lots of great stuff coming up on "the weekend" msnbc, including "to be destroyed," the latest installment from executive producer trevor noah. it takes a look at the fight against book bans. that airs tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. eastern. we will be joined by the film's director tomorrow morning starting at 8:00 a.m. eastern. be sure to follow us at "the weekend" msnbc. symone sanders-townsend will be back tomorrow, fear not. ali velshi continues our coverage. leave or not, this is close to my heart, this issue of combating. not to be destroyed,

this idea of freedom kennebec terrace is putting forward, it does not just talk about reproductive freedom, it talks about something she is very into, freedom to be killed by a gun in this country, but leading into book learning, freedom to make choices with your family about what you read. i think that is important that people that aren't into this book bending to understand. parents of young children should have the greatest amount of influence on what their children read. the distinction is, parents of young children should have zero influence on what others' young children read. i am looking for that discussion in the next couple of months. >> good to see you, bro.>> thank you, you have a good day and "velshi" starts now.

good morning, it is ali velshi here. it is august 10th. we still have a few things happening before this election. in fact, what we have been talking about this last little while is the momentum and enthusiasm of the harris campaign. the idea that the harris campaign is leading into different strategies and concepts that the biden campaign was. the biden campaign, much like what we talk about here on this show, was all about the fear, the danger of what would happen if donald trump were elected. the existential danger to the economy. to democracy at large. kennebec terrace is taking a different approach. she is leaning into the idea of hope and joy. they mean different things. it was all in the idea of freedom. let's talk about that freedom for a second, not just freedom as an american society. take a look at this lineup. this is phoenix arizona last

night. this is the line of people looking to talk to kamala harris, or listen to kamala harris and thomas in phoenix arizona last night. all right, 20,000 people, some people estimate . we heard from the harris campaign 15,000 people. that is just the beginning. there were 15,000 people last night. there was a rally in detroit that had 15,000 people. oakland wisconsin had 15,000 people, detroit, philadelphia had close to 15,000 people. in the days since joe biden ended his reelection campaign and an harris took over the democratic ticket, there has been an undeniable shift in the presidential race. we are following that shift today, discussing what that shift has a look like. this concept of freedom, not just freedom to vote, not just freedom over your reproductive-- your reproductive freedoms, as i said, freedom to read wherever you want to read, the freedom to vote, the freedom to

make the choices you want to make in an important society. anyway, this is the kind of enthusiasm that message of freedom and joy is doing, and we are going to talk about that this morning. i am joined by steve bullock, former two term democratic candidate, chair of the american bridge 24 century, and previously ran for the democratic presidential nomination in 2020. also with us is keith ellison, attorney general of minnesota, former congressman of the state. he is the author of the book "break the will," it is a pleasure to talk to you both at the same time. governor, let me start with you . the harris campaign is going through a lot of swing states. we have got the cook political report moving through arizona, nevada, likely republican into tulsa, we have got polls, the times in siena, putting out

polls that show kamala harris, within the margin of error is, is in ahead of donald trump in michigan and wisconsin. we have donald trump today in your state, montana. tell me about that. >> yeah, ali, it sort of says a lot about the trump-vance campaign when you look at what harris-walz have been doing in the last week, pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, nevada. the only time he leaves his golf course is to come to montana, the big sky state. you've been trying to get there, the wheels fell off for the hydraulics went out on his plate and he did not make it to bozeman on the initial side. i think that is one of those things too. montanans remember he came four times in 2018 to campaign against my friend jon tester. all we were left with is unpaid bills for our cities and towns. the energy and excitement where donald trump is worrying about

his crowd sizes, and harris and walz are worrying about working people, and the american people, i think it is not only momentum, it is actually the reality of fighting for this freedom and joy, and talking about the difference it can make in people's lives. >> one of the things that donald trump brought up in his press conference he has talked about tim walz, is minnesota after the george floyd demonstrations. you remember, i was there about you and i spoke the morning after i took a rubber bullet. felonious floyd, george floyd's brother has come out and endorsed walz. it was a tough time in your state. it was hard to get it right. there were all kinds of things going wrong. there were good protesters, bad protesters, good police, bad police, all sorts of things going on. give me your impression of tim walz as he how he governed minnesota in one of the most

