hours, kamala harris and donald trump will face-off on the debate stage in philadelphia. steve kornacki is standing by to tell us where the race stands and what impact the debate may have. what is impacting the candidates about the recent polls? i will talk to a former prosecutor and cnn who moderated the last presidential debate has a new book out and she will join me as well. first, let's get you caught up in what's been happening. late today, harris touchdown of philadelphia for what will be a high-stakes first meeting with trump. now, as there always are in the eve of a big debate, there is a lot of predictions and expectation setting flying around about how this might go. including from kamala harris herself who at this to say about her opponent. >> he plays from this old and

tired playbook. there is no floor for him in terms of how low he will go. we should be prepared for that. we should be prepared for the fact is not burdened by telling the truth. and, we should be prepared for the fact that he will probably speak a lot of untruths. >> it's like her monologue was going there. we should be prepared for anything. after all, her opponent is a wannabe dictator talking about imprisoning his political opponents. we have seen this debate playbook many times before. we saw this one trump creepily lurked behind hillary lake clinton, literally stalking her. you can see if there. in a way she said made her skin crawl which many of us watching understand. we saw this moment in the first debate between trump and joe biden in 2020.

>> i'm not here to call out his lies. everyone knows he is a liar. i want to make sure dad -- spent you agreed with bernie sanders. >> there is no manifesto. >> please let him speak. >> you just lost the love. >> let your senators know. make sure you, let people know. i am not going to answer the question. >> why won't you answer the question? >> radical left. >> will you shut up, man? >> that might explained whether his campaign didn't want the microphone's muted. just like trump, we've seen harris debate before. we have an idea of how she handles opponents like with the simple but effective line during the vice presidential debate in 2020. >> this is important and i want to ask, i am speaking. i am speaking. >> i think that moment tells us she's not going to take any you know what.

mike pence is not donald trump and hillary clinton is not kamala harris. we may know the players here, but this game tomorrow night is going to be completely different. we know a few things. kamala harris will of studied her policy positions and will have gone through that with highlighters and post-it notes. she will have her opening and closing and messaging lines down pat. she will practice her attack lines. she will be ready. it is who she is and we know trump prepares a little differently. he will likely not have practiced new attack lines because he's been using the same ones for years. probably not reviewing policy because he isn't a disciplined policy guide. he will be ready because this debate is important for both of them. given all of that, there is a few things interesting to me on the eve of this debate. what is the very prepared kamala harris do when something unexpected happens? had a she handle that?

for trump, can he keep his cool? can he avoid ataxic come off as nasty and mean and avoid saying nasty and mean things. i won't hold my breath for that but we will see. i will be watching for how here's uses this debate introduce herself to the 29% of likely voters who say they need more information about her. that's a huge opportunity but means she can't attack trump the whole time. the same poll shows likely voters want a major change. for harris, that means finding a way to walk the line of embracing the success of the biden/harris administration. she was a much a part of it and send the message she will build on that in a different way. representing good change for the country, but he will try. that's the big interesting questions heading into this debate tomorrow night. what these candidates reading for the first time face to face, we should be prepared for just about anything.

i have a few people to talk about those who know a lot. a senior adviser to mitt romney 's been involved in many debate preps and neil is a former al presidential debate. first, went up go to steve kornacki at the big board. we love the big board. i want to ask you, where does the race stand now and how do some of the numbers you are seeing, how could it shape of the candidates approach tomorrow night? >> let's look at this. the big picture, nationally, this is the average of the major national polls out there right now. 47, 45 with harris with an advantage over trump. a couple things to say. this average lead for harris has ticked down a point in the last couple of days. the most recent polling nationally, "new york times" poll you were talking about the headroom slightly ahead. a pupil that had the race tied and it's gone and trump's favor

to bring it down to two points. for trump at this point in the campaign coming out of labor day heading into the final stretch for the general election. it's the third straight time is been the republican nominee for president. the last two times, he was done worse than this nationally at this point in the campaign. for democrats, this is an improvement from where things were when joe biden was a candidate. he had been trailing trump and the national bowling average through the year. it has been reversed at least it stands right now. what might be concerning for democrats when they look at that is harris had a head of steam when she first got into the race. the first few weeks leading into the democratic convention punter ahead of trump. no further progress and a tightening in the last couple of days in the national numbers. speaking of tight, these are the averages from what we call the seven core battleground states. you can see, you see harris, in

