>> no time-outs here. joe hana is up ahead. it's william, that was a two, they make it in! a two ball, and the united states is going to claim gold for the eighth consecutive olympics! what a finish! williams with her foot on the line! >> reporter: so when you look at that, people in the crowd thought she had tied the game with a three-pointer and they went insane, but, in fact, she hadn't, she was over the three- point line, it was two points, and the u.s. just eked out that gold medal by making the record eight consecutive gold medals in a row, ali. >> yeah. i candidly thought that they had tied it up in that moment, too. i was watching for my desk sort of writing my nails and watching how the had shaken out. stephanie, thank you for this coverage, all your coverage, we will is love having you. you.

welcome to our reports and we begin with the campaign for the white house. 85 days until election day and eight days until the convention with both contenders spending the weekend campaigning out west. new today we do learn some of the big names expected to speak at the dnc among them president biden, former president obama, former president clinton, and former secretary of state, hilary clinton. vice president harris, meanwhile, taking questions from reporters in arizona yesterday including one on the israel hamas war. >> israel has a right to go after the terrorists that are hamas. as i have said many many times, they also have, i believe, an important responsibility to

avoid civilian casualties. and the president and i have been working around the clock and we need the hostages out and a deal and a cease-fire. i can't stress that strongly enough. it needs to get done and it needs to get done now. >> also today the allies for donald trump and his running mate turning up the heat on the democratic vice president nominee. >> why did the vice president choose a person who lied about their military service? >> if the only thing they can find about him to complain about is to disparage his military record, clearly honorable, remember, you can retire after 20 years and he served for 24 years. >> we do have reporters ready to go over all of these developments and we will start first with julia, who has the latest on the campaign from

delaware. president trump is slamming vice president harris for a remark she made at the las vegas rally last night. what was said and why is trump so upset about it? >> reporter: that he is. they spoke last night in nevada which is a service heavy state with a lot of hospitality and service workers particularly in las vegas ahead of her event and the culinary workers union endorsed her. she spoke directly to the audience with this announcement. >> it is my promise to everybody here when i am president that we will continue our fight for working families of america. and this includes to raise the minimum wage. and eliminate taxes on tips for service and hospitality workers.

>> reporter: former president trump is accusing her of stealing his idea. back in june he was also at a las vegas rally saying he will propose no taxes on tips posting untruths social ", has no imagination whatsoever as shown by the fact as she played copycat with no taxes on tips and the harris campaign said the vice presidents proposal would have to go through congress and include income caps and really strict guidance so hedge funds and lawyers wouldn't take advantage of the policy and in a difference between her and president trump she would push for an increase of the minimum wage with any proposal to eliminate taxes on tips. this is a preview of policies we will see from vice president

harris telling reporters on the way to that event that she is expected to roll out the platform next week and it will be focused on the economy. and we will get a taste of what she is thinking as she makes the first joint appearance with president biden on thursday and the first time we will see the two of them together. that event will be focused on the progress the administration has made on lowering costs for american families. it's an official white house event and not necessarily i campaign event but we will get a chance of looking at how she will be similar or different to the current presidents policies and we will see more as the dnc is coming up and we will see a slate of speakers as you said in the introduction as well as harris sharing those policies on the biggest stage she has had yet. >> that is definitely right. thank you so much. >> and now here jillian and

montana. jd vance took the messaging mantle today for the gop ticket appearing across the sunday shows and what was his focus? >> reporter: jd vance is competing for attention and the former president posting overnight and into the morning touting a $28 million fundraising hall between friday and saturday. we haven't enable you to verify the totals. he also expressed a willingness to participate in three upcoming debates with vice president harris. i want to be clear that this is what he is posting on social media and we're working to confirm these details. he said the first will be september 4 hosted by fox news in pennsylvania and harrisburg, a town he has rallied in multiple times in the second will be september 10 hosted by abc news in philadelphia. this is the only one we know so far that vice president harris has agreed to. the third is on september 25

