on this new hour of "ayman", harris/walz campaign campaigning while trent stayed home. targeting a different battleground, my panel is here to discuss. employers are dropping like flies as one former attorney cuts a deal in arizona. will she turn on her maga allies? >> recount j.d. vance is, dare i say, really weird week. why he is receiving the wrong attention. i'm charles coleman in for

ayman mohyeldin and we have a lot to talk about so let's get to it. within the last hour, vice president kamala harris touched down in nevada and set to speak soon at our rally in las vegas, she and her running mate, tim walz, crisscrossed the country beginning with a key battleground state. less than 90 days until election day, this is the typical grinding travel schedule of a competitive presidential campaign. donald trump, on the other hand, was mostly at home at his florida country club. when he did emerge, it was to give a rambling press conference on thursday and for a friday campaign stop in the non- battleground state of montana. it is unclear what the trump campaign is thinking. it could be laziness or it may be lack of stamina, after all, donald

trump is now the oldest presidential nominee in u.s. history. whatever donald trump's excuses for not visiting a single battleground state this week, there's one battleground the maga movement is unquestionably fiercely targeting that we have to pay close attention to, that battleground is not necessarily the swing states themselves, local election offices in key swing states. rolling stone magazine identified 70 pro-trump election conspiracists, i love that word, currently working as county election officials who have questioned the validity of elections or delayed to certify results in six key battleground states, 20 of them have refused or delayed certification in recent years. meanwhile, in the critical state of georgia, the republican controlled state board voted 3-2 this week to give local election officials significant new powers over the certification of election results this will give local election officials more power to delay or derail postal election certification processes

. this was music to donald trump's ears, less of a need to campaign when you can get election deniers to work in county election offices. he had been cheering on the three officials who approved of change in georgia, calling them, pit bulls for fighting for honesty. remember, local certification of election results was once a routine, ministerial process. after losing the 2020 boat, donald trump and his allies sought to block the process in states or precincts that he lost. now, he appears even more focused on this by having people in local election offices who might be willing to do his dirty work. here to help me unpack all of this, i have an amazing panel, political reporter for the atlanta journal-constitution and msnbc contributor, another msnbc political analyst's, former republican congressman from florida. also msnbc political analyst. greg, we will stop -- start

with you, talk to me about the significance of the new law in georgia . >> on its face, it calls for reasonable inquiry, that does not seem too objectionable. it does not define what reasonable inquiry is so that can give republican election board minutes all over the state, 159 counties in georgia, give them a pretext to not certify elections. we have seen it happen this year and last year. those were quickly overturned and in each case, they were overridden by the board majority. there is a worry that if there is a statewide push to call for reasonable inquiry after the president's election, it would be thrown to the courts before that november 22nd certification deadline in georgia. >> brittany, i will ask the obvious question, is the trump campaign setting up plan b in

terms of an apparatus that may be able to challenge the results in november if the outcome is not to their liking? >> i don't think that is plan b, i think it is plan a, that has been the plan since before january 6th became a distinct moment in history, these are folks that when they first, when trump first lost, got along with election denying, tried to intimidate poll workers and election certifiers in the battleground states, georgia in particular, to get them to go along with his plan. he is starting far earlier to make sure he can steal the selection because he wanted to be the country's last election. i don't think it is plan b, i think it is plan a and his plan is to not necessarily even try to win, as he mentioned, he has not been spending time in battleground states, not spending time over the last three weeks campaigning at all. it could be because a very

smart, capable, accomplished black and south asian woman is at the top of the ticket and is a whole lot harder to beat her than somebody he got away with calling old. certainly, stealing the selection, intimidating battleground states out of certifying legitimate election results, this was always going to be part of the plan, he indicated that on january 6th and we should be prepared for it all along. >> grossman, one of the revelations in a new piece run in the new york times, panic in trump world, at a private fundraiser recently, donald trump told donors, we have to stop this deal. reviving his rhetoric about the 2020 election that led to january 6th. the times is also reporting his aides are getting, trying to get him to stop using that rhetoric. this fixation on 2020, what does that tell you about what might be coming, not only on november 5th in 2024, possibly november 6th?

