty of all these crimes. you are not just a defendant, you have been found guilty by your peers twice. you are guilty and you're the bad guy. you are wrong for this country. you are wrong about covid. you are wrong about leading us for the next four years. you are the bad guy and i'm going to beat you. she has to have that strength and i saw it last night. she's strong enough to lead that room and to lead the democratic party. they're going to have to get behind her now with excitement. by the way, whoever put that crowd together last night deserves all the credit in the world. those are people who probably came in from the burbs. there are a lot of voters in that room represented. it was one hell of a crowd. i'm telling you. i'm so proud. temple university, north philly, and they filled that room. >> yeah, they sure did. >> it was -- yeah. man, they were fired up and they were ready to go.

jonathan mart, i found interesting two times, talking about optimism, being positive. there were, of course, some attacks, some jokes that went beyond normal standard fare. i thought it was fascinating that the crowd started the lock him up chant twice, once with kamala harris who stopped it, and then with tim walz who stopped it. >> yeah. >> both times i thought they had the really good political sense, let's not going there. >> we're not doing this. >> that's what donald trump did and we're not doing this. >> you saw walz waf his arms up and down to stop. he clearly smelled the danger politically in that chant getting out of control and stopped it before it engulfed the speech. look, they know they can't do the same kinds of things trump does and gets away with and

frankly, they don't want to. for me, joe, going forward the question is what's the first real ad campaign look like from this ticket? what do the speeches at this convention look like from this ticket? are they playing more to the political center of this country? keep in mind, kamala harris really except for a couple of months in the fall 2020 has not had to address a general election audience because she was a california lawmaker, then obviously ran in the primary in '19 and position 20. this is a new audience for her. i'm really curious to see how she adapts her language and how she runs and what kind of political athlete she turns out to be. she haes not spoken to this kind of crowd really in her career except for a brief period in the fall of '20. >> jonathan martin, thank you. we'll be reading your latest piece online entitled "harris chooses comfort food: will

america bite?" that's a good one. chris matthews, we'll be talking to you in the -- >> 91 days. >> my gosh, less than three months to the election. still ahead on "morning joe," former campaign manager for president obama, now the senior adviser to the harris campaign, david plouffe joins us. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. what does a robot know about love? it takes a human to translate that leap in our hearts into something we can see and hold. etsy. hey, everybody. w. kamau bell here. they say that america is the land of the free. but right now, people in the u.s. are seeing their freedoms taken away at an alarming rate. freedoms some of us take for granted. the right to vote. equal access to health care. book banning

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would you consider and would others consider being part of this short campaign to help kamala harris or whomever beat donald trump? >> well, joe, i think all of us on this panel probably spent more time on the phone in the last few days than we have in a long time so what's interesting to me, i talked to people, former colleagues of mine, even people outside of politics in the private sector. there's a lot of energy and interest in doing whatever is required. i think right now reports are that the existing campaign leadership will stay in place, which is great. i think all of us who want to see kamala harris elected president, donald trump not return to the white house, will do whatever is needed whether that's giving advice we can give or other efforts. >> that was president obama's 2008 campaign manager and white house senior adviser david

plouffe on our show, the morning after joe biden dropped out. now david has indeed joined the harris-walz campaign as senior adviser. interesting. >> your take on the pick, on last night and what you have to do over the next 91 days to win. >> joe, i think it was a great event last night. great inspired pick by kamala harris. these are two people that can speak to the middle class, can do it with joy and optimism that we can seize opportunities and tackle challenges and can campaign everywhere that they need to campaign, which is important. they'll be all over the battleground states this week making their case. by the way, interesting enough, they'll be crisscrossing the country while donald trump is in mar-a-lago stewing. not doing anything. i think he might be going to a

campaign. maybe his campaign believes he hurts them when he goes out like he did in georgia. it was a great pick. tim walz is going to be a great messenger for kamala harris which he wants to do, both in terms of his biography which you have talked about, but also his accomplishments. these are mainstream popular accomplishments, cutting taxes especially aimed at small businesses and working families. paid leave. super popular proposal. the first governor to enshrine in law after roe v. wade was overturned the right to abortion in minnesota. so i think i'm excited about this ticket. having run a presidential campaign before, you know, the vp pick -- people are going to vote on harris and trump, let's not mistake that. a v.p. can go to many places and

double your coverage. he'll be effective in western pennsylvania, western wisconsin, rural georgia, the northern part of nevada, places where he can speak about his values, his biography and what he accomplished and of course if j.d. vance decides to debate, donald trump is in the mode of ducking debates, i look forward to that. tim walz is normal, mainstream and happy. j.d. vance is weird, extreme and angry. and i really do think, listen, policy matters a great amount. what you're going to do for the country matters a great amount. also, that visual presentation i think of kamala harris and tim walz as they love america. they love people. they know our better days are ahead and we can tackle these challenges. these other two folks in trump and vance are the angriest ticket in american political history. >> what will be the strategy -- i think you're right and what we saw on stage really showed a

powerful dynamic between the two of them where one doesn't over shadow the other. one really creates the space for the other and tim walz takes a lot of space but doesn't take away from the fact that she very much was in command of the situation on stage yesterday. frames her perfectly, really. but what about the concerns this ticket is too progressive? will there be a strategy to go on fox news or to try and appeal to republicans who might be on the fence about trump? >> i think, mika, they know the voters will decide the election. you will reach them the best way to reach them. some of those folks are going to be reached exclusively through social media, younger voters through tiktok. others you might have to go through more conservatively. this is a ticket that can go anywhere. if you look at what tim walz and

kamala harris are going to offer, tax cuts for, you know, the middle class, not getting rid of the affordable care act which donald trump, basically if he's elected president, over 21 million people lose their health care with no plan to replace it. protecting social security and medicare. investing -- continuing to invest in the infrastructure in this country. you know, believing that the person who gets the most votes should win and not try and turn this into a dictatorship. protecting abortion and health care freedom for women all over this country. these are not extreme positions. they are the mainstream positions in the united states of america today. what donald trump and j.d. vance are offering are actually the extreme positions that are supported by maybe 1/3 of americans. so that's why i hope we have debates at the top of the ticket at the vice presidential level. the that will be the biggest stage to make these differences clear, but i think the campaign will take every opportunity to reach voters wherever they are.

>> david, good morning. jonathan lamere. what would you say to those democrats who said selecting governor shapiro would have simply delivered pennsylvania to the vice president's column? what are you seeing in the polls? >> well, i love josh shapiro. i've known him for over 16 years and we saw again last night the immense talent he is. he's going to display that talent all across pennsylvania on behalf of this ticket, so that's going to be, i think, super important. but, listen, at the end of the day, i think, one, kamala harris had some great candidates to choose from. we have a good bench. that was proven once again through this process. you know, what i know from presidential campaigns, even a governor as popular as josh shapiro, does not guarantee you winning their home state. that just hasn't happened. some people say it happened maybe way back in '60 with kennedy-johnson but there's some argument that wasn't true.