challenging times that state has seen in a very long time. hang on a second. we have got a mic problem. i think you might be muted. let's unmute, i want to hear exactly what you have to say. there we go. are you unmerited now? >> yes, sorry about that. i was going to say, during that time, i remember you being there on the scene, watching everything unfold. the events were changing rapidly, but tim walz worth attending to the needs of the family. i am so glad felonious floyd endorsed him. i know the family felt good about the attention the governor so to their family. he also was in constant touch with me as well as the minnesota national guard, and in terms of the cities, he acted, in my view, about as

well as anybody could in a very difficult situation. he was quick, attentive, concerned, he also was respective to the law and local authorities' responsibilities. i know that they are going to try to politicize how that went down. i know that none of them would have went any better and governor walz did extremely well . he called out the national guard, he appointed me, and made personal and direct calls to the family unit i want to tell you this, so did kamala harris. we won that case and when the verdict came back and we convicted derek chauvin, one of the first calls was about president biden, and vice president kamala harris, who thanked our prosecution team directly. not just public pronouncements, also individual and personal contact. i think they are very compassionate, very concerned as well. >> governor i want to talk

about-- we were talking about montana. this is a grudge match basically for donald trump. he was trying to get his personal physician, ronnie jackson, appointed to head of veteran appears-- affairs, blocked that. donald trump, once you get on his list, he is going to after you. let's talk about how this harris-walz campaign can reach out to, and can touch and possibly convince people in states like yours that are not usually front and center in these campaigns, we will see a lot of that. not just talking about the swing states, but how they appeal to people in other states who feel they have not necessarily always connected with the aquatic party, how can that work? >> it is exciting. i have known the vice president, we served as attorneys general together. and governor walz max, i was

national association chair when he first came in. what the focus is on is making sure everybody has a fair shot and better shot at life, not just experts for corporations and wealthy people. as general ellis certainly knows , tim had run and represented the district, not unlike montana , not unlike a lot of places in this country, that often do feel like the democratic party start fighting for the best interest. people are talking about across the bar, across the kitchen table, we will get there. and i think they can be persuasive. think about what governor walz max sort of hold message was as governor, make minnesota be blessed best place to have a child. that have to do with things like child tax credit, paid medical leave, lunches in

schools. those are things people care about and i think harris and walz can take that forward and be much more competitive all across this country. >> attorney general, you have witnessed firsthand how governor walz has achieved progress in minnesota with democratic controlled legislator . you've got paid family leave, free meals for school kids, and trying abortion-rights, feminine hygiene products. trump is now attacking him and kamala harris, and likely anybody who would have run on the ticket as too progressive, radical, leftist, socialist, all of these kind of things that are actually widely popular in minnesota, widely popular across the country, and widely popular across the industrialized world. >> well, look. tim walz is a teacher. he knows it is hard to teach kids if they are hungry. when he is governor he says,

let's make sure kids have a lunch. we are not going to ask questions about, who has got the money doesn't? he just says, let's make sure every kid is eating so they can focus in school. that is pragmatic. people call it what they want. they want to put a stamp or ideological label on it. what it really is is meeting the needs of the people you represent. the same thing when it comes to the child tax credits, making sure families have the resources they need to make minnesota the best place in the country to raise a child. that is what it is all about, to raise your family, get it done. tim walz is also the kind of guy to campaign in places where you only have vocational voters . he will go into communities, rural communities, places where people live in manufactured housing, sometimes called mobile home parks. he will walk

in with his camo jacket on, sit down with that big smile of yours, shake hands, and communicate with people that he cares about them. a lot of the ideas that came out of the administration, the minnesota governor's office and legislator were based on conversations that walz and others had with minnesotans, whether they live in an urban mac environment like where george floored floyd was killed, or in rural communities. bullock is absolutely right, tim walz won in the first congressional district, which is demographically a lots of farms, a lot of folks looking for an opportunity, and who feel that this economy has not included them. how do they get over the hump? talking to people directly, whether or not they are on the frequent voter list or not, caring, sitting down, listening. that is how he won. by the way,

it was a republican seat until he ran and we don't have that seat now. the guy has something special. treatment stay with me. i want to continue this conversation. we will be back with more "velshi" after this. this. throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. we're still going for that nice catch. we're still going for that perfect pizza. and with higher stroke risk from afib not caused by a heart valve problem,... ...we're going for a better treatment than warfarin. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk. and has less major bleeding. over 97% of eliquis patients did not experience a stroke. don't stop taking eliquis without talking to your doctor as this may increase your risk of stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking, you may bruise more easily... ...or take longer for bleeding to stop. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. it may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines.

