they're not making that case. that is not -- and if you go to the wrong place to deliver an economic message, that doesn't work either. she's got a lot to say, and i'm really -- i think she should have done this without anybody sitting next to her. it's difficult to do follow-up questions when you have somebody else there. maybe they'reso wading into the water. look, we're 69 days away and people have a right to know exactly, precisely, what she's going to do. >> yep. we've got to leave it there. johnve kasic, donna edwards, thk you both. and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." remember to follow the show on social media @mitchell reports and follow me on x at ryanobles. i'll be back tomorrow. chris jansing reports starts right now. good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc

headquarters in new york city.t surging in the sun belt. just hours before she's set to rally in savannah new polling shows kamala harris gaining in georgia and other battleground states. prompting trump to attack the place that was once his political home. fox news. and trump and vance go scorched earth on harris testing voters' patience for nasty misogynistic attacks in the name of political campaigning. is it part of their new plan to, quote, divide and conquer their democratic opponent? plus the storm is gone but the scars remain. nearly 20 years after hurricane katrina devastated new orleans, new efforts to heal residents' emotional and psychological trauma taking root in the unlikeliest of places. more on that coming up. a very busy thursday, but we start in a place you might not expect, fox news, with a new poll that shows kamala harris surging in h sunbelt states andy

extension expanding her options for victory ing november. the fox polling has harris pulling ahead of donald trump in the critical battleground of arizona, nevada and georgia, where she wraps up her bus tour this afternoon. in the words of one of fox's pollsters, quote, when biden was at the top of thell ticket the only pathway to an electoral college victory for the democrat wasy a sweep of the blue wall states of michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania. that's no longer the case with thee sunbelt states in play. now all four states are toss ups. neath candidate has a lead outside the margin of error. these are big gains for harris since june when president biden trailed in that same poll by five points or more in every single one of those states. nbc's gabe gutierrez is following the harris campaign from the white house. matthew t dowd was chief strategist for george w. bush's 2004e campaign and is senior msnbc political analyst, and adam jefferson worked for the democratic senators harry reid

and johncr fetterman and also a democratic strategist. great to see all of you. so, matt, trump is not happy about these new numbers. his campaign calling the polling atrocious. what does it do for the harris campaign to have states like arizona and nevada and georgia, even north carolina, in play now? >> well, first thing i would notice is any time donald trump is attacking the polls, then you know he's in trouble. that's thes clear signal, ever time he does that he's in trouble, because every other time he hawks the polls and says here's how great i am and now he's attacking the polls including fox news, which is kind of amazing. any time you can have a larger map to compete in on electoral states, on swing states, the better for you. i would add the only state that wason added from 2020 to this yr was a red state, north carolina, that has been trending toward purple. we have seven states that are in place in theve course of this

election cycle, and my guess is, and i would -- we'll see what happens in the next couple s weeks, especially with the debate coming ekup, what is mor likely to happen, is of those seven states, that the harris-walz campaign is more likely to put away some of those other states, maybe in the midwest, before donald trump can recapture some of the southern or southwestern states that he has and that puts him in tremendous difficulty. >> gabe, these polls do seem to justify harris' decision to kick off her post--dnc tour in dn georgia. where do the sun dealt states fit into the overall strategy going forward? >> well, chris, kamala harris and tim walz had been looking at the sun belt states for weeks. this new polling seems to be reinforce that decision to really expand the map, as you just heard matthew talking about. this is a dramatic shift, chris, from when president biden was the nominee just a few short weeks ago.