the blue and four of the -- and the bigger thing you see is how close these average martians are. have a point, 1.7. 1.5. out right type. close races most across the board in these battleground is leading by a little bit more than four points and think it's to one of the notes for all of the polling that comes out heading into the election. the polls might be off again as we saw in 2020 and 2016. the thing to remember, especially in 2020 as they were not evenly spread out across the battleground states. they were geographically and demographically specific. most dramatically in wisconsin and in michigan and to some extent pennsylvania. you saw it in places with large populations of white voters without four-year degrees in

this become a republicans constituency. even more in the age of trump and we saw that in 2020. their word double digit leads for joe biden in wisconsin polling weeks before the election. it ended up it 20,000 vote margin. the polls were picking up, the turnout in those voters was higher. it added to much closer races. wins for trump is worth considering as we get battleground polling in the coming weeks heading into election day. you mentioned this, thanks for the debate tomorrow night, but this number of from this "new york times" siena poll. a pulled up put trump slightly ahead nationally. 28%, little better than 1-4 respondents said they need to learn more about kamala harris. the number for trump a third of that in single digits. trump a known commodity. the

opportunity is there for harris potentially with that number. this is the challenge for her. the question of change versus status quo. harris is the incumbent vice president in an unpopular administration. when i ask voters, does here's represent major change? only a quarter of voters says she represents major change but 55% city she's more of the same. donald trump out of office four years, a majority in the posts a he represents major change. the harris folks look at that and say voters want to know more. this seems it's an area to position herself. can she make herself a candidate of change? there is skepticism. >> 90 minute debate. there is a lot on her plate. thank you so much. you prep candidates and a

lot has changed since your boss, mitt romney, kicked the butt of my boss, barack obama. you have a goal going in these debates. harris aides are looking at the. they want to be the change candidate. what is her goal and what is trump's goal? >> looking back at the 2012 debates was almost like watching silent era film. so much as changed. the debate dynamics have changed. the goal for harris has to be that, she got a sugar high over the last 60 days. we see this pent-up demand for somebody not named trump or named biden. she has an opportunity with these voters to fill in the gaps of what they are information flow one is. if you look at the issues that will decide the of debate, the economy, inflation, housing, cost of childcare.

those are issues where she has to take the opportunity to say here is what i will do to chart a better course for the country on those big issues. ultimately, the selections come down to fundamental questions. does this person understand the problem, people like me and to they have a plan for the future? the debate is a possibly last opportunity to fill in the blanks for a lot of those voters who, for the most part, she is a little of a empty vessel. >> people want to know more which is a good opportunity but it's hard to do any 90 minute debate. people know usa supreme court expert and is one of their favorite legal eagles but your champion debater. you help prep al gore. harris is a prosecutor and a background as a prosecutor and she's very prepared. she's thorough in her preparation. he had to be agile in these moments. how do you think, looking at

her background, what are you watching for? what do you think her background as a prosecutor will help her do and what might be a hindrance? >> trump's record against prosecutors is 0-34 and tomorrow i think it will be 0- 35. the first thing to note is the debate starts in many ways a comparative advantage for trump. it takes place in an empty auditorium. that's a familiar place to him these days, unlike harris. i think it's going to be a little hard for harris. the reason for that is, as a prosecutor, you focus on facts. i remember in high school and college debate, the heart is thing to debate is someone who doesn't believe in facts and has no respect for the truth. every time trump speaks, it's like the facts go on vacation. harris has to fact check him like it's a contact sport. this, for her the goal is, it's

not about trump but with the moderators. i know you have done a an in a moment and i have respect for anyone who volunteers for that role but the moderators often lead trump slide by with lie after lie. they don't ask the hard questions. trump called for mass arrests over the weekend. will they come up? it typically doesn't. i want the vice president to turn to the moderators and look at them and say, why are you -- why aren't you asking these questions? why are you letting him get away with this? it's about the moderators and how she comes off at the end. >> it's very tricky because part of this is for people at home who don't know a lot about you to think you are tough but also likable. i hate that word but it's true. is a candidate running for president. if you are harris, due fact check? do you skip it over?

