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tv   The Katie Phang Show  MSNBC  August 10, 2024 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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try to understand what people have gone through in the past and what people are going through in other cultures, even with other plaintiff if you believe science fiction can execute that kind of stuff. >> this is a thank you for the tribute of the book club and a tribute to you and other authors who are out there trying to tell interesting stories and interesting ways that will help people compelled to learn. we will have you back want to celebrate the fact that this book challenging bs is behind us. for now, carry on and keep on the good fight. anthony doerr, author of today's velshi banned bookclub feature, "all the light we cannot see". catch me back here tomorrow morning from 10 a.m.-- 10:00 a.m. until noon eastern. eastern. and katie phang letter from telemundo studios in miami florida and here's the week that was. three taylor swift concert is canceled with dramatic
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terror attacks. now, welcome the future vice president of the united states. >> thank you, madam president, for the trust you put in me and thank you for bringing back the joy. like all regular people i grew up with in the heartland, jd studied at yale. i can't wait to debate the guy. that's if he's willing to get off the couch and show up. see what i did there. americans bowing down in admiration during the medal ceremony. diagnosed with covid two days ago, while liles ran anyway. he dropped to the track after the race and was surrounded by medics.
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this weekend, the harris walls presidential ticket continues the run of rallies this time out west. today vice president kamala harris and minnesota governor tim walz will be in nevada after holding their largest rally yet last night in phoenix, arizona and file migrant crossings have dropped dramatically since has been limited asylum claims last month through an executive order, border security remains a top concern for voters. that is why the harris-walls campaign is now running an ad called, telling the vice president's history tackling the issue is a california prosecutor and her support for the bipartisan border deal that
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was tanked by republicans at the urging of their cult leader donald trump. starting us off is live from the olympic games in paris, democratic congressman robert garcia of california. he is a member of the house oversight and homeland security committees. he is also a show favorite. thank you for taking the time to join us from paris. i want to play a little bit of sound from that new border campaign from kamala harris and i mentioned that a moment ago, take a very quick listen please. >> as vice president she backed the toughest border control bill in decades and as vice president she will order thousands more border agents and crackdown on fentanyl and human trafficking. fixing the borders tough. so is kamala harris. >> republicans of been working overtime trying to make this borders our label stick with the vice president despite the fact that that is a lie. kamala harris never had a role called order tsar. even more so she was next -- never fat -- taxed with fixing
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immigration at the border. >> i think it's a great ad and i think that it tells the truth. we all know vice president harris has been instrumental in actually working with the president to put forward a strong border plan. donald trump of course put that aside and rejected it. he has no interest in doing anything to secure the border. we know kamala harris has been working on that very issue but it's not just going to be about advertising in the ad. it's also going to be about ensuring she goes out every single state in talks the message. you saw what she just did in arizona, which is going to do in nevada. she understands the issues, particularly here out west. she understands that border security is important, but also a strong pathway around immigration. she's been talking
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about those things so the strategy for the campaign is going to be that strong messaging, strong ads but also to have kamala harris herself speak to her experience in trying to get a border security passage done and by the way, she has said it will be a priority for her when she is elected president. we know donald trump has turned his back completely on anything to do with the border. >> and the vice president seen somethings tightening up in key battleground states. we have a new poll out this morning by the new york times and siena college showing that among likely voters, harris is leading 50% to 46% in michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin. viewers of the show know i am not a big fan of polls but when i see a distinct and consistent trend, i will call it out. i want to get your thoughts on this huge widening margin although we are still within the margin of error, but still this widening margin between what the numbers were previously when it was a joe biden-donald trump matchup. >> i love what is happening out
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of the recent polling and there are two things that are important. in poll after poll including what came out today from the new york times you are seeing her margin get better and increase and create some space, especially in the swing states. that is crystal clear. every single poll is coming out showing a positive improvement for the vice president and for democrats. the second part of this is we know there is one person in the country that is the most obsessed with polling, and his name is donald trump so you know that he is going absolutely bonkers. this is driving him absolutely crazy that she is actually now beating him and some of the swing states. there are a lot of reports about how he is taking the news, not well, and i think what it shows most importantly