>> all we have to do is look back to the 2020 election and the 2022 election in particular. in the 2022 election, republicans had a lot going for them, inflation was high, president biden was not popular, it really did look and a lot of pollsters predicted a big red wave. what happened? donald trump intervened in that campaign, he made sure a lot of the candidates who ran in swing states and swing districts were people aligned with him, what are they talk about? they talked about the 2020 election, they lied about it, they repeated the big lie. what happened to all those people? they all lost. a lot of moral questions here and we can discuss those, politically what this means is donald trump is setting himself up for disappointment again, he is setting himself up to lose a lot of the swing voters that

really get turned off by this rhetoric, that understand the election was not stolen, donald trump challenged it many, many times in the courts and all of the challenges were reviewed and rejected. the more donald trump talks about this, and he really can't help himself, the more he talks about this, the less likely it is he is going to win and he will actually bring together the anti-trump coalition that showed up in 2018 and 2020 and again in 2022. >> britney, you talk about the harris campaign, what i want to ask you is, how much time should that campaign currently spend on highlighting or addressing this plan a, as you described it, to voters, as opposed to simply focusing on their message and giving voters affirmative reason to go to the polls for them? >> i think this campaign has been very quick and smart to help voters focus on the future . we know that voters don't

just want something to vote against, they want something to vote for. being future focused on the economy, on women's reproductive justice, health care, on education and so much more, harris and walz have helped to shift the dynamic of the selection because trump's forward plan is project 2025/ agenda 47, nowhere nearly identical, those two things turned out to be so unpopular, he has been lying to us about who he knows trying to separate himself from that former project. it is clear this focus on the future, the focus on forward momentum and progress has gotten people excited, it has broken fundraising records, it has gotten people out to the rallies and feeling a sense of hope, optimism, and a desire to invest in their future through this campaign and hopefully through this entire administration. clearly, the campaign would be smart to run a parallel pac to run legal

guards on what may happen next. it is important the front facing, public facing approach is really going to continue and support that forward looking momentum and making sure not to distract voters and bring more depression and frustration to the process by spending too much time trump shenanigans, we know that will happen, they will be prepared in the background. we should keep looking ahead. >> ray, doncic is a curious history of aching fights with his states that he needs. we have seen poll numbers go down in wisconsin after making disparaging remark about the city of milwaukee prior to the rnc hosting his party for the national convention. now, he is once again picking a fight with georgia state officials, a fight he lost against brad raffensperger, the former secretary of state, georgia being a state he needs a flip back red, i need to understand, what is the political calculus, if there is any and why does donald trump continue to do this in jurisdictions where he needs the actual vote in order to

win? >> i don't know if there is a political calculus, a week ago in atlanta, donald trump went after not after brad raffensperger and governor brian kemp, it opened up old wounds that republicans thought were healed. governor kemp extended an olive branch to donald trump's campaign and two maga officials in georgia, we all need to be on the same page. donald trump reopen that fissure and there are republicans in georgia openly saying that donald trump have lost the state, not just because of the emergence of vice president kamala harris as the top of the ticket energizing democrats and also the crucial block of swing voters that is still really up for grabs, donald trump going after the most popular republican in the state of georgia, setting up all sort of alarm bells within the gop of my state . >> continuing on that point, congressman, i will give you the last word, i'm curious

about the down ballot, how this plays out among republicans looking to retain or regain house seats that were lost, that they lost or up for grabs, what is the feeling and sentiment among those candidates in purple district who cannot afford to be election deniers, who have to toe the line in order to get the votes, what type of position donald trump is putting them in? >> in a lot of ways, it is 2022 all over again, republicans thought they were poised to make gains. this year, a lot of republic -- republicans think they can grow the majority, confident about winning the senate. donald trump is his own worst enemy, because he is his own worst enemy, he is the worst enemy of the republican party when he starts talking about these things, promoting the big lie attacking other republicans in the middle of a campaign. president biden's candidacy was flawed, that was masking the fact that donald trump is one of and has been consistently

