line i have to walk to do this kind of felon and prosecutor thing. because i have consistently fought so much for the criminally justice impacted and i did not want it to be a situation in which it seemed like i was putting those folks down. what i was trying to do was draw out the hypocrisy that the republicans consistently bring to the table when literally, you guys are supporting someone who supposedly doesn't stand with any of the values that you claim to espouse. >> that was a very thoughtful answer on that point. thank you very much, appreciate it. >> thank you. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now with ayman mohyeldin aim in for alex. or alex.

>> thank you. thank you. thank you. ladies and gentlemen, i'm sorry it's raining, but we've had 12 years of trickle down. if you'll give me 12 minutes, we can change this country. i am t tired of seeing the american people kill themselves every day at the factory, on the business, and the farm and be punished for it.t. and if you'll give us a chance, we'll turn this around. >> that was a soaking wet bill clinton during a drizzly campaign stop in 1992. campaigning that day in the small town of albany, georgia. and it was part of a multi-day bus tour through southern georgia, which the campaign called bubas for bill. southern georgia was northern to be more rural and conservative than the state's northern region which included atlanta and metro areas around it. and that swing through southern georgia actually helped bill clinton win the state by just

over half a percentage point, and that would end up being the last time a democratic presidential candidate won the state of georgia until 28 years later when, of course, joe biden took that very same state by just under a quarter of a percentage point.a that 1992 campaign -- today vice president kamala harris and tim walz made their own pilgrimage to buba country. they visited a small georgia high school, met with a marching band, stopped in at a local barbecue pit, all before holding a rally in savannah tomorrow. just a few months ago georgia appeared out of reach this cycle, but since kamala harris took her place at the top of the ticket, georgia has rapidly moved back into play for democrats. and the harrisd campaign is hoping that by boosting support from black and working class rural voters they can actually build a winning coalition to

take the state.ke so that is what the harris-walz campaign is doing to try to win the state of dpa. that's how they convince them to vote for them. now, contrast that with what republicans are trying to do to win the state of georgia. for weeks now the georgia republican party has been mired ipscandal over the actions of three election denying, pro-trump officials who sit on the state's election board. those three protrump officials are in the process of changing election rules, giving new power to officials to block the certification of election results over allegations of fraud. normally allegations of fraud are handled by the courts, where they should be. we saw this in 2020 when trump led efforts to challenge the election results were actually reswroupdingly shot down by federal and statedi judges acro

the court, all over the country. understand the georgia election board's new rules local protrump officials could delay or even refuse under the pretext of investigating voting irregularities, potentially throwing there entire election into chaos. a lawsuit supported by the harris campaign is already under way to try to block those new georgia election rules. a groupon of democratic georgia lawmakers are also urging the state's republican governor to open an ethics investigation into those protrump election board members. georgia's republican governor, brian kemp, is reportedly looking into whether or not he has the authority to open such an investigation. we're going toth speak to one o the lawmakers leading that effort in just a bit. for now as kamala harris and tim walz try to reach new voters in georgia, republicansvo appear t be trying to win the state by working the referees. of course the question now is what willof all of this mean co november? joining me now is erin hanes,

editor at large of the 19th. georgia a couple of weeks ago not something that would have been on the mind of democrats. it is front and center. there is a path to victory that runs through georgia. how significant is it that you have thisic two-day bus tour gog through southeast georgia just 68 days until the election? we're not talking about atlanta or the atlanta metro area. we're talking about rural southern georgia. >> yeah, listen you're a georgia native, i'm a georgia native. we know the risk is not getting outside of atlanta this year because that's where a lot of the voters she's going to need for this winning coalition are. there are 59 counties in georgia. and for democrats getting outside of atlanta is unusual just as for republicans going to atlanta is a thing unusual. it's usually republicans at play across the state.