hosted by nbc news in grand rapids, michigan. again, i do want to be clear that nbc news isn't commenting on the debate or on the former presidents post. overall, the trump campaign strategy has been to criticize vice president harris accusing her of not answering media questions but meanwhile senator vance has been hitting the sunday shows and he has to answer for this weird messaging we are hearing from the campaign. i will hear more from one of these interviews. take a listen. >> i want to move on to something that something governor walz has called you and donald trump, weird. >> they levied that against me more than anything else and it does it distract from their own policy failures. this is fundamentally schoolyard bully stuff and they can accuse me whatever they want to of. i think two people, harris and tim walz are not comfortable

with their policy positions for the american people. they are name-calling instead of actually telling the american people how they will make their lives better and i think that is weird but they can call me whatever they want to. >> reporter: as for the former president, he is taking that just plain weird messaging and throwing it back at harris and tim walz casting them in their policies as far left as we head into the selection. >> there is some irony to talking about how name-calling means they are talking about policy which is something donald trump has been doing for as long as i have been covering him since 2015 and continues with you now as you take that mantle. i want to bring in our national politics reporter for axios, sophia. let's look at this coalition that both sides are trying to build that i want to start with one of your latest articles where you say vice president harris has put north carolina back in play and even the old biden/harris campaign would say they are looking at this closely to see if they could flip it and what you see now

that means they are closer to that goal?'s >> look. this is always been a goal for democrats back to the midterms and 2022, but now that harris is at the top of the ticket, she is really mobilizing the democratic base in a way that is more of a possibility. it still will be an uphill battle because over the past 50 years, people in north carolina have only elected two democratic vice presidential candidates and it will be tough. the harris campaign has already registered 10,000 more volunteers since harris became the top of the ticket. that is very significant in a state where there is younger voters and more of a migration into this state of more democrat leading voters in these are things the harris campaign will be looking at. >> i do want to dig in on the

coalition of young voters that the campaign is trying to create. i want to also talk about another state that sees it shift a bit and a historian famous for his election predictions has pushed georgia into the tossup column and we also saw this week some changes in ratings in nevada and other swing states but what does this tell you about the role of harris and the way the dynamics of changed? >> reporter: i do think in the blue wall states, the harris campaign is going to continue to put a real emphasis in pennsylvania and wisconsin which are states they have really built out and infrastructure of volunteers on the ground. the same cannot be said for the trump campaign. when harris took the top of the ticket, they were able to really feed those new volunteers into this system already built out. their job in the weeks and months ahead is to really continue that momentum with tim

walz, the vice presidential announcement and the dnc next month and then shortly after that will be the first mail-in ballots mailed into voters. there is kind of a big runway and a lot of opportunity for the campaign to continue that momentum and that will be key for them. >> it does start happening really quickly. and i want to circle back about what you said about young voters because this is a group that president biden when the nominee was struggling with. we saw kamala harris leveraging that group of voters and merging pop culture and politics and we will do this later in the show but what is the upshot of her efforts? and is it helping? >> reporter: look, we have somebody like this man popular with young voters saying that harris is a brat, the name of her new album and that is huge and there are some young voters learning about her becoming the top of the ticket from somebody like him and that concerns

trump quite a bit. trump has always seen himself as the person that celebrity culture has obsessed about. and now with harris entering the play, there are concerns that it puts them on defense and that is why you see trump and vance going on podcasts like the milk boys and trump doing an interview with a streamer. he really feels the heat and need to continue to appeal the young voters even before harris was at the top of the ticket with trump flipping his position on the tick-tock ban and they joined tiktok and they make up 20% of the electorate and there is an additional 8.4 million young voters newly legible to vote this year and all of that will be extremely important as we look at the next few months. >> thank you for joining us, sophia. >> coming up next scott it is being called the worst three weeks of donald trump's campaign and what is fueling

