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the first pretrial arguments in donald trump's federal election interference hearing since the supreme court's controversial decision ruling out critical testimony of trump's contacts with the justice department and vice president pence. pure evil. a georgia community reeling after a 14-year-old boy allegedly murdered two students and two teachers in a high school 45 miles from atlanta. the sheriff in the town shocked and in mourning. >> i don't know if i will ever get over the sounds, having to do the notifications to the family that their baby is not coming home. love is going to prevail over what happened yesterday. i will do everything in my power to make sure that happens. >> terrifying video showing students helped by law enforcement to escape. the fbi explaining why they had the teenage suspect questioned a year ago but did not follow up. debate prep. rules are set for tuesday's big

showdown in philadelphia. vice president harris picks up a major republican endorsement. >> not only am i not voting for donald trump, but i will vote for kamala harris in this election. [ cheers and applause ] ♪♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. we are watching two major league stories on both coasts. here in d.c., donald trump's legal team and prosecutors facing off in federal court for the first time since that supreme court decision throwing out a lot of the critical evidence in the case, granting the president immunity from those issues. we begin in los angeles where hunter biden has just walked into a federal courtroom and his lawyer says he plans to change his plea in that criminal tax trial. joining me now from outside the courthouse in l.a., sarah

fitzgerald, mike memoli in wisconsin, in d.c. ken dilanian is outside the federal courthouse blocks from here, as is lisa rubin, former u.s. attorney joyce vance is also joining us. sarah fitzgerald, let's start with you. bring us up to speed on the trial. a big change. >> reporter: absolutely. it was a shocking moment in the courtroom. what started out as what appeared to be par for the course. the judge started discussing jury selection, how it would work, how they would move jurors between different rooms. then hunter biden's attorney stood up and said that they would not need to proceed to that because hunter biden intended to change his plea. he intended to change his plea to an alfred plea in which the department accepts the sentence but does not indicate that they are guilty or do not believe they are guilty of the crime.

it's a unique plea. but it's part of the justice department handbook and has been applied in other cases. prosecutors appear to have been caught completely off guard. there were some dramatic talking in the courtroom. they said, this is the first we are hearing of this. the two parties, the prosecution said they needed time to discuss and the two parties right now are deferring and are expected to be in recess until 11:00 a.m. local. abbey lowell expected it could be done by the end of the day. we will wait and see if that happens. it's our understanding from looking at the law that there are some elements that need to happen before that could take place. that will require discussion between the prosecution and the defense. it was a very, very dramatic moment that appears to have caught everyone off guard. we had some indication that

something might be afoot. earlier this morning there was a meeting, hunter biden walked into the courtroom, and the press was not allowed to walk inside. we were told it was a private meeting with the judge. that lasted for some period of time. then at some point, a member of the prosecution team wheeled in a large cart that was full of binders and other trial prep materials, walked into the courtroom and then five minutes later walked out. when i followed her out and asked why she was doing that, she said she did not know and did not have any comment. it's a dramatic course of events here. i think an indication that the defense did not feel that they wanted to go through with what was expected to be a very lengthy, embarrassing and expensive trial. for submitting a false or fraudulent tax form.

it was expected to kind of lay out a lot of his most embarrassing details about drugs, purchases of escorts, other sex club memberships, members of his former family were expected to testify. i think this plea is an indication that at the last moment there was a decision that going to trial was just not worth it. a plea and possible jail time was a better fit. >> thank you so much. mike memoli, this, of course, spares the biden family more details coming out. i think you are in wisconsin where the president will be ledding shortly. he has events there today on the campaign trail as a surrogate today. the biden family, even though he is no longer the candidate, this was going to be a big campaign issue. you know that.

>> reporter: yeah, that's right. president biden today launching something of a new and final phase of his presidency as he describes himself as the busiest surrogate for vice president kamala harris. we saw them together earlier this week in the campaign context in pittsburgh. he was using an event here in southwest wisconsin to talk about the ways in which his agenda delivered for those kinds of voters who didn't support him. when we think back into the context of the previous trial when president biden was an active candidate, we saw just how not just politically potentially that was disruptive for his campaign, but just how damaging it was to the family, how wrenching to have the first lady of the united states attending most of the days of that trial. at one point flying to and from france twice to be there for her son. other members of the family there to be in support of him. to see members of his family, his ex-wife, his daughter testify against him and on his

