welcome. let's get right into the headlines. most people think you don't want a rookie pilot in your plane and we could show this across history in both parties

that voters generally prefer government experience for the job of running the government which does make sense. that is why it is pretty common to attack a candidate by going after their experience and qualifications. here is the special report about something that really matters and you may hear about at the debate next weekend into the election. president biden spent his life in government and everybody knows that. when democrats began to look at kamala harris as his replacement, republicans rushed to question her competence in government experience and let me remind you that donald trump put out the word that she was "too inexperienced." and from there the headlines came out that she was unqualified and some said she was the most unqualified candidate around and you can see the reports hitting this and the basic maga attack here is on experience. and then some of them mix it in

with the claim that she wasn't only inexperienced but somehow only rising as a kind of an experienced unqualified diversity pick. they are empirically wrong and this is false and i will explain why but to remind you what we are talking about here is what the right has been pushing. >> this will mean not capable having the nuclear codes. >> she is not capable of leading the country. >> i think she was the dei hire. completely obsessed with identity of an actual competent experience results. >> on capable and unqualified to be the president. >> she is just not ready. >> all right. those are factual claims and i told you before every but he has not only the right but really the obligation to debate these claims but those are

claims about her experience in government and her qualifications to leading government and these are facts -- about facts and not opinions and these are all wrong. and not only factually wrong but glaringly so compared to most presidential nominees and especially compared to most recent republican ones and i will show you these right now because this does matter in the facts matter and this is also a campaign topic and they are attacking her for it and you could hear about it at the debate and if they attack her about things that are false and i told you about the danger of disinformation and propaganda in the democracy, we will give you the facts and this is something you may want to remember or share and i will let you decide. let me show you why the voices you just heard are either wrong and ignorant of basic civics or, worse, aware of all of that and being deceitful about harris. the facts show presidential nominees typically have some experience in election government and you can go to jfk and reagan and their first

white house run is a nominee, the point where harris is now they each had about 13 and 18 years -- eight years and for jfk was congress and for reagan it was governor and voters could see that at the time and that was during the first run for president and they knew they had that background and it wasn't their whole adult career but a slice. obama had less time and national office of people discussed that in his first run and he also served in state office and 11 years total and you had donald trump with zero years when he ran. trump was unusual in so many ways. that is one where it was known at the time but he claimed coming in fresh was a positive and good he didn't have experience and he ran against the swamp and you can make that argument and that kind of an experience itself was the first in all of

american history. every other president at the same point in time in the chart, their first run in office as a nominee had elective or military experience and one headline said donald trump is the only president ever with no political or military experience running the government with no government experience. those are recent presidents in both parties with experience ranging from the unusual, zero to the high of around a decade. so how does harris compare? well, here are the facts. kamala harris and put this in full has more experience than all of them. this is by a lot and i will leave this up for you because you have a lot of different numbers and historical comparisons but this is the factual and go to the false of the misinformation or possibly lies i showed you and not only does she have more experience than all of these others during the first run is a nominee but she doubles most of them and served in elected government

positions. she has more experience in our first run then reagan and jfk combined in their same respective career positions and these are facts and easily obtainable and this isn't like we are going back to the 1800s and researching some whig tory library book and if anybody should be on defense over experience that is the republicans. it is telling that a person and in this case kamala harris can literally be the most experienced among nominees in the modern area -- era that i am showing on the screen and still face political attacks and conversations about whether she is experienced enough.

jimi hendrix wouldn't be okay with this. as for politics, the recent republican presidents versus harris bush had six years as governor of texas and trump had none when he was in her position and harris has 21 years. the point is not only that the maga attacks are false but the voters may want to compare how they have spent their time and we do have some quick flashbacks for you. a young kennedy there spent his youth in public service in the military before running for office and harris did public service working her way up in offices before she ever tried to run one. obama did pretty non-lucrative organizing work out of school. harris was passing on high- paying private law jobs and those choices and their early careers are something that people want to look at as voters and that brings us to another comparison which debunks some of these attacks. harris spent her 30s working in the california government in a das office before she ran for office. that would be less lucrative

