convention and parliament can you only imagine how he's feeling and you're doing good reporting. we're not seeing much of his presidency. he's got a lot of things on his plate. he's working hard on the middle east peace and trying hard to get the cease-fire landed, but rather than that he's relatively out of sight. he went to new orleans yesterday and will go to maryland tomorrow for the first joint appearance with kamala harris and is basically going to retreat. he'll take some vacation time. he's going to spend some time outside of the public spotlight. in some ways, of course, you can argue he's trying to cede the stage to kamala harris and have her make her own identity. of course this is a painful moment. it stings to have friends like you thought were your closest allies like nancy pelosi and president obama seemingly pulling the rug out from underneath him, and it's not surprising that that would be a particularly painful moment. >> one note on pelosi.

the president certainly frustrated with her but also said he told allies he understands why she did what she had to do. she's ruthless because she always puts of the parties first. peter baker, thanks so much and we'll talk to you again and thanks for getting up "way too early" on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> the republican party needs to make a serious shift here, and the first thing is the republican party, donald trump, people here at fox, quit complaining that she's not giving an interview. you don't need an interview from chairs. we need him to win. but you've got to go out and do the work, and the one thing the republicans have to stop doing quit whining about her. i want this campaign to wings, but the campaign is not going to win talking about crowd sizes. it's not going to win talking about what race kamala harris is. it's not going to win talking about whether she's dumb. it's not -- you can't win on those things. the american people are smart. treat them like they are smart.

>> former republican presidential candidate nikki haley with some advise. >> true. it's not hard. like they are just whining. it doesn't work, right, willie, it doesn't work, and she's the one, remember? she's the one if you elect donald trump, if you nominate donald trump, he's going to lose. >> yeah. >> she warned them. she's warning them again and -- and good for her for going on fox issuing the warning. >> yeah. down to her last day in new hampshire she was saying when you lose in november, don't come crying to me. i'm warning you now. he's going to lose in november, and as we pointed out yesterday, guys. she is just the latest in the people supporting donald trump, some of of them very close to donald trump saying you've got to knock this off. you've got to stop going out and posting wild conspiracy theories about crowd sizes and talking about her race and everything else and focus on the issues, but as we know well and everyone watching the show knows well and everyone in the country at this

point should know well, this is not a man who is going to change who he is and suddenly become a great policy wonk. this is who he is. he's guided by his own grievance and we's upset that kamala harris in this moment is getting the better of him. >> absolutely. >> it's just a lot of times you've got ministers that have issues that won't work for them, right? >> right. >> and so they try to distract and they try to do this and that. the weird thing about republicans, and i've felt this way since donald trump got involved, i think most americans agree with them on basic economic issues and on the border and on all these other issues. unfortunately, they killed the border bill, but the thing is if they argue the issues, they have got a better than even chance of winning, but they don't argument issues. they just refuse to. >> well, in a sum they may be trying to but then it comes back to the candidate himself and he

tends to talk about sizes of crowds or stomachs, and so it's sort of hard to campaign on that. as nikki haley said it herself, it's hard to campaign on negativity. with us we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at politico jonathan lemire, msnbc contributor, mike barnicle, president of the action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation" reverend al sharpton and managing editor at "bulwark" sam stein is with us in a moment. in an effort to blunt momentum of kamala harris donald trump is headed to a rally in asheville that his campaign is touting as a significant economic address. it's been 16 years since a democrat won the state, and it's 16 locate rall votes when barack obama prevailed there in 2008. trump won north carolina in 2020 by less than 75,000 votes. >> sam stein, i mean, pretty

simple math when you look at the states, especially in the south. one of the reasons georgia tipped first toe democrat the way it has is because atlanta is such a massive urban center, so big in the suburbs that actually the rural votes can come in overwhelmingly for donald trump and it doesn't matter. north carolina is moving into that direction and people expect north carolina eventually to tip democratic as charlotte and other cities get bigger. you also -- you have a good-sized black involvement have you a goosor good-sized educated vote there with all of the schools, so not carol could tip, and i think most democrats think maybe four, eight years it's going to be solidly blue, but what you have with donald trump and just an absolutely radical republican gubernatorial candidate is giving democrats and the harris campaign hope

that they can take it this year like barack obama did once. >> do we have audio of sam? >> hello. do you not have audio on me? >> so listen, i will say this, sam. >> he's wearing it. >> okay. >> he's wearing his microphone. after we've done this show for like a couple of months, i think we're going to get good at it, but go ahead, sam. north carolina, is it even -- >> i've learned my lesson. i will never ever, ever, ever blame technicians, the godsend of the show. >> never. >> that one was on me. that one was on me. >> okay. he really has come along. >> he's just saying it five years later. >> i'm still tired by it. people still come up to me and mention that moment and it's really jarring. >> wow. >> i will say about north carolina. >> you kind of -- you kind of like christian bale like yelling

at his lighting guy. it went viral. >> damn, that's a deep-cut joke. we're going to get this back on track. north carolina, obama won north carolina as joe mentioned, it was supposed to be the southern state that went democratic first and georgia leapfrog it had largely because trump basically turned off much of the suburbs in and around atlanta. georgia flips. north carolina has kind of been the stubborn, annoying little state, pretty big state democrats have tried to get and again. it's been fool's gold. part of the reason is just hasn't had that same type of conversion that georgia did, but for, you know, the past couple of months, the biden people and now the harris people have looked at it and said we have a real chance of flipping this. i think the fact that trump is showing up there today is a real sign that they are nervous about the state. i think joe hit it on the yet, the fact that mark robinson is on the head of the gubernatorial ticket for republicans, really a radical figure all things

considered relative to other gubernatorial candidates on the republican side this, could be the state that kind of under the radar harris could flip which makes her path to getting to 270 a lot easier. suddenly you don't have to be so preoccupied with michigan or wisconsin. obviously pennsylvania is huge. you still need to have that one, but, yeah, north carolina is one of those under-the-radar targets. >> it is extraordinary to think where we were a month ago when joe biden was viewed as being the nominee obviously talking about states like minnesota maybe going republican, that they were going to lose democratic strongholds. they are throwing out new jersey, forget nevada and arizona and all the other places they started to write off a little bit and thinking we have to win the three states. that dynamic has changed completely. now we're talking about georgia, arizona, nevada, and maybe north carolina now tipping in the direction of kamala harris. a total flip in the way we're sort of viewing the map at this point. >> here's how things changed. during the republican national convention, the biden team put

out a campaign memo that basically said our only path to victory was wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania. that's the only way they could do it. at the same time republicans gave a briefing to republicans saying north carolina is in the bag. we won't worry about that. what happened this week, donald trump showing up in north carolina. what also happened this week, they put in an ad buy in north carolina so that shows you how they are now concerned about that state. vice president harris will also be in north carolina this week. she will be there friday, mike barnicle, and interestingly boast candidates are using that state to talk about the economy. trump is going to talk about it today. obviously complaints about inflation and deriding what they have seen from the biden white house and then kamala harris on friday in are a logue is going to defend the record of the economy and try to silence some people who think that's one of her vulnerabilities. >> you know, to willie's point, the sea change in american politics over just the past few weeks has been astounding, as

you indicated. president biden was supposed to be on the ballot three or four weeks ago, and all the numbers in every state were going the wrong way. now it's completely flip-flopped, including north carolina, which is now in contention, and i would submit there's one other element to be added to this conversation. i think there's going to be another sea change after the first debate that occurs between donald trump and kamala harris. when a black woman in the ring cuffs him around, which she will, i think he will go bananas in public, and that will change everything. >> i agree with you. i think that the fact that this black woman is going to be standing there equal to him is already unnerving him and for him to be able to prosecute the case when a few days later he has to go to a sentencing for his 34 felonies, i think he's rat age.

people don't understand that not only has he naturally lost it. the man is looking at a sentencing date. i don't know why we keep avoiding the fact that we're talking about from debate to debate. the man doesn't know what the judge is going to do on the 18th. he may have to get permission from a judge to go to a second debate. >> an 80-year-old man. >> an 80-year-old man and i've spent some time in north carolina the last month. i preached at at church in winston-salem, sir walter max church and did the zion convention and i'm so sick of everybody asking me am i bringing joe scarborough with me? he's not my deacon, he's a friend of mine. >> amen. >> i've talked to north carolina and what has happened is this bizarre gubernatorial candidate that the republicans have who is a black man who says blacks ought to be paying reparations to whites for taking care of us during slavery. >> okay.

>> this is literally a quote. that is going to help kamala harris immeasurably. >> yeah. >> that goes perfectly with our next story. >> it does, and you look at, again, what mike and reverend al say about a black woman debating him. you can really take black off of that and just say woman. >> true. >> and see how much women get under his skin, how much hillary clinton got under his skin, how much e. jean carroll and her attorney got under his sin. >> we know. >> he's shown it throughout his life, and you add fact that she's a black woman and i'm sure that makes it even more maddening for him. >> so "washington post" is highlighting what it's calling donald trump's laundry list of increasingly bizarre claims. take a look at this. "the post's" analysis reads, quote, it's difficult to try and

compare the relative ridiculousness of trump's claims over time, but there is no question he has pushed the envelope in new and astonishing ways. let's recap ten of the most recent examples. number one. his claim last week that a massive crowd at a rally for vice president kamala harris didn't exist and nobody was there. trump wrote on social media that photos and videos of the crowd were a.i. -- generated which they were not. number two, that president joe biden prepared to have the fbi assassinate him when it lawfully seized classified documents from mar-a-lago in 2022. number three, that it's the democrats and their messaging that's to blame for last month's attempted assassination of trump. let that breathe for a moment. number four, that biden faked having covid-19 last month in the days leading up to his

withdrawal from the 2024 race. number five, that trump was nearly in a helicopter crash with former san francisco mayor willie brown after brown insisted last week that the incident never happened, a different black lawmaker from california came forward to say it was him in the chopper with trump, not the former mayor. number six, that biden will try to reclaim the democratic nomination at next week's democratic national convention. number seven, that harris only recently started identifying as black. number eight, that the crowd at his rally on january 6th was bigger than the one martin luther king jr. had for his famous i have a dream speech. number nine, that other countries are emptying their prisons and sending criminals to the united states. and number ten, that the democrats want to allow killing

babies after birth. >> that's a -- that's an oldie that -- >> an oldie but a sicky. >> that they have lied about for a very long time. >> jonathan lemire, yesterday, a column in "new york magazine" talked about the real media bias, and -- and that it's -- it's not on the left against the right, against donald trump, that in fact it is the mainstream media desperate to just keep -- keep this narrative going that this is an election just like any other, that, you know, acting like it's clinton versus dole in 1996, ignoring those extraordinarily bizarre claims that would be disqualifying. i've seen it time and again. a lot of people that sit around and, you know, oh, my god, the media. it's so biased. it's so biased against donald trump and then donald trump will go out and say that a crowd of

10,000, 15,000 doesn't exist and it's a.i.-generated and they will just kind of sit there and then go, you know, when is kamala harris going to have her first sit-down interview with george stephanopoulos? you're sitting there, wait, don't we stop the presses on that. don't we stop the presses when he makes up stories about willie brown in a helicopter crash. don't we stop the presses. i mean, can you go down this list of ten that joe biden is going -- there's going to be a coup in chicago and joe biden is going to be riding in on a white stallion. i mean, there's just -- i exaggerate a bit on that one, but all of these things are just crazy, and yet the press will just take it in because they are so numb to it. what do you expect her economic theory is going to be on quantitative easing? and when is she going to reveal it? it's just madness. >> you hit a key word there. it's numb. i think that the media and a lot of americans have just grown

used to the insane ramblings from donald trump, and i think sometimes the media struggles to give him the coverage they deserve. i think that the press has done better in 2024 than it did in 2016 to be sure, progress han been made, but there's a long way to go and part of it because trump, is as we've discussed on the show a lot, has as fire hose of falsehoods and to put it in the proper context. i think also, the media, and i won't speak for anyone, but certainly outlets have suggested this, that there's a perception that the media is liberal, the main stream media, and in an effort to prove over pc wards that they are sometimes not they try to overcompensate and they are not as critical of the republican candidates as they should be. what this show has been doing all along has been focusing on the stakes of the election. we've been calling out donald trump when he lies and his dangerous policies. yes, was there an overkill of coverage about president biden's

age? no doubt. this show has also talked about how donald trump is old, too, but i think the key here is to focus on what's at stake this november, and it's sometimes less the day-to-day dramas. we have to call it out when we see it. >> pick your favorite from david letterman's worst ever top ten list that mika. look at january 6 versus the i have a dream speech. he's raging as a point of pride the crowd that he sent to the capitol to attempt a coup, when the building was defaced and officers beaten, many of them going to jail, comparing that day, one of the darkest in our history to the i have a dream speech given by martin luther king. that's who he is, and we have keep talking about it. the first claim on "the washington post" list that vice president crowds are generated by a.i., that they are not real. one of the signs senator bernie sanders is pointing out that trump is setting the stage to

deny the results of the 20924 election if he loses in november. part of this numbing we're talking about. in a statement senator sanders writes donald trump may be crazy, but he's not stupid. when he claims nobody showed up at at 10,000-person harris/walz rally in michigan that it was widely generated by a.i. and democrats cheat all the time there's a method to his madness. senator sanders goes on if you can convince that thousands of people who attended a televised rally it will not be hard to convince them to the election results will be fake and fraud leapt. that's what undermining democracy is about. this is what fascism is about, rev, and this is what he's done from the beginning, undermining institutions so that you don't believe your own eyes. you believe only his voice. >> and i agree with senator sanders. he's preparing us to deny the

election results in november because he believes that he has a chance of lose, and so do most people at this point. and i think, again, your point. i don't think people understand how deeply insulting it is to compare the march on washington in '63 when dr. king gave that speech with an attempt to overthrow an election violently that his followers did that he was president and sent them to the capitol. i mean, they had national guard ready in '63. mrs. king, i was too young to know dr. king. mrs. king said they expected a riot today. it was the most nonviolent expression of tens of thousands of people for the civil rights movement at that time in 5063. to compare that to people beating on policemen and law enforcement and desecrating the capitol in and of itself ought to insult every american. >> yes. >> you know, and bernie sanders,

everybody needs to really take that, are interested in what's going on in this country, need to take that to heart, because you can go back and you can look at the rise of other fascist governments, and it's the playbook. it is the playbook that you lie so much that you numb the media, you numb the masses, you numb people and soon they give up. >> right. >> on trying to figure out what the truth is, and i -- i hear this from people i grew up with all the time and people i've known for a very long time. oh, you know, joe, i just don't watch news anymore and i don't read news anymore because you can't tell who is telling the truth and who is not telling the truth, and then you talk to them further and you ask where they get their news from, and it will be from a conspiracy website that spreads these sort of lies and so in part they get what they are looking for and also in