behalf. this was a wrenching moment for the family. as soon as that guilty verdict came down, the questions were immediately, looking ahead to this trial, knowing as sarah laid out details that would emerge, topics discussed, questions asked, more embarrassing, more difficult, more personally problematic for the biden family. was there any way to avoid this second trial coming to be? there had been very little indication that a guilty plea or some sort of change in plea might change -- might be coming. this was something that i think many people in and around the president who have been watching this all play out without the ability to maybe influence events, this has been a family member that has been handled within the family. we saw the white house press secretary asked about this. she once again said this is a -- that hunter biden is a private citizen, a private matter and they would not comment. if this goes forward -- that's a big if. we have been down this road before.

we saw hunter biden attempt to go in with a plea agreement with the government that fell apart under questioning from the judge. we must stress in the early stages of these developments today the judge would have to accept this, the government would have to be willing participants in this before we can say that this is a degree of finality. if this were agreed to, this is not over for hunter biden. this does lift a certain amount of weight from the shoulders of the family. but he does have sentencing that he is awaiting for that prior conviction after the election in november in delaware. that would still be outstanding. certainly some significant developments from the biden family perspective. >> you are right, mike. your perspective is important. joyce vance, bringing you in here to talk about the legal issues. as mike points out, the judge has to accept this. the delaware case, which was the gun felony case, the case that was going to resolve all these issues and avoid the tax charge from proceeding, that deal -- that plea agreement fell apart.

what are the chances the judge says, no, i'm not going to accept this, let's go to trial? is this something that does benefit the government? they don't have to have an expensive trial tieing up a judge and courtroom. all sides can agree. it's an acknowledgement of guilt. he is not disputing that, but it's not a guilty plea. the evidence won't be presented in all of its salacious aspects. >> it's valuable to the government. this isn't the normal kind of plea agreement we are used to seeing where the government and defendant work out a deal and the defendant acknowledges guilt. here hunter biden will maintain he is not guilty, but he is pleading because it's in his best interests to do so, because he believes the government could get a conviction at trial.

the judge will -- this is what happens in a normal plea agreement situation, too. the judge will question biden very carefully to ensure that the plea is voluntary, that he understands the consequences, that he knows that he will face sentencing and possible time in custody. it will be up to the judge whether or not to accept this sort of plea. these aren't common but not unheard of. they are something the prosecutors will be authorized to sit in the courtroom and watch happen. it's an unusual twist. it's interesting that biden gave -- appears to have given no notice to the government in advance of advising the court he intended to plead. the last thing i will say is that defendants in criminal cases always have a right to plead guilty. they can stand up in court, they can plead guilty to the indictment that they are charged in and take the consequences. this is different from that. it's different from the typical negotiated plea. this is a defendant saying, i'm

not guilty, but it's in my best interests to plead so that's what i'm going to do. >> very briefly, in making this plea, if she were to accept it, we should point out that the biden defense has argued that most people who pay their back taxes in white collar cases are not prosecuted. this was already, according to them, an unusual prosecution, which they said had some political implications. joyce? >> that's right. that makes this plea a little bit surprising. because biden's attorneys seemed to be preserving for the appeal their ability to make that kind of argument, that this was a selective or vindictive prosecution. that biden was treated differently than other similarly situated defendants. perhaps prosecution was motivated by political problems. they were rejected here.

it looks like when they were facing picking a jury, they decided it was truly in his best interests to enter this plea. >> okay. thanks to mike memoli. joyce, hang with us. thanks to sarah fitzgerald. back to the courthouse here in washington. chutkan saying the court is not concerned with the election time line. special counsel retooled its indictment to focus on donald trump's role as a private citizen. the former president did not attend in person. he didn't have to. his attorneys entered a not guilty plea to the superseding indictment on his behalf that came out two weeks ago. ken dilanian and lisa rubin are outside the courthouse. ken, what are the sides arguing when it comes to mr. trump's january 6th conversation with

then vice president mike pence? >> reporter: on that score -- this was a scheduling hearing. we will see -- we think we will see a ruling -- a scheduling order from judge chutkan later today. on the question you just asked about vice president pence, what the special counsel is arguing is that that conduct, donald trump's pressure on vice president pence to delay the certification, that is properly included in this indictment despite the supreme court decision on presidential immunity, because donald trump wasn't acting as the president when he did that. he was acting as a candidate. mike pence was acting as the president of the senate in a ceremonial role. that's hotly disputed. that's one of the things they litigate before judge chutkan. what was really in dispute today was the scheduling and the order of things. special counsel wants to deal with the immunity question first and foremost. he wants to file a detailed brief, including possibly new evidence, including grand jury testimony and other evidence that the public hasn't seen