than admittedly ronald reagan before he turned politics. voters do way experience in priorities and this was the time before the power and fame were on the table running for office and trying to get power being on national television and in the debate and all of that stuff and those are not the only ways to serve. i just showed you the photographs which got you in the mind of, yes, he was out in the military in world war ii before all the rest. but if you update those charts i did to include the public service not just elected office but asked people on the country, a lot of folks value public service rather than running for office. the charges stack up if you add that up and kennedy and reagan both had military service and we color-coded that and that adds to the prior public government service they had before coming there parties

nominee and obama didn't have that kind of service and his total would stay at 11 years. and then if you use that, kamala harris does going higher because you have to go to work as an employee and an assistant da and prosecutors in two different das offices before running herself plus the many other things she has done or post she held before becoming nominees and it's far higher and on these other or than these past other nominees for their first run. that is 13 x years of government experience and you boil it down and what you see on the screen is the ultimate fact check to one of the biggest lies circulating about kamala harris and one that people may repeat and it could be a reasonable person saying i heard she was an experienced or qualified or fast tracked and it is the opposite.

she has this edge over the nominees in both parties and it does show as she approaches her 60th birthday she has served publicly in some kind of office for over three decades. are you experienced? i quoted jimi hendrix. this is what experience looks like. this is what it looks like. and then you go to the type of politics we live in and imagine spending your whole adult career in public government service and sometimes in thankless and anonymous roles definitely making less money than you could at other jobs and sometimes breaking various right -- barriers and rising and then having political hacks and there dc pundit enablers

wasting time claiming there is a real debate to be had about whether you are experienced or not when you are literally the most? i could stop there but this is her special report. we do have another layer for you. even after this fact check which is very attainable and you could get information about trump and reagan. imagine, above all of this, that kamala harris faces competition of a ticket with trump with the experience i already mentioned and i don't say it's automatically bad but just 30 percent or 30+ more years but he has a plan if he became president would be the oldest so four years ago when she had 31 years experience, and who does that stack up against, jd vance has two years in elected office total and four years serving in the marines. so six years if you counted altogether, a wider count including public service. these are the polls. and with the chutzpah to not

only question her experience but literally claim she isn't experienced enough. if she isn't, what does that make jd vance? should he be booted from all campaigns for the next 15+ years? i did tell you this is a special report. it may sound tough on the opponents to this very experienced candidate but these are just facts and numbers. it may sound like a topic that benefits harris and they did a whole special report and it benefits her. this is a republican talking topic and this is what trump was pushing and continue to push and echo on fox news and they add a little bit of dei when they are feeling a little rambunctious. the numbers don't lie. the topic was picked by her opponent and it benefits her. we will put it up one more time and the numbers tell the story and sometimes the top story in

the country will be a chart because among all of this crap sometimes we have to show you the numbers and the facts because the facts matter and they wouldn't lie about them if they weren't concerned that people would somehow learn the facts that she is this more experienced. so where do we go from here? we know this will be a big deal at the debate in the weeks ahead and the cheney factor, i will get into all of this.

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we are back and the experience and qualifications is what some people call itself owned by the facts and boomerang the ticket and what you think about the history and does it matter for the campaign ? >> it doesn't matter for the campaign and the reality is republicans always attack democratic candidates on experience and i remember very well they attacked barack obama for that and mocked his

community organizer experience at the republican convention and ran advertisements saying he is nothing but a celebrity and doesn't know anything about government and it turned out well for the country and i do remember bill clinton when he ran and george bush senior said his only foreign policy experience is eating at the international house of pancakes and that turned out not to really land with voters so they do do this, but i also think there is a deeper issue with republican party and donald trump in this campaign. they are now pivoting with that experience because their previous lines of attack on harris haven't worked. if we do step back, we admit when joe biden was the nominee and donald trump had a single message that i am strong and he is weak and everything fed into that in the debate and the assassination attempt and all of that reinforced that message and harris has stepped in and now no message and donald trump

