point of israeli politics that you hear over and over forces the only thing they understand. the idea that the people in this conflict with can be, there will be a point where they are beaten into submission. >> peter your point about 1982, the tactical goal was to shake the plo out of lebanon and they succeeded. they definitely did that. they went to tunisia and hezbollah came up and everything that proceeded from the. thank you both so much. that's all in on this tuesday night. you doing, buddy? >> i'mg, alive, man. i made it. >> i did, too. >> still standing. >> we did your podcast and now we vanish from the world and we're back. >> we're back. 63e' days. >> thanks as always.

okay. as of today this song can no longer be donald trump's outro music. ♪♪ on, i'm coming ♪ >> today a federal judge in georgia ordered trump to stop playing that trump "hold on i'm coming" by isaac hayes because isaac hayes estate said it did not approve of its use or give theov trump campaign permissiono play it. it would be one thing if it was an isolated thing but it is not. he'st switched back his outro

ymca, which the village people themselves publicly objected to trump using. they have also threatened legal action against donald trump. in fact, isaac hayes and the village people are just two of the dozens and artists and artistrt estates that have objected to donald trump using their music. and that list includes abba, adele, aerosmith, a-ha, the beatles, beyonce, leonard cohen, lincoln mark, ozzy osborn, prince, queen, rihana, twisted sister, and the white stripes. trump being ordered to stop using one song from one artist. it's the firstm time the matal has been settled in actual court.

now, if you were worried about the music desert that trump seemsha to be relegated to, you can restte assured because evenf trump were to be legally barred from playing the music of every single popular artist in the world there will always be the music of his daughter-in-law and the cochair of the republican party, laura trump ♪ without your bravery we're a lot alike ♪ >> that is right. despite the fact she is currently the cochair of the republican national committee, the rnc, laura trump is still actively pursuing a music career in the middle of an historically significant presidential election. what i just splayed there was a snippet of ms. trump's newly

released single and music video entitled "hero," which appears to be a tribute to firefighters. ♪ and the flames get higher you're my hero ♪ ♪ you're my hero you're climbing up the ladder ♪ ♪ and the screams get louder you're my hero ♪ ♪ you're my hero ♪♪ >> it should be said that laura trump'sha music career is not exactly taking off right now, but she said still on tour, just not as a singer. as cochair of the rnc laura trump is heading up the party's quote-unquote protect the vote tour. >> we're going to put together the largest, most aggressive, and most comprehensive election integrity operation in the history of american politics. we have been all across this country.

we've been inos michigan, pennsylvania, north carolina, georgia, arizona, nevada, wisconsin. it is integral to who we are as americans that we trust our electoral process, and that is where you guys come in. weys have to have people every time a vote is cast and every time a vote is counted in the room watching. you're going to learn here today everything you needed to know, thingsno you ever knew about ho to be a poll watcher, how to work in the tabulation center. >> i can't tell you exactly what happens in those trainings trump and the rnc is holding across theol country because the rnc i notus allowing the press to observe those trainings. but what i can tell you as of a month ago the rnc claim to have recruited 157,000 volunteers through this effort. that is tens of thousands of people whoou believe the lie th theie 2020 election was stolen d who have now signed up to monitor the 2024 election.

what could go wrong? that is where the rnc's priorities are at this moment. the cochair of the party is touring it country to recruit conspiracy theorists to monitor the polls and maybe also convince those same people to buy here new single. at the same time, today the harris campaign kicked off its own tour. it is a tour filled with harris allies called the fighting for reproductive freedom bus tour. and to really underscore the stark contrast between where the harris campaign and the trump campaign stand on the issue of abortion, this bus tour kicked off in palm beach, florida. and that is where just days ago palm beach florida resident donald trump saidlo that he wil vote against florida's amendment 4, an f amendment that would repeal the state's 6-week abortion ban and enshrine abortion rights into the state's constitution. >> are you voting yes or no on amendment 4 ins florida? >> so i think six weeks, you