before in order to argue before judge chutkan about what conduct should be included in this indictment, what is presidential acts and what is not. donald trump's lawyers are pushing back against that. they want to delay. they are arguing there should be other things that she deals with first, including the question of whether the special counsel's appointment was legal, something which in this d.c. circuit has never been entertained. they have ruled it's kosher. in terms of tone, judge chutkan could not be more different than judge cannon in florida in terms of making clear that donald trump's role as a presidential candidate and a former president has nothing to do with this criminal indictment. the public as well as the defendant has a right to a speedy trial. she knows whatever she decides will be appealed to the supreme court. she will not set a trial date. she does intend to set a

scheduling date later today. we will learn more perhaps about how this case is going to proceed. what we will see before the november election. >> lisa, you were there inside the courtroom in this federal courthouse. what struck you about the two sides and the judge's conduct here and what she's going to entertain and what she's not going to do? >> reporter: judge chutkan was prepared for today's status conference, going through methodically not only where the case has been but what outstanding issues are still on her plate before asking the parties to talk about what the schedule should be going ahead with respect to immunity. one thing that really struck me was not only the presence of the special counsel jack smith, but how all eyes darted in his direction when they talked about his desire to brief the legitimacy of the special counsel's appointment and funding for his office. jack smith, he said, is an illegitimate prosecutor who has

overseen an illegitimate indictment. judge chutkan pushing back. as ken said, reminding them that in this circuit, the d.c. circuit, has long ago decided that a special counsel can be appointed by an attorney general consistent with the constitution. the other thing that struck me was just what a difference oral argument can make. it really crystallized the issues between the two parties. special counsel's office telling judge chutkan that while in the ordinary course, it's up to a defendant to move to dismiss an indictment or superseding indictment, because of the immunity issues here and because of their desire to litigate those issues all at once and have only one more round of appeals before trial, they want to put forward before her a brief that includes all of the evidence on which they are relying. that could be grand injury

transcripted. memos memorializing interviews. it could take the form of lots of other kinds of evidence. most of which they maintain is sealed. that's where we got into the election. the brief the special counsel's office wants to file would put in front of the public inflammatory evidence at a particularly sensitive time. when he said sensitive time, judge chutkan said, ah. she said, what you are alluding to, the pretext here and that sensitive time is the election. that is of no moment to the court. >> joyce, what's really interesting here is the first time we are seeing and hearing from her since the immunity ruling by the court, which barred jack smith from even mentioning mr. trump's attempt to use the justice department to call mike pence. they will put forward in the 302s all of this evidence that would have come out at trial. this will be a way of possibly

before november giving the public some indication of what the prosecution case is, assuming that she does rule as indicated that the prosecutor -- that jack smith has the right to do that. that could be appealed to the supreme court. would that delay everything, including further pretrial hearings? >> it's messy. right? we will watch the sausage get made and it won't be pretty. the reality is, we don't know all of the answers about the time line or how the process will work. it's very clear that donald trump's lawyers have one goal, that delay. the special counsel has a very different goal. his goal is to limit the number of additional pretrial appeals to just one. he wants to get all of these immunity questions out and presumably other issues involving motions to dismiss to the extent that they are appealable pretrial, he wants them all out now so it can go up in one more package and then hopefully he will get to try his case.

here is the reality about discovery and evidence. i think we need to push back a little bit on this notion that we are going to learn a lot of new things if the government's case is revealed before trial. we already know what happened. we lived through it. might jack smith have a new witness? perhaps a cooperating co-defendant from the trump camp? that's certainly possible, because there are people who have pled guilty in some of the state cases. i think we already know the contours of this case. judge chutkan really put it best. when they tried to say this was about the presidency, she said, no, this is a case about the four charges in this case. her job right now is to take the supreme court's decision that expanded the contours of presidential immunity beyond what we knew and decide what evidence can still be heard at trial. >> it's such important points. we appreciate you all.

right now in new york city, former president trump is giving a speech to the economic club of new york where he is expected to call for a lower corporate tax rate and population -- ecuse me, regulation cuts. this is the most important economic audience. it's all of wall street and banking in the world, really. it's a good chance for him to try to persuade them. a lot of them back him, whatever his politics. they like his economic policies. we will bring you any major news. a terrible day in georgia. a georgia community mourning after a teen suspect opens fire at a high school killing four people. we will have the latest on the ground next. this is "andrea mitchell reports." we are back in 90 seconds. don't go away. you are watching msnbc. away. you are watching msnbc , these g. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right?