tried to say, well, i am white and she is not really black and that didn't go anywhere and trying to talk about experience and i am and she isn't. let's talk about donald trump's experience. of course he did this before president but the many became president he was a very unpopular president who lost in 2020 and something now he readily admits so this is another failed attempt at a message on the part of the trump campaign and i think you will see this continue all the way until election day and trying and failing to get a successful message against harris. >> it is interesting when you mention obama because i think people do casually even though he had a successful presidency they remember him as a new face and that attention on the organizer. but i did mention this in the report today and voters tend to credit the choices you make and

we do know a lot of voters care about people's families because it's telling them how they live their day-to-day lives. and do they relate or do you have some sort of family life like that. but we have seen that come up. family, community, public service and doing anything for somebody else with you have kids or neighbors kids or fellow citizens and military, it does say something and we will put this up showing the earlier period. is it possible as the public learns more about what harris has done with her many decades and you can say she is ambitious and you can't say she put money first out of law school and the vast majority of graduates they go to big firms and they make money and some say they will do something else later, and some of them never do. she and obama share that and is that a good true story for her? >> yes. very much so.

i think you have seen her emphasize her biography and she did so in her convention speech. it has worked. her favorable ratings have risen by 10 points in the last month and the more people see her, the more they learn about her, the more they like her experience. they do like her. it is a huge asset she has is the democratic nominee going into the election. she has probably the most important experience anybody could ever have running for president. she is the vice president of the united states and spent three and half years prepared to be president and set on the national security council, has been a part of nearly every important decision made by the biden/harris administration. >> and, if i may say, you talk about a vice president, she was endorsed today but what i believe is one of your favorite vice presidents of all time, cheney. >> not really one of my favorite to be honest but i do have a lot of other vice

presidents i much prefer including joe biden when he was president but if you think about historically it shows how attractive the candidacy was and i remember where i was and what i was doing for the obama campaign in colorado watching colin powell indoors barack obama on a sunday morning and i do remember in 1992 one admiral william crow and the chairman of the joint chief of staff endorsed bill clinton and this is important. when you run an attractive candidacy like harris is doing, you get all kinds of people who come and support the candidate because they realize how important the stakes are and they like the candidate and they say i support you. >> it does open it up and in this cheney is very

controversial and not popular and he remains popular in parts of the mountain west and deep south, arizona, where they are in a tight race so that is all very interesting. coming up we have the harris money edge and we have new details on that and a harris campaign aide only here on the beat. >> recipes written by hand. we are now being analyzed. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. (♪♪)

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ooo, tacos! i got you. wait hold on, don't you owe me money? what?! your money is a part of your community, so your bank should be too. like, chase! cheney will be voting for kamala harris. >> cheney we heard from liz cheney today and a big development and we are joined by this. welcome. thank you for having me. >> you think about cheney being endorsed by his daughter. >> it thinks to this and what

is at stake and is literally the future of our country and what you see is a lot of people who may have supported donald trump in the past realizing how dangerous he is and we have to continue it and communicate that but these people are unusually democrat -- endorsing a democratic candidate. a former lieutenant governor jeff duncan it doesn't make you a democrat but a patriot and i think that is what we see and we see people stand up for the future of this country. >> the harris campaign has previewed some of the debate and we will be watching tuesday and she also seems to be through her aides arguing that trump isn't up to the job and is there an argument that he is too old or a visible cognitive decline? >> all of those things that are true, unfit to be president of the united states but donald trump is a pretty skilled

debater and this will be his seventh presidential debate and the most of any candidate in modern presidential history and this will be vice presidents first debate. we know donald trump is practicing harder than ever for this debate and the vice president will be prepared and come ready, but we know that donald trump will show up and he has been practicing. >> yes. we were talking about experience earlier and he has a lot more governing experience than most of the nominees when they make that first run and donald trump as you mentioned had a lot of debate and the fundraising is big and and you entered late for what we know but you made up for it and what is it mean that you have this big edge over trump? >> i would say we are pleased with our fundraising numbers and we understand the historic nature of it and interesting tidbits about this. and 1/5 of these are

independence and republicans. and if the average donation is less than $200 the largest in campaign history and the most important is the reason people are giving that and they know we need it because the future of this country is at stake but common occupations like teachers and nurses make up the bulk of people giving to this campaign because the teachers taking care of our kids know we can do better than just saying we have to get over it when there is a school shooting. the nurses that take care of us know we shouldn't be denying people with existing conditions coverage and that is donald trump's america and vice president harris has a different way of doing things and wants to bring our country into a new way forward. a new wd talk about a big deal. get two pairs of florence by mills frames for $119.95, exclusively at america's best.