needwe more time than six weeks. i disagreed with that right from thed early primaries. at the same time the democrats are radical because nine months is just a ridiculous situation where you can do an abortion in the ninthab month. and, you know, some of the states like minnesota and other states have it where you can actually execute the baby after birth. and all of that stuff is unacceptable. so i'll be voting no for that reason. >> that isl a lie. nowhere in the country can you legally execute a baby after birth, but those are the kinds of lies trump and republicans are pushing as they move to restrict reproductive rights across the country. and thisac reproductive freedom bus tour is all about calling out those lies and telling voters where donald trump and kamala harris really stand on the issue of abortion. >> it is not lost on us that we are just 10 miles from mar-a-lago, home of one donald

j. trump. he calls it the winter white house. i call it his retirement home. he is the one -- he is the one who got us into this mess. he has the one clearly stated -- clearly on video just last year that he was proudly the one responsible for overturning roe v. wade. andr florida, you are going to hold him to y it. >> joining me now is democrat and senator amy klobuchar from minnesota who today helped kick off the harris campaign's national bus tour of course focused on reproductive rights. we're also joined by former senator from missouri, msnbc politicalis analyst, claire mccaskill. what a treat to have both of you here and weigh in on a lot of things. >> afraid to be on with claire.

>> w we want more of it, and it hasn't even started. you're fresh off this bus tour. >> t yes. >> kicked it off as we know in palm beach,s florida. can you talk a little bit about the response you got and what the mood was like down there in a place the l trump campaign wa calling trump country sph. >> highly energized. this amendment 4 has galvanized the people of florida. just like you saw in ohio, kansas, 13 points people have turned p out not just democrats republicans, independents and said, no, women need to make their own decision about health care, not politicians. this could change the whole trajectory of the race down in florida. there's a key senate race with the democratic candidate. we've got a number of congressional races down there, and of course kamala harris' race. it was a blastrr to be down the actually with anna navarro and otherar leaders from florida, a i think it was brilliant to

start it rightit there in his backyard to make the point that he is the one that exhibit "a" -- claire was a prosecutor. she gets this.e he was the one who said he wanted to overturn it and put justices on.ic exhibit "b," put the justices on, exhibit "c" he's responsible for doing it, so we rest our case. >> claire, i want to talk about the stagecraft. there's a lot of reasons for it to be in palm beach. it's alsoin a critical moment f trump as he goes back and forth on what his position is exactly on abortion. i mean i still marvel at the fact we are 63 days from the election and trumps seems to he no idea what to even say on the issue that could very well be the deciding factor in this election. >> yeah, and i'm sure my dearest buddy amy will agree with me on this. there are issues where candidates evolvees over time.

things change, the facts change, context changes, and you have an explanation for why you may take a slightly different or significantly different position than youfe might have five year ago, ten yearsfi ago, 15 years ago. but this issue, voters are very suspicious of someone who tries to change their position on this issue. because this is about a fundamental freedom. this is about -- very rarely is it just about a political win. and it's very clear that's what trump is doing now. he is trying to save his position in lies, saying everybody wanted roe v. wade overturned or executing babies, and/or it's okay for states to decide even in a state like mine. >> i think we're having some connectivity issues there with

you, senator mccaskill. get back up to you when it's back up and running. >> this is my dream, just fill in what she was going to say. >> she did say the executing babies thing, which is repeated ad nauseam byte the republicans. do you run into voters they think this is something republicans are guarding against? >> when donald trump puts this information out there, there are people that believe it. and there are innocent people that believe it and it's just notus true. that's murder. i think the bigger point claire was also making is 1 pout of 3 women now, when you look at what's going on here live in states that have extreme bans. in florida it's 6 week. a i lot of women don't even kno they're pregnant by 6 weeks. >> and donald trump said on thursday the 6um weeks is too early. the incoherence is staggering.

