july 19. energized kratzer now moving to the next stage. >> i am very comfortable and confident that we are going to continue at this pace, but we still have to understand the fight is not over. but we know when we fight, we win. and now we are fighting together. next week vp harris and

governor tim walz will kick off a bus toward through south georgia, ending with a harris rally in the savannah area on thursday. and the vice president is sort of holding mock debate sessionsl with longtime to accredit strategists. that debate, of course, is set for december 10. we have a number of correspondents in place covering all of these new developers. we are going to start eswith ng nbc's aaron gilchrist at the white house. so, what what is the vice president up to this weekend? >> reporter: well, we don't ep expect to see the vice pe president this weekend. she has back here in washington, but there is nothing on her public schedule this weekend. that is going to give her some time, really, to sort of rest after the dnc we saw last week that was really busy for her, and the week asbefore that wher she and her new running mate, tim walz, were barnstorming the country, crisscrossing the country, hitting battleground states. they are going to continue that on wednesday and thursday of w this coming week when they go to georgia. we saw them on a bus tour through western pennsylvania er last weekend. this week they will take that

bus toward to southern georgia. we don't know exactly where they intend to stop area and we do know the vice president has made it a point to reach out to sometimes smaller groups of people, trying to really have that face-to-face time with potential voters. so we anticipate that will be pa part of what she does in georgia. the other part of it oewill be this big rally that is planned in the savannah area. and in the part of the state where you have one of the largest black populations. you have a significant, obviously, rural population, but also urban centers and suburban areas there, as well. so the vice president is really trying to reach out to the same sort of coalition that helped elect president biden in georgia in 2020. i want you to hear what one of her campaign surrogates had to say last hour here on msnbc about why there is some attention, greater attention being focused on georgia. >> i spoke to a lot of delegates and volunteers and leaders from georgia. they are organizing and working every single day.

george's article force, absolutely the right place for the vice president and the governor to come to right after the convention. but i have to tell you, we are going to compete everywhere. we are going to compete in ng every single one of the states. our plan is to win and win big in november. >> the harris campaign has now held hundreds of events across door just the summer started, and now we are going into this, really the final stretch here. typically campaigns really ramp up after their conventions, as we get close to labor day. so we are really in the heart of campaign season, where the am candidates are going to have to make that final push to t convince those few voters who are still on the fence, who maybe have not decided exactly b who they want to vote for at this point. so i think you can expect to see the vice president really trying to do that. we expect that she will sit down with her running mate for their first formal interview at some point this week, before they add many more stops to their schedule, to crisscross those battleground states leading up to the election not in november.

>> you have to get there track shoes on. that applies to you too, my friend. i want to bring o,in alex talbo as he campaigns this week. another welcome to you, alex. we have trump's advisers who av wanted to focus on the issues, but he continues to go off script. so, what have we heard from him? >> well, alex, going off script is nothing new for the former president who is unafraid to speak his mind. last week during the democratic national convention trump t leashed a torrent of attacks on his opponent, vice president kamala harris, unleashing personal attacks and also dubbing her with a new nickname, comrade kamala . last night he held a rally here in arizona in the desert, and he was talking about what his advisers have been telling him. telling him to stop with the personal attacks, to focus on the policy. what it doesn't sound like former president donald trump is heeding that advice. i want you to hear what he said at his

rally in arizona last night. >> then they say to me, sir, please stick to policy. don't stick the personality. you should be nice to people, sir, you have to be nice. i called them up, my geniuses, they get paid a fortune. g actually not that much. what i call up my people and i say they are knocking me, and you say i shouldn't get personal. i have to get shpersonal, don't? >> now, what really differentiated last night from a typical trump rally is that p he picked up a huge endorsement from independent president of candidate robert f kennedy junior. kennedy has a small but enthusiastic base and many other battleground states, and the question a lot of people are wondering now is will those kennedy supporters follow their candidates lead and vote for former president donald trump in november? >> i guess all tbd. we will see. thank you, alex.