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we'll keep repairing. if i am the democrats, i am not spiking the football yet. the job isn't done. we have to bring this home in november. i think there is a lot of energy and people call this the honeymoon page -- phase and i don't think people have been dumb christ -- energizing a long time.

if you are an independent or undecided or not energized for something in a long time. >> this radio host adjusting his assessment after previously saying there was no maine character energy at the top of the democratic ticket. joining me now to discuss this is the head of this organization and as well as the former executive committee member and former gop congressional candidate and cofounder of the lincoln project. is charlemagne right and is the harris phenomenon extend beyond democrats to undecided and independence? >> i think so. one of the biggest complaints they had over this cycle before joe biden stepped down was that this is the same thing they did in 2020 and i want new candidates and something new and they did get that in vice president harris becoming the nominee for the democrats. i think people are just excited. you can see the crowd sizes at the rallies she is doing and

even in personal conversations with friends and those who don't follow politics closely, they are very excited. i do think regardless of what party people fall under, you will see people continuing to want to learn more. and that contrasted with what we see coming out of the trump vance ticket and i think people are happy to be excited. as she rolls out the policy platform and people are more about her, that will continue to grow. >> we do know that crowd size has mattered to the former president and we have seen vice president harris play up the crowd sizes and that has unnerved the former president and he is even falsely claiming online that these are ai generated and is this trolling or is this the fact that trump needs to face? >> there is no question that he needs to face this at some time. what we learned from the work we did in 2020 is the best way to get trump off of his game is to trigger his narcissism and

his misogyny. the genuine mental instabilities that he has. kamala harris has been able to do that by going out there and being herself. he is so disturbed by the idea that a woman of color has the nerve to be getting the kind of, not just crowd sizes but the movement in the polling recently that she is getting the support that will be necessary to defeat him. that has got him -- excuse me, completely unhinged. of the other thing that we see at play and i am so sorry. it goes beyond what charlemagne was talking about. it isn't just excitement in the democratic party or among independence but in the work we are doing over at women for us targeting moderate right- leaning women, kamala harris is

generating excitement and enthusiasm among some republicans who, up until now were hesitant to vote for the previous nominee for that party. she is doing something we have not seen happen in my recollection, in modern political history. >> jennifer, i will give you a second to cough. but you do know i have a specific interest in women voters and the ways that candidates can reach them. when you talk about these independent and republican minded women, i think of 2020 and women in the suburbs in places like georgia that came out for biden and what do you see with these voters this time around? >> in part they are motivated by a lot of other things that voters are motivated by, the fact that there is a candidate out there who is optimistic and enthusiastic and uplifting and smiling and not focusing on this armageddon gloom and doom vision of our great country,

but they are motivated by issues like bodily autonomy for women. about issues having to do with the economy and issues of having to do with the border. i think that kamala harris is surprising folks that she is kind of taking on these issues that joe biden struggled with and making them her own in a way that i think nobody, including myself anticipated. we do see women responding right now, those women that are kind of my circle and my people responding right now barry -- very positively. >> a month ago, those statistics looked like they were down and what does this like going forward and you see credence and those who criticized harris for not picking the popular governor of that state thinking how it could've locked that up early? >> there is no guarantee that a vice presidential candidate

will lock up a state for the presidential nominee and at the end of the day voters are voting for who was at the top of the ticket. she made a decision that i don't think will harm her. governor schapiro will still be on the campaign trail and it's something for the vice president and tim walz. i think people love governor schapiro in pennsylvania. i think a lot of people are happy he will be able to stay there and finish out the work he is doing but pennsylvania was always going to be a difficult state and kamala harris being at the top of the ticket doesn't change that. the real differences how many people can they continue to connect with and how many of these voters on the fence will now decide to participate and choose harris instead of thinking about who they will vote for but she will have people and all of the vice presidential candidates, and that isn't the right term but the possibilities and all of those folks will be able to be