she was at a high school, the savannah convention center, she went to go get barbecue, connecting with folks in that part of the state and talking about the o issues that matter them, not just affordability and opportunity but issues like rural health care, issues like the rural mortality rate, which we know in south carolina is an issue. issues of gun violence and paid family leave. this is a message that can resonate with a lot of conservative white women but rural blackva voters. people forget black people are also living in rural parts of the country, and they certainly live in rural georgia, and they vote especially in presidential elections. and so going down there and making a play for those voters may thought be something that is typical for democrats, but let me just remind people, this is the map that folks like stacey abrams built and other grassroots organizers. while that did work for stacey

abrams, it worked to elect two u.s. democratic scepters and they're betting that strategy might be something that works again in november. >> yeah, and it's such an important point you bring up and also reminds me how people view elections. everyone just thinks about it in terms of wins versus losses. you've got this strategy, this harris-walz campaign strategy attracting voters outside of metro atlanta. let me read for you what a georgia gop strategist said about it, and this was to politico. they said we seeth putting resources in heavily republican counties. some republicans are sort of confused. why are they wasting this money. they're not trying to win, they're trying to cut the margin. that's an important part of this. you can in some counties or even in the state reduce the margin by which donald trump may win or carry a county, you have a better shot in the other counties or districts where you

have larger margins. >>ar that's exactly it. i mean, look, forsyth county is not in play for many democrats. but, yes, cutting into those margins, getting some fewer number of folks to vote republican in that county, technically that is a win. we're talking about a state president biden won by just about 10,000 votes. this is about making in roads especially in some of these republican strong holds where people may be open to the kind of message that vice president harris and governor walz are communicating and taking that message to places like south georgia where people are also concerned about the economy, about democracy, about voting

rights and reproductive rights. you know, just because those people are not necessarily the kind of target rich areas that democrats have been used to, does not mean they cannot be part of a winning coalition for this campaign. >> let's talk about the messaging here because the harris-walz campaign, they've kind of pivoted their messaging, and now tlz all about joy. there's a sense of optimism, there's a sense of looking forward, but it also has focused on the struggles of working class people. what does vice president harris need to be talking about on the tour inal georgia, in these are, as her campaign interacts with voters in the state? >> yeah, i mean, again, this is part of m the state where peopl are still very concerned about the price of groceries, where they're concerned about the price of'r gas. this is a place where people were disproportionately dying during covid and also eager to get back to work. that was something governor kemp tapped into and able to really get bipartisan appeal for his --

his leadership because he was somebody who they felt like was responsive during thelt pandemi and so really a lot of these voters can be very open on -- and around the issues. like i said suburban conservative white women can be open on theve issue of reproductive freedom. vice president harris has been, you know, are pretty effective surrogate in termspr of talking about t abortion, voting rightss part of that broader message of freedom and what a healthy democracy looks like. so i think you'll probably see her continuing to hammer that message particularly in georgia, you know, whichar is very familiar, and is really remembering the way that the state was targeted after 2020 with the big lie even though we know that georgia had a safe and free and fair election that was verified, not once, not twice, but three times. you know, the idea that the message of freedom could be something that resonates in this part ofg the state and also th message of afford nlt, i think

is something that's going to be really important not just to south georgians but to those middle class americans that can also be hearing this message and seeing what she's doing down there. >> joy, freedom, affordability, a powerful trio of words there and message from the harris-walz campaign. appreciate you starting us off this evening. on the opposite side of it let's now talk about what republicans are trying to do in the state of georgia ahead of the presidential election. joining me now is the state senator who has filed an ethics complaint against the trump approved members of the state election board who has filed confusing -- thank you for being here. i'll start with your complaint because you allege members of the board have been illegally collaborating with the chair of the republican party on the proposed rules. last night rolling stone reported one of those members, janicee johnston was also gettg input from a member of gwinnett

county's election board. and also the fact that president trump at a campaign rally literally thanked the three of them for their work not too long ago, just a couple days ago. >> look, our election board, our state election board right now has been taken over by maga republicans, election deniers who areag trying to subvert our democracy bypassing new rules to obstruct the certification of election results. as you said, donald trump is calling out these election board members at his rallies saying that they're pitbulls for democracy. one of them is actually -- he was looking for a job with the trump administration. it's very clear here that these, you know, trump aligned election board members are trying to cause doubt and chaos in our election system if donald trump doesn't win georgia once again like he did it in 2020. >> of course the pressure is building, as we've noticed now the story is gaining more traction, but you've got the secretary of state brad