trump and harris face-off in this debate and that is a former trump has previously threatened to jail his apartment -- opponent and it's illegal for any politician to

do that but donald trump has exactly continued those threats this year including his so- called revenge for his own indictments and trials and allies see her as a prosecutor who can handle any of that and she grilled one of trump's most loyal appointees, the attorney general barr about this very issue and the question was even asked by trump or white house officials to open criminal investigations of specific people which you are not supposed to do but she did draw headlines for that exact hearing and putting him on defense and he had to mince words as you can see to ultimately say he didn't know rather than just be able to see under oath, no, trump didn't ask for that, and it never happened. >> attorney general, has the president or anyone at the white house ask or suggest you open an investigation of anyone? >> i wouldn't -- >> yes or no?

>> they have not asked me to open an investigation. >> today suggested or hint? >> i don't know. >> he dodged a straight answer. he was under no so it could be a crime. he did know it was bad to admit that trump or even his team was in banding -- demanding investigations. we do know from the evidence that bill barr had two cases for an ally and even secrecy for an alleged ongoing plot and he used his power to leak it has been the findings of the mueller case and has been dismissed and the reduced jail time and that drew i should say resignations and protests from nonpartisan career doj prosecutors. this does matter. some trump's allies want to fool you with propaganda or make you as cynical as they are

. they claim nothing matters but trump can confess to anything and get away with it. the record does show something else. bill barr wanted to avoid confirming that there were any orders to help those trump aides and didn't want to put that on the record and kamala harris asked the strong question with a strong follow up and help flush that out. and others want to say they don't remember the trick he used or invoke the fifth or would rather than tell the truth about apparently things they did that were improper or illegal for donald trump? >> it was being a witness against myself. >> i don't have any recollection of this and i don't know what i meant by that. >> i don't specifically recall. >> here is the playbook. it matters for this election and the next two months. the playbook is dodge questions or lion public and delay testifying under oath or the

same lies would become a potential crime. if you have to testify, dodged by claiming you don't recall. sometimes that could be a truthful answer and sometimes there is so much evidence that becomes unbelievable or an illegal answer and if later evidence contradicts your testimony, claim it is all late and old news and even though the delays were the same they cause to begin with so you blame others for the delay so take the same probe that bill barr was spending as he discussed this with kamala harris and the mueller report busted many attempts to interfere in independent doj probes with the trump administration including then president trump asking the first 2016 campaign manager corey lewandowski to interfere and they used this playbook. first he dodged in public and only when forced under oath by mueller's prosecutors did corey

lewandowski admit and we now know this from the report, he admitted he asked him to have sessions with scrutiny. and he wanted corey lewandowski to dictate a message for him to say that he tried to use them as a cut out ghostwriter. this was a big deal and later the first time the president had asked him to take dictation and corey lewandowski's own testimony is finally honestly in that setting explained in the mueller report. so corey lewandowski did admit that the prosecutors. he also lied about it in public. it wasn't until a cross- examination at a house hearing that he had to fess up and at

times reporting that corey lewandowski confirmed in that testimony that the president had once asked him to curtail the scope of the russian investigation possibly obstructing justice. and we do have the evidence and the testimony and the receipts. admitting that contradicted the claims of corey lewandowski in an msnbc interview, which was such a big deal to house investigators that they admitted it as evidence against corey lewandowski and used it to confront him when questioning him under oath and they drew another admission which shows an matters and the trump campaign. corey lewandowski said he could be dishonest with the media. >> part of the mueller report being published in redacted form, did you ever misrepresent what you did on behalf of the president? >> i can't think of an instance when that recurred or okert. >> i don't remember the president ever asking me to get involved with jeff sessions of the department of justice. >> did you hear that, sir?

