good morning, it is sunday september 8. 58 days until election day. i'm melissa murray filling in for my friend ali velshi who's up for the day. in two days, kamala harris and donald trump will finally meet each other in person for the first time. the two candidates have never even spoken to each other before. but on tuesday night, they will go head-to-head in a 90 minute debate in philadelphia. the debate will certainly highlight the two contrasting visions for the future of the country. and as you imagine, they are preparing for the upcoming meeting in very different ways. harris has been in pittsburgh since thursday where she's doing debate prep with a little campaigning on the side. yesterday the democratic nominee visited a local spy store, where she briefly met with workers and patrons and bought seasonings. but most of her time in pittsburgh has been spent

inside a hotel where she's been huddled with a team of advisers getting ready for tuesday. harris hasn't participated in a debate since facing mike pence during the vice presidential debate four years ago but she told reporters yesterday that she's ready to face donald trump. and this morning, we are already getting word about her plans for after the debate. the vice president, her running mate tim walz, and their spouses will brainstorm the swing states beginning at her this week with harris scheduled to appear in north carolina on thursday and pennsylvania on friday. as for trump, his campaign has repeatedly said his strategy does not involve any formal debate preparation. he doesn't study, or participate in mock debates like most candidates. instead his campaign says trump holds informal policy sessions with his advisers. they also add his many campaign -related events have prepared him to debate anyone at any time.

but if the past week is any indication of how this debate prep is going, the trump team may want to rethink the strategy. when asked about his childcare policy during an event at the economic club of new york on thursday, the republican nominee gave a vague and meandering answer that was nearly two minutes long, during which he finally came to the realization that quote, childcare is child care. a day later during his remarks to the fraternal order of police in charlotte, north carolina, trump proposed that drug dealers, sex traffickers and anyone who kills a police officer should be punished with quote, a strong death penalty. and that his rally in wisconsin yesterday, he ruled out a new plan to modify the 25th amendment to make it an impeachable offense for a vice president to cover up a presidents mental incapacity. now that is obviously a base was jab at harris and biden but really it's another unserious talking point that trump resents as something he could do as president. but none of this is actual policy. it is purely clinical bluster

meant to garner attention because it is mostly a vanity campaign. trump simply repeats whatever ideas he thinks are politically convenient for him at the moment. and that can change from one hour to the next. but the candidate doesn't know what his own policies are, it actually makes it difficult for the voters to know what they are voting for her. joining me now to discuss all of this is jennifer rubin, an opinion writer for the washington post and msnbc political analyst. tom hartmann is the host of the syndicated radio program the thom hartmann show and steve bannon as producer for the rachel maddow show and msnbc political contributor . is also the author of a new brook, ministry of truth, democracy, reality and republicans were on the recent past. let's go to you first. trump announced he would be running for president again, back in november of 2022, nearly two years ago.

his campaign has been heavy on fear mongering and talks of retribution but we have had precious little about policy. and yet this is still a very close race. does policy even matter when it comes to trump, and is it a double standard since we have seen so much pressure for vice president harris to make clear and release her policies. >> trump doesn't have any policies and the notions that he says one thing and that is an indication of his policy on something is sort of absurd. he doesn't care about policy. he doesn't care about the country. this is about his own vanity. what he cares about is enacting revenge, what he cares about is punishing his perceived enemies. and yes, there is a horrific double standard. we still see these editorials, kamala harris hasn't given enough details. she ruled out a full agenda on domestic policy including child tax credits, including stimulation for the developers to increase the housing stock. she has made clear what her position on immigration is. she has a worldview on foreign

policy that is in keeping with the bipartisan consensus and you hurt today, some of your viewers may have, liz cheney says if you are a foreign- policy hockey should be backing kamala harris because she's the one who has the traditional view of american alliances. so the notion that trump even has policies is i think, a figment of the imagination on much of the press that would like to treat him like a normal candidate. he is not a normal candidate. >> tom, jennifer mentioned liz cheney. the former vice president dick cheney and liz cheney his daughter was the former congresswoman from wyoming have publicly said not only are they not voting for donald trump they are voting for kamala harris and these are politicians who likely disagree with a lot of harris and the democrat policies maybe not on foreign policy but other things. is the endorsement going to move the needle with anyone, and why are they so significant as endorsements?