kamala harris now up one point in arizona, two points in nevada, but as you mentioned, of course, this is in the margin of error. however this is highly, highly competitive, and we also see donald trump, according to this poll, lose something -- losing some support in the sunbelt including some evangelical christians. his support among black voters is going upnb as well. kamala harris is also getting more enthusiastic support from black voters and that is leading to some of the success they are having in the recent poll. margin of error, the harris campaign is not taking anything for granted, they tell me, that's why they're in georgia, but again, there were several states before that were wishful atthinking, at one poin chris, including north carolina when president biden was now the nominee. now all of those states are firmly in play, chris. >> so, i want to read to you something, another republican

pollster, darren shaw,ub had to say about the results of this poll. i'm quotinge here, harris' campaign has accomplished something that seemed impossible threeg weeks ago. she is seen as the change candidate, despite being the incumbent vice president, at a time when there is considerable anxiety about the state of the country and the administration's ratings are dismal. for the moment, they have remade what was a re-election campaign for biden into a referendum on trump. i thought one of the most interesting parts of this poll, more democrats as a percentage now support harris than republicans support trump, not by a lot, but that is a big change. so if this is a referendum on trump, does harris win? >> yes, i think she does. i think one of the things you saw when the matchup with former president trump was president biden, was a lot of voters who people classified as what's called doubless haters. they were dissatisfied with both candidates and they were

basically screaming out for a differentou matchup. and there was a sense that which ever side listened to those voters first could reap significant gains. which ever side offered up a different candidate could reap gains. i think that's what you're seeing. donald trumpat is not only a former president, but he's one of the most well-known people in america, and franklye in the world,nk so, you know, he is ki of stale. people know what they're going to get with him. they're kind of tired of his schtick. i don't think he's doing his schtick as well as he used to. it's gotten old, and harris has brought with her an incredible excitement of forward-looking vision, a strong contrast on the economy, and i think that's been a really powerful -- had a really powerful impact on the race so far and that's what you're seeing in that's poll numbers. >> take us behind the scenes of what you imagine the conversations are like in, matt, the trump campaign headquarters. obviously, now looks like they're going to have to spend more money, more time in places they might have thought they shored up, right?

>> yeah. i mean, take you inside the trump campaign or inside the mind of donald trump is one flew over the cuckoo's nest. i don't know how much logic we can apply but my guess is there's been broken ketchup bottles in the course of some of this. i think donald trump functions well when everything is in order and he's doing fine and dominating and to a degree like he was before president biden dropped out.de he hadt everything going well. the campaign wasth functioning well. he was raising money. the polls were all in one direction. now he's in total disarray because, largely for what adam just said, is the democrats and president biden, give it to him, they were the first ones to listen to a huge part of the voters who didn't want this choice. once that happened, donald trump had no idea how to function in a campaign that wasn't joe biden. we can see that in the last four weeks. he keeps bringing up joe biden as if he brings up joe biden he will re-emerge and he will be

running against joe biden again. he has not figured out how to run against the vice president in o this. that's difficult. i would add one other thing in this, to most voters' minds, he is the incumbent because he's so ever present, a former president and he's the oldest, longest candidate in this field, he feels to most voters like the incumbent and that gives a great advantage to the harris campaign and whye donald trump doesn't know whatdo to do at this point >> so adam, you and i were at the dnc talking to folks, leadership in battleground states, one of the things they kept talking to me about was the impact they were seeing on down ballot races. i want to give you three examples from this poll. three maga conservatives, carrie lake, arizona senate race, sam brown in nevada's senate race and n mark robinson in north carolina's race, are all losing to their democratic opponents by double digits. do you think they're bad candidates? the democrats are particularly good candidates? is there at least an element of, that trump and the maga movement

are becoming a liability for these folks? >> i mean i think it's all of the above. it's a rerun of what we saw in 2022 when republicans fielded incredibly poor candidates across a range of highly competitive senate races. i think it's happening so often that this isn't a fluke. this is a structural issue withinal the republican party tt is downstream of the maga movement andtr trump's leadersh. they simply cannot find reasonable, moderate candidates to win primaries. you can't win a primary in a republicanin -- a republican primary if you're not loyal to the maga movement. the case of what succeeds in primaries does not s succeed in general elections. you have a structural situation within the gop where they keep spitting outre these incredibly right wing candidates in highly competitive races where they should be competitive but they're not. democrats are running away with

