barnstorming tour. i think one of the challenges for harris she has a truncated time line. we will see her barnstorming the country to the battleground states and taking her case directly to the voters that will decide this election. we saw the head of the harris campaign saying last night they wanted a second debate between the two candidates. we will see whether or not they can agree on moving forward with that, but, you know, i think it will be interesting to see how trump responds. oftentimes, we see him lash out when he is falling behind. we saw him show off in the spin room and something he has not done for many years. we could expect to see the candidates clash again on the debate stage but they both will be traveling the country the last few weeks.

>> white house reporter at "the washington post" tyler page, thank you for being with us and thank you to all of you for getting up way too early for us on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. in springfield, they are eating the dogs. the people that came in, they are eating the cats. they are eating -- they are eating the pets of the people that live there and this is what is happening in our country and it's a shame. as far as rallies are concerned and the reason they go is they like what i say. they want to bring our country back. they want to make america great again. it's a simple phrase. make america great again. she is destroying this country and if she becomes president, this country does not have a chance of success. not only success but will be venezuela on steroids. >> i want to clarify here. you bring up springfield, ohio. and abc news did reach out to the city manager there. he told us no credible reports

of pets being harmed or injured or abused by individuals within the immigrant -- >> somebody called and said a dog -- >> i'm not saying -- >> they say dog was eaten by the people who went there. >> the springfield city manager says no evidence of that. vice president, we will let you respond to the rest of what you heard. >> talk about extreme! >> one of the most talked about moments from last night's debate the former president repeating a false unhinged claim which his campaign was promoted that immigrants in springfield, ohio, are eating people's pets. >> eating dogs. eating dogs. yeah. >> moments after the debate ended, another huge headline. one of the biggest names in music global superstar taylor swift endorses vice president kamala harris. >> as they say, not the

beginning or the end. it's the end of the beginning. i don't know with taylor, maybe it is the beginning of the end. >> kind of. >> you know, i got to say our job is to analyze the debate last night. i must say that, you know, one of the phrases, catch phrases that have come up this election cycle has been saying and you have mainstream people, mainstream media people that are trying their best to mold donald trump in to a bob dole-like character, somebody that they can analyze as if he is any other candidate, as if this is any other election, as if last night was any other debate. it just wasn't. you had one candidate that was completely unhinged. just completely off his rocker. he looked badly. he looked old. he looked disconnected from reality. he looked enraged. he kept repeating the same

things over and over again. made no sense. there was no preparation on his side. and he resorts to internet rumors already debunked just because he has nothing to say. one of the most ill-prepared -- well, the most ill-prepared presidential candidates we have ever seen in one of these debates. one the of the angriest and i got to say hunched over. look at him. his eyes squinting. the split screen was extraordinary. so this morning for people on any network, even those who get paid to lie about donald trump every day, there is no saying watching there and there is no normalizing there and there is no pretending that that was any other candidate. this is any other election or that was any other debate. >> yeah. we have been encouraging people a long time to not grade donald trump on a curve. to not say that is what he does.

no. this guy wants to be president of the united states again so watch that debate last night and ask yourself if that is a person who should be in the white house and near the nuclear codes. we will show all of these moments. in addition to his claim which was made up on the internet and the person who took the photograph of the guy carrying the goose down the street spoke out yesterday and said that wasn't in springfield, ohio. i have no idea if that guy was an immigrant or haitian or anything else. former president of the united states donald trump is screaming about people eating dogs. it didn't happen. he praised when asked about foreign policy, he praised only victor orbon, the authoritarian leader of hungary and not saying whether he wants ukraine to win the war when asked many times and effectively siding with vladimir putin there. defending his actions on january 6th and the mob that desecrated

the capitol and beat up cops that day. went back to the well even, joe, of defending what he did around the central park five. he said, well, actually at the time -- i mean, why? why go back to that? he was asked about it but why attempt to rationize or defend calling for the death penalty for five young men who ultimately were exonerated. that was the tip of the iceberg. no more grading donald trump on a curve. he wants to be president of the united states again and watch those 90 minutes and ask yourself which of those two people are more fit to be president. >> for anybody who is frustrated watching donald trump lie again and again unchecked, i will say that last night was validation, finally. watching him get called out. not necessarily by the moderators, though did make an attempt to try -- throw he talked over them and they -- although he talked over them and