raffensperger releasing a statement that reads in part, activist seeking to impose last minute changes in election procedures outside of the legislative process, undermine voter confidence, and burden election workers. the former chair of the fulton county board of election has also filed an ethics complaint. georgia house democrats are asking the speakerho to replace his appointee to the board. andin of course as i mention, governor brian kemp says he's checking with the attorney general to see if he can replace those members. how r quickly do you expect a response? what is the likelihood that some of these even the republican officials will actually take up this issue and address it forcefully? because chaos is part of the objective of what they want to happen. >> absolutely, look. the secretaryy, of state even sd this election board is a mess. you have the attorney general who said that the meeting that they had on july 12th, which violated the open meetings act was illegal. they are doing everything that

they can to subvert our democracy, and so brian kemp 100% has the authority to convene a hearing to investigate these maga election board members. now, he's passing the buck to his a.g., but he has the authority to execute a hearing. and that being said in 2012 the georgia supreme court even said that when a governor has the authority to remove a board member from a board if it was created by a statute. and the state election board was created by georgia statute. so he can go ahead and do this now but he's decided to delay this, to pass the buck to the a. g. he's headlining fund raisers for trump. we just need to do the right thing, and, look, we should both be able to agree that anyone that runs for office in georgia should be able to win their election fair and square. >> are we seeing it anywhere else across -- how worried are

you about the rules being implemented in 159 counties there? >> i'm very kwuried. look, after donald trump didn't win ip2020, they lost their minds. they started passing local laws at thend state legislature to te bipartisan election boards that have historically been bipartisan and made them majority republican. it's been death by a thousand cuts. and these rules are a grand finale. it's like they're implementing confusion and mass chaos because republicans can't win on policy, they're trying to cheat once again. >> state senator, thank you for joining me tonight. greatly appreciate it as always. >> thank you for having me. we have a lot more for you on tonight's show including yet another state in the south that may be up for grabs by the harris-walz campaign, t plus a look at donald trump and j.d. vance's troubling embrace of rfk jr. that is coming up next. that is coming up next. ac jr that is coming up next [dog bark] ♪♪ [dog whining] is your dog telling you

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you might know rfk jr. with the story about him dumping a bear in central park or you know him because of the story of him dumping the head of a beached whale while driving home while, quote, whale juice streamed down the side of the mippy van. or maybe you know rfk jr. about the story about how he had a literal brain worm. however you know rfk jr. you should know that now not omis he on donald trump's presidential team but now running mate j.d. vance thinks there could be even more room for him in a trump administration. >> i think he has a lot to -- if we win, i mean he's got some very interesting ideas and good ideas. i think he'll be a fantastic and

influential person in terms of getting this country back on track. >> i hope rfk has a role because i think he's a smart guy, i think he's fundamentally a good guy, and i'm glad to have him on the team. >> yeah, that trump-vance ticket are already fighting allegations that they are weird. but is this the way to change that impression by bringing rfk into the mix? joining me now is tim miller, writer at large at the bulwark. tim, thank you so much for joining us tonight. so forgive the metaphor here, but what do you think of this trump-vance bear hugging rfk jr. like this? >> yeah, it's the whale that really gets me. i don't know. i just think about it the mini van and the juice. anyway, i don't get -- i get it, i guess, for short-term political purposes. i think a lot of the soft rfk support people, the so-called

double haters, kamala has been gobbling them up the last month so that explains the poll moving. so a lot of campaigners are conspeartle and you think getting the dorsement he can bring some of those folks onboard. i don't understand him going the next step of saying rfk is going to play the key role in the rfk administration and he told tucker i guess he's one of the leaders on transition team if he wins, which is pretty scary. that i think has the ability to really turn off a lot of voters. you were talking there with haines earlier, these swing voters he needs. you're traditional old school republican and you're looking at this group and it's vance that doesn't care about ukraine at all and it's weird rfk about the brain worm and vaccine conspiracies. and it's tulsi who's like

putin's number one fan in california. they're not offering anything to the voter. i do think that's a brand risk of being weird. >> let me ask you about tulsi for a moment because she is the wild card she added to this in a different way. maybe not the conspiratorial way but as you said really doubling down on this pro-russia messaging. both rfk and gabbard strangely enough endorsed bernie samders back in 2016, and after that election there was a lot of talk about the so-called sanders, trump voter, this kind of like working class white guy. voters who voted for bernie in the primary and then trump in the general election, does that voter even still exist in 2024? >> yeah, i mean a decent percentage of them were trump voters already. in 2016 we call them trump voters now. you're not gaining anything by getting people who have already voted for trump twice. there's some. you see them out there in the internet. they're very online, they've