this came down to i think comfort level, both as a governing partner, where i think he'll be a great governing partner. another important thing about this ticket compared to trump-vance, kamala harris and tim walz have deep experience at the state and local level. vance and trump, all their government experience is only in washington. the swamp as trump likes to call it. i think at the end of the day tim walz is going to campaign. he can campaign everywhere. he will be a happy warrior. he understands the assignment as we like to say. he will be a great governing partner. she had other choices that would also have been helpful of course. this is a personal decision. having gone through this when barack obama chose boibd in 2008, we had some great choices as well. it's really just that comfort level. it's a really hard choice because of that reason. you can talk yourself into any of these people, but at the end of the day she had to make a decision, a quick decision. what we saw last night, it was

the right decision. this is a ticket that really works well together. they'll be together a lot. i think when tim walz is out on the campaign trail, doing interviews, engaging with voters, he's going to be a huge asset. unlike vance, j.d. vance is the least popular vice presidential pick this soon after selection in 100 years. that's a hard thing to do, yet he's accomplished that. at the end of the day i think tim walz will have -- last night was a great moment. hopefully he can build up the credibility with the american people and reach those voters that will decide this election. this is still going to be a very close election. this is going to come down to a small number of voters, small number of states and kamala harris and tim walz know that. they're building a campaign to accomplish that task. >> hey, david, it's donny. so happy you're aboard the campaign. good news for everybody. in the campaign as a continuum there's the negative, there's so

much to work with with trump. what we saw last night was the joy and positivity. negative advertising tends to be more effective. where do you see this continuum now that you have a happy, joyful, positive ticket. it's so easy to go negative on trump. where would you modulate that? >> listen, this has to be a contrast. basically every contest needs to. it's important. i think you want to center this choice for the american people on one of these two people's going to be president from beginning of '21 until the beginning of '25. let's talk about what that will mean for your family. so i think all of these issues, health care, the economy, tax cuts, foreign policy should have an element of contrast. i think the campaign right now is kamala harris's campaign, she's running ads on her biography, accomplishments as a prosecutor and attorney general. running contrast ads on issues like the border, on issues like the economy, who's going to

fight more for the middle class. i think a campaign has to -- this is interesting, donny. you'll appreciate this. even though she was a vice president, she wasn't deeply known by a lot of american voters. she has to reintroduce herself all the way back to her biography. being raised by a single mom, working in p mcdonald's to make ends meet. the fight she took on behalf of people versus the powerful as attorney general. you have to remind people. you have to talk about what you want to do as president and contrast that with trump. tim walz has to do that. most americans don't know him. he'll have an opportunity to fill that in but also to be the most important surrogate for that match-up of harris versus trump in terms of the contrast of what they'll do. i think the question is centered on that. which is, if donald trump's president, his policy is wrong, project 2025 which is the

blueprint, that's a disaster. he's going to be focused on revenge. kamala harris will not try to divide us every day. i think that's a great contrast so, you know, at the end of the day you kind of have to do it all. this is what makes campaigns hard. donny, you know this from the private sector. you have to do multiple things when you try to reach whether they be voters versus consumers. the campaign will be able to do that. the important thing is the enthusiasm at the grassroots level. that's harder to measure than the rally size, crowd reaction, or even the amount of money you raise. it matters a lot. so that people on the phones, on social media, at people's doors working community events in the battleground states, enthusiastic. making the case. by the way, a lot of republicans and independents, yeah, maybe i didn't support it. i never worked for one before. this is why i'm supporting kamala harris and tim walz. super, super important. i think that's a big change in

the last couple of weeks. i can't tell you how important it is to have a the human resources to win a presidential campaign in some of these tough states. i think kamala harris and tim walz will have that. >> senior adviser to the harris-walz cam pain, david plouffe, thank you for coming on this morning. thank you. >> thank you. >> claire, before we go to break, final thoughts from you. you've been right about this every step of the way, and it's been a painful process. >> it's been a very painful process. i searched to find one thing to critique about the rally. it's very hard to find anything to critique, but objectively i wish that they would have mentioned joe biden. and i think the convention will appropriately celebrate this amazing president that sits in the oval office today. i think all of us owe him an incredible debt. you want contrast. how about the difference between joe biden and donald trump?

>> right. >> joe biden making the most selfless patriotic act one could imagine versus donald trump, as charlie sykes and i think, maybe even joe scarborough has said, in the fat elvis stage of his career sitting down on a golf cart in mar-a-lago sending out these weird, weird communications that make absolutely no sense. it is -- it is really a moment that america should be proud of the leadership they elected in 2020 and very excited about the leadership we have a chance to elect in just a few months. >> i think you make a great point about joe biden. thank you so much, claire. donny, thank you as well. coming up, republicans appear to have a backup plan if november's election doesn't go their way. our next guest argues the gop won't concede, they'll just start a second contest in the

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live look at the white house. 47 past the hour. more than ten years ago the supreme court handed down a decision that would fundamentally change the voting rights act in shelby county versus holder, the high court ruled section 5 of the landmark legislation was unconstitutional. that portion of the law focused on requiring states with a history of racial discrimination in voting practices to submit any proposed changes to the federal government for approval. in the ruling chief justice john roberts argued, the protections were no longer necessary in modern-day america. today we're seeing the effect of that decision in real time. study released earlier this year shows the gap in turnout rates between white and non-white voters has grown almost twice as quickly in areas that section 5 covered compared to other parts of the country. joining us now, former editor in chief of salon, david daley.

his new book out now is entitled "antidemocratic, inside the far right's 50-year plot to control american elections." >> david, thank you so much for being here. i think in that ruling chief justice roberts said if the united states congress wanted to make any adjustments, add anything, obviously they could do that. at this point the court was passing it to congress. we've seen republicans over the past two, three years especially block the john lewis voting rights act and block other voting rights acts that would actually remedy the disparity, right? >> i think that's exactly right. what is so interesting about the chief justice's decision in the shelby county case is that he passes it back to congress, but congress just seven years earlier had in a 390 to 33 vote in the u.s. house controlled by

republicans at the time and a 98-0 vote in the u.s. senate reauthorized the voting rights act signed by president george w. bush off of a 16,000 page congressional record, 21 hearings that detailed in great specificity the continued need for preclearance, not in 1955, not in 1965, but in towns and cities and localities across the south where elections were being canceled when it looked as if black candidates might go ahead and win them. instead the chief justice effectively -- he said he would be an umpire who called balls and strikes. in this case he the chief justi said he would be an umpire that called balls and strikes, right? in this case he tossed out the rule book and ignored everything congress did seven years

earlier, and he claimed there was equal sovereignty among states, and he edited out the part he doesn't like and make it say the opposite. he would have gotten an "f" on the high school term paper for the work he did and instead the consequences were effectively gutting the most effective teas of legislation this country has ever seen. >> you told the story how he arrived at the act you just described, and 15 years later ronald reagan is elected, and then in some ways reagan says, i'll sign it but we have to get rid of section 5 or something like that, right? tell a story about a young john roberts in the moment in the reagan administration and the

long story about how we have arrived at the shelby decision and at this moment in the country around voting? >> yeah, you are right, it has been a patient game john roberts played. john roberts arrives in the reagan doj 1981, 1982, fresh off of a clerkship at the supreme court, and rehnquist has a history of suppressing votes in arizona in his youth, and john roberts is thrusts into the debate over the reauthorization of the voting rights act in 1982, and there's a case out of alabama, a very important case that a lot of people don't think about, but the supreme court in 1980 in many ways had begun chipping away at the voting rights act and the power of the reconstruction amendments and

democrats and republicans in congress were trying to fix that in the 1982 reauthorization. their opponent was 26, 27-year-old john roberts who, from his desk at the department of justice, is basically guiding the entire republican strategy inside doj to try and prevent that supreme court case from effectively being reversed in the 1982 reauthorization. there are memos and memos and drafts, and they don't win in this case, right? the voting rights act is reauthorized and yet the lesson of this is that if republicans and conservatives within the conservative legal movement want