what do you do in those moments? >> i agree to some of his bones but the most important thing to remember is you're talking to the people back home who have to make up their mind. i don't think they will judge this performance on whether you are parrying the moderator responsibility against donald trump. if i were to have two points, attributes i would attached every answer if i were kamala harris, it would be personalized and localized. sing costs and childcare. talk about that. localize it. talk about it through, steve kornacki pointed out, it's coming down to pennsylvania, wisconsin. spent seven states. >> tell the story what you will do through the experiences of swing voters out there. i've yet to make up their mind. help make up their minds by, the most important thing, forget likability.

it's important but related ability. >> that is a better word. >> they want to know this person understands the problems for people like me. if you can achieve that, you have achieved your goal. >> you want people to think we are fighting for you. thank you so much. coming up, she will join me live in the studio. she has a new book. donald trump is threatening to imprison his opponents if he wins in november. not making that up. adam schiff is standing by enjoins me. enjoins me.

it's one thing to read the crazy and another to hear the crazy. i want to read this. here it goes. cease and desist. i, together with many attorneys and legal scholars and watching the sanctity of the 2024

residential election closely because i know better than most the rampant cheating and skulduggery that is taken place by the democrats in the 2020 presidential election. it was a disgrace to the nation and the 2024 election where votes have started being cast will be under the closest professional scrutiny and when i win, those people the cheater will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law which will include long-term risen sentences so this depravity of justice does not happen again. we can't let our country devolve into a third world nation and we want. be aware this extends to lawyers, political operatives, donors, legal voters and election officials. those involved in unscrupulous behavior will be caught and prosecuted at levels never seen before in the country. i read that because that's the republican nominee for president. showing a threat not just against political opponents but against the very people who administer free and fair elections in this country.

joining me as democratic congressman adam schiff. he's a candidate for the u.s. senate. i know it sounds dramatic to read that but it's important for people to hear. and understand what's going on in his mind. the restrained things in that posed including donors. i'm not sure who he is targeting. he goes directly after election officials. people who administer the elections, as you know and have talked about. is problems recruiting. people are dropping out. we need that for elections to take place. how -- is no consequences for trump, so how do we combat this? >> he is doing a couple of things. first of all, it starts out the, quote, with the big lie. i am going to lie about the last election so here i go. the second thing is he says i will lie about the upcoming election. if i somehow succeed, i am going to go after ev fair election. if they get in my way i will go after them. this is not an idle threat.

if we think back to ruby freeman and shane moss, the election workers in georgia who had their lives turned upside down and had to endure death threats and leave the run homes. had to set aside their own business. he ruined their lives at that time. i remember the testimony vividly of one of the witnesses talking about, do you know what it's like when the most powerful man comes after you? he is trying to intimidate the local election officials. he and steve bannon and the rest of those enablers are trying to see the local election boards with the maga election deniers to begin with. the threat has to be taken seriously. the other element is, look at me, america. i will say something crazy again because kamala harris is getting too much attention. it is a plea for our attention.

>> the department of justice, they formed a task force which is a good thing. but only 20 people, there's only been charges filed against 20 people against the thousands who have been of fall. is that too little? what do you wish would be happening right now from the federal government? >> the biggest disappointment for me as they failed to hold donald trump accountable. it took too long to go after those who organize the january 6 attack and by the time they did, the courts played into trump's delays and that, the supreme court with a terrible immunity decision. the justice department tried to go after some of these local election deniers. those in real time trying to as the election or compromise election equipment. they have been diligent about

that. the final disappointment was the delay in sentencing in new york. we could at least point to one state that got it right and did not delay, but now even that has been denied. justice has been delayed and tonight before the election. i think it's a serious indictment of our system that it gave trump such a different standard than it would give any other ordinary defendant. they should've got the same treatment but he got preferential treatment from the highest court in the land and florida with judge cannon, preferential treatment from the lowest federal court in the land. >> because you said you were disappointed, the november 26th date could be in the middle of a period of time appears when ski where trump is challenging the outcome and trying to stir up support for that. do you worry about that time line?