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daniel doesn't take excuses. he holds himself accountable. and i know that he can do it for the city of san francisco. in the almost three weeks since joe biden ended his reelection campaign and kamala harris took over, there has been an undeniable shift in the presidential race. for the first time, the bottles are good in the party, with an emphasis on party. it was only three weeks ago when the attempt on donald trump's live streamed on the momentum, which gave republicans something to be pumped about last month. now, it appears that the democrats who appear to be running the more enthusiastic and energetic campaign with less than three months until election day. the democratic election will

take a-- take place in chicago next week. yesterday, many supporters waited in line in 105 degrees heat ahead of their rally in glendale, arizona, although they tell me it is a dry heat. the piercing to draw contest between the optimistic hep a they are running in trump's campaign of retribution. >> she has brought back compassionate decency, and joy to our party! >> what kind of country do we want to live in? do we want to live in a country of chaos, fear, and hate? or a country of freedom, compassion, and rule of law?

>> arizona, as i mentioned earlier, was the fourth battleground state the pair has mentioned in as many days and over 15,000 people turned out for that rally last night. they also hosted a energetic rally in wisconsin last night. another one in michigan, 50,000 people, all according to the hearers campaign. that high level of enthusiasm may be moving the needle. according to a new poll released this morning by sierra college in the "new york times", harris is leading 3-6 in those battleground states and there are other signs that voters are responding to the upbeat campaign. on thursday, the cook political report changed their forecast for three other battleground states, arizona, georgia, all three had been rated as lean republican. they are now in the top subcategory. harris-walz will continue in a fifth swing state, nevada, which biden won by fewer than 1000 votes in 2020.

meanwhile, trump has only held one in a battleground state this month, georgia. he emerged on thursday to give a rambling and bizarre press conference from mar-a-lago. then, he appeared at a rally in the deep red state of montana last night where it became apparent that hearers's well attended rallies seemed to get under his skin and made him wish that bided was back in the waste. -- biden was back in the race. >> he will walk into the room and say, i want my presidency back. i want another chance to debate trump, i want another chance. >> trump as we mentioned, was there to campaign against the republican candidate going up against democratic candidate jon tester, a guy that trump dislikes very much. hearers has forced trump to be on the defensive. enthusiasm for her campaign has led to record-breaking numbers and amounts of donations, which has resulted in harris having a

lot more cash in hand and her republican component-- opponent . which weight may be a reason why he has spent a lot of times lately in battleground states with his embattled running mate j.d. vance. the former president has suggested and struggled to figure out an effective strategy to attack hearers. his recent attempt to question her blackness completely backfired and none of the nicknames he has been testing out for her has stuck. he has called her incompetent, dumb, claiming she can't even string two sentences together and criticized her for not holding a press conference or sitting down for an interview since becoming a party's nominee. here is trump trying to string two sentences together at the press conference he held at mar- a-lago in response to a very direct, very specific yes or no question about whether he would ban the abortion drug mifepristone. >> you can do things that would supplement, absolutely. those things are pretty open. you have to be able to have a

vote. >> i stand corrected. that was apparently one senses he was trying to string together. if those sound familiar, it is because he is recycling the same old attack lines on here as he used on biden. when all else failed, he pivoted to the bungling. in an email sent out this week to me he claims that harris and walz will unleash hell on earth . compare that with walz, the candidate bringing back the joy. this is also a departure from the campaign that biden was running, which focused largely on saving democracy from trump, a very real threat. polls may show that hearers has improved appoint biden's numbers this summer, but for the most part, the race still remains very tight and competitive, and neither candidate is running away with this election. that would be steve bullock, and keith ellison, former attorney general of minnesota. former congressman of the state