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once we got on the farmer's dog he just attacks it, it's incredible. they're so tuned into you and they have such, such personality. being without a dog, i don't know, can't imagine it. [laughter] today is a day of mourning in georgia for the community around apalachee high school after the latest horrific school shooting in our country. two students, both just 14 years old, two math teachers were killed, nine others wounded. they are expected to survive. the suspect, a 14-year-old, colt gray. he will be charged with murder and tried as an adult which is why we are naming him. he was interviewed last year as a 13-year-old for making threats online allegedly to carry out a school shooting. officials say there was no probable cause to arrest him at

that time. joining me now is jesse kirsch in winder, georgia. we have been watching this for the last 24 hours. just 24 hours since the shooting. how are people in winder dealing with there horror? >> reporter: there were dozens of people, it was silent. people were wiping aware tears. there were candles lit, balloons released. this community came together in prayer. one of the things that caught my attention is one of the people up at the microphone leading people in the prayer asked not just for those who lost their lives, those injured, but prayers for the person who is accused of carrying out this vicious crime. we have spoken with members of the community. i spoke with a 15-year-old who says she was a student who was in the school, heard and saw this horror unfolding. here is what she shared. >> it's really terrifying.

how could somebody so young do that to over 30 people in less than 30 minutes of a span of time? it's horrific. >> reporter: that teen told me that she says it doesn't matter what you do, there's no way to be safe in a school setting. to hear that is such a stark reminder of where we are today. >> thank you so much. the pain is throughout the country. but for that community, it's profound. coming up next, the harris and trump campaigns agreeing to debate rules for tuesday. i will talk to harris' campaign senior national spokesperson about that and more. that's coming up next. stay with us. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. "ana mitchell reports" on msnbc kes t. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are.

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let's say you're deep in a show from wherever you are. or a game or the game. on a train, at home, at work. okay, maybe not at work. point is at xfinity. we're constantly engineering new ways to get the entertainment you love to you faster and easier than ever. that's what i do. is that love island? kamala harris is in pittsburgh today. she traveled to pennsylvania for

debate prep and a few informal campaign stops, we are told. with five days to go until the big showdown, they will meet for the first and perhaps only time. microphones will be muted when a candidate is not speaking. that was one of the disputed issues. there will not be an audience in the debate hall. joining us now, ian sams, former white house official. it's great to see you. want to ask you, how is vice president harris preparing for this debate? is she doing mocks in pittsburgh now as well? >> she's preparing for this debate to share her vision of the country with the american people. this might be the first time a lot of people hear from her on a debate stage. i think you mentioned the fact that the trump campaign insisted open having the microphones muted. i think you can see that's

clearly a concentrated effort by president trump to create a parameter to let him be more disciplined and more careful in his approach. i think people might be underestimating his ability in the debate given the structure and format of those muted microphones. he lies so much that it's hard to fact check him in real time whether you are a moderator or a candidate running against him. i think his handlers worked hard to make sure the mics stay muted to put him in a better position to be success. this is his seventh presidential debate, probably the most of anybody in history. he is a showman. he will come in ready to debate. the vice president is preparing very hard to share with the country her vision for a new way forward and the significant differences between she and president trump in this campaign. >> you and the vice president know better than anyone, other than joe biden, how important these confrontations can be, for good or not.

james carville, democratic guru, suggested she should get under his skin. clearly, what is working for you so far in the last couple weeks is her ridicule, not taking his taunts seriously. sort of dismissing him and all of his disparaging insults that she's not intelligent and the remarks about gender. is that the game plan to kind of dismiss him and not -- and prompt him to go off message, prompt him to be less disciplined? >> i think what's challenging and unfortunate about this debate format is that it limits the vice president's ability to prosecute the political case against president trump. people remember clearly in the senate when she would have trump officials or judicial nominees in front of a judiciary committee, the way she's able to question someone to try to draw out the truth and put facts on the table.