>> i worry about that for the reason you mentioned and i worry because the supreme court showed every willingness to interfere in any prosecution of donald trump. when the supreme court and that immunity decision said what a president says or does in his official responsibility can't be used as evidence against him even at trial, personal conduct. that was the supreme court's way of reaching into the new york case and trying to mess with that. i worry from the perspective that he may successfully appeal and once again delay or deny justice. we all have to be concerned with that period of time between the election and when the joint session of congress meets because, if it's a close election and maybe if it is not a close election, trump has more reason to contest the results. not because of a problem in the system but because not in a pos make it go away, he may go to

jail. that means, for him, any limits are off. he will use whatever device, like, cheat, employee violence or encourage it, so we have to be concerned with that prospect. the best thing we can all do because there's no clear legal remedy with this reactionary partisan supreme court is make sure the election result is not close. that we turn every eligible voter out and kamala harris has a commanding win. >> i don't know if you heard there's a debate tomorrow. you and the vice president were prosecutors around the same time in california. what do you think that background means for how she will approach a debate with donald trump tomorrow night? >> i think she will be quick on her feet. she will know the facts and be able to marshal the facts in support of her argument. the challenge for the vice president is twofold. one, sometimes knowing the

facts too well gets in the way of giving the broader vision. letting people get to know you and seeing the more human side of you. you are at risk of coming across with a laundry list of facts and that's not what people are looking for. the other challenges the bar for her is so much higher because the bar for trump is so low. he will lie and bluster. he will be trump. because people don't expect better and they won't expect better of him, but it's an opportunity for kamala to show her human side and at the same time she has to hold him accountable for his lies. to show a sense of humor if the questions yield to that. and, to put him in his place if he is being obnoxious. that's a lot to accomplish. >> i wouldn't be able to sleep tonight if i were her but

that's why she is running for president. it's always great to see you. and election offended by violence and complaints of corruption that pushed democracy to its breaking point. my friend dana bash is here to talk about her book and the debate. debate.

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getting them out will be a

bloody story. should've never been allowed to come in our country. if you come back, you will be executed. you will be killed immediately. it won't be easy but we will do it. >> that was trump over the weekend that has mass deportation policy will be bloody. it's far from the first time he slipped shades of violent rhetoric in his speeches. with 57 days to go and one of the two candidates continuing to say things like that, found a new book from dana bash timely. history repeats. it tells the story of an election the candidates complained of corruption of violence broke out and democracy was pushed to its breaking point. sounds familiar. it's not about 2020. it is about 1872. joining me as dana bash. the co-author of the new book america's deadliest election.

the cautionary tale of the most violent election in american history. i have no earthly clue how you had time to write a book. >> david fisher. i was the co-author. >> it's an interesting comparison. people don't know about it. >> louisiana gubernatorial election but there's a lot of parallels. there was violent rhetoric. there was violence. the country was bitterly divided. election officials were not giving up the outcome. they want observing the outcome. you have covered trump for many years. did you here language like this weekend or the violent rhetoric you hear from him more often than infrequently? does it remind you of 1872? >> oh, yeah. the parallels are uncanny in so many ways. one of the ways is with the

main character who was the governor of louisiana who was somebody who had character traits who are so familiar. i will read a couple of examples. people knew he was a crook but remained fiercely loyal to him. it appeared they were willing to die or kill for him. the question was why? they for gave him all of that. he understood them and touched a part of them that only few others had reached. he was fighting for them. the way of life they had once lived. back then, the way of life was, it was pre-civil war when slavery was very much in place. now, but he was helping them fight for at that point was, slavery was not going to come back what they wanted to make sure that blacks didn't get

power and change their way of life. back then, was democrats who were the segregationists and flat-out racist. they were trying to do what they could to suppress the vote. the new black vote. in louisiana and other states but this particular story is how they were successful. they realized the only way to keep society from changing so drastically was to make sure that blacks didn't vote and they were intimidated. they were threatened. they were disenfranchised and murdered in some cases in a massacre. >> there are so many racial comparisons that you outline to present-day. voter suppression around the country. you answered it a bit but how do you look at those comparisons in terms of how rhetoric is used to suppress the vote, intimidate people, to make immigrants sound like they are bringing violence to our

