it is great to be with you. i'm annika cabrera along with my colleague and friend, jose diaz-balart, live from philadelphia this afternoon. just six hours from now, vice

president kamala harris and former president donald trump will take the debate stage here in philly for their first face-to-face meeting in fact, ever, giving voters a fresh look at the race after an historic few weeks. >> for vice president harris, these 90 minutes on stage could be the biggest of her political career so far, her largest audience. a chance to drive a contrast between her and donald trump directly to his face, and define who she is for viewers. it's an opening to once again boost the enthusiasm after a new round of polling this week shows her honeymoon phase could be stalling. in other words, a tall order. so how is she going to do it? >> and how will donald trump do it. after failing to land an effective attack line against her, we'll have some insight on the possible strategy he'll be leaning into tonight. what trump told our own garrett

haake about the challenges that he says he's ready for when he faces the vice president on that debate stage. >> and how recent polling shows he has a chance to position himself as a change candidate that the voters are so hungry for. his tactics, what he could be doing tonight. it's a big day with a whole lot to cover. joining us now, monica alba, garrett haake, and senior writer at the dispatch, david drucker. monica, let's start with you. vice president harris has been preparing for this. what has she been focusing on and what does that preparation look like? >> it was really extensive over the last couple of days and weeks. she went into full debate camp mode with her allies and advisers. she was in a hotel in pittsburgh doing mock sessions. she had somebody who in 2016 played donald trump when hillary clinton was preparing for those debates do the same for her this round. he was wearing the full navy suit, red tie, had the lifts, was really, truly, in trump mode, so she could get you'd to

that, because as you mentioned, she's never met him in person before. she completely wanted to familiarize herself with everything he said rhetorically, in a sports sense, she watched all the game films, all the debates that are available that donald trump has participated in, because he's done so many, and they're really preparing for a moment that could be personnel, where there could be these attacks lobbed at her and in terms of the substance and policy, right to drill down on a place where they could talk about her economic proposals and idea and rye to communicate that to the american people, who may still have a lot of questions about where she stand on certain issues. they feel like, they've heard a little bit about the vice president over the last three and a half years. she has been at the president's side, but really, what is she going to do to try to stand out? that will be her bar for tonight. she did just do walk-through at the venue, so she got to see where she will be tonight, when she does come face-to-face for the first time with donald trump. and we're all watching and waiting to see, are they going to shake hands? is there going to be that kind

of a moment between the two of them. we haven't seen that before. that will be something to watch for. >> that leading up to the debate. also leading up to the debate, we saw her campaign drop this new add, that uses a portion of former president obama's speech from the dnc. let's take a look at some of that. >> here's a 78-year-old billionaire who has not stopped whining about his problems. >> oh, she had a big crowd, oh,. >> this weird obsession with crowd sizes. it just goes on and on and on. >> everybody knows, by now, that crowd size is something that is really important to donald trump, and so that meant to be a dig, and get him fired up for this debate. monica, do you think that harris is planning to go there tonight? >> there's a theme here. and i think everything they've done leading up to tonight indicates that the word of the day for the harris campaign is troll. they want to be able to try to

needle him and provoke him, potentially, before they even get on the debate stage. that's why they have that new ad today, why they have billboards all across philadelphia that are poking at that fun, in terms of his obsession with crowd size. they're trying to also bring people who used to work for donald trump to the debate tonight, in anthony scaramucci and elizabeth troy, who have since become very outspoken critics. so no surprise, but the fact that they are the guests for the spin room, this takes a page out of the donald trump playbook in a way and trying to use that against him. will that be a successful tactic, we'll see, but something they're trying to do thematically. >> so garrett, you spoke with donald trump. he is not known for maybe having the thickest of skin when it comes to these kinds of issues. what has his preparation been like and what'd you learn about him today? >> there couldn't be more contrast in the preparation that these two sides have been doing donald trump's debate camp has

been anything but debate camp. it was very informal, in some cases sitting around at mar-a-lago talking through policy positions. i'm told he didn't really start to drill down and take it particularly seriously until the last couple days. when i spoke to him this morning, he was in a great mood. i don't think he's been needled specifically yet from the harris campaign perspective, and he's not even on the ground until 6:30 this evening. he'll arrive, come straight here, and get started. he told me he thinks the biggest challenge in debating harris is that she has changed so many of her policy positions over the year. i trip over that, because that's the criticism of trump, of course, that he's changed his policies so much. the campaign's solution to that problem is to say, they're basically going to focus on whatever they think the most liberal or progressive or outside political mainstream position she has taken on any given issue with, and say that is her position now, and say, that's what she really believes now. don't listen to what she's saying on the campaign stage. that's how the campaign wants to