they content turn him off. kamala harris was joyful and classy and went in there and debated him over and over and over again and he fell for it every time. i think the moment that really was the unraveling was when she invited all americans to attend a trump rally and to see the lies in person and to see how tired and boring the rallies are, to hear about hannibal lecter and other things. he just lost it from there on. we can play that. >> let's play it real quick. >> take a look. >> i'm going to actually do something really unusual and i'm going to invite you to attend one of donald trump's rallies. because it's a really interesting thing to watch. you will see during the course of his rallies, he talks about about fictional character like hannibal lecter and talk about windmills cause cancer and what you will also note is that

people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom. i will tell you one thing you will not hear him talk about is you. you will not hear him talk about your dreams and your needs and your desires and i'll tell you i believe you deserve a president who actually puts you first and i pledge to you that i will. >> let me respond to the rallies. she said people start leaving. people don't go to her rallies. no reason to go. the people that do go, she is bussing them in and paying them to be there and then showing them in a different light. so she can't talk about that. people don't leave my rallies. we have the most incredible rallies in the history of politics. that is because people want to take their country back. our country is being lost. we are a failing nation and it happened three and a half years ago and what is going on here, you'll end up in world war iii. as far as rallies are concerned and as far as the reason they go is they like what i say. they want to bring our country

back. they want to make america great again. it's very simple phrase. make america great again. she is destroying this country and if she becomes president this country doesn't have a chance of success. not only success, will end up being venezuela on steroids. >> from there on out, joe, it just went downhill for him. he could not handle hearing that his rallies are boring and that people get up and leave. >> you know, willie, it's interesting that when you're listening to music and you're trying to really figure out what is going on in a performance, it really is always best. quincy jones would always tell people if you want to know what is going on, turn your back to who is performing. or just close your eyes. that is how you hear the music. here, i would say just the opposite. if you want to get exactly where a debate is going, turn the sound off. use your eyes.

and visually the split screens are so stark. when you do that, you see kamala harris smiling, mocking, you know, putting her hand underneath her chin, are you really saying that? and at one moment in that bizarre exchange about dog eating she actually looked like she was feeling sorry for the man. >> yes! >> because he was so detached from reality. >> yeah. he wouldn't look at her. if you go through those 90 minutes, you probably count two or three times he glanced over. he is scowling and uncomfortable. i think one of the big tells, we have heard from a lot of republicans who concede privately that this went terribly for donald trump and actually i heard some praise for kamala harris' performance even from republicans, democrats, obviously, excited about it, was about 30 minutes into the debate, we started to see online and now on the front page of a major newspaper that it was the moderators' fault.

blame them. they are ganging up because a handful of times they fact check donald trump on egregious lies. you also know it didn't go well because donald trump showed up in the spin room. donald trump, himself, yesterday, last night after the debate to try to sort of reimagine what happened in that room last night. harris campaign calling immediately for a second debate. we will see if there is a second debate. they feel confident about it. the trump campaign resorting to blaming the moderators for what their candidate did in that room. >> if you're showing up in that spin room, you've lost. if you're blaming the moderators, you've lost. trump we should note was noncommittal whether he would debate harris again. harris saying let's get a second date on the books for october. split screen was so effective for harris the way she smiled and almost sort of mocked him at times and looking in disbelief, i can't believe i'm sharing the stage with someone saying things like that. she threw him off at the beginning and walked over for a

handshake. he clearly didn't expect it and set a tone for the night. first 15, 10 minutes when they talked about the economy with you once they start talking about abortion and trump twisted himself in knots to explain his shifting stances but at the same time made it clear he was proud of u.s. supreme court justices he nominated. the vice president scored some points there. there were so many moments here where she just got the best of him and he looked old. he looked out of touch. and he looked like he was speaking, joe, to just a small republican ecosystem and not winning over any new votes at all. >> so bizarre. >> we should note it took a while to get there last night but he was asked. not just about january 6th where he defended his actions but he was asked about the 2020 election and he repeatedly would not say that he lost. >> by the way, for people,