and author of the book quote, break the will ending the cycle of political violence. governor, you were a presidential candidate. you have all sorts of choices about what tone you will set. can make here is leading to freedom and joy right from the offset. freedom is still about donald trump and the dangers he will impose. it is still about abortion, book banning, god that's --gun deaths, but she is framing it differently than what i would frame. i warned that if you put trump, you might see the end of the american democracy. she's taking a much more positive approach, what do you think? >> i think it is really going well, ali, from the perspective, these are big threats. this 200 year experiment called representative democracy is a threat. a woman having dominion and control over her reproductive healthcare choices wherever she lives certainly is threatened. and we see that all over. what you see 900 pages of

project 2025 is a threat to how we actually live and govern in this country. but by saying, this is about freedoms, my freedom, the freedom over a woman's body the freedom to actually read what you want, the freedom to make sure that we continue to vote for the freedom to make sure you have those basic necessities, which for a lot of folks are things like social security and medicare. i think making it positive, giving americans a reason to both support, not just be concerned and vote against, i think has been playing well over the next three weeks, but also will play well over the next 87 days. what we see is harris and walz are worried about people's lives , not just worried about themselves, which is what we are seeing with trump and vance . >> attorney general, something interesting happened this week.

vice president hearers has from an empathy perspective, as it relates to the war in gaza, she stated clearly in the past, she wants to see a cease-fire. she was the hostages released and she wants the deaths to stop. something happened this week where she got into it with protesters. there are protesters at every event. some wanted to suggest that she lacked empathy in her response. in arizona, there were more hecklers and protesters and she changed her tune. she hurt them and she was not dismissive of them and reiterated that she wants to see a cease-fire of civilian deaths and release of the hostages. she pivoted back to her original position effectively, which i thought was a side of a responsive and good candidate. >> you know, she does care about people. she cares about people, certainly in the united states, but really all over the world. i know her heart grieves like

all of us for the innocent civilians who have been killed, the people in israel, and in gaza. the reality is, the humanitarian situation is grave . it is not only massive loss of life, which we have seen, but we have also seen displacement of community, people with food insecurities, and a lot of those folks have family members in the united states and people who care. she is responding. she is concerned. and i am confident that with a harris-walz administration, that there will be ongoing dialogue about how to bring forth meaningful change that will allow both gazans and palestinians, and israelis to live in peace. they will focus on this issue because they care , and they understand that it is important for the stability of the united states. it is in the national interest of our country to have peace, security, stability, and

therefore justice in that part of the world. >> i am so appreciative to you to know, not just for this discussion, but you both have been such good friends over the years. good to see you both. keith ellison, attorney general of minnesota. coming up, hot republican members of a case week election board are making it easier for election officials not to certify the results of the upcoming election. upcoming election. . and not even scrubbing. —well, fluff my feathers. — [giggle] it cuts through the slimy stuff better than their old dish soap, removing 99% of grease. that's why only dawn is trusted to save wildlife.

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that's why (man) oh, come on.ly dawn ♪ (woman) ugh. (vo) trade in any phone, in any condition. guaranteed at verizon. and get the new galaxy s24 on us. only on verizon. and his rally in atlanta, georgia last saturday, donald trump slammed over brian kemp and secretary of state brad roethlisberger, both republicans, for refusing to overturn the 2020 election. he complained about them, accusing them of doing anything

to make it difficult for republicans to win. after trump repeated his age- old lie that he won georgia in 2020, he pivoted to praising some other georgia officials. >> i don't know if you heard, the georgia state election board is in a very positive way. this is a very positive thing, marjorie. they are on fire here they are doing a great job. three members, janice johnson, rick jeffries, and janelle king, three people are all peoples, fighting for honesty, transparency, and victory. they are fighting. >> those people trump just name checks are three of the five members of georgia state board of elections. they are all republicans, and all have questioned the result of the 2020 election. this past tuesday, in a 3-2 vote, those three "people's" approved a rule to how

elections are certified in georgia. it allows county board members to conduct a quote, reasonable inquiry into whether or not election results are complete and accurate before they certify them. however, the does not define what a reasonable inquiry entails, meaning, election officials in the 159 counties, get you to decide for themselves what they consider to be reasonable. legal experts have expressed that the rule can be used as just justification, not to certified results for partisan reasons or consult the election fraud, that trump and his m.a.c. have been pushing for years, and that is the problem. mark elias said, the new rule is quote, another powerful tool in trump's election subversion arsenal sink for me wants to be able to pick and choose which election results are accepted, based solely on the outcome. this rule is a step in that direction. wednesday, the state board of directions-- elections but

