happy friday. it's 4:00 in the east as we come on the air. vice president kamala harris is in roggy, north carolina. a short time ago she took the fight straight to the voters

over the kinds of kitchen table issues that could very well decide this race in november. things like cost of living, cost of child care and the cost of buying groceries, yes. >> still, we know that many americans don't yet feel that progress in their daily lives. costs are still too high, and on a deeper level, for too many people, no matter how much they work, it feels so hard to just be able to get ahead. as president i will be laser focused and creating opportunities for the middle class that advance their economic security, stability and dignity. together we will build what i call an opportunity economy. and key -- key -- to creating this opportunity economy is building up our middle class. [ applause ]

it is essential. the middle class is one of america's greatest strengths, and to protect it, then, we must defend basic principles. such as, your salary should be enough to provide you and your family with a good quality of life. [ applause ] such as, no child should have to grow up in poverty. [ applause ] such as, after years of hard work, you should be able to retire with dignity. [ applause ] and you should be able to join a union, if you choose. building up the middle class will be a defining goal of my presidency, because i strongly

believe when the middle class is strong, america is strong. [ applause ] >> now, make no mistake, this is vice president kamala harris rebooting and reclaiming the entire conversation around some of donald trump's favorite political talking points. a conversation about the economy that trump seeks to own and dominate and work and fearmonger about. comes end of a week with each passing day, each passing news cycle we've watched another pillar of trump's political playbook come crack crashing down. inflation. this week dipped below 3% first time since 2021. or drug prices where yesterday president joe biden and vice president kamala harris delivered that landmark victory on prescription drug pricing. or immigration. the last few hours we learned that border crossings, well, they dipped to their lowest rate in nearly four years.

with trump's playbook crumbling, consider this -- kamala harris is on the ground in north carolina today as some polls suggest that state is in play for the democrats for the first time in 16 years. meanwhile, donald trump is off the campaign trail today -- again. where we start today with some of our favorite experts and friends. reverend al sharpton is here and president of the national action network. joining us, democratic strategist aishya mills is here and bloomberg opinion msnbc political analyst tim o'brien is here. grab my glasses, tim, and play you more of this economic speech that she delivered today. she's sort of speaking, you know, sort of standing with this probably greatest american anxiety when it comes to the economy and that's accumulation of bills. listen to this. >> today i will focus on one

element that's on the minds of many americans as they pay their bills at the kitchen table or walk the aisles of a grocery store. and that is lowering the cost of living. [ applause ] so every day across our nation, families talk about their plans for the future. their ambitions. their aspirations for themselves, for their children, and they talk about how they're going to be able to actually achieve them financially, because, look, the bills add up. food, rent, gas, back-to-school clothes. prescription medication. after all that, for many families, there's not much left at the end of the month. >> she has an ability to speak

substantively to the anxieties that donald trump exploits with grievens and with anger and with rage, and she's also in the position as incumbent vice president to be solving them at the same time she's running on this message. what do you make of sort of the collective headlines about inflation and immigration, as well as the sort of coordination of policy news coming from this white house? prescription drugs yesterday and this economic address today? >> well, you know, i think it's worth putting this in the, first in the broader context where we've been since 2008. and the great financial crisis. that really upended opportunity and economic equity for tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of americans, and it was, i think, the seismic impact of that event that destroyed people's equity stakes in their homes. got rid of their ability to save

money for their children's education. undermined their own retirement. and i think both parties did not do a good job coming to the rescue of average working-class americans who were deeply anguished by that event, and donald trump stepped into that vacuum. donald trump actually said you have been exploited economically and so many other ways and i'm here to rescue you. then in the wake of covid you had this massive spike in inflation, and it affected every area. grocery, gasoline prices and people felt that in their living rooms, dining rooms, in their wallets and the pocketbooks, and some of this runs against the exemplary records the biden administration produced or the economy. we have had gdp growth, job growth and wage growth that is the envy of the developed world, but what we have not done completely yet, and have not brought across the finish line as an economy, is affordable

broadly defined. it's the same set of thing thrown into play in 2008. housing, education, health care, retirement. everyone's part of the american dream. and for a number of reasons i think joe biden was not able to connect to voters on that issue, and we now have a latest chapter in the kamala harris phenomenon where she is grounding these messages in front of voters and in front of audiences and it's resonating, and i think she has to put clothing on some of this. that's what she did today. remember, this is a week donald trump twice tried to talk about the economy and in one of those conversations ended up talking about rape and rapists and yesterday talking about affordability, doing it from a golf course he owns in new jersey. kamala harris is a good messenger for this right now. she's delivering it in a way i think biden wasn't able to, but certainly building on the

successes of his administration and what she put out today hit on real bread and butter issues. earned income tax cuts for working americans. and for families with children. subsidies for families with children. subsidies for families who want to buy homes. cleaning up the building process and regulations so home builders themselves can put more homes on the market. and i think she's trying to pick out some of those things in a very achievable and commonsensical way that is part of bringing more americans into the economy. i think some of the stuff around price gouging misidentifies what caused inflation. inflation caused by supply chain disruptions, the big government spend and the company to covid crisis, and it doesn't feel to people who are i think struggling, and that's a political message, in my mind, more than a completely economic one. but she's hitting the right note.

>> aishya let me show you to build on tim's points what she had to say about housing. >> there's a serious housing shortage in many places its too difficult to build, and it's driving prices up. as president, i will work in partnership with industry to build the housing we need, both to rent and to buy. we will take down barriers and cut red tape, including at the state and local levels. and by the end of my first term, we will end america's housing shortage by building 3 million new homes and rentals that are affordable for the middle class. [ cheers and applause ] >> even if aspiring homeowners

save for years, it often still is not enough. so in addition while we work on the housing shortage, my administration will provide first-time home buyers with $25,000 -- to help with the down payment on an new home. [ applause ] we can do this. we can do this. >> i mean, aishya, her candidacy, and it han been around that long, as we've always discussed, you and i on the program, her candidacy is about the future and she now has a pretty well-formed policy agenda that is also. there is nothing that a couple or a family sort of places the vision of their future as a couple or a family or a hopeowner, single homeowner, or

mon than if it is their dream, this dream of buying their first home. so to put the policies and the substance and the focus of her presidency behind the message, which is about the future and an optimistic one is political good political strategy. >> it's absolutely -- as she was talking today i felt so many of the things that she was talking about. feeding my household literally right now. back-to-school is coming. we have three kids that need to be shopped for. right? and they've got to get all the things they need for just going back to school and also for extra curricular activivities. you mentioned yet, nicolle, health care cost ares. she said in her speech having medical debt didn't count against your credit score. i'm someone who has had medical debt before.