part they hear these lies and again it numbs them so much that they just give up. and that's exactly what's going on here, and what's the purpose of it? as bernie sanders said, it's to undermine faith in institutions. when you have a presidential candidate, a president at the time saying don't trust american democracy because i lost and you have republicans that follow along and undermine the american institution of democracy and what trump's own people said was the safest election ever, the cleanest election ever, and then you have a former president saying don't trust the jury system, and then you have senators like marco rubio going out and saying that trial by jury in the united states of america with all the checks and

balances is no better than castro's cuba. that is the undermining of institutions that radicals on the far left did in the '60s and the '70s and that conservatives used to push back against. you know, mika, edmund burke said that you can tear down institutions in a day that it took centuries to build up. >> that's right. >> that's exactly what's going on here. again, edmund burke, the father of conservatism said you can tear down institutions in a day that took centuries to build, and the essence of conservatism is to respect the institutions, to protect the institutions and not be radicals who try to undermine and tear down those institutions which sadly is what the so-called conservative party has been doing now for nine years if their person doesn't win. >> over the course of nine

years, if you can believe it, think about how this show began 17, 18 years ago with willie. it was supposed to be a discussion democrat, republican, about ideas based on facts, and that's what we celebrated. the civil conversation, the joy of debate and disagreeing on issues based on facts, and today we fight for the truth. today seas a completely different landscape because what has happened over the past nine years, and as bernie sanders pointed out, if you can take a crowd and make it disappear in people's eyes, then not only is it fascism potentially on its way or some sort of cult, sam stein, but the bottom line is these people don't have to believe donald trump. the importance is that they don't believe anything. read anne applebaum's book and read madeline albright's book and read what bernie sanders

just said and it's kind of frightening where this is going. >> yeah. i know, and i'm -- i'm in 100% agreement here. i know joe biden was on cbs over the weekend. he was asked do you think there will be a peaceful transition of power afford the 2024 election and he said, no, if trump lose, there will not be, and i think they are like not hiding the ball here. trump has already laid the predicate for challenging the electorate results. in the house currently conservative lawmakers are trying to push legislation that would try to solve a problem that didn't exist, the problem of undocumented migrants to vote. can't to it, but that is too laying the predicate for challenging the result because it that legislation doesn't pass and donald trump loses the lawmakers will say, look, you didn't pass the bill to protect the vote, therefore, it was illegally won by kamala harris, so i do worry about what's happening -- what will happen in the post-election environment if trump loses, and i think we all should be on guard for it. it's a really troubling harrowing possibility that we

will find ourselves in something even worse potentially than what we experienced on january 6. >> all right. coming up on "morning joe," governor tim walz holds a pro-union event while donald trump faces allegations of being a union buster. we'll explain that split screen. also ahead, position could you is withdrawing some troops from ukraine to counter kyiv's surprise incursion into russian territory. we'll talk to retired navy admiral james stavridis about the state of the wore. and we'll be joined by john sullivan on the diplomat front lines, former u.s. ambassador to russia who is our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds. re wat" we're back in 90 seconds libertl customizes car insurance, so they only pay for what they need. got it? [squawks] did you get that? only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty,♪

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ask about ubrelvy. time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. japan's prime minister fumio kishida is stepping down bowing to pressure from within his own party and plummeting approval ratings. as "the new york times" notes, the 67-year-old becomes the latest in a long line of unpopular leaders who are facing growing frustration from the public about political scandals and economic pressures. up to $150 million in federal grants is heading to researchers developing advanced surgery to remove tumors from people with

cancer. it's part of president biden's ambitious cancer moonshot effort that he has championed for years. the initiative is expected to remain a minimum wage ore focus of his remaining time in office. and a military judge is examining defense secretary lloyd austin's decision to rescind plea agreements that would have spared the plotters of 9/11 the death penalty. the war court in guantanamo bay will discuss the legality of austin's decision. the pentagon chief intervened just days after the ruling took capital punishment off the table. russia appears to be reorganizing its forces in the wake of ukraine's incursion. u.s. officials tell "the wall street journal" that russia is withdrawing troops from ukraine to respond to the counterassault. the officials did not specify how many troops have been moved, but it points to the effectiveness of ukraine's gamble. the country's military commander

said yesterday his forces had taken control of 74 russian towns and villages since the incursion was first launched last week. >> let's bring in right now former supreme allied commander of navy james stavridis, an analyst for nbc news. thanks for being with us. i want to read a paragraph from "the new york times" this morning, article this morning, mostly on the defensive and counter defensive fail last year. ukraine has pushed 25 miles into russia along a 25-mile front and taken dozen of russian soldiers prisoners. analysts and russian officials say the russia's curse you can region says ukraine controls 28 towns and villages there. more than 132,000 people have been evacuated from nearby areas, russian officials said, and it seems that in this

offensive ukraine has taken more ground in russia than russian has taken in ukraine all year. talk about this incursion and the strategic importance and really the strategic necessity of it for ukraine. >> yeah. that's the right word, and let's kind of do it from the inside/out. so what's the impact in russia and on the russian armed forces? it's a morale blow to the russian people who have been fed endless propaganda and lies that this is going to be a cakewalk when the war started, and suddenly we're up to hundreds of thousands of dead russians, and now russia is invaded for the first time since the second world war, joe. i mean, this is 85 years ago, and this shattered all of that. that's a big deal. secondly to the russian peace of this, as you correctly point

out, now they are forced to swing forces away from their main battle effort down south of where this military salient has occurred. russia has to deal with that. they have to shift forces, extremely concerning militarily. that's the russian piece. over here for ukraine and kyiv, big shot in the arm. more earle has been sort of fluttering sort of for the last year frankly. this is a good boost to that. third and finally, think about how this lands internationally, people talking about, it european airwaves are flooded with this. this is a big boost to the efforts to continue military aid to the ukrainians, so those three audiences are kind of two thumbs up and we all the should be this morning. >> admiral good morning. ukraine's top military commander says they have taken 74 russian towns and villages of varying sizes and 74 is not an insignificant number, so if we pull back a little bit, this is

one moment in time in a long war. what is the larger significance? what does it say about where ukraine is and about where russia is in the wars? >> two big things. one that you're seeing, willy, is the use what have we call combined arms. that's military speak for putting together air, artillery, armor, ground soldiers, cyber, drones, putting it all together. this is exactly what the west has been training the ukrainians to do for over two and a half years and you're seeing a real proof of case in doing this. that is very disconcerting to the russians and then secondly it's not just what is happening on the battlefield here because this is not going to turn here in a march on moscow, napoleon in the 1800s burning the city of moscow. that's not in the cards, but it's not just the battlefield. it's the negotiating table. if zalinskiyy can hold on to a

chunk of this, that becomes a pretty significant bargaining trip. final thought, several thousand russian soldiers will end up being captured as a result of this over time. now those become bargaining chips to play back for ukrainians that are captured and also looking ahead to that negotiated table. >> admiral, that last usage of words that you just appropriated, if they can hold on to the territory they have seized in russia right now, 74 villages and towns. the russian army in terms of personnel is much, much larger than the ukrainian army. the military and competence level of the russian high command is notoriously in kemp tense and i don't mean to throw cold water on the invasion of the ukrainian army into russia, they could be easily, easily

outflanked. does this bother you at all? >> it does. any time you create a kind of, again, to use the military word, a salient, where you're taven a territory, you're on both sides of that. it cuts both ways. the ukrainians can come out of that and cut behind the russian forces where their soft underbelly of logistics, command and control exists. that's why putin's generals have to move very quickly to shore this up. bottom line, will they hold on to this territory? i think that's unlikely. i think what's likely happening is the demonstration of military campaignability, morale-busting in russian and enhancing morale in ukraine. that's the objective. they may well take the prisoners, come back and let putin imagine where the next attack could come from. >> the most striking thing to me

about all of this is silence, and that silence from the united states. no objections raised, and that's very different than what the biden white house and biden administration's approach has been through the. they kept trying to tamp down ukraine and stop them from striking down in russia and giving them slow approval for striking and ukraine officials did not give the u.s. a head's up, they just went and the united states has not objected and neither have the european allies and the officials i talked to say it does identify a little bit of a sea change, the united states more willing to take the risk and teague the fight into russia shattering putin's claim to his own citizens that this war effort would not impact their lives. >> right, and it -- once again, it shows how well joe biden has worked this. from the very beginning of the war, i mean, you've had people on the far right -- well, from the far left saying we should

just end j.d. vance and donald trump basically saying we should just turn ukraine over to -- to putin, and then you have people in the far right basically saying we need to sing marching to zion and storm moscow. it doesn't work that way when you're dealing with a country that has more nuclear weapons than anybody else and have threatened to use them. there's been a measured order approach week after week, month after month, year after year and this is where we are now and it is working, and not only have the ukrainians stayed in the fight because of the united states and our allies in europe and across the world, but also because of joe biden's measured approach and what are we seeing here? not the beginning of the end, but as i quoted churchill yesterday, i'll say it again, maybe the end of the beginning, and maybe a move that actually

encourages vladimir putin and his people to be more serious in their talks with bill burns the next time they have that opportunity and start putting together a plan for peace. admiral stavridis, i want to talk to you about two other things. feel free to comment about that, if you like. while we're talking about peace, i was struck by davidig nauseous' latest column about what's going on in gaza and how there is pressure from all sides for a cease-fire, for a hostage deal for peace except in one corner, and let me read this to you, and sadly it's not surprising it israel and iran move closer to regional war. joe biden joined by the leaders ever egypt and qatar have been mediating partners. the best -- the best outcome for this -- for this crisis for both

countries prodded by the international community would be to agree to a cease-fire in gaza and release israeli hostages. listen to this, admiral. the peace plan is backed by the u.n. security council, the group of seven, moderate arab countries, israel's defense and security establishment and hamas has dropped its main objection, and, david goes on to say the only holdout is benjamin netanyahu, and i'm sore to needs to be said. the man that we have been talking about for months and others have been talking about for months who would stay -- continue this war, continues to up the ante because he now alone, if you look, even his war cabinet and his defense ministers that think that -- think that his, quote, total victory in gaza, even his own

defense minister says that's just unrealistic, so do we -- are we really in a position where one man who is trying to avoid political defeat and jail is going to move us into a regional war? >> unfortunately you can lay that case out pretty coherently that he is the roadblock here, and i know well, for example, general benny gans who was the number two in the war cabinet is in my view the probable next prime minister of israel. he timely walked out of the war cabinet. yoav gallant, november former defense minister and another general i know well who is the current defense minister is the one who is publicly throwing the red flag on benjamin netanyahu's unconditional surrender of hamas. >> by the way, his own defense

minister so before people start shouting you are doing the bidding of hamas, which, of course, nobody is here, this is his own defense minister. >> exactly. >> the security establishment all saying that this is unrealistic, and we need to avoid a regional war. we need to make peace now or at least a cease-fire, right? >> 100% correct. picture a scenario where publicly lloyd austin is breaking out and saying that joe biden's approach to china and our defenses in the south china sea are all wrong. it's impossible to imagine that, and yet it's unfolding in front of our eyes here, and by the way, yoav gallant is not on the left in israeli politics, so this is something that is finally starting to build around

netanyahu. i'm hopeful of that, and to your point, joe, that all of this will put pressure that hopefully can help us at negotiating table is crucial. hey, final thought back to ukraine for one second, something you said. i just want to draw a line under t.yes, team biden has handled this well. you know who else has. the europeans, our allies. >> yes, they have. >> they put more money into this than we have. they are more faithful to this, and they led their way on taking the shackles off the ukrainians, letting them use long range uk missiles, french missiles, so above all for me as a former nato commander, i look at what's happening in ukraine through the prism of allied operations pretty good and frankly that ought to worry us when we talk about team trump coming in here who is so skeptical of our

alliance systems. >> finally i want to turn your attention to, and the i'm sure you saw this piece by ambassador rahm emanuel, and i'll quote the headline. the navy is breaking down. we need our allies to help fix our ships. i'm curious. do you agree that our navy is breaking down and we need help? >> yes and yes, and the things that his on ork the former mayor who is a good friend of mine, he so correctly underlines the challenges are in the defense industrial base, building the ships, the maintenance. what's not breaking down is the morale of our sailors who are under fire in the arabian gulf, under fire in the indian ocean from the houthi rebels, knocking down missiles and launching strikes. two aircraft carriers are now in the region, guided missile submarines, our navy forward is doing just fine, and i know our

ambassador would agree with me, ambassador emanuel. it's the maintenance, the ship building, the ship numbers. those are things we've got to fix, and, again, we've talked a lot about allies, japan in this regard doubling their defense budget, one of the great ship building nations, ship repairs. i've had ships under my command repaired there. it's quite remarkable. i'm two thumbs up for rahm emanuel. >> retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis. thank you as always for come on this morning. come up on "morning joe," we'll take a closer look at how some of donald trump's supporters now view the former president following last month's assassination attempt against him. nbc's morgan radford joins us with her new reporting. radford with her new reporting

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event, and for those of you that don't believe in god, i believe that there's only one reason that could have happened because the chances were so -- so small. >> former president donald trump at a rally in montana on friday talking about last month's assassination attempt against him. it's been just over a month since that shooting near butler, pennsylvania. for many of donald trump supporters, that attack has changed the way they see his campaign and a potential second term in office for him. be nbc news correspondent and co-anchor of "next news daily" morgan radford has been talking to some of those supporters and joins us now. what have you learned had. >> a few things, willie. number one, the assassination attempt is still very much on top of people's minds. can you also hear it in terms of like divine intervention, and you request see it in some of the t-shirts and the outfits appearing at these rallies, but we also learned that it's really reinforced a believe that existed well before the

assassination attempt, that the former president has a role to play when it comes to religious policy right here on earth. >> we will fight. >> from the pulpit to the political stage. >> give thanks and glory to god for sparing the life of president donald trump. >> there's a new type of language surrounding former president donald trump's campaign. >> divine intervention. >> god has his hand on him. >> doubling down after the failed assassination attempt on july 13 at a rally in butler, pennsylvania, which trump survived with only a minor ear injury. >> trump is still alive, by god's grace. >> a sentiment echoed in everything from fan-made merchandise to music videos on social media. ♪ i heard proves i'd that you would shoot but would you miss ♪ >> and white protestant evangelical voters supported trump at 81%, now what many consider to be a miracle strengthened his popularity among christians even more?

to find out we spoke to dozens of trump supporters at religious events, churches and campaign rallies across the country who talked about everything from their goals for a second trump term to their fears if he doesn't win. >> we need to protect the babe sflis it's not logical for a man to be a woman and compete in any man's sport. >> to the political opposition. >> i'm ready for them to make the bible hate speech. >> you think people who vote on the left would make the bible hate speech? >> testify hitly. >> allison says she was on the capitol grounds on january 6. >> you're talking to an insurrectionist. >> i was. >> her belief that divine intervention played a role in saving trump and can i do this as a whole. >> we need christ back in our country. >> what does that look like to have christ back in our country? what does it look like politically? >> just like louisiana. put the ten commandments back in our classrooms.

that's -- we need that. >> shane wings is a pastor and ceo of promisekeepers, a men's ministry group. he says there's a bigger message. >> my message to christians, and it should be loud and clear now, if you don't want to be in politics, but politics wants to be involved in you. >> do you this particular second run of trump has re-energized the christian right in a new or different way in. >> a thousand percent. >> all following a seismic shift among republican voters happening before the assassination attempt. while more than 40% of republicans believed trump was anointed by god in a 2020 survey, that number dropped to just 18% three years later. >> one of the reasons why we see trump and many others in his orbit using religious language and specifically going to talk to christians and christian audiences is to try to reinforce those connections. >> connections that are now resonating with some trump supporters, like joseph patterson.