rfk junior was at that rally with trump in arizona just hours after he ended his campaign. catherine joining me now with that part of the story. at catherine, what all led to the decision, and how are rfk supporters reacting to this big change? >> yeah, alex, i think it's the race has changed over time, so did rfk junior's chances of actually making a name for himself in this race. obviously when president biden and president trump are the candidates, he's sort of had low single-digit polling numbers, but once vice president, harris enter the race, we saw those numbers decline. so he said he faced an uphill battle when it came to ballot access. he only qualified for ballot access in about 16 states. obviously by november you need to be on 50 states if you'd like to win the election. ke so he said he did not see a path forward in that regard. obviously he faced a lot of ac trials as well, for ballot access. but i r think rfk junior put in perspective, he was also in a financial deficit going into the last couple months of this election, so he put his support

behind former president trump. he said it was a heart- wrenching decision for him to en make, and a lot of it was he didn't want to disappoint his supporters. when i would speak to people across the country, most times o they did prefer former president trump. take a listen to one individual last night who said they are going to support former president trump because of bobby's support for him. >> i'm not going to vote for trump for being trump. i'm going to vote for trump, because if bobby is able to do what he has been asked to do, i will be behind it. because that is going to build the platform. it is going be hard to argue with. having a platform that's unifying, it's going to be hard for people to pick on an individual. and that's what i'm most excited about. >> so, rfk junior did lay out a timeline for us yesterday in li those remarks, basically saying that he met with former president trump, obviously, as we know, in milwaukee. then he later met with him in florida.

it seemed like this process had been in talks for a couple of weeks, but yesterday making it official, suspending his campaign and endorsing former ai president trump. >> catherine, thank you for that. the one group that did not get to speak at the dnc, and the trouble that might bring democrats in november. we are back in 90 seconds. (man) yes! ♪ (vo) you've got your sunday obsession and we got you. now with verizon, get nfl sunday ticket from youtube tv on us and get every out-of-market sunday game. plus $800 off samsung galaxy z fold6. only on verizon. (jalen hurt) see you sunday. (♪♪) (♪♪) voltaren... for long lasting arthritis pain relief. (♪♪)

it ain't my dad's razor, dad. ay watch it! it's from gillettelabs. this green bar releases trapped hairs from my face... gamechanga! ...while the flexdisc contours to it. so the five blades can get virtually every hair in one stroke. for the ultimate gillette shaving experience. the best a man can get is gillettelabs. in cairo, the stage is set for another round of cease-fire talks. israeli and hamas leaders present as the white house press

egyptian and qatari moderators on the urgent need for a deal. the situation in gaza and grows increasingly dire. it's health ministry announcing this morning it has run out of most essential medicines and supplies. joining me now with more from jerusalem is nbc's. another welcome. what we know about how this next stage of cease-fire talks is expected to play out >> reporter: well, the good news is that hamas is on the ground. they arrived today to be briefed by the mediators from qatar and egypt on the talks that have been ongoing for about 48 hours now. they involved american and israeli officials as well. a hamas official confirming to nbc news that they will not be taking part directly in those talks, they are there to listen to what the mediators have to say. but the good news, as i say, is that they are there and hamas could've chosen not to send a delegation.

so, in that respect for the founding members of the hostages, the people in gaza, that could be seen as progress. there are two big sticking points, and they involved two core doors, one is the nazarene cora door, a road that runs east to west, effectively cutting the gaza strip in half. if israel maintains a presence on that road, it would mean the palestinians cannot move freely on their own territory. they will be screened and monitored. the other issue is the philadelphia. this is this buffer zone, the area between egypt and gaza. israel accuses hamas of using that area to smuggle in weapons and fighters, and it refuses to leave. hamas has said it will not agree to any deal that does not see the full withdrawal of israeli forces. it should be mentioned, as well, that egypt does not want israeli forces on its doorstep, as well.