all of this resonated with me. the piece about the housing and dealing with the inventory is so critical, because unof the things i think that hud has done well over the years is provide many incentives. one for first-time home buyers to be able to get in with a low down payment, as low as 3% in some instances, and then also there are many affordable tax credits at the federal level that trickle down through the state level e level as well to help developers be able to get those tax credits to build. the challenge is that gap she talked about. still for families, working-class and middle-class families coming up with $25,000 it, $50,000ing in cash that you still need to put down in order to access buying a home. and thats $25,000 number, you know, probably isn't even enough, but it is -- it goes a long way towards helping to bridge that gap. because the fact that, you know, there are so many programs that will lend to people, but then

there aren't enough houses for folks to buy at the rate that though programs will provide financing for, has always been a real challenge and a real disparity in communities, especially communities of color, urban communities. so i think that today all around was powerful, because she was speaking directly to pocketbook issues that voters face, that literally, myself, my community, my family, we sit around talking about these issues, and she just tapped into that in a way that politicians often don't, and contrast that with a guy at the golf course talking about economic policies. i do believe this is going to resonate. devil is always in the details, but just taking the step to politically say i am here for you and i'm working on it is all that she needed to do, i think to knock it out of the park. >> yeah. i mean, rev, there is a distinction and advantage when you're running as the vice president. i think the president rightfully

and justifiably had both his record to sell and plans for the future. she has, you know, really kind of took a scalpel and just put what aishya a talking about. kitchen table issues and also a contrast to trump. let me show you what she had to say about the trump tax. >> now, compare what donald trump plans to do. he wants to impose what is in effect a national sales tax on everyday products and basic necessities that we import from other countries. that will devastate americans and it will mean higher prices on just about every one of nor daily needs. a trump tax on gas. a trump tax on food. a trump tax on clothing. a trump tax on over-the-counter medication.

and you know, economists have done the math. donald trump's plan would cost a typical family $3,900 a year. at this moment when everyday prices are too high, he will make them even higher. >> whether or not she does more than the debate she's already agreed to is entirely up to the vice president. but this is incredible stuff to sort of take straight to the horse's mouth when she shows up at the big stage with him at least one time in the fall, rev. >> i think it is incredible, because she's taking his own proposals and show what it means to the average american, that he's trying to seduce that this is some advancement. the other thing we must keep in mind is that donald trump has a

record as well as the biden-harris team have a record. so you're not a guy out there just throwing something against an incumbent vice president. you're a guy the four years preceding what did you do? gave tax cuts to billionaires. you hung out with them and you increased the national debt by trillions of dollars in doing so over a period of time. and you didn't do all of the things that you are now telling us you would do and didn't even try to do them and mismanaged covid. she has a lot to work with. a lot of it also is in the messenger. not only the message. there is a difference between a guy who claims to be a billionaire with golden, you know, arches all over his buildings and his golden bathroom and toilet and all, and a woman who worked at mcdonald's to go through school. so if you are listening to the two of them, when kamala harris

talks about this will cost a family $3,900 more a year, when she talks about giving $25,000 to people to get a home, you're talking from someone, looking at someone, talking that you feel has lived by experience. donald trump has never lived by experience, and he doesn't have a record that shows that he has any concern from my experience. >> revving, why do you think it's worked? why do you think he's successfully convinced some working-class voters that he is on their side? >> because he's been able to convince working-class voters that he speaks to the base element in them that is the other guy's fault. they are the reason that you are where you are. it's us against them and he's used that against women, against blacks, against everybody, and i think the blame-game is what he mastered and no one knew to you

to counter it. it's hard to use the blame game when you have someone who's been part of an administration lowered unemployment and comes out of a hbc worked at mcdonald's. ho how are you going to say she was the cause? i think he can go up against the so-called hitting government, or whatever term he wants to use of those in power with the hidden hand, but how do you do that against a black woman whose mother raced her and a daughter? he can't get his footing on to how to attack somebody that really comes from the category of people that you exploited and was biased against, according to the justice department. kind of hard to get your bearing on that, and i think that's why donald trump is coming up short on a strategy, because he's dealing with a real american who's talking to real americans. >> yeah. tim o'brien. thank you for starting us all on

all of these headlines. great to see you. the rev, stick around. more on the vice president's big speech today with one of her former advisers and allies. california senator laphonza butler and meet the man taking on proud christian nationalists proinsurrectionist hard right senator josh holley. we'll talk to him about his incredible moment in his campaign squaring off hi josh hawley at the state fair. were and donald trump's disdain, says out loud the presidential med medical of freedom is much better than the nation's highest military honor given to those who are often injured or deceased in the line of duty. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today.

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there's a choice in this election. donald trump's plans to devastate the middle class, punish working people and make the cost of living go up for millions of americans, and on the other hand, when i'm a e lected president, what we'll do -- [ applause ] what we will do to bring down costs, increase the security and stability -- >> north carolina, we're going to get this done, and with your help, god bless you, and god bless the united states of america! god bless you. [ cheers and applause ]

vice president kamala harris in north carolina earlier today oh on the stark differences between her economic agenda and donald trump's plan, which she bottom lines as a basically a trump tax. let's bring into our coverage democratic senator laphonza butler of california. the rev and aishya are still with us. senator butler, you know policy but you also know politics and the map. talk about north carolina. it is looking very, i don't know if possible is the right word, probable. it's in play. what do you make of how vice president harris has changed the map? and is changing the map day by day? >> thanks so much for having me, nicolle. the vice president noted in her remarks. she's been to north carolina now 16 times. the putting in play of north carolina is not new for this

campaign team, and we have always known, democrats have always known that north carolina is incredibly important, an incredibly important state for president's math but also for math in majorities in the house and the senate. the vice president today went to north carolina and spoke directly to the american people, to everyday north carolinian small business owners,king moms, and single dads who know that there has got to be some relief in price. that they want to have a candidate in the white house who represents them and their interests, because she comes from the same kind of a background. so it is the ability to connect. it is the willingness and determination to invest and it matters the quality of candidates that we have, and the integrity in which they are able to inspire voters to believe and trust and go along and make the

commitment that we are not going back, and i think that's what the harris-walz ticket is doing. what vice president harris has been doing and what was so exciting about today. >> let me just play for our audience your first floor speech as a senator, and this is from back in january. >> my presence in these hallowed halls is only made possible by senator carol moseley braun and now vice president kamala harris. both of whom were historic members of this great chamber and to stand on their shoulders as the only black woman in this chamber today, i am eternally grateful. while i may be new to this title and to this institution, i am not new to the struggle and the work of justice. i rise today urgent about the future of our nation's children.