it. these numbers will tighten, they always do, but i think democrats headinghi into labor day sort o the crucial point of the campaign, are t in a very stron position in all of these senate races you mentioned. >> gentlemen, looks like we've got news on the debate we've been waiting for and comes via brian fallon from the harris campaign. looks like they're going to keep pretty much the same rules they had in the r first trump-biden debate and this is what brian fallon writes. our latest understanding even though trump said monday he would be fine with an unmuted mic his handlers don't trust him toon spar live with vp harris a asking abc to ignore trump's comments and goes on to say we find the trump team stands to be -- but at least according to this posting it will be muted mooix if it's the same as we saw before, no audience. i'll start with you, what do you think that means for this debate with a very different opponent for donald trump? >> well, going back to what

we've discussed, even with whatever rules donald trump is for or is not for, i mean who knows in the course of this, i find it amazing his staff is basically publicly saying we're tryingpu to protect donald trum from himself, basically what his staff is saying in these debate negotiations, i think right nowo donald trump basically says he's going to beat the vice president noea matter what in the course this, i thinkth most people expt the vice president to do extremely well. i think one of the things that donald trump has never faced is a candidate that both is very good and vigorous at prosecuting a case, while simultaneously doing it in a humorous or joyful or enthusiastic way. he's never faced somebody like that. he's gotten down in the gutter andth meanness going back and forth. somebody that can prosecute a case while still staying joyful in this, is unusual and unknown to donald trump. >> another part of that that i think is going to be interesting in this debate and there was an

article written today by someone who had actually done a pretty extensive interview with kamala harris and one of the things they said -- they were actually talking about the interview that's going to happen tonight -- but they said she looks you in the eye. she will stare you down essentially. she is the prosecutor. she has that sort of stance that she's a serious person, right. i wonder -- i mean obviously they're both going to bei faci the moderators, not the audience, doesn't sound like there's going to be an audience, but it would be interesting to see if she looks at donald trump. she challenges donald trump directly looking him in the eye and how he will react to that. >> that's right. and these are the kind of moments, you know, when doing debate preparation you think long and hard about and try to pick yourou moments, your issue but it is notable that she did have ahe moment like this durin the primary debates in the 2020 presidential primaries. she had a moment like that where

sheme turned to president biden and she was talking about her experience having to ride busses to segregated schools and said, you know, that little girl is me. this was a moment that went viral anden was effective i thought. she can pull it ctoff, and i thk that's something that they are probablyet considering. either way what matt said is important, even as she does prosecute the case, she always has a sense of being a happy warrior. i think that makes her extremely effective in these situations, whatever tactic she chooses to deploy. >>oo matthew, you're going to stick around. thank you, guys, appreciate it. both parties are betting that swing voters from the southern part of the state will win that state in november. i'll speak with two democratic officials from georgia about what their constituents are saying later in the show. but first, in 90 seconds, even more new polls are swinging kamala harris' way. are republicans feeling the pressure with jd vance going after the vice president for

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divide and conquer, that's jd vance describing to nbc news the trump campaign strategy. the divide part is pretty typical campaign stuff covering more ground today with donald trump delivering remarks in michigan this afternoon and then in wisconsin, a town hall, and jd vance stopping in boston and florida.

