these things happen every day across our country. we have an obligation to share this story and help other people. >> your goal was to leave the courthouse an innocent man. >> i believe looking in the eyes of that jury, seeing tears from some of them, quickly they came back, that they were declaring to me and the world that i am innocent. >> curtis lovelace, life interrupted. , life interrupted. this sunday, great expectations. vice president kamala harris and former president donald trump are set to face off on the debate stage in philadelphia in what could be a pivotal moment for both campaigns. >> donald trump wants to take our country backward.

>> this is a woman who is dangerous. >> how will the debate impact the race. steve kornacki breaks down the latest polls. plus, high school horror. >> no matter where you are, you're not safe. >> i never thought it was going to happen to me and it did. >> after a school shooting in georgia, the issue of gun violence returns to the political conversation. >> it doesn't have to be this way. >> i don't like that this is a fact of life, but if you're -- if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. and binary choices. former republican congressman liz cheney and her father dick cheney become the latest high-from file republicans to endorse kamala harris. >> there's never been an individual in our country who is as grave a threat to our democracy as donald trump is. >> my guests this morning, democratic senator rafael warnock of georgia, independent senator bernie sanders of

vermont, and republican governor doug burgum of north dakota. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news washington correspondent yamiche alcindor. lauren mayk, political reporter for nbc 10 philadelphia, republican strategist sara fagen, and ashley aid yen, former communications director to vice president harris. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." from nbc news in washington, the longest-running show in television history. this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. we are just two days away from one of the most pivotal moments of this elections so far. vice president kamala harris and former president donald trump will face off for their first debate in philadelphia tuesday night, just eight weeks before election day. >> we're run by stupid people.

stupid, stupid people. and we found that out at the debate with joe. how did that work out? and we'll find it out again on tuesday night. >> what's the one thing you want to get across to him? >> well, there's a lot. look, it's time to turn the page on the divisiveness. it's time to bring our country together, chart a new way forward. >> the vice president has been huddling with aides at a pittsburgh hotel, according to multiple sources familiar with her debate preparations. the team is expected to hold several 90-minute dress rehearsals complete with lecterns and television lighting. former president trump has held a handful of sessions so far with appointed allies, pointedly calling them policy time instead of debate prep. how will both candidates define their positions on critical issues from the economy to abortion, immigration, foreign policy and guns. it comes against a tragic backdrop. the nation is reeling after the deadliest school shooting this

year, this time in the small community of winder, georgia, where two students and two teachers were killed when a 14-year-old student opened fire according to authorities. now that student and his father have both been charge after his father gifted his son the ar-style rifle that police say was used in the attack. >> it's just outrageous that every day in our country in the united states of america that parents have to send their children to school, worried about whether or not their child will come home alive. >> i don't like this. i don't like on admit this, and i don't like that this is a fact of life, but if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize our schools are soft targets, and we've got to bolster security at our schools. >> both candidates will be pressed on that issue tuesday night. among the other key questions how will harris differentiate herself from president biden?

how will she explain shifting some policy positions? can former president trump stay on message and will he resort to personal attacks? vice president harris is getting new support from an unlikely source. >> dick cheney, your father, a beloved figure among democrats for many, many years -- would you care to share with us who he might be voting for? >> dick cheney will be voting for kamala harris. >> in a statement, former vice president dick cheney writing, quote, in our nation's 248-year history there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than donald trump. mr. trump fired back, dick cheney is an irrelevant rhino along with his daughter who lost by a relevant history in congressional races. kamala harris weighed in on saturday. >> people are exhausted by the

attempts to divide us as americans, and them stepping up and making this public statement, i think is courageous and also for the folks i was just talking with, it really reinforces for them that we love our country and we have more in common than what separates us. >> for more on where the razor-tight stands i am joined by national political correspondent steve kornacki. steve, break it all down for us. two days until the debate. where do things stand? >> kristin, two days before the debate this is what you're looking at in the seven core battleground states. you are seeing razor thin contests, and you can see less than a point, less than a point, one point, seven battleground states that we think are likely to decided electoral college and the road to 270. take a closer look here, and there are a couple of things we want to draw your attention to. first, you do notice there's one state here, wisconsin, where the margin does seem larger than the others. put a pin in that because we're going to get to that in one second. but the other aspect is when you