it's also his running mate, every day, if it's tuesday there must be a strange j.d. vance position on a main stream cultural issue. now we'reea finding out he wrot sort of ae forward to a book tt effectively saysth abortion shod become unthinkable in the united states. it would like to ban ivf as a procedure for those seeking to have families. and j.d. vance has a somewhat incoherent position on ivf and even abortion. >> well, for me i just look at his vote on the senate floor. i was there. i voted, too. and he had an opportunity that two republicans seized, susan collins, and lisa murkowski, to make it very clear they stood with ivf and we need to protect ivf given the outcomes of the dobbs decision and what was happening in alabama. he voted the other way.he he did not vote to protect ivf. so you not only have project 2025 and everything in it with banning mifepristone as tim walz

said the convention, when someone gives you a play book, yous better look at it because that's whatat they're going to use. and the fact this has continued and you can go back in time and see other statements he's made, but i just keep h looking at th vote. i know what that vote meant. >> right, you have them on record doing these things. claire, we began this segment talking about the number -- the overwhelming number of musical artists that want nothing to do with donald trump who said you can't play my music there, and that's not just unfortunate for the trump campaign but also evidence of a campaign so querly outside of mainstream culture, right? most people want nothing to do with this person. there is some section of the republican party that very much does, but on whole they have moved -- they have painted themselves into the far, far corner of not just american politics but american culture writ large, and reproductive freedom and bodily autonomy are but a signpost of that. >> oyeah, but, alex, he's got d rock. i mean, you know, how can you

not win with kid rock, for gosh sakes? listen, he's got a huge chunk of his a country that is buying wh he's selling, and we need to pay attention to wethat, and we nee to understand that grievance is a real thing in the united states rightal now, and that's what trump is marketing. he's marketing grievance, negativity. our country is horrible, our country sucks, we are a dead country. and unfortunately, there are way too many people that are in that place where they see that negativity and they say, yeah, he gets me. but i will tell you a majority of thisu country wants to belie tomorrow willnt be better and wants someone who has a more joyous, positive outlook on everything that makes our country just extraordinary. so i do think he's not only got losing musicians on his campaign, which there are only a couple, and i think it's a stretch to call some of them

musicians. he also has a message, i think, is not going to move those voters that decide presidential elections. those votersci that amy knows wl in minnesota and certainly the only way i could ever get elected in missouri. that is those voters that don't vote by party, that are more independent and make up their mind based on their lives at the moment and how the candidates present themselves. >> i mentioned anna navarro, the republican. you hadna republicans that spok out at the convention, former trump employees. and what you'reor seeing right now, jimmy mccain right now coming out, john mccain's youngest son who served in the military. you have independents and republicans coming out and that is partially why you're seeing this surge in the swing state. >> do you think this election is going to be divided along gender lines? you look at the polling and trump is doing so badly among women. you look at what's happening on sort of the central issue of

bodilyra autonomy and reproducte freedom that affects in large part women although men have a stake in this, do you see a massive divide in november? >> there's always been some divide, but i'm not sure that's going to be what's determining it. i'm looking at what claire had just talked about, which is these independent voters and moderatend republicans and wher they are they don't want to go back to the dark days. they don't want to go back to the insurrection. they don't want to go back to these assaults on our democracies and our o freedom.an and i think you see a lot of democrats reaching outright now to republicans and independents who are not comfortable and never want to be associated with donald trump. >> we're going to be talking about that with sarah longwell in the bulwark in the next block, so thank you for tuning that up. are you selling any albums on your bus tour? >> no, we're not. we're actually just selling joy, optimism, and getting stuff done. >> and maybe a little bit of freedom, too. senator klobuchar, i wish you luck onuc the bus tour.

former senator claire mccaskill, please come back again and again with amy klobuchar or without, we love having you both on this program. thanks for your time tonight. coming up, trump now says he has had every right to interfere in the 2020 election as he now pleads not guilty to the january 6th criminal indictment. but first a new multi-million dollar ad campaign is targeting trump voters. the people who might be persuaded to vote for kamala harris and the woman behind those efforts joins me coming up next. s me coming up ne

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oo this is a good book title. i'm a two-time trump voter. >> in 2024 i cannot support donald trump. >> trump is 100%. >> responsible for january 6th. >> his treatment of women. >> is just disgusting. >> trump called servicemen suckers and losers. >> if trump has a second term it will be much worse than the

first. >> kamala harris is a prosecutor. >> he's a convicted felon. >> in 2024. >> i will be proudly voting for kamala harris. >> starting today that -- that message will be broadcast to voters in pennsylvania and michigan and wisconsin and arizona and nebraska. there are also these billboards, which will blanket those key states as part of an $11.5 million ad blitz. joining me now is the founder and executive director of republican voters against trump as well as the publisher of the bulwark, sarah longwell. sarah, it is great to see you. i am so eager to hear more about the project, and really specifically because you know better than most people who exactly is the sort of target audience here. is this the vestige of the nikki haley coalition? can you give me, like, a profile of the kind of voter you guys are going for?