country. how do you compare this time to there were discussions about people coming from the southern border back then just as they are now. it started in 1872 then went up to 1876 which people might be more familiar with because of the parallels there between what happened and 2021 when things were so bad in louisiana and three other states that they said two slates of electors to washington. there was a debate about what the vice president's role was. was is something that is more ceremonial? or could the vice president choose the electoral slates? they decided then it was ceremonial. another familiar thing that happened back then? one of the riots in the streets of new orleans erupted in chance, hang him. hang him. about the opponent they were

trying to stage a coup against. the rightly elected governor. >> that's debate ended the one interview with the presidential, vice presidential candidates. you know a lot about these people is my point. neal katyal was on and he's a great friend and good lawyer. he made a point that i hear from people, people when you go to events, why can't the moderators two more to fact check? trump is a different character. shouldn't things change? with trump as a candidate? >> i think neil is brilliant and i have so much respect for him. the statement he made to you, i disagree. what he said was, it's the moderator's job to be a participant in the debate. i totally agree when i'm doing an interview. i completely agree when i am moderating a town hall.

when the person who is trying to be an elected official doesn't have their competitor there. if a moderator gets that involved in a debate, they are a participant in the debate. look, all of this is a judgment call. it is not easy. it's a judgment call. what we decided to do was follow the model that had been in place since kennedy and nixon which is the moderators facilitate. you allow the candidates to debate one another and in that case, the fact check one another. i was talking to kevin who worked for mitt romney about this afterwards. he said, it's a slippery slope. some people are against it and some are for it. i tried to put myself in the

position of, let's say what happened when we do fact check, where does it end? how far does it go? they are judgment calls. i'm not saying it's not possible. it's difficult and you can be sure who people who say fact check now or maybe the other side depending on how it goes who is telling the falsehood will say, the moderator had their thumb on the scale. we know what happens in a trump debate. i'm not saying it's going to be equitable but it doesn't make it easy. >> very few people of said in that seat which is the other thing to remember. you said to expect anything and everything tomorrow night and i could not agree more. they've never met in person. that's so weird. dana bash, could talk to you forever. you have this amazing book. i don't know how you had time for doing it. j.d. vance and is boss jump in the

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waiting in a body of water cuddling a duck and kitten. the text reads, quote, protect our ducks and kittens in ohio. you may be wondering, what is happening to ducks and kittens in ohio and what does donald trump have to do with it? settle in. over the weekend, a popular right-wing account shared a facebook post from a page called springfield, ohio, crime and information. the facebook user issued a warning to all about our beloved pets including a story about a neighbor whose daughter's friend had lost her cat. that's out word accusation, one day she came home from work. as soon as she stepped out of her car, look toward the neighbor's house where haitians live and saw her cat hanging from a branch like you do a deer for butchering. they were carving it up to eat. that insane story spread like wildfire thanks to posts like

this one from senator ted cruz who shared this two kitten saying please vote for trump so patient immigrants don't eat coast. elon musk share this of bart and lisa simpson morning their cat with the caption, ohio right now. of course, republican vice presidential candidate j.d. vance piled on accusing, quote, haitian illegal immigrants of causing chaos all over springfield, ohio. eventually, the conspiracy made its way all the way to campaig account. if my tone hasn't made this clear, this is a complete lie. don't take it from me. this is a statement given to nbc news from the springfield police force. have been no credible reports or specific claims of pets being harmed, injured, or abused by individuals within the immigrant community. the springfield noted that 175 miles away from there, there

was reportedly a bizarre incident of one woman who was charged with cruelty to companion animals for allegedly killing and eating a cat. there is no evidence she is an immigrant and she was now living in springfield and that crazy story hardly warrants a claim that vice president harris and immigrants are to kill your pets. not only is this right-wing conspiracy theory totally false and completely xenophobic but it's not helping the perception out there that j.d. vance, donald trump, and the rest of their party or plain weird. >> have you ever considered -- safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free and if you call today, you'll also receive 15% off your entire order. now you can enjoy the best of both worlds! the therapeutic benefits of a warm, soothing bath that can help increase mobility, relieve pain, boost energy, and even improve sleep!