>> i think there are a lot, thank you for having me, it is great to see you. i think there -- to be here with jennifer and steve. i think there are a lot of folks, kind of in the middle, low information voters, people who pay attention to sports and music throughout the year and maybe turn on the tv for what is going on with politics in the last six weeks before an election. for whom it will be very consequential. the other problem of it, that donald trump has to follow on to what melissa was saying, excuse me, what jennifer saying, is that when you're policies don't work, you have to fall back on personality. you got a whole republican policy sets, project 2025, classic republican policies, come back social security and privatize medicare, keep student debt really high, let's not have the government involved in housing, let's not have a national health care system or even got one that we

have, obamacare. these things are not popular with the american people and i think that is a real problem, too. with regard to dick cheney, i think it will have an impact and it is a bold and many ways brave move on particularly liz cheney's part. >> steve, the endorsement from the cheneys, -- not enough interviews and press conferences since becoming the nominee. again, donald trump does not say a lot about his own substantive policies during public appearances. that he sang a lot about kamala harris and whether she is putting forth her own substantive positions. is this line of attack against harris to be effective and if so, why is it effective given there so little from him on policy, as well? >> i think he's going to try to go down this road. in the short term it is true, that kamala harris is a relatively new candidate, recently received the torch

from the incumbent president. so it stands to reason that she's going to be in a position where she needs to step up on presenting an agenda but i think what jennifer said a moment ago is accurate. she's already begun to roll out an ambitious plan on housing and foreign-policy, on economic policy and i think as more voters get to see that, is going to affect the campaign dramatically because there will be contrast between a candidate who has a clear agenda, a clear vision for the future and donald trump, who has never supported unveiling any kind of blueprint for change or governing. not only this year but from previous cycles. in fact he is actively hostile toward the idea of sharing a blueprint with voters. so as that continues to unfold it is going to have a significant impact circuit is bound to have a impact on the 2024 race. >> jennifer, one of the issues that is really registering with voters, is the economy and you touched a little bit already on some of vice president harris' economic policies.

and you dry connecting or contrast rather between the economic policies of both parties and what is actually going to break through with voters. >> i think kamala harris has returned to a traditional democratic position, which is worked for the little guy, worked for the middle class and he is for the fatcats. essentially the only coherent economic policy that trump advanced is more tax cuts for rich people. and his other brainstorm is to have extremely high tariffs across the board, which not only act as an effective sales tax on the average american, but really, declaration of economic war against trading partners and a recipe for international recession. so i think in putting forth a mixture of pro growth policies such as tax incentives for small businesses, tax incentives for developers, as well as support for the middle and working-class, the child tax credit for example, a baby boom tax credit of $6000 for 1-year-

olds. she's combining i think her silicon valley background, which is progrowth, pro- entrepreneur with a traditional progressive background. and a trump is often this never never land of big tax breaks for very rich people, who -- and destructive trade policy which he justifies by misrepresenting that consumers don't pay it. so to the extent you have one policy that is coherent and is for shared prosperity and another that is incoherent and for the super rich, i think it is a pretty defining distinction between the parties. >> yeah. tom, let's give it a minute. trump is starting to spread lies about voter fraud in an election that hasn't happened yet. on your radio show you called this a big lie 2.0 but you also point out republicans have a long history of using the big

lie to attack our democracy. can you say more about what you mean by that. >> this really started in 1964. there was this widespread belief in the 1960s among republicans that jack kennedy and mayor daley had somehow stolen the election. although you look back and even if he lost illinois he would have won if there was a state where -- it might've been texas. but basically they turn this into an article of faith and 1964 they ruled out this thing called operation eagle eye, william renquist was probably the most famous advocate down in arizona. he ended up supreme court justice and this is how he got started in republican politics in the 64 -- 1964 election outside polling places and mostly hispanic communities, demanding to see proof of citizenship and scaring people away. and this was happening all over the country. in fact the "new york times" did a piece about it and put