look at the close races particularly in the sunbelt states, it reflects how this race has changed a little bit since kamala harris has replaced joe biden as the democratic candidate. this is the diversity of the electorates in the seven core battleground states, white and non-white. you can see nationally this is what the electorate looks like. these three states, nevada, north carolina and georgia. you see the share of the electorate that's white is actually lower in these three states than it is nationally. the share of the electorate that is non-white is actually higher. one of the things that has happened since kamala harris replaced joe biden is that biden had been struggling relative to how democrats historically do with hispanic voters, with black voters, with nonwhite voters. harris has improved on biden's standing with those voters. she's not at the levels that democrats have typically run in in the past, but she's improved. so when we just showed you those close margins if these states

here, that's the source of harris' improvement. these states are looking more promising for her than they were for joe biden, but again, she's not at the level democrats typically get with non-white voters. that's something her campaign is looking at trying to boost and trying to improve. the other end of it, though, is this. look at the states, wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania with the highest shares of white voters. specifically here we'll look at blue collar white voters. white voters who don't have four-year degrees and the national average here 35%, look where wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania are in their electorates. the key here is remember, we just showed you that poll which had harris up 5.5 on average in wisconsin. wisconsin has the highest share of non-college white voters and these were the polls missed on in 2020, missed on in 2016. they undercounted, the polls did. trump's support with blue collar white voters. so when you see polls this fall particularly in a state like wisconsin, i think you put an

asterisk next to it because we saw big misses there before, and the question is are we seeing misses there again? is trump being undercounted in those states? two days before, kristen, just take a look from a wall street journal poll where the two candidates stand here in terms of the public's view. harris with an advantage on abortion of 20 points, and she's made this a centerpiece for a long time now. the economy, immigration, the israel/hamas war, and these are all trump advantages over harris, although, harris is doing better than biden had, but not where h.e.r. campaign would like her to be, kristen. >> all underscoring how high stakes tuesday night is. steve kornacki, thank you so much for joining us. >> got it. joining me now is democratic senator raphael warnock of georgia.

senator warnock, welcome back to "meet the press." >> great to be with you. good morning. >> good morning to you, senator. our thoughts are with you and everyone in the state of georgia after that horrific school shooting this week. of course, you have been in your position in the wake of other mass shootings as well. what makes this situation unique, senator, though, is the father has been charged after giving his son the winnipeg that authorities say was used this the mass shooting a year after the father was questioned by the fbi for online threats that his son was making. do you think that there is any law that could have prevented this tragedy in your state, senator? >> well, let me just say that i spent friday night with the wonderful people of winder, georgia, and i thought about it as i was sitting there and thought about my time as a student there, but it was friday night. we should have been at a high school football game with high school students cheering on their classmates. instead they were mourning their classmates and two teachers.

look, we can do better than this. we have to begin with the fact that this is a tragic form of american exceptionalism. this doesn't happen all over the world. nowhere else where you have a country that's not at war do you have this routine kind of random violence as just a part of the tragic everyday lives of people. so there are a whole range of things that need to be done, and i finding it deeply, deeply frustrating that in the wake of this we can't bring ourselves, we can't find a will to do what we americans agree on, and that's a whole range of things, but we have to start with the fact that this can't continue

and that we can fix it. >> going back to my original question, is there a specific law that you think could have prevented this tragedy when you have a case of a father gifting his son the weapon according to authorities? >> we -- listen, 14-year-olds don't need ar-15s, and we need to get these military-style weapons off the streets. 87% of americans, democrats and republicans, according to a fox news report last year, believe that we ought to have universal background checks, and still we can't even get that done in congress. listen, there is no one single law that will stop all of these tragedies. in a sense, i think we have to broaden the scope of the question, because after all, we have two mass shootings a day in our country, based on the data just last year. and this does not happen everywhere in the world. the problem is that we have politicians in our country who are beholden to the gun lobby, and either based on ambition or fear, they go to work every day doing their bidding while the gun lobby lines its pockets with the blood of our children.