>> talk about these threats of regional conflict. that is only adding to the urgency of this situation. how higher tensions in the region right now? >> it absolutely is adding a lot of urgency to the steel, to the negotiations, rather. i would say on the street level here in jerusalem, what people here in tel aviv would tell you, it is far different from what people in northern israel would say. it is very much business as usual here. in northern israel it is, of course, a different story since october 8th. it has been this near daily exchange of fire between israel and iran backed hezbollah. the strikes have been deadly, yes, but they have also been contained and very much calculated. yesterday 100 rockets fired towards israel. israel targeting six fighters from hezbollah. this as the chairman of the joint chiefs embarks on a surprise visit to the middle east, beginning his trip today to jordan. after that he will go to israel and egypt. and the goal is to deter an

attack by iran. this, of course, stems from the assassination of the former leader of hamas in tehran last month, with iran vowing to retaliate. we heard from the white house national security spokesperson, john kirby, on this issue yesterday. and the importance of reaching a deal to bring down the temperature. let's take a listen. >> what is critical is that everybody participate in these talks, and that the sides continue to work towards implementation. that everybody comes to these discussions with an eye towards actually closing out these and fermentation details and getting after it.

>> of course, as you know, all it takes is one miscalculation and things could escalate and spiral very quickly. >> you are 100% right on that. thank you very much. joined me now, california congressman sarah jacob. she is a member of the foreign affairs and armed services committee. always welcome to see you here. so, congresswoman, we have the latest gaza cease-fire proposal, which the biden administration has warned could be the last opportunity to end the fighting. yet again it has run into some difficulties. how realistic are expectations that these remaining issues will be resolved? >> yeah, look, i am incredibly hopeful that we will get to a deal. i know that everyone in the biden administration is working around the clock to try and iron out these final details. and, truthfully, i think it is imperative that we do get to a deal to save their manning hostages, bring them home, to get assistance into gaza and stop the fighting. and to help bring down tensions in the region, which we know is cease-fire deal in gaza is

really critical to. >> 100%. what about what happened this week? because democrats did not have a palestinian american speaker at the dnc, but in her speech,, harris spoke in full support of palestinian self-determination, her comments about the humanitarian catastrophe in gaza, they have been consistently more forceful than those of president biden. let's together take a listen to what some of what she said. >> what has happened in gaza over the past 10 months is devastating. so many innocent lives lost. desperate, hungry people fleeing for safety over and over again. the scale of suffering is heartbreaking. president biden and i are working to end this war, such that israel is secure, the hostages are released, the suffering in gaza in, and the

palestinian people can realize their right to dignity, security, freedom, and self- determination. >> so, appropriately, she tied herself to the biden administration of which he is a part. so, is a change in tone enough to convince voters who are upset with the administration's policy to support her? would harris, if elected, potentially take a harder stance around israel? >> look, i was in the room for her speech, and i will say this line about how she talked about palestinian self-determination really got the most applause of any part of her speech. and i've talked to many folks who are very happy with how she is engaging on this topic. because i really do think she is where most americans are. they want israel to be safe and secure. they understand the very real threats that israel is facing from iran, from hezbollah. but they also think that what is happening in gaza is horrible, and that we need to be doing more to get that to end.

and i think that the way she has framed it is actually where most americans are, and i am hopeful that we will see her be even more forthcoming on this, because she was the first person in the administration to publicly call for a cease-fire. she skipped the netten yahoo address. she has consistently been pushing on this issue. in a way that i think is really important. and i think it is really important that she highlighted that piece of palestinian self- determination. because the only real way we end this, the only real way we get to the next step is to actually get a palestinian state alongside an israeli state. that is the only real long-term safety and security ic for israel and the palestinian people. >> yeah, let me tell our viewers, this is something we've become very accustomed to seeing her on saturday afternoons, and that is a live demonstration in tel aviv. every week they have them. and the sentiments here, congress woman, also being expressed by those folks there. notably that first dead center placard, it says the deal is the only hope.