>> it's a miracle. >> if trump has been divinely protected does it mean he has to listen to congress or listen to manmade? >> he has free will. he can listen to him level? even if it's against, you know, against the will of the american people or the supreme court or democrats? >> yes. >> so whatever former president trump says goes, is that kind of what i'm hearing in. >> yeah. >> wow. >> we reached out to the trump campaign for comment and have not gotten a response yet, and to put all of though in context. 63% of americans consider themselves to be christian according to the most recent polling from pew research, but it's important to say that not all christians are evangelicals who are 24% of the population, a number that's declined by 6%, but this is a group that has gotten much more reliably republican that their turnout will be incredibly key for the fall campaign. >> the fact that you see so many that feel that trump's attempted

assassination was somehow god-intervening, do they have a feeling from the other side that it was a warning? you can see throughout the bible where god warned people and where god delivered people? is there any balance at all in -- in your research? >> that is a great question. no one described it as a warning, and, of course, given the context, these are ardent trump supporters, but interestingly i did request do you think if trump was divinely anointed that perhaps vice president kamala harris might be anointed, no, absolutely not. the bullet was the evidence. we haven't seen that type of evidence for miss harris, but i think what's even interesting on a larger scale is you're seeing how closely tied the evangelical movement is tied to the maga movement but it's working in one direction. there's a pew research poll that came out in 2021 people real overlooked that basically said

if you looked, white voters who had warm feelings towards trump in 2016 began to identify as evangelical during his four years in office but actually about 25% of democrats thought he was anointed which reminds you there are just some people who believe by virtue of being a president you have been divinely ordained. >> you know, there are, willie, so many things to talk about here. i'm really -- i don't know where to start, and, morgan, feel free to jump in here. >> so god spared donald trump but he killed corey comperatore in front of his family and children? >> that's the first thing. >> that happened at that the shooting. >> yeah, during the shooting. it's -- the second thing is we are talking about the margins,

morgan. david brody with cbn just sent me an ad that we're going to put up soon, evangelicals for -- for harris, and we're going to run it, and while, you know, some people may -- may mock that effort, david underlined these stats. barack obama got 20% of the white evangelical vote in 2008 and he won. hillary clinton got 16% of the evangelical white vote in 2016 and she lost. joe biden in 2020 got 24% of the white evangelical vote and he won, and david brody and i think many others would agree that if kamala harris gets 20% plus of the white evangelical vote she probably, too, will win, so what we're talking about here are white evangelicals on the margins and those who probably don't want to vote for a man who

said that he didn't need god's forgiveness, that he never asked for god's forgiveness because he never needed it. he kept god out of that >> you know what's interesting when you talk to these voters they see god in the center of it, and trump follow many of them is the vessel by which they are seeing that god. i think you make a really good point here. what you're talking about, joe, is race and religion, right, and the confluence of those two things is what we're seeing play out. a lot of the voters i talked to. these are the same people that when trump is saying, look, she's not really black. this is a man who walked into a room filled with black journalists and tried to convince them that the woman that was not appearing was not in fact up of them. so if you're talking like that in that language to a base that already does not believe that this is a woman who represents them, i think it's clear that a case can be made that that vote is specifically up for grabs in a unique way for this particular

former president. >> and i always go back to something we heard during the 2016 campaign. we've talked about all the things in donald trump's life that fly in the face of the teachings of jesus. they say we're not electing a saint but a president and in that political case they say they have three supreme court justices that overturned "roe v. wade," joe, so a win for them and sort of a political deal. >> yeah. >> morgan brings up a great point. people who did not identify as evangelicals before trump was elected that started calling themselves evangelicals. willie, as the late tim keller said, i stopped calling myself an evangelical because that used to be an identifier for faith. now it's a cultural identifier and unfortunately too tied into culture wars that have nothing do with the gospel of jesus christ. >> that's right. morgan radford, starting a great conversation for us as usual. >> yeah. >> nbc correspondent co-anchor of next news.

thanks. >> still ahead, cook political report is out with a new survey that shows vice president harris is leading in several battleground states. we'll look at the new numbers. plus, we'll speak with the former u.s. ambassador to russia john sullivan as he speaks of his time in russia and what he saw in putin's effort. >> and liuzza colon-zayas from "the bear" joins us. she is awesome on that show and now nominated for an emmy. "morning joe" is coming right back. emmy. "morning joe" is coming right back have in house. more than 30% of the fortune 500 use upwork because this is how we work now. why do couples a sleep number smart bed? i need help with her snoring. more than 30% of the fortune 500 use upwork sleep number does that. thank you. during our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed and free delivery when you add any base.

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we asked 100 normal people. >> why would people in wisconsin want to have a beer with you? >> oh, well, i guess i -- i guess they would -- they would want to have a beer with me because i actually do like to drink beer. chirmt. >> it's a simple question.

>> interesting little story. >> likes beating people. >> socializing. >> i probably like to strike beer a little bit too much. >> that's the worst answer you can give. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> this is a good them. i think the second or third. >> yeah. it is wednesday, august 14. jonathan lemire and mike barnicle with us and joining us the conversation the host of the broadcast on brand with donny deutsch and amy walter for the cook report and jonathan martin is with us. j. mart >> all right. >> j.mart. >> good morning. >> j. mart, other than that, what else have you got today? what are you working today? >> you'll have to wait a couple of days. got lots of stuff cooking. lots cooking. >> why don't you come on in a couple of days instead of now?

>> i'll come back. >> i had to whet your appetite first, brother. got to the lay the groundwork first. i'll come back. i'm not going anywhere. >> oh, thank you. >> that's a long play why there. >> aim, why don't you tell us something new that you have today. >> wow. >> it's so funny, aim. i think when you were here before. july. we were talking about joe biden. the trump people were talking about how they were going to win. they were measuring the curtains, et cetera, et cetera. i think we all said it's only july. now we can say it's only august so it's still, still early, you go, again, quoting churchill for the 18th time. at least it's sort of the end of the beginning. we're about to get into the full swing of the cane. >> oh, yeah. >> you've got new numbers from swing states. what are you finding? >> yeah. you're right. this has has been reset, certainly since may, but even since july when president biden

dropped out. look, back in may we did. we say biden trailing in all of the swing states or at best tied. right now harris is either leading or tied with trump in those swing states. there's one state, nevada, which she's still trailing in, but overall if you look at the seven swing states, harris is within the margin but up 48/47. biden was down by three points so it's a reset. to me what's the most remarkable piece of this poll. it's what we've been seeing in surveys now that have been coming out in the last week or so how little she has been burdened, shall we say, by her association with the administration. she's the sitting vice president and yet 59% of voters in these swing states think that she is basically the change candidate. she's turning the page from trump and biden.

she a generational change obviously, but they believe that, too, and even though trump is ahead on issues like immigration and the economy, on inflation, obviously the number one issue for so many voters, she's only trailing trump by six points. i think if biden -- were biden in this race it would be a much bigger margin. >> amy, when you were here last with those polls that showed so much of this race had swung towards donald trump, there was, as you know, among democrats a sense of resignation. >> yes. >> mid-summer. the debate was a disaster. joe biden, we love the guy but he's too old. i'm not going to vote for donald trump and i think i'm sitting this one out. is that what this is about? >> those voters who were parking for themselves saying i'm going to vote for rfk jr. or undecided have now all come back to democrats. what's interesting, too, is rfk jr. now is more of a problem for trump than he is for -- for

harris. again, many of her voters now coming back to her, but the rfk voter is just by profile is somebody who should be or would be -- would be more interested in voting for donald trump. >> so amy, is it overstating it to indicate that -- that the movement of voters back towards the vice president were sitting on the fence or just not thinking about things? >> yeah. >> is it a combination of relief and gratitude among voters, gratitude towards the president for withdrawing and relief, as you pointed out, that a sitting vice president of the united states is now someone new? >> she's new, and i do think -- i do wonder if she weren't a woman, if this weren't as historic as it is, if you would have that level of movement and intensity because she literally is -- even if you don't know much about politics, you're not

following this day to day, you've been hearing and seeing from two older white guys for a long time now and being very uninspired by it, and then all of a sudden here comes this woman who doesn't look or act or sound like anything you've seen before in politics and suddenly it's like, huh, i'm -- i'm going to listen in so she's getting a benefit of the doubt that is quite remarkable for a sitting vice president. >> j. mart about what we're seeing here transit, not that donald trump is losing support, but rather that kamala harris has gained support, reconsolidated as amy said. >> exactly. >> and it's particularly of note as you talk to democrats how they feel. younger voters coming home and certainly voters of color, and that's just a coalition that she has to build, particularly in the suburbs and the big cities in these battleground states. >> yeah. it feels like folks coming home rather than her moving undecided voters to the democratic column. i mean, there's obviously a huge difference.

now in an era of polarization, getting democrats to come home and getting them motivated is crucial because mobilization matters. i don't think it matters as much as persuasion, but mobilization matters a lot. the keith for her is going to be the next phase which is persuasion, which is moving undecided voters to the democratic column. those numbers you guys flashed on the screen for the vp are positive vis-a-vis where biden was, but they are still challenging for a democratic candidate for president. look, it's not ideal to be losing narrowly in nevada and to be basically tied in pennsylvania right now because if you lose those two states, the path to the white house gets really complicated for a democrat, but obviously this is a lot better than where they were a two months ago. also guys, it's important to point out what she's also done, she's stabilized down ballot. speaking of democrats coming home, there were so many house and senate democratic candidates who were worried that they were now toast because biden was so weak on top of the ticket. at the very least now, she's

helped stabilize candidates who were looking for volunteers, who were looking for -- for support, looking for contributions and all of that was drying up over the summer. now at least i think a lot of folks down ballot feel better about their chances. >> yeah. in a race like this, a rising tide really does lift all boats. democrats don't like that. >> yes. >> it really does, and that's exactly what's happening here. donny, i was saying that evidence that young voters were coming home to democrats was anecdotal before. now we see the numbers that that is happening. i suspect it will continue to happen, but, you know, that was joe biden's biggest challenge as has been pointed out here. it's not that donald trump is losing voters. it's that kamala harris is picking up voters that were staying away. younger voters coming home, people of color.

voters coming home, women, more women moving to kamala harris and her direction. especially important though, even though they don't vote as much as older voters, younger voters, the energy that is now behind kamala harris is just so striking, and i say that mainly anecdotally. >> yeah. >> but there are so many younger voters that were going to sit it out and just had no connection to joe biden but now want to volunteer, that want to go to rallies, that want to make phone calls. it's -- it's pretty striking just the difference a month makes. >> two words, and you guys have talked about it. hope and change. if you look back, the last 30 years when the democrats have had that enthusiasm, that kind of wave that we're feeling with bill clinton. i worked on bill clinton's campaign in 1992, did advertising and, of course, with barack obama. you had that hope and change.

hillary clinton, you couldn't sell that, and she lost. joe biden, he won, he squeaked it out, but there wasn't that enthusiasm. why? because you couldn't sell hope and change. when you have that, you're almost unbeatable. that's kind of what you mentioned. every constituency, young people, people of color. they want hope. they want change. pretty much everybody wants, that even if you're happy in your life. you want more hope, yeah. you want more change, yeah. that's the thing. that's the wave that's happening, and that's what the cook report is saying. that's what all the anecdotal things are saying, so when you have that, as i said, those magical two words and donald trump can stand on his head. there's one thing he can't give you is change and certainly can't give you hope he's going in the opposite direction. once again bill clinton and barack obama and chairies, hope and change. >> the word you keep hearing hat these rall sis joy. they are happy to be there and enthusiastic and you contrast with donald trump on x for two hours with elon musk just laying out his grievances, a very different picture there.

a number inside your report that will hearten the harris campaign which is the independent number which three months ago that donald trump in your analysis plus three. now harris plus 8. that's a huge number. >> that's a huge movement and a lot of independent women that are coming over and right now supporting harris. i think, you know, to jonathan's point when you look at who the undecided voters are, people who are still saying maybe i'll vote third party, they are very cross-pressured on the following. they feel very anxious about the economy. they do feel like inflation is getting worse at a higher level than the overall electorate. they don't like donald trump personally. i feel like we're rerubbing this same playbook now for a long time of voters who say, well, i mean, i kind of liked his policies when he was president. i don't really like how he acts, and so those voters, how harris talks to those voters, how she's able to, as jonathan pointed

out, persuade them that she's going to be able to -- to deliver for them, and more important if trump can stay on the message about the economy, but, again, i feel like we've had this conversation over and over again. >> yes. >> if only he would stick to a message on the thing that he's actually winning on. >> yeah. that -- that's -- a lot of people inside the campaign and the republican party would like him to do the same thing. he's not. j. mart, i wand to underline something that you said. it's so important for people watching. yes, these numbers have shifted where we are right now though. if you look at all these numbers, kind of where we were a month ago as far as this race being close. this is still tied. this race is tied right now. >> yeah. >> now it's tied with with a slight lean to harris. >> yes. >> a month ago it was tied with a slight lean except in nevada in north carolina.

if you look at those numbers in may with a slight lean in all the states that really make a huge difference. so it's harris plus two now in arizona. it was plus one. tied in georgia, it was trump plus three. you go down this list. everything except for nevada and north carolina, those are all within the margin of error. >> yeah. >> this race is tied. >> yeah. joad, we're in an era of political trench warfare. this is world war i in american politics. amy mentioned the same conversation that we've all been having for nine years. yeah, because we're 51/49 country and democrats have an advantage, but obviously we have an electoral college, not a popular vote, so it's a tossup country and has been now for the last three presidential elections. two things. first of all, if you look at georgia and north carolina in that graphic you just showed. this is important to focus on, too. it does show the possibility

that kamala harris could galvanize black voters in a way that we haven't seen since 12 in american politics. look at that number there where she obviously has moved numbers in georgia and north carolina, both states with significant black populations. boy, if she can win georgia and north carolina, that really, really changes the equation because obviously it crease less pressure on her to carry all three of those states in the great lakes. one other fast point, joe, i would add that kamala has something else going her which is lub. she has a third-party democratic canned dad with with a guild will name who has run as as right wing trump adjacent crack pot with stories about his odd behavior and he hasn't campaigned since may she's been gifted a third-party challenger who is really falling i think because of his own actions.