one of the weakest presidential candidates of all time. if you look at his approval numbers, if you look at how people react to him, he is not a strong candidate. now that president biden is out of the picture and the democratic base is energized, i think this is being unmasked again and we are seeing how flawed donald trump is and how he is a threat to the republican party because he is actually now hurting their chances of making any gains this cycle. regardless of what happens with the presidency. >> brittany, current civil rights attorney and former prosecutor, talking to someone who is obviously well-versed in movement spaces and organization, yesterday, the 10th anniversary of the killing of michael brown, how important is it for the harris campaign to affirmatively address issues related to police violence and criminal justice as they are out on the campaign trail? i heard you talk a lot of issues they were not talking

about that i did not hear that, when does that come into the conversation? >> i think it has already started to become a part of the conversation, if you look at vice president harris' statement after the police killing of sonya massey a few weeks ago, she not only expressed grief and frustration that this keeps happening, but reminded us of her work on the george floyd justice in policing act, that still needs to pass congress. and wanted to be able to use her position both now and hopefully in the future to help make that happen. when she was in the senate and working on that bill, she called me, lots of other movement organizers, activists, researchers, to really try to get into the details of the bill and make sure it is worth something that would have real impact. to have everything we want? no. there were lots of hands on the bill before it got to its final state. i believe she is clear there needs to be forward movement on

that. i think she is very clear that unlike some other folks, namely in the gop, black people care about a whole lot of issues, not just the reform of the criminal legal system. you have one candidate saying that him having 34 felonies will make them very popular with people and you've got an actually black candidate saying yes, we care about what happens in the criminal legal system, we care about the value lack life, especially at the hands of police. we also care about reproductive justice, we also care about the economy, we recognize that america has a cold, we have the flu. the harris and walz campaign has an expert job making sure they are applying these various issues to the many diverse communities who have found themselves invested in this campaign. >> i don't know if you heard her say, she called me, you better flex it what you mean it. greg bluestein, thank you for being here, brittany and carlos

sticking around for the rest of the week. why ex trump attorney takes a plea deal in arizona. what that could mean for the former president. we are back with more "ayman", stay tuned. fo for a total value of twelve hundred and fifty dollars. only on verizon. (jalen hurts) see you sunday! meet the jennifers. jen x. jen y. and jen z. each planning their future through the chase mobile app. jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z?

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this week, some bad news for donald trump, after taking a plea deal in the georgia election interference case last year, former trump attorney jenna ellis agreed to another plea deal, this time in the arizona fake electors case, which she initially pleaded not guilty. now her charges are being dropped and in exchange, ellis agreed to provide, quote, truthful, honest, candid, and complete testimony including all criminal activity known to her. she could also be called to testify against other members of the trump orbit like rudy giuliani and mark meadows, which could be huge. ellis is censured for making

false statements about the 2020 election and barred from practicing law in colorado for the next three years. she admits that she made false claims with a, quote, reckless state of mind and selfish motive. keep in mind, ellis is one acts trump attorney paying the price for her work with the former president. the people you see on the graphic before you, they are some of the lawyers that faced legal consequences for doing trump's dirty work. i have often said that maga stands for, my attorney got arrested, folks, there it is. with us now is my friend and superlawyer, danny cevallos, legal analyst and criminal defense attorney. danny, i have been waiting to take my glasses off to talk to another attorney, i knew you were coming. thank you for coming. when you look at the implications of jenna ellis essentially making a cooperation deal in arizona, what does that tell you about