but the conquer part seams to have both candidates in almost non-stop attack mode defending his boss against criticism he tried to politicize a visit to arlington national cemetery marking the third anniversary of americans killed during the withdrawal from afghanistan. >> to have those 13 americans laz their lives and not fire a single person is disgraceful. kamala harris is disgraceful. we're going to talk about a story out of 13 brave innocent americans that lost their lives it's that kamala harris is so asleep at the wheel she won't do an investigation into what happened and wants to yell at donald trump because she showed up. she can -- she can go to hell. >> well here's the thing. he's attacking her for comments she did not make. as trump's main super pac stepped up spending on attack ads. as harris gains momentum is it going to be enough to slow her down? nbc's garrett haake is reporting from washington, d.c., matthew

dowd back with us. garrett, how does divide and conquer work while the trump campaign seems to be largely on defense right now? >> yeah. chris, clearly not well. i think the trump campaign strategy here is to try to kind of fight off all of these various story lines as they keep coming up, and try to increase the pressure on kamala harris around some of the pivot points that still remain in this election, specifically the interview that's going to happen today, where they've been raising the stakes for her to sit down and do it, although arguably also lowering the bar for her performance, while they've gone through it, and the debate that's coming up in about two weeks now, which i think will be a huge moment in this campaign, larger than normal in part because i think we've seen the bounce of the trump campaign understood would be there for harris out of her convention, but nothing else seams to be changing in the direction of her numbers in their favor. this effort by donald trump and jd vance to kind of be everywhere all the time, can hold the status quo, but i think they need a pivot point in this race. those are the two best next

opportunities to create. >> so vance just addressed the firefighters' union convention in boston and walz spoke to that same group yesterday. one of two major unions i should point out has yet to endorse in the presidential race. talk about the difference both in their message and in the reception? >> the politics of organized labor have been interesting in this race, what we saw in this race and the last race was many cases union leadership backing democrats, and union members in some cases voting for trump. it's always been an area where he's been stronger than traditional republicans have been. here in the case of this dueling appearances at this firefighters' union convention we saw tim walz give directly pro-labor address yesterday. now both he and vance included elements of their own personal story, their own personal experiences with firefighters, with emts, tried to humanize their messages, but i think it was very clear that the walz approach yesterday was more effective in the room that the

jd vance approach today. don't take my word for it. listen to some of both men over the last few days. >> president trump and i are proud to be the most pro-worker republican ticket in history and i want to talk about why we're fighting for working people, why we're going to fight for unions and nonunion alike. >> but i can promise you this, when vice president harris and i win this election, we'll have your back just like you've had ours this entire time. >> reporter: so two things can be true at once here, chris. donald trump can have a better relationship with union member voters around the country than many previous republican candidates, but you can also regularly say things that drive a wedge between their support. like when he cheered on elon musk in that interview on x. i think that's some of what is coming back to bite jd vance. he has to make a pitch to a

crowd that seems to be leaning one direction despite what their official endorsement has been so far. >> matthew, never a great thing when you're a candidate and you go into a room and you get boos. i don't know if it was about him saying that they're the most pro-worker republican ticket in his history. i don't know if it was about fighting for unions and nonunions alike. but what do you make of that reception and, as i've been watching this campaign and awkwardness here and there, is part of this about the advanced teams? is it the team on the ground setting this stuff up? does this just happen? >> well, a couple things. great questions, chris. a couple of things in this. one, it's not always a bad thing to get booed. if you're booed in front of an audience that is disliked or not helpful in a general election that actually can help you. so if jd vance went in front of a bunch of crazy -- i'm going to say this crazy sort of maga folks and got booed because he

was taking a more moderate stance, that would actually help the trump ticket. if he was booed in that way and appealed to swing voters. being booed by firefighters is the same thing as being booed by teachers. it's never a good thing in this. i think the problem with jd vance and we've seen this from the day donald trump nominated him, that he seems very tone deaf and have an inability to really connect with any kind of audience in any way, whether it's an audience like this, a larger audience, or a speech, a convention speech, or just a one-on-one at a store. he seems to have a great inability to have some real connection with people that people find genuine and authentic and will relate to. that's not an advanced person problem. that's an advanced person's nightmare. you don't know what to do with that person in the course of this. i think that's the difficulty. the other thing about jd vance, jd vance is the most unpopular vp nominee in history. more unpopular than sarah palin was at the end of the campaign who became a huge albatross for