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is that kamala harris is resonating with the american public, especially in swing states. tim walz is resonating with the american public. what a fantastic vice presidential pick so i think we are going to continue to see the strengthening of the harris- walls tickets and polling as we move forward but do not be complacent. i tell folks all the time, polling is a snapshot in time. we have to fight every single day because as she says, when we fight, we win. >> the league of latin american citizens is endorsing the harris-walls campaign. this is the first ever endorsement in the 95 year history of the organization. this group is made up of more than just democrats. your thoughts on the fact that they are willing to come forward and publicly support kamala harris in this ticket. >> i think it's a historic moment. the latino community is uniting, solidifying support for this ticket. the vice president has an incredible record standing with our community. i see that record as attorney general, as u.s. senator from california and as vice president, she has always stood up for latino wishes, understands immigration and the
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border she understands is complex and really someone who is always reached out to our community, so it's good to see it. i also think it is a recognition by the community that the single most dangerous person to latino voters is donald trump. there's never been anyone more hostile to our community that has called us horrific names, that says we are poisoning the blood of this country. that has been donald trump's message so i think the latino community will continue to get more and more excited about the ticket. i think we are going to see this from a lot of organizations from latino communities across the country. >> before we have to let you go, i have to mention obviously you are in paris right now as part of the presidents delegation. share with our viewers how it is to be a part of such a historic moment as well over there at the olympics? >> until an honor to be here to
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represent president biden and our country, the united states. our second gentleman, doug emhoff, is leading our delegation here so just to be able to spend time with him, with our olympic athletes that are here, meeting our athletes that are here working so hard to win medals, being able to get to know them, the coaches, but also to learn the olympics are coming back to the united states, to los angeles in 2028. communities that i represent back home, so learning ensuring we have a safe games for our next games when they come to the u.s. but also being able to really meet our athletes and encourage them and how important that the work they're doing is across the country and also the world and it's always an honor to represent the president, so i'm happy to be here. >> on my behalf and on behalf of all americans, please share how proud we are from the hard work that we have seen, and the successes for the united states olympic teams. thanks for joining us from paris, and it is good to see you. >> thanks, katie.
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still to come, delay and dysfunction. inside the delay of trumps d.c. federal election interference case and why that may actually be a very bad thing for the ex- president's legal defense coming up next. size does matter. how vice president kamala harris' door busting crowd seem to be pushing donald trump to a breaking point. keep it right here. we've u, alw. always discreet. you know, when i take the bike out like this, all my stresses just melt away. i hear that. this bad boy can fix anything. yep, tough day at work, nice cruise will sort you right out. when i'm riding, i'm not even thinking about my painful cavity. well, you shouldn't ignore that. and every time i get stressed about having to pay my bills, i just hop on the bike, man. oh, come on, man, you got to pay your bills. you don't have to worry about anything when you're protected by america's number-one motorcycle insurer. well, you definitely do.
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14,000 and philly, 12,000 and wisconsin, 15,000 in detroit and then last night just outside of phoenix, another 15,000 enthusiastic and energetic supporters greeted vice president, harris and her running mate minnesota governor tim walz. walz himself joked this might be the largest political gathering in the history of arizona. >> on wednesday, the largest crowd of the campaign showed up
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in detroit, michigan, but arizona just couldn't leave it alone, could you? >> are you ready to make your voices heard? do we believe in freedom? joining me now, daniel modi and brian tyler cowen, author of the new book "shameless, republicans' deliberate dysfunction in the battle to preserve democracy. " my thanks to both of you for being with me today. kamala harris kicking off her battleground blitz with tim walz just four days ago. the energy in the enthusiasm. palpable and inescapable. what do you make of the tens of thousands of people standing in lines for hours to come out to support them at those rallies? >> i mean i will be honest, i have not seen this kind of energy since 2008. it is inspiring. it is exciting, it is
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exhilarating. democrats are in a right in the most beautiful fashion i think we seen and it shows that americans are ready for change. they are energized for change. they do not want the joyless, humorless, sad and depressing republican party's vision of america. they want freedom. they want to be inspired, and this campaign, these two candidates are absolutely the ticket that we needed at this moment. >> i want to play more sound from that phoenix rally. this is kamala harris responding to a group of propellant and -- pro- palestinian protesters. >> let me say, i have been clear. now is the time to get a cease- fire deal and get the hostage deal done. i respect your voices, but we are here to not talk about this race in 2024.