unfortunately because of the insistence by trump's campaign to have the microphones muted, up to what we believe was threatening to pull out of the debate, we thought it was more important to have. but it's unfortunate that she won't be able to go after him with that sort of prosecutorial line of questioning to hold him accountable in this debate. we know he is going to try to mislead the country about where he stands. we know he is going to push negative attacks on the vice president. she's going to be ready to tell the american people the truth, to respond to his claims about her and to share her vision with the country. i think it does create a challenge that we aren't going to be able to have the ability to go directly at these claims made by president trump or to try to hold him accountable for his own misstatements and, frankly, offensive sort of attacks against her. >> former republican congresswoman liz cheney famously -- the co-chair of the

january 6 investigation, endorsed kamala harris last night. here is what she had to say at duke university. >> i don't believe that we have the luxury of writing in candidates' names, particularly in swing states. as a conservative, as someone who believes in and cares about the constitution, i have thought deeply about this. because of the danger that donald trump poses, not only am i not voting for donald trump, but i will be voting for kamala harris in this election. [ cheers and applause ] >> how do you think the liz cheney endorsement might help you? >> well, look, congresswoman cheney is a patriot. in the last five years, we have seen over and over again her put country over party. as john mccain would say, to put country first. i think the vice president

really respects these republicans, these true conservatives who are having the courage to speak out and to say that what we see from president trump is unacceptable. we can't select him in this election. we have to choose a new way forward. we have to turn the page on what he has represented, the chaos, the division, the erosion of freedoms and constitutional ideals. she welcomes the support of anyone in this country who is tired of what president trump is offering. i think that she's offering a big, bold, inclusive vision for any voter, whether you are on the right, left or someone in between, to support her. we think that this is momentum we can keep up right now with republicans who are speaking up and saying they will support vice president harris. we welcome them in this campaign. we hope this is a campaign that they can believe in. >> ian sams, thank you very much. >> thanks. joining us now is kelly

o'donnell, former chief strategist for the 2024 bush-cheney campaign matthew dowd and joe crowley. kelly, to you. we know liz cheney. she's going a step beyond what other anti-trump republicans have said, not just that she's not -- that she's going to sit out the election, she said she's going to vote for kamala harris. what's the significance of that shift? do you think this helps with, let's say, independent voters, suburban women, nikki haley voters? >> reporter: she also described herself as still very much a conservative and very devoted to the constitution in the same breath in which they said she would vote for kamala harris. that's about saying she's not changing her views, but she's making a choice. as she outlined, that if you are in a battleground state like here in pennsylvania, writing in a name, which is an option plenty of anti-trump republicans

could do, that the margin could be so close that it really needs to be a binary choice in her view. the campaign for harris and walz is trying to use this as one of many -- certainly the most prominent -- republican who held elected office and the family dynasty of her father who served as vice president and in many senior roles in other republican white houses, that this is an invitation to those other voters who might be nikki haley voters, in the republican party, but uncomfortable, and a way to say that this is outreach to those voters. as we heard at the convention where one of the republicans who spoke said, voting for harris does not make you a democrat, it's an opportunity to just express a choice in this election. they are trying to retain that sense that people who have voted republican may believe in more conservative principles can vote for her. many of them may not line up on issues. if it's a choice between the

former president, if they are uncomfortable, this gives them an option. that's how the harris-walz campaign wants to frame this. they welcome liz cheney's support. >> matthew, what do you make of this endorsement? right now, donald trump is speaking to the economic club of new york. he has all of wall street there. he has a lot of supporters in the business community. on the issues, there's a split right now he is emphasizing energy, that he is going to make energy amazing and clearly that they have been talking a lot about pennsylvania, fracking. she's in pittsburgh. she had been against fracking. that's an issue you can expect in the debate. tax policy. this is important to the business community. she's now split with joe biden. one of her first disagreements. she's going for not as big a change in the capital gains tax. she would give them more favorable treatment, the business community, not as favorable as trump, but not as