approach this. but as with all things trump, what the campaign strategy is and trump's execution is on the debate stage, no one can say for sure what the delta will be between the two until we get there. >> you wrote about possible execution and what it would mean for each of these candidates to have a win or a successful debate night. and you write about trump, specifically. success equals pretending to be someone he's not for 90 minutes. in other words, he needs to be empathetic, gracious, measured, accepting that he was fairly and legitimately ousted by biden four years ago. you say, trump's been sort of mediocre in debate set education against democrats. tell us more about how you see it? >> trump against republicans has been a wrecking machine. no one has been able to deal with him. even though he didn't debate in this past primary season, his record against republicans in 2016 is pretty unmatched. his record against democrats is mixed. he did okay against hillary clinton, especially for a first-time general election candidate, but she was almost universally disliked and

extremely well-known, all right? so people already knew what they felt about her and she didn't really have an opportunity to change minds. against president biden four years ago, in that first debate, he was so insufferable, that's how voters felt about him -- >> constantly interrupting, like i'm doing with you right now. >> single-handedly contributed to his defeat, as close as that race was. of course, this year, a much different trump. so who's going to show up? but one thing to note, he's now going to have done this seven times as a general election candidate, more than any presidential nominee of a major party in modern history. this will be the vice president's first time as her party's nominee debating. and so, i'd anticipate she needs to get her feet wet, needs to get her bearings, as sharp as she is, as successful as a lawyer as she was, and so the question is going to be, who's going to speak to the voter and use their opponent as a prop?

look, i want these candidates to talk to me as a journalist, but the truth is, strategically, the voters want these candidates to talk to them. you ignore the moderator, almost ignore your opponent, except when you can't, and talk to the voter. if they get caught up with each other, that's not a good night for either of them. and what the vice president needs is to make a favorable first impression. 56 days before an election, you usually don't have that opportunity. polling shows us that people are open to voting for her, but they need to know more. she has to fill that gap before trump does. >> and garrett, talk about polling. a new round of polling from "the new york times" and siena college shows 25% see harris as a change candidate versus 53% who see trump that way. how does he plan to capitalize on that? >> this is a huge opening for donald trump. so many of our last elections have been change-focused elections. we've seen houses of congress flip, we've seen the president flip back and forth. polling tells us over and over again, people want that change. he's the former president, but

he's not the current incumbent. and trump can harness the idea that he will bring change, as david pointed out. he can be a wrecking ball. that is change of a certain type. whether it's the change people want or not is a different question. that's a huge opportunity, i will bring that change that you want. keep it focused on the voters, not focused on trump. >> the risk potentially being that he could remind voters about what was that turned them off when he was president, when you talk about the wrecking ball, trump showing up. monica alba, garrett haake, david drucker, thank you so much. and joining us now, former chief spokesperson for kamala harris, symone sanders townsend, and michael steele, both are co-hosts of msnbc's "the weekend." michael, we know the stakes are high for both of these candidates tonight. what do you think will constitute a win on either side? >> surviving.

it's just surviving. you know, it is -- >> that's a low bar. >> it's going to be a slog. it's going to be a slog. i think you've got an asymmetrical person on the stage in the form of donald trump against a measured, competent pulled-together prosecutor, who wants to be president. and i think for kamala harris, the opportunity to show she's got presidential chops will be important throughout. i want to go back to something that david drucker said, they appreciate the point about donald trump having been in a presidential debate seven times. but i'm sorry, donald trump has never debated anybody. donald trump has performed. donald trump has thrown names at people. he's said incoherent -- made incoherent statements that have not been challenged. he has shown himself to be that wrecking ball. and i suspect that there will be

a -- there will be some resistance to that my his campaign, but whether he resists that on that stage will remain to be seen. i think for her, it's a matter of how she avoids the wrecking ball. and in fact, you know, put on her superwoman chops and sort of push that ball back in his direction and see if anything lands. but i think kamala, you know, a lot of people say, well, she has a lot to lose and that the pressure is on her. yeah, there is that. but i think the pressure is also on donald trump, because he was a former president, who, you know, was president during covid, and failed at that. that brought on the recession by spending $8 trillion. so he's going to have to account for some things, too. and that's why tonight is going to be an interesting slog through that debate. >> yeah, i mean, that wrecking ball, who's going to be miley