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>> this is obviously an important, critical issue. it dawned president biden back when he was still running for re-election. how do you think kamala harris handled the situation last night? there was another situation that happened just a few days ago at another rally. >> i think she handled it. clearly she handled it knowing full well that this is a very precarious situation and it did dog president biden and we do have the benefit now of being able to remove an albatross that has been hanging around democrats' necks and she's taking it seriously and communicating with the group. she just spoke with leaders of the uncommitted group and seems to be very open to taking this seriously and she has advocated for a cease-fire, as well, so i think that bodes well, especially in a state like michigan where that is a large contingent of the voting population so overall, she seems to be navigating a tough issue with a lot of professionalism and is at this
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point. >> you know, danielle, the new york times has reporting about just how well kamala harris' surge is getting under trumps and skin. they have described this is the luckiest period of mr. trump's campaign and easily the worst since the late 2022 spree in which he mused about terminating parts of the constitution and dined at mar-a- lago with a white supremacist and an outspoken anti-semite. trump has ranted about harris calling her nasty on fox and friends and calling her names repeatedly in private according to two people who heard the remark on different occasions. should the campaign keep the foot on the gas pedal or amp it up? >> they need to amp it up. they need to continue doing everything they have been doing all the way through the tape on november 5th. i don't pay attention to polls. i'm glad the polls are showing harris and walz are doing well
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but the fact of the matter is that donald trump and the republican party are really creepy, weird, and they are not above stealing elections. they're not above lying. they're not above cheating, and so i think it is really important that this campaign not get distracted with whatever it is that is happening on the other side. i think the energy they have, the focus that they have right now is on the people, not on the media saying oh, why is she doing press conferences? why is she doing this, that and the other thing? this campaign is doing everything that the people want and that is why you are seeing the numbers we are seeing and i think that donald trump is scared and what worries me is that the more fearful donald trump becomes, the more dangerous donald trump becomes and that is what we need to pay attention to and callout. >> brian, one of the issues that understandably always gets the biggest reaction is reproductive rights. here is donald trump trying to talk about it.
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>> related to this is the issue of contraceptives. do you support any restrictions on a person's right to contraception? >> we are looking at that and i'm going to have a policy on that very shortly and i think it is something you will find interesting. it's another issue that is very interesting, but you will find it, i think, very smart. i think it's a smart decision but we will be releasing it very soon. >> so again, trump has no policies, as usual, has no plan, as usual, but at a press conference at mar-a-lago a couple days ago he gave some more incomprehensible words solid answer about it question regarding restricting access to mifepristone. in that answer he makes it very clear he has a quote, plan for it. we've seen trump publicly decompensating. trump is still rabidly anti-
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democracy. >> i want to be fair. he is looking at it very strongly and will have a plan in two weeks, so there you go. no, clearly he first of all doesn't know what mifepristone is and that is why he's dissembling in the aftermath of that question but this guy will ban abortion nationwide if he has the opportunity. to this day he brags about the fact that he appointed a third of the supreme court that went on to overturn roe so of course this guy is proud of this and there is nothing that will stop him from banning abortion nationwide if and when he has the opportunity so we are deluding ourselves if we think for example, just because he tries to qualify his answers depending on who he's talking to, that he will be as extreme as possible. if he can look at what happened in 2022 and 2023 in states like ohio and virginia, kentucky, kansas and even alabama, and
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still brag about the fact that he appointed a third of the supreme court to overturn roe, if you would do that now in the lead up to the election after this has been such a toxic issue for republicans, imagine what he would do if you were unrestrained by another election and had carte blanche to a post whatever abortion restrictions were in front of him. >> we have seen people like joe rogan, tim poole, nick fuentes openly say that they are not going to be supporting donald trump. they've backpedaled and you know, they tried to make excuses for taking those positions but we have also seen publicly attacks on troop social against the campaign leaders for trump. is this a sign in any way that you think there is now an actual kind of break in the armor of the trump campaign? >> no. these rpr moves and this is why i say people cannot become complacent. everything that this campaign does is about pr so we have to be very clear that they have orchestrated a 900 page plan. they know exactly what it is that they want to do to america and we the people cannot let it happen. >> danielle moody and brian