i think that that has been helpful, too, aim, that she's not had somebody taking votes a la ross perot from her flank that could have been damaging. >> senior politico -- >> really quickly. >> yeah. >> really quickly. >> the other jonathan and mike barnicle, jonathan lemire. >> this is not really quickly. >> donald trump is not campaigning. i mean, we can't underline this enough. he -- he -- he's just not campaigning much. he's golfing. he went on an interview with elon musk. she's basically running against a guy that instead of a rose garden strategy has a mar-a-lago strategy but that's probably because based on reporting his people are afraid of him going out there right now because what he might say. >> i think there's apprehension from his staff. there's overconfidence. a few weeks ago they thought he

was going to win and win big. he was settling in for a very quiet summer, that he didn't think he'd have to do that much campaigning because he didn't think his opponent, president joe biden was going to either. trump is heading to north carolina tailed but that's his first battleground appearance in weeks, and we should note, mike barnicle, that vice president harris is having a really aggressive campaign strategy. she just had this barnstorming tour last week with her new running mate and will be in north carolina this weekend and they are already announcing the democratic convention is next week but she will be doing a bus tour on sunday in pennsylvania and holding her own rally in milwaukee, the site that -- the same arena where the republican convention was. she will have a rally there next week ahead of heading to chicago. >> and the big thing is when donald trump wakes up in the morning and looks in the mirror he sees an old, tired and disordernented man who is unused to his opponent, been surprised by his opponent and aim, i don't know, do you pick up any anecdotal evidence in your polling about people who are just exhausted and tired of the

past? >> that's why the -- turning the page exactly. >> looking forward to tomorrow. you see that in advertising right now that the super pac with harris talks about all about turning the page and change. >> hope and change. >> senior political communist for politico jonathan martin and political reporter for the cook report, aim, thank you for joining us. >> it's sort of like donald trump always two weeks away interest his health care plan and j. mart three days away from breaking news. i love it. >> always. >> all right. >> free beer tomorrow. >> yeah. >> okay. >> that's it. >> all right. joining us now, senior adviser and senior spokesperson for the harris campaign ayden elrod. great to see you.

so the campaign, the harris campaign and the candidate have a lot of plans in the days to come. tell us about them, including fund-raising. >> yeah, absolutely, mika. great to be back with us this morning. you both were having a lot of fun with j. mart. enjoyed listening to that conversation. as you mentioned. the vice president will be traveling as well as governor walz raising money and talking directly to voters. also, the vice president is going to be giving a major speech in friday on north carolina really laying out some of the top lines of her economic agenda. obviously we talked a lot about it on this show. she and president biden have gotten a lot done for the american people. they have created over 15.5 million jobs and courting, 800,000 manufacturing jobs, passed four major economic bills, but she is also going to lay out her own vision for the economy, somehow she's going to continue to lower costs for families, how she's going toe continue to put consumers first and corporations last when it comes, to you know, who her priorities are for her economic agenda so she's going to lay out

her vision in north carolina on friday. of course, you mentioned the bus tour in pennsylvania and then next week's convex which i can tell you, i've been working on it, it's going to be really incredible. she will have a clans, you know, along with many other stars in the democratic party to talk about the democratic party's vision for this country, the fact that we're moving forward past versus future, a thing that you hear a lot on this campaign. you'll see that played out next week in chicago at the convention, so a lot of great stuff coming up, mika, you know, we're raising a lot of money on this campaign and we're also spending a lot of money on this campaign on advertising, on different ways to reach voters. you know, she's traveling to states, the governor is traveling to states taking their message directly to voters drawing large crowds wherever they go, 15,000 in detroit. i think we about 14,000 in nevada recently, so, you know, we need to make sure that we have money to fuel this campaign. we need to make sure that we've

taking nothing for granted and we're spending and raising the resources to make sure we can win this campaign. >> how are you? congratulations on a great start to the campaign. you talked about advertising. you have a chunk of money to spend, and there's two very distinct paths and both of them are fruits that can be borne out of them. one is continuing obviously on kamala herself and the message of hope and change and the excitement there, but earlier in the show, they put up ten insane things that donald trump said in the last week or so and can you clearly run on a guy who is not well, not sick. there's something wrong with him, and those are two very distinct paths. how do you juggle those. >> well, that's a great question, donny, and you certainly understand because have you a lot of experience and expertise in the advertising business. look, the bottom line is this. you have to run a two-track campaign, right? you have to make sure that every single american, every single voter understands what your vision is for this country. vice president harris has a forward-looking vision where

she's putting american families first. she wants to build out the middle class and wants to continue to reduce costs for american families. donald trump has an agenda that is divisive. project 2025, something we talk a lot about on this campaign, something we talk a lot about on this show. it would be very dangerous if enact. it would significantly limit women's reproductive choices more so than already. it woman power the president to a level that's almost one that is an authoritarian presidency. it would eliminate the department of education, you know. many economists have said that a project 2025 implemented kur country would immediately go into recession because of the dangerous economic policies, so when it comes to how we communicate with voters, how we decide, you know, how we're going to spend our advertising dollars we run a two-track process. one to make sure that every american and every voter understands vice president's agenda, hays's agenda, but also one that understands and makes sure that every american understands how dangerous a

donald trump 2.0 presidency would be. >> senior adviser and senior spokesperson for the harris campaign, ayden elrod. thanks so much for coming on this morning. >> thanks. missouri will now join a number of states this november voting to decide whether to reverse a near total ban on abortion. we'll discuss the health concerns for women across the concern with the head of the center for reproductive rights. plus, former u.s. ambassador to russia, john sullivan is standing by. we'll talk to him about the war in ukraine and how it has changed in the two and a half years since moscow's invasion. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. asion. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back.

7. 28 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at the white house on a sunny summer morning in d.c. ukraine's surprise incursion into russia has renewed discussions surrounding the conflict that began ten years ago when rush first invaded the country illegally and annexed the crimean peninsula. in february of 2022, russia launched a full-scale invasion of ukraine which has become the largest ground conflict in europe since world war ii. john sullivan served as u.s. ambassador to russia during the first critical months of

ukraine's fight two and a half years ago, and he joins us now. he's also a former u.s. deputy secretary of state and out now with a new book entitled "midnight in moscow, a memoir from the front lines of russia's war against the west." >> mr. ambassador, thanks so much for being with us. we want to get into the book. it's fascinating reading, but let's start with what's happening right now in russia in that fight. what's your take on the incursion into russia by the ukrainians? >> well, thanks. it's great to be with you uncertain significant development. putin has had to address it. he is i believe going to respond quite vigorously to this. it's an invasion. the ukrainians have seized the last statistic i saw was over 1,000 kilometers of russian territory. ukrainian troops are coming en masse. putin has been embarrassed.

his military, particularly in that region, a critical region by the way for russia with gas trans mission facilities, a major nuclear power plant, russians pro-putin and pro-war russians are asking putin how could this have happened? how could we have let our defenses down and allow ukraine to invade russia? so the ukrainian troops are coming into russia and saying, okay. putin, you wanted ukraine to be part of russia, how do you like this way of ukraine becoming part of russia? >> mr. ambassador, i'm going ask you two questions. you obviously, you were there on the ground in the lead-up for a couple of years leading up to the war. i want to ask you, i don't know whether i should ask you how we missed this or i'll just say how surprised have you been, first of all, how weak russia's military machine has proven to be over the past couple of years, and secondly were you

surprised by how much our european allies are lined up assed a missile stavridis said earlier on the show today. the europeans are actually giving as much money or more in terms of support for the ukrainians. those two things, i've got to say i was caught off guard by both of them. i'm curious what your insights are. >> yeah. so with respect to the performance of the russian military, yes, i was surprised at how inept this special military operation was, particularly in the first few months. i knew from my conversations with senior russian officials that they were -- they before the war started were very confident in their ability to -- to capture what they, you know, the territory they wanted in ukraine. they had their general officers, their senior military leaders, who were going into ukraine were instructed to bring their dress uniforms for them with victory parades, so their performance

putin has since admitted candidly, he was surprised by how badly they -- they have performed. but the important thing to remember, this has been a pattern not just for the russian federation but previously for the soviet union and the russian empire before the soviet union. russia, you know, has an early bad response to an invasion but over time but sheer mass overcomes the invader whether it's napoleon or hitler and in this case putin is rallying his country in the defense industrial base to deful tries and denazify ukraine. >> willie, such a great point about -- about russian's history, even pre- -- even going back toll soviet union before the soviet union.

you look at world war i. the russian army doing so much more poorly than expected. you look at the war against finland. i think it was 39 and 40. you look at world war ii. it always seems the same. russia is always -- their power is already overestimated and then they have that initial collapse. the question is can they hold on long enough with all of these casualties and with all of the economic damage to keep the war going for the next few years. that was my question for the u.s. you understand vladimir putin so well and understand russia so well, so in your cries what is the best possible outcome for the way that ends, and on the other side, what's the outcome you fear the most, i think everybody wants this, maybe not putin, but everybody wants this to end for the sake of the ukrainian people. what do you view as the best possible way for that to happen? >> well, i think we have to start from the premise that putin is not only -- he's not

going to surrender his war aims. he'll never compromise. he can't. he can't survive if hoe compromises, but more than that, within his very russian soul, he believes in the righteousness of this special military operation. he will never compromise. he will never negotiate in good faith. he is going to achieve his war ages no matter what. the ukrainians are just as adamant and the ukrainian people, i have many ukrainian friends who were russianopiles, spoke russian in, and the brutality of this invasion has drive ukrainians so far and ukrainians, the most of them, the vast majority, so far from russia, that it's impossible to see how they are going to get along, so my -- i think the most

we can hopes for is given russia's size and, you know, the military that it can muster is a stalemate for the foreseeable future, and my fear is because ukraine's population, its industrial base is so much smaller, without substantial support from the west there's the potential for russia's material to overrun ukraine and sackiev, which was putin's objective on 24022, he hasn't achieved it yet but hasn't given up on it yet. >> parts of your book read like an autopsy, a forensic autopsy of putin's mind and the workings inside the -- the kremlin, the kremlin. but my question to you has to do with that, with putin's mind. what is his obsession with

kidnapping, literally kidnapping so many americans? >> well, he believes he's at war with the united states. he says we are his enemy. hence, the title of my book. he -- it's not a metaphor for him. he is at war. it's a hybrid war. americans are targets anywhere, and certainly in russia. so any american, i advise that my family and friends did not travel to russia. americans, it's -- it's. there is no rule of law in russia to protect americans or russians, innocent russians for that matter, so, mike, it's all part of a hybrid war against the united states. >> his war on power and hold on power challenged occasionally since his time ascending there in the kremlin. my question is what comes next in your best estimates? what does a post putin russia

look like? first of all, i have to wonder how long that's going to take. the russian constitution was recently amended, as you know, to allow him to serve inform theory until 2036 when he'd be well into his 80s, but a post-putin russia, i've had many russian friends, including pro-putin russians who have warned me be careful what you wish for because because a successor to putin may be worse. there's a strain of russian nationallism that putin taps into that many russians believe putin is really exercising in some ways a check on and a voice we hear in russian state media who are calling for outright war against the west, the nuclear saber-rattling. putin's successor could be even worse. >> i thank you for saying that, mr. ambassador. i've said that on this show quite a bit that you think vladimir putin is bad.

just wait, and -- and -- and look at who his successor may be. and putin is attached to the old world that we remember. who knows if a radical nationalist comes in and is more willing to use those nuclear weapons. i want to finish by asking you about the book. it reads, again, like -- it actually -- those moments where it's leaning in and the actual invasion, and watching back to your office again. again, it reads like a daniel silva novel. i'm curious. what do you think americans can learn the most from your book? from your memoir? >> well, i hope that the message that i conveyed, the reason i wrote the book it's a warning that the russian federation under vladimir putin is an enemy of the united states.

we here particularly at the state department where i was proud to serve of for six years, we talk about as verseries and competitors. putin doesn't think that way. we're an enemy, and my fear is that we in the united states, our political division, our debates about whether to support ukraine, we're really asleep and not fully tuned into the threat that russia and the prc frankly, along with iran and north korea, pose to global peace and security, and i'm reminded and i write about world war ii quite a bit throughout -- throughout my book, and one thing i'm reminded of is how, you know, there was a theme after the second world war, well, actually before, during and after the war about how the west, the united states, england was asleep. churchill's famous work while england slept which was a collection of his speeches before the second world war,

jfk's senior thesis at harvard, why england slept, and, of course, the famous book about pearl harbor at dawn we slept. my fear is america is asleep right now, and there's a threat growing, particularly in moscow that is as serious as -- as any i believe in my lifetime, and we're not focused on it in the serious way that it needs to be focused on. >> the new book does that. it's entitled midnight in moscow, a memoir from the front lines of russia's war against the west. former u.s. ambassador to russia, john sullivan, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> my pleasure. good to be with you. >> we appreciate it. and coming up, more states are adding abortion initiatives to their november election ballots, but the danger to women is playing out right now in real life. we are hearing harrowing stories from pregnant women in states with the most restricted

abortion bans who say they are being denied emergency medical procedures, including one texas woman who says she almost died waiting for the care she needed. "morning joe" will be right back. she needed. "morning j" oewill be right back

the fade of abortion rights will soon be on the ballots in many states. nbc's laura jarrett has more on

how the fall of "roe v. wade" has impacted women across the country. >> a constitutional amendment in missouri that would wipe out the state's mere total ban on abortion now set to appear on the ballot this november while abortion rights organizers in the swing state of arizona shattered records with more than half a million signatures to get their proposed amendment add. >> this initiative has made the ballot. >> missouri and arizona joining a growing list of states, all with similar ballot measures that would create a new right to abortion up to the point of fetus can survive around 24 weeks, something opponents say goes too far. this ballot push the by-product of the supreme court overturning the right to an abortion allowing each state to pass their own restriction, laws now increasing scrutiny as new data emerges about what's been happening in hospitals. a new analysis of federal records by the a.p. showing more than 100 pregnant women with

medical emergencies like ectopic pregnancy denied care in the e.r. since rowe was ore turned as doctors tell nbc news they are navigating vague laws that don't account for medical nuances. >> there's so much fear and confusion because the -- an ectopic can have a heartbeat. >> carly had an ectopic pregnancy and was originally denied an abortion in texas despite the law making an exception for such emergencies. then it ruptured >> i want to have kids, and i wanted to keep my fallopian tube, but now it's gone. a piece of my womanhood was taken. >> shy along with another patient in texas now calling on the biden administration to investigate. >> i had to fight like hell to get my care and i still didn't get it fast enough. >> so a little bit more now on that associated press analysis that laura mentioned in her

report. according to the ap, two women, one in florida and one in texas, were left to miscarry in public restaurants. in arkansas a woman went into septic shock and her fetus died after an emergency room sent her home. at least four other women with ectopic pregnancies had trouble getting treatment, including one in california who needed a blood trans fusion after she sat for nine hours in an emergency waiting room. the biden administration says hospitals must offer abortions when needed to save a woman's life despite state bans enacted after the supreme court overturned "roe v. wade" more than two years ago. joining us now the president and the ceo of the center for reproductive rights nancy northrup. her organization's attorneys are representing two women and their complaints. also with us, former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance.