just wanted to bring you guys and what is happening right now as we speak in tel aviv. let me talk with you about ukraine. because the surprise offensive in western russia, it slowed down a bit. moscow has made recent gains in eastern ukraine, putting ukraine in the difficult position of defending one front while trying to push forward on another. does the biden administration have a clear understanding of ukraine's long-term goals for its russia operation, and are there concerns that its forces could be stretched too thin if the push into russia continues? >> yeah, it's a really good question. and it is often something that we get asked when it comes to ukraine. i think the important thing to note is that this is ukraine's war. they are the ones making the strategic decisions. they are the ones deciding how they are going to prosecute this war. we are helping to provide assistance and weapons, and our best military guidance. but, at the end of the day, this is their war and they're going to make a decision on how to prosecute it and they will

make the decision on how to end it. so, i've been really heartened to see the progress that has been made, i think it is a real testament to the fact that we've been able to pass the supplemental assistance in congress to get ukraine the support that they need. and i think the biden administration policy is exactly right, to make sure that we are providing our best military guidance to the ukrainians and helping them as much as we can to get to place. >> trump and vance, they continue attacking vice presidential nominee tim walz's military nominee. they are accusing him of abandoning his fellow soldiers by retiring the national guard in the months before being deployed to iraq. while filing the papers to run before his unit got the official deployment notice. will voters, will veterans be turned off by attacks on a man who served his country for 24 years? >> look, i represent san diego,

the country's largest military community. and i have to tell you, i, myself, am offended by this line of attack. because anyone who has served in the military will tell you, there are many, many different ways to serve and many of the veterans, in my community in san diego, they also didn't get deployed to combat. that does not make their service any less important or their sacrifice any less valuable. and so, to me, i think the fact that we are hearing this from donald trump, someone who used fake bone spurs or maybe real bone spurs, i don't know, to not get in the military, to me it just highlights even more that tim walz dedicated his life to service to our country, serving 24 years in the national guard. and that is something that should be thanked and honored, not something that should be denigrated. >> understood. congresswoman sarah jacobs, always good is your brain will have you back again soon. thanks. what we just learned about the two astronauts stranded at

the international space station. space station.

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breaking news. stuck in roughly eight day mission to an eight month stay, that is the new reality for boeing star liner astronauts suni williams anna butch wilmore, who we learned today will not be coming home now until february. with you to nbc's marissa partner. what did nasa say about when and how these astronauts will eventually come home? >> so, in this roughly hour and a half long press conference we learned a lot of details, and i will do my best to summarize that it within about a minute or so that we have here. in short, butch and sonny are now going to be coming down on boeings rival, spacex. that is the reason that now they are not slated to come home until eight months after this mission originally started, which is now february. and that is at the very soonest, of course, alex. there are a lot of things to change between now and september when we are looking at that spacex mission to

begin. this is crew nine, ace separate mission from the boeing star liner mission. now, with this announcement, they will leave two seats for them to hitch a ride back home to earth in february. there is a lot that goes into that, and of course, so many questions. so many people wonder about the safety. how are they doing? it is always important to remind people, when it comes to food and water, they are good on that. they get cargo missions, they get plenty of supplies. they are okay on clothes, they can also get the liberties of those things. there is, of course, the human toll. the impact that this has on the families. and of course, we talk about the boeing brand. nasa really wanted boeing to succeed with this, because they need an alternative to spacex to shuttle american astronauts from earth to the international space station and back. of course, they expressed that disappointment that this was the decision they arrived on, but they said it came down to safety, alex. and it was a unanimous decision by nasa. boeing was not even present today during this because they explained that boeing was part of the decision-making process,

but this was a nasa decision. and we heard from the head administrator of nasa, bill nelson himself, and i will kind of explain a conversation that i had briefly with him in just a moment. but here is what some of what we heard from that press conference on some of that we also know too well. this is not the first time we are talking about astronauts with extended stays in space. >> as you heard with the decision to leave them on board until february, they will be with us on station for eight months. i think most of you know our normal expedition durations are six-month long, we have had a number of flights with astronauts who have stayed on board with us for 12 months at a time. so, this eighth month stay is very much within our normal operational experience. while on board, they will be doing science, station maintenance, executing spacex 31 research and cargo missions, and we may have a couple of spacewalks for them towards the end of their expedition.