that was you on msnbc that you don't ever remember the president ever asking you to get involved with jeff sessions or the department of justice in any way, shape or form. that was not true, was it? >> i have no obligation to be honest with the media because they are just as dishonest as anyone else. >> you admitted you are not being truthful and that, correct? >> my interview? it could be interpreted anyway you like. >> you admit on national television you are lying? >> what i say if they have been inaccurate on many occasions and maybe i was inaccurate that time. >> inaccurate. he is now back to serving on trump's current campaign. he joined us last week on the beat for the first time since that hearing and that last interview. we held him accountable. in fairness we gave him a chance to address this and ask why people should believe him now. and he was completely unwilling

or unable to offer a substitute of -- a good answer. >> i have no -- >> do you admit you are stating that falsely at the time? >> here's the deal, man, if you admit under oath that you are not telling the truth the, it is relevant now and now you seem unable to address this. >> we have been down this path. that interview was almost 5 years ago. >> this is now your chance to address this. >> almost 5 years ago. that is the playbook, dodge, delay, admit it under oath if you have to do it to avoid possible jail risk and blame everybody else for your own delay and five years ago, old news. if this all sounds exhausting to deal with, it can be. that is what they want.

they want to grind everyone down. that new interview brought plenty of headlines about corey lewandowski lying again and he had to admit it under oath and he admitted under oath he does dishonest things at the media and you saw in a fair forum afforded time that other colleagues of his and other trump officials have used and it did not go as poorly as it did for him. he had no good answer. he lies. he lied again. his failed effort to deflect process headlines. fine. that is the trump playbook. others who defied going under oath and many going further than him and not participating those kind of hearings, some of them have landed in prison. donald trump spent years trying to duck testifying in that recent united states fraud case. when he lost, and started facing penalties for it, the playbook was under pressure and he had to sit under oath just

like so many of his aides. >> breaking news out of new york, a state appeals court has ruled that former president trump must testify in the civil investigation and the former president has been fighting tooth and nail to not have to testify. >> he tried to get out of it unsuccessfully. >> he spent his morning at a new york city office being deposed under oath for lawyers for the new york attorney general's team. >> that deposition and donald trump's inability to provide decent defenses under oath became evidence and a fraud trial and lost terribly and the penalty in legal fees approaching half $1 billion. hundreds of maga criminals have faced consequences as defendants in the january six cases and many trump aides and

lawyers have been indicted or convicted in multiple jurisdictions as you can see here in those cases continue through the courts. donald trump's own coup trial was delayed and complicated so pushed out now past november. we should note for accuracy that some parts of trump's playbook didn't work when he was president. deny, defy, delay, and he basically dangles pardons and used them for certain aids like roger stone and also bill barr and around that same pro we have been discussing that donald trump tried to kneecap with the help of corey lewandowski. >> if you help the president and his efforts to benefit from and downplay and obstruct the investigation and russia helping them get arrested -- elected in 2016, pardons for all of you. >> his former chairman and former political advisor roger stone. >> manafort and stone were both prosecuted by the special counsel team looking into russian election meddling. >> so what is our take away

other than the fact you have to stay on the job and be fair but also continue to do tough work and hold liars accountable? one takeaway is a mixed verdict and how america does accountability. as you can see, some of that playbook has worked. other parts of the system if they give into that exhaustion or normalization, parts of our broader society and the independent branches of government, the free press and the cynical part of the playbook could work better. i say mix because many other pages of this playbook have failed on that massive fraud penalty to corey lewandowski's public accountability to the even harsher conditions or convictions those pressed under oath and some are still awaiting trial and some of them convicted and some of them in prison. we have heard a ton about

institutions over the past few years. let me repeat something tonight that you already know. institutions are only as effective as their rules, system and the people who comprise them. again, the people who comprise them and that isn't a partisan point. you see liz cheney on the screen is a lifelong conservative republican. you see jack smith, an independent at doj and corey lewandowski frequent buyer. some of the institutions are deliberately welled off from public pressure. others are actually supposed to be answerable to the public and with everything publicly exposed and we showed a few key points, the final arbiter of this in november is you. what kinds of institutions do you demand? what would you accept as normal, as part of politics are out of bounds?