in their states and i don't think it will be a concern. >> i do think many of us remember in 2020 waiting days for pennsylvania to come in because every vote needed to be counted because it would be so tight. i am struck in this new landscape we are in and there are senate democrats wrapping their arms around harris and a contrast, frankly from the last few weeks when i was hearing from front line members and those who are reelected who are nervous about the state of the biden/harris campaign and it seems like they are changing their tune in strategies and what you think especially in places like new hampshire where they could've been on the table and we are hearing more confidence from democrats there? >> let me point out to your point about the vice president and whether or not she should have gone with schapiro. the idea that your choice will get you that state, we do see some polling on jd vance and ohio and it doesn't look so good.

that state could be shifting out of the republican reach. for those democrats in the senate in particular, have a candidate at the top of the ticket now who is raising funds hand over fist turning out tens of thousands of people and crowds that are exceeding even donald trump's wildest imaginations. i think, frankly, she has shown her ability not just to message well and stay on message which donald trump is grumbling at right now but her message has been refined in a way that speaks to the moment. she doesn't just look like a younger more energetic enthusiastic candidate but she is refined her message in a way talking about issues that people care about with new language in a way that i think is really again speaking to the optimism and enthusiasm that the american people want to feel. >> you can color me a little

skeptical about the ohio of it all and i feel like that state is stuck in the red column but we don't know anything until anything happens and voters have 80 days until they vote and thank you both for joining us for a great conversation. >> we will talk about a big challenge for both campaigns and how to change these into votes. into votes. don't miss out. get started today. meet the jennifers. jen x. jen y. and jen z. each planning their future through the chase mobile app. jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? her credit's golden. hello new apartment. three jens getting ahead with chase. solutions that grow with you. one bank for now. for later.

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breaking news. no evaluations ordered in gaza second largest city after israel announced plans to attack hamas militants in the area. this amid fallout from the israeli strike at a school turned shelter that killed at least 100 people on saturday marking one of the deadliest attack in the war and coming ahead of a cease-fire summit planned this week. joining me now is the president of washington strategy group joel rubin. this is at least the third time that israel has launched a

major operation here, and area that many in gaza fled to because they thought it would be safer from fighting and now many of the 2 million residents say there is nowhere left to go and your reaction when you see this massive evacuation order given that context? >> reporter: this is a very dangerous moment and what we see with the civilians since they do have nowhere safe to go which is very troubling. the death count from yesterday was too high in israel needs to get to the negotiating table with hamas and president biden and vice president harris and they invited them to go there on thursday with egypt and qatar and join last week to get this implemented because, right now, what we are watching is a disintegration at a level that won't get the hostages out and won't provide stability for the palestinian people. hopefully the diplomats can

continue to turn the screws on but this was a devastating level of death yesterday and the evacuation order was also troubling and there may be more on the way. >> i do want to play for you some of what vice president harris said about a deadly school strike in gaza yesterday. >> as i have said many times, they also have, i believe an important responsibility to avoid civilian casualties in first and foremost in the president and i have been working on this around the clock. we need to get the hostages out and we need a deal and a cease- fire. i can't stress that strongly enough and the deal needs to get done in needs to be done now. >> what is your reaction to the attack, and how does it undermine the chances of reviving the stalled cease-fire negotiations? >> there have been a lot of shots back and forth the last week or so including the assassination of the hamas political leader and

destabilized those talks but there isn't any way out in terms of getting the hostages from gaza released and providing relief to the palestinians and a cease-fire. i do applaud the vice president for what she is doing and articulating how important it is to get these talks firmly on the ground and if anything, we do see in the last day and a half or so with the violence is demonstrating it won't get the hostages out and a return to israel and the other countries that have lost their people including americans and this has to be the priority and this is how we get stability at this stage in this war. this is really where the focus needs to be. it can be achieved. wars do have to have cease-fires and this is the way to do it. >> this is the window to do it but what israel has said if they are going after hamas but we do see strikes including civilian casualties in civilian areas and concern continues to grow as cease-fire talks continue and how much longer can this go on?