cyrus, but 77% of american adults say they're going to be watching tonight. one thing we have seen from recent polling is voters still want to know more about vice president harris and who she is. how does she accomplish that? >> look, jose, i love the chairman. he encapsulates many of the thoughts that i have. she has to do this at every single turn on the debate stage. but we have got an preview of how she's going to do this from what she's said on the campaign trail. it is true, vice president harris and donald trump have never met, because after he incited the violent mob that attempted to disrupt the peaceful certification of the ballots, he declined to attend the inauguration, unlike vice president pence. but you've heard her say, you know president trump's type. when she talks about taking on fraudsters, she tells you who they've defrauded and why it was important to them to take them

on. and then ties it to donald trump. when she talks about cheaters, she connects to it donald trump, but talks about how she confronted this in her own life. she talks about taking on the cartels, in her own professional life. she's weaving in her professional bio. and that is going to be critical for the voters saying, i don't really know what the vice president does. she has to talk about what she's done as vice president. she can't just live in the vice presidential box, because she has an entire career, obviously, where she has done some really key work, taking on the cartels. the border is something that i think that donald trump, his campaign would like to see the former president attack her on, on that debate stage. so she has, yes, work she's done as vice president, but work she's done prior to that. all of that will be key, while also deciding when, how, and if he would like to respond to the former vice president, if he attacks her. >> and michael, as monica was billboards and ads.

and we've learned that some of his former officials from the white house are among those who will be here in this spin room, as harris surrogates. what do you make of that strategy and approach? >> i love the trolling. troll the trollster. why not? i love that aggressive nature, in what kamala harris' campaign has brought to this game. you cannot play a straight line political strategy with donald trump. you have to understand and appreciate what his weaknesses are, because they are legion. his weaknesses are legion, starting with himself. before you even get to what he says and what his policies have been, such as they were. so, yes, i appreciate that, having olivia troy there, someone who's out of his national security apparatus, to fact check and correct the lie as that will come out about what he did do or didn't do as president on foreign policy

issues. having scaramucci there. someone who not only knows him from his 11 days as his chief comes person, but knows him in business. knows him from the new york scene. and having him there to troll the trollster. i love it. more of it, please! and serve it up with whipped cream, why don't you. because it's about time that people expose this guy for the fraud that he is. and remind americans, you fired him for a reason. you did not give him a second term for a reason. and it goes exactly, exactly to what symone said about what happened on january 6th. >> yeah, and symone, just thinking on the issue, about, for example, immigration, and the fact that trump has been hitting on the issue was a failed border czar, which is not the title she had, but she was tasked with looking into the root causes of migration.

and i'm just wondering, is there ever going to be a time when that issue, for example, maybe a deep dive into the root causes of migration, what's happening in venezuela, what's happening in cuba and in nicaragua, honduras is having some major changes. is there any chance that any kind of serious policy will be discussed, do you think, symone? >> i mean, jose, a girl can hope, but i won't hold my breath. this to me is all the more reason why both of the campaigns need to give nbc a debate so jose can be one of the moderators and we can get those questions. that's my pitch for the people right here. >> hear, hear! >> the root cause of migration is absolutely very key. given what's happening in venezuela, one of the places where people are coming to the southern -- to the u.s./mexico southern border the most, is, in fact, venezuela. this was prior to the most recent turmoil with the election and maduro not accepting the results of the people. and so, if i were advising the vice president, i would say that that's a way to weave and work

that. but there's a lot to happen in these 90 minutes. this immigration is not an issue that's going away. hopefully we will see another presidential debate. and hopefully we'll see the candidates do interviews and what not. it would be a dereliction of duty if immigration and the root causes of immigration do not come up at this debate. it's not just what's happening at the border. border crossings, by the way, are down. most of the reason they're down is because mexico is now enforcing its border with guatemala. you know who got them to do that with a little diplomacy? kamala harris. >> symone sanders, michael steele, the four of us should have that opportunity to sit down with these candidates and have a little debate. >> let's do it! >> how about on the weekend? >> that would be fun! >> anyway, thanks, guys. still ahead, why pennsylvania, the host of tonight's debate, matters so much to both sides and what pennsylvanians are looking for in a president. we'll ask a couple of natives right after the break. and then we'll turn to another battleground and its

governor, governor gretchen whitmer will join us on what's at stake in michigan. plus, a window into where the polls are. steve kornacki joining to us break down all the latest polling when we're back in 90 seconds. we're back in 90 seconds. take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