again, those same rules select attorney general christopher carr to reopen the investigation into how fulton county, georgia, essentially atlanta, handled the 2020 election. the board members want to revisit the case of about 3000 ballots from fulton county that were erroneously double scanned, a mistake that fulton county admitted to. ironically, the actual votes on those ballots disproportionally favor donald trump and would not have benefited biden. this election will certainly be a close one. as the gop appears to be working hard to advise voting rules in their favor, it may not be an even playing field. after the break, i will talk to the sole member of the georgia board of elections. el so they can make every customer feel like they've arrived before they've left the ground. this is how business goes further with t-mobile for business.

joining me now, sara tindall ghazal, from the georgia board of elections. i'm trying to rip wrap my head around this, i am not a lawyer or an election official, i'm trying to understand what this concept of reasonable inquiry that anybody, elections people in any of the 159 counties can say. they can count the votes, they can say whatever, they were counted, the machine worked, all of that stuff, they can come up with something called,

reasonable inquiry, and we don't know what that means, exactly. >> and that is exactly the problem. georgia's stature defines the canvas process and certification very specifically in law. you make sure that every valid vote was tabulated and included in those about totals. the law and describes exactly where you need to look, where you need to look for, and how you do that process. it also describes that by 5:00, on the monday after the election, counties must certify those elections. the law says, they shall certify. that means, that is a mandatory process. they have no discretion. so, entering into the rules as a phrase like reasonable inquiry, creates uncertainty. that appears to me to be the whole purpose of it. >> are there-- i would think that if one were to say, given

what has happened in georgia in the past or something like that, these are the categories. if this happens, you should have an inquiry, if this happens, the machine over celts, double counts, whatever the case is are there safeguards in place to prevent this world from being used arbitrarily to delay or deny vote certifications? >> like i said, the law still says that certification shall happen. the courts are the safeguards in place, the secretary of state has announced, he expects every county to certify by 5:00 p.m. on monday, afterwards. you have to take this rule in context, which is, there is also an ongoing court case spearheaded by the same board member who has been pushing some of these rules in fulton county that, in the legal theme of the case, is there, literally trying to force the

courts to change certification into a discretionary task, and they are represented by the america first policy institute. this is not just a good faith effort to make sure our county boards are doing their jobs, this is a deliberate and coordinated effort to undermine the certification process. >> let's talk about court. is there a likelihood that this particular would be challenged in court, and is there a risk that perhaps losses will come once counties start either counting or missing certification deadlines? that is what everybody is worried about. we are not going to know how georgia voted weeks or months after the election? >> i expect there to be court challenges to the rules. obviously, it is an unlawful use of the authority to pass a rule that does not comport with the law. in my view, that is what we have just done, violated state statue with this rule. i expect

there will be court challenges if a county refuses to certify. >> can you tell me a little about the fulton county situation? that was adjudicated. this is the part of the issue. everything that went right or wrong in the 2020 election has been adjudicated. fulton county did have an issue. it would not have benefited donald trump, regardless. they figured out what was wrong and in theory have fixed it. tell me about that, please. >> this is probably the sixth or seventh, i haven't counted, number of investigations into what happened in fulton county in 2020. the last is exactly how you described it. there were a batch of ballots, 3000 and a handful that were scanned twice. did not affect the vote totals, because they were not for one candidate. as you pointed out, disproportionally for the former president.