to change the voting rights act, they are not going to be able to do so through the political process. the way to do this is not by winning 218 votes in the house or 51 in the senate. it's to capture five votes on the u.s. supreme court and they go about making that happen. >> david, given the dedication to disruption quite successful and the remnants of the old republican party in the existence of today's supreme court, do we have a lot to fear this coming fall if trump loses and takes everything to court again? >> i think we do, and i think there's a lot here that is really worry some. what keeps me up at night would be the repeat of bush versus gore in 2000, in which one or two states are super duper close, where there's on going

litigation, and on election day 180 million of us are going to vote, if this winds up before the u.s. supreme court, which all you have to do is look at the 75 cases that the rnc is involved in right now in about two dozen different states, they are very patiently laying the groundwork for the six-week period. it will be the nine members of the u.s. court that will choose this, and three of them worked on the bush versus gore case in roberts, justice barrett and

justice cavanagh. chief justice roberts in many ways has been the most effective republican politician of his generation. >> you know, there was a striking -- there was a striking scene during madeleine albright's funeral, and it was a shot, i believe, of the first row and you had bill clinton, al gore, and hillary clinton, and barack obama there. and you sat there and looked at the picture and said, you know, right there you have had the pay pull that got the most votes in every election since 1982, other than 2004, and john kerry was actually 2004, but the supreme court is dominated by the people who have been appointed by

presidents who, again, got into the white house after losing the popular vote. i understand -- i understand our system. again, you would think that a court selected the way this one has been selected, also after merrick garland was even given a hearing, and then the rules they passed that made up for him, they took away for amy coney barrett. yeah, this is -- this would not be the sort of court -- this is not conservative with a small "c," and it would overturn the woman's right to choose.

author, david daily, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. congratulations on the book. thank you, sir. >> thanks for having me. up next we will have more from last night's energetic campaign rally for vice president kamala harris introducing her running mate, minnesota governor, tim waltz. we will have more on the nominee, including the butter carving skills. he's good at it. "morning joe" is coming right back. ning joe" is coming right back td felt embarrassing. i felt like disconnecting. i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds.

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know this, but, my god, what a treasure you have in josh shapiro.

[ applause ] >> holy hell, can this guy bring the fire. can he bring the fire. he's a visionary leader. i have to tell you, everybody in america knows, when you need a bridge fixed, call that guy. i think sometimes we forget and you see people a little one-dimensional, but seeing a guy that cares so much for his family and has passion and vision, and there's nobody you would rather go to a springsteen concert in jersey with than him! >> minnesota governor, tim walz,

praising the guy he beat out for the pick for vp. we have the host of way too early, jonathan lemire, and mike barnicle, and professor at princeton, university, eddie, and co-host of msnbc's the weekend and former senior adviser and chief spokesperson to vice president kamala harris, symone sanders town sunday. and charlie sykes. just hours after kamala harris announced governor tim walz as

her running mate, thousands of supporters stood in the rain wrapped around blocks hoping to get into the 10,000 seat venue. there were 14,000 attendees in the arena. on truth social the harris campaign mocked donald trump, a difference in crowd size, which i guess is important to donald trump. in her remarks, vice president harris praised tim walz, and they both explained what they see is at stake this november. >> to those that know him best, to those that know him best, tim

is more than a governor. to his wife, gwen, he's a husband. to his kids, hope and gus, he's a dad. to his fellow veterans, he's sergeant major walz.

and in 91 days, the nation will know him by another name, vice president of the united states. >> donald trump sees the world a little differently than us. first of all, he doesn't know the first thing about service. he doesn't have time for it because he's too busy serving himself, again, and again and again. trump weakens our economy to strengthen his own hand.

he drove our economy into the ground, and make no mistake, and that's not even counting the crimes he committed. >> so now we have some work to do. we need to move to the general election and win that. and to all the friends -- listen, we are the underdogs in this race, but we have the momentum and i know exactly what we are up against. when we look at folks we see in our fellow americans neighbors,

not enemies. not enemies. so my promise to you is this, our campaign with reach out to everybody, from red states to blue states. from that the heartland to the coast, in rural urban, suburban and tribal communities. we are running a campaign on behalf of all americans, and when elected we will govern on behalf of all americans. >> according to the campaign as of 6:30 last night, more than $20 million has been raised in the hours after governor walz as

her running mate. >> what do you think? >> i think it was a really great strong start. there was a contrast from the get go. you could see joy versus grievance and republic trau pwaougs, and love versus hate, if i can. a lot of people were trending, and i think we both expressed that josh shapiro is supremely talented and was an incredible choice as well, and at the same time i can see the strategy, but the people stay in pennsylvania for the next three months and he will campaign his heart out across that state, and tim walz proved himself to be talented as well on the main stage and had an authentic touch that could break through. what do you think?

>> a formidable politician. there are a lot of people that just shrink on the big stage. he did not. he remained a big presence there. they both did. i have to say kamala harris, just in these events, one event after the other after the other, she's exceeded just about everybody's expectations, at least in american politics and in the media, and she did it again last night the way she carries herself, the confidence that she shows. there's just a lot of people that did not -- if you look at what they were saying about kamala harris the day before joe biden dropped out, most democrats were afraid she could not carry that on the big stage, and he transformed herself even in a way that republicans who

are voting for donald trump admitted she has. he did very well. very folksy address. >> real digs in there. >> yeah, real folksy address, and has a great biography, one that i long wondered why democrats didn't get out front more often, a guy that was born on a farm in nebraska, and was raised in a town of 400, and we are talking about understanding community, and served in the military, just like his dad, and got his college degree, the gi bill, and all of this very, very positive. you actually have a contrast in two campaigns here. it does remind me 1980, reagan in large part, people looked past reagan's ideology when he

was seen as more conservative than america was at that time, and reagan was a break since the fdr coalition that ruled since 1983, and ronald reagan talked about how america's greatest days were ahead of them, and on the other side, jimmy carter, and so ideology didn't count that much for that year. i think it's the same thing here. tim walz, a governor, and not a house member but a governor had issues that i think republicans will try and exploit, and we will get to those in a little bit. first, i was struck, mike, you could turn down the volume and watch that rally last night, and you can turn down the volume at

any trump rally, and the visual is evident, hope, optimism and joy. on the other side with the volume turned down, anger, chaos, and the promise of retribution. in campaigns like this, it's always surprised people like me, that sometimes ideology just doesn't matter. americans in 2008 did not care if barack obama was the most liberal senator in the senate, they cared about hope and change. >> that's an interesting observation. the reagan campaign of 1980, and watching the coach -- i will call him the coach from now until election day, and watching the coach yesterday and watching the vice president yesterday, it

was mesmerizing in the sense that it has been a while since i have seen a rally like that, either on tv or in person, and watching it you could just sense the power in the hall, and it was the power of joy, the power of laughter, the power of hope for the future, but especially the power of those who are in the hall and those who are thinking or considering voting for the ticket, the vice president and the coach, and giving them the power to think they are participating in something that will put smile on your face. it has been a long time since any aspect of american politics has put a smile on anybody's face, and these two people yesterday managed to put a smile on the nation's face. >> the contrast was so evident and front and center, and walz,

i think it's right to spend time on his biography. mike is right, the moment where the vice president referred to him as coach, and repeated, coach, coach, and that's clear that the campaign recognizes that. walz talks about how republicans try to take away abortion rights, and in minnesota, he said if you don't agree, he said something like mind your own damn business, that line will be a thing also, and we will get into it as the show goes on about the choice to not select shapiro. we have reporting from over the weekend, tim walz impressed harris where he said i am not eyeing any other job, and i am here and want to serve you as a running mate and i will say what