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with 57 days to go until november 5, and without a single vote counted, trump is already claiming there's been massive fraud in the 2024 election.

earlier today he posted this test truth social account, quote, an interview tucker carlson of an election 20% of mail-in ballots in pennsylvania fraudulent. here we go ag republican party apparatus from running their election lie playbook again. the democrats are much more prepared this time around. joining me, the campaign manager for barack obama's 2012 election campaign and he's the chair of a new pack called democracy defenders that was launched a combat trump's election lies. it's great to see you. let me ask about this. it sounds like you are looking into what happens after the election but you are laying the groundwork now. we see what trump is doing. what are you doing and how is it different from what happened in 2020 and what democrats did in 2020?

>> first of all, behalf of my two dogs and cats, thank you for clarifying that no one will eat dogs and cats on the campaign we're talking about this 57 days out but is probably good for the democrats. >> harris is not going to come after your hats and bring immigrants to eat them. >> what is happening out there in the 57 days left is the republicans filed over 100 lawsuits, contesting everything from mail-in ballots in michigan and embed a. are trying to kick up photos from the voting rolls. they are taking 2020 and putting it on steroids. we were forced to build this pac to get ready for what is coming. fight these lawsuits happening in the next 57 days, and second, get ready for some of these outlandish challenges.

as you know, and a couple of states including michigan, some local elected officials have been threatening not to certify the elections if trump wins. we have to be ready for this in a way that in 2020, the biden campaign did a great job. the republicans are putting it on steroids so we have to be ready for what will occur on election day and after. >> this is hard to believe but nearly 70% of republicans still believe in the big lie that the 2020 election was stolen from him. how do you deal with that? do you try to combat that or do you think we have to protect voters, protect election officials, be prepared? >> you have to combat it. as you know, the problem is voters look at this and think, it might be hard to vote and maybe you should not go on election day. maybe there will be protests and i don't want to deal with it. you have to assure people that

the process is okay and push back against this crazy stuff. it is crazy, and weird that every day the trump campaign is having rallies and every night trump is saying don't do early vote because 20% of them are fraudulent. they can decide what their message is and their candidate, as always, is blowing up their message. it could be voters get confused so we cannot assume anything. my superpowers to be suprarenal unlocked on every detail. we will lock down these so people understand their rights to vote and what will happen on election day. >> we love that aspect of you. you manage the 2012 campaign and you know what it's like when your candidate bombs as in the first debate which we all remember, and when they do well. debates are about taking

advantage of them, and dry contrast. what is the most important thing for kamala harris to do tomorrow night? if you were managing the campaign right now? >> i would say what they are saying which is passed the commander-in-chief test. you remember after the first mccain debate, it was over because people looked at barack obama that he could be president . the other thing i would say is trump is the best counter punter i've ever seen in american politics, and he will try to throw you off your game. the only thing he can do is pull you down. continued to tell the american people what you're going to do to make their lives better. that is what she has done these first amazing seven weeks of the campaign. that's what she did in her democratic national convention speech. if we come out tomorrow night with that having been what she was able to do, i will be buying the neighborhood bar. >> watch out everyone at the neighborhood bar. it's always great to see you. thank you for sharing about the pac.

pac.

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a quick reminder. tomorrow night i'll be at the big table with rachel and the whole gang for special coverage and analysis of the presidential debate hosted by abc news that begins tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. that does it for me tonight. the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> the table isn't that big. it's a middling table, awkwardly shaped. >> it would be quite a thanksgiving dinner there. >> that's true. having been in the mix for so many debates and different ways who have worked, are you looking forward to it or are you bracing yourself? >> both. i can't stop thinking about the fact they've never met in person. there's so many dynamics to that. i also, as a fellow proper, i

admire that about the vice president but it means you need to be prepared and agile. it will be interesting to watch. how does she deal with the trump of it all? racing and interested. how about you? >> i feel like coming out of the most consequential president debate that's ever happened in u.s. history, playing the odds means it should be a normal one. >> boring maybe. >> nothing about this campaign is boring or normal. i think we are ready for everything. ready for anything. ything. a long night. >> and coffee. but ready for everything is right. we don't know what's going to happen. i'll see you tomorrow. >> thank you very much, jen. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. super happy to have you here. it is september 9th today. so you know what that means. obviously, it means happy