>> the israeli people are very concerned about the lack of a plan by prime minister netanyahu to get the hostages out and they have to see does result but clearly there is a desire to destroy and eradicate hamas which is a goal i share but you won't do that if you continue to kill unending numbers of civilians and increase israel's isolation on a global stage and not get the hostages out. so different tactic has to happen in israel needs to get this message but i think president biden has been clear publicly in behind-the-scenes is the vice president has that they have israel's back from a security perspective but these hostages we have seen when the largest number got out in november when there was a previous agreement which has to happen. this is what will bring calm to the region before we see a much bigger configuration because clearly it's on the horizon.

>> this cease-fire has been elusive and president biden and the leaders are planning to present but they are calling a final proposal this week in order to avoid a wider conflict regionally but can the administration put more pressure on israeli prime minister netanyahu? you have mentioned they are already doing that, but will it change anything? >> where the talks are is a framework has been agreed to and this has served a strategic goal and the implementation of that is where it is stumbling. i do think the united states has an opportunity in the biden ministration and his team to put these proposals forward on the table and to close the gaps so egypt and qatar can twist the arms of hamas and, quite frankly, we can with israel say this is how the deal will get done and this is a verifiable and how the hostages will get out and increased aid for civilians which is how they will benefit as well. this is where the united states

plays a new unique role in putting forth proposals that are tactical laying out specifics on how what is already been agreed to by israel and hamas going into effect. >> a real high wire act for negotiators in the pressure mounting every day. thank you for bringing us your expertise. >> coming up, the fine line between brat and cringe for the harris walls campaign. k? well always discreet can hold your biggest gushes with up to zero leaks and odor. so you're not just dry. you're laugh until you cry dry. we've got you, always. always discreet. everywhere but the seat. the seat is leather. we've got you, always. alan, we get it. you love your bike. we do, too. that's why we're america's number-one motorcycle insurer. but do you have to wedge it into everything?

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new democratic presidential nominee and the new running mate and an entirely new vibe along with it which started with charley saying kamala is brat and the campaign responded by going limegreen on twitter the official color and this week they compared him to a midwest princess a reference to his dad energy. the campaign launched a inspired hat which went viral and sold out quickly. in short kamala is brat and tim walz is midwest princess and it may not mean anything if you are online or under the 25 age that's the point is to engage young voters and meet them where they are and sneak into their tiktok feed and capitalize on what is already going viral. joining me now to talk about the strategy is this cofounder and author of a new book

democracy and retrograde. we did see the beginnings of this very online strategy. but the early branding of president biden's dark brandon his alter ego getting a lot of policy but talk about the impact of positioning a candidate like vice president harris of the intersection of pop culture and politics and what does it look like an what is that mean? >> first, thank you so much for having me. i do think it has been so intriguing about observing the campaign and the former biden campaign over these past two weeks and this campaign whose staff is still essentially the same rank and file people but it's actually not manufacturing this but they are doing an incredible job of leaning into something that is already there. the vice president's cultural positioning actually proceeded her being the nominee and the important thing i think to understand about this at this scale is it cannot be faked and

is a reflection of genuine interest in it you see the footage of the rally last night in las vegas, while the crowd was waiting for her to come out, the energy was undeniably electric and looked fun. you can see how this morale he is an online translation of enthusiasm that masses of people are feeling in real life. i do happen to think that some of the degree of the excitement around her is a side effect of the mood of the race before president biden dropped out. the biden matchup was a reflection of our gerontocracy in government which is a legitimate structural problem and not driving enthusiasm on either side. you remember that haley said the party that ditches it's 80- year-old candidate first will be the winner and we don't have a winter yet but we do have quite a bit of quantitative evidence that this race has changed and pop culture is intrinsically tied into youth culture. it is impossible to ignore this enthusiasm was unlocked when we finally had a younger nominee.