i can tell you as a father that there's nothing more precious than that morning time when you -- when you walk your kid to school or drop them off, and you want to believe reasonably that a few hours later you're going to be able to pick them up, and the reality is that in america it's not safe to be in our schools. it's not safe to be in our shopping malls. it's not safe to be in a spa. it's not safe to be in a medical clinic. we're all sitting ducks, and any country that allows this to continue without putting forward just commonsense gun safety measures is a country that has, in a tragic way, lost its way. politicians need to realign

their values, and if we can't protect our children, what are we doing? >> senator, let me ask you some specific policies. in 2019 then senator harris said she would support a mandatory buyback program for weapons. her campaign told me overnight she will not push for mandatory buybacks, but has expressed support for a ban on assault weapons, background checks, red flag laws, but do you think that's a mistake? do you think she should also be supporting a mandatory buyback program? >> listen, we're not going to be able to get where we need to go without action in congress. we need to pass some laws to deal with this. now, i was heartened by the fact that two years ago we finally did a gun safety law, the safer communities act, and it was the first gun safety law we passed in 30 years. 30 years. and it was modest, but it did save lives, but clearly in the wake of what happened just the

other day in winder, georgia, is not enough, and the least we can do is move forward on the bipartisan spaces where ordinary people agree. clearly there's a disconnect between what the people, the american people want, and what they're able to get out of their government. again, 87% of americans believe in background checks and yet i hear politicians say that it's not guns who kill people, it's people who kill people and yet we don't want to know who those people are. >> yes or no, should she support the mandatory buyback program? yes or no. just a yes or no. >> look, as a pastor, i've done buyback programs, you can pick this issue or that issue, but i think, again, there's not one single thing that will make all of this go away. >> senator, let me play you something that jd vance had to say.

he made headlines this week and said the way is to focus on school security. take a look. >> you've got some states that don't have strict gun laws at all, and the states with strict gun laws have a lot of shootings, and the state without strict gun laws. so clearly, strict gun laws is not the thing that will solve this problem. what is going to solve this problem, and i really do believe this, i don't like this, i don't like it admit this. i don't like that this is a fact of life, but if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines you realize that our schools are soft targets, and we have got to bolster security at our schools. >> senator, as you know, he is expressing the opinion of a lot of folks across the country. what's your response to hearing that? >> listen, jd vance claims that this kind of random, routine carnage is a fact of life. no, it's not. it's a fact of american life. this again, is a tragic form of american exceptionalism. nowhere else in the world do you see this kind of violence.

so we have to ask ourselves. we have to engage in serious soul-searching as americans. why does this happen here? there are people who are -- are given to violence in other countries. i hate it when people malign the mentally ill because most of them are not a danger to us. they are people who are mentally sick in other countries and children that are troubled in other countries. this only happens here. it's the guns. >> senator. >> and this those who want to make this -- yes? >> let me ask you quickly. >> this is not a debate between those who believe in the second amendment and those who don't. it is to the gun lobby's advantage that this has become a culture war. it's like saying in another time that those who want seatbelts are against the freedom of being on the road. in hindsight we understand how ridiculous that argument would be. we need to put forward

reasonable gun safety laws, and that's the least we can do for our children. senator, very quickly, let me ask you about the debate. here's what donald trump has had to say about vice president harris just this week, quote, she does nothing, but talk, nothing but gripe and nothing, but complain about the terrible border and the economy and the inflation, but she's been there for three and a half years and why doesn't she fix it? presumably he'll make that argument on the debate stage. how do you think she should respond to that? >> well, listen. i don't think she's going to underestimate donald trump. after all, he's been engaged at the presidential level since 20167. i think the issue of the border she ought to ask him why is it that he killed the border deal that was ready to be passed in congress, written by a conservative republican. and yet he decided that he would rather have the issue or the election rather than solve the

issue for the american people. this is consistent with donald trump. donald trump is for donald trump, and kamala harris has spent her life working for the people. kamala harris for the people, i think that's who will show up on tuesday night. >> all right. senator warnock, thank you very much for joining us. we really appreciate it. and when we come back, former president trump is getting ready for his first matchup with vice president harris. how will he handle his new opponent? republican govern our doug burgum of north dakota joins me next.