and the county has changed everything since 2020. they have changed their headquarters. they have changed their leadership. the board has change your most important, they have added lots of new procedures in place and safeguards to prevent this from happening again. that has been the primary focus of the board is to make sure, yes, we acknowledge what happened, make sure fulton county does not do this again, and that we are looking forward to 2024 to make sure everybody's vote is counted accurately, and the results reflect the will of the voters. that is what elections are all about. >> notwithstanding the politicization of the process, are you, as a georgia state election board member, confident in georgia's board member to execute the election and count the ballots? notwithstanding the fact that 159 counties can all do this reasonable inquiry. do you think the election can

be fair in georgia? >> i absolutely believe the election can be fair in georgia, if we are operating on the rules we have today. the problem is, this board is now trying to change the rules 90 days before the election, 86 days before the election. we entered into rulemaking something that would change the way absentee ballots are accepted. it will not go into force until 40 days before the election. there is another rule we entered into rulemaking that would change the way absentee ballots and emergency ballots are printed. it will not come into force until after our overseas and military ballots have already been mailed out. that is deeply concerning to me , that they are changing the rules of the last second. and that is where chaos happens. >> i am glad we have had the second conversation. it it's clear to me every time we talk. i appreciate you.

sara tindall ghazal, the georgia state election board member. still to come, we continue our ongoing series inside project 2025. today, we turn to chapter 22 of the manifesto that focuses on the treasury department to find out how a new trump administration would remake the text system, including a massive and permanent tax hike on working and middle-class families to fund tax cuts on the richest americans. richest . shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. only shingrix is proven over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. we realize some home maintenance jobs aren't worth the risk. that's when we call leaffilter

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one of donald trump's signature pieces of legislation was the 2016 tax cuts and jobs act me better known as the trump tax-cut. the benefit, a corporate tax rate cut boosted salaries, but it failed to trickle down to workers and the tax cuts skewed several orders of magnitude toward the top 1% of owners

earners. many of the provisions will expire in 2025, which is where project 2025 steps in. these 922 page handbook for the next conservative presidency takes a big swing at tax policy and the changes suggested would mean higher taxes for the average american family, widening america's already massive income gap. here is how. this year, the united states has seven tax brackets. your taxable income and filing status assignment determine which bracket you fall under and that outlines the percentage you will owe on different portions of your income. the top tax bracket as a federal income rate of 37%. the lowest bracket has a 10% income tax. millions of americans, by the way, do not make enough money to fall into any of the seven brackets,

which means, they do not pay federal income tax. no, virtually all americans pave some form of text, whether sales tax, estate tax, or property tax. 40% of american households end up not knowing any federal income tax when they apply for government tax credits and deductions. not so under project 2025. in fact, on page 696 of project 2025, it calls for, simplifying the tax structure by enacting a simple to write individual tax system of 15% and 30% that eliminates most deductions, credits, and exclusions. depending on your current income, you could be text taxed more or less under this plan, but for millions of working- class americans, taxes would shoot up. by raising the floor of our tax brackets, but lowering the ceiling, project 2025 would shift the country's tax burden from which to middle and lower class americans. it is a tax hike or working- class americans. according to analysis from the center of american process anon

policy institute, under this new system, the average family of four would see a tax increase of $2985. while households reporting over $10 million in income would see a tax cut of $1.5 million. to address the second part of that section, eliminating quote, most deductions, credits, and exclusions. the tax credits work like government incentives, allowing you to write off expenses generally in society's interests. project 2025 just says, eliminate most. so, which ones you eliminate the tax credits meant to give tax breaks for children under 17? sure. it was only used by 36 million households in 2022. eliminate the american opportunity tax credit, which allows people to write off tuition costs and school supplies? why not? eliminate climate credits included in the president's inflation reduction act?

those allowed people to live climate conscious lives. they have been more popular than expected since introduced. according to new data introduced by the treasury department, americans collectively claimed $were a.4 billion using one of biden's green subsidies to purchase solar panels or otherwise make homes more efficient. everything we have gone over so far is jim into one single sentence on page 696. i want to look at some of the other suggestions in project 2025. it suggests decreasing the corporate tax rate to 18%. it had already been cut to 21% by the trump tax-cut. it was at 30% before that. it calls for a new consumption tax, charged to you when you spend money and floats the idea of a national consumption tax. the most aggressive form of taxes and represent a disproportionate burden for

poor and middle-class families. project 2025 argues for the appeal of the tax on drug manufacturers, which would destroy the government's ability to control the price of medication. it calls for a cap of $12,000 on untaxed employee benefits companies can write off for production, which can this intensifies offering more comprehensive health benefits. the average family medical plan costs $70,000, $5000 more than that right off. project 2025 is interested in making employee health more cost for the private companies and make it private healthcare work costly for the patients. so these policies cannot be undone. quote, treasury should support legislation, instituting a 3/5 vote threshold in the u.s. house and