>> this is also a strategy without criticism and the question that politicians can get from influencers are different sometimes candidly and not as tough or in-depth that you would get from traditional reporters in dc and on these beats. even as she rides this wave, the criticisms of where they are focusing their efforts, are they valid? >> i think it is on its face but i think the criticism comes of it too soon within the context of this race and she is only the nominee for a few weeks and given it wouldn't have been appropriate for her to start preparing things like policy papers or electoral strategy before the president dropped out, the critique feels heavy and soon and running for president is about reaching and persuading voters and she only has 100 days to reach the whole country and she spent the first three weeks of the campaign getting it off the ground and setting the tone and meeting voters in swing states while

overhauling the internal operations in drawing up the policy. i will note that when she walked up to the press the other day the only things they asked her about were donald trump in the debate and hardly anything of substance. while i do feel that not engaging with the press is a valid critique of a campaign, i think it comes a bit soon which undermines some of the credibility of the critique and ultimately it does set up a situation where when she does eventually sit down with them, it will be needlessly antagonistic. it will less likely be evaluated on the substance. overall, i frankly don't think it is a critique that marginal voters the ones that she needs to win the election will be deeply intune with. >> she said she wants to get something on the books before the end of the month before the end of the dnc them quickly in the last few seconds, there is a fine line to walk between brat and cringe and how could she go wrong with the downside

to the strategy? >> i think she will go wong -- wrong and every candidate does because they are perfect but this is an opportunity to discuss how we speak about her as a nominee and she had a great start and maybe she is 17 -- setting her own high bar and maybe we would be honest if we were mindful of expectations we put on her to be flawless. especially when you look at her opponents, really only makes headlines by lowering that bar. >> thank you so much for joining us. >> if you watched it, you probably have an opinion about it. donald trump's news conference this week in my next guest called it frightening and not funny. i will tell you why, next. bacteria in your gut?

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a massive collection of video and audio recordings released shiny new light on the devastating 2022 texas school shooting were 19 students and two teachers were killed. the information comes after a battle between the city and over a dozen news organizations . priscilla thompson joins me from houston and what are we learning in this new documents released?

>> reporter: we are learning the man identifying himself as the shooter's uncle called 911 and attempted to talk the gunman down but by then it was too late. we are learning more about the crucial moments were officers finally enter the classrooms and a warning, the video and audio you are going to see here are disturbing. >> reporter: newly released body camera video from the robb elementary school shooting captures the moment officers took down the gunman in a barrage of bullets in uvalde. and here summer blurred and redacted by the city but it shows the chaotic aftermath as panicked officers rush to get children out of the classrooms. they also try to administer aid after 77 minutes in the hallway waiting to confront the gunman. >> everybody out who is not a medic. the release today through a court order after a lawsuit through media coalition including nbc news. among the material desperate 911 calls. and this includes this recording from a man identifying himself as the

shooter's uncle. >> do you know of any change in his behavior over the last few days? >> no, no, nothing. he said that his grandma sally was bugging him too much." >> a person identifying herself as the shooter's cousin also calling 911. >> he is my cousin and i don't want him to come. >> this comes as officers during the day showed up and children and teachers murder. the former school police chief was charged with 10 counts of abandoning and endangering a child and one count for each of the surviving children and of classrooms. a second officer faces 29 counts, which includes the children who died. >> we knew this from the very

beginning. >> reporter: they have both pleaded not guilty. tonight the public sees for the first time crucial moments from the heartbreaking day. >> this is the most substantial release of information and materials related to the shooting that happened more than two years ago but also included a report from an officer who did they that somebody claiming to be a family member talked to the shooter the night before and talked about wanting to die by suicide and they attempted to talk him out of that. >> it is stunning to hear those revelations now two years after the fact and still so many questions. thank you for staying on top of that. we turn now to decision 2024 with an increased debate on how to cover president trump's falsely leading events and he held a 64 minute news