thank you both for being with us. nancy, i guess it's an understatement that the cases that you're representing and that you're talking about were preventable but for those laws. am i wrong? >> yeah. what happened to these women should frighten anybody who lives in a state where abortion is banned. the women in the complaint that we filed with the federal government almost died. they had ectopic pregnancies, a pregnancy growing in the fallopian tube. that cannot survive, and it is life-threatening to -- to women, and yet they were denied care when they went to the hospital. they had to be on death's door before they got abortion care because it is just dangerous to live in any state where abortion is banned. you don't know if your pregnancy is going to be the one that has such a complication that it threatens your life. >> now, i've heard of these

complications. they're not very unusual situations. joyce vance, how important are these lawsuits and do you agree, but for these laws, these women wouldn't be in this situation? >> well, i think that's absolutely right. but for the end of roe v. wade, but for dobbs, which permitted all of the states to adopt these bans, we wouldn't in this position. and the work that nancy is doing is incredibly important. these are complaints that are filed administratively to try to get to the bottom of what went on here and expose these facts. on a parallel track, the biden administration is trying to get this law back in front of the supreme court. last term, they had a case from idaho, and they ducked the issue. now they're being asked to revisit this law and assure doctors that they can give

emergency care without facing some of the draconian penalties. >> nancy, can you speak now that we're just over two years since the end of roe, by the supreme court, donald trump appoints the three justices and 50 years of law is overturned. can you just speak generally to how reproductive rights have changed on the ground, as a practical question, that it's not some abstract thing, but what it's like to be a woman in some of these states? >> absolutely, you know, we have 14 states that have banned abortion and counting, more ban abortion earlier in pregnancy. and in those states, you cannot get abortion care. and they claim to have exceptions, you know, for health, but we're seeing right here with these, even with ectopic pregnancies, pregnancies growing in the fallopian tube, you can't get care. you either have to leave the state, but you can't if you're in the middle of a medical emergency. you're in the er. you need care right then. and doctors, you know, in texas, they're looking down 99 years in

prison, right? and so they can't provide the care they need. looking over their shoulder at whether they're going to be prosecuted. >> right. nancy, i'm curious that one of the women that we're looking at in these terrible cases is from california. california doesn't have the ban. does it speak to the confusion that doctors and hospitals are facing when dealing with women with complications in their pregnancies when they come into the ers? >> well, the california case, you know, may be one where it was delayed care, she was in the er. but what you see in states where abortion is banned, is that they are really frightened to act. that is just the case. you know, we have sued texas on behalf of a lot of women who had a need for abortion. the standard care that in the past, they would have been given, when they're in a pregnancy complication. and again, you don't know if your pregnancy is going to result in a complication. like, people didn't think about

that when roe v. wade was overturned. that it makes every single pregnant person in a state potentially threatening to be able to lose their lives because of these abortion bans. >> joyce, i want to follow up with what nancy just said about the prosecution part of this, for the provider, for the doctor, for the clinic, that now suddenly is in legal jeopardy. your analysis as a lawyer, how sound is this reasoning? is there anything, appeals courts that could look at it? give us your take of this overview? >> of course, every state has its own law, different laws, but these laws are now constitutional, following the supreme court's decision in dobbs, and just like any other state law, if you have a willing attorney general and many of the states that have banned abortion do, then that attorney general can begin to pursue these sorts of prosecutions when they decide the timing is right. and very often, that timing has more to do with politics than what makes sense for women's lives. >> all right.

we would love to track these cases and more as they come to you. president and ceo for the center for reproductive rights, nancy northrop, please come back. thank you so much for coming on this morning. and msnbc legal analyst, as always, joyce advance, thank you both very much. joyce, of course, co-host of the famous sisters-in-law podcast. still ahead, another prominent republican is calling on donald trump to change his messaging on vice president kamala harris. we'll play for you those comments. and we'll go through the growing list of bizarre claims from the former president that he said on the campaign trail. "morning joe" is coming right back. campaign trail "morning joe" is coming right back ♪ ♪ not every decision you make will be as good as getting a volkswagen at the savvy vw summer sales event.

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the republican party needs to make a serious shift here. and the first thing is, the republican party, donald trump, people here at fox, quit complaining that she's not giving an interview. you don't need an interview from kamala harris. we need him to win, but you've got to go out and do the work. the one thing republicans have to stop -- quit whining about her. i want this campaign to win, but the campaign is not going to win talking about crowd sizes. it's not going to win talking about what race kamala harris is. it's not going to win talking about whether she's dumb. it's not -- you can't win on those things. the american people are smart. treat them like they're smart. >> former republican presidential candidate nikki haley with some advice for her party. >> truth. it's not hard. they're just whining. it doesn't work. right, willie? it doesn't work. and she's the one -- remember,

she's the one who said, if you elect donald trump, if you nominate donald trump, he's going to lose. >> yeah. >> she warned them. she's warning them again. and good for her for going on fox, issuing the warning. >> yeah, down to our last day in new hampshire, she was saying, when you lose in november, don't come crying to me. i'm warning you now, he's going to lose in november. and as we pointed out yesterday, she is just the latest in the people supporting donald trump, some of those very close to donald trump saying, you've got to knock this off. you have to stop going out and posting wild conspiracy theories about crowd sizes, talking about her race and everything else and focus on the issues. but as we know well, and everyone knows well, this is not a man who is going to change who he is and suddenly become a great policy wonk. this is who he is. he's guided by his own grievance. and he's upset that kamala harris in this moment is getting the better of him. >> absolutely. >> and you know, it's just -- a lot of times, you've got

politicians that have issues that won't work for them, right? >> right. >> and so they try to distract. and they try to do this and that. the weird thing about republicans, and i've felt this way since donald trump got -- i think most americans agree with them on basic economic issues. and on the border, and on all of these other issues. unfortunately, they killed the border bill. but the thing is, if they argue the issues, they've got a better than even chance of winning. but they don't argue the issues. they just refuse to. >> and some may be trying to, but it comes back to the candidate himself. and he tends to talk about sizes of crowds or stomachs and so it's sort of hard to -- it's hard to campaign on that, as nikki haley said it herself, it's hard to campaign on negativity. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire, msnbc contributor mike barnicle,

president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton, and managing editor at the bulwark, sam stine is with us this morning. in an effort to blunt the momentum of vice president kamala harris, donald trump is headed to north carolina later today for a rally in asheville, that his campaign is touting as a significant economic address. it's been 16 years since a democrat won the state and it's 16 electoral votes when barack obama prevailed there in 2008. trump won north carolina in 2020 by less than 75,000 votes. >> and sam stine, it's pretty simple math, when you look at these states, especially in the south, one of the reasons georgia tipped first to democrats, the way it has to, is because atlanta is such a massive urban center, so big and the suburbs that actually the rural votes can come in overwhelmingly for donald trump and it doesn't matter.

north carolina is moving into that direction, and people expect north carolina eventually to tip democratic, as charlotte and other cities get bigger. you also -- you have a good-sized black vote. you have a good-sized educated vote there with all of the schools. so north carolina could tip -- and i think most democrats think, maybe four, eight years, it's going to be solidly blue. but what you have with donald trump and just an absolutely radical republican gubernatorial candidate, is giving democrats and the harris campaign hope that they can take it this year like barack obama did once. >> north carolina is kind of in the stubborn, annoying little state -- not little, pretty big state, democrats have tried to get again and again. it's been fool's gold. part of the reason is, it hasn't had that same type of conversion.

but for, you know, the past couple of months, the biden administration, now the harris people have looked at it and said, we have a real chance of flipping this. i think the fact that trump is showing up there today is a real sign that they're nervous about the state. i think joe hit it on the head, the fact that mark robson is on the head of the gubernatorial ticket of republicans, really a radical figure, all things considered, this could be the state that kind of under the radar harris could flip, which makes her path to getting to 270 a lot easier. suddenly, you don't have to be so preoccupied with michigan or wisconsin. obviously, pennsylvania is huge. you still need to have that one, but yeah, north carolina is one of those under the radar targets for arrest. >> it is, john, extraordinary, too, to think about where we were a month ago, when joe biden was viewed as being the nominee, obviously. talking about states like minnesota, maybe going republican, that they were going to lose democratic strongholds. they're throwing about new jersey, forget nevada and

georgia and arizona, and all the other places they started to write off. that dynamic has changed completely. now we're talking about georgia, arizona, nevada, and maybe north carolina now tipping in the direction of kamala harris. a total flip in the way we're viewing the map at this point. >> here's how things changed. during the republican national convention, the biden team put out a campaign memo that basically said, our only path to victory was wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania. that's the only way they could do it. at the same time, the republicans gave a briefing to reporters at the convention saying, north carolina's in the bag. we're not even going to worry about that. what happened this week? donald trump showing up in north carolina, what else happened this week, they put in an ad buy in north carolina. that shows you how they are now concerned about that state. vice president harris will also be north carolina this week. she'll be there friday, mike barnicle, and interestingly, both of the candidates are using that state to talk about the economy. trump is going to talk about it today, obviously complaints about inflation and deriding

what they've seen from the biden white house, and kamala harris on friday in raleigh is going to defend the record of the economy and try to silence some people who think that's one of her vulnerabilities. >> you know, to willie's point, the sea change in american politics over just the past few weeks has been astounding. as you have indicated. president biden was supposed to be on the ballot three or four weeks ago. and all the numbers never state were going the wrong way. now, it's completely flip-flopped, including north carolina, which is now in contention. and i would submit there's one other element to be added to this conversation. i think there's going to be another sea change after the first debate that occurs between donald trump and kamala harris. when a black woman in the ring cuffs him around, which she will, i think he will go bananas in public. and that will change everything. >> i agree with you. i think the fact that this black

woman is going to be standing there equal to him is already unnerving to him. but for him to be able to prosecute the case, when a few days later, he has to actually go to a sentencing for his 34fulness, i think that he's on edge. i think that people don't understand that not only has he naturally lost it, the man is looking at a sentencing date. i don't know why we keep avoiding the fact, we talk about from debate to debate. the man doesn't know what the judge is going to do on the 18th. >> an almost 80-year-old man. he's got to live with that. and then talking about north carolina. i think that not only has it changed -- i spent some time in north carolina last month, i preached to the church in winston-salem, and then did the convention, and i'm so sick of

all of the math, i'm bringing joe scarborough with me, he's not a deacon, he's a friend of mine. but what has happened is also this bizarre gubernatorial candidate that the republicans have, who is a black man, who says blacks ought to be paying reparations more whites for taking care of us during slavery. this is literally a quote. that is going to help kamala harris immeasurably. >> yeah -- >> that moves perfectly into our next story. >> it really does. and you look again at what mike and reverend al say about a black woman debating him. you can really take "black" off of that and just say "woman" and see how much women get under his skin. how much hillary clinton got under his skin, how much e. jean carroll and her attorney got under his skin.

it's really -- >> oh, we know. >> he's shown it throughout his life. and you add the fact that she's a black woman and i'm sure that makes it even more maddening for him. >> "the washington post" is highlighting what it's calling donald trump's laundry list of increasingly bizarre claims. "the post's" analysis reads, quote, it's difficult to try to compare the relative ridiculousness of trump's claims over time, but there is no question he has pushed the envelope in new and astonishing ways. let's recap ten of the most recent examples. number one, his claim last week that a massive crowd at a rally for vice president kamala harris, quote, didn't exist and nobody was there. trump wrote on social media that photos and videos of the crowd were ai generated, which they were not. number two, that president joe biden prepared to have the fbi assassinate him when it lawfully seized classified documents from

mar-a-lago in 2022. number three, that it's the democrats and their messaging that's to blame for last month's attempted assassination of trump. let that breathe for a minute. number four, that biden faked having covid-19 last month in the days leading up to his withdrawal from the 2024 race. >> number five. that trump was nearly in a helicopter crash with former san francisco mayor willie brown after brown insisted last week that the incident never happened, a different black lawmaker from california came forward to say it was him in the chopper with trump, not the former mayor. number six, that biden will try to reclaim the democratic nomination at next week's democratic national convention. number seven, that harris only recently started identifying as black. number eight, that the crowd at

his rally on january 6th was bigger than the one martin luther king jr. had for his famous "i have a dream" speech. number nine, that other countries are emptying their prisons and sending criminals to the united states. and number ten, that the democrats want to allow killing babies after birth. >> well, that's a -- that is a -- that's an oldie -- >> an oldie, but a sicky. >> that they have lied about for a very long time. >> so, jonathan lemire, yesterday, jonathan shay wrote a column for "new york" magazine talking about the real media bias. and that it's not on the left against the right, against donald trump, that, in fact, it is the mainstream media desperate to just keep this narrative going, that this is an election just like any other. that acting like it's clinton

versus dole in 1996, ignoring these extraordinarily bizarre claims, that would be disqualifying. and i've seen it time and again. a lot of people that sit around and, you know, oh, my god, the media. it's so biased. it's so biased against donald trump. then donald trump will go out and say that a crowd of 10,000, 15,000 doesn't exist, and it's ai generated. and they'll just kind of sit there, and then go, you know, when is kamala harris going to have her first sit-down interview with george stephanopoulos? you're sitting there going, wait, don't we stop the presses on that? don't we stop the presses when he makes up stories about willie brown and the helicopter crash? don't we stop the presses? you can go down this list of ten that joe biden -- there's going to be a coup in chicago, and joe biden is going to be riding in with -- on a white stallion with us. so there's just -- i exaggerate a bit on that one, but all of these things are just crazy.