senate to raise income or corporate tax rates to create a wall of protection for the new rate structure. that is on page 698. hell is part has been touting another brilliant tax scheme. as with him thursday at a press conference in mar-a-lago. >> we are not going to charge tax to social security, the seniors. we are not going to do it. and also charge, i say the two things, no tax on seniors, social security, and no tax on tips. very simple. >> putting aside, he really does seem to have trouble stringing two sentences that make sense together, what he said sounds like a good deal, like how a kid running for class president promises pizza for lunch everyday. when you read between the lines, does not actually add up. the center for american progress is, it would deliver

the little for restaurant services, but do before money managers who could under this law transfer commissioners they earn into a fee-based model and pay no tax on their earnings. as far as taxes on social security, the majority of low and income americans on social security do not earn enough money to be text on their benefits, but rich people do. higher earners that still receive social security would benefit most. according to the committee for a responsible budget, eliminating taxes on social security would accelerate social security's insolvency by a year to 2022, and bring medicaid to insolvency in 2030, six years ahead of the current rate. it would increase the deficit by over $1 trillion me which would lead to more cuts. if these policies don't benefit you and don't benefit the government programs, what exactly do they benefit you mark i will let you guess. gues. -

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joining me now is dorothy

brown, professor and chair in taxation at georgetown university law center go. she's the author of the book, quote, the whiteness of wealth how the tax system impoverishes wealthy americans. thank you for being with us again. i need you to help us get through this. it is a dense book anyway, not easy to read project 2025. the text part is late and with few words that mean a lot of things. let's break some of this down. before the break, we went over a lot. project 2025 calling for, in terms of text changes, is there anything that worries you in particularly? >> yes, there's something that worries me more than what you talked about in the last segment, that section of the treasury department, i call it trump 2.0. since they were reversed, i'm quoting their language, the racist equity agenda of the biden administration of the

german department. project 2025 is a gift the fair administration of our text tax laws, because they don't want to play fair. they want to audit enemies, politicians would beat them, journalists who have outed their illegal activity, prosecutors who helped bring them to justice, anyone who has ever crossed donald trump. they could also revoke the tax- exempt status of the naacp legal defense fund, or the aclu, or other who wrote organizations who have held donald trump's feet to the fire when he was president. they could leak personal tax return information just for embarrassment or for dachshund. while that is illegal, who would stop them? not the department of justice. that would be another arm of the trump administration 2.0. how would they do this work by creating or increasing the number of people who work in treasury and across the federal

government, whose job depends on pleasing the president. i am angry about this and we should all be angry, because they want to target our fellow americans and use our text dollars to do it. you bring up a point that every expert who we have on every topic here brings up. that is the schedule f and the firing of up to 50,000 expert bureaucrats, replacing them with loyalists, is the part of this thing that is most dangerous because it will infringe this. not the kind of thing the next president can come in reverse. now you are in french politics of what is supposed to be a politics. the other thing that bothers me is the aggressive nature of these. the concept there will be two text levels, everyone floats this. a flack text, you can fill out your taxes on a postcard. , yout your taxes on a postcard.

>> absolutely. and it will affect our lowest income americans, our lowest income workers who are doing everything they can, working multiple jobs trying to make ends meet, and they do it, why? so that you can give corporations a lower tax rate, which means corporate shareholders, the richest americans among us, that is not fair. it goes back to their warning to change or reverse, in their language, the quote, unquote racist, equity agenda, with all the biden administration has done in the treasury department is seek fairness. they don't want to play fair. >> talk to me about this two rate nearly flat tax system.

>> it is bad . it is exactly what you said. the highest tax rate is 37%. it goes down to 30%. millionaires, who are already escaping taxation, they get a lower rate. they want the income from stock to go down from 20% to 15%, which would be higher than working-class americans would pay, because they don't have money in the stock market in a way that gives them access to that low 15% rate. working-class, middle-class americans would see their taxes go up and the richest americans like those oil barons who are in the room with trump talking about getting tax breaks, talking about getting policies that support them, those people , those billionaires, they would love this and that is just not fair. >> good to talk to you. thank you so much. what the route is professor and chair of taxation and