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pennsylvanian voters. a loss in pennsylvania could make winning nearly impossible for either candidate. there are a lot of options to make up those 19 electoral votes elsewhere. there really aren't. and for vice president harris, the stakes could not be higher. >> no democrat has won the white house without winning pennsylvania, since 1948. so, what are pennsylvania voters looking for in a president. >> joining us now, will bunch and joanna mcclinton, a harris campaign surrogate. >> and speaker, you represent a part of philadelphia here, as well as delaware county in your county specifically. what do you see as the number one issue in your district? >> right now, it's the pocketbook issues, the kitchen table issues. how am i keeping food on the table? how can my young adult children

afford to buy their own homes, move out of their homes. how can our seniors have more access to affordable housing, so they can sell their homes to people who are trying to buy them. it's the everyday economic issues that people in west philly and lower delaware county are thinking about all the time. and they are listening out tonight to hear vice president's plan as president how she'll reduce costs, have this new opportunity plan, she talked about at the convention, for people to get jobs, get training. it's very exciting right now. >> and will, the harris campaign points to their ground game here in pennsylvania. the trump team points to voter registration in the state. how is it looking for both sides? >> it's split right down the middle. it's interesting, because this state had been leaning blue democratic earlier in the 21st no one was hurt century. >> donald trump came along, won, and the reason he did it, we have 67 counties here in

pennsylvania, and he really boosted turnout in those rural counties. not so much in philly or pittsburgh, the places that james carville famously described as alabama, you know, in the middle of the state, he boosted registration there and turnout. and i think that's what he's banking on in 2024. >> i had a chance to talk to some voters here in pennsylvania a few days ago at temple university. these are young voters. it was a group of latina voters specifically. i want to play a clip of what they shared when it comes to an important issue on their minds, and that is reproductive rights. >> how do you see the choice when it comes to this issue of reproductive rights in a kamala harris presidency versus a donald trump presidency? olivia? >> i am fully in with kamala harris. >> i don't think it's a question if he respects women, if he respects or even acknowledges our rights and our autonomy.

so it's just not a question for me that there will be any change or any progress with him as president for that. >> i fear a trump presidency will continue to push america towards a regressive era. >>. >> speaker, if you are kamala harris on that debate stage tonight, how do you push donald trump on that issue? >> it's a vulnerable issue for him? >> he's been very clear from the beginning, he was going to get in audience and appoint supreme court justices that were radical, right-wing, and extreme, and overturn 50 years of president and take away women's rights to choose. if i'm kamala harris on that debate stage, i'm making it clear to every woman, every elder millennial like myself, all the way down to the gen "z" students you were talking to in north philly about how we don't want to see a day where we don't have access to birth control. we don't want to say a day where there's a national abortion ban. when we go to the doctor's office, we can't take the

president with us. it's only one extra seat, maybe for a loved one. that's a critical, important issue that every woman across america needs to be focused on and listening out in this debate. >> and excuse me for interrupting. that's a shot of the debate stage and those podiums that we just saw now. will, you just published a piece on fracking as an issue that is back in focus this election season. how important is fracking and kind of give us an understanding of the importance of practice ing to the state and the vice president's opinions on whether fracking should or should not be allowed? >> pennsylvania is one of the top nations in the country for producing natural gas. it's a fairly new phenomenon. the fracking process came into being 20 years ago, it took pennsylvania by storm and it has created some jobs, but not nearly as many as the industry promised. and the issue was a lot more

nuanced in pennsylvania than you might hear from some of the people talking about it on tv. while we do have fracking and it has its supporters and people who work in the industry, we have a lot of environmentalis here in pennsylvania. polls show the state is divided down the middle about fracking. >> do we know how many people are involved in the fracking industry? >> they were promised hundreds of millions of jobs. some of these people were transported from other states. texas and oklahoma. there's been some boost to hotels, restaurants, bars, and places in those areas. butst it's not near the top of the number of employers. i think for kamala harris, the concern is, these young voters like the ones you talked to, they're concerned about climate change. and i think some of them may be a little disappointed she changed her position to a more pro-fracking position.