again, that have to lie constantly, trying to normalize donald trump, there is so much they can't run away. his own campaign staff begging him to stop lying about a stolen election. he couldn't do it. he could not say that he wanted ukraine to be able to push back the russian invaders. he would not say it. he would not say repeatedly whether he was going to push a national ban for abortion on american women. would not say it. was asked afterwards as he was leaving the debate, he would not answer that question on whether he supported a national ban or not. you go down the list. time and time again he would not say he did anything wrong on january 6th. again, there is nothing normalized about him. his performance was absolutely

terrible. and there were many people who actually dared to say the truth. it was the worst debate performance in history. >> they were even -- >> you had a lot of trump supporters on twitter, in the media saying it was one of the worst debate performances they ever saw and they could blame abc all they wanted to. blame those two? you can't get past that? seriously? is he that bad? he is going to take on dictators all over the world and he can't handle the truth about eating cats in springfield, ohio? seriously? >> right out of the box on fox news, they said he won hands down and no other way to look at it. others tried to make up stuff but there was nowhere to go. >> they have nothing. >> also with us is u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay. associate editor of "the washington post" eugene robinson. ceo of the messina group, jim

messina is here. he ran his 2012 re-election campaign. also john heilemann, chief editor of puck. >> anyone who won a pulitzer prize here? >> it would be i! >> gene robinson from "the washington post," your thoughts? >> so kamala harris from the beginning, the opening minute was the alpha female on that stage, first of all. i mean, she took charge of the debate as it was. she got her points across while, at the same time, she knew exactly what buttons to push to bring the insanity out of donald trump. the crowd size. you know, john mccain. >> being a disgrace, military

leaders calling him a disgrace. >> a disgrace, using that word disgrace. >> looking right at him. >> and looking right at him. he wouldn't look back. it was just the most comprehensive beat-down i have ever seen on a debate stage and i'm including the trump/biden debate where biden beat himself. really, donald trump didn't do it. but it was just -- i mean, if there were a mercy rule, it would have been called after you got to the first half-hour, 45 minutes. >> let's play a clip on abortion right now. >> the reason i'm doing that vote is because the plan is, as you know, the vote is they have abortion in the ninth month. they even have -- you can look at the governor of west virginia, the previous governor of west virginia, not the current governor who is doing an excellent job, but the governor before, he said the baby will be born and we will decide what to do with the baby.

in other words, we will execute the baby. and that is why i did that because that predominates. they are radical. the democrats are radical in that. her vice presidential pick, i think was a horrible pick by the way, for our country because he is really out of it! but her vice presidential pick says abortion in the ninth month is absolutely fine. he also says execution after birth, it's execution, no longer abortion because the baby is born is okay. that is not okay with me. hence the vote. >> there is no state in this country where it's legal to kill a baby after its born. >> let's understand how we got here. donald trump hand-selected three members of the united states supreme court with the intention that they would undo the protections of roe v wade and they did exactly as he intended. and now in over 20 states, there are trump abortion bans which make it criminal for a doctor or

a nurse to provide health care in. in one state, it provides prison for life. trump abortion bans that make no exception even for rape and incest which understands what that mean. a violator of a crime to the violation of their body does not make a decision about what happens to their body next. that is immoral. one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply-held beliefs to agree the government and donald trump certainly should not be telling a woman what to do with her body. i have talked with women around our country. you want to talk about this is what people wanted? pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care in an emergency room because the health care providers are afraid they might go to jail and she is bleeding out in a car in the parking lot? she didn't want that?