yeah, so on one level it is the vestige of the nikki haley voter. the fact is some of those voters were already biden voters. last team some of them were going to go home to trump, and then there's kind of that group that prior to joe biden dropping out we were calling the double hatersch and these people they really do hate donald trump, but they thought joe biden was too old. and the thing about these voters is they're kind of right leaning independents and soft gop voters. they don't identify as democrats, and that's the tough part. that's where you've got to build a permission structure for people like this who just do not see the dems as their natural tribe to say you know what? i am so tired of donald trump. i am so over the lies about the election, january 6th was a red line for me, abortion is now a primary issue for me. any sort of combination of those things can drive that voter to say this time i'm out on trump.

but one of the things he did with this campaign he specifically went and found hundreds and hundreds of people who had voted for trump, everybody who was part of our campaign voted for trump at least once. many of them have done it twice, and i think it's important for people to understand that these voters, there are a lot of people who kind of held their nose and voted for donald trump for whatever reason, but they weren't wild about him. and january 6th was really the thing that pushed them over the edge. and the fact that the republican party decided that they're going to go again with donald trump. there's just a lot of these voters that say this is too much, and then once you gave them somebody sort of new like kamala harris, they basically were like you know what? i'm in. i'm in for the optimism, i'm done with the doom and gloom and they were ready to come out and be advocates. and those people can create the best kind of permission structure for other people who are on the fence, who are kind of looking for a reason to vote

against donald trump. they're not that comfortable voting for democrats, but when they see people frm their own tribe, who people made the same decisions they have in the past, who voted for donald trump and say you know what, i can do it for harris, i can go ahead and vote for her, that's the kind of thing that helps people go ahead and make that move. >> can we talk about the strategy behind the campaign itself? pittsburgh, harrisburg, philadelphia, madison in wisconsin as well as phoenix and omaha for nebraska's second congressional district. and my lord, do we hope this election does not come down to that one electoral vote. you said these are folks who don't feel like they're part of the democratic tribe, but when i think about all those metropolitan areas, i sort of think of them as democratic strong holds. are these people reluctantly hanging out in blue areas of these swing states? >> no, this is a great question

actually. so in most of these, these are the what are called dmas. right, these are the places where you advertise, and that's what -- how do i explain this to you? yes, it's the name of the cities, but where we are concentrated in our advertising is really in those suburban areas that bring those cities because that is where these persuadable voters are. you're talking about bucks county, pennsylvania, cumberland county. but in order to reach those voters you often have to go into the dma that is the biggest city in that area. and so our focus is not to hit those blue voters that are concentrated in the metropolitan areas but really in the rings around there. and we're doing what's called a surround sound campaign, and so not only are we up on television, but we're very narrowly targeted with digital, with something called ctv, on your hulu and other places you

stream or radio, so we're really trying to hit people with a lot of different voices but all of whom sort of these college educated suburban voters who have been the persuadable voters who have made up the margins in the last couple key elections. >> i got to ask because, you know, chris hayes was talking about this and rightly so in the last hour, and i've been thinking about this and nate silver has been thinking about this a lot, pennsylvania. pennsylvania has 19 electoral college votes. it's a big deal. everybody wants to win it, and by everybody i mean kamala harris and donald trump. how much work do you think needs to be done in that state on the part of democrats? i notice you're going up with these billboards in three cities in pennsylvania. >> yeah, pennsylvania really is the tipping point state. i was originally kind of a big advocate for choosing governor josh shapiro as the vp candidate because i thought in such a

utilitarian way it is so important to lock up pennsylvania. you know, i don't think tim walz was a bad choice. i just -- there's just nothing more important than pennsylvania, and i think you can see in terms of trump's spending and in terms of harris' spending that's what everybody's battling over, and it is a state that has a lot of these urban areas that then do have these suburban rings around them. and a lot of those suburban rings are the kinds of places that have moved from red to blue over the last decade, that donald trump has been on the scene. like that is where the voters are moving. they are politically realigning out of the republican party and are becoming more willing to vote for democrats. these are people where previously they would vote for john mccain and mitt romney, but donald trump has been pushing them out of the party. but it also has a lot of these rural areas, which is where i grew up in central pennsylvania, where donald trump dominates with voters.