welcome back. joining me now is republican governor doug burgum of north dakota. governor burgum, welcome back to "meet the press." >> great to be here, kristen. thank you. >> thanks so much for being here in person. we really appreciate it. i want to start off with the debate just two days away now, and i want to play you some of what we have heard recently from former president donald trump as it relates to kamala harris. take a look. >> she was a bum three weeks ago. she was a bum.

>> because she's dumb. >> that's a laugh of a person with some big problems. >> i don't have a lot of respect for her intelligence. >> i'm a better-looking person than kamala. >> she's a nasty person. >> governor, do you think that's the kind of rhetoric voters want to hear on the debate stage tuesday night? will that win him the debate? >> i think what's going to win the debate and what's going to win the election goes right back to his economic speech that he delivered in new york on thursday because the number one issue for voters across this country, whether you're a republican, democrat, or independent is the economy, and he laid out perhaps the most comprehensive economic plan that we've ever had a presidential candidate, and i called him after ward, and i said i think you just won the election with that speech because when he talked about how he would lower immigration and cut taxes including no tax on tip, no tax on social security, what he's talking about doing in terms of

controlling the border because that affects labor prices, housing costs, smarts tariffs, proamerican, progrowth, this is something that will lift up everybody, and i think the economy will be the deciding factor of this election. >> very quickly, stay away from personal attacks, do you think, governor? >> i think when he stays on the issues and policies, absolutely those are the winning issues because again, whether it's on crime, whether it's the border, whether it's israel and whether it's wars abroad, trump has the record of accomplishing peace in the world and prosperity at home and he's got policies that make a ton of sense for every american. >> let's talk about his policies. i want to ask you about some of his comments this week at the new york economic club. he was asked what legislation he would support to deal with the high cost of child care to make it more affordable. he seemed to suggest he would pay for child care by imposing robust tariffs. is that your understanding? can you help us understand what

exactly was he proposing? >> well, i think it came near the end of his speech when he was talking about the opportunity that we have with energy abundance and dominance in the country just like some states have and some countries. you take a look at norway and the countries in the middle east that have built huge sovereign wealth on their energy. we have states in america, alaska, wyoming, texas, new mexico, and north dakota, just those five states alone have built up $330 billion of endowment funds because of the way they've managed energy in those states. so he was envisioning that if we have energy dominance, and we sell energy to our friends and allies, we build up endowment funds and you can help pay for the cost of things like americans just like we do in our state. >> just to be clear, he was asked how he would pay for child care.

he'd invoke tariffs. his answer was insulting to parents because child care expenses were no big deal. was he relating or suggesting that, and, first of all, how do the two relate? >> first of all, dollars are fungible. if we have dollars coming in for tariffs going for equal and fair trade. donald trump began his negotiations with other countries on thursday. if you will tariff goods coming into your country, we will tariff yours. that's how we end up with free trade. but i think, again, when he was in office, he doubled the child tax credit, which, again, was a big lift for families, and it helped lower child poverty in the united states. so he's shown that he knows and understands that, and he certainly understands how inflation is hurting every american today, and one of the things that has gone up in price is child care. we know that in our own state.