voter fraud in quotes. that is how new the whole thing was. and now, it's become an absolute article of faith among republicans that there are immigrants pouring into the country to vote, which is literally what donald trump is claiming and many republicans, and it is not true. voter fraud is nonexistent in the united states. we are the only developed country in the world that worries about voter fraud because it doesn't happen. nobody is going to take -- risk five years in prison to cast a second ballot and no immigrant particularly one not here legally is going to go here i am, -- it doesn't happen. but it has been a convenient way to prevent people from voting, to make it harder to register to vote, we are seeing now donald trump is proposing and mike johnson is backing an effort to insert it or coney in , you must prove citizenship in order to register to vote, to impose principally on the blue states and across the country,

that they're going to use to shut down the government this fall if they don't get there way. they think it is a winning issue and we need to keep pushing back hard to say no, there ain't no such thing and let's let people vote like every other country in the world. >> steve, i'm going to let you have the last word because in addition to trying to delegitimize the election, trump is trying to delegitimize tuesday's debate. his team won the dispute about muting microphones but trump has continued to sow doubt about the fairness of the upcoming debate. what is the point of this and what will be the likely result with voters? >> donald trump has done this repeatedly, not only in this election cycle but the last election cycle suggesting joe biden would be on performance- enhancing drugs and now he's suggesting abc will read the process and kamala harris will get questions in advance. all of it is utterly ridiculous but we know why, he's pushing these lines because he knows very well this possibility he's going to lose so he has to pre- emptively delegitimize the process so he has an excuse come once a morning.

i lost the debate he will say because the process was rigged against me. we know better. facts speak for themselves. if he loses it is because he is the worst candidate. e has to compete on his own merits and performs poorly and he might very well perform poorly and it will be his fall, no analysis. >> jennifer rubin, tom hartman and steve benen, thank you for getting us started this morning. and now, quick programming note. in two days, you can join rachel maddow and the team for coverage and analysis of the first debate between vice president kamala harris and donald trump hosted by abc news. are special coverage begins at 7:00 eastern this tuesday, right here on msnbc. coming up, and post-roe americana, women are punished for seeking out abortions and needing them. i will introduce you to a woman whose life, health and fertility has been put at risk

not once, not twice but three times by the antiabortion regime in our state. race for the white house is not the only crucial election we are watching. control of congress is on a knife edge and kamala harris is set to face off against donald trump in the first presidential debate and she took over the top of the ticket. she's prepping with her team in pittsburgh and their strategy is simple, be ready for anything. we're going live to pittsburgh next. i'm melissa murray and this is velshi on msnbc. m improvement, and reduced flare—ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri.

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in just two days vice president kamala harris will face off against donald trump in the first presidential debate since she took over the top of the ticket. event will take place at the national constitution center in philadelphia at 9:00 eastern. right now, harris is in pittsburgh, pennsylvania where she's been since thursday preparing debate strategy.

according to multiple sources familiar with her preparations, she's been poring over briefing books and work shopping answers to policy questions. meanwhile this comes as harris has received multiple endorsements from prominent members of the republican party this week. most notably former congresswoman liz cheney and her father, the former vice president, dick cheney. joining me now from pittsburgh, is nbc news white house correspondent aaron gilchrest. what kind of strategy as harris working on ahead of tuesday's debate? >> i think the strategy being employed here goes down two lanes. we have seen a new ad out for the campaign today that i think speaks to one of the things the vice president is using in her debate reparation. that is -- donald trump. the vice president is using her time where she's been since thursday, essentially hunkered down inside the hotel behind me the entire time, to as you said go through these briefing books, to go through the policy q&a sessions with a handful of

close advisers here with her, looking at some of her ideas, the things she believes will help lower cost for families, the things she helps -- hopes will create more affordable housing around the country and she's digging into those policy things. at the same time trying to figure out when she's on the debate stage she will weave in her personal story into responses because she knows that there is a significant segment of the paul -- population of this country who needs to get to know who she is and what she's about aside from the policy things that she will be able to talk about. the other lane the vice president is going down with the developing strategy for the debate is how she will deal with donald trump on the debate stage. sources have told us she is preparing to respond to derogatory comments he might make to her, or sort of out loud during the course of the debate, ready to respond to those things in a couple of ways. one is with calm, being calm on