>> i will remind everyone, frank rubio is an american astronaut who holds the record for american ash rats for the longest stay in space. his was over a year, alex. again, not unprecedented, but of course, a massive disappointment for everyone who wanted to see boeings star liner bring these two astronauts home the way they arrived at the iss. and one thing that i will add, i asked administrator bill nelson himself, during this press conference, how confident he was whether or not boeings star liner would ever watch again with a crew on board. he told me he is 100% certain. so, of course, only time will tell on the timing of that, but he has full confidence in that, alex. >> well, that's great, but listen. safety first at all cost. understandable for the delay in all of it. melissa, thank you. democrats were smitten by what they solid the dnc, but what about independence and those raging moderates? key takeaways from the big party in chicago next. why take 10 antacids

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despite the joy and enthusiasm at the dnc this week, the harris campaign expects the next 2 1/2 months to be a bruising battle to defeat donald trump. so, what happens now? harris is presenting an after mystic vision of americans future to contrast donald trump's. >> america, we are not going back. we never gave up. because the future is always worth fighting for.

and that is the fight we are in right now, a fight for america's future. >> i see a nation that is ready to move forward. ready for the next step in the incredible journey that is america. >> joining me now is political playbook columnist eugene daniels, and washington post columnist philip bump. let me just say, we didn't play any of donald trump on the campaign trail because he is typically downer donald when we talk about america and where we stand. so, eugene, the cheering and sign waving delegates in chicago, they don't represent the swing voters that kamala harris needs to win in november. her speech highlighted her unlikely journey to being the presidential nominee, and her vision of a bright american future. was her speech a strong first step to broaden her appeal to independents and moderates who are not yet sold on her

campaign? >> yeah, there were a lot of things that she was trying to do in this speech, and at the top of the list was kind of defending the criticism and the attacks from donald trump and that she has some livable from san francisco. she didn't even mention semper cisco. she talked about oakland. and when she was talking, she didn't talk about democrats. she was very explicit in talking about all-americans, being a president for all americans. talking about, you know, she was accepting the nomination on behalf of everyone in the country. and i think for folks in the democratic party, they are already hyped. they are already excited. i was on the floor during her speech all that day on thursday, as folks are getting excited and ready for it. but i was, she was talking past that. and i think she is going to georgia this week on a bus tour, she did a bus tour in rural areas in pittsburgh, in pennsylvania, we can have a go.

so you're going to keep seeing them do these kinds of things because they know they can't just get democrats. she is trying to figure out a way to expand her base, and there is some opportunity because of how folks feel about donald trump. >> yeah. and in your latest piece, philip, you argued that kamala harris did what president biden couldn't do, making the case about the threat that trump poses. and here's what you write. harris feels like the challenger rather than a representative of incumbency. instead of treating trump like an equal force in the system, the democrats are now treating him more like a virus. can you explain that and why her message could land with undecided voters? >> yeah, i think it's important to remember, as everyone does, that donald trump is been on the ticket for three consecutive cycles. 2016, 2020, 2024. and i think he vita to use that overplayed term earlier this year between biden and trump, here we go again, it is a rehash of 2020. joe biden is making the same arguments he did then, but he is not as popular. and i think with the change to

harris, it is not only the fact that joe biden was seen as old for the campaign, also just that that argument was old. so harris is able to step out of it. she and walz immediately shifted to the these guys are weird approach. this is in us struggling as republicans, it is american struggling and it is a weird thing that has emerged. and i think that change is a very potent change. the extent to which moderate and independent voters hear it and react to it is a whole different question, but that's what i'm getting at. she was able to do this thing the biting couldn't. biden could not do that. he cannot say we are in a whole new era, a whole new campaign. it was literally the same campaign is 2020. harris is able to do that, the party is able to do that. and i think it has been proven to be quite effective. >> so, eugene, even though harris has caught trump in the polls, the top row harris super fax as their polling is much less rosy than the public surveys. and let's not forget how polls underestimated trump in both 2020 and 2016. how are democratic strategists approaching polling to avoid

any potential curveballs from the harris campaign? >> yeah, i think they're doing it or try to get a sense of what is happening at the time, they are doing it to see how voters and americans feel about issues that are animating them. but i think they are also kind of looking past it, right? a lot of what is happening selection is we have been thrown off course so many times, that for democratic strategists, it is about getting people out there. and i think it starts at the top. vice president harris has told her staff behind closed doors she has started saying it now, that they are the underdogs. and they want to run as the underdogs. i spoke with the campaign chair, jen o'malley dillon, at the dnc at this political grill they had going on. and she said the exact same thing. that complacency is a thing that scares them the most. i do not have it in the bag, that is a direct quote from her. and so they are using the polls