the future of that case and how significant is that? >> jenna ellis is a classic cooperating witness, she fits the profile. she is somebody in the periphery of the bad guy, not one of the main bad guys, she is somebody with a lot to lose. prosecutors probably had her on their list of people they expected with plead guilty and cooperate. here is what you can infer, she came in, she did a proffer, in arizona they call it a free talk, you bring your client in, they bear their soul, they tell the prosecutors everything they know, the prosecutors are shopping, deciding whether or not, is this information we want to pay for, by pay for, i don't mean money, pay with leniency. they paid her with quite a bit of leniency, their dropping charges entirely. you know it is really rare for cooperating witness to completely escape criminal liability. in the federal system, almost a

standard that someone has to take responsibility, plead guilty to something, then you hold off their sentencing until they testify at trial and they deliver the goods and make the prosecutors happy. to get all charges dropped means that whatever she told prosecutors, they wanted to buy it. >> as a former prosecutor, i can tell you that process in brooklyn was named, queen for a day, they would tell you every day, maybe you make a deal. this deal that alice has struck is different from the one or the plea deal in georgia because this one requires her to give up all information about criminal activity. we talked a lot about donald trump, if you're any of the co- defenders, co-defendants remaining on the indictment in georgia, how much does a deal like this concern you and their attorneys? >> this is a harrowing mama in any multi-co-defendant, co- conspiracy case. when you have one of many defendants and one

or two of them starts flipping, you get really nervous because the government does not have endless bag of goodies. if you're the last one in line, the deal that you're going to get by offering to plead guilty will not be nearly as good as the deal the first person who pleads guilty gets. it is the law of diminishing returns. the other co-defendants in the case, it is a nerve-racking moment, one that one co- defendant decided to cooperate because you know that person will get on the stand, this is the criminal defense attorney in me talking, forgive me, cooperating witnesses are there to please prosecutors and give them a good show. they have to tell the truth, prosecutors insist they tell the truth or they don't get any benefit. there is an incentive to make everybody else among the co- defendants look really, really bad. >> juries love a good show. i want to switch gears and ask about former mayor of new york, mayor giuliani, rudy

giuliani recently was trying to get out of the significant civil penalties levied against him for the remarks and public statements he made about ruby freeman and shaye moss. essentially, the bankruptcy application that he has made was basically denied and that clears the pathway for shaye moss and ruby freeman both, to go after, as creditors, the portion of the judgment against rudy giuliani that they are owed. can you talk about your reaction to this? is it really likely they will ever get their money recovered, or at least a portion of it, does this ruling give you any hope? >> no, it is not likely they will collect on that. even someone like rudy giuliani, frankly, the vast majority of people in america simply don't have that kind of liquid. i'm talking about people like elon musk, donald trump, they are people that can reach into their pocket and pay a judgment

of that amount, over $100 million for a defamation case. someone like rudy giuliani, especially given the reports he is in financial straits, isn't ever going to have that kind of liquid, even less likely now, for example, no longer permitted to practice law. as much as you would like to see defamation plaintiff's get paid, this is not a likely case. bankruptcy or not, it does not matter, you can't get water from the stone. as you know, for the most part, when you see people, you ordinarily go after somebody really, really rich, there are a dozen of those people around. or you go after somebody with a large insurance policy. unfortunately, for defamation, insurance companies do not write insurance policies for defamation, they write them for car accident, not defamation. rudy is on the hook, on his own, not likely to have that kind of liquid. unfortunately, for these plaintiffs, they may not collect on much, if anything.

>> before we get out of here, things like donald trump's strategy of delay, delay, delay, has worked, even as things ramp up again with the federal election case in d.c., it seems like for the immediate future, his legal troubles are behind him. do you agree with that assessment or do you think his attorneys should be churning at the computers, if you will, to get paperwork out to keep the delay up? >> i would super agree with that statement because delay, donald trump did not invent delay as criminal defense strategy. i say it again, as you know yourself, delay usually the benefit of the criminal defendant. there are exceptions to that rule, as a general rule, witnesses disappear, memories fade, in the case of donald trump, unlike any other defendant in american history, if you delay long enough, you might be president again and make your federal cases go away.