>> governor, let me ask you because i hear you making case for tariffs, but if you look at your state, soybean farmers took a real hit when donald trump imposed his tariffs during his administration. they lost 70% of their market. do you believe, are you making the case, given that robust tariffs would be good for soybean farmers in your state and what would you say to those who say they've been decimated? >> what would be good for soybean farmers in our state is that we add value to the product before we ship it overseas because when i took office eight years ago we had zero processing plants for soybeans in our state. we have two that have been completed and a third one that is under construction that would take 75% of the crop. this fits right in with president trump's policies, which is let's bring manufacturing and processing back to the united states as opposed to us being like a colony where we just ship raw corn, raw soybeans to china. add value here. that creates jobs and it creates an additional economic value in

our state and in our country. >> let me ask you about something that former president trump posted on social media overnight. he seemed to be escalating his threat against political opponents. he said, quote, when i win, those people that cheated will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. please beeware that this legal exposure extends to lawyers, political operatives, donors, corrupt election officials. we should note there is absolutely no evidence that election workers have done anything corrupt, but do you think that it is appropriate to be threatening election workers in this way before the election? >> well, i think it speaks to a concern that americans have as we've talked about on this program before. we don't just have one election in this country. we've got elections that go across over 3,000 counties, and many of those counties have different rules, and so, again, i think what president trump is saying, we're going to have -- if we have free and fair elections, everyone's got to

follow the rules and putting people on notice, and i think this could have been a statement that could have come from the harris campaign as well because everybody is concerned in this country about making sure every election is free and fair. >> governor, a lot of those concerns are being fueled by these types of staples by former president trump, but going back to the substance of what he said, he seems to be threatening these political operatives, donors, and election officials. is that appropriate in any scenario, governor? >> i think what's appropriate is that we keep working hard as a country to make sure that we've got a belief in our elections and a trust in our elections. we've got some states that remarkably have just now this year cleaned up their voter roles and eliminating people that are no longer alive. when you take millions of people off the voter rolls. this is just commonsense, database cleanup. i've spent 30 years in tech.

you can't run a customer base when you have people that are no longer your customers and you're still sending them a ballot in this case. so i think there are a number of basic things that we can all agree on that would make sure that the elections are free and fair. >> again, i hear what you're saying about the voter rules are important, but to point out, there was no widespread fraud found in the 2020 election. it was deemed to be one of the safest and most secure in u.s. history. but let me ask you about the news coming out from one branch of the republican party. former congresswoman liz cheney and her father, former vice president dick cheney, coming out saying they are going to vote for kamala harris. here is the statement from dick cheney. he said, quote, he tried to steal the last election using lies and violence to keep himself in power after the voters had rejected him. he can never be trusted with power again. what do you say, governor, to undecided voters who might be swayed by that argument? >> well, i don't know that any of the undecideds have been swayed because former vice president cheney is not a fan of president trump, but i think --

i know you've got senator bernie sanders coming on next. i think that would be a great question for him. >> i'll ask him. >> ask him because this is, you know, the darth cheney genocidal war criminals, what democrats were calling him for decades, and now overnight they're embracing him, and so i guess i'm wondering if he'll be on the campaign trail campaigning with senator sanders. i mean, this is a season for odd couples. >> well, you know what? you took one of my questions out of my mouth coming up. we'll get to that with senator sanders. governor burgum, thank you very much for being here. >> thank you, kristen. >> great to see you as always. and when we come back, independent senator bernie sanders of vermont joins me next. r bernie sanders of vermont joins me next no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this:

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welcome back. joining me now is independent senator bernie sanders of vermont. senator sanders, welcome back to "meet the press." >> my pleasure.

>> well, it's great to have you here. i do want to dive in by talking about the economy likely to be one of the big topics at tuesday night's debate. this week, of course, as you know, vice president kamala harris unveiled more of her economic policies, which included a 28% capital gains tax for top earners. it really marks a big break from president biden who has proposed a 40% tax on top earners. of course, when you were running for president, you proposed a 60% tax on top earners. do you believe that this particular position is a mistake by vice president harris? >> well, look. this is what i believe, kristen. we live in a nation today that has more income wealth inequality than has ever existed in the history of the united states. people in the 60% of americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

the gap between the rich and the poor are growing wider. what i believe is we have to take on the greed of the billionaire class and say, yes, you know what, guys? we have 600,000 people sleeping out on the streets when people can't afford to send their kids to college. you know what? you are going to start paying your fair share of taxes. so i think dealing with the massive level of income and wealth inequality to the progressive tax system is exactly what we've got to do. >> do you believe she should go up or boost that number? double 28% is enough, or should she come up with -- should she boost this number? >> i would go higher than that. look, when you've got three people on top earning more wealth than the bottom half of american society and where billionaires pay an effective tax rate lower than truck drivers or nurses, yeah, you can substantially raise taxes on the billionaire class and the people on top, but kristen, it's not only the need for real progressive tax reform. what we have got to address is while there have been important gains economically under president biden and vice president harris, much more needs to be done.