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tyler, dynamic duo for being with us. thanks so much for being here with us today. coming up, reading between the legal lines, white judge tanya chutkin granted a three- week delay in trumps election interference case and what that could mean for decision 2024. that is coming up next. s comin
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this is how business goes further with t-mobile for business. did you know your skin barrier is more receptive to skincare at night? olay super serum night repair. delivers five benefits in one. visibly renewing surface skin cells while you sleep. you'll see visible results in 7 nights. olay. the supreme court's outrageous immunity decision continues to create the delay in this function. judge tanya chutkin yesterday approving a request from special counsel jack smith for a brief delay as smith prepares for the next steps in the d.c. election interference case against the twice-impeached, four-times indicted ex- president donald trump. the new deadline is august 30th with a status conference now
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set for september 6. while it may be frustrating for all of us to watch trump continue to evade some accountability, my next guesses encouraging patients. she writes quote, this case is not going to trial before the election and getting it right matters more than going fast. joining me now, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney in alabama. joyce, you and i talked a lot off-line about the trump cases, and one thing you and i have been talking about is this request by jack smith for more time and obviously it was going to get granted. it was unopposed by trump obviously, but you and i have talked about the meaning of why jack smith would need more time. i wanted to have your thoughts on this because i am not the sky is falling chicken little about this. i think it is critical for smith to get it right his first time at bat. >> that is absolutely the case here, and the reason is, this
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case will go back on appeal before there is a trial. the supreme court has said, and rightly so, that the point of having immunity is that you should not have to go to trial in violation of that immunity so the supreme court, or at least the appellate courts will double check anything judge chutkin does here before it moves on. check -- jack smith has his own obligations. under doj rules he's obligated to consult with a number of different components and have everyone sign off on his final strategy. that is a really cumbersome part of being at the justice department. he is subject to the same rules i had to live with as a u.s. attorney. this is the same for a special counsel. it can be frustratingly slow, but when you have had some of the smartest legal minds in the country looking at your strategy, chewing on the decisions he makes about how to handle his case after this devastating supreme court decision, he will come out on the other end with a great
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strategy that is anticipating all of the potential problems nt of the government's case to move forward. >> that is something i had posted on social myself, this idea that jack smith is gaming out all the different permutations of what could happen if he took this particular position versus maybe this one versus another one, and the idea is, the ramifications of this immunity really do not just affect one job for the special counsel. this actually implicates other positions and roles that the doj so that is why there is some measure of buy-and from other positions at doj and why it does take time to make sure that if smith pushes fort wood -- forward a definitive position on these issues that it is going to survive, hopefully, appeals. >> that is exactly right. here is a really great example,
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the fourth count in smith's indictment involves the statute that the civil rights division uses routinely, criminal denial of civil rights law. they will want to make sure that the positions that smith takes in his case don't do anything to impair the ability of the civil rights division to prosecute other crimes, so you really do have to do this high- level coordination and hanging over everything here is this terrible supreme court decision, and the solicitor general will undoubtedly want to give the court the opportunity to walk it back a little bit on their second outing with it, perhaps to narrow the scope of the court conduct that gets immunity to expand this middle bucket of conduct that is presumptively immune, but where the government can overcome that immunity, so there is a lot of legal strategy that has to go into this before smith walks back into court and takes these positions. >> you know, let's shift our focus a little bit to the west.