they may not totally count that against her, but i think they want to hear tonight what she's going to do to phase out fossil fuels more quickly than donald trump. >> they want to hear about climate change, about immigration, about reproductive rights, and they want to hear about education and the issue of critical race theory, which has been such a culture war issue, not just here in pennsylvania, but really across the country in other important states in this election. those young people are engaged in this election cycle. just quickly, speaker, what keeps you up at night as it pertains to your party and this election? >> i think about children who are in school, trying to get to school in philadelphia, that come under gun violence. we saw what just happened a couple of days ago. it's startling, overwhelming, not just georgia, not just texas, not just florida, it's everywhere. when we think about doing

something real and serious. where we can both protect second gradeer sand defend and have a robot second amendment, it's only kamala harris that would do that from the white house. our former president would never stand up to the gun lobby and protect our families in the future. >> thank you both so much for being with us this afternoon. really appreciate it. coming up, governor gretchen whitmer is going join us. what michigan voters might want to and see hear tonight. >> but first, a look at how close the race is ahead of tonight's debate. steve kornacki will be with us with all the numbers, next. steve kornacki will be with us with all the numbers, next hi, my name is damian clark. and if you have

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we know the race between trump and vice president harris is neck and neck, which means the stakes couldn't be higher heading into tonight's debate. >> the most recent polling and the most recent debate americans watched, effectively, ended president biden's political

career. and now with vice president harris at the top of this ticket, this may be her only chance to face off against donald trump before the election. let's go right to nbc's steve kornacki who is standing by with some of the data for us. what are the numbers telling you, steve? >> a close race. this is the average of all the national average polls, we've been keeping harris two points ahead of trump, 47-45. that is down a tick from where it was a few days ago, heading into the weekend, harris had been three up on trump. there had been a number of polls, you've probably seen this in the last couple of days that have been better for trump nationally. a pew poll that had the race times. a "new york times" poll that had trump ahead. it makes it 47-45, in the national average. and one of the questions, too, obviously, we always say, it's almost a cliche, it's not the popular vote, it's the electoral college, but we did see when trump won in 2016, of course, he lost the popular vote, won in the electoral college, and in

2020, trump lost the popular vote by 4 1/2 points in nearly won in the electoral college. are we going to see a disconnect again where the democrats do better in the popular vote, but have trouble in the electoral college? that's something to keep an eye on, as we show you the averages. again, our polling averages here from the seven core battleground states. and again, you see -- you do seem trump, some harris blue here, but what you really see are razor-thin margins. a point and a half. 1/10 of one point, half of one point here. these things really kind of on a knife's edge in these states, although you pay note, one of them here, wisconsin, has harris ahead by just over four on the average right now. and that gets us to something else we saw in 2016 and 2020, and that was polling misses, and polling misses, particularly in wisconsin, in michigan, saw it in pennsylvania to some degree. we talk about the polls being off in '16 and '20. they weren't off by the same amount in every state.

they were just particularly off in the upper midwest, in these northern battleground states. there were polls that had joe biden ahead by well over ten appoints in wisconsin in 2020. he ended up carrying it by just 20,000 votes. that's another thing to be looking for this fall. big question heading into the election. we can look at all of the polls in those states. has the issue been fixed? the problem was, it seemed, trump voters in those states, a lot of blue collar, white voters in those states, very high, trump underestimated in the polls in the last two times. will they be underestimated again? that's very significant if it happens. and in terms of the stakes from tonight's debate, this is from "the new york times" poll. this puts it in stark contrast, asking voters, do you need to learn more? do you feel you need to know more about these candidates. more than a quarter said so about kamala harris. donald trump much more of a known commodity. only 9% say they need to know

more about him to make up their minds and if harris has people willing to learn more about her, one thing she wants to use that opportunity is to try to address this. do you see the candidate as major change or more of the same, status quo? look at this, harris, the incumbent vp, unpopular administration, a majority say, she's status quo. trump, a majority of the former president, say right now, represents major change. so show you in that last slide, the opportunity may be for harris tonight, may be a way of measuring if she's been successful tonight so if these numbers for her move at all. >> steve kornacki, thank you so very much. here's a question for you, what's it like to spar against vice president harris in a debate? senator amy klobuchar has done it. she'll join us next. >> but first, governor gretchen whitmer on what voter in battleground michigan are watching for tonight. that's right after this. e watching for tonight that's right after this. recommended by the nei. i'm taking control like millions of others.