her husband didn't want that? a 12-year-old survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term? they don't want that! i pledge to you when congress passes a bill to put back in place the protections of roe v wade as president of the united states, i will proudly sign it in to law but understand if donald trump were to be re-elected, he will sign a national abortion ban. understand in his project 2025, there would be a national abortion, a monitor that would be monitoring your pregnancies, your miscarriages. i think the american people believe that certain freedoms, in particular the freedom to make decisions about one's own body, should not be made by the government. >> it's a lie. i'm not signing a ban. and there is no reason to sign a ban because we have gotten what everybody wanted. democrats, republicans, and everybody else and every legal

scholar wanted it to be back into the states' the states are voting. it may take a little time. but for 52 years this issue has torn our country apart and they wanted it back in the states and i did something that nobody thought was possible. the states are now voting. what she says is an absolute lie and, as far as the abortion ban, no. i'm not in favor of abortion ban put it doesn't matter because this issue has now been taken over by the states. >> would you veto a national abortion ban if it came to your desk? >> i wouldn't have to. she said she will go back to congress and impossible for her to get the vote and now with 50/50 -- essentially 50/50 in both senate and the house. she is not going to get the vote. she can't get the vote and won't come close to it. >> he wouldn't answer it. >> he is lying. >> on the veto. >> through that he keeps lying and kamala harris just very plainly put out there, katty

kay, the bitter truth, that what trump has done to women's health in america is monstrous and she very eloquently but very clearly put out there what is happening in doctors' offices and emergency rooms across the country thanks to him. >> yeah. i thought on a night of strong answers that was her strongest and when i was listening to it, i marked that one down. she started with a policy. she took it to the personal and turned it back to donald trump. i would love for her to have the opportunity to push him again on his response to those women who are bleeding out in emergency rooms or who are the victims of incest. or the young kids who had to be moved across borderlines and he managed to duck that. my colleagues with swing voters and several said they felt the moment they would turn for kamala harris. part of the problem is donald trump's answers it turns out if you are going to do a debate for the presidency of the united states, it's worth prepping and

he didn't prep time and again during the course of this debate. there were moments for him. he could have pushed hard on afghanistan and he could have pushed hard on the administration's records on prices and affordable. there were moments for him to take something and he had not prepped and so obvious. he didn't know how to make his points. >> again, let's not whitewash history. he has never prepped for anything. his staffers said they wouldn't even put a one-pager in front of him at the white house because he wouldn't read it. and so he is not going to prep. he never was going to prep. he wasn't capable of prepping and doesn't care about knowing the issues. he does not know them. he is as shallow as anyone who ever stepped on a debate stage and it showed. talk about that and also that last answer. you said while that clip was being played that her answer on

abortion would be one in the future that candidates would be shown. >> absolutely. 30 years from now, people will show those clips of kamala harris ripping him apart on abortion. at the prototypical example to do. the substance and passion and looking straight at him and making it very personal. your point about the emergency rooms. you could see swing voters moving. we have seen an on this. 92% poll of uncommitted voters said she won that debate. joe, you and i couldn't get 92% americans to agree on free beer. it is unbelievable what that was and how they did it. and you continue to watch him. harris campaign leading up to the debate said we are going to debate him. the very first time she is on crowd sizes collapsed and went

into the worst version. he proved over. abortion and crowd sizes the debate was over. the rest was just a victory lap. >> willie? >> there is no question that that was a pivotal moment and she knew exactly what she was doing leaving that seed about crowd size and that set him off. as many noted last night that night was a rally version of donald trump. talking about obscure subjects the average normy voter we call it here who doesn't have a life and isn't tuned in saying what he is talking about? i don't understand what is he getting at here. john heilemann you were in the spin room last night and in philadelphia. what was the sense from the trump campaign and harris campaign afterward? >> well, good morning. you know, joe talked to me before about how you watch something and old political consultants trick is to watch

the debate with the sound off and you can get a lot on the visual there and that is true and definitely the case watching this debate. what else you can watch with the sound off and how it went last night was the activity in the spin room where the trump forces were dejected, defeated, deflated, dispirited. i posted a picture of matt gaetz and steven miller coming in. they looked sort of saggy road like a shot of -- this is what defeat looks like, folks. these people have been talking about donald trump before the debate like he is mouhamed ali and the greatest debaters and there will be surprises jason miller said. she won't know what hit her. they looked like they had their dogs and cats eaten over the course of that debate.