posted on reddit. you know, there are a handful of these people, but there are way, way more. you know, romney voting republicans, millions that don't really like donald trump. there aren't clearly enough to take over the republican party. it's a huge minority in the republican party, but in a general election and the swing population there are so many of those than these weird, other side of the horseshoe, conspiratorial, anti- vax. i don't understand. trump is offering nothing to the haley voter. haley herself has gone along with it because of her own ambition which i think is morally repulsive. on the kamala ticket on progressive policy but on themes, the patriotism, standing with nato and a lot of foreign policy, i think that kamala was offering a lot more in her convention last week so that haley voter then, this gabbard,

rfk, trump, three headed monster. >> and you still have j.d. vance out of all people speaking of weird who's attached to this because i want fooplay you this recently unearthed clip of j.d. vance speaking to a christian group about education back in 2021. watch. >> so many of the leaders of the left -- and i hate to be so personal about this, but there are people without kids trying to brainwash the minds of our children, and that really disorients me and disturbs me. andy winegarten head of the most powerful teachers union in the country, she doesn't have a single child. if she wants to brainwash and destroy some of the mind of our children, she should have some of her own and leave ours the hell alone. >> we already know vance's childalize cat lady remarks did not go over well on the left, but it also strikes me, tim, criticizing childless teachers now might not go over too well on the right either because of

the role of catholic nuns or just because the absurdity you can only be a good teacher if you have children. how does the right view j.d. vance's comments like this? do they like him or do they think this is going to get weirder and weirder every time he speaks? >> look, i know nun teachers. i think there are catholic voters on the right that go what is this guy talking about? he's also obsessed with this. there's going to be a big gender gap but there's still women republicans. eventually they start looking at this like why is he obsessed with whether women have children or not and women's wombs? he's constantly talking about this in all his pod casts. and it seems it's a personal vendetta he has with women who chose not to or unable to have children. it doesn't gain you anything plit cloe, and yes, it is weird to be obsessed with this and talk about it in that manner.

>> it's going to be interesting how he defends himself if there is a debate between him and tim walz on this issue. tim miller, always great to see you. thank you so much. appreciate your time as always. still ahead tonight as concerns grow over donald trump's efforts to undermine confidence in the elections before it even happens, democrats are finding now ways to fight back. but first, can kamala harris flip north carolina like barack obama did back in 2008? i'm going to get to michael blake of win with black men about that, and the black voter turnout that could make it all happen. that's next. that's next. ake all happen that's next. dangerous ladders. gutter muck. yuck. no wonder you hate cleaning your gutters. good thing there's leaffilter. our patented filter technology keeps leaves and debris out of your gutters forever. guaranteed. call 833- leaffilter to get started. and get the permanent gutter solution that ends clogs for good. they took the time to answer all of our questions. they really put us at ease. end clogged gutters for good. call 833.leaf.filter,

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i'll tell you this, if kamala harris wins north carolina, she is the next president of the united states. >> do you really think that state's in play? your home state is in play? >> absolutely. >> explain to me why. >> i have that 2008 feeling. >> the last time a democratic presidential candidate won north carolina was in 2008 when barack obama narrowly defeated john mccain. now with democrats leading the ticket they believe they have a chance to lead north carolina again, and they might be onto something. right now presidential polling averages show a tight race with kamala harris and donald trump in a statistical tight heat. this week shifted the north carolina presidential race to lean republican to toss up. in 2008 obama relied heavily on

strong, black turnout in rural counties to win north carolina. but with trump's recent gains in these areas, a question arises, can kamala harris create her own, 2008 moment? joining me now is michael blake, ceo and founder of atlas strategy group, and the co-host of tonight's win with black men, a call which began two hours ago. michael, it's great to see you. thank you so much for making time. i know you're following the yankees game, but let me get your thoughts. how did that call go? what were some of the key take-aways from it and the momentum that continues to build around it? >> excited and appreciate what you continue to do on the air. it's about sending a message on the march that we are showing brothers are going to support the vice president and mobilize in that regard. we were able to have incredible leadersch the lieutenant governor of michigan, garland gilcrist who remind people early voting is effectively 40 days out of the election, talking about pennsylvania where we