stage and reacting to him in a way that doesn't sort of drag her down a road of back-and- forth insults, rather that calmly response to him and points out his deficiencies. she says the campaign sources say she will point out when he lies on stage. she will talk about project 2025 and tied it to him. so i think that is what we can look for on the debate stage come tuesday . knowing that we are only less than 60 days away from election day. >> that is nbc's aaron gilchrest on the scene and pittsburgh, pennsylvania. thank you so much. coming up, when you ban abortion you are actually banning health care for women. after the break we will hear the story of one woman whose been suggested to the brutal consequences of post-roe america over and over and over again and what she's doing to fight back. fight back.

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we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. >> vo: schedule free mobile service at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ [instructor] hold it! hold it! hard time holding it? well always discreet absorbs up to a cup full. with up to zero wet feel and odor. so i'm not just dry, i'm jump squats level dry. we've got you, always. always discreet. should the woman be punished for having an abortion? >> look --

>> this is not something you can dodge. if you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> people in certain parts of the republican party, and conservative republicans would say yes, they should be punished. >> how about you? >> i would say it is very serious problem and it is a problem we have to decide on. >> you believe in punishment for abortion on principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah. >> that was candidate donald trump back in 2016 and it took some cornering but in the end he offered a rare moment of honesty. and that answer, while the question may have been about the legal consequences, like prosecution or fines or jail time, trumps answer that there should be some form of punishment for women who seek abortions was the unfiltered truth about antiabortion policymaking. the goal of abortion restrictions in particular, abortion bans, is in fact to punish women.

even apart from prosecution, antiabortion regimes punish women by removing bodily autonomy, denying access to health care and dismantling the established women's health care system and in that sense making abortion a crime and punishing women for it is the rare campaign promise that donald trump has actually kept. to be clear, he never delivered on the oft discussed in the structure or repealing obama care, or on building the wall and making mexico pay for it. but donald trump's three supreme court appointments created a 6-3 conservative super majority of the high court and that high court overruled roe v. wade, ushering in a rash of the crony and abortion bans in the state's, so these are promises kept indeed. and now women are being punished. not just for seeking out abortions, but for actually needing them. kaitlyn cache of austin, texas said abortion saved her life. she was pregnant with her

second child when she learned that her baby would likely not survive until birth. when she asked what solution would ensure the least suffering for her child, she was advised by doctors to quote, seek a second opinion but outside texas. she traveled to kansas for an abortion but texas arcana abortion ban and unclear exemptions were not done with kaitlyn. months later she had to pass a miscarriage without medical intervention after struggling to fill a prescription because the drug she needed to manage her miscarriage was also used for medication abortion and because of that, no pharmacy in texas would dispense it to her. kaitlyn gave birth to a daughter in 2023 but when the hospital had difficulty finding staff and equipment to provide postpartum care, she vomited, lost blood, passed out and ultimately was transferred to the intensive care unit. doctors told sure she was lucky she did not lose her uterus and future fertility. kaitlyn needed care and texas pop abortion ban made sure she couldn't get it.

summing it up, the associated press, she said quote, we have black and white laws on something that is almost always multiple shades of ray. abortion is health care. it is available, bound up with health and safety in fertility. when you ban abortion you been women's health care and punish women for being women. joining me now to discuss all of this is kaitlyn cache. she's a reproductive rights advocate and one of the plaintiffs in a lawsuit targeting texas' abortion ban. you may remember one of the other plaintiffs, amanda, shared her story on stage at the dnc. kaitlyn, i gave a rundown of your story and did i miss anything? >> no, you did a lot faster than i can sometimes. >> is a harrowing tale, and three different moments where the texas health care system could have intervened to preserve your health and it failed you each and every time. these are pro-life policies but yet don't seem to be pro-life

for the whole life. >> again, never in my wildest dreams when i started trying to have a second baby did i think i would end up here and doing things like this, and trying to talk about abortion and childbirth, ivf, miscarriage in front of people. but we have to talk about it more because it is health care. and it is being denied to women across texas, across many states with these draconian bands and it is unacceptable. >> you decided to participate in the lawsuit which was brought to challenge the exemption structure. you are challenging the abortion ban per se but were challenging the structure of exemptions which make it difficult for physicians to provide medically necessary abortions because they don't know what it options are permissible. what was the fate of the lawsuit and why did you decide to share your story that way quite >> ultimately i decided to join the lawsuit and share my story because my second pregnancy, i got a fetal diagnosis that my child would, his bones would