john mccain in 2008. he is far more unpopular than sarah palin was at this same point in time in the campaign. >> going into an ice cream shop ought to be a gimme. trump's super maga campaign spent more than $22 million attacking harris. do you think attack mode can work or is it allowing harris to continue to draw a contrast with joy? >> well, a couple of things. i mean, i think negative ads or contrast ads work but only in conjunction with what you're doing in a large presence in free media. you can have great ads on the air that do a job, but if your -- what you're doing in the press and what you're saying to the media is disconnected from that, the ads don't work. that's the problem for trump and jd vance is what they're saying is not what they're trying to

say in their controlled political ad environment. they're becoming very personal and all this. i actually think holding the powder, what the harris campaign seems to have done and allow the bouts and the movement to come to her, now we're going to come to labor day with less than 70 days out and they've held on to a large amount of money that my dpes is their discipline will be incredible. what they do in the free media and press and voters, combined with what they do on the air will be in sync and that is a very difficult thing to overcome. going to what garrett said, the only real opportunity to overcome that are the debates. >> 68 days until the election. i know this not because i have great memory but because we put it on my cheat sheet every day. matthew dowd, thank you so much. have a good labor day weekend. up next, the massive israeli military operation and the most wanted terrorist they just killed. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. reports" only on msnbc

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in jerusalem. israel's foreign put it buntly, this is a war in every sense and we must win it. what does this mean, particularly for people who live in the west bank? >> for people who live in the west bank as you mentioned, they fear that this could become an extension of the war in gaza. they hear the word evacuation, they hear the words ethnic cleansing, forced displacement. you mentioned this local commander who was killed today, mohammed jaber his name, he was a local islamic jihad commander, he along with four gunmen killeding in what the idf says was a significant exchange of fire. the idf also releasing drone video showing what it says was the inside of a mosque in a town or the camp of tulkarem. it claims it found tools that were used to make weapons and explosives. why now? well, it says that this was in

reaction to an attempted suicide bombing in tel aviv last week and the bomber was from a city called nabalis in the west bank, but that the attack itself was coordinated or the network that planned, coordinated the attack, was from tulkarem, this exact camp that is being sealed off by the idf. israel says this is about iran trying to create a new front in the war, about smuggling in weapons, but for those on the ground, they will tell you this is not about supporting another country. this is about resisting the israeli occupation. one of the senior hamas officials on the political side said today or said yesterday, rather, in turkey, he called on palestinians and their supporters to resume suicide bombings in the occupied west bank. of course here suicide bombings, people will remember, the violence of the years of the second intifada.

the u.n., the secretary general, urging deescalation and warning this is fueling an already explosive situation. >> danielle, thank you so much. and today, israeli families with loved ones still being held by hamas in gaza are seen in a gut-wrenching new video. the hostage families forum described this heartbreaking moment showing a group of men and women holding pictures of their loved ones, quote, running toward the gaza border in a desperate attempt to get as close as possible to their relatives. the raw emotion captured in one man's voice when he said "we're going to bring them back if the government doesn't bring them back, we will." international health warnings are in effect today as that stifling dangerous heat wave ramps up. in iran the southern region is experiencing historic dangerous heat indexes that have at times registered above 150 degrees

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if you're looking for an unambiguous sign that kamala harris has upended not just this presidential race but modern democratic strategy look no further than where she will be for her next campaign event, savannah, georgia. the atlanta jurnl constitution suggests the wing to the white house goes through savannah. the vice president on a southern swing that includes barbecue and fight songs or flannel, football, and pheasants. it's also where later this hour she'll tape her first sit down