if our children are our future, let us be urgent about the promise of america. it must be that we put our future first, because their lives are depending on us today. >> i play that, such a powerful reminder of the vice president's history in the senate. and that when she left, until you were there, you know, she left a vacuum. i just wonder what you think when you see the country responding to her now banging on this glass ceiling for women and for women of color, and having the country and literally every, every part of the democratic coalition and beyond responding so favorably and with such enthusiasm about her candidacy? >> nicolle, this is a moment that i think we have not only a

historic opportunity but an opportunity to elect a candidate that actually has a vision for the future. who believes in the promise of america and believes that everyone has a place in it, and you look at her opponent, and it truly is a candidate who has no vision. who only believes in a government that will work for the wealthiest among us. so this is, yes, a historic opportunity and it is with deep pride that i am committed to do everything that i can to tell the story of this incredible public servant, and to do everything that is required to make sure that she is the next president, because i know the future of our children depend on it. and that's what's really driving urgency for me in this moment and i think is what is driving so much of the choice and

movement and excitement and inspiration about voters on the ground, whether talking north carolina or ohio, arizona, pennsylvania or any state in between. >> with your knowledge, you know, of what happens on the ground in the final days, any election with so much on the line, what are you watching? what do you wake up and check in the morning positive in terms of indications of how voters are leaning or what they're thinking about? >> honestly, nicolle, i look at activities and reports of young voters. there are patterns that we can determine the outlines and's how older voters, voters who have been participating in the process and know their way around it. yes, probably just now able to focus on the candidates that are in front of them and the policies that they are putting forward, but to me it's an

election that will be determined by those who future is truly at stake. so every day when i hear that democrats are now leading republicans in voter registration in states like north carolina, majority of them being new registrants under the age of 24, that's and indication for me. when i see the activities of young influencers online and showing up telling their version of this election and what it means to them, when i see young leaders activating all across blue states and red states fighting for the right to maintain a decision about whether they can have an abortion or not, it is, to me, the truth tell where we're headed. when young leaders dhaerm they are going to fight for the future that they deserve and not have a candidate carry us backwards as donald trump is intending to do.

>> rev? >> i wanted to ask the senator, i've known you since you were a labor organizer. >> yes. >> and the issues that you just alluded to, women's rights, voting rights, affirmative action, all of that has been set back by donald trump. how much of that, of the fact of, yes, we need young voters energized. young leaders and young influencers and remind them they may be the first generation that has less rights and less an advantage to level up, as they say, than their parents did. how much of that needs to be communicated in the closing days to really push turnout? >> you know, rev, i think young leaders and all voters know what is at stake, but we have got to continue to make it plain. now, we can't talk about this thing as if it is a ph.d.

dissertation. we have to talk about the kitchen table issues, fundamental rights being threatened and frankly talk about the hope and opportunity of tomorrow, the power that truly is in their hands to determine. there is a threat in donald trump and project 2025 and those minions who look to carry this country backwards to take away the rights to make a decision an your own body. to take away access to public education by eliminating the federal department of education, to make decisions about what books you can or cannot read in a classroom, the threats are very clear, and i think what vice president harris did today, which is also very important to the argument that needs to be mad is so, what are you going to do about it? that's the key element, to me, that is actually turning in this election discourse. we have a candidate who actually is smart enough to have a lived

experience and a vision you that she can clearly communicate to every-day voters to connect with in every-dayterms and seeking to bring us together as a nation. you have to be able to do both parts of this candidacy to completely -- >> why would -- we -- >> senator, alfonzo butler. thank you for joining us. we'll continue to call on you at as the election inches closer. up next for us here, missouri republican josh hawley's democratic challenger gets help from one of the state's most famous residents. actor john goodman. in the form of a fantastic new ad. we'll play it for you right here, next. missing out on the things you love because of asthma? get back to better breathing with fasenra,

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republican senator josh hawley of fame fancies him such a man's man, whatever that actually is, he literally wrote a book about it. wrote a book about masculinity as he sees masculinity. man manifesto, lack of a better term, by-product of a carefully man cured image, so-called conservative values, advocate for the forgotten man.

emphasis on the word "man." but the show-me state republican graduate with a soft spot showed exactly he he is on january 6th. a phony and fraud. remember his famous fist up photo delighting the crowd that would go on to ransack the united states capitol and engage in medieval contact. a crowd from whom he would flee during the attempted coup to later object to certifying the election results. now years after that lesson in bravery, josh hawley wants a us to think he's an advocate for organized labor at least until someone called him out on it.

>> so that was lucas kunce. a 13-year marine veteran, challenging hawley this november. he and his team have a powerful new ad out this week topic family values. narrated by john goodman. put that up. >> family values. i learned what that meant while growing up in the most beautiful state in the union. ♪♪ >> and what that didn't mean. family values didn't mean cruelty. it didn't mean fake patriotism. it didn't mean telling people how to live. or family profits. family values is really about people taking care of each other and doing the right thing through good times -- and tough times. >> come on down, lucas! come on down.

>> all that other noise from the politicians, that's something else. in missouri, this november, no matter your party, no matter how you voted before, you have a real choice in the senate race. family values with lucas kunce or something else with josh hawley. >> our coverage, aforementioned lucas kuntz. a 13-year marine veteran running to replace josh hawley as the senator from missouri. thank you so much for being leer. >> of course. thanks for having me. it's my pleasure. >> tell me about this showdown. played a little bit of it at the state fair yesterday. feels like peak missouri you guys had a standoff at the state fair. >> yeah. pretty wild, actually. i tried to meet him last summer at the state fair and typical josh hawley style skidded off and got away. so i wasn't sure what would

happen this year and hanging out with a crowd of people. talking to regular everyday missourians out of nowhere like the u.s. senator from missouri comes flying in fast as he can. yelling, i couldn't tell what he was yelling at first, and just kind of came right at me, and -- talking about debates. you know, saying, let's debate. let's debate. we tried to have five debates. i've agreed to five of them including one on fox news. the guy needs safe spaces to get out there. he won't do any of them. a really weird thing to have him chase me down and keep yellingality me basically. i'm trying to be nice. tried to greet him. got a second for a story, i just, the weirdest part about is is i'm sure a lot of viewers have never run into someone like this face-to-face. i never had. just sort of these pretender politicians, but he's there just yapping up at me. yelling and yelling and yelling, and -- i kind of, like --