people cannot afford the high cost of health care. elderly people cannot afford dental care despite being on medicare. so i think what the vice president needs is a strong agenda that speaks to working people that says, you know what? we are on the side of working families and we are prepared to take on the big money interests who today have so much political and economic power in our country. >> let me ask you about some of her ties to big business, top silicon valley companies and big-name venture capitalists have reportedly been in close communication with the harris campaign. i'm talking about mark cuban, linkedin co-founder hoffmann. from a practical standpoint a lot of her supporters argue those ties make sense and she's been accused of being too liberal by republicans. are you concerned at all about the ties to those big names and those top earners? >> kristen, what you're really touching on is maybe the most

important issue, and that is whether you're a democrat, republican, or independent, you should be concerned about the impact of the disastrous supreme court decision on citizens united, that today allows billionaires, whether they're elon musk and the republicans or whether they are democratic billionaires, to play a very, very outsized role in the political process. look, you have one vote. the average american has one vote, but billionaires can start a super pac and put hundreds of millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars into feeding the people they do like, and that is an oligarchy, and i hope every american says we have to get rid of citizens united and return to a nation that has one person, one vote, and not going

to billionaires. if your question is my concern about billionaire influence over the democratic party, i surely am, just as i am over the republican party. >> let me zoom out a little bit. you have described kamala harris as a progressive. she has previously supported medicare for all, now she does not. she's previously supported a ban on fracking, now she does not. these, senator, are ideas that you have campaigned on. do you think she is abandoning her progressive ideals? >> no, i don't think she's abandoning her ideals. >> no, i don't think she's abandoning her ideals. i think she's trying to be pragmatic and doing what she thinks is right in order to win the election. my own view is slightly different. i think that in america today there are a lot of people, rural people, working-class people, who no longer believe that the united states congress and government represent their interests who are dominated by big money interests. so i think that there is

something wrong personally when we are the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all of our people despite spending twice as much per capita. that is why i support medicare for all. she does not. she has another approach toward moving toward universal health care. again, on issues like expanding medicare and by expanding social security and lifting the cap on taxable income that the rich put in so we can raise social security benefits, the need to raise the minimum wage from a starvation, $7.25 minimum wage, i think if you campaign on those issues and raise questions on billionaires, you know what? she's going to win, and i think she can win big. >> let me ask you big picture, do you consider vice president kamala harris to be progressive, senator? >> i do. look, she and i -- she is not where i am, but i think, for example, when she talks about making the child tax credit

permanent -- and you know, we did that in the american rescue plan. we lowered childhood poverty by 40%. kristen, we should not have as the richest country on earth one of the highest rates of childhood poverty. when she talks about 3 million units of affordable housing, that's a big deal because we have a major housing crisis in america. you know, when she talks about passing the pro act to make it easier for workers to join unions, that's a big deal because we have to expand the union movement so the workers can get decent wages. so, yes, her views are not mine, but i do consider her progressive. >> senator, before i let you go, i have to ask you about her recent endorsements from two people who are not progressive at all. i'm talking about dick and liz cheney. this week they said they'll support her and vote for her. it's worth noting former cheney voted with trump 70% of the time. would you welcome seeing liz cheney out on the campaign trail?