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let's go to arizona and talk about jenna ellis, yet another guilty plea from jenna ellis but there is a distinction with a difference. it's not a guilty plea, it's a cooperation agreement. in exchange, she gets all pending charges dismissed against her but there seems to be a little more teeth to this particular cooperation agreement than one that we saw in fulton county. how important is somebody like jenna ellis when it comes to prosecuting that fake electro scheme in arizona and other jurisdictions, because according to her agreement, ellis has to actually produce herself to answer questions in any jurisdiction. there were no limitations in that agreement. >> the short answer is, we don't know for sure how valuable of a witness jenna ellis is, but arizona's attorney general thinks that she is valuable because this is a real sweetheart deal and as you say, it does have some teeth in it. she loses her deal if she is not fully truthful with prosecutors, and there is that
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interesting cooperation provision. i don't want to read too much into that one because that was boilerplate language that i put into every cooperation agreement i ever signed off on, that the cooperating defendant, now a witness, had to be fully cooperative in all state and federal proceedings and it might just be boilerplate but could also signpost the fact that she could have information of interest to federal prosecutors. >> the fact that there are several fake electro scheme prosecutions or investigations ongoing across the united states could signal that jenna ellis has some value. she did give multiple proffers /interviews under oath that were recorded. that was another part of her cooperation agreement wherein she attested and confirmed that everything she gave in those interviews to the attorney general's office was correct. how do you then reconcile that with the idea the grand jurors wanted to indict donald trump, but the ag's office during the
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course of their prosecution and investigation opted not to charge donald trump with any crimes? >> right. that is an interesting development. we don't usually publicly hear reports like this from grand juries and i think it is intriguing. they are a good strategic reasons in arizona where they might want to see why jenna ellis would want to cooperate. it might be there were timing reasons they believed involving trump in the case originally could have delayed prosecution of this case is moving very quickly, so we don't know what was on prosecutors' minds here, but the reality is if these cases go to trial, there will be evidence about donald trump in the cases, whether he is a defendant or not, and
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prosecutors frequently take evidence from one case, and use it to create the next level up. >> let's not sleep on those fake elected or cases. sometimes we all get so focused on the federal cases and even fulton county and there are some big dates coming up for all of these cases but these fake electro scheme cases are still going strong. joyce vance, thank you for being with us and making us smarter. i always appreciate you. >> thanks, katie. coming up next, democracy in danger. there is a growing grassroots efforts among maga checks most extreme to create doubts about decision 2024 at the local level and fight naacp is urging the department of justice to investigate it. we are going to break all that down coming up next. down coming up next. an) c'mon 'n ♪ (man) yes!
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>> i don't know if you have heard but the georgia state election board is in a very positive way. this is a very positive thing. they are on fire. they are doing a great job. three members, janice johnson, rick jeffries and janel king, three people. are all temples fighting for honesty, transparency and victory. >> that was donald trump last weekend in atlanta, georgia praising the three republican members of georgia state board of elections who pushed through a new rule that empowers local county election board members to conduct a quote, reasonable inquiry into whether election results are accurate before
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they officially certify them. this rule was passed just a few months before the november election and these three local republican officials had given donald trump yet another tool to attempt to subvert the people's will once again. joining me now, cliff albright, cofounder and executive director of the black voters matter fund. this is important. there is so much stuff going on and i feel like things like this happening in georgia fly below the radar sometimes so not only did those three board members approve this rule but it was intentional that they left the reasonable inquiry open to interpretation, right? >> yes, that was definitely intentional and thanks for having me, and i have to take a step back because some may recall back in 2021 when georgia proposed this bill although a lot of other provisions got attention like the ban on food and water and other bands we said that the most dangerous provision at that time was likely the changes to the states board of elections in their ability to take over other local county level board of elections.