laughed a little bit at one point. i don't remember when i said anything or smiled. it's like, this weird thing happened. his eyes twitched. you could see him start to crack a smile like a kid when they get caught lying and then it's just -- dump right back in double. i guess it's on now. have to do this. but it's just -- it was just a real good example of how performative and fake this all is. right? which is hugely disappointing when we have so many problems with our country. >> yeah. what is the read on his conduct? i mean, lifelong republican liz cheney seemed to single out josh hawley for specific and personal scorn. for his conduct on january 6th. and it was for the reason of the raised fist sort are inciting signaling he stood with the trump supporters there to attack police officers. you know, to desecrate the

united states capitol. to vandalize it, to injure lawmakers, several of them would lose their lives. after the january 6th insurrection. and then to be, you know, to be running faster than just about anyone caught on videotape that day, away from the people he incited with his raised fist. what is the view in missouri about this conduct on that day? >> just really embarrassing. right? he showed us all who he was. he thought it would give him power. out there raising his fist, inciting the crowd. when things got real he's running out the back door. i was a marine 13 years, deployed toatic afghanistan. a lot of trouble in you ran away from the enemy back in the day. it's just, i don't know what's going through the guy's head. in missouri it's embarrassing, and it's also really sad, because here in missouri we deserve a senator who's going to stand up for our rights, care about us. bring ban back to the state and he doesn't do any of those thing. you can see that in communities

i grew up in that are suffering now. >> what is the fight about the debates about? that you've agreed to the five televised debates, and he wants to debate you somewhere else? >> we've agrode to the five televised debates. he's sort of coming up with different stunts. like, let's have a debate on the state fairgrounds. the state fairgrounds asked us not to can do that. no. you're not welcome here. then one endorsing organizations to host one. violates federal election laws. couldn't do that. just like, i don't know why the guy can't be normal and agree to do the five televised debates as offered. offered one on fox news. seem to be interested. should be a safer space for him. >> he is right now it a "no" on the fox news debate with you? >> yeah. we haven't gotten him to accept any of them. the part that kills me about that, as a u.s. senator, two

jobs. bring money back to the state and meet with constituents and tell everybody where you stand on the issues and the reason he doesn't want to do debates is because he doesn't want to have to answer for things like why he thinks in vitro contraception and abortion are murder. robbed $250,000 from taxpayers and get to rid of divorces, people trapped in marriages. he doesn't want to answer. throwing stunts. this hits myold neighborhood. background on me. i grew up, my parents got married young in middle missouri, 19 and 22 years old. catholic followed the rules. you know what that means, kid, kid, kid, kid and the paycheck. stopped at four kids my little sister had to have an open heart surgery. very, very hard on a feel like ours living paycheck to paycheck

and made it through, went bankrupt. no more money than we did passed the plate at my mom's prayer group. brought more food by the house and take care of us. i joined 9 marine corps to serve, protect, did 13 years iraq and afghanistan. josh hawley's point of view now is that people in my neighborhood should have second-class rights. right? none of us access to the reproductive care we need. no invitro fertilization. no abortion. doesn't want the right to organization and doesn't want to take care of us's. this doesn't affect country club. we deserve someone too will do more than serve themselves rather than stunty stuff to get more seconds on tv, i don't know. >> not the seconds where he's on tv with you, actually having this debate. i want to ask you about what's

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♪♪ ♪ i am, i cried ♪ from the united states postal service. [ laughing ] ♪ i am, said i ♪ ♪ and i am lost and i can't ♪ punch buggy red. ♪ even say why ♪ ♪ i am, i said ♪ ♪ ♪ we are back with lucas coons running against josh hawley to be the next senator of missouri. tell me how the presidential campaign is playing out. i know missouri isn't a battle ground state, but everything that happens in this country affects everything living in

that state, and that contest has been reshuffled with kamala harris becoming the democratic nominee and tim walz her nominee. what are the conversations in your neighborhood about the presidential contest and the stakes? >> i think a lot of people are really excited. it's a very historic moment and they should be excited. there's a ton of energy going around. it's not just that, but you know, it's my race, josh hawley being crazy, and it's also here in missouri we have a constitutional amendment to protect the right to abortion in the state that's coming up this fall. and people here just -- we have been clawing back power for the last several years at the ballot box through these ballot initiatives and people are stoked to have that back. right now, we have one of the most restrictive laws in the entire country. it's no exceptions for rape or incest from the beginning, no abortion. it's really sad to see, but it's beautiful to see the way that everybody wants to take that power back. that petition got twice the number of signatures that it was

supposed to get or that it needed, and it's just going to win, because people are tired of politicians deciding how they get to live, basically. >> when you hear donald trump, as you did yesterday, denigrate the service of our -- almost celebrated veterans by saying that the medal he gave to one of his donors was better than the one that typically goes to american veterans and heroes, what do you think about that world view where he believes that those who die serving their country are suckers and losers? i worked for john mccain, who he denigrated by saying he liked people who didn't get caught. i also worked for the bushes who he insulted bush 41. his disdain for people who are injured, he didn't want to see them at events, according to

people like chairman mark knolly and others. what do you think of the world view of somebody like that? >> i'll tell you what, my view of veterans is so different. i mean, i just -- when i was a kid, one of the guys who really took care of our family was a vietnam vet, and he used to take me down to the marine corps league with him. i would hang out with these guys who were pretty much all drafted, they didn't have a choice to serve. they saw really hard things. a lot of their friends were killed overseas in vietnam. they came home and got an awful reception. yet every time i went down to the marine corps league, these men just loved their community so much. they would do anything for all of us. they would do anything for anybody in that community. no matter how hard they had it and what they were going through personally. an example i'll give is when i was a kid, one of those guys, you know, he realized we didn't have a dishwasher at the church

kitchen, so my little sister and i always volunteered to do the dishes when chores came up. and he is like, what is wrong with these kids? what kids want to do the dishes? he figured out we wanted to do the dishes because without a dishwasher at home, we just throw these dishes in there and walk away. he thinks we're doing work, and he has no idea. he remembered that in several years later, he shows up at our house after remodeling his kitchen and has all of his kids go outside and in the back of his pickup truck was his old dishwasher and installed it for us. so there are heroes like that all around the state and this country. therapy idols. that's who i wanted to be like. why i became a marine and stuck it out for 13 years. i'm still in the reserves. i was proud to go to iraq on missions up and down the roads