yes, delay has worked very much to donald trump benefit. the state cases, delay has work, they have been around long enough, the supreme court issued immunity decision that could threaten portions if not all of, the new york and georgia case. the georgia case, they're shooting themselves in the foot, figuratively, they can't seem to get it going down in georgia. georgia has a real problem getting cases to trial on time eight or nine months for high profile jury selection. georgia has its own problems, new york, even though the conviction is done and in the books, could be re-examined and even that might be in jeopardy . >> msnbc legal commentator, superlawyer, and my friend, danny cevallos, thank you for helping me take the glasses off. coming up next, black men are making is that the grassroots level ahead of november with the help of civil rights activist phil agnew. we will talk to him about the new black men tour, what black men build, on the other side of

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welcome back. during this election cycle, there's been one thing people have not been shy about bringing up, it is the blackmail vote. it has been of huge interest to me, especially study after study shows this demographic losing faith in politicians, i've been reporting on this and why it is so important for the better part of this election season, yes, the new harris/walz ticket has massive opportunity to address the core issues to court black male voters specifically. one thing not discussed is the effort being made by black men to engage with peers about their civic duties or responsibilities. i want to talk about that with one particular grassroots organization doing the work

called, black men build. they are creating safe spaces for black men to talk about the challenges and injustices they face every day. joining me to talk about that is my friend, phil agnew, the codirector black men build, civil rights activist who is the founder of dream defenders. given your history and space of organizing and movement, what was it that drove you to start this organization? >>, cofounder, you can't give me all the credit. i work with a collective people and we started the organization based on the realization that black men needed a political home, a place where we could come and learn, talk and be educated, where we could organize ourselves into a powerful political force that was there the organization because we realized in 2020 as the world was burning, black men, brothers, myself, needed spaces where we could come and talk. we are on a tour right now around the country engaging in men's circles, we believe it is

important part of the political process to talk about how the issues of the day are affecting us, how we move, move with our partners and immunity. we started the organization with twofold purpose, to be of political home and home of deep personal transformation. we think that is the way to get to some sort of political power for our people and black people, black men in particular. >> as you are on the tour and having conversations with black men, what are things in common your hearing going from city to city from the brothers you are talking to? >> brothers are educated. you talked about it in the run- up, there are stories about lachman not educated, moving, sitting at home, numbed out, those are not the black men we are seeing every day in new orleans, raleigh, detroit, where we are right now. black men are engaged and concerned about housing, ensuring that we have adequate housing and places to live,

concerned about education, concerned about our families, the health of our families, concerned about her sisters, maternal mortality, concerned about the quality of our governments use of bombs across the world, wondering about the things that affect us domestically and internationally. we are hearing, tired of being talked to, we want to be listened to, we want platforms, we want the democratic party that says it there for us, to actually represent the views of lack people and not just a small segment of them. >> i've been having that conversation and eating that drum as long as i can remember, how do you, in this role, serves the conduit upwards to the harris/walz campaign, or for example, the trump/vance campaign if they are willing to listen or interested in the countries of black men,

indicating everything you just said and horizontally, to the brothers you're also speaking with, to inform them of the actual discussions you are having at higher levels? >> currently, how we do our work, we are not in communication with either one of the campaigns in our work and the work we have been doing, ensuring that brothers across the country, on this tour know their true power. they understand the issues of the day and being organized is the best way to advance our political agenda. we are not talking up right now, we are talking across, making sure that brothers know about local issues affecting them locally because all politics is local. not just national issues at the forefront, we are talking about the local sheriff races, the school district races, the congress races going across the state in california or pennsylvania, michigan, or wisconsin. we are ensuring that brothers know to be a powerful, political force, we cannot throw our votes away. we need to ensure we know what the

people stand for, with the campaigns are going to do for us and what they have done for us. we have been in four years, talking and engaging with brothers four years, if your johnny-come-lately, we know that and recognize that and we want to see more and deserve more, that requires we moved as an organized force . >> drawn from your experience in movement spaces and respect to organization, always a conversation of outcome versus impact, for other people watching you and interested in this work, how do you inform or advise them to think about what success looks like if they are in their city trying to generate the same kind of impact you all are having with respect to this tour? >> it is all about relationships. organizing is all about the depth of the trust of the relationships that you have. people already know, i know when you knock on my door and i've not seen you, have not seen what you have done, you have nothing that reflects on