to kind of get a sense of things, but they are not leaning on them how democrats typically do with data. they get so excited about, and nerdy about the data. but there is so much of, when you talk to democrats about how polling, how you are able to pull black voters are not, whether you are able to get a sense of how young voters feel, because they don't answer phones. i have younger siblings, they don't answer phone calls. they are trying to figure out a way to do it around it and more portly, just one of the numbers as much as they can. >> so, philip, harris has the burden of being a sitting vice president will be held responsible for what happens in an administration that is led by joe biden. that she has presented herself as an agent of change, who is making we are not going back her signature phrase. is it challenging for her to be seen as a fresh face while trump attacks her, of the administration's handling of the economy and immigration? >> i mean, it certainly isn't as easy as it was for barack obama in 2008, who literally was a fresh face. a little bit of senate under his belt. it's much easier for her to do

that than donald trump. donald trump is literally someone who served as president. for all the complaints he has about about an administration, obviously harris is able to do some separation. not entirely, but some separation from joe biden as president. trump cannot make any separation from donald trump. donald trump was donald trump, he was the president. so he has that sort of incumbent style background that harris doesn't, and he is able to get some distance from emma whether that matters remains to be seen. this is in front of the mantra of the entire conversation. but yeah, i think she is going to be much better able to separate herself from biden than trump is going to be able to separate himself from trump. >> okay, eugene and philip, since he began, guys. thank you. it's like woodstock, but for democrats. no tie-dye t-shirt required. we are going to take you to if you have to cut, pack, drive, scout, weld, stack, feed, pull, load, demstock next.

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today in pennsylvania, hundreds are gathered for demstock. it is a play on woodstock, with crowds, speakers, and live music. but the event is geared towards rural pennsylvania democrats. a vital population vice president kamala harris must rally to win the swing state. the reality demstock's organizers are well aware of when they say the road to the white house runs the rural pennsylvania. joining us from the fairgrounds in brookfield, pennsylvania, msnbc campaign embed emma barnett. welcome, emma. let's talk on the message, the ones they are trying to stand with this event. the message to democrats, and perhaps outside of that group.

>> alex, the message to democrats here is simple. if you are a rural democrat in pennsylvania, you matter and you can be the person who literally makes the difference this election cycle. take a listen to what some voters told me. >> world democrats have to be scrappy, growing up in these red areas. rural democrats know that you've got to talk to every voter. >> it's all about the margins in the rural areas of pennsylvania. that is when pennsylvania goes blue. that is when democrats win pennsylvania. >> even if we don't live in the city, we are equal, and equally as important. even in a red county, it still matters. our votes still count. >> reporter: look, alex, while at woodstock we don't have singers like jimi hendrix, even though we have some great live music in the background, we did have the chairman of the pennsylvania democrats speaking just now, and he emphasized that the road to the white house leads the rural pennsylvania. and we see that reflected in the strategy the harris campaign is relaying here in the state.

because she has 36 different field offices in pennsylvania, and nine of them are in rural pennsylvania. she is not just focusing on philadelphia and pittsburgh, which are reliably blue. and some voters here at demstock, that says a lot. >> what about the harris walz ticket overall? how is it seen by the voters you have spoken with? >> voters are absolutely ecstatic. they feel electrified. i spoke to one voter name sybil peeples. she lives in rural pennsylvania. she has always been involved in politics. and she says her 18-year-old daughter has never really batted an eye, but once harris became the nominee she says her daughter ran downstairs and was talking to her mom about what she has seen about harris on tiktok. she says her friends are enthused . and while i was speaking to sybil, she got really emotional. take a listen. >> being a woman of color, to

see a woman rise to this level, and to see a woman of color in my lifetime, there is no words for it. that is all i can do. >> reporter: of course, we saw vice president harris formally accepted the nomination on thursday at the democratic national convention. and that obviously means a lot to a lot of different people here at demstock. alex? >> yeah, 100%. that was a good energy you conducted there. thank you, emma. so, a story that caught my eye and probably caught yours, too. older adults do not benefit from moderate drinking, large study finds. we are going to unpack this next. next.