of the sunni triangle where my job was to bring home everybody safe. it's time we took care of veterans back at home. josh hawley refused and stalled out on the pact act because he wanted to play politics. one of the problems we're seeing in missouri right now, and one of the reasons i'm going to win this race, we don't have a single veteran in our congressional delegation, not one member of the house, not one senator has ever served. it's why you see people like josh hawley who write books about manhood when the guys who lived it are the guys down at the marine corps league and real masculinity is taking care of your neighbors in the community. it's not grand standing and doing all the things he does. >> please keep us posted as your race enters its final 77 days before election day. thank you very much for joining us today. >> thanks for doing this. up next for house, another

mask off moment for donald trump and his contempt for those who served and sacrificed for our country, referring to a civilian medal as better than the medal of honor. better than the medal of honor ♪ (man) yes! ♪ (vo) you've got your sunday obsession and we got you. now with verizon, get nfl sunday ticket from youtube tv on us and get every out-of-market sunday game. plus $800 off samsung galaxy z fold6. only on verizon. (jalen hurt) see you sunday. our right to reproductive health care is being stolen from us. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies. we need your support now more than ever. go online, call, or scan this code, with your $19 monthly gift. and we'll send you this "care. no matter what" t-shirt.

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each of you know what it means to stair down danger in a moment of trial. we're grateful for all that you have done and so many more. >> of all the privileges of this office, none is greater than serving as the commander in chief of the finest military that the world has ever known.

and of all the military decorations that our nation can bestow, we have none higher than the medal of honor. >> when you meet a veteran who wears that medal, remember the moment. because you are looking at one of the brave ever to wear our country's uniform. >> today, we recognize seven men as being among the bravest of the brave. each of them distinguished themself with extraordinary valor, in the famous words that the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in the east. the highest military honor one can receive is the medal of honor bestowed by the commander in chief to individuals who exhibit extraordinary bravery in combat who, in some cases, make the ultimate sacrifice. this highest honor for valor has been awarded to just 3,519

recipients out of the more than 41 million individuals who have served our country. among those remarkable recipients are desmond doss, a world war ii army medic who put himself in danger to help wounded soldiers. he rescued 75 men trapped at the top of a cliff. staff sergeant ronald shurer. he saved several soldiers in afghanistan. he died in the attack because of his efforts. milton l. olive, iii, the first african american soldier to receive this honor. at the age of 18, he sacrificed his life to save others by falling on a grenade. mary edwards walker was an acting surgeon during the civil war and the only female recipient. commander howard gilmore was killed in action in world war ii when his submarine was under

attack. when he realized he could not get back in the vessel, he real -- he yelled "take her down." colonel jack jacobs, during the vietnam war, he pulled 14 men to safety while under enemy fire. with all of that fresh in your mind, listen to what donald trump, the republican nominee for president, said out loud with cameras rolling last night at a fund-raiser at his golf club. he was speaking about awarding mariam edleson, widow of sheldon edleson. >> i have to say, i watched she wouldon sitting in the white house, giving him the presidential -- it's the

equivalent of the congressional medal of honor, but civilian version. it's actually much better, because everyone gets the congressional medal of honor, that soldiers, they're easter in very bad shape because they've been hit so many times or they're dead. she gets it, and she's a healthy, beautiful woman. >> so, again, not a gotcha moment. nothing caught on secret hidden camera. public statements. a disgusting and shameful display from anyone, especially someone who wants to be our country's commander in chief. it's a flagrant display of disrespect to the men and women who put their lives on the line and commit heroic acts on the battlefield to protect all of us and our way of life. retired marine corps lieutenant colonel amy mcgraph said --

>> as galling as his comments are, they're not surprising given the ex-president's long history of disparaging our veterans. publicly and privately. his chief of staff confirmed that he called those who fought for our country "suckers and losers." he questioned why someone would serve in the united states military, and he even criticized former senator john mccain, a prisoner of war, for being captured. this is who donald trump really is. and this is where we start the hour with some of our favorite military experts and friends. medal of honor recipient jack jacobs is here, with retired

general barry mccaffrey, retired lieutenant colonel amy mcgraph, and the host of the "independent america's podcast," founder of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america, paul is here. thank you all for being here. thank you all for your service. i can't believe we have to have this conversation, colonel jack, but here we are. i guess what i want to ask you is, do the -- do your peers, do the men and women, do veterans, do the men and women of the military understand that donald trump not only doesn't respect them, but really does see them as suckers and losers? >> well, many do, but many don't. despite the fact that donald trump is one of the most inept public speakers i've heard, and i'm an old person, so i've heard a great number of public

speakers, and you often don't know what it is he's saying, not convinced that he knows what it is he's saying. he drifted off in castigating people who have served and sacrificed and can't tell the difference between the medal of freedom and the medal of honor. we have to remember that this is the man who, as you said, denigrated people who served and sacrificed so that he can enjoy the freedom that he enjoys now. and if it weren't for these people, he wouldn't be in the position where he could enjoy freedom. the other thing to keep in mind, this is also the guy who managed to avoid serving because of a heel spur on his foot. all that not with standing, the problem in this regard is that

donald trump does not understand some of the things which in history have described how we get to a position where we can have freedom. that is through the service and sacrifice of others. i'm reminded of the observation of the first century hebrew scholar who wrote "if i'm only for myself, what am i?" well, if you're only for yourself, you're probably donald trump. or the observation almost as poignantly of john stewart mill, who wrote about war. trump ought to like him, because he was something of an individualist and a libertarian, who wrote that a man for whom nothing is more important than his own safety is a miserable creature, who is made free and kept free by better men than he. nicolle? >> i love that. colonel jack, you might be mad at me for doing this, but i'm

going to show our viewers some of the video of when president nixon awarded you this medal. and i'm going to share a little bit more, the history of your service. your battalion came under intense heavy machine gun and mortar fire from a vietcong battalion, you were wounded but assumed command of the company, ordered a withdrawal from the exposed position, established a defensive perimeter, and despite your own wounds, profuse bleeding from head wounds that impaired your vision, disregard for your own safety, returned intense fire to evacuate a seriously wounded adviser to the safety of a wooded area where you administered first aid. you then returned to evacuate the wounded company commander. you made repeated trips across the open rice paddies evacuating wounded and their weapons. your actions saved the lives of