begin to break in utero and if the child survived to childbirth, after his bones breaking during that he would likely suffocate without extreme intervention. and while my life was not in immediate danger, my entire goal as a mother was to fix my child's pain before it could begin in the same day my doctor told me this baby, this pregnancy test, the minute it turned out positive you dream about a baby and the doctor told me this pregnancy is not viable and sent me home with my medical records and told to figure it out. so those moments, and after my miscarriages and after my daughter's birth that i realized , this isn't going to change. they don't care. they don't seem to be trying to correct these laws and make things like sumption work in doing these things and it is in the world i want my daughter growing up in. >> what happened in the

lawsuit? it went to the texas supreme court. >> it went all the way to the supreme court and in the end, we were dismissed from the final opinion, they didn't mention any of our names. they didn't give us any clarity. they pretty much that it is the doctors. they don't know what they are doing and that the law seems to be fine. and >> they made no mention of you, made no mention of your experiences and said it is all on the doctors and they should know what to do. >> they basically said it seems like the law is pretty good where it is. and the doctors -- i have seen over my journey, i've seen probably 20 types of fetal maternal specialists. i have not met a single doctor that wasn't in tears or heartbroken about the care they couldn't provide to me, but they don't know what to do. >> it is worth mentioning the texas supreme court which heard the case, and as you say, dismissed you and upheld the law, three of the justices on the word are of four election in this election cycle. texas voters have the opportunity to weigh in on whether or not they should continue on the texas high court. let me go back to the question of the state abortion policies.

these are laws intended to make women continue a pregnancy but the result as your case makes clear, is that it is impacting downstream health care for women who are pregnant. but may need not to me because of their own health. it is basically impacting maternal and infant care, not just fetal policy. do they understand this? what is the point of this in a state that ostensibly is pro- life? >> i don't think they understand and i don't think they care. after my daughter was born i had retained placenta. the standard of care is dnc to remove the tissue and the standard of care is to make sure you are having the teacher within 30 minutes of birth. i waited an hour and 49 minutes. i nearly bled out because they could not get the equipment they needed. and that was two years after sb 8 had gone into effect and they don't seem to care and they

don't seem to care about finding ways to help hospitals fix this. >> ultimately when you got the medically necessary abortion you needed, you had to do so by going to kansas to do that. what you say to women and quote unquote safe states, who think everything is fine as long as their state stays permissive or more available in terms of abortion access. are they in danger, too? >> yes, if donald trump is elected, he could pass a federal abortion ban which would supersede any state protections. so you should be concerned. you should be thinking about the future of your reproductive health, your daughter, your sixer, everyone you know because these laws are not intended to protect unborn children, they are intended to force pregnancy and force birth regardless of the situation. they are intended to make women jump through unnecessary hoops to get the medical care they need, to back empathy from courts and it is set up, we don't deserve this as women. we are human beings, we are not breeding stock. we deserve basic health care. >> kaitlyn cash, thank you for sharing your story. it is an unbelievably harrowing

experience and i am so sorry you went through this and glad you came on to tell us about it. >> thank you so much. coming up, there are 34 senate seats up for grabs this year including in a critical swing state, and former montana governor steve bolick and warmer alabama senator doug jones will talk about that down ballot races that will determine control of congress. that is all next. next.

you've got a pepto predicament, ace. you overdid it on the loaded fries and now your gut is in the gutter. undo it with pepto fast melts. so you can keep on rolling. [bowling pins knocked down] when you overdo it, undo it with pepto bismol. we have good news for the members of the tram -- velshi bookclub. season two of the podcast is on the way. the first episodes will be available september 12th on all platforms and this season ali is looking at a ton of important books from dystopian literature to memoirs and poetry. every episode will feature

insights on the books, the authors and more from ali and the velshi bans club editor. here's a small preview of the authors featured on season two. >> when people object to the book and try to ban the book, they are kind of caught because there is no explicit sex or violence. and so they take out of context, small things that they think they might find objectionable. but i think what they are really object to, and they don't know this, but it is pervasive within their reading, is that a young person has perceived the hypocrisy and corruption of the governance of the generation that has created their world. >> part of the job of a writer is to be an iconoclast, and fight back against what seems to be dishonesty.