anti-business, if you will, if i can characterize it as joe biden. >> i would like to split the way we look at this into two parts. one part is the business community. other part is extremely wealthy people. the extremely wealthy people are different than the business community, even though there is some overlap. donald trump's tax policy is beneficial for the extreme wealthy of the country as we have learned in this. it's not necessarily beneficial for the business community. i think as we saw from goldman sachs announcing the gdp will grow if vice president harris wins, it will decline if donald trump wins, i think most of the fortune 500 want, even though they stay out of this to a large degree, and would prefer a harris administration, because it's less chaotic, it's predictable, it follows the rules, it stays within the boundaries of where we are. which is makes her a unique coalition that she's built of the fortune 500 along with labor in this. donald trump has peeled off some

of the silicon valley billionaires, some of the more wealthy people who in my view have no interest in the common good in the country. they are only interested in their own good and in their own wealth. i think that's the argument she can make. she can say, i'm interested in the common good. donald's policies are for a select few people. >> joe, weigh in on this. she was making the argument in new hampshire yesterday, she was talking about small business and how she's going to help them more. she's trying to do that. what she's trying to do is combat this -- you have to say on the surface of it really phony argument from donald trump, which he was making that she's a communist marxist. elon musk put out this artificial intelligence social media post portraying her at comrade harris. let me play some of donald trump in new york just now at the economic club. get you on the other side.

>> kamala harris is the first major party nominee in american history who fundamentally rejected freedom and embraces marxism and communist and fascist. nobody knew who she was. they didn't know who she was. she's promising communist price control, wealth confiscation, energy annihilation, reparations, the largest tax increase ever imposed. >> well, i remember richard nixon -- a well-known non-communist entering the cold war or proposing price controls to the dismay of many mainstream economists. any case, and he is also -- he has done some of the same proposals himself. i can't fact check it in real time. >> what i find interesting here

is that he called her a communist and a fascist. obviously, he didn't take american politics 101. >> this is a very sophisticated audience. >> they know exactly who kamala harris is. they know her as a former prosecutor, former senator. now as the vice president. they will not be fooled by this. this speech is not for them. they know they are speaking to a broader audience. at one time i heard it say in the past, if you want to live kerepublican, vote democrat. i think that's what kamala harris is saying as well. i'm not the boogie man. i'm going to do what's right for our country. i want to help build our economy. i want to help small businesses. i want to help our economy grow. like goldman sachs said, chances are if you vote democrat in this election, our economy -- our gdp will grow. if you vote republican, it will not. >> kelly, let's get back to debate prep then. the rules are going to be the

same as they were in the previous debate. we showed how donald trump in the previous debate, no matter what he was asked, he answered about immigration. joe biden, we know what that looked like. how is she preparing? she can't be the prosecutor. ian sams acknowledged that. she can't go after him and jump in. the mics will be closed. how does she prepare and be as disciplined as he very well may be? >> reporter: preparing is the reason we're in pittsburgh today. some senior members of her team are already here in downtown pittsburgh. she will be arriving to spend a few days here to have focused preparation and to have the benefit of being in a battleground state where if she chooses to go get a cup of coffee or stop at a local business, she will get a lot of local attention in a state where every vote will be critical come november. using the time for two purposes. getting ready for the debate and also doing by extension a

battleground presence. without the microphones in the configuration that per team wanted, separate from what president biden had wanted, which was the muted microphones, because of his different way of wanting to process the information and to contest donald trump, this will put some challenges to her. at the same time, her team says that they believe that there will be a couple of things that will help that. there will be a press pool in the venue who can listen if there is over talk between the two candidates and hear that, even if the audience at home doesn't. there could be some circumstances, the harris campaign says, of turning the mics on is there significant over talk. she will have to prepare for the rules as they are, which includes no notes, no prompts. they will be standing, which is typical. the work will be happening right here in pittsburgh for this debate. she's been doing work in washington, d.c. to get ready for this as well.

it will be focused here. it will, of course, lead into philadelphia hosting the debate next week. it will be a challenge. they have never met in person, as you know. she will be preparing with the help of a colleague who will be playing donald trump with all of the affects and bravado and style that that colleague has studied of donald trump to help get her in the mindset to be ready for that, to make her case and to be able to pivot off of whatever he says. they have been studying the attacks they have made on her, which are in many cases quite personal and how she will respond. >> with hillary clinton, it was felipe ryan playing donald trump. we know how aggressive he got. >> reporter: it's him again. >> thanks to all of you. from election season to football season. it's back.