what does accountability look like? that is really up to the voters in november. we have a bit more on this after the break. the break. ellen pompeo i've never really been offered a beauty campaign when i was in my twenties or my thirties or my forties. it wasn't until

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i have no obligation to be honest with the media because they are just as dishonest as anyone else and perhaps i was inaccurate that time. >> you admit you are stating that falsely at the time? >> here is the deal, man. >> if you admit under oath you are not telling the truth, it is relevant now and now you are unable to address this. >> we have been down this path. >> this is your first time back. >> that interview was almost 5 years ago to the day to be honest with you. >> this is your chance to address this and you are not addressing this. that is fine. >> almost 5 years ago and we are joined by our msnbc analyst and what you see there? >> we were talking about this at the break , the idea that

there is a statute of limitations on line and after five years it doesn't count as a lie anymore. this is this plea authoritarian gaslighting were nothing is true and people get stuff wrong so it is all lies and equating making mistakes with intentional lying. it works sometimes and if you look at the arlington situation so an employee at arlington declined to press charges because she was scared of the trump campaign. that is called obeying and advanced and something that timothy schneider the yale professor talked about. that is what the play is to make people scared or make people obey and not ask questions and work the rest so that if they ask questions they seem partisan. >> the playbook matters because anytime you understand something you're less like lee to be tricked by it and no

different than something online and once you understand those scams there is a different part of your brain activated so political and informational inoculation is all of this. on the other hand, i don't think it is unappealing to say to somebody that that was a long time ago and the mueller think ended and we are here now and that not just targeting at the core maga audience but targeting other reasonable ears and does it matter that he wasn't just lying about some random political squabble but rather a plan hatched in the oval office dictated by him to try to illegally shutdown an independent probe of the trump administration? that is what the lie was about. >> that is an important point in this goes back to that steve bannon idea that you flood the zone with excrement and make it so there are so many stories

that a normal political observer doesn't know which one to believe and it all sounds implausible. it is impossible to see this real malice from anybody else. that is what we see here. again i thought you talked about what was important before in some way the guard rails have held and in some parts there are people like steve bannon sitting in jail right now and in some ways it has not. donald trump is used millions of dollars to run out the clock and now he is running for president just like a regular presidential candidate. >> and the institutions are made of people. there is also something that is different than certain types of lying where, because the part of the trump movement views lying as scoring points in a videogame and somebody like trump or corey lewandowski can blatantly lie but the supporters feel they are in on it so they don't feel lied to but part of the trick even if it is explained after the fact

or haphazardly. donald trump just sold out a lot of the people that went to prison for him on january six because we do have the evidence and some of them were confused. some of them thought they were freedom fighters and donald trump had actually won the election and point of fact, he lost. and now is some of them rot away in jail he gives up the game and says he knows he lost and here he was in an interview. >> i became president and the second time i got millions more votes than a got the first time and i was told that if i got 63 million, which is what i got the first time, you would win and you really couldn't not win and i got millions of more votes and lost by a whisker. >> and lost, quote. and lost. what does it mean that the lies

only moved to benefit him and again he is a pr guy and for whatever reason he thinks going into the general election is tight and better off acknowledging the reality that he lost and is one interpretation then lie about it but a lot of people in prison say, wait, they thought for years there was an actual stolen election and they were on the right side of history. >> this is an interesting move to admit he lost so close to the election. i think trump is throwing stuff at the wall because he is worried and wants to change what is happening now in the election 62 days before it happens. i think it matters and a lot of this is really dishonest for the purpose of helping trump and his dishonesty is to help trump and corey's dishonesty is to help trump. i don't know that you can change course so late on reality. a lot of people, their whole political reality is the idea that donald trump was cheated

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we begin this hour with a tale of two gop factions fighting over the future of their party. in one corner it is republicans who publicly want tr