and this is where it is so important i think you've got to get tim walz to these rural areas. you've got to have him talk directly to voters, but pennsylvania is the ball game. we're going to spend a ton of money there but so is everybody else. >> yeah, to say the least. sarah longwell, a wegt of information. founders of republican voters against trump, publisher of the bulwark and its must listen to podcasts. thanks for listening, sarah. coming up while donald trump contemn plates pulling elon musk, the country of brazil is shutting elon musk and his far right free-for-all. but first trump has officially filed a not guilty plea in his january 6th interference case while also saying he had every right to engage in election interference. david rhodes joins me to discuss the weaponization of the justice system and what we can discuss

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it's so crazy that my poll numbers go up. whoever heard you get indicted for interfering with a presidential election, where you have every right to do it. you get indicted and your poll numbers go up. when people get indicted, your poll numbers go down. >> today donald trump announced he will plead not guilty to his latest criminal indictment for

election interference, and he will do so at a hearing before a d.c. trial judge later this week. as david rhodes writes in his new book "where tyranny begins" in the 1970s americans agreed actions like the watergate break in were improper. no such american consensus appears to exist today. rhodes writes this increasing polarized electorate has made things much more difficult for officials at the doj and fbi tasked with investigating or prosecuting the former president. joining me now is two-time pulitzer prizewinner david rohde. david, congratulations on publication day. a very timely book in this moment. what stuns me about the book is not just the political polarization that's having trump's hoped for effect which is stymieing the investigation and prosecution of future crimes

but also the degree to which the department of justice has been deeply and it sounds like profoundly affected by trump's machinations. can you talk a little bit about what the mood is inside the doj right now? >> so the focus of the book was certainly the average career, prosecutors who work at the doj and agents who work at the fbi and morale is low. they feel like they're stuck in the middle. they feel like the justice department and fbi are being asked to resolve the country's political differences. we were talking before i think there was an assumption among liberal critics of trump if he was indicted and brought to trial, he would be convicted and discredited politically, and that would be the end of it. and it turns out the legal system isn't the easiest way to resolve our political differences. >> by design. >> yes. so a former president it turns out can delay, and it's very difficult. we can talk more about it. you have a recent supreme court decision, so it's complicate on immunity. so i would say if there is a second trump term, there will

probably be less civil servants who will fight him. many did. there's many heroic stories in this book, and i think he will be emboldened by the supreme court to be even more political how he uses these departments. >> what is interesting about the extraordinarily slow pace of these investigations and indictments is that maybe it's not a sbriez. i think people were primed as you say to believe this could happen expeditiously especially after the house january 6th committee showed the american public all this evidence, but it hasn't happened quickly, right, and not just at the supreme court. there's a delay at the department of justice bringing these charges. do you think merrick garland understood this was going to take a long time? >> i think he did. and it's part of almost the two realities we live in now there's a sort of trump support universe and trump opposed university. so merrick garland truly believes in the post watergate justice department.

nixon used it and john mitchell, his attorney general to go after his enemies. in the last 50 years there's been this pride in it being independent. an attorney general carries out the broad policies of a democratic elected president, there's a mandate for voters for that. but when it comes to individual cases the president stays out of that. trump defied that, defiled that and paid very little political cost. and what was interesting is it seemed to help him in the primaries as you just talked about. so there was a view somehow charging him would be a political silver bullet, and it wasn't. and it's -- >> well, it hasn't. do you think there is any regret on the part of the a.g. about the timeline upon which this has unfolded? and if you can't speak to that, what now inside the doj? you mention the morale is low but there seem to be camps, protrump and anti-trump, which is not something we think of when we think of the justice department. >> one of the beginning sections