and yet the press, will just take it in, because they're so numb to it, and they'll go, what do you suspect her economic theory is going to be on quantitative easing? and when is she going to reveal it? it's just madness. >> you hit a key word there, is "numb." i think the media and a lot of americans have just grown used to the insane ramblings from donald trump. and i think sometimes, that the media struggles to give him the coverage they deserve. now, i think that the press has done better in 2024, than it did in 2016, to be sure. progress has been made. but there's a long way to go. and part of it is because trump is, as we have discussed on the show a lot, has this fire hose of falsehoods, it's almost tough to keep track of everything that he does, to put it in the proper context. i also think that the mainstream media -- and i won't speak for everyone, but certainly outlets have suggested this, that there is this perception that the media is liberal, the mainstream media, and in an effort to bend

over backwards to prove that they are not, they sometimes overcompensate and they're not as critical of the republican candidates as they should be. but willie, i think what this show has been doing all along is focusing on the stakes of the election. we've been calling out donald trump when he lies and his dangerous policies. yes, was there an overkill of coverage about president biden's age? no doubt. this show has also talked about how donald trump is old, too. but i think the key here is to focus on what's at stake this november. and it's sometimes less the day-to-day dramas. but we have to call out what we see. >> yeah, pick your favorite from david letterman's worst-ever top ten list that mika just revealed there. and look at january 6th versus the "i have a dream" speech. he's raising as a point of pride the crowd he sent to the capitol, an attempted coup against the united states government, when the building was defaced, officers were beaten, many of them now going to jail, some of he has supporters, favorably comparing that day, one of the darkest in

our history, to the "i have a dream" speech given by martin luther king. that's who he is. and we have to keep talking about it. that first claim from donald trump on the "washington post" list that vice president harris' crowds are generated by ai, that they're not real. one of the signs senator bernie sanders is pointing out shows trump is setting the stage to deny the results of the 2024 election if he loses in november. part of this numbing we're talking about. in a statement, senator sanders writes, donald trump may be crazy, but he's not stupid. when he claims that nobody showed up at a 10,000 person harris/walz rally in michigan that was live streamed and widely covered by the media, that it was all ai and that democrats cheat all of the time, there is a method to his madness. senator sanders goes on, if you can convince your supporters that thousands of people who attend televised rally do not exist, it will not be hard to convince them that the election returns in pennsylvania, michigan, and elsewhere are fake and fraudulent. this is what destroying faith in

institutions is about. this is what undermining democracy is about. this is what fascism is about, rev. and this is what he's done from the beginning. undermine the institutions so that you don't believe your own eyes, you believe only his voice. >> and i agree with senator sanders. he's preparing us to deny the election results in november, because he believes he has a chance of losing, and so do most people at this point. and i think again, your point, i don't think that people understand how deeply insulting it is to compare the march on washington in '63, where dr. king gave that speech with an attempt to overthrow an election violently, that his followers did, that he was president and sent them to the capitol. i mean, they had national guard ready in '63. mrs. king, i was too young to know dr. king, mrs. king said they expected a riot that day. it was the most non-violent

expression of tens of thousands of people, for the civil rights movement at that time in '63. to compare that to people beating on policeman, law enforcement, and desecrating the capital, in and of itself, ought to insult every american. >> you know, and bernie sanders, everybody needs to really take -- that are interested in what's going on in this country, need to take that to heart. you can go back and look at the rise of other fascist governments, and it's the playbook. it is the playbook that you lie so much that you numb the media, you numb the masses, you numb people and soon they give up on trying to figure out what the truth is. and i hear this from people i grew up with all the time and people i've known for a very long time. they go, oh, you know, joe, i just don't watch news anymore and i don't read news anymore.

you can't tell who's trying the truth and not telling the truth. you talk to them further and ask who they get their news from, and it will be from a conspiracy website that spreads these sort of lies. and so, in part, they get what they're looking for, but also in part, they hear these lies, and again, it numbs them so much, that they just give up. that's exactly what's going on here. and what's the purpose of it? as bernie sanders said, it's to undermine faith in institutions. when you have a presidential candidate, a president at the time saying, don't trust american democracy, because i lost, and you have republicans that follow along and undermine the american institution of democracy, and what trump's own people said was the safest election ever, the cleanest

election ever. and then you have a former president saying don't trust the jury system. and then you have senators like marco rubio going out and saying that trial by jury in the united states of america, with all the checks and balances is no better than castro's cuba, that is the undermining of institutions that radicals on the far left did in the '60s and the '70s. and the conservatives used to push back against. you know, mika, edmond burke said that you can tear down institutions in a day, that it took centuries to build on. >> that's right. >> and that's exactly what's going on here. again, edmond burke, the father of conservatism said, you can tear down institutions in a day, that took centuries to build and the essence of conservatism, to

respect the institutions, protect the institutions, and not the radicals who tried to undermine and tear down those institutions, which sadly is what the so-called conservative party has been doing now for nine years. if their person doesn't win. >> over the course of nine years, if you can believe it. and you think about how this show began 17, 18 years ago with willie, it was supposed to be a discussion, democrat, republican, about ideas, based on facts. and that's what we celebrated. the civil conversation, the joy of debate and disagreeing on issues based on facts. and today we fight for the truth. today, it's a completely different landscape because of what has happened over the past nine years. and as bernie sanders pointed out, if you can take a crowd and make it disappear in people's eyes, then not only is it

fascism, potentially, on its way, or some sort of cult, sam stine, but the bottom line is these people don't have to believe donald trump. the importance is that they don't believe anything. read anne applebaum's book, read madeleine albright's book, listen to what bernie sanders just said, and it's kind of frightening, where this is going. >> yeah, no, i'm in 100% agreement here. joe biden was on cbs over the weekend. he was asked, do you think there'll be a peaceful transition of power after the 2024 election. he said, no, if trump loses, there will not be. and i think, they're not like hiding the ball here. trump has already laid the predicate for challenging the election results. in the house, currently, conservative lawmakers are trying to push legislation that would solve a problem that doesn't exist. that problem is the ability of undocumented immigrants to vote. can't do it. but that is tooling the predicate for challenging a result.

if that legislation doesn't pass and donald trump is to lose, those lawmakers will then say, look, you didn't pass this bill to protect the vote, therefore it was illegally won by kamala harris. so i do worry about what's happening in -- what will happen in the post-election environment, if trump loses. and i think we all should be on guard for it. it's a really troubling, harrowing possibility that we will find ourselves in something even worse, potentially, than what we experienced on january 6th. coming up, a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning, including an update on what initiative is likely to play a big role in president biden's remaining time in office. plus, a change in leadership for one of america's closest allies. that's next on "morning joe." t allies that's next on "morning joe. a caring man took a walk. he saw people suffering. anxiety ran high, hatred rose. i'll prepare a feast and bring them together he thought. but some refused to join him. he was heartbroken because he wanted everyone to be filled.

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effort, that he has championed for years. the initiative is expected to remain a major focus of his remaining time in office. and a military judge is examining defense secretary lloyd austin's decision to rescind plea agreements that would have spared the plotters of 9/11 the death penalty. the war court in guantanamo bay will now assess the legality of the decision. the chief intervened just days after they took capital punishment off the table. coming up, ukraine is pushing deeper into russian territory. we'll talk about that high-stakes incursion and what it means for the long-running war. that's next on "morning joe." l war. that's next on "morning joe.

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russia appears to be re-organizing its forces in the wake of ukraine's incursion. u.s. officials tell "the wall street journal" that russia is withdrawing troops from ukraine to respond to the counterassault. the officials did not specify how many troops have been moved, but it points to the effectiveness of ukraine's gamble. the country's military commander said yesterday that his forces had taken control of 74 russian towns and villages since the incursion was first launched last week. >> let's bring in right now, former supreme allied commander of nato, retired four-star navy admiral, james stavridis. he is a chief international analyst for nbc news. admiral, thanks so much for being with us. i want to read a paragraph in "the new york times" this morning, a column this morning,

article this morning. mostly on the defense and failed counteroffensive last year. ukraine has pushed seven miles into russia along a 25-mile front, and taken dozens of russian soldiers as prisoners. analysts and russian officials say the governor of russia's region said on monday, ukraine controls 28 towns and villages there. more than 132,000 people have been evacuated from nearby areas, russians officials said. and it seems that in this offensive, ukraine has taken more ground in russia than russia has taken in ukraine all year. talk about this incursion and the strategic importance and really, the strategic necessity of it for ukraine. >> yeah, that's the right word. and let's kind of do it from the inside out. so what's the impact in russia and on the russian armed forces? it's a moral blow to the russian

people who have been fed endless propaganda and lies that this is going to be a cake walk, when the war started and suddenly, we're up to hundreds of thousands of dead russians and now, russia has invaded, for the first time, since the second world war, joe. i mean, this is 85 years ago. and this shatters all of that. that's a big deal. secondly, to the russian piece of this, as you correctly point out, now they're forced to swng forces away from their main battle effort down south of where this military salient has occurred. russia's got to deal with that. they've got to shift forces. it's extremely disconcerting militarily. that's kind of the russia people. over here in ukraine and kyiv, big shot in the arm. morale has been sort of fluttery for the last year, frankly. this is a good boost to that. and third, and finally, think

about how this lands internationally. people talking about it. european airwaves are flooded with this. this is a big boost to the efforts to continue military aid to the ukrainians. so those three audiences are all kind of two thumbs up, and we all should be this morning. >> admiral, good morning. ukraine's top military commander says they've taken 74 russian towns and villages, of varying sizes, but 74 is not an infant number. if we pull back a little bit, this is one moment in time in a long war. what is the larger significance and what does it say about where russia and ukraine is in the war? >> two things. what you're seeing is the use of combined arms. that's military speak for putting together air, artillery, armor, cyber, drones, putting it all together. this is exactly what the west has been training the ukrainians

to do for over two and a half years. and you're seeing a real proof of case in doing this. that is very disconcerting to the russians. and secondly, it's not just what's happeninged on battlefield here, because this is not going to turn into a march on moscow, napoleon in the 1800s, burning the city of moscow. that's not in the cards. but it's not just the battlefield. it's the negotiating table. if zelenskyy can hold on to a chunk of this, that becomes a pretty significant bargaining trip. final thought. several thousand russian soldiers will end up being captured result of this over time. now, those become bargaining chips to play back for ukrainians that are captured and also looking ahead to that negotiating table. coming up, we'll stay overseas for the latest in the cease-fire talks between israel and hamas. and new reporting that prime minister benjamin netanyahu is

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welcome back. as talks continue for a cease-fire deal between israel and hamas, there is new reporting that prime minister benjamin netanyahu introduced new conditions that complicated negotiations aimed at freeing hostages and suspending the fighting in the gaza strip. the question to admiral stavridis, could this one man lead this region into a wider war? >> unfortunately, you can lay that case out pretty coherently, that he is the roadblock here.

and i know well, for example, general benny ganz, who was the number two in the war cabinet, is in my view the probable next prime minister of israel. he finally walked out of the war cabinet. yoav gallant, another former defense minister, another former general i know well, who is the current defense minister, who is the one who is publicly throwing the red flag on benjamin netanyahu's unconditional surrender of hamas -- >> by the way, his own defense minister -- so before people start shouting, you're doing the bidding of hamas -- which, of course, nobody is here -- this is his own defense minister. the security establishment all saying, this is unrealistic, and we need to avoid a regional war. we need to make peace now. or at least a cease-fire, right?

>> 100% correct. picture a scenario where publicly, lloyd austin is breaking out and saying that joe biden's approach to china in our defenses in the south china sea are all wrong. it's impossible to imagine that, and yet it's unfolding in front of our eyes here. and by the way, yoav gallant is not on the left in israeli politics. so this is something that is finally starting to build around netanyahu. i am hopeful of that. and your point, joe, that all of this will put pressure, that hopefully can help us at the negotiating table is crucial. hey, final thought back to ukraine for one second. something you said. i just want to draw a line under it. yes, team biden has handled this well. you know who else has? the europeans, our allies.

they have put more money into than we have. they are more faithful to this. and they led the way on taking the shackles off the ukrainians, letting them use long-range uk missiles, french missiles. so above all, for me, as a former nato commander, i look at what's happening in ukraine through the prism of allied operations. pretty good. and frankly, that ought to worry us when we talk about team trump coming in here, who is so skeptical of our alliance systems. >> exactly. finally, i want to turn your attention to -- and i'm sure you saw this, a piece by ambassador rahm emanuel, and i'll quote the headline, the navy is breaking down. we need our allies to help fix our ships. i'm curious, do you agree that our navy is breaking down and we need help? >> yes and yes. and the things that his honor,

the former mayor, a good friend of mine, he so correctly underlies the channels in the defense industrial base, building the ships, the maintenance. what's not breaking down is the morale of our sailors who are under fire in the arabian gulf, under fire in the indian ocean from these houthi rebels, knocking down missiles, launching strikes. two aircraft carriers now in the region, a guided missile submarine. our navy forward is doing just fine, and i know the ambassador would agree with me on that. he is correct, it's the maintenance, the ship building, the ship numbers. those are things we've got to fix. and we've talked a lot about allies this morning. japan in this regard, doubling their defense budget, one of the great ship-building nations, ship repair -- i've had ships under my command repaired there. it's quite remarkable. i am two thumbs up for rahm emanuel. >> retired four-star navy

admiral, james stavridis. thank you, as always, for coming on this morning. and coming up on "morning joe," we're going to take a closer look at how some of donald trump's supporters now view the former president following last month's assassination attempt against him. nbc's morgan radford joins us with her new reporting. s morgan with her new reporting (♪♪) we need a miracle. miracle every thursday starting at 2:45. i know. i love you. find childcare that fits your schedule

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our secret service sniper, whatever you want to call him, what a shot. he used one bullet, from much further away. being president is a dangerous profession, you know? this is a very dangerous -- this is not -- this is not the safest profession out there. but that was an amazing event. and for those of you that don't

believe in god -- i believe there's only one reason that could have happened, because the chances were so -- so small. >> former president donald trump at a rally in montana on friday, talking about last month's assassination attempt against him. it's been just over a month since that shooting near butler, pennsylvania. for many of donald trump's supporters, that attack has changed the way they see his campaign and a potential second term in office for him. nbc news correspondent and co-anchor"nbc news daily," morgan radford has been talking to some of those supporters and joins us now. what did you learn? >> a few things. number one, the assassination team is still very much on top of people's minds. and you can also hear it in terms like "divine intervention" and you can see it in some of the t-shirts and outfits appearing at some of these rallies. but we also have learned it really reinforced a belief that existed well before the assassination attempt. that the former president has a role to play when it comes to

religious policy right here on earth. >> we will fight -- >> reporter: from the pulpit to the political stage -- >> give thanks and glory to god for sparing the life of president donald trump. >> reporter: there's a new type of language surrounding former president donald trump's campaign -- >> divine intervention. >> god has his hand on him. >> reporter: doubling down after the failed assassination attempt on july 13th at a rally in butler, pennsylvania, which trump survived with only a minor ear injury. >> trump is still alive, by god's grace. >> reporter: a sentiment echoed in everything from fan-made merchandise to music videos on social media. >>. >> reporter: before the assassination attempt, protesta supported trump at a rate of 80%. now, through what considered to be a miracle, strengthened his popularity among christians even more. to find out, we spoke to dozens

of trump supporters at religious events, churches, and campaign rallies across the country, who talked about everything from their goals for a second trump term to their fears if he doesn't win. >> we need to protect the babies. >> it's not logical for a man to pretend to be a woman and compete in any man's sport. >> to their political operation -- >> i'm ready for them to make the bible hate speech -- >> you think people on the left would make the bible hate speech? >> definitely. >> reporter: allison painter says she was on the capitol ground on january 6th. >> so you're talking to an insurrectionist. >> you were there? >> i was. >> reporter: her belief, divine intervention played a role in saving trump and it can do the same as a nation for a whole. >> we need to have christ back in our country. >> what does that look like, to have christ back in our country? what does that look like politically? >> just like louisiana. put the ten commandments back in our classrooms. that's -- we need that. >> reporter: shane winnings is a

pastor and a ceo of promise keepers, a men's ministry group. he says there's a bigger message. >> my message to christians, and it should be loud and clear now is if you don't want to be in politics, that's fine, but politics wants to be involved in you. >> reporter: do you think this particular, this second run of trump has re-energized the christian wright in a new or different way? >> 1,000%. >> reporter: all following a seismic shift among republican voters, happening before the assassination team. while more than 40% of republicans believe trump was anointed by god in a 2020 survey, that number dropped to just 18% three years later. >> one of the reasons why we see trump and many others in his orbit using religious language and specifically going to talk to christians and christian audiences is to try to reinforce those connections. >> connections that are now resonating with some trump supporters, like joseph patterson. >> it's america. >> if trump has been definely protected, does that mean that he has to listen to congress or

listen to man-made entities. >> yes. he can listen to himself, you know? >> even if it's against maybe the will of the american people or the supreme court? >> yes. >> or democrats. >> so whatever for president trump says, goes? is that kind of what i'm hearing? >> yeah. >> we reached out to the trump campaign for comment and have not gotten a response yet. to put all of this in context, 63% of americans consider themselves to be christian, according to the most recent polling from pew research, but it is really important to note that not all christians are evangelicals. in fact, evangelicals are around 24% of the population, a number that's declined by 6% since 2007. but this is a group that has gotten much more reliably republican in the last 40 years, which means that their turnout is going to be incredibly key for the trump campaign this fall. coming up, we'll be joined by the governor of the great state of new jersey, phil murphy. he'll be, of course, at next week's democratic national convention in chicago. a preview of that event and the