a u.s. adviser and 13 allied soldiers. we don't read -- brian williams probably did, and that's one of the many reasons we miss him, but we don't read all that when we ask for your advice. but some of what -- i worry about many things when i worry about donald trump, but i worry about the eraser of selflessness, and i worry about what donald trump normalizes with his disgust of veterans, one of the things i read during his presidency is he stood with general kelly and didn't understand basically his pride in having a son who sacrificed, who lost his life serving the country. he sees people who put something other than themselves above self-interest as suckers and losers. that's his words. what do we do with a country the fact that he's been elevated a

third time, that an entire political party elevated somebody who sees service that way? >> we all have to do a much better job of educating this generation and future generations about the importance of democracy, and how costly it is to get it and to keep it. we have -- listen, you're looking at somebody who believes in universal service. i think anybody who is lucky ghy owes it something in the form of service. it's only until we have a system in which everybody has to make a contribution to freedom that we will value those things, and therefore reject those who think that people who serve and sacrifice are losers. those of us who served in combat, general mccaffrey and everybody else, who has been in uniform, but particularly those who served in combat, understand how important it is that we take

care of each other. that's how we defeat the enemy, and we come home and we preserve freedom. unless we can educate future generations about the importance of doing that, that that is the route to freedom. we will always be at risk in this situation and we'll be at risk from demagogues who try to negate the efforts of those who made this country great and who will keep it great. education is the only way that we can reach into the future, and we have to do a much better job of educating our future generations, nicolle. >> general mccaffrey, you two may be mad at me at the end of this segment, but you received three purple heart medals for injuries sustained during your service in the vietnam war, two silver stars and two distinguished service crosses, the second highest united states

army award for valor. and i guess part of the reason i want to remind all of our viewers of your contributions to our country is because i truly find it terrifying, that someone has been elevated by the voters, again of one of the two parties, who, again, would redefine heroism and patriotism and service to mean that sheldon aidleson's wife is the same as you and colonel jack. >> he insisted on going back to vietnam at the end of the war to keep our few living medal of honor recipients alive.

when he got back there, his helicopter was shot down and he was darn near killed, rejoining his unit. so it's an interesting sort of record jack has in public. look, the medal of freedom is a distinguished, glorious award to recognize science, medicine, athletes, artists, musicians. it's a terrific award. the recipient that trump was talking about in public is a distinguished israeli american physician who has a salient aspect or bio that she's worth $28 billion, and she funds trump. so we got to put that aside. look, at the end of the day, mr. trump and that sort of incoherent babble talk, it was hard to sort out what he was really saying, is someone who has no understanding of public service.

it's just foreign to his idea. at one point he told howard stern in a radio interview that he deserved the medal of honor for not getting an std during vietnam. so there's a comical aspect of the man that really is shocking, as you point out. >> what does the country -- what does the country owe for men and women who have served in how to kocover this and what it reveal about donald trump, general mccaffrey? >> look, we start with 240 million in the country, we have 2.1 million women and men in the active forces in the guard and reserves, and they all got families. like your prior interview with the candidate for the senate in missouri. they stepped forward,

volunteers. they are non-felony offenders. they have high school degrees. they are people from solid backgrounds, and they want to serve. i think that aspect -- it is something that jack says, we have to make sure we're passing on to future generations. this country didn't stay in tact as a functioning democracy, the wealthiest nation on the face of the earth in history by accident. it got that way because all sorts of people were willing to step forward and protect it and the risk of their own lives. and they don't do it for money. they do it because they want to make sure their mom and dad honor them, and that they're willing to put themselves in harm's way. by the way, there's other forms of public service. you know, teaching in an inner city school system, the peace corps overseas.

political leadership i think is public service. so people have to step forward and say i'm willing to contribute leadership at the risk of my own income, at the risk of my own life, whatever it may be. >> general mccaffrey, you tweeted this, it's impossible to believe that trump is a presidential candidate could sound this ignorant. disordered language, incoherent thinking, fifth grade stuff. yes, and there's such a long line now of insults for the men and women of the military not going to the cemetery in paris. not wanting wounded veterans to be seen at ceremonies because "nobody wants to see that." the losers and suckers, the insults for john mccain, the insults for george bush, those were -- i mean, at what point do we really settle into and understand that he has disdain

for the men and women of the military? >> you know, it's a world turned upside down. it's hard for me to follow the bouncing ball. john kelly, marine four star, made staff sergeant in the marine corps, combat veteran. lost his son, a young marine lieutenant in combat in afghanistan, he stepped forward and said publicly, look, this guy didn't want to go to the cemetery in europe, nor in arlington and asked what would their motivation be to sacrifice their life for this country? we've got to believe that's actually what trump said, and that's what he believes and thinks, and in my judgment, it makes him unqualified to be the president of the united states. i think a lot of veterans, though, as jack pointed out, are supporting trump. they're blocking out this message for a variety of

reasons, which a democratic party better figure out why that is. because on the face of it, he's incoherent, he's unqualified, he's ignorant. this is childish stuff. that's who is running for president in the republican party now. it's a bad situation for all of us. >> no one's going anywhere. we have much more with our panel as donald trump demonstrates once again, again and again, his disrespect and disdain for those who put on the uniform for our country. in some cases have made the ultimate sacrifice. later this hour, what is next for the ukrainian military now that it has stunned moscow and taken over a town inside russia? our experts weigh in on whether we're witnessing a turning point in the more than 2 1/2 year war there. we continue after a quick break. there. we continue after a quick break. inez, let me ask you, you're using head & shoulders, right? only when i see flakes. then i switch back to my regular shampoo. you should use it every wash,