didn't win the state until that saturday. having the mobilization of steven horseford became the cdc national campaign cochair. the framing was we're not going to sit on the side lines in the same way years ago if i can, you can, that was what we were communicating, but continuing on the clear trajectory that brothers are ready to support the vice president to become president. >> yeah, i want to ask you about the march on washington and the pin you're wearing, the historic pen. talking about black men, they're not monolithic, but what are the issues you think black men in this country coalesce around that may be part of other groups but they want the harris campaign to commit. >> job creation has to continually be a part of it. i led the african american outreach and we sustained that effort here, and so people want to hear what are we doing in that regard. and so when we hear from the

black economic alliance around work, wages, and wealth, that continuity has to be clear around to it brothers and addressing what happens to cost of living. cornell belcher talks about that all the time. thereafter it's around justice and the framing that happens. we have to be addressing what's happening around justice and making sure we get the george floyd act passed and implemented and creating those opportunities. but it's also about making sure brothers are part of what's going on in the game. that's why we created the project. brothers want to make sure we are part of what's happening here, and so sustaining that is not just about the policies, it's about the person. too often we're being told we're not going to support someone because someone else is saying that. it's for our voices to be mobilized and why we've been so engaged in the election and mobilizing efforts such as a collective, such as black men, what's happening tonight across the country. >> let me ask you from governor

roy cooper of north carolina saying he had a feeling similar to what happened in 2008 with barack obama carrying north carolina. obviously president biden carried georgia as well. these states are now firmly in play for the vice president and tim walz. what is different about this moment than in 2008? i mean they're both history making candidates, but are the issues the same? or is there something different that's at play that makes this moment unique? >> it definitely was different. some of the energy i was with governor cooper and the a.g. back in the day and hit up-bow jangles. >> here are some things different this time around. when you have a black woman part of the sorority as vice president it's going to create a different energy on the ground and mobilization on the ground. when you have the opportunity the counter, the nonsense of mark robinson that all skin folk are kinfolk, we're going to be clear about communicating that message every single day. when you have the opportunity

about home comings, those are different dynamic that can shift here in a very momentous way, but tying it all together, when you have the mobilization that is happening now, where people are saying we have to be engaged now as well as the voter protections effort, we recognize, yes, there was history made in 2008, but there's been history made in 2024 because we see that as a soror we can get into the white house and kamala harris. >> i was talking about a little history with the march on washington. let me ask you about that pin you're wearing 61 years to the day of what that happened. >> grateful for my dear friend ken cooper who gave me this pen and equally one of the original cograms and understanding the magnitude of the moment. when you have -- who organized this march effectively in two months. when you have dr. dorothy who said dr. king has to give the full speech, the connection of

it all is making it very clear. as they did before, they had demands. they had policy demands. and too often when we talk about marches, people try to separate it out. that's why we're excited about project freedom and other causes like our own, but it's about laying out the connection. it's not just about marching for marching's sake. >> it wasn't just a speech. >> it was about policy. they were very clear, and it was a march on washington for jobs and freedom. and i do think the connection of it all talking about freedom, talking about joy is what people are looking for and are excited about right now. it's giving everyone an opportunity to say we want to be be a part of something bigger. and we see that right now in the march and the mobilization. we say we go from our cronos to our cirose. >> michael, thank you so much for your time. best of luck to you. take care. quick break, afterwards we have much more to get to tonight including how democrats are preparing to fight any potential

challenges donald trump might make to the election results. going to talk to former obama campaign manager about that and more, next. xt

(psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. (psst psst) flonase. all good. i know there are things that you are not in favor of, this ballot harvesting, this mail-in ballots. >> it's all terrible. it shouldn't be allowed. it's a whole different mind set.