>> well, kristen, what i think dick and liz cheney are saying is that in this existential moment in american history, it's not just issues. cheney and i agree on nothing, no issues, but what we do believe in is that the united states should retain its democratic foundations. and it's not just cheney. i think there is a significant number of republicans who say i may not agree with the vice president on this issue or that issue, but i cannot support somebody who is a pathological liar, somebody who fomented an insurrection to overthrow the election return. so i applaud the cheneys for their courage in defending democracy. obviously, on all of the issues we have different points of view. >> senator bernie sanders, we covered a lot of ground. thank you so much for being here on this sunday. we appreciate it. and when we come back, 50

years ago today, president gerald ford pardoned richard nixon. our "meet the press minute" is next. nixon. our "meet the press minute" is next choose acid prevention. choose nexium.

welcome back. 50 years ago today president gerald ford granted a full, free, and absolute pardon to his predecessor richard nixon. in a televised address exactly one month after nixon's resignation over the watergate scandal ford explained that the blanket pardon would cover any crimes nixon might have

committed during his presidency. democratic senator edmund muskey joined "meet the press" an hour after ford's announcement. look. >> the crimes which the president may or may not have been involved are crimes made serious particularly because it involved the presidential office. there are no comparable crimes. if, indeed, he was guilty of some of the things with which his associates have been charged, it represents a breach of political responsibility and public trust of the highest order. there is nothing higher in the american political system and it is for that reason that we must minh point the responsibility for them. when we come back, what do vice president harris and former president trump need to do to accomplish on the debate stage tuesday night? our panel is next. to duckduckgo on all your devie

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nbc news washington correspondent yamiche alcindor. lauren mayk, political reporter for nbc10 philadelphia, ashley etienne, former communications director for vice president kamala harris, and republican strategist sara fagen. thanks to all of you for being here. yamiche, i'm going to start with you. set the stage. you have been all over reporting of what is happening inside debate prep inside harris world. tell us what you have. >> sources who are familiar with how vice president harris is prepaing for the de/* dee debates tell me she is diligently getting ready for this by going to a hotel in pittsburgh with mock debates with an aide dressing like former president donald trump and an aide who did the same role for hillary clinton in 2016. she has a number of missions with this debate. the first is she really wants to

make sure that americans who are undecided or who don't know her back story that they really walk away understanding her policy stances and who she is, her biography. they are also, i am told, that she needles donald trump and that she gets him to lash out possibly, but also she wants to expose the flaws that she sees in him, which she believes that he lies profusely, that he stumbles and mumbles and mixes up information, and she wants to make sure she doesn't get pulled into any personal attacks that he might lob on her, and she wants to make sure she stays calm and gets what she wants to get across to the american people. there are people who are worried that she might be over preparing and they want to avoid a 2019 moment where tulsi gabbard was able to have an extended attack on her prosecutorial record and she wants to be ready for all attacks. >> sara, no one would accuse former president donald trump of overpreparing. he's having what are called policy discussions, and he said his preparation is out on the campaign trail. what are you anticipating?

and yamiche set the stage for what harris needs to do. what does former president trump has to do? what are you anticipating? >> i think the most important thing is to not take the bait. the harris campaign has widely broadcast that their strategy is to get under his skin and to -- and to prod him into saying something that is either insulting or sex it toward her, which i think would be a disaster for him. he needs to do when he did in the debate with joe biden. he was very calm during that debate. he talked about policy, he drew a contrast. i think the other thing he really needs to accomplish in this debate is to make the point and ask the question about which kamala harris will show up? is it the one in 2019 with the very progressive policies, decriminalizing immigration, fracking, which i know she's come out and changed her position on, banning fracking. it's censorship.

it's all manner of things. or is it the one that's been on the campaign trail for the last 30 days. >> undoubtedly she'll get a lot of questions about that, and how she answers them could determine how well she does. this was the advice from hillary clinton who said this to vice president harris in an interview, quote, she just should not be bated. she should bait him. this is part of what yamiche was getting at. he can be rattled and he does not know how to respond to substantive attacks and what do you think he'll do. what do you make of that? what do you think as someone who knows her very well? >> i think the former secretary is absolutely right. to some degree i think she will strategically needle him and force him to take her bait, but what i think the most important thing she needs to do is three things. one, get out of donald trump's way. he's going to be bombastic, petty, and small. let him be all of those things. you don't have to needle him to do that.