you want me to say and not go where you do not want, and we are told those two immediately clicked. we have seen, symone, walz is somebody that will play in the midwest, and this is going to be pennsylvania and wisconsin, and because of his voting record, similar to harris', they think he's more beloved and accepted by the young voters that might have fair or not resisted the shapiro pick. give us your analysis as to why, vice president kamala harris, for whom you used to work with with walz and not shapiro? >> i saw the energy in the room was electric, and this was a long speech, and many said he

had a lot to say, and it was important that it was the vice president delivering the bio talking about her running mate and pick in her own words pulling out pieces of the story whether it was when he was a coach at the high school, and a student came to him saying he wanted to start a gay straight alliance, and coach walz at the time knew how important it was would be and what a signal it would send if he got involved, and he signed up to be a faculty adviser, and it's is a story that resonates with the vice president while she was district attorney and ensuring that when marriages happened, lgbtq marriages happened, happened in california, and that is key to her story and key to walz story and americans across the

country, and she picked out things in the bio that she thought was important that aligned with her vision and also what her and the team thought would speak to a wide variety across the country, and picking him, it was the chemistry between them was my understanding and they sad similar terms in the role of the vice president harris, and that can look different on what a president is looking for. i think the role vice president played for and fills for now president biden is similar to that in regards to the role that president biden played for president obama, and it's different than what mike pence and trump had, and governor walz

had -- the president will ask you to do tasks, sometimes you want and sometimes you don't want but if the president asks you to do it, you serve at the pleasure of the president, and i think he made sense for her and he was somebody she wanted to work with, and it's the first big decision that one makes as a presidential candidate, and with this pick, she made clear she's in the driver's seat. >> charlie, you are in a stat that walz can deliver with. there are three waveform --

walz, and there's house member walz, and congress member walz that played very well in that state, and then governor walz. republicans already started in on his response to the 2020 rites in minneapolis and st. paul, and republicans already started in on where he is on cultural issues, on being a trans -- being a state that would be a sanctuary state for younger people who are transitioning that may have had court orders ruled against them in other states, and also his 2020 covid response. i am curious, and i know that's what republicans are going to be running against, and as i say on the show all the time, people like me think ideology rules,

you know, all of these undecideds, and what role do you think this pick will play in what matters most, in your community and in your state? >> i thought josh shapiro was the more obvious choice, and sometimes governors have a hard time scaling up and i think it's very, very important for this ticket to appeal and reach out to the center and moderate voters. i thought they would have done that with shapiro. i think you are asking exactly the right question here, you know, how does this play? it's funny. i wrote my news letter late last night, and maybe we are thinking about this all wrong, and i came

down about this where we are used to thinking about it in ideological terms, and it could be decided on personality and perception. his biography, the vibe that he gives out, he may have a very progressive governing record but he reads moderate and talks like a regular person rather than a politician, which will play well in rural areas. >> yeah. >> right. >> and there are three constituencies. number one is the democratic base in milwaukee and madison. can they generate enough enthusiasm to turn out big numbers? i think the indicators are right now they are headed in the right direction. number two is the white rural vote that democrats had been shedding. tim walz will come in and speak their language. he may not have the policies that may align, but he will

speak their language. and the third constituency, the area i live, around milwaukee, and that's the moderate skeptical republicans who are drifting away from donald trump, and that's the big question mark, will the republicans be able to identify this ticket as a far-left ticket. you may not like trump but this is way outside the normal, or will this be -- i think your analogy is powerful. like 1980 and 2008, where people were saying i am not voting on going down the menu of ideological issues, i just like these guys and i am tired of the status quo, and i want something else and i am excited. one last thing about the rally which was truly extraordinaire yo, and often times governors don't scale up, and he looked ready for the moment, and that's usually what you see in october and not early august.

i am wondering what kinds of crowds he will turn out here in michigan and pennsylvania? this enthusiasm is not speculative, but it's real and it's there. >> we will show you how the crowd reacted to shapiro's energetic speech. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." (♪♪) we need a miracle. miracle every thursday starting at 2:45. i know. i love you. find childcare that fits your schedule at care.com why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. find childcare that fits your schedule during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number® limited edition smart bed.

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go to care.com now. i want to talk about tim walz, and in a minute he will come out here and i want you to give him a whole lot of love. tim walz is a great man. tim walz is an outstanding governor. tim walz is a teacher. tim walz is a guardsman. tim walz is a great patriot! he is. and i will tell you what else. i will tell you what else. tim walz is a dear friend. i lean on my family and i lean on my faith, which calls me to

serve. and i am proud of my faith. now hear me. i am not here to preach at you all, but i want to tell you what my faith teaches me. my faith teaches me that nobody, nobody is required to complete the task, but neither are we free to refrain from it. >> how good is josh shapiro? >> so good. >> he's so good that he can be a jewish guy in a big arena having people shout, preach, preach. that does not happen all the time for jewish politicians in

that setting. >> eddie, you look at the bench and you can't find a guy that could shag fly balls for you without hitting them in the head and knocking them out, but in this case they do. i want to talk about the joyousness of the occasion, and that's a term you don't normally affix to political rallies, certainly not in this age. starting with shapiro and then going to kamala harris and then to tim walz. a review by david brody, from the christian network, he wrote this, trump supporters may not want to hear this, but kamala harris and tim walz were very good tonight. it was an optimistic speech full

of hope and change, and meanwhile walz -- we will see if it holes and we will see if it's different. the trump campaign has lots of work to do ahead, to be sure. i will be honest with you. there are times i was looking last night and it seemed to me that this was different in a way that no presidential campaign has been different in my lifetime, say, for reagan, when i was very young, and obama in 2008. there was a movement. it seemed to be a change election, and with both of those earlier campaigns for the base and for a lot of people in the middle of america, it just was

joyful, it was exuberant and seemed to transcend politics. >> i think that's right. we want to acknowledge the magtive tee of josh shapiro. sometimes we see bitterness and a kind of selfishness in the political space and that's what we have seen in the last eight to ten years. what is important for us to understand, this is not 2008, and this is not 1980, although i can understand the analogy. what is different? we experienced donald trump over the last couple of years, and we experienced the vitriol of politics. we experienced mass death. we can't forget the impact of the pandemic on us. over a million folks are dead, and people we loved, and we can't go by the house and have

sunday dinner with them, and these folks are gone and we are trying to move on as if that has not touched us in our hearts, and we are not okay. the fact that we saw that exsaoub runs, and we are clinging to this, and it's a space, right, that is a sense of hope that is tied to what we have been through. that means it's fragile, vulnerable, but it's going to be intense. >> yeah. >> that's what i think we saw last night and we need to understand it for what it actually is. >> great point. great point. >> yeah, really great point. >> i will say also, republicans, talked about the attacks, and republicans already coming out on the governor's covid response in 2020 on the 2020 riots as

well as trans issues. the first two, donald trump does not -- >> i was really glad that tim walz brought up covid. >> well, if they really believe they will be able to make covid an issue in the race, then you will go back to injecting bleach, the lie -- >> not telling the american people about it. >> the lies about it's only one person or three people coming in from china and it will be gone by springtime, and you can go down republican governors like ron desantis, and the anti-vaxxers that voted for donald trump, mad at the

vaccines. i would say that would be neutralized. also the 2020 riots. he doesn't want to talk about crime, and that's another one that will most likely -- they can put it out there. you will just have a he said/she said on those issues. >> yeah, and the exuberance you saw in the crowded auditorium, 12 to 14,000 people in philadelphia, and they want to take the country in a different direction and they have a lot to work with. kamala harris and tim walz, they came to play. there were digs in there that we won't talk about, but they are very clear that they are going to go after trump on everything, and i love the fact that tim walz brought up covid and brought up not only the mistakes

that were made but willful decisions to mislead the american people. >> so i have interviewed tim walz before, so i knew what he could do, and i feel like he was -- and democratic governors knew what he could do because he was the head of the democratic governors' association, and he called me and said he was in contention, and i thought to myself, you know, this guy is really a good or atore, and here's a guy, you know, he ice fishes, and he's a hunter, and he does butter carving, which, again, is not such a popular thing in urban areas. he's really the sort of -- he's rural, a rural person, and he went to college on the gi bill and this is a person that is really part of this rural

america, and he really makes the case for how government programs can help people. you know, his father died when he was young and he insisted in the army to pay for college. i think that is a really important thing, and we don't necessarily hear that message in politics today, so i do think -- i sort of thought in my head, you know, this guy, he is -- he really is kind of a rural american success story. remember, he was born in kansas, so he has -- he has really part of rural america. coming up, a look at other stories making headlines this morning, including a game changing investment for doctors in historically black colleges. and we will tell you who some fans think is next to play the number two. that's next on "morning joe."