>> but it is. >> any time you have a mail-in ballot, there's going to be massive fraud. >> donald trump is already trying to undermine the results of the upcoming presidential election. he is laying the groundwork to potentially challenge the outcome, and democrats are preparing to fight back. former obama campaign manager jim museena will chair the newly launched democracy defenders pac. the group has already attracted some well-known talent like attorney norm eisen, biden-harris campaign staffer and a close ally and former gubernatorial candidate, stacey abrams. joining me now jim masina. jim, it's great to have you on the show again. so let's talk about hypotheticals here.

what sort of challenges do you expect trump to bring after election day, and do you expect him at least to try and effect the races up and down the ballot as well? >> eamon, absolutely. to your point he's out thereunder mining democracy, talking about how normal ways like mail-in voting are wrong, his people are trying to pack the georgia state elections. even his campaign manager said at the republican national convention it wouldn't be over on election day, it would only be over on inauguration day, which shows you what they're going to do. they're going to fight this thing tooth and nail, and i believe president trump when he says he wants to be a dictator on day one. i believe him when he says he wants to stop some of these ways that people vote all across the country. and we just decided enough is enough. we're not going to take it anymore. >> jim, you said in a statement

that we're going to be stepping up and providing resources directly to state parties and allies on the ground to make sure every american can cast their vote with confidence and without interference. tell me more about how you will be directly helping officials fight these challenges. we started this program tonight talking about what is taking place and the chaos election board members there are trying to sow already. but how do you challenge that, when you see this taking place on such a local grass roots level? >> yeah, it's a great question. we're going to put $10 million immediately into the field and grants into state parties and allied organizations that, to your point are actually on the ground fighting these every day. we're going to help with messaging to talk about why these things are bad, make sure everyone's talking out of the same hymn sheet here. and third we're going to make sure everyone understands the resources that are out there, how they can fight some of this

stuff, how we can go to court and get emergency stays, how we can really deal with some of these things. we need to be really fast, and the way you be fast is move money to organizations on the ground, and so that's what we're going to do. >> are you prepared for the democracy defenders pac to be actively involved in legal battles up to potentially not just election day but as you mentioned all the way up to inauguration day? we're old enough to remember what happened four years ago on january 6th. there's no reason to believe that if they lose this time it will not be a repeat perhaps on a larger and worse scale even on state level. >> oh, you're exactly right. part of what democracy defenders and, by the way, i love the name of this new thing. it makes be feel like i'm going to be a super hero. avengers, exactly. we're going to give $10 million to local and state organizations. we're going to absolutely be the tip of the spear on lawsuits all the way up to inauguration day

for anyone who's trying to push back and sow discord on the democracy. and then, three, after inaugural day we're going to continue to talk about why it's so important to do these things, why it's so important to have free and fair elections. you and i grew up in a world where we thought that was pretty much assumed. apparently we're not in that world anymore, and so we're going to continue to talk to people about why things like mail-in balloting, early voting are so important to preserve our democracy. >> let's talk about how you get people involved right now. obviously you have an initial budget of $10 million. how much are you hoping to raise to be able to fight back against these election challenges? i think last time we were talking about maybe 60 different cases across the country. this time even more if donald trump loses. how are you trying to get ordinary folks involved in this effort? >> yeah, it's going to take all of us, right? it's going to take an absolute

village as hillary clinton said to fight this stuff. it's not just money, it's also education the work you're doing talking about these things, covering things like what happened in georgia. not a lot of people are covering this stuff, so we're going to be out there talking about these things as well and highlighting stories from the ground up. i think part of this is just building a grass roots movement of people who understand what's happening and can talk about and push back on it. so money's great, but really has to be at the grass roots. and so we're going to work really closely with state parties and state organizations to make sure we can do that, ayman. >> jim, congratulating you on assembling the avengers and fighting to defend our democracy. we definitely need it going into the election. greatly appreciate your time and insights this evening. thank you. >> thanks for having me. >> we'll be right back. thanks . >> we'll be right back

the moment i met him i knew he was my soulmate. "soulmates." soulmate! [giggles] why do you need me? [laughs sarcastically] but then we switched to t-mobile 5g home internet. and now his attention is spent elsewhere. but i'm thinking of her the whole time. that's so much worse. why is that thing in bed with you?

this is where it gets the best signal from the cell tower! i've tried everywhere else in the house! there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title. overnight, the israeli military launched deadly air strikes and raids across several areas in the occupied west bank killing at least ten people,

according to palestinian health authorities. since the start of the war in gaza over ten months ago, israel has conducted daily raids in the occupied west bank. however, this current ongoing military operation may very well be the largest in more than 20 years. today israel's foreign minister said this is a war in every sense, as he compared the situation in the west bank to what is happening in gaza, where over 40,000 people have been killed. the west bank raids come as tensions continue to rise throughout the region. last weekend israel and lebanese group hezbollah exchanged the heaviest cross border attacks since october 7th. and iran has vowed to act after vowing vengeance last month for the assassination of the hamas political leader ismail haniyeh. it's good to have you on this show. sad that it is against these reasons, but the west bank raids come two weeks after the united