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three years later, no less than 90 days before the election we are seeing that take place and it is very intentional. he named those three board members that were recently appointed. he named them by name, which you know, is strange. he doesn't praise anybody at his rallies besides himself. he doesn't praise his own children, he can barely remember their names but he remembered these names and gave them praise so it's very clear there is a coordinated effort going on. this is a part of their plan to take over the state boards and try to control local boards. they have even opened up an investigation into fulton county, reopened an investigation that had been closed years ago but they decided to reopen it again. this is an omen that they may be trying to take over the fulton county board of elections . >> the same board actually held an illegal meeting last month and then a watchdog group had to sue and then they had to backtrack and actually get rid of all the stuff they had done
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at that illegal meeting. what is being done by groups like yours and others to make sure that this type of failure to certify an election, which is a requirement for them to do, by the way, they have to certify these elections, if there is a challenge, that is what the legal system is for and we saw how that failed for trump after 2020 but what are you guys trying to do to protect voters in the value of their vote? >> the first step is to raise awareness about it so we are thankful for people like you who are actually covering the story. it is also to raise awareness around some of the other things they're trying to do so will try to have secret meetings to step in and raise awareness, to also raise awareness about some of the other things they're doing like the website they have that now makes it easier for people to come in and cancel your registration.
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that is actually an action taken by the secretary of state, not this board but the most important thing is seeking legal redress. we have sued the state of georgia on multiple occasions and won several times and that's what is going to take. one concern is what they maybe hoping for is that this just works its way through the courts, that they find a political court like the georgia supreme court for the federal supreme court as we all know for the land. we could be looking at a redo of florida in the year 2000 if it comes down to that but as you said, the way they have done these, they try to do things in secret. they have used ambiguous language, language that we think was designed to be ambiguous specifically so that they can slow down the process at the end of the day. the concern is that the state would not be able to certify and the whole election would be thrown to the supreme court or thrown to congress. >> you know, we like to highlight the problems as you know but we like to bring
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solutions. isn't the answer then, and i understand there are legal challenges that can be pursued, but isn't the answer than having an overwhelming turnout of voters that vote for democracy and vote for the right candidate so that it illuminates that small margin of maybe 11,000 votes? it eliminates the idea that there was only a small margin of victory and that is one surefire way of making sure that there cannot be a challenge to democracy? >> thank you so much, that is exactly what we and the other amazing organizations here in the state are trying to do to let people know what is at stake to create a wave of i will say blue or red, but it wave of people who believe in and support democracy and support elections which could be the election that decides whether or not there are any other elections so to get that massive wave come to get that
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turnout is exactly the kind of work we are doing and it starts with informing folks about what is at stake and what their power is. >> i will say this. right now as we look at the democratic party and look at the republican party, it is the blue wave. it is the blue party. that is the one that's going to be defending democracy. thanks for being here and we will definitely continue to highlight these stories on these issues but i appreciate you lending more insight to them now. thanks. >> thank you. coming up, struggling to survive. there are new details about israel's early-morning strike that reportedly killed at least 80 palestinians praying in a gaza city school's calls for a cease-fire grow louder, enclosing from vice president kamala harris. that's next. s. with up to zero wet feel and odor. so i'm not just dry, i'm jump squats level dry. we've got you, always. always discreet.