conference this week which analysis found had 162 lies and distortions. so much of what trump said seems to bonkers to come from a former president and the nominee of a major party, so much so that journalists are trying to piece together a story as if trump were a normal person. this is a bias toward coherence. joining us now is that staff writer at the atlantic, tom nichols. it could be a challenge to strive for coherence from these ramblings but given that we could avoid the more outrageous and ridiculous attack lines because they don't necessarily warrant oxygen and how much of a problem is that? by sanitizing him you are changing the message and changing how he sounds and could that help him and importantly -- inadvertently? >> you shouldn't ignore the

crazy stuff just to sanitize it. the public does need to hear this. i think he has for eight years convinced people that this is the way i talk and it's locker room talk and i am just a brassy new yorker. none of that is true. he is unhinged. he is not stable. there is something deeply wrong with him. that should be the headline every time he does these things. they would be the headline. i think this is a good test to apply. if any other politician did things, for example, like saying things i vigor crowds than martin luther king did at the march on washington or i was in a helicopter crash with a guy who wasn't there and this never happened. this -- unfortunately, you can't really sit down and i am sure everybody has heard about trump and we do the same thing and we sit down and say am i really writing the the former

president and the nominee of a former party is completely bonkers? that is a hard thing to do because you don't want to see or seem like you are taking sides are being unfair or making those kinds of judgments. >> there is an object to the that is central the journalism and it doesn't mean you are sanitizing something but i think is the person anchoring this this week in the aftermath of that press conference, my colleagues and i were fact checking in real time and there are a lot of things that you need to go through and fact check after remarks like this and i know npr did a count of 160 things but the pushback is swift in terms of giving him airtime to speak like that even as he is one of the nominees for two major parties but ignoring something doesn't make it go away. how do you find that correct balance? >> ignoring it doesn't make it go away and he plays a game where he feeds all of this rhetorical lunacy to his

followers and his staff and campaign and apologists try to do this kind of jedi mind wave and it wasn't that crazy or they say it isn't what you think because it wasn't covered. i did see you and i saw people trying to do these fact checks and i don't think these work with him. there are too many things to deal with but i think simply pointing out and taking some of these like the 45 or six things to the public -- four or five or six things he says to the public. but he actually said these things. they are really disturbing and frightening with somebody who can become the commander in chief. he is delusional. he has serious problems. fact checking i don't think it gets to how awful it is and i don't think the pushback about oxygen is fair. i think the public needs to see this. >> i have been of that mind set

covering him and having done so throughout the entirety to let candidates say what they want and give them the opportunity to make their own decisions. that brings us to the point where we do have a debate coming in the question during the last debate when it was biden and trump was where was the fact checking from the moderators? is it incumbent upon the challenger, harris or should it be the onus of the media? >> i took a lot of steam for saying it isn't the job of the moderator. the moderators are there to ask questions and ask incisive questions, follow-ups but if the candidate lies as trump does? i think it is incumbent on the other candidate to step forward and say that is a lie and it is something that didn't happen or is untrue. otherwise the moderators end up in a fight with a candidate and the other candidate has to kind of stand there.

i think that is the wrong approach but trump is a challenge. no candidate. this is a problem for anybody who debates him. either you stand there and fact check everything he says while he stands across from you and says wrong, wrong, wrong, as he is always done, or you try to push past it. in a way donald trump's emotional instability defies the ability to report on him or to debate him, but i do think the most important thing is not to hide it or cut off oxygen or put it out there. >> thank you, john nichols -- tom nichols, apologies, tom, for joining us for a complex conversation and i think all of us are parsing through this in real time and i do appreciate you coming on. >> that will do it for me this hour. thank you for watching. my friend is up next with the

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