interview since she became the nominee. two officials with unique insights into what's happening on the ground there. tamika miller is the democratic party chairman of louden county, which includes valdosta, outside kamala harris event tonight and len is leading an initiative to attract rural voters to the democratic party. tamika, you're traveling with your delta sigma theta sorority sister over three hours to go to the harris-walz rally. talk about why and why you think it's significant she's in that part of your state? we're having issues with the shot. understanding that there's a huge rainstorm there, so we'll try to get her back up. len, let me go to you. you told our producer that every week you have coffee with other democrats to talk strategy and that all of you understand how difficult it is for democrats to

win over rural voters. so what makes you think it's possible and how are you going to do it? >> well, chris, thanks for having me on. i think it's possible because not only democratic voters, but republican voters in the state of georgia, are kind of rallying around the vice president because she's got a plan out there, and, you know, people are galvanizing towards that plan. the other side is basically just pupgts out the same rhetoric they've put out since 2016, the border, the crime, things like that, where the vice president is putting out concrete plans of what to do with the economy, what to do with child care, issues like that, and that's resonating not only with georgians in the large cities, but more importantly in the rural counties. people are starting to realize, especially in georgia, that you

need the rural county voters to come out and vote. the county i live in is about 30, 32% democrat. the rest are republican. i'm running for office here and getting a lot of republican support myself, and it's just -- they want to hear a good message. that's what it comes down to. the good message. that's the message that the vice president is offering to the people here in georgia. >> anybody who works on the ground, len, knows it can be hard when you're in an area that is so lopsided, you have so many more republicans than democrats, but the polling that shows that there's a real shot in georgia, the polling that suggests this could be critical to whether she wins or loses, do you think that there are democrats in your county who have stayed home in the past, who now will come out? >> definitely. and the big area is going to be

the female vote. we're seeing a great response. i'm also the chair -- was the chair, i just stepped down because i'm running for office -- of the bullet county democratic committee, and the last meeting that i attended, the attendance was almost two and a half times of what it normally is down here, you know, in a small rural county that we have. >> so he mentions women, ta me a ka, good to have you back, they have been in hyper drive since kamala harris became the nominee, and i know you traveled there with your delta sigma theta sorority sisters, took you more than three hours to get there for the rally, why was it important f t there and what do you think is the significance of her going to this part of your state? >> thank you, guys, for having me and yes, i'm a proud member of delta sigma theta, however, i do not speak on behalf of the sorority. it is a great day to be a south

georgian. as you can see it is raining on the outside, but we have so much enthusiasm, even here in savannah, we know that being in this area, vice president harris and governor walz are feeling the love and the enthusiasm is electrifying. sorority [ inaudible ] we are all joining together, voter enthusiasm, voter engagement, voter registration, we are making sure that all people are being granted the right to vote and are exercising that right to vote, mobilizing and being energized in the process. >> so tell me about what you're doing on the ground and tell me what you think your challenges are to make sure the people who want to vote can get out and vote? >> what we're doing on the ground, we're actually holding a

lot of voter registration drives. also, we're going into the communities, knocking on doors, making sure first and foremost the residents are registered to vote. if not we're registering them to vote. also with the voter suppression laws that are going on in the state of georgia right now, we are also checking voter registration status to make sure that you have not been purged from the file. >> well, you both have your work cut out for you, but you sound enthusiastic about it. tamika and len, thank you both very much. love to check in with you in a month or so and see how things are going. appreciate your time. >> any time. >> that would be great. that would be great. >> appreciate you. coming up, 19 years after hurricane katrina, a look at how jails have become the biggest mental health providers in new