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i want to close the department of education, move education back to the states, where states like iowa, states like idaho -- you know, not every state will do great. >> what is happening in his mouth? i know the guy's big on slurs, but this is next level. it's weird he's even talking about sending teachers to the gulag, because trump has more popular policies, like his proposal to end taxes on tips, which is so popular that kamala harris now says that she supports it, and trump is not happy about that. >> no tax on tips, and all of a sudden she's making a speech and saying, there will be no tax on

tips, that i said months ago. and all of a sudden, for politics, she says, you know, she comes out with what i said. >> look, look, to be fair, kamala did copy trump's no tax on tips idea, which would make it the first time in history that a woman got credit for repeating a man's idea. >> oh, i like it! good point. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. jonathan lemire is back with us. joining us now, nbc news national affairs analyst and partner and chief political columnist at puck, john heilemann. >> let's go to breaking economic news. labor department just released their numbers for july, the consumer price index rose 0.2% last month, in line with expectations. actually a little better than expectations. that pushed the inflation rate down to 2.9%. and willie, that's the fist time the inflation rate has been

below 3% since 2021. and "the wall street journal" reporting breaking news that it pretty much seals the deal when it comes to a rate cut, an interest rate cut, when the fed meets september 17th and 18th. >> yeah, we're going to have andrew ross sorkin join us in just a moment to walk through some of these numbers, but this is really good news. this july inflation report. 2.9% inflation, year over year. as you said, that's the lowest since march of 2021. prices are down, importantly, for food. those have been nagging people at grocery stores for years now, and energy, still higher than anyone would like them to be. but they're headed in the right direction. this is great news, takes politics out of it. this is great news for the country. this is great news for people who need to go out and buy things for their families. a great report here. obviously, there's some politics at play here, john. this has been the issue. the one issue in the economy, despite so much good news about our economy, as we make our way

out of this covid era, that has been nagging, and it looks like from this july report anyway, we are definitely headed in the right direction. >> taking politics out of it, good for america. putting politics in it, good for vice president harris and the biden white house. they believed this was coming. they're showing the fundamentals of the economy has been strong. a lot of americans still feeling it, paying too much, and register their unhappiness in the polls. and we've heard donald trump tie, again and again and again, to try to suggest that the biden/harris policies are what's behind this. and he revelled in that stock market slump of a week or so ago, one that has now easily -- that has completely dissipated. and joe, this is going to be a good news story for the white house, it's good for vice president harris. it all but ensures that rate cut, and it will be guaranteed that donald trump can complain about that. suggesting that it will be the fed playing politics. that they shouldn't be doing so so close to an election.

you can hear the truth social tweets post being typed out as we speak. >> well, let's bring in right now, the co-anchor of cnbc's squawkbox, "the new york times" columnist, andrew ross sorkin. andrew, just a week ago, we were telling people not to jump out of windows, that things would likely turn around. and it does seem we have -- we do, we get these conflicting, these conflicting story lines about -- how well is the economy doing? it does seem, though, to be slowing down and moving in that glide path we've talked about for quite some time to lower inflation with no recession. >> this is what you call or at least appears to be the soft landing we've all been talking about. just to put some meat on the bones here, food prices, you were talking about, just what this means sort of politically. food prices only up 0.2%, month over month, that's actually

quite good. looking at grocery prices up 0.1%. apparel prices up 0.4%. then on the other side, you actually saw a decline in both new and used vehicles. and then there's the issue of rent, which is also always sort of a persistent question, but you look at the whole picture and it does feel and i think it's not just a feel, it's the numbers demonstrating that inflation is coming down. the other thing to look at is a measure in the bond market of how people are betting, what the federal reserve does as a result of all of this. we've talked about what jay powell might do in september. is he going to lower interest rates and by how much? so going into this number, the expectation was that he was going to lower interest rates by 50 basis points. and that was more than 25 basis points that people had been talking about, even months before this.

well, now it's reversed to just 25 basis points. that's now the -- more people are betting on 25 basis points as opposed to 50. you might say, what does that even mean? well, 50 basis points would suggest that he is worried about growth. that he's worried the economy is going to be challenged, and even struggle more. today, as i just said, that reversed to only 25 basis points, which gives you a better sense that at least the view inside the fed or at least the view of the markets, about what the fed is going to do, suggesting things are better, and as you mentioned, the white house and the administration and vice president harris probably cheering these numbers on this morning. >> yeah, you know, there's certainly a lot of warnings out there that we've heard, willie. you know, home depot suggested that the economy was slowing down and issued a warning, based on what they were seeing. and of course, there always seems to be a story every two or three days that the dude that predicted the sinking of the "titanic," the downing of the hindenburg, and every crash in the middle ages says, the stock market is going to crash, and the economy is going to go

under. so, again, nobody knows for sure what's going to happen, but at least right now, these numbers suggest that things are slowing down the way policy makers have wanted them to slow down. >> and a couple of the numbers that stand out as we look through this report, which, as we say, is very impressive in terms of bringing prices down, hopefully for families, rent is beginning to cool a little bit. obviously, home prices and rent have been a big concern for a lot of people. it's a really hard time to pie or sell a house and rent is much too expensive. also interesting to note, andrew, as i look through this, that wage growth has now beat inflation for more than a year. so for the last 15 months, wages have been growing faster than inflation. that's also good news for workers, of course. >> and by the way, that's significant. because one of the things that you heard over the last several years, especially from the trump campaign and others was that, you know, given the growth inflation and where wages were,

that people were behind. and on a cumulative basis. and as you get closer to now, this goes back to sort of how people feel about inflation versus their own wage. as wages are now outpacing inflation, it is, i think, making people feel better. this is something you heard the biden administration say was going to happen. that people were going to feel it, but that they couldn't feel it before. and i think it's starting to sort of -- the numbers, at least, are starting to be now where some of that feeling may be coming this fall. and we'll see how it plays out in the election. >> yeah, "the wall street journal" this morning, editorial, talking about donald trump wanting to take more control of the fed. they certainly note that the fed has seemed to be a bit slow, maybe a step behind at times. they also noted that donald trump, his idea for a weak dollar, his idea of flooding the zone would just be a disaster

for america. would lead to america's economic decline, certainly in the short-term. what's the thought on wall street about donald trump and what he said about wanting to take independence away from the fed? >> well, look, i don't think anybody wants to take independence away from the fed. and i think that people on wall street think that that unto itself is dangerous. donald trump, obviously, comes from the world of real estate, where you want to have as low as interest rates as humanly possible, so you can lever up your properties. that can be both a blessing and a horrible curse. a number of his properties have gone bankrupt as a result of leveraging them up with debt. he, of course, likes to have relatively cheap debt. having said that, he has not wanted the federal reserve to lower interest rates this fall, because he thinks it gives vice president harris an advantage over him. you know, he wants, when it quorks for him and doesn't want it when he doesn't. look, the big issue on the

federal reserve and is independence is that you want to at least have the idea of an independent federal reserve. the truth is that presidents have, for many, many years, privately and some publicly, tried to put pressure on the federal reserve. nobody has put pressure so publicly, the way president trump did, even when he was in office. and so the question is sort of how you believe that those pressures should be brought to bear. but there have been presidents even historically who have done it privately. i think we should readily at least admit that. but the idea that he should have an even bigger say i think presents problems for folks on wall street and the investors around the world. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you, as always. so, governor tim walz headlined his first campaign event yesterday since being named kamala harris' running mate. and addressed the recent attacks on his military service record. meanwhile, the united auto workers union has filed federal labor charges against donald

trump. nbc news senior whiteout correspondent gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> reporter: this morning, minnesota governor tim walz back on a cross-country fund-raising blitz after his first solo appearance as kamala harris' running mate. gooinlg to say it again as clearly as i can. i'm damned proud about my country. >> walz defending how he described his time in the army national guard. in this 2018 clip, then congressman walz said he carried weapons in war. >> we can make sure that those weapons of war that i carried in war are the only place where those weapons are. >> those walz served in the army national guard for 24 years, he was never in combat. the harris campaign says walz misspoke, but trump running mate and marine veteran j.d. vance calls it scandalous behavior. >> i'm not criticizing tim walz's service, i'm criticizing the fact that he lied about his service for political gain. >> anyone brave enough to put on

that uniform for our great country, including my opponent, i just have a few simple words -- thank you for your service and sacrifice. >> the harris campaign, meanwhile, slamming former president trump's comments to billionaire elon musk about firing workers. >> you're the greatest cutter -- i mean, i look at what you do. they go on strike, and you say, that's okay, you're all gone. >> the united auto workers filing federal labor charges against trump for attempting to intimidate employees. the trump campaign calls it a shameless political stunt. >> the only thing those two know about working people is how to work to take advantage of them. >> reporter: overnight, in a new interview, trump says he plans to offer local law enforcement for mass deportation, even offering immunity. >> we'll work with the local police, and we have to get them out. >> meanwhile, some republicans are increasingly urging the former president to focus his campaign messaging, as enthusiasm surges for harris. >> the campaign is not going to

win talking about crowd sizes. it's not going to win talking about what race kamala harris is. it's not going to win talking about whether she's dumb. >> and that comes from somebody that said they're not going to win if they nominate donald trump, which she's running against. >> and warned republicans time and again. which the wall street street editorial teenage. he was gloating about elon musk firing people for going out on strike. and you know, michigan, such a critical state. i guarantee you we'll hear that time and time again. >> it's just strange that it seems whenever he goes out there, it's something that's negative or works against the campaign. >> works against his best interests. >> the group evangelicals for harris just released a new add

in an effort to win over any conservative evangelicals in key swing states who might still be lukewarm on donald trump. take a look. >> have you been to the cross? and said, lord, i have sinned, i'm sorry for my sin. >> have you ever asked god for forgiveness? >> that's a tough question. i'm not sure i have. i just -- i don't bring god into that picture. i don't. >> so, you know, people that haven't -- >> that's pretty powerful. >> -- been raised in the church, especially the evangelical church, could be forgiven for not understanding that that is the center of the faith. evangelicals always and the bible says, we're all sinners, we have all sinned and fallen

short of the glory of god, but what separates christians from those who are not christians is they ask for forgiveness. and that is the first thing you have to do. and so, it's interesting, whoever put this clip together actually understands that's at the heart of the message. it's not the sins or perceived sins of donald trump. that actually does go to the heart of what evangelicals have been taught their entire life. and so it's fascinating. and you know, john heilemann, people may be asking why, why the harris campaign is focusing on evangelicals. dave brody, who shared that clip with me earlier helpfully brought up the fact that barack obama got 26% of the white evangelical vote and won. hillary clinton in 2016 only got 16% of the white evangelical vote and lost. joe biden got 24% of the white evangelical vote and won.

as david brody at cbn says, if kamala harris can get 20% plus of the white evangelical vote, her chances of winning go up substantially in this election that's going to be determined on the margins. >> well, right, joe, it's -- i think that just to be helpful to a lot of viewers who fall into the camp of godless secularists, like me, they -- we should note that like, i think people don't appreciate the breadth of the evangelical church and the evangelical self-identification. people hear evangelical and hear "christian right." and the reality is that both -- it is almost entirely white, but a lot of suburban areas in battleground states and certainly in a lot of places in rural america, there is -- and in the white working class, non-college whites is another demographic group, across the

battleground states, there is a relatively high identification with evangelical faith, even if you're not remotely in anything that would ever be considered the christian right. so, if you think about those statistics you just laid out, obama's performance with evangelicals, biden's performance with evangelicals. those -- their strength with that group overlaps with other groups that we think about those guys having done well with and helped them to win. so with white suburbanites in the battleground states, and with a lot of white non-college working class voters in those states, there's a big chunks of evangelical votes in those places. i think the harris campaign understands that it needs to perform at a certain level with white voter in general, and then with other -- and with subsets of white voters, particularly across those blue wall states, but really in all of the battleground state. and they're right to find various ways to go at them. one of the ways to go at them is through tim walz. another way -- and the kind of

rural populism that he speaks to. but another way is to go right through the front door here and target and try to chip away some of that evangelical support. they just understand how close this election is going to be and moving these sub-groups just a tiny little bit, a few points in either direction could be the difference between winning and losing any given state and the entire election for kamala harris. >> and john heilemann, we examined the cook political reporter earlier, and the trends are such that harris clearly -- recollating some democratic vote that she had lost. you can see her, every state now within the margin of error, harris has slight leads in most. trump's numbers haven't really changed, but harris' have grown. weigh in on that if you would like, but i'm also just curious, the package we just played has what at the moment is the republicans' most coherent attack on the harris/walz ticket, and that's trying to go after walz' service record. to be clear, a lot of their arguments are in bad faith, but he has had to respond a number

of times now. do you think there's -- that there's a there there? is this going to be something that moves voters at all? >> i don't think there's there there, and if that's their most sustained attack, taking on the running mate on the democratic side, that is going to be a real problem for them going forward. tim walz is a classic vice presidential pick in this sense, and this is not a comment about his skills, his abilities, his -- his political performance -- his standing as a political athlete or anything else. people in american presidential elections do not vote for the bottom of the ticket. they vote for the top of the ticket. so what you're doing by picking a running mate is projecting something prosecute top of the ticket about your values. are you picking someone who's ready to be president from day one? are you picking someone that's therefore qualified to take the top job if necessary? what does it say about you, about what you care about, what you might think your strengths or weaknesses are? all of those things reflect back on the nominee. but in the end, a terrible vice

presidential pick can weigh down a ticket a little bit. but a great one is really a matter of ticking the box and saying, okay, we made a solid pick. now voters are going to focus on kamala harris. so i don't -- i think that the arguments about what we've heard so far, i think "the wall street journal" editorial board and others have said that the charges, the stolen valor charges against walz are very thin in terms of the facts of the matter. but in the end, it is pretty irrelevant. unless it was a catastrophic problem on walz' side, it's not going to matter at all in the end to whether -- to who wins these battleground states in november. >> all right. still ahead this morning on "morning joe," she plays tina on the hit ftx show "the bear," leeza colon-zayas will be our guest fresh off her emmy nomination. we're back in a moment. nomination we're back in a moment (inaudible sounds)