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headlines this morning. ukraine reportedly launched an incursion into russian territory, one of the largest cross-border assaults of the war. the russian defense ministry said as many as 300 ukrainian troops supported by tanks and combat vehicles attacked the kremlin's position north of kharkiv. infantry raids are rare. four historically black schools are getting a boost, and there's a donation aimed at

addressing systemic inequity in health care. fans of "saturday night live" have a new role in mind for actor, steve martin. it's already confirmed that rudolph is returning to portray kamala harris, and she won an emmy for that role in 2020. coming up, donald trump was unraveling online. charlie sykes weighs in on what could be some of the ex-president's unhinged ranting, and that's next on "morning joe." can you do this?

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generally we don't bother to read the former president trump's deranged post on social media, but this is so unstable and so unhinged, it's important to let americans know how unbalanced the republican nominee is. he writes, this is the most radical duo in american history. there never has been anything like it and there never will be again. crazy kamabla is indeed, crazy. i hear there's a movement to bring back crooked joe, and his presidency was unconstitutional stolen from him, and others on

the lunatic left, and crashes the democratic national convention and tries to take back the nomination beginning with challenging me to the debate that he feels he made a tragic mistake, a coup to the people in the world he most hates. >> so charlie, campaigns are about contrast. that is what i was saying before. there are issues to go after tim walz on if you are a conservative, and yet donald trump, he never provides that space because he's always doing things like that. what a split screen if you are a suburban voter outside of milwaukee, outside of detroit, outside of philly, outside of atlanta. if you are in the northern

suburbs of atlanta, and you didn't vote for trump in 2020 but think you might in 2024, there's your split screen. look at the crowd, and it looks like winners, and you were a former republican and i was a former republican, and i am not used to dems looking like winners, and they are usually in a crouched positioning and usually scared of their own shadow with the exception being barack obama, and with trump's rant on truth social, that's a striking contrast is it not for suburban voters? >> it is the a striking contrast. you look at tim walz, and he's not a scary guy. i was thinking about what it was about him that was hitting me, and i was, like, i know this guy. a lot of people in a place like

wisconsin, they know that guy and had that guy as their coach, and i think that's going to be very, very powerful. you may disagree with his policy, but he will explain it in terms you understand. i am glad you brought up this post by donald trump, this jibbering nonsense. can we just say it, this man is not well. so while we are talking about the policies of the democratic ticket, you know, take a deep breath and recognize that the former president of the united states is having a cognitive mental breakdown in real time, in plain view. what is that paranoia -- and the new nickname, and -- but i am sorry, joe and mika, what is

that? what the hell is he doing? he would come up with nicknames. he doesn't have that touch anymore, right? feels like the old guy is just reaching back and throwing spaghetti and ketchup against the wall, and most people are looking at that tweet and going, are they going to get this guy help? something going on with him? it doesn't sound like somebody who is doing well or feeling confident. whatever concerns you have about the democratic ticket, this is important to take a breath and say, meanwhile, over here, the former president of the united states is losing his freaking mind. >> speak of the ex-president, we will look at a new book at trump's life as ex-president. "morning joe" is back in a moment. oe" is back in a moment

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. joining us now, the national political correspondent at "politico" meredith mcgraw. her new book out now is entitled "trump in exile," and in it she conocos the former president's political comeback from being a pariah after the january 6th insurrection and his second impeachment to becoming the gop presidential nominee once again. thank you for coming on the show. congratulations on the book. and given sort of how it was framed in his last post how the former president is behaving, what more can you tell us about his post-presidency? >> well, i really think this book is so essential to understanding how he got here and this moment in history, and, you know, where trump is, i spent time after trump left the

white house covering him for "politico," but for this book i talked to former aides, advisers, lawmakers about his time out of office and everything from the team around him and how they crafted his political endorsements and fund raiser s to how they prepared for this next run for the white house. and, you know, as you see him post on truth social, as you saw about this new harris/walz ticket, i think there's a lot in here that sort of underscores his mind-set as we go into this 2024 election. >> so, meredith, you've obviously spent a lot of time thinking about, writing about, drilling on donald trump, with regard to the truth social, i'm wondering, trump is, in a sense because he's a firmer president, isolated a lot from ordinary

people, grocery shopping, thing like that, ordinary people. is the isolation part of donald trump part of what prevents him from talking about the future and restricts him to talking about the past, which is filled with grievance, hatred, unrest, internal unrest in trump himself? is that part of what's going on here? >> i think that's an interesting observation. you know, when he left the white house, his isolation helped him in some ways. i think mar-a-lago and the people who surrounded him, formed kind of a cocoon around him, and that, i think, fuels his political comeback in a way, if you will, in some ways, but in this moment, i think he is hyperaware of the political risks involved at this moment, and you see how tight things are

in the polls. you saw how the harris/walz campaign is getting on truth social, he's talking about crowd sizes, and, you know, he -- i think there really is an understanding of the risks for him. coming up, a look at tim walz's record as governor with another democrat who's running, representative maura haley weighs in on the new presidential ticket when "morning joe" comes right back. n "morning joe" comes right back thank you. during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number® limited edition smart bed. shop now at a sleep number store near you. hi, my name is damian clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all

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feel like you come to a maga event and there is no seriousness. it's not about people fixing american. it's like people at a carnival. is that a fair critique? >> no. it's genuinely people who care about the country. >> they don't want to talk about politics. they don't want to talk about -- >> yeah. >> it's not a friggin' circus. >> yeah. >> it's a ridiculous thing. you do know you're wearing that hate right now? >> yeah. good morning on "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. kamala harris and tim walz are hitting the campaign trail in key battleground states after opening their very first joint rally in pennsylvania last night. correspondent peter alexander has the details. >> reporter: this morning the new democratic ticket is off and

running. vice president kamala harris and her new running mate minnesota governor tim walz setting out on a swing state tour. >> are you ready? >> i'm ready. >> reporter: after a rally in battleground pennsylvania. >> we are the underdogs in this race, but we have the momentum. >> reporter: why walz? sources tell nbc news the two had strong chemistry when they met last sunday, the video with this on monday. >> would you be my running mate and get this thing on the road? >> i would be honored to. >> a former school teacher and football coach, served more than two decades in the national guard before entering the world of politics, winning a trump district before coming the state's governor. >> i'm telling you, tim walz will be ready on day one. >> reporter: walz theying harris. >> thank you, madam vice president for the trust you put in me, but maybe more so, thank