and the chief obligation of any writer, no matter what your subject, whether it is war or politics, whatever it might be, love affairs, you are obligated to try to the best of your ability to be honest and forthright. >> book saved me in a lot of ways as i was writing it and i published it hoping to help people find a blueprint to heal, whatever it is they have gone through. >> again, season two of the velshi bans bookclub podcast drops thursday september 12, wherever you get your podcasts, and scan the qr code on your screen right now and you will be taken to it, where you can follow and listen wherever you get your podcasts. you can get early access to the first two episodes, right now if you subscribe to msnbc premium on apple podcast. you will not want to miss this. coming up, control of congress could come down to razor thin margins in key states. we will talk about those key

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our right to reproductive health care is being stolen from us. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies. we need your support now more than ever. go online, call, or scan this code, with your $19 monthly gift. and we'll send you this "care. no matter what" t-shirt. it is your right to have safe health care. that's it. go online, call, or scan right now. there is a lot that is unprecedented about the upcoming election but here is another unprecedented tidbit. if vice president harris wins, she might be the first president since george hw bush, to begin her term without control of both houses of congress. with the republican majority of

nine in the house and a two state democratic majority in the senate, control of congress is on a nice edge. and it will go down to the wire. so let's go on the senate, where the democrats have a 51- 49 majority, that is so thin that vice president harris herself has cast a tie-breaking vote more than any other vice president in u.s. history. 34 senate seats including a special election in nebraska are up for grabs this year. but democrats and independents who caucus with democrats are defending 23 of those seats including seats and swing states that will also influence the presidential election. in michigan, while trump and harris are tied at the top of the ticket, congresswoman elissa slotkin is up six points on republican mike rogers according to a cnn poll conducted in the last week of august. and as of friday, both candidates agreed to two debates, one on october 8th and

the other on october 14th. moving westward to arizona, a conservative super pac is injecting $12 million into kari lake's cash-strapped campaign. lake consistently trailed democratic congressman ruben gallego in the polls and in nevada, incumbent democratic senator jacky rosen has comfortably outperformed bp harris in nevada polls, she is up 10 points on sam brown in a recent poll. and brown, like many other republican candidates is struggling with the topic of abortion as nevadans prepare to vote on a ballot amendment that would enshrine the right to abortion in the state's constitution. but the biggest vulnerability democrats have in their quest to hold the senate, is in states that are comfortably in trump's column, montana and ohio. in montana, jon tester is facing an uphill battle to keep his seat in a state that donald trump won by 16 points in 2020. while ohio political powerhouse

sherrod brown is leading republican bernie marino and the latest polls, the key to both of these races is really three words, margin of error. joining me now to discuss the landscape for the senate, are two democrats who know how to win tough races in red states. warmer alabama senator doug jones and former governor of montana steve bullock. welcome. governor bullock, let's start with democratic senator jon tester, who is a good friend of yours. you been involved with his campaign. what does he need to do to win re-election in montana? >> look, i have known jon tester since his first day of state senate and he is the same person that he was dead. and folks, now that it is layered -- labor day, pay attention. john will be all over the state and if you think since labor day, it's been reported in the last week that -- business isn't bad straits. his statements about native

americans who make up 6% of our population. the national abortion ban, the transfer of public lands. so now what we are getting into at this point, is that senator tester will be all over the state talking to folks about why they sent him to washington, d.c. in 2006, 2012 and 2018, and he is as real as he can get --. >> to follow-up, is he going to have to run against the democratic nominee, kamala harris? he did not attend the democratic national convention in chicago and has not endorsed vice president harris. is this a winning strategy in montana which overwhelmingly goes to trump? >> in 2016 i got elected one trump won by 20 points, i won by 4. a quarter of my voters voted for donald trump. what jon tester is doing and what democrats in montana do is make it about issues about montana. all -- he has no experience in