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♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ it has been nearly two weeks since maduro declared himself the winner in venezuela's election. this comes amid reports the venezuelan government acting under maduro's controller doubled down on detention of protesters and opposition campaign volunteers, mounting a sweeping campaign to round up everyone who dares to challenge maduro's declared vote tallies
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including a mobile app that allows people to report suspected opposition reporters to maduro's sham government. he says at least 2200 people have been arrested since the protests began and we are going to turn out to the israel hamas war and one of the deadliest attacks in the 10- month war. this morning, an israeli airstrike hit a school turned shelter in gaza city, killing at least 80 people and injuring dozens, according to palestinian health officials. israel defense forces say they were targeting a hamas command center that was embedded within the school. following the strike, hezbollah released a statement claiming that they targeted quote, espionage equipment. this is all coming as president biden and the leaders of qatar
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and egypt are trying to bring israel and hamas back to the negotiating table this thursday to work on a cease-fire proposal. joining me now, aaron david miller, senior fellow at the carnegie endowment for international peace and former state department middle east analyst and negotiator. it's an honor to have you back on the show. president biden and the leaders of egypt and qatar as i just noted urging israel and hamas to return to the negotiating table on august 15th saying in a statement quote, there is no further time to waste, nor excuses from any party for further delay but i mean after what happened this morning, what are the chances that an agreement can even be reached? >> thanks for having me. i sat on this show and others that middle east negotiations have two speeds. long, and slow, and the reality is that there are three different clocks operating here. there is the administration clock, understandably pressing and wants to conclude a cease- fire. the cease-fire that would benefit the people of gaza for
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sure, the hostages, hostage release and their families. the other two clocks on part of the two main decision-makers, netanyahu on one hand and the head of hamas who is making decisions belowground somewhere surrounded by hostages, those clocks are running much more slowly so the real question i think is this, whether or not we have reached the point where there is some value for both leaders for signing onto this agreement. the other complicating fact is we are in the midst and waiting for either an iranian or hezbollah response against the israelis for the two assassinations, one in beirut and one in tehran that could be unbelievably complicating.
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i think there is a reasonable chance that by the end of august you could see an agreement probably only for phase one, limited exchange of hostages for asymmetrical numbers of palestinians in a six-week cease-fire. if you could get that maybe you could build on it and think about ending the war in gaza. >> let's talk about that new head of hamas' political office, sinwar. he has been in gaza running everything since 2017. he is one of the claimed architects of the horrific october 7th attack. the fact that he is now the full head of hamas, does that send a message though globally about how hamas will remain entrenched in its mission to destroy israel? >> i think you have broken the code here. i think the elevation of sinwar confirms two things. number one, he has been making decisions all along and number two, he is extremely supportive of a hamas-iranian connection. the other reality for sinwar is he must understand that once he releases the hostages , both
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those who are alive and those who tragically have died, either killed on october 7, their bodies taken back to gaza where they died in captivity, that his time is up. the israelis have a list, just as they did in the wake of munich and they are checking off that list one by one, so sinwar really has no stake right now and going for a complete cessation of hostilities, and that is a significant problems in terms of even the first phase of this deal. >> also there are critics that we hear loud and clearly are about israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu himself. they are accusing him of having a desire to prolong the war and actually evade concluding any type of substantive cease-fire negotiations. do you think there is any substance to those criticisms?
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>> i think the criticism is right on the money. the polls in israel reflected. this is a man whose entire world is defined basically by staying in power because if he doesn't, he's on trial for robbery, fraud, and breach of trust in district court before three judges now four-four- years and counting. if he gets convicted he could see the end of his political career, so his clock, like sinwar's, is running slowly. i still think though , that we have a better chance than ever now, to at least get through phase one. if we could do that it would be a minor miracle, and maybe a chance for further progress. >> are there any lessons that we could learn to get a cease- fire in the return of hostages from the recent prisoner swap we saw happen with russia? >> i would like to think that
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one in fact contains valuable lessons for the other, but the reality is, this has been a conflict in which netanyahu and sinwar have set the terms, the trajectory, the objectives and tactics and it is a demonstration. 11 months and we begin the 11th month of this war, that the influence of outside parties in a conflict for both sides that seems to be existential, is very limited. i still close on an optimistic note. i think it is possible to imagine the beginning of the cessation of hostilities. >> i want to share your optimism and i want to pray for peace and hopefully i want all of the hostages to come home. thank you for being with us today and sharing your insight, as always.
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i want to thank all of you for joining us today as always. catch me back here next saturday afternoon. follow us on social media. listen to every episode of the katie phang show is a podcast for free. scan the qr code on your screen.
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