you for bringing back the joy. >> reporter: delivering a series of punch lines while tearing into former president trump. >> make no mistake, violent crime was up under donald trump. that's not even counting the crimes he committed. >> reporter: and mocking jd vance as an elitist. >> jd studied at yale, had his career funded by silicon valley billionaires, and then wrote a best seller trashing that community. come on. >> reporter: walz also repeated the popular awe tack line that first got him attention among the democrats. >> these guys are creepy and, yes, weird as hell. >> reporter: according to a poll, 71% of the americans don't know whether they have an opinion on walz. the campaign seizing on his

governorship including his policies on abortion and transgender rights and his response during protests following the death of george floid in 2020. vance saying he will unleash hell on earth. >> the fact that kamala harris selected him, i think, shows really, really poor judgment. >> nbc's peter alexander with that report. joining us now, we have nbc news national affairs partner and columnist at puck, john heilemann. peter baker. cofounder and host of "all in together" and host of "majority rules" on twoway lauren leader, and publisher of the newsletter "the inc." jonathan lemire and

garrett haake. i want to get your opinion on it. >> it could not have gone better. i think as you guys have also talked about once the choice was clear that it was down to these two candidates, tim walz and josh shapiro, there are two different theories of how you're going to win this race. one of them is kind of the theory of party unity, enthusiasm, vibes, momentum. there's this other theory which is kind of the theory of the professional political clash who i would say not unanimously, but a lot of people have looked at shapiro and said pennsylvania is a very important state, even if he gives you half a point, that could be the difference between winning and losing. those are important theories. the theory that this party has been through hell to now we're back together, i need to have the party stay unified,

enthusiastic, have momentum, not have issues at the convention in chicago, we need to ride the wave. i think this and chemical is what drove harris to go with tim walz. that's a reasonable choice to have made. i think a lot of people who might have been doubters, who preferred josh shapiro, found themselves surprised last night how tim walz, a person who, if people are being honest, most people in the political class did not know who he was two or three weeks ago, who ran an extraordinary campaign effect iffively to put himself in contention of this, walked out for the first time he's ever been on a national stage and hit a home run last night. i think there are a lot of of people who looked at this pick. they're not against it. they would have preferred shapiro, but they looked at how it played out and said, all right, i'm good with that. i think that was the feeling

among a lot of people in the political world and for all the reasons david plouffe said earlier on the show, it's an incredible pick and it will be great to see tim walz and jd vance debate each other. >> it's remarkable how much it's changed so quickly. it's only been 2 1/2 weeks since president biden bowed out. walz is still campaigning with harris. it will be targeted when he does. but just the evolution, the ram pant evolution. talk about how this race has changed and how it seems pretty clear donald trump does not know how to respond. >> i think the clip of tim walz saying thank you for bringing back the joy, this captures it,

right? this was a happen yar warriors event last night. it reminds me of the clinton/gore '92 campaign, that politics can be fun, they can smile, they can actually enjoy themselves. you're right. i've been to many biden rallies. i don't remember a single one that came anywhere close, not just in terms of size, but the energy and electricity. people like joe biden. they appreciate him. they were willing to give him a polite applause. there was never this kind of sizzling fire for him, and i think chuck todd said it last night or yesterday, it's like somebody's giving starving people food. they're so excited to have kamala harris out there and now tim walz who brings energy and enthusiasm.

people think trump is popular. he's not popular. now the democrats have two candidates in harris and walz who are ready to take the battle to trump. >> you know, lauren, i know what we're going to hear from republicans is that, oh, they're just talking about how jovial he is, how authentic he is, or how he performs well on stage. look at these policies. this is a really left ticket, this ticket is too lib rah, blah, blah, blah. i hear it, and his policies and beliefs would match that reaction. the question is does it matter when the alternative is a candidate who gets on stage and is also very performative. you would probably be safe to say that donald trump was the very first politician who got on stage and made it like a comedy show almost, comedy hour.

and on top of it, lie after lie, disinformation, on top of disinformation, is what pervades his rally. tim walz believes what he believes and he's a nice guy and his performance is authentic. that's the difference here. maybe that's all that matters. >> well, i think there are some major policy issues. we're hearing it already from folks a lot on the right. they think this is a gift to trump because they feel confident that they can paint tim walz as so far left and out of the mainstream of america. except the topics they think are so out of touch with america, i don't think they're right about. they will avoid passing paid family leave, the child care tax credit, which those in congress juxtaposed when congress tries to reauthorize it. yes, he does oppose trans

rights people. the list goes on. they're calling walz super far left because he opposes climate initiatives. these are things that are widely accepted in the democratic part and among independents. if you compare that to trump on abortion and vance saying we should track women who seek medical care, to the kind of extreme stuck in project 2025, i think the harris/walz campaign would bring it. i think they would welcome it because they feel confident they can win it. >> and then this morning all over america people will go goip grocery shopping. in both place, grocery stores, gas stations, they're going to bump into a tim walz, a

neighbor. he uses that a lot, my neighbors. talk about what you perceive to be the importance of tim walz, coach walls on this ticket. >> yeah. i think it's a very significant moment. i think john heilemann is right, that a lot of us in the journalist or pundit class are maybe a little bit slow on the uptick of what this is because we're used to an order like this. we're used to a pre-fascist republican party. we're in a moment where the country is in an authoritarian movement, fascist movement. they make people feel things, right? they make people emotional. they get the blood up.

democrats for too long have been running against authoritarianism with wonkiness and bridging and authoritarian things without getting the blood up. i think this is a choice. this is a campaign that understands the importance of vibes. it's about competing against authoritarianism when they're very directly targeting the limbic system of the voters and it's a matter of joining people's hearts, not just the brain. obviously there were a bunch of good notes. the significance is he's an older white man in a moment when the far right is trying to convince people that the future is treacherous for them, trying

to convince mane. here's an older white man, a coach, a soldier who is very hard to dismiss as some kind of -- who is telling older folks and white people you do not need to be afraid of the future. there is joy in the future. there's joy in having your boss be a black woman. there is joy in what is coming. i think it's going to be a joy. it's going to be okay. there's going to be a joy on this side when it comes to the democracy of this country. >> it's so funny. as you were talking about the vibe, donald trump always looks at the people he chooses to be out of central casting, whether they have the look. i don't know what happened with jd vance hob isly, but usually he makes the choice in terms of

central casting. and you open your phone, and you'll see tim walz on some sort of carnival ride where the contact contact rah's. there's donald trump in dark mar-a-lago with some very different kamd of person. i'll be careful with what i say. you see someone around kids and butter carving competitions, and you look at the resume, and it is impressive. in a way if you're going to compete -- go ahead. >> i think you're exactly right, and i think there's a deeper psychological difference to everything you said, which is we're living in a moment, and i'm quoting a twitter user i just saw named riley. tim walz is the dad and grandpa

that rush and rupert stole from us. he's the family we lost when their personalities changed seemingly overfight. if the right-winged fund machine never existed, we would have millions like him. they've broken so much family. i can't tell you how much that resonates with what i saw. millions and millions of people feel like they have living dead family members who have been brainwashed into i had tread and extremism and here's a guy who shows another way, the butter curving. i said, look, everyone in america has just got a new dad and he would like you to have an orange. this is someone who shows a different model of masculinity and a joyous sense of the future, and i think it's personally resonant for people who have struggled as i know so many who have with part-time

lost to the tonal of extreme mag ism. >> speak as someone who's only two years younger than tim walz and they're basically the same age, let's lay off the grandpa stuff, okay? he's -- he's an older white man, but not an old white man, let's be clear. i'll also say for some of us -- for some of us hearing a guy quoting warren zee bon in his speech and knowing he's a bruce spring steen fan and taylor swift fan and named a highway prince in purple ink, that's enough for me. i'm all in with that guy. for all of those reasons. i think where they go, mika, is

it gets into this question, and anand is 1000% right. very hard to tar -- it's hard to tar him. you pointed out before, his positions are progressive. one of the reasons he's gotten so much support and why the party has coalesced around him so quickly and like they did to harris h's acceptable to all wings of the party in the sense that his policy positions are progressive, but he's not the squad. no one lookings at tim walz -- again all respect to aoc and cori bush and things like that, he does not read as an eliist or far left. peter baker, i don't know what he does in terms of votes.