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i am damn proud of my service to this country. and i firmly believe you should never denigrate another person's service record. anyone brave enough to put on that uniform for our great country, including my opponent, i have a few simple words -- thank you for your service and sacrifice. >> we're back with my guests. amy, we've had this rolling conversation that i think gets really close to this nerve, right, that if you believe in

your country and you serve your country, it's something extra, it's something better than the rest of us. to see a candidate for president say no, it's not, this one's better, this medal for this person who never served, is better. it's so disorienting. it almost doesn't have -- it almost scrambles the circuits. i wonder from your view, from your perch, from your service and active role in politics, what the appropriate response is to someone who sees service in our military that way? >> well, first of all, when i heard about it last night, i mean, i was shocked just the same way anybody watching that would be shocked. even after all of these years of watching trump, i was shocked. >> yeah. >> and under no -- in no plant is it okay to say that a medal

that you gave to your rich donor is better than or even the same as the medal of honor. and i think, you know, it just shows this total lack of understanding of what it means to be commander in chief, a total lack of understanding of the culture of the united states military, a culture of the greatest fighting force that's ever been around on this planet. and it just -- like, i think about it as donald trump is not even fit to be in the room with colonel jacobs and general mccaffrey in my mind. that is how important the medal of honor is to veterans and should be to the american public. i think a lot of veterans feel that way. >> you know, amy, we've talked a lot about how impactful general

milley would be or secretary mattis would be, and i've been unsparing in my enthusiasm for them to step into the public arena. i heard this comment yesterday, and i really have a different layer of understanding about how painful it must have been to seven someone who wanted his generals, and make no mistake, he didn't view them as american heroes the way the public did, the way most people do. he viewed them as "my generals." general kelly was his general, and in trump's mind, was subservient to him, not in the chain of command but the way that someone that worked in one of his clubs is. that's how trump saw these men and women. amy, i wonder if it's just too painful to sort of relive what it was like to work for someone who wanted his generals to be more like the germans, and when general kelly pressed him about

which germans, it was clear he meant nazis, about what it was like to denigrate the service of general kelly's own son who paid the ultimate price for our country. i just wonder if this comment yesterday deepens our understanding of why some of those men don't want to weigh into our politics? >> well, i think some have. and general kelly, as was brought up earlier, has said look, donald trump said these things. so i do think that some have come out. what i wish for general mattis and some others to come forward a little bit more? yeah, i would. i can't speak as to the reasons why they haven't. but a number of people have, and i do believe that, you know, we should listen to them and we should continue to talk about this because it is important. it is important for our country. i mean, how can we have a

commander in chief who fundamentally does not understand the nation's highest honor and the sacrifices and what it all means. it's not -- it's not an honor, as trump said, given to people who have been shot or injured. yes, there are some that have been injured and shot, you know, getting or earning that medal, but it's a medal for bravery. it's a medal when you jump on a grenade to help your buddies to save their lives. it's medal as you're a pilot for taking your machine back into battle where you could be shot down and killed in order to save someone else. that's what this medal is about. and donald trump has no clue about that, or he never would have made these comments. >> paul, it is also important to view it as a continuum. his affinity for vladamir putin and kim jong-un is part of his

disdain for the military and military service, because if you love our adversaries and enemies, you don't understand that american men and women, generations of them, paid with their lives for us to live a totally different way of life here in a free democracy. just talk about what these comments reveal for you, if anything. >> this is who donald trump is. he's been this guy from the beginning. he can't change who he is, and he's doubling down on it over and over again. he's so arrogant that he doesn't back off. i'm honored to be on a panel with these heroes. i'm glad you read that citation, everyone should read id. i would tell donald trump to read it, but it probably wouldn't matter because this is a giant, teachable moment. now everybody watching, especially young people, are going to better understand what the medal of honor means, what freedom means, what leadership means. what leadership means is sacrifice. that's what donald trump is

unwilling to do. that's why putin and everyone else are celebrating him. our enemies are celebrating when they see a former commander in chief attack our military. and he's done it over and over again. he's done it in so many ways, and each if it's not malicious, it's sloppy and unacceptable and it's weird. i think it's really moved beyond being just about trump. we know who he is. the question now is for the americans who are on the fence. this is not just about him, it's about you. are you okay with a guy being our commander in chief who thinks that way about people like jack jacobs and about people like buddy who we just lost a couple of weeks ago and sal genta. if he feels that way, how do you think he feels about you as an average person, somewhere in ohio or pennsylvania and florida? i think that's the deeper conversation we have to have here. if he feels that way about our

country's superheroes, he feeling that way probably even worse about the every man and every woman. >> paul, general mccaffrey said it's up to democrats to make sure people understand that. what is the new opportunity with your friend, governor wallace, on the ticket to do just that? >> well, it's an opportunity for the democrats to go on the offense and to teach the country what service is all about. we talked about this the other day. i think it's important to draw the contrast between the types of leaders that these guys are. we've got three guys on a ticket now, and there are two on one side that are very different than the other one. we would be better off if there were no guys on the ticket, but there are three. but the two on the right are horrible human beings. they're bad leaders. and tim walz is a selfless leader who has given back his entire career, as a coach, as a teacher and his time in the military. drawing that contrast between weird and good and dark and

honorable and bad and nice is really important, because not only are our enemies are watching, but our kids are watching. my son turns 9 tomorrow, it's his birthday. he can see that's not how you're supposed to be. i would call on independents especially, now is the time to come off the sidelines and speak out. it's not acceptable to say i was in the military and i can't get involved in politics. this is about much more than politics, it's about the future of our country. everybody needs to come off the sidelines and call him out for what he is and use it as a teachable moment, because the younger generation is watching. if you accept this, they will think it's acceptable and erode the foundation of what this country is all about. >> colonel jack, everything that trump was doing ties back to folks like general -- chairman of the joint chiefs, general milley or general kelly who was

at the white house, trying to walk the country off the brink of a conflict with north korea. chairman milley saying, no, we're not going to do that. what does it mean to the country to have to sort of pull the military into our politics because the guy running to be president atop the republican ticket wants to pull them into his abusive power? how do we -- how do we sort of break down the typical hurdles for folks in the military to step right into our politics over the next 79 days? >> well, it turns out that most of the people at the top of the military food chain already understand that. when you're at the bottom, when you get an order, unless it's immoral or illegal, you carry it out. even to the debtment in your own unit. this happens all the time. sometimes your unit has to be sacrificed in order for the

mission to be accomplished by others. sometimes a unit has to be sacrificed so that the units on your left and right manage to survive. but when you get to be at the top of the food chain, you're responsible for making sure not only that we don't do anything that's immoral or illegal, you're also responsible for making sure that we don't do anything stupid. and that's the burden of people at the top of the military food chain. that's why we have or like to have absolutely the best people we can possibly find, who are close to the nexus of power to make sure nothing stupid happens, nicolle. >> i too feel like it's a privilege and honor to get to have all of you here in one place at one time. thank you so much for having this conversation. i'm sure it is to be continued. general mccaffrey sticks around for the rest of the hour. when we come back, the shocking cross-border assault by ukrainian forces inside russia. it is the first time russia has

been attacked by a foreign power since world war ii. ukrainian president zelenskyy saying his troops have captured a russian town. what that means for the larger war, and what happens next after a very short break. stay with us. after a very short break stay with us