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a programming note. at tonight msnbc presents encore coverage of the democratic national convention. revisit highlights from the week, including speeches from vice president kamala harris, governor tim walz, barack obama, and michelle obama. watch tonight at 9:00 eastern on msnbc. so, you may have noticed perspectives are changing on alcohol consumption. there is a new gallup pole out of this week that shows a new

high of 45% of americans say drinking one or two alcoholic beverages a day is bad for one's health. that is a 17% increase from when that poll was taken in 2018. just about as many adults, 43%, do not think moderate drinking makes any difference. but a new large study also released this week shows the first group may be onto something. i found older adults do not benefit from moderate drinking and even light drinking increased the risk of cancer. joining me now, the halter border on the story for the new york times, ronnie. welcome. how do we go from a glass of red wine every day is good for you to alcohol probably raises the risk of cancer from the first drop? >> well, it's a good question, and you are right. there is a paradigm shift. and it is interesting the people are actually hearing this, because for so many years, literally 100 years, we have been told that moderate drinking or light drinking, you know, heavy drinking is that for you.

no question. but light drinking was actually good for you, particularly good for your heart. and this how to do it the way studies were done, and they are trying to correct what they think are flaws in all of those studies that were done for so long. and that often involve funding from the alcohol industry. not always. it has to do with who you are comparing it to. but basically the gist of it, the bottom line is don't kid yourself. drinking, even lightly, is not going to help your health. it's not going to help your heart. it's not going to hurt your heart at low levels, but it may increase your risk of cancer slightly. and if you are someone who is concerned about cancer, especially cancers like breast cancer, this is affected by alcohol consumption. >> that is absolutely extraordinary. the headline alone. let's talk a little further about the flaws in the research that promoted healthy drinking, and what flaws might be overlooked in this new research that we are talking about. >> well, we never really know, when we do these big population

studies, what else are these people doing? and for a long time we even suspected that moderate drinkers were seeming to have a health benefit, because they were probably moderate in a lot of things they did in their life. they probably also exercised and were a little higher income, maybe, and this was a connection with wine that was always thought to be well, these are higher income people. and this study actually did find that for people who are in poor health and who are more socioeconomically vulnerable are at greatest risk from drinking, by the way. drinking wine and drinking only with meals did seem protective. the big flaw in the studies was that they always compare to drinkers at all levels to people who did not drink at all. abstainers. and some scientists started saying well, who are those abstainers? why are we comparing it to them? maybe there is something about abstainers that actually makes them unhealthy, so by comparison the light drinkers look healthy.

so, now they are comparing light drinkers to people who drink occasionally. which is maybe a drink or two a week as opposed to a drink or two every day. >> so, this study, can i point out that it was a british study. what an american study be different? do you know if there is one forthcoming? >> there are studies like this coming out all the time. this is not the first of its kind to find this. and the canadians, the canadian center on substance abuse has always put out a report saying there is even a small amount of alcohol can be bad for your health. at 1-2 drinks a week it is low risk, at 3-6 it increases cancer. 7+ a week also increases stroke and heart disease. these are levels that were always considered moderate and light, and kind of okay in the u.s. paradigm change. >> can i ask you, you mention it, is it common for researchers to have ties to the alcohol industry and studies on alcohol?

have you seen pushback from the industry when there are results that they may not like because of the bottom line? >> but the new thinking is that abstainers may be upstanding because they are already sick. maybe they were abusing alcohol formally. or maybe they have other chronic long-term issues and that is why they are abstaining. so it is not the right comparison group. >> as i wrap this up, quickly, as he did to the research and prior research out there, when you go to a nice restaurant, would you skip a glass of wine or have one? >> you know, everyone asked me that it the interview. i would have a glass of wine with a meal. but i probably wouldn't have two and i wouldn't do it every night. >> duly noted.