i think have p overstated what he will deliver to her. he is someone who can take the message of the harris campaign into key parts of particularly rural america in those battleground states, so i guess the question i have for you is this. the resubscription to say tim walz will unleash hell. that is what they wrote in their first reaction to this. is the -- are they as befuddled by tim walz as they have been by kamala harris in terms of ho to rue respond. it's so tone-deaf when you look at him and say, that doesn't make any sense. >> yeah. you know, heaven or hell, it's going to be a heck of a race. this next week is going to be political. we played the poll number earlier how nobody knows who tim walz is. this is an empty vessel to be

filled, and the democrats are going to fill it. theory assuring midwestern soldier, the guy who's not scary. you're not going to be scared by tim walz. the republicans are going to try to scare people and say look how badly he ruled in terms of george floyd. we'll see how effective either size is in a week. it will be quick to see if they can find or identify him as something scary. actually, you know, tripped up on him is the childless cat lady. you're explaining him than amplifying your message. one thing you don't want to do is pick a running mate you have to explain or defend out of the days. i thin.

they don't see on issues that they would have to explain the way jd vance has to explain them. we'll see how well they stick. that's what they're looking for. >> yeah, i think it's good to be concerned, ready, strategize, but at the same time, the republican ticket, we've got a convict, a convicted felon, we have jd vance in all his glory. i mean the bar is very low. they don't play by the rules, which makes them dangerous. but at the same time, tim walz is a joyful warrior who's gotten the endorsement of aoc and joe manchin. so much a spread of support that shows that hi can bring people

together. so we shawl see. 91 days to go. if you can imagine, this will be a race to the finish. pete baker, thank you very much. by the way, we go to wall street. let's go to andrew ross sorkin, a columnist for "the new york times." what's going on? >> look, i think you're seeing that -- that down draft is pulling back up. it was overextended in terms of how bad things turned out to be on mondaying and i thinks are not that bad and the fed is possibly going to act in september, not cutting by just 25 basis points but 50 basis points. that's giving people some hope

that things aren't going to slow down. perhaps we're going to have a soft landing and not move into a reskigs. >> 24 hours ago you were o the show and there becausele pit of not a great reaction from the business community in the pickup of 2i78 palz. 24 later, how is it settle? >> i've got a lot for you. there were two texts that came in in big tech billionaires. i would say after we spoke on the air, i got a number of calls from people that are close to the harris campaign in the business community who rim, it should. be soon as a sim nall if you will of move mored to the hearst. we thought lina khan might be

part of the next administration. for the piz community, that's something -- that's a message they want to hear. this is one of the text messages i got. you know this guy very well. this is a drem crate image beige. the role of the vr pre-election is not to impose their views on pill. the job for tim walz is to campaign. who would be to be p. if he can be folksy, getting hit happened into trump. walz knows the assignment. the assignment is to beat trump. there's another view. i'm so done with the democrats and the insidious anti-semitism

of the large progressive wing. i think those two text messages can sum up the vast expanse of nfrlgs that came in yesterday this pick. >> thank you very much for your insight this morning. coming up, look at a key primary race in missouri and the defeat of a so-called mef gip. she wanted to share her thoughts on "morning joe." that's straight ahead. thought on "morning joe. that's straight ahead. riasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill.

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all or part of it to coventry. even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. hey, minnesota, i'm out here, tim walz, with my daughter. every year we pick something old, something new. i pick an old ride, and hope gets to do something new. >> we're going to do the

slingshot. >> then we're going to get food. some grub? turkey? turkey's meet. >> we'll do some of those things and report back. >> oh, my -- >> whoo. yes. that's governor tim walz and that's what i was talking about when i opened my phone. that's what popped up. enjoying the minnesota state fair last year with his daughter hope. joining us now, governor maura healey of massachusetts. maura, it's great to have you on the show. you know tim. i also can predict you were pretty happy about this choice. >> i'm thrilled. you see the smile on my face.

just watching that clip, that's tim. he's the real deal, you know? he's the coach you want to play for. he's a colleague that you want to serve with. he's the guy you want in the bunker. i mean, he's just a really special person. what you saw last night is who governor walz is. and it's why he's such a great pick. >> yeah. and, lauren, later and you can see maura and i planned our outfits. i'm not shoo what happened, but you have the next question. >> i'll read the memo later. we were talking in the last segment about the way in which folks on the right and the trump campaign are hoping to paint governor walz as extreme left. what's the best of how to speak against that and how the

policies line up with what you've done in your state and elsewhere around the country. what's your response to those attacks about the left and being out of touch? >> they are out of touch. tim walz cut taxes. that's something myself and other governor have done. he made sure people have health insurance and fought for family businesses and protecting abortion rights. at the end of the day, they're mainstream values, and they poll really well with democrats and republicans. tim walz is right on target. i think you see the trump/advance team lashing out, grabbing at anything, and making just outrage and extreme arguments. they really lack total credibility. i go back to tim as a football coach. i bet if you polled the players who he coached, i don't know if they're democrat, republican, independent, i don't know what

they are, but i know they're voting for tim walz, and tim walz was the second dem graduate in 100 years to win his district and win it five times over including during the tea party revolution. that speaks to how he delivers on the ground and in terms of governor. that's a winning formula no matter what trump and vance want to say. >> governor in late 2015, donald trump descended the escalaor at trump tower and thus began an era of fear in the politics. he injected a dose of fear into the electorate that spread rapidly and still exists. let's talk about coach walz and the antidote to fear and what it means to voters, to average citizens, to have someone running for vice president, who

looks like someone behind them in line at the grocery store or the gas station. talk about that. >> one thing, he coached linebackers. he was a defensive coordinator. he was in the trenches. there's so much about his bio. his life has been public service, enlisting at age 17, grau up on a farm. i grew up on a farm in new hampshire myself. his resume resonates with a lot of people and instilling home in people. if you're a coach -- by the way, he took on a team 0-27. in three years they win the state championship. right? you get there by being a coach who knows how to sike people up, knows how to support them, sure, you've got to push people, but also giving them a hope and belief in themselves that they

don't even realize. why he was beloved by his players and people across minnesota. mike, i know at the end of the day, there are a lot of people just getting to know tim walz, but, boy, are they going to fall in love with him. >> governor healey, first, a strong no way on that slingshot. you could never catch me on that. you were one of the first democratic governors to urge biden to consider his campaign. i want to get your thoughts including his decision to step away and what role the current president should play in this campaign. >> well, i'll leave that to president biden. i just commend president biden for his incredible four years, one of the most press department in u.s. history. he delivered so much for us, saved democracy in 2020. he is a hero and a patriot. i'm excited about this ticket

and where we are right now. if you have seen kamala harris come out with grace, with strength. with force, with humility, with humor, right? that's why trump's ducking debates and they're running scare and making crazy, christiangy comments along the way. i think president biden has made his support clear. all of us are going to be out. the stakes are so high. this is so, so important. dem advantagic governor maura healey from massachusetts. thanks so much for coming on to the show. we appreciate it. now to the key primaries in michigan. the general open u.s. senate seat is now set. congresswoman elissa slotkin secured the democratic nomination defeating hill