ukraine is right in the middle of what has been a very successful incursion inside russia, and the first invasion in russia since the second world war that seems to have taken both sides by surprise. ukraine claims to have taken

full control of the strategic russian town of susa about six miles from the border. it is the largest of more than 80 settlements ukraine has seized in the last 11 days. they don't appear to be leaving any time soon. president zelenskyy says ukraine is reaching its strategic goal in the region. ukrainian troops participating in the incursion were told their mission only a day before it began. battle hardened, mechanized units overwhelmed lightly armed russian border guards and small units consisting of inexperienced conscripts. hundreds were taken prisoner, ukrainian officials said. ukrainians drove deep into the region in several directions, facing little resiresistance. joining us is former u.s. ambassador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst, ambassador michael mccaul is

back. general mccaffrey is still with us. mr. ambassador, i start with you. no one should underestimate president zelenskyy, but i wonder if you had this on your bingo card that this is what we would be talking about this week? >> no, i did not. that's exactly what president zelenskyy and his team wanted. they learned a lesson from the last counteroffensive when it was talked about incessantly. this time around, this was the element of surprise that they needed, and i'm not going to pretend to be a general on television, especially when you have general mccaffrey here. let him talk about the military details of this. but psychologically, i can tell you, talking to people in kyiv, this is a major positive move at a time when ukrainian society needed it, and at the same

time,ky tell you from talking to russians, mostly living abroad, but with connections back home, this is a shocker. they never expected that vladamir putin would be the leader that would allow his country, as you said before the break, to be invaded for the first time since 1941. >> yeah, i guess ambassador, it makes me want to understand how tight putin's grip is on state media and propaganda. do ordinary russians understand that their country has been invaded by ukraine? >> yes. so the media is very tight, there's no protests, but there's lots of social media. when you're evacuating tens of thousands of people as they have, that is appearing on their social media, and there's even some polling data, you know, pretty funky polling data because it's hard to do real polling, showing less support for putin nationally, and in the region in particular, a real

falloff among emotional support for vladamir putin. so you can't hide something this big, and everybody is talking about it. that is for sure. >> so general mccaffrey, first of all, how did ukraine pull this off? >> well, it's a remarkable, daring, and risky operation. they did manage to maintain operational security, which is extremely tough to do in an age of drone warfare. they picked their target quite correctly, it was lightly defended. the initial penetration, i think, was with one one mechanized brigade and air assault brigade. it probably surprised the ukrainians how well it went. they had good electronic warfare. they had good air defense. the conscripts that were thrown against them aren't willing to fight, they're untrained, they're kids, they don't know what they're doing. the russian response was

abysmal, slow, hesitant. it hasn't worked yet. they're now trying to expand the penetration in adjoining areas. so we'll see how this plays out. but it was a stunning upset to putin. it changed the way the war is seen as measured. and out of it, may come some political good. >> elaborate on that. is the military strategy and service strengthened negotiating position, or is it -- is it a new front? do they plan on going further and further, in your view, general mccaffrey? >> 700-mile frontier. the heaviest fighting in the east and in the south has been more akin to world war i, the battle of verdun.

artillery fire, killer drones, electronic warfare, small groups of dug-in infantry being resupplied with water and ammunition by drone. it's been horrific. and the russians, with such more resources behind them, have been gradually grinding down the ukrainian armed forces, who are pulling back. this sudden surprise attack has achieved not just a military setback for the russians, which they're going to try to exploit further, but this many ways took the ukrainian civilian population and lifted them off of a very skeptical view of where their future lay. i don't think we understand where this is going to come out. i don't see how ukraine holds a deep penetration 25 miles across. they're undermanned. they clearly need better support from the united states and nato nations.

we need to lift these restrictions on the use of u.s. supply technology, so they can strike deep targets that are attacking ukraine, even if the firing units are in russia. we have to rethink the whole proposition. but i have such admiration for the ukrainians, the armed forces, their political leadership. they're trying to save their country from a criminal invasion. >> no one is going anywhere. we'll be right back. is going an. we'll be right back.

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human way to healthcare. we're back with my guests. ambassador, what do you think putin makes of the seismic in the 2024 presidential campaign here in this country? >> it's a disaster. i haven't talked to putin personally about it, but i see what his propaganda is saying on tv, and they're just -- they were talking about the new relationship they're going to have with president trump back in power. obviously for them first and foremost, they thought that would mean a good deal for them with respect to ukraine. and now that's all completely been -- well, it's too early, we don't know who is the next president, but they are in a very dower mood, because the

person they thought would help them in ukraine is now in real trouble. >> general mccaffrey, i'm sure there were a lot of reasons why putin met with kim jong-un, but one of those reasons might have been that trump loves them both the most. he has the most nice things to say about kim jong-un and vladamir putin with xi coming in a close third. what do you think the sort of calculations among our adversaries are as they watch our politics? i feel like someone like putin, whatever he was going to do when it was trump versus biden, is maybe amped up by a factor of ten. >> well, i think you're directing to the desperation with which putin is now looking at his options. one of the thing ambassador mcfaul is more qualified than i am to talk about is the russian people. they are magnificent people. you know, ballet, literature, science, mathematics, the courage of their army was

legendary in world war ii. they had this opportunity that opened up on glasnow, they were making the most of it, they were moving ahead and now they are an isolated, despised, feared political regime. they managed to unify nato, they are under economic constraints and when he flashing around publicly endorsed by north korea, a more savage, repressive, primitive society is hard to find, the iranians, to some extent the chinese who are trying to be cautious. so he is isolated, he is in trouble. i think he's hopeful that mr. trump would turn the ukrainians over to him. i think that's his last calculus. >> you know, ambassador, we've been warned by our intelligence agencies that election interference is something to keep an eye out for. do you have increased concerns

or -- i mean -- and i'm not saying that they would do something necessarily criminal, but just using our own information and free flow of social media platforms against us. what is your degree of concern about what russia will do over the next 80 days? >> i don't know for sure, but i do know that the social media companies are devoting less attention to looking for it, and academic institutions, too. so i think it's going to be a much greater free-for-all this time around than it was four years ago. >> ambassador mcfaul, general barry mccaffrey, thank you both so much for having this conversation with us, we're grateful. another break for us. we will be right back. ul. another break for us we will be right back. crohne after a tnf blocker like humira or remicade? put them in check with rinvoq. rinvoq works differently and it's a once-daily pill. when symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief with rinvoq. check. when flares tried to slow me down, i got lasting steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when my doctor saw damage,

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