your platform that reflects my daily life, we don't resonate. for us, the only thing i can say you have to be able to put in the work and labor of love to build relationships and trust with us, our brothers and sisters. this is not a transactional thing, it's your time to do something in the next few months, i don't know what you will be able to do unless you have a very compelling platform that reflects the issues i've been talking about, housing, education, medical care. what is happening international, we care about what is going on in gaza and we care about chicago. for me, it is about partnering with organizations that have relationships that have built the trust, going around listening, not talking at really have developed rapport with our people, that you can't get by throwing money in september and october. >> phillip agnew, always good when a viper talks to a rattler. appreciate you being here, thanks for your work, keep it up. please check out, my documentary pulitzer prize-winning and emmy award-winning msnbc correspondent trymaine lee, it is called, black men in america

road to 2024 and currently streaming on peacock, msnbc.com, and the nbc app. next up, time for worst of the week, the only nominee this time is j.d. vance because he had a really weird week. we will talk about it on the other side of the break with more "ayman". stay tuned. (vo) trade in any phone, in any condition. guaranteed at verizon. and get $800 off the new galaxy z fold6. only on verizon.

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week. this time around, it is literally no contest, j.d. vance has taken the cake to be at best, what could be called awkward. hillbilly elegy author, who somehow evolved into trump's right-hand man is besieged with collapsing poll numbers and a stack of bad headlines. while democrats paint it all as we are, vance is doing exactly what donald trump would do, doubling down. the bizarreness began on wednesday when vance and the vice president converts at the same wisconsin airport at the same time, vance appeared to want to confront harris and made a very awkward show of it, leaving his plane and walking over to hers with a posse. vance ultimately walked back, also very awkwardly, telling reporters who were traveling with him that he was there to, quote, check out my future plane. on a scale of one to 10, with

respect to cringe, vance hit an 11 and posted a photo later that day of him and his posse walking in front of air force 2, his caption, this entourage reboot will be awesome. where i'm from, that is called goofy. having watched entourage itself, someone might want to tell vance, he is more johnny drama than he is vented chase. things only got more awkward later that day when vance was asked this by a reporter, take a listen. >> reporter: there's an old saying in politics, what can swing undecided voters in a place like wisconsin, whether you seem like someone they would want to have a beer with, why would someone in wisconsin want to have a beer with you? >> i guess they would want to have a beer with me because i actually do like to drink beer. i probably like to drink beer a little too much. >> bro, that is not the answer. vance gave an even stranger

answer by fumbling left and right at a truly, truly softball question. roll them. >> reporter: criticized to be angry and serious, what mix you smile, what makes you happy? >> i smile at a lot of things, including bogus questions from the media, man. >> roll, who is coaching this vp one of the? ron desantis? listen, that is all good and fun and goofy but this is not. this week, for some reason, vance thought it was a good idea to go after the military service of harris ' vice presidential running mate, minnesota governor tim wall. boston honorably served 24 years in the national guard but vance accused wall street of stolen valor, which is a very serious accusation, retiring from the military before his unit was deployed to iraq.

what vance did not mention, of course he didn't, walz retired two months before his unit was alerted about his deployments. you don't have to be political strategist to exercise common sense, anyone would assume a candidate struggling to connect with voters will work overtime to appeal the voters, after all, that is his -- how you win politics, that is the whole thing. aside from taking on the persona of the man he is running against, why is j.d. vance choosing to come in? my panel is coming back after the break to discuss that, why some of the most toxic masculinity traits are so prevalent in donald trump's republican party. for a total value of twelve hundred and fifty dollars. only on verizon. (jalen hurts) see you sunday! why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i need help with her snoring. sleep number does that.