harper. she will face off against former representative mike rogers who won. the two will compete to replace the seat of debbie stabenow who's retired at the end of her term. roger has the backing of former president donald trump. meanwhile in missouri, congresswoman cori bush lost her seat to wesley bell. divisions over the democratic party with israel's war against haz as bush was a critic to the israel attack on hamas. bell got an $8 million boost in the largest pro-israel lobby. bush is the second member of the so-called squad to lose their seat in the squad following

representative jamaal bowman in new york. john heilemann, what do you make of all this? >> mika, it's not coincidental that you have elissa slotkin winning and cori bush losing. i think it is the case, you know, in that moment when these young representatives, many of them very talented, many of them with potentially bright futures in front of them won in the midterm elections in 2018 that became known as the squad. it's been kind of a catchall phrase that didn't necessarily capture the variety of the people within that group and the variance with how progressive or how far left they are. you have someone like ayanna pressley who had been a mainstream democrat who was lumped in because of her age and race in that group, but there's always been some divergence. and the members of the squad who

have been the most vulnerable, people like jamaal bowman and cori bush have been far extreme on the democratic ideology and positioning for some time. they looked vulnerable going into their primaries. in a presidential year, a congresswoman from missouri who was going to have to be running in this bigger broader electorate, cori bush was someone who was going to have a hard time for a while. i'm not surprised to see her lose. elissa slotkin is on the other side of this party, whether that's with mikie sherrill, and others who call in in the saum year in terms of the squad, and in terms of how close they were to the mainstream of the democratic thinking, they're much closer. they're just in better electoral positions. that's kind of proving out over

time that the real story of 2018 is much more of that clutch of women who got elected who were many of the military veterans who were more not in the center but more kind of center left or out of the far left democrats, that's the story that unfolded not just last night, but over the course of the last two or four years. >> john heilemann, thank you very much. and, lauren, thank you as well. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll take a look at the major papers including a major gun victory in maryland. "morning joe" is coming back in just a moment. "morning joe" is coming back in just a moment. protect against rsv with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower

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here comes the pass! look at this kid! coming in tight on the line. team usa, what a run! it's gold for team usa. noah lyles with another gold medal. in case there was any doubt, who was the breakout star of these world championships. 45 past the hour. let's take a look now at some of the morning papers across the country. "the baltimore sun" leads with a federal court's decision to

uphold maryland's assault-style weapons ban. the 4th u.s. circuit appeals voted 10-5 to affirm a lower court's decision to uphold the ban, finding that regulating excessively dangerous weapons such as the ar-15 is compatible with the second amendment. one of the plaintiff's challenging maryland's law said it would ask the supreme court to review the case. the concord monitor has a front page feature on new hampshire let's move to provide mental health services for prisoners. incassius rated individuals in the state will soon receive expanded coverage for mental health and substance abuse help before release. it's to ensure reintegration and reduce overdose death. and the hartford kourure

reports on the plan that drives people indoors and increases transmission risks. covid transmissions in the state rose to 126 last friday compared to numbers in the 70s a month ago. we'll watch that. coming up, it's been called one of the best shows of the decade. the co-creators and one of the star's hbo's "industry" joins us next to discuss the eagerly anticipated third season. we'll be right back. y anticipated third season we'll be right back. now that i have inspire, i'm free from struggling with the mask and the hose. inspire? inspire is a sleep apnea treatment that works inside my body with a click of this button. no mask! no hose! just sleep. give me this thing. where are you going? i'm going to get inspire. inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com.

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the contract in this place is simple, as long as i'm making money, i'm free. >> are you a worker? >> i am. i am a worker. >> i had a wrecking ball in that seat, i would just as quickly fire another one. >> your former boss called us nine times. either he really can't stand you or he doesn't want anyone else to have you. which is it?

>> that was a look at the upcoming third season of hbo's critically acclaimed drama "industry," premiering this sunday, the new season pits talented finance analyst harper stern against her former colleagues after she was fired last season when her boss learned she had lied her way into london's finance world. joining us now, the show's co-creators, conrad kay and mickey down and maya halla who stars as harper in the show. it's good to have you all with us. conrad, i'm wondering were you in the initial pitch meeting for "industry"? i want to know what the pitch was and three seasons in what it's become. >> well, i mean, yeah, me and mickey, we've known each other since we were very young. we're now in our mid-30s. we met at college. we were shamelessly chewed up and spat out by the finance industry.

when we came to hbo, we were huge fans of finance movies, but we'd never seen our experience rendered authentically on screen. that is, you know, not a topdown version of that world but a bottom up version of that world starting with people who don't have power but are looking to accrue it. the lens of the show is skewed really young. that was our main pitch to hbo. >> you were cast after they had 200 interviews i'm told. >> is that right? >> that's right. >> you guys haven't told her that? >> we didn't tell her directly to her face. >> was she number one or 199? >> 200. >> amazing. you went to carnegie mellon, and you live in brooklyn. >> i do. >> how do you get into the role, the part of playing not an intern, you were an analyst at this big financial house in london? >> well, surprisingly as i've learned getting to play this part and being introduced to the world of finance, when you are a

young person on the ground floor just trying to sort of make your way, it's not terribly dissimilar to being an emerging actor. you're banging down doors and you're trying to prove yourself really hard to a lot of executives and casting directors and whoever, so when harper gets this job in london, it's like the thing that will change her life forever. her dreams coming true, and that was exactly what happened with me with this show. >> so mickey, in putting this show together with your partner, you both have a background working in finance. >> yeah, background's a big, big word for what we did in finance. >> you once worked there. >> we did, we did. >> okay. so what kinds of things did you take from your experience, probably bad because you've been fired. >> it wasn't all bad. >> that you brought to this? >> as konrad said, renderings of finance have always been from the topdown. our experience was going in with

very little power, in my experience very little. >> talent. >> knowledge, ability. >> like most bankers. >> exactly. so yeah, that was our experience. the first season especially had a very narrow lens. it was about the subjective experience of the analysts and the things that they cared about, trying to impress your boss. in seasons two and three we've expanded it as the grads have more responsibilities, the stakes are a lot higher. >> let's take a look at a clip from the new season where myhalla's character works to get herself back into the fold of london's finance world. take a look. >> hi. >> can i help you? >> i was hoping you might indulge me and allow me to finish my earlier thought. >> i'm listening. >> yes, she is a fad. ethical investing is a fad.

everybody and their snotty brother claim to be esg. the valuations are making them stupid investments now anyway. not to mention macro headwinds, the election, lack of clear sighted investment in fossil fuels. really, it's like a utopian opiate for morons who believe in a better world. >> tell me, first of all, how you connect with your character beyond there are some parallels to your real life work situation and working in finance, and also, to what do you put the success of this series so far, what is it, do you think, that is drawing people in? >> oh, gosh, i think -- i think our show as singular and specific as it is, as niche to

most lay people as the finance industry is, it is relatable to anyone who's ever wanted something, and that's how i connect with my character in the show. i am incredibly ambitious. i have really big dreams, and harper has really big dreams, and she's willing to achieve them by any means necessary, and they've all come to this place in hopes that they're entering a meritocracy that they can prove themselves regardless of their background, their race, their economic status, and make something of themselves, and i think that anyone who's had a temp job or worked in a mailroom or is a desk assistant can relate to the struggle of wanting to make something of themselves. >> to drive forward. the third season of "industry" premiers this sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on hbo and max. konrad kay, mickey down, and myhalla, congratulations on "industry." that does it for us this

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