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when vice president harris and former president trump take the stage a few hours from now, right here where we are in philadelphia, they'll be laser focused on winning the support of that small, undecided pool of voters in key swing states. >> they still exist in battleground michigan, which went for trump in 2016, and biden in 2020, just 7% of voters in this election say they are undecided, and virtually every poll done in michigan since the democratic national convention last month has shown a

razor-thin margin right now between harris and trump. >> nbc news correspondent shaq brewster spoke to some voters today in kent county to find out how closely they'll be watching the candidates tonight. >> i think it will be very important. >> why is that? >> i think people, some people think that she's not very strong for president and i hope that her performance tonight will show that she's the right candidate. >> i would actually like to hear kamala's policies. she hasn't been very clear on everything. it seems like a celebrity campaign so far. >> it would helpful if he would not be as bombastic. >> you voted for trump in the past, but it sound like vice president harris has the ability to win your vote tonight? >> yeah. >> joining us now, democratic governor of michigan, gretchen whitmer. governor whitmer is a harris campaign co-chair. governor, thank you for being with us today. i'm just wondering what you think are the key issues that the undecided voters of your

state are looking at? >> well, you just heard from a number of great michiganders there, right? we know that this is going to be a close race. michigan is a microcosm of the country. we are a state with good, hard-working people. they expect their leaders to be as good if not better and work harder than they do. and i think what people are going to see is a real stark choice in front of us between kamala harris and donald trump. i have every confidence that vice president harris is going to take the stage and show a command of the issues, of the facts, it's going to show the strength that people want, but also, i think, the humility to recognize that she's walked, you know -- she's had a life very similar to ours. growing up in a single-parent home, working an hourly job to help pay for costs when she was in school. i mean, this is a great american story that is similar to so many of what we have in michigan and i think people are going the see, that's why she really is

going to stay laser-focused on making sure that every american has a path to prosperity in this country, and get more money in people's pockets and creating a real opportunity and future for the next generation. >> you see the choices as pretty clear. what do you think makes this race so close? >> well, obviously, we've -- we're a quite divided country. and we've seen political rhetoric that has been so divisive and toxic and, understandably, there are americans who are just working hard to get to work on time, get their kid off to school, and get dinner on the table. people are starting to tune in now that we are after labor day. i think that what the average person wants and needs from their leader is to know that they've got a plan that will make their lives better. they'll work hard every single day and ask, what more can i do to help the arch person get ahead in this country, whether it's simply ensuring that

everyone can get skills without carrying a lifetime of debt. these are the things that grow the middle class, that create opportunity, and that kamala harris has got a record delivering on, and will continue to work towards, so that can be a reality for every one of us. >> and governor, steve kornacki was showing us some of the numbers. voters, many of them, say they want change. how could or should the vice president be differentiating herself, i guess, from the biden administration, that she is a part of, at the same time, showing the american people that she is different, that she has different ideas. >> i think people are going to see that really quickly. she is a change candidate. she is a new chapter in this country, one that is going to be focused completely on ensuring that every person has that path. on fighting on woman's ability to make her own decisions about her body. this is a vice president who has a long history of working for the public and devoting her life to making people's lives better.

making sure we're safe in our communities. making sure that consumers aren't taken advantage of. this is what she brings to the table. versus a donald trump who has only ever ran on an agenda that makes his own life better. we're tired of leaders who don't see us, who haven't walked the life -- you know, the walk that the rest of us have. that's why this is a new moment in america. we have an opportunity to hire a commander in chief who comes from the middle class, who gets us, who knows how to get things done, and genuinely cares about her fellow americans. those are things that set her apart from donald trump on all fronts. >> governor, as we anticipate tonight's debate, what's your sense, do voters have different expectations for harris that they do for trump? >> you know, in michigan, i can just tell you this, that we've been really, i think, setting an agenda that has created a lot of opportunity here. growing our economy. and a lot of that is bolstered

by the work that the biden/harris administration has done. whether it is the, you know, inflation reduction act or the chips act or infrastructure, which every one of us relies on and needs. so i do think that kamala harris will be able to show what she's been able to get accomplished in support of the biden agenda, but also take out what a harris/walz agenda looks like. and i think people will feel a lot more, i think, familiar with kamala harris once they get to see her on stage tonight, and see that dynamic leader that she is, especially when the mash-up is with the guy who was there before and saw us through some of the most catastrophic times in our country's history, through a pandemic where so many americans' lives were lost. and an economy that was in a shambles when he left office. we're in a very different place and kamala harris has an agenda that she'll be talking about tonight.