that's just who he is. that's yet pressure is on him is because he can't be that person anymore. in the last debate that was joe biden's worst night of his political career and donald trump walked away with no significant bump in the actual polls. the second thing she has to do is lay out a vision. her most important audience is going to be those people who don't know her, those independent voters, those disaffected republicans who will want to see her vision for the future. that's her greatest contrast against donald trump. and the third thing she'll have to do something that we've not seen moderators do yet, and that is hold him accountable to her record, and she's got to remind people of that because that will be the greatest contrast between her and him. >> will she be quick on her feet and fact check. lauryn, that takes me to you.

you are in the center of the action. you are here from philadelphia. set the stage for us. ashley's talking about those disaffected voters and you covered them in the suburbs of pennsylvania, people who are maybe not so sure, people who are still undecided. how closely are philadelphians watching all of this unfold and pennsylvanians? >> kristen, they're watching and looking ahead to the debate, although i will tell you one voters told me this past week she is exhausted from watching all of the changes that have happened over the past couple months. one of the things that i have heard from some voters is that they are looking for specifics in these debates and they want to know what the candidate will do and how it will affect them. one voter told me i think i know their ideas, i want to know their policies. i want to know how they're going to get it through congress which that's a pretty high bar there looking for in a debate. another voter told me this past week she had been undecided. we've been keeping track of her. she told me this past week she'll be voting for former president trump, but she's not sure if he will win. so she wants to know and see how kamala harris will handle herself on the debate stage, and she's really hoping that both of them can get their messages across so that voters have something substantial to make their decisions. >> it is so fascinating always

to hear what voters are saying particularly in the battleground state for pennsylvania which can decide the whole entire thing, sara. vice president harris comes into the debate tuesday night with some momentum, some new endorsements from liz cheney, from dick cheney. what do you make of this announcement? does it matter? do these endorsements carry weight and will they win over some undecideds? >> i don't think any one endorsement matters that much. i think -- there's no love lost between these families for a long time. remember, donald trump said dick cheney lied about iraq. he is the primary reason that liz cheney lost her house race. so, you know, one endorsement, no. the broader cumulative challenge for trump is that even after she dropped out of the

primary, nikki haley was garnering 15% to 20% of the republican vote. he needs to draw those folks back into the fold if he's going to win this election. so this new story about the cheneys doesn't help with that. >> lauren, in a place like the philly suburbs, do you think it could carry some weight where you have those traditional republicans, those bush and cheney and romney republicans who still do pay attention to what they are saying? >> certainly there are some republicans in the philadelphia suburbs who are voting for kamala harris. i know some of them. but there's another twist in pennsylvania that strikes me about this is that pennsylvanians also have someone else who they can point to who is making a different decision, which would be former republican senator pat toomey, who has said he is not voting for donald trump, but he's not endorsing kamala harris. he's indicated it is not a binary choice for him. so that is a different decision and they can look at that. so if endorsements sway those

nikki haley voters, you mentioned nikki haley is endorsing donald trump. >> such a fascinating report. you have new reporting for another endorsement. >> khizr khan, whose son died while fighting in iraq, he is coming out and endorsing vice president kamala harris saying he will be a campaign surrogate. he garnered a lot of attention in 2016 he delivered what really was a biden speech at the dnc, attacking donald trump. he told me now that he thinks donald trump has gotten worse. he also believes he would be a dictator if elected and he's very much excited to get his voice out and make the case for her. >> ashley, do you expect to see, whether it's mr. khan or the cheneys? >> the gop is now in total panic mode, and kamala harris is trending up in the polls and out fund-raising him by more than their 100 million and there's been talk this week about the strategy to dump trump because he's consistently maga movement and he's been underperforming. >> the swing states have closed. >> yeah. >> okay. great conversation, guys.

thank you very much. before we go, we do have a programming note. tune in to nbc and ""nbc news now"" for special coverage of the presidential debate on tuesday night with full coverage beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern. and that is all for today. thank you so much for watching. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." ♪♪ ♪♪ donald trump presents a challenge and a threat fundamentally to the republic. we see it on a daily basis, somebody who was willing to use violence in order to attempt to seize power torsion stay