this, is to try to nationalize the race and try to make it about washington, d.c. democrats or national democrats. people know jon tester and that is what he needs to do, focus on issues that montana's care about. >> senator jones, vice president harris has poured money into down ballot races including senate races because she knows democrats have the burden of defending the senate and keeping control of the senate in this election. what is the plan, what is the best way to keep control of the senate and perhaps expand that majority? >> first of all, you have to recognize, we absolutely have better candidates on the democratic side. up and down, whether incumbents like jon tester or sherrod brown or jacky rosen, bob casey, tammy baldwin, ruben gallego as a house member running in arizona, they are all superior candidates, running against mostly flawed candidates. and so i think fortunately the

harris/walz ticket is flush with money. they have had incredible fundraising opportunities. since she declared her candidacy. and that is going to give her opportunities to put money in the state that would not only help her, but will help those down ballot races. she knows that turnout in the down ballot races are important to now in the presidential race. so i think the campaign is feeling pretty good about this. they know it is tough for the senate but at least -- pretty bullish on where things stand. >> governor bullock, montana is one of the states that abortion will be on the ballot in november. we've seen and other states like kansas, deep red states that abortion is a winning issue when it comes to reproductive freedom. how do you expect antennas to vote on that issue and you think the abortion amendment will impact democratic turnout across the country and montana, especially? >> melissa, i do. look, republicans more or less,

-- when roe was overturned and montanans are about freedoms and personal liberties. and this will be a big driver, not only for montana but around the country because a woman's right to make her own health care decisions is on the ballot and what we have seen from president trump on down to others, is to take away those rights. so i think it will be a better day should big drivers. it is not always captured 60 days out but women and men are motivated to get out to the polls, not only for the presidential race or the senate races, but to make sure to preserve bodily economy. >> senator jones, let's pivot to the sunshine state, my home state. debbie powell is running against rick scott. is rick scott g vulnerable and should the democrats be looking at florida seriously given the is also an abortion ballot at

play as well? >> i think he's vulnerable. it is a tough seat for democrats but is there vulnerability? sure. look at what senator scott said about social security and medicare and medicaid. those are the kinds of things that drive a lot of votes in florida. the abortion initiative that is on the ballot is a very important. it will take 60% for that to be successful but it will drive turnout and i hope democrats will do more, i think you see democrats going into south florida and other places, to narrow the gap and traditionally red areas. that is the key for florida and i hope that they won't just take it for granted that it is in the red column. >> it seems like he may not be the most vulnerable senator, who is up for re-election in this term. is the most vulnerable republican ted cruz instead? >> i got to tell you, i was recently coming this past weekend, in austin for the texas tribune festival and if

you talk to people in texas they will tell you that they believe ted cruz is vulnerable. colin allred is running a great campaign. he's raising money, he is texas. he is that high school football hero that went on to college in the nfl. is been an incredible congressman. liz cheney endorsed him. at the texas tribune festival this week. he's got a lot of momentum going and i don't think ted cruz can take this race for granted by any stretch. >> governor bullock, colin allred is doing a lot to win back the role voters in texas. something democrats may need to think about across the country. what do you think that the democrats can do, to win back some of these role voters, given you have experience with this in your own state? >> we are seeing with governor walz, as well, getting out. worst of all you have to show up. you got to listen. you make it about the issues that are back in their lives. the economic issues, the making sure no matter what county you might live in, you have a fair shot at a better life.

and first, once we start showing up and talking about issues, people talk about you know, at the kitchen table or at the bar or cross the fence post, instead of making it nationalize, it does risk. you want to win areas like that. but the trick is really to lose less badly as james carville would say. and democrats now are showing up, not just the urban areas. and that is helping colin allred, it could help all kinds of folks in all kinds of areas. as well as presidential, you have seen in that campaign, that often going to western pennsylvania, to rural areas. and we will continue to see that over the next two months. >> winning strategies for winning red states, that his former alabama senator doug jones and former montana governor steve bullock. thank you both of you for joining us. that does it for me. thanks again. i'm melissa murray filling in for ali velshi. you can catch ali every saturday and sunday morning from 10:00 a.m.

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