and i think it will get people excited and they'll feel seen and heard and supported for the first time in a while. >> governor whitmer, thank you so much forring with us. >> thank you. up next, we will talk to someone who has debated kamala harris. senator amy klobuchar will join us with more on tonight's debate dynamics. stay with us. you're watching special coverage here on msnbc. re watching specie here on msnbc. with my memory." memory loss is, is not something that occurs overnight. i started noticing subtle lapses in memory. i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. it's helped my memory. it's helped my cognitive qualities. give it a try. i want it to help you just like it has helped me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription.

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the debate stage was four years ago against mike pence and before that she was ahead of members in her own party in the 2020 primary debate. now four years later what has she taken away from these experiences and could it help her win tonight's debate. joining us now is someone who faced off against the vice president on that 2019 primary stage. >> and there she is. senator amy klobuchar of minnesota. she's also a harris campaign surrogate. so great to have you with us. >> thank you. >> what do you think will constitute a win for the vice president tonight? >> it will be showing the american people where she stands, which she did so well at the convention and since this campaign started. she's been extraordinary. and then making the case as the prosecutor, someone who has been able as the attorney general, the biggest attorney general's office in the country, she ran and put the facts out there and

then make the case to the american people. and what i want to see out of this debate and i know she could deliver because i saw her in our campaigns where, by the way, we got to be better friends when it ended, i know that what she could do is show the difference. she's going to be focused on the future. he tends to talk about the past. she's someone that is going to come as a prosecutor, but also a person. someone would worked at mcdonald's, someone who understands what it is like to be in the middle class. and then finally, just that split screen on the issues. you know, law and order, and then you go the a guy with all of the felony convictions. she's somehow that has stood up and put out a very well-needed and well-done policy on small businesses and entrepreneurship and we have him on the other side with his tax cuts for the wealthy. and then you have the difference on freedom. she is someone, i was there, who called out the number on the

supreme court justice nominees who stood up for abortion proverdicts as attorney general of california who has led the effort of the vice presidency. and on the other side, you have a guy who said he's proudly responsible to be the person who overturned roe v. wade. said he was going to do it and exhibit a, put the justices on, exhibit b, and then said he did it afterward and was proud of it, exhibit c. she has a strong case to make. >> it as been a while since trump has been on the debate stage with a woman. i think back to 2016 and hillary clinton and hi stalking that he appeared he was doing and how attacked carly fiorina and gone after debate moderators that are woman. he doesn't hold back when speaking about or to women. what unique challenge might that create for vice president harris as she faces off with him on the

debate stage tonight? >> you know, that is a challenge for anyone. i foe she's up for it. i know by how she and her campaign has handled this. because some of the things that they've taken straight on, some of the things they have ignored, which is the right thing to do. you've heard her say in the past, same old playbook, next question. and some of the things she has used humor. and i just think that she, when you look back at some of her other debates for the u.s. senate, for attorney general, she was able to effectively take on things with sometimes a sentence or a look. and i think oftentimes in the past, when people weren't used to dealing with donald trump, just try to go at him with everything, and he is just -- he wants to control that debate stage. i wish they would have left the mics on. that is something that kamala harris wanted to do so america could see him exactly as he is.

despite the fact that they're going to turn the mic off on him. >> think she'll be able to make that case, of the clear difference between them. >> senator klobuchar, thank you for being with us. very appreciative of your time. >> it is great to be on. i could feel the excitement there. you're going to have a good time. >> and i'll tell you, you're absolutely right. you could stay with msnbc the rest of the day. to stay with this excitement and watch the debate, right here on msnbc, special coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. eastern and hosted by rachel maddow and our prime time team. >> and that will do it for us today. you could find me at 10:00 a.m. and jose at 11:00 a.m. >> thank you for the perfective lith of your time. "deadline: white house" starts after a quick break. you'll find them in cities, towns and suburbs all across america. millions of americans who have medicare and medicaid but may be missing benefits they could really

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