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today we're expanding the electoral map, because we are going to officially play in the state of new jersey. we're going to win the state of new jersey. >> that was donald trump just three months ago, boasting how he would expand the electoral map this november. fast forward to today, when the former president heads to north carolina for a rally in an effort to blunt the momentum of vice president kamala harris. it's been 16 years since a democrat won north carolina's 16 electoral votes. joining us now, democratic governor, phil murphy of new jersey. i know you were a surrogate for the campaign and a big supporter. how possible is it that the harris/walz campaign flips a state like north carolina? >> you think it's quite possible, quite possible. the polling you just showed a

few minutes ago shows that she's neck and neck. off great gubernatorial candidate on our side. a guy who's completely unhinged running for governor on their side. and by the way, those statements apply to many points on the ballot in north carolina. the state's been taken seriously from day one by the biden/harris team and now by the harris/walz team. i think that state is without question -- unlike new jersey, north carolina is absolutely in play for the harris/walz team. >> governor, good morning. it's willie geist, good to see you, as always. i'm curious about your thoughts on the choice of governor walz, a guy you know pretty well from the governors' association, as the running mate. there had been some consternation in the early hours and days after that maybe it should have been josh shapiro or gretchen whitmer, but what do you think of the choice and what do you think he brings to the ticket? >> good to see you, willie.

good to be back. i love the guy. you start with the fact that the vice president had almost an embarrassment of riches among the choices that she could have made. i've been saying this for several years in my role as the chair of the democratic governor's association. by the way, tim succeeded me in that position. as a governor, as a democrat, our bench is deep, thick, overwhelming with talent. she could not have made a bad choice. but i love tim walz. i love this guy. he's done an extraordinary job in minnesota. he -- progressives love him. the business community loves him. he leads the nation in the lowest unemployment rate. he's an incredibly genuine, loyal, smart guys. he lights the room up. i think it was a brilliant choice and i think you've seen that in the fist number of days since they've been out on the

trail together. >> certainly there was some good economic news that crossed a little while ago, inflation cooling. certainly a win for the biden/harris white house. as you well know, your constituents, you have been on this show talking about it before, have been dogged by inflation. have not felt good about this economy. what can be the message for this democratic ticket to turn that sentiment around? >> it has to be "we've got your back." we understand your pain. it's real. let's forget for a minute talking about abstract macro numbers. let's talk about what it costs to buy eggs, milk, gas, the rent on your apartment, whatever it might be. and i think that's exactly what they're doing. this ticket has been talking about, we're on your side. we're committed to cost of living, getting it back in line. it's an incredibly stark contrast, across the entire spectrum of policy, but especially in the economy. the harris/walz team is a

middle-out, bottom-up, and you've got the classic top-down, which we know has never worked on the other side. so i think they will be committed to making sure that middle america knows that they're on their side. the numbers today are the best of all worlds. the so-called goldilocks result, meaning inflation is about what fols guessed it would be. had it been lower, there would be increased fears of recession. had it been higher, there would have been decreased likelihood that the fed would cut next month. i think given where it came out, the fed will cut. the only question is how much. that will be a very good step, not just in the macro reality, but that ultimately will impact the kitchen table. >> democratic governor phil murphy of new jersey, thank you very much for coming on this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> we appreciate it. >> all right. take care.

up next, we'll get expert legal analysis on the ruling that just came down in donald trump's criminal hush money case. "morning joe" is coming right back with that breaking news. "m back with that breaking news [coughing] copd isn't pretty. i'm out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ♪♪ ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours

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this just in. former president donald trump has lost his latest bid for a new judge in his hush money trial. this morning, judge juan marchon refused to step aside, rejecting the third such request from trump's lawyers. once again, they argued that marchon has a conflict of interest because of his daughter's work as a political consultant for prominent democrats. the case heads toward a key ruling and potential sentencing next month. marchon has repeatedly said he is certain he can handle the case fairly and impartially. joining us now, nbc news legal analyst katherine christian, she's a former assistant district attorney in the manhattan d.a.'s office. so, a couple of questions.

first of all, how many times can he make this request? i know perhaps they thought it was different this time, because kamala harris is now the democratic nominee, ostensibly, but can they keep making this request and going back to the court and going through the motions with this? >> well, what happens when attorneys, not very good attorneys, do that, it is considered frivolous conduct and they could be sanctioned. in this case, they could argue that it wasn't frivolous because there was new information, but the judge said there was nothing new. the only thing new is that vice president harris is now the nominee. nothing has changed, none of the facts have changed. judge marchon has an adult daughter that doesn't even live in his household and what she does in her life has nothing to do with judge marchon. shea provided no information other than that vice president harris is now running as the

nominee for the democratic party. so judge marchon was right to once again, as he said for the third time, deny their motion to recuse him. and as he said, on innuendo and mischaracterizations of the facts. so inevitably, trump's attorneys will try it again, probably to a higher court. the first department who's the appellate court in manhattan already denied it. they'll deny it again, but this is just what trump and his attorneys have been doing on this and other cases, quite frankly. >> so if you couldn't remind our viewers, because this has all been going on in the background of this completely renewed presidential campaign with joe biden stepping down, kamala harris stepping in. can you remind people what exactly he was convicted for,

what is the nnsing, and what is the potential consequence he could receive that day? >> donald trump was convicted by a jury of 34 counts of falsifying business records. the records of his company that were falsified to cover up the fact that he paid stormy daniels to not let the world know that they had an affair. and that would come out before his campaign. and he did that as d.a. bragg said, to interfere with the election. his sentencing date is september 18th. so judge marchon, in the meantime, is deciding whether or not to set aside the verdict, bade on the supreme court's decision. if he doesn't decide to set aside the verdict as judge marchon, donald trump will have his sentencing on september 18th. the maximum under new york law that donald trump could face is four years. i personally do not think that judge marchon will give a term of incarceration, but donald trump is facing that. and these are all felonies.

so once he is sentenced, the judgment and conviction will be final. he will be a sentenced, convicted felon. >> so are these machinations by trump's lawyers to try to put off that sentencing date, to just move it down? >> oh, yes, anything they can do to make sure that september 18th won't happen, i'm sure they'll continue to try to do. >> okay. msnbc legal analyst, catherine christian, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we'll be following this. and coming up on "morning joe" -- >> it's comedic how hard it's been for me to find anything, man. i'll clean a dish, i'll wash a floor. i'll sell some [ bleep ]. i've got to cover the [ bleep ], right? i don't need to be inspired, i don't need to be impassioned, i don't need to make magic. i don't need to save the world, you know?

just -- i just want to feed my kids. >> sure. man, just give me a routine. i'm in. >> that was a clip from "the bear," the hit series that has a lot of people talking, and we get to speak to emmy nominated actress liza colon-zayas live in studio about season three next on "morning joe." studio about season three next on "morning joe. hi, my name is damian clark. and if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana

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one, my landlord raised our rent by like a lot, which is problematic. two, my husband what about itting waiting for a promotion for years that's probably not coming. three, i lost my job. four, i've been applying for every job in this city and i can't get it.

five, i'm 46 years old. >> oh, boy. >> yeah. >> is there a number six? >> i also can't remember the last time i went to bed. >> all right. well, you feel better? >> not really! >> she is so good. flashback scene from season three of fx's "the bear" released to rave reviews next month. critical acclaim nothing new for this show. it second season recently earned 23 emmy nominations, breaking the all-time record for most nominations for a comedy series. joining us now, one of the co-stars of "the bear," who you just saw there, liza colon-zayas. she's been nominated for an emmy for her role as tina on the show. liza, we are so excited to have you here. such fans around this table of "the bear," and of you

particularly. i'm just curious what it's like to have been a part of something. you have been at this, like tina, for some time, off broadway, broadway, grinding, grinding, making your name, earning a living, and now you're on the show of the moment. what is it like to be standing in it? >> it's surreal. i never imagined that this would take off like wildfire, globally. i feel so blessed. i love my cast, i love my job. >> for people who haven't seen the show, and i'm told there are some. i guess. tell us a little bit about tina, who she is, and where she fits in the story and what you loved about her on the page when you auditioned for her? >> i didn't have a lot of information. i only had one scene, it was in the middle of the pandemic and so i just went with my natural riffraff impulses. and then we shot the pilot,

months went by, and we had so much fun. we had so much fun, to watch it and to see my stress level went so high, i did not expect it. but i am so proud that so many people from different walks of life share and empathize with tina's struggle. >> one of the beautiful things to watch within the context of the show. we meet tina early on and you say, i like her, i'm rooting for her, she's complicated, she has a lot going on in her life, she's just trying to get by. and to see the role grow over the three seasons, to the point where you have your own episode and we're learning everything about your story. as an actor, that's got to be incredible to know that the audience, the writers, everybody saw enough in you and that character to grow the role the way it has. >> absolutely. i feel like i really earned it. i'm from theater, so i always feel like every night the pressure is on.

this is a new performance. you have to earn it. and i feel like they saw the skills, even deeper, and got inspired to write this beautiful episode. so i'm just so happy. >> so let's talk about that scene that we just played a little bit coming in. which for so many viewers is sort of the signature moment of the season. what was that like? >> when i got this script, i started crying. then i saw that i was going to direct, and i started crying some more. and my husband, playing my real husband, who isn't, you know, bad news. he's a stable, good, sweetheart. that's my baby. it almost feels like an embarrassment of riches. i feel so lucky. it's not that i i haven't earned it, i know i've earned it, but to have this caliber of writing. >> let's watch, actually, the scene where, as she said, liza acts across from her real-life husband, playing the husband of her character, tina.

>> i got a really good feeling about this interview. i know this is going to be the one. >> breathe, mama. >> i know you're being sweet, but i know we're in trouble and i really need this, you know? >> did i fail you? >> no! baby, no. remember when we were 20? >> yeah. was it scary like this? >> yeah. different scary, but, yeah. >> yeah. >> mm-hmm. >> i never want you to worry, baby. >> i know. i know, baby.

>> good luck. >> i love it! so, liza, i've got so many -- i'm such a fan. i love this show so much and that was beautiful. i just want to tell you, i don't really watch shows and joe has to drag me to watch a show and he was like, this is amazing, you've got to watch "the bear." it's about a restaurant and cooking. and i was like, oh, my god, cooking, okay? all right. i watched the first episode and i was like, oh, my god, this is about so much more, and in so many ways, it is just such a surprise. so i'm curious, when you first heard what the "the bear" was about, what did they tell you? what did you think? and, how has it now transformed into this massive success. did you expect that when you

first heard what it was about? never in my wildest dreams did i expect it. it was just such a joy to shoot. we were locked on in the pandemic. but then, i guess, it speaks to how smart and incredible and authentic and truthful the writing is. and we got blessed with this phenomenal -- we just got the best cast, the best crew, so it tells me that, you know, people, whether it's stressful or whatever, they appreciate truth and authenticity. and where it's been now, i love that i have been blessed to represent people who i consider the backbone of this country. and people from all walks of life, really, and are cheering her on. >> we have another super fan on

with us, john heilemann, we were talking to liza in the commercial break, just how there is no weak link on this show. you're always happy to see whoever is on the screen in that moment. it's in my mind, one of the best active shows that has been on television, and liza is right at the center of it. >> i can make a joke that how the only weak link is my friend chris storr, who writes these scripts, i'm sure they're mediocre when you get them, and the performance is what raises the game. i'm joking. i'm joking. i'm curious about this, you know, you guys were talking about napkins, the solo episode, the back story episode for tina, and you're in that scene at the end there. we see the big set. i mean, look, getting berenthal was a huge get, he was in for a

tiny part of season one, a bigger part in season two and season three, the chemistry, the authenticity, the whole scene is off the charts. i would love for you to talk about what it's like to play opposite an actor of that caliber, not that the other actors are not of similar caliber. how much ad-libbing did you do or did you stick straight to the script? >> stuck straight to the script. he's, you know, phenomenal, but he's also so kind. he's so generous. he's a sweetheart. so i never really worked with him. but on the day, i was like, do you mind if we run the lines, and he was right there and so open. and so i credit him equally, of course. but, no, there was no ad-libbing. >> you are so great on the show. you have a lot of people rooting for you at these emmy awards. f x's the bear are streaming now

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it's time now for a look at some of the morning papers. in california, the sacramento bee is highlighting a collection of bills that lawmakers are hoping will curb retail crime. the ten bills include tougher penalties on crimes, such as shoplifting and reselling goods that are known to be stolen. the legislative package passed with mostly bipartisan support with some progressive lawmakers expressing concern about marginalized communities being disproportionately affected. governor gavin newsom is expected to sign the legislation. the dallas morning news reports that dozens of texas lawmakers

are urging the state fair of texas to rescind its ban on firearms. the fair's board of directors introduced the ban this year after three people were injured in a shooting during last year's fair. the lawmakers argue the ban makes fair goers less safe and violates their second amendment rights. the board announced last week that there will be enhanced security measures in place including 200 officers patrolling the fairgrounds. the "atlanta journal-constitution," with georgia lawmakers, on the u.s. postal service due to significant mail delays in the state. senator jon ossoff blames the policies of the postmaster general for delays, and told attendees he has put the postmaster under civil pressure

to do his job. the postmaster says the delays are due to issues with a new processing facility opening near atlanta. and in michigan, the "grand rapids press" leads with a new poll on how the extreme heat is impacting americans. according to a survey from the associated press, seven out of ten people say they are paying more for electricity this year compared to last year. four in ten reported the high temperatures have had at least a minor impact on their sleep, their pets, and their outdoor activities. time now for final thoughts. willie, lead the way. i think the inflation report is our headline this morning. again, not just for politics, but because of what it means for the economy, what it means for people's ability to go buy things and have to pay out the nose for them. a good report, objectively, jonathan lemire, inflation down 4% year over year, and food prices and fuel prices down as well. >> important for all americans who can breathe a little easier, and political armor from vice

president harris in this campaign, and very well timed as this report comes, further evidence that the economy is recovering. just hours before, donald trump delivers a speech on that very topic. we know he'll try to attack her on it. this gives democrats a way to rebut. >> yeah, and we're reminded that donald trump has been convicted of felony counts with the judge deciding today that of course this judge will stay in place for this case, and this case involves a sentencing on september 18th. so that's all in the background, not to be forgotten. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. the race for the white house, donald trump returning to the trail as he faces growing pressure from top allies. this as the number two on the democratic ticket sharpens his attacks on the gop nominee. also ahead, new developments in ukraine, surprise assault

into russianer