tonight is the night. watch the ravens and chiefs. we don't know about taylor swift. it's tba. 7:00 eastern. tomorrow, same time, the packers and eagles. all of it on your local nbc station and streaming only on peacock. up next, while the justice department clamps down on russian election interference, vladimir putin says he is rooting for one specific candidate in the u.s. election. you will not believe who that is. former national security advisor h.r. mcmaster joining us next. more coming up. stay with us. this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. long time ago. and year after year, you weathered the storm and just lived with the damage that was left behind. but even after all this time your thyroid eye disease could still change. restoration is still possible. learn how you could give your eyes a fresh start at tedhelp.com.

vladimir putin accused just yesterday by the justice department of trying to help the trump campaign. today said he is supporting none other than kamala harris. explaining he likes her, quote, infectius and expressive laugh. of course, donald trump has ridiculed harris' laugh. u.s. intelligence agencies say the kremlin prefers trump because of his skepticism of supporting ukraine. the u.s. accused russia of trying to help the trump campaign. the justice and treasury department also accusing two rt employees of bankrolling an online russian propaganda campaign. rt's press office wrote --

joining me now is retired lieutenant general h.r. mcmaster, former national security advisor for then president trump. his new book is "at war with ourselves, my tour of duty in the trump white house," which is remarkable. first of all, it's great to see you. >> great to be with you. >> i've been looking forward to this. i want to talk to you about vladimir putin's claims. he says he preferred kamala harris. all of our intelligence agencies saying that russia is preferring and supporting donald trump. that was the basis of the charges yesterday. >> he is an operator. he is doing everything he can to undermine our confidence in our democratic process and in our institutions. i haven't read the whole report, but it's well done. what i think -- this is a setup.

it's a setup. i don't think that vladimir putin cares who wins our elections as long as large numbers of americans doubt the legitimacy of the result. i think what we all can do is not fall for it this time. we know what his playbook is. they get more adept at it. i think that his statement yesterday, the activities of the gru and svr and intelligence organizations running this influence campaign, what they want to do is erode our common identity, pit us against each other and reduce our confidence in who we are and in our institutions. >> we are focusing on russia because vladimir putin came out today, but we want to point out that garland and the government is saying that china, iran also actively trying to influence our campaign. focusing on false disagreements, promoting disagreements and in-fighting in the u.s. putin claimed that ukraine's

incursion in the north has failed to slow russia's advances. was that incursion a mistake given russia has retaliated big time? do you worry that trump is going to help putin if he is elected, force ukraine into making concessions and basically surrendering its independence? >> i'm concerned about sustained support for ukraine. i think it was a good decision to make the incursion and to get out from under the warfare and air defense umbrella so that ukrainians could strike at some of these that were -- thatimpunity. what's necessary at this stage is to lift some of the restrictions, you know, on the munitions and weapons systems we provided, and to build confidence with ukraine and say they will have sustained support. i worry about president trump's

desire for a big deal. you know, putin plays everybody, right? he is an operator. he will appeal to president trump if he is re-elected to his desire to have some kind of a big deal and to have some kind of an entente with putin. you know, putin is determined to drag everybody else down under the theory that he can be sort of the last man standing and can restore russia to national greatness. he's told us that with the essay he penned just a few months before he conducted the massive reinvasion of ukraine. i think we have to take him at his word. recognize that a cease-fire is not going to solve the problem in ukraine unless ukraine can regain the initiative and negotiate some sort of negotiated settlement under favorable conditions. i mean, i think what we've seen is putin decided, hey, he can't have all ukraine thanks to the valor and sacrifices of the ukrainians, but he's decided, well, if i can't have ukraine, ukraine can't have ukraine

either. we're going to see this continued onslaught until ukraine is allowed to not only shoot down the arrows coming at them in the form of these glide bombs and missiles, but also have the opportunity to kill the archer on the other end with some of these longer-range systems. >> of course, putin, we should point out to anyone who doesn't know, is former kgb, the predecessor of the fsb. he was an intelligence guy his whole career. let's turn to the war in gaza. u.s. officials, israeli defense minister, the agencies are all clearly frustrated that prime minister netanyahu, they say, is raising so many obstacles that there can't be a cease-fire, can't be a hostage release. i mean, we know hamas is at fault for starting this and could release the hostages at any point. that's a given. but at this point, nbc is reporting that the u.s. is considering options to try to deal, to our partners, with hamas directly, for american