of the book is about this pivotal meeting that begins with the search at mar-a-lago. officials they think if they do it it's going to play to as one guy said trump's m. o. there's another camp of doj officials and other more senior fbi officials like we have to do this, we've had all these chances, and it got to the point where one of the group was looking at the other group's like political donations. so this hyper-partisanship. >> extends inside. >> is seeping inside law enforcement investigations. and i just want to emphasize i didn't find anyone who was wildly prorepublican or pro-democrat. they take they are duty really seriously. they try to be nonpartisan. we need nonpartisan public servants, election folks who count votes fairly, we need journalists nonpartisan and presenting facts. and the problem now is that the

public is just more and more cynical about it, constant attacks. recent polls say about 75% of voters have lift to no confidence about the justice department, and 85% of republicans. again, there are heroes in this book. there's people trying to do the right thing. you know, and we face a sort of monumental test as this election approaches. >> yeah, and you painted a picture of what might happen if trump is re-elected, but honestly if the white house stays in democratic hands and these trials go forward, that will be a stress test of the justice department as well. the new book is called "where tyranny begins." thank you for your time and this essential read. coming up the extraordinary step one country is taking against elon musk and his social media platform, and that is coming right up. media platform, and that is coming right up. [dog bark] ♪♪ [dog whining] is your dog telling you they may have allergic itch?

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a quick warning. the image i'm about to show you is not real. it was generated by a.i., though that is probably pretty obvious. yesterday trump's favorite billionaire, elon musk, posted this image to his "x" account. it's -- decked out in soviet looking regallia with the caption kamala vows to be a communist dictator on day one. can you believe she wears that outfit?

that fake bit of pot stirring came just one day after elon musk amplified another bizarre post argue that democracy should be replaced with some kind of system where only high testosterone alpha males are allowed to be in charge. definitely posturing, although who knows if elon musk is included in that group. anyways, both are example of the kind of irresponsible and unhinged content elon musk has unleashed on our democracy, and it is not just our democracy that is grappling with it. this weekend the entire nation of brazil lost access to the "x" platform because of an ongoing dispute between elon musk and a judge on brazil's highest court. at the heart of that dispute is musk's refusal to comply with a new brazilian law requiring social media sites to remove misinformation and hate speech from their platforms. yesterday brazil's highest court upheld the decision to effectively turn off "x" across

all of brazil until elon musk complies with brazilian law. musk has cited his commitment to free speech as part of the reason he is refusing to comply with the brazilian government's orders. but consider this little tidbit. last year the autocratic leader of turkey, erdogan, demanded musk must allow erdogan to censor his political opponents and elon musk obliged, literally carrying out his censorship requests. at the time the spree speech solutist defend his decision saying the choice is to have twitter throttled in its entirety or limit access to some tweets. which one do you want? so when an autocrat threatens to turn off "x" unless "x" censors the autocrat's critics, elon musk says he must concede so the people still have access to "x." when a democratic country

demands "x" take down hate speech and disinformation, well then elon musk is willing to let the people lose all access to "x." in any case, brazil's president, lula desylva is also standing up to elon musk. in the peen time musk's wealth is precisely what's drawn the republican front-runner towards elon musk. donald trump continues to shower musk with praise in exchange for promises of bigger campaign donations. in fact, trump has even reportedly considered giving elon musk a role in a future trump administration. musk has reresponded by saying he can't wait to work in the next trump white house. coming up, the political violence of january 6th was both historic and significant, but don't call it unprecedented.

cnn's chief political correspondent, dana bash, joins me to talk about her new book, which is about the little known 1872 louisiana gubernatorial election, and what it might tell us about today. that's right upcoming up after the break. today that's right upcoming up after the break. call 833-leaffilter today for your free gutter inspection. i've had terrible flooding problems on my porch. now i understand why. right now leaffilter is offering a free inspection, on your schedule. leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. call us today and schedule your free inspection. to schedule your free inspection, call 833.leaf.filter today or visit leaffilter.com.