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now, hsa/fsa eligible. the stress parents are feeling these days has become untenable. we're seeing it in an american psychological association study that shows 48% of parents in this country say most days their stress is completely overwhelming. and we're hearing it from the surgeon general who issued a formal advisory and told my colleagues on "morning joe" that the time to act is now. >> right now, there are millions of parents who are struggling in their shadows and we need to pull back the curtain on what they're going through and suppo. we need to pursue measures like paid leave so parents can be with a sick child, for example. we need affordable child care, we need consistent, accessible mental health care for kids and

adults. we've got to address the harms of social media, address issues like gun violence which contribute to the stress and strain. >> calling on congress to put safety standards in place to help reverse this crisis. told, exactly 19 years of hurricane katrina, new orleans is seeing an unexpected impact of the devastating storm that's persisted long after the water receded. that storm destroyed the facility's mental health facilities. they were never rebuilt. now, overcrowded jails have become's new orleans' biggest mental health providers. one of the jails in orleans parish is trying an experimental approach. antonia hylton traveled to get a look at what it's like inside. what did you find? >> i found that the city of new orleans is in the midst of a mental health crisis. and the storm and its continuing

impacts has exacerbated it. now the jail is at the front lines trying to fight this crisis out the resources it really needs. take a look. up on the fourth floor of one of the most notorious jails in the nation, 50 men are living in an experimental community. they clean together, cut each other's hair, and play games. nbc news received special access to the justice center in new orleans where a new model pod for mental health aims to treat pretrial inmates more like patients. this is what many afternoons look like now. men seated together, talking about conflict resolution, past trauma, and healing. >> be free and talk about it. >> led by lieutenant michael lewis. >> it's humbling because usually in the prison setting, it's an aggressive setting. >> for years, the orleans parish jail has been known for violence, and a ten-year federal consent decree monitoring human rights abuses.

experts say it has one other title, the largest mental health provider for all of new orleans. hurricane katrina flooded the city's charity mental health ward and it never reopened. following a pattern across the u.s., large mental institutions and psychiatric wards shuttered. but our country did little to replace them. >> what's the community been like for you? >> it's open minded. like, when i first came, a little intimidation. >> marvel smith is just 18. when he first arrived at the jail, he says, he was harassed by another resident on the pod for being gay. >> that type of behavior cannot and will not be tolerated. >> all of them have lost family to gun violence in the city. many of their relatives were separated by katrina, a trauma that occurs decades later. >> pod member, leonard pody has

been in pretrial detention for five years. he says he didn't realize until joining this group that it wasn't normal to live every day expecting to die. >> really? >> i was cool with that. like, if i had ran to the police and they killed me, i would have been happy. >> sheriff susan hudson ran for office in 2022, promising to fight plans for further jail expansion. according to her office, more than half of the 1,400 people in jail here have diagnosed mental disorders. why did mental health matter to you? >> my baby brother. he ran away to the navy when he was a teenager. he came back ptsd. the intervention that we did, i had to call the sheriff's office. >> as hudson tried to reform, louisiana republican lawmakers gained a super majority, pushing through crime and punishment laws, including sending 17-year-olds to adult jails like

this one. since the spring, the already crowded new orleans jail population has increased 3 to 5% every month according to the department. nbc news requested interviews with state senator heather cloud and representative raymond cruz, who spearheaded the new legislation the sheriff alleges impacted the jail. they did not respond. sheriff hudson and lieutenant lewis say they will keep swimming upstream, reforming one unit at a time. >> if we, human beings, can make up our mind, and treat other people like human beings, that would make a difference. >> wow. >> and you know, chris, i think often americans think of jails and prisons as being very far removed, an experience that they may cannot relate to. the reality is this is a crisis that touches a lot more americans than you may think. nami, a research and advocacy organization that supports people living with mental illness estimates 40% of people

with mental illness will at some point be sent to a jail. so this is something that is really, according to experts now, a crisis. people don't have enough hospitals. they don't have enough clinics. this has become the front line, and it is the primary health care provider, mental health care provider in new orleans, new york, all over chicago, all over the country. >> it will be interesting to see if it prevents recidivism, which in the long run means it is a good investment. thank you very much, good to see you. and important reporting. still ahead, donald trump on the trail in michigan and wisconsin today. his controversial new remarks targeting vice president kamala harris. we'll explain that. stay close, more "chris jansing reports" right after this. chris repos"rt right after this.

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