surviving hostages and some others. is that smart right now given that our ally, the israeli prime minister, is ignoring people, his defense minister and everyone else and refuses to concede? >> andrea, i have a different perspective on this. i understand the arguments in favor of pushing hard for a cease-fire at the moment. you know, for the humanitarian purpose of stopping the suffering of innocents and getting the release of the hostages. but really, andrea, i don't think there's any other option but to destroy hamas. and the reason for this is that hamas still has the guns in gaza, and a new political order in gaza, the palestinian political order, cannot emerge as long as they are still a viable -- >> what about the fact the defense minister, gallant, says -- and the intelligence say they can't be destroyed, quote, destroyed? you've done as much as you can. >> well, you know, sinwashingto

still alive, and the leaders are still hiding, probably in khan yunis, they think, at the moment. they have to be hunted down, you know, because they deserve to be hunted down after the heinous attacks of october 7th and so many acts of murder and terrorism, you know, before and after that. but there can't be -- if you care about -- you know, there's talk about, hey, can we ever get on a path to a two-state solution? can there been an enduring peace between israel and the palestinians? you can't get on that track as long as hamas is in control of gaza. so if you believe in some kind of a two-state solution, you know, step a to get there has to be the destruction of hamas, the emergence of a new security order in gaza, maybe a multinational one with the emirates, egyptians, and others pitching into that, to give space for a new political order to emerge there. you know, andrea, if you say, hey, i'll be the mayor of gaza, guess what will happen? you know, within a few minutes,

you'll get a bullet in the head. so i think people are looking past, you know, the -- that fundamental precondition for, you know, for any kind of enduring peace. you know, to get rid of the organization, andrea, that has diverted so much assistance from the palestinian people into its terrorist infrastructure. an organization that really is committed to destroying israel and killing all the jews. that doesn't sound like they're signing up for a two-state solution to me. i just think -- i know it's not what you normally hear these days. of course, you know, i would el this new order, to give space for a new order to emerge, but that's not what the hamas leaders have in mind. >> let me ask you a couple quick questions. in your book, you talk about a 13-day trip to asia in which president trump was tired, irritated. he's now 78. do you think he has the stamina and focus to be president? >> i'm not with him now.

like you and i are both looking at him, it seems like he can get around fine. you know, he has plenty of energy at his rallies, for example. but i do think the demands of the job are considerable. what i write in the book, you know, is the demands are cognitive. as we have seen with the concerns over president biden. they're also physical in terms of physical endurance, especially on travel. like the overly long trip to asia. >> well, i'm also taking the presidential daily brief, which he didn't seem to pay a lot of attention to. i also want to ask quickly about arlington. you know, military has criticized it. defense is he was invited. but he went to section 60 where photographs are not allowed. they did a video and put it out as a campaign video on tiktok. was that wrong? >> yes, it was wrong. andrea, no doubt about it. i mean, i think that any time you try to politicize the military overall, but then to politicize those who made the

ultimate sacrifice in our name should be regarded as unconscionable. you know, i think what we've seen lately, this fits a pattern, andrea, where i think people in both political parties try to cloak themselves in the military. what that -- you don't want to drag the military into this partisan politics. it's destructive to our ethos and our professional military ethic. ultimately, american's confidence in their military. we have to be studiously non-partisan. andrea, i remember back to, i think it was april of 20, gosh, '21, when president biden went to area 60 to announce the complete withdrawal of afghanistan. i thought, how can he think that's a good idea? standing among those who made the ultimate sacrifice and then to say, "we're going to withdraw from afghanistan." this is indicative for president trump and president biden. there is a disconnect between even our most senior political

leaders and understanding. they don't understand really why america's warriors fight, why we serve. so i think we need to maybe educate ourselves about the professional military. >> and that is what you do in "at war with ourselves." great book. retired general h.r. mcmaster, thank you very much. >> andrea, to you know you're in the book? i didn't name you. do you know the scene? in the auditorium. i want to thank you. thank you. >> thank you, sir. that does it for us in this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." "chris jansing reports" starts after a quick break. the whole class knows i got my (bleep) together. just say it! you can get your shots together too, your covid-19 shot and your flu shot, at the same visit, as recommended by the cdc. i got my shots together, dude! ask your healthcare provider about getting this season's covid-19 shot when getting your flu shot, if you're due for both.

♪♪ are you getting your (bleep) together? ♪♪

good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. moving ahead. for the first time in 325 days, lawyers argue former president donald trump's january 6th case before