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there's a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don't have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. donald trump's golf club in new jersey was set to host a fund-raising gala this week to celebrate and raise money to cover the legal fees of january 6th rioters. that event has now been quietly postponed indefinitely, but in text messages obtained by "the new york times" the event organizer said she would try to reschedule it for after the election. just to refresh your memory in the three years since january 6, 2021, 944 defendants have been sentenced for their part in the violent attack on the capitol. and just last week the very first rioter to breach the

capitol building was sentenced to more than four years in federal prison. now, as much as that all seems unprecedented, a new book by cnn's dana bash recalls the echoes between louisiana's extraordinarily -- extraordinary election of 1872 and the political turmoil of today including allegations of election fraud and an official trying to hold onto power by any means and political violence. joining me now is dana bash, cnn's chief political correspondent and coauthor of the new book, america's deadliest election, the cautionary tale of the most violent election in american history. it is so lovely to have you. >> you, too. thank you have frg me. >> and congratulations on the book. i've got to say when we all heard the title america's deadliest election it's about january 6th, 2020, but it is not. it's about 1872 and 1876. for people not familiar with

this extraordinary moment in american history, can you talk about what the cross currents were in 1872? >> well, it was reconstruction and the country was trying to figure out how to come together. and in the south what it meant was that you had many, many new voters, and the election beforehand in 1870 carpet baggers came down particularly one who's in the book became governor, henry warmouth, and he realized there's a lot of opportunity with these new voters, and so he said all the right things and at the time he probably meant them or at least they thought he did, and he won huge with all these new votes. the next election the segregationists in the south, the racist southern democrats said, okay, we can't let this happen again because our way of life is already bad enough, without slaves it's going to get even worse. and so they began to realize

that the way to stop their way of life from changing is to disenfranchise those voters at the ballot box, and they did it with intimidation. they did it with fear. they did it with violence. they did it with murder. and the result was a completely corrupted election, and there were two governor candidates neither of whom would concede, both of whom were then inaugurated by their own people. same goes for the legislators, two slates of legislators, judges and so forth. there was complete chaos. the violence was so bad there was a horrible, horrific massacre. i didn't learn about this in school. did you? >> no, neither did i. it is a massacre in every sense. >> at least 150 black men were killed in cold blood. and in effort to find justice for them, the federal government stepped in to try the

perpetrators, the murderers on civil rights charges, and it backfired because it went to the supreme court. and what the supreme court said in a now famous ruling, crook chanc, that the federal government has no right in civil rights and then we got jim crow for 100 years. >> right, then we get jim crow for 100 years. first of all, and by the way the 1876 presidential election is subsequently affected by all the chicanery that unfolds. that happens later in the book. what's staggering is this hinge point, right? the country is supposed to going down the road of reconstruction and creating a democracy and precisely the opposite happens. when you were writing this book with david fisher, were you thinking about this moment today as the supreme court is intervening, right, as we're questioning what it means to be an american, who gets to

participate in the process, who doesn't, what parallels do you see between then and now? >> so many parallels. but the fundamental parallel is what happens when people don't trust our electoral system. back then people didn't trust the electoral system because they shouldn't, because it was corrupted, and it was -- they were disenfranchising people who should have been allowed to vote. and there is a real cross current. now it's people don't trust the electoral system because half of the country is told that they shouldn't trust the electoral system not because we have seen evidence to prove that, and that made its way all the way up to the courts. i don't need to tell you obviously or any of your viewers in 2020. but it is a lesson of what we need to understand about the importance of these systems to being strong. and i don't know that we learned the lesson. i hope we learn the lesson from the last time around, but

subsequently we've seen new laws in place in states who still control the electoral system, but i'm not sure they're going to make it easier for people to vote. >> i think data right now doesn't look so good in terms of enfranchising the voters who precisely need to be heard probably more than most given the history down south. dana, i think this is sort of like really must-read material heading into the november election. some of it reads like a black mirror episode of what we might be looking at. it is a thrill to have you on set here, congratulations on the book. again, the book is titled "america's deadliest election, the cautionary tale of the most violent election in american history." and it is out today. thank you, dana bash and that is our show for tonight. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. i became president, then the second time i got millions more votes than i got the first time. i was told if i got 63 million, which is what i got the first

time, you would win.