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we are back with our worst of the week, before the break, we talked about why j.d. vance made this a no contest. my panel, brittany and congressman carlos are back to hash it out. brittany, i will start with you, the bazaar stunt he pulled outside air force 2 in wisconsin, the only thing missing is theme music from macho man randy savage going to the ring because it appears as though, that was the basis for all of this to look like some sort of tough guy. what are your thoughts on it in terms of outward perception? to me, it looked goofy, goofy, goofy. >> you think the macho man theme song, i think of the curb

your enthusiasm theme song is more appropriate, that is how silly this was. j.d. vance is not a person of substance, he is someone who built a career off of talking about how he made it out of appalachia and tied himself to a community that he then wrote a book about in order to insult those same people. he clearly is not someone who has any principles to stand on because he has been extremely critical of donald trump, that is of course, until he got made his vp pick. why did we need a second vp pick for trump even though he was president before? that's right, trump's acolytes try to lunch former vp mike pence on the lawn january 6th. we are not talking about a cracker jack team here and i'm not surprised at all that j.d. thought this stunt would work well, just like he thought that hillbilly elegy would play well

in the community he insulted in that book. i'm never surprised by him being silly, i think it is fascinating as that plane rolls in, he goes over to the media, i thought you guys might be lonely because the vice president does not stop to talk to you all. meanwhile, i believe she was talking to a girl scout troop, who doesn't love a girl scout? once again, the tactics and tricks, the games are tired that her play, i'm very glad the american public is seen for what it is and what it is right away. >> congressman, you are in florida, you have to take some heat here as a former member who is a republican, j.d. vance has one job, essentially, don't screw up and try to appeal to as many people as he can on behalf of the president. yet and still, we see very much so in the fashion of your governor, ron desantis, he continues to blow it. how can it be that the president

, the former president chooses someone that seems to be so inept at the little things, when thrown a softball question, for example, about beer and drinking beer, this is what we get? >> charles, because the number one quality for donald trump is that someone be absolutely loyal to him. that is all he cares about. everything else is secondary, there were other candidates donald trump could have chosen to be his running mate, who would have renovated him politically, that would have helped him grow the tent, appeal to more people. the reason he chose j.d. vance is because he believes j.d. vance is going to be absolutely loyal to him under any circumstances. another reason he chose j.d. vance is because his sons told him he had to choose j.d. vance because they believe he is someone that they can control, who will be loyal to the family under all circumstances. this is what

happens. this is what happens, now donald trump has a running mate who isn't adding to the ticket, who isn't helping him gain support from people like nikki haley voters, who work clearly still skeptical of him, from hispanic voters, african american voters, he doubled down on maga because he wanted someone that would be loyal to him under any circumstance. j.d. vance said, i don't know if we will accept the election results, i don't know what happened in 2020. why? because that is what donald trump wants to hear. >> brittany, one of the words that come to mind trying to think of words to describe j.d. vance, obviously is goofy, for me, thirsty. he seems really thirsty for public approval, public attention, obviously the affections of donald trump, how would you comment on that as a descriptor for j.d. vance or do you have another one you like to throw out

there? >> i think that is accurate, this is what happens when we pierce the facade of toxic masculinity. when an entire party, especially as of late, built their persona under your point earlier, being macho man, gun- toting, eagle loving, beer guzzling, although apparently, we don't really know if he likes beer or not. kind of men. then along comes a different vp contender in tim walz, the governor of minnesota who owns guns, likes to hunt, is athletic, coached the football team, and yet, is also compassionate and thoughtful, inclusive, and open. he has come along and completely pierced that particular image. now, people like j.d. vance and donald trump are made more thirsty and desperate and more ridiculous than they were before. >> brittany packnett cunningham and carlos curbelo, thank you both for being here and thank

you at home for making time with us. we will see you back here tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. eastern. i want to thank ayman mohyeldin , him and his team for making my job so easy. have a great night. (vo) they're back! verizon small business days are here. august 5th to the 11th. get a free tech check. and special offers. like a free 5g phone, when you switch. don't miss out. get started today. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door.

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