states approved an additional $20 billion in arms sales to israel. what do you make of this military operation and escalation that we're seeing now in the occupied west bank? >> ayman, i think just for context, which i think is really important, it's important to remember that israel's occupation of the west bank is illegal under international law. israel does not even belong in the west bank at all, and yet for decades now, they've been on this project of expansion and land takeover and ethnically cleansing palestinians and pushing them into smaller and smaller areas of the west bank. this has been going on for a very long time. and i think at this point israel saw an opportunity given the attention of the entire world being focused on gaza to escalate further in the west bank. you know, when you talk about the west bank, we've seen more than 650 palestinians have been killed since october to this day. under normal circumstances this would be a massive crisis that would grab the entire world's

attention. but it is only in the shadow of far greater hor ors and more than 40,000 palestinians being killed in gaza has this flown under the radar and israel has gotten away with it. and naturally this creating some resistance as this kind of violence always done, and now israel is increasing its military operations, operating under the false premise that they've been deluded with for a very, very long time, that you can somehow pummel palestinians into submission, you can kill a little more and torture and imprison and besiege, but this is really a recipe for further and further iviolence, as histhas shown us we need to recognize palestinian rights. that is the recipe to a better future. >> what is the likelihood it might actually as you suggest inflame tensions in the west bank eror ricochet throughout the region if israel feels so

emboldened, what is to stop them from doing worse in the west bank? >> because israel has seen there's been absolutely no material consequences, certainly their image in the international community has taken a very significant hit given the scale of the atrocities they've committed. but as long as they have u.s. backing in terms of military funding i think they're happy to proceed to take as much lands as they possibly can and behave the way they are. and whether in the west bank and an up rising could break out, whether the potential for a regional war with lebanon and iran as long as we're on this path i think is also increasing day by day. the obvious solution to lof this is in the immediate presence and that would instantly diffuse regional tensions especially with lebanon and iran, and from there we can start working towards much more -- to start dealing with the fundamental problem that has led us to this

point in the first place and that is a recipe pat is going to lead to endless violence as it would over and over again. people talk about it as if it's a slogan, no justice, no peace, but i think it's a description of basic human nature that in any situation in which there is long lasting injustice that peace can't follow, that this is going to lead to cop flict. and people who are interested in resolving conflicts have to look at those underlying causes and work towards justice and equality and human rights for all. that actually how we move the ball in a better direction than the path we're currently on. >> cease-fire negotiations to end the war obviously ongoing. it's really unclear if there even is an agreement that is possible at this point. the bombings continue in gaza. disease is now rampant in gaza. less than two weeks ago a 10-month-old baby was confirmed to have polio, the first known case inside the strip in almost 25 years.

first, do you think a cease-fire deal as it stands is possible? what do you think it'll actually take to end this war? >> yeah, the obvious impediment to a cease-fire is the the fact netanyahu is not interested in ending this war. this has been clear over and over again even though hamas has been recalcitrant through this process they ultimately agree to a temporary cease-fire, and netanyahu has found every reason possible to say no to that particular deal. and the reason behind that is to say what is allowing netanyahu to behave the way he currently is? the reason why he's continuing this war is for purely personal reasons. he's worried about his legacy and political career if he allows this war to end without any resolution. and the question is how many more children have to be killed before the u.s. starts to say enough is enough and in this case using the obvious leverage to get netanyahu to respect

human rights and looking out for what american policy preference stated are is to pull that military funding or threaten it in a meaningful way. one thing i want to say real quick is that if american politicians saw daily video briefings of the suffering of the people in gaza and the children being killed day in and day out, they would put an end to this onslaught immediately. but the problem is we operate in an environment in which palestinians are -- their lives are considered secondary, and we put israeli lives as somehow being more valuable. and when you operate in that dynamic, you're obviously emboldened a situation where a conflict continues. >> i appreciate your time and insights this evening. that's our show for tonight. you can catch me back here weekends at 7:00 p.m. eastern. "way too early" with jonathan lemire coming up next. the 2024 race is heating up. we'll go over the new strategy on display from the harris-walz ticket. that during a series of camig