>> oh, my god! >> it's also -- it's also the case, i will tell you that i can report definitively that there is one point of agreement inside the trump war room and the harris war room where both of those war rooms were looking at their dial groups in real-time last night. the dial groups that the campaigns are looking at last night showed the same thing, that in real-time, the undecided voters that they were looking at, harris crushed trump throughout the night. i'm not suggesting they actually popped any champagne corks last night but their attitude was that of metaphor champagne pop corkers. i have slaughter house 45, okay?

it was as gene said, as thorough a demolished decimation of a candidate i've ever seen. whether it will effect the outcome of the election, i don't know. the vote is elastic. whether we will see movement in the polls? i don't know. the harris campaign had a number of objectives here and one of them was further introduction of her to a lot of voters who still think they need to know more about her. they did some work on that last night. the most important thing they did last night i heard from donors and campaign people and elected democrats all over the country this was a test of plaus,ible. she passed with flying colors. they said the first debate, presidential debate, you're trying to establish you can

command the stage. and what people remember is command. who are people going to remember about who commanded this first debate? kamala harris commanded the first debate. the last thing i'll say, donald trump, when he attacked her as key a moment as the dogs and cats moments was, look at the thing he did at the end of the speech when he said, finally, in the 86th minute of a 90-minute debate he finally did the thing he was supposed to do from the very beginning which was say, you are joe biden. you're to his policies. it took him 86 minutes to say it and he said it in a clumsy way she was able to knock it back with a hand flick and say, well, i'm, obviously, not joe biden, sir. and that was that. that was one of the things he was supposed to do here. say she has his record. she has to own his economic policies. it took him 86 minutes to remember that and the way joe biden got to frame the first debate the first time around in atlanta. in so many ways this debate

mirrored that one and, joe, your point about the split screens. boy. the split screen with kamala harris last night with it did for joe biden in atlanta. >> who would guess we have two of the most momentous presidential debates in the past few months when, of course, usually we sit here and go, that debate doesn't matter. the last two debates have mattered a great deal. we will see how it does impact voters. initial word from both camps that the dial groups were overwhelmly supportive of harris. yesterday i talked about style. moves debates come down to style. we will keep talking about this on the other side of the break. i thought it was brilliant in the midst of that madness kamala harris kept going back to issues that mattered the most to americans as far as her framing.

she talked about first time home buyers. she kept coming back to it. we have a tax break for first time home buyers. we are going to help you. if you're a small business owner. see, again, this is something that is so important because democrats have always been painted as tax and spend democrats and you can talk about taxing billionaires and everything else but that always has to be countered with what kamala harris is doing more effectively than any democrat i've seen running on the national stage. she is talking about we need tax cuts for small business owners. we need tax cuts for entrepreneurs and job creators and that message kept cutting through. that is a message that cuts through in wisconsin, in michigan, in pennsylvania, as well as in georgia and north carolina, arizona, nevada, with people on the edge going, is she a tax and spend democrat? wait a minute. i got a small business. i'll take the 50,000 dollar tax

break because i really need it because i'm growing my business. i'm hiring customers. i'm hiring people. i'm getting more customers. here you have somebody that is not saying, hey, small business owner, i'm from the government, here are 12 more osha regulations. i'm from the federal government, here are ten more new taxes. this is somebody saying let me be president and i'm going to give you a break is a small business owner and she didn't say it once. she kept going back to it over and over again and that is an important thread that ran through this debate. >> we have a lot more ahead but a lot has been talked about in terms of the coverage of these candidates. i think in a moment like this it's important to point out what we do here. the morning after joe biden's debate, we said it like it was. we all saw what we saw and we didn't say anything otherwise than what we saw was brutal. had he a terrible night. it was very hard thing to do but we did it because that was the truth. >> we have known biden a long

time and i said he needed to consider leaving the race. >> the morning after. >> the morning after. >> so if you are trying to say anything but kamala harris was commanding in that debate, you're lying this morning. and you have to live with the fact that you're going to lose people. it doesn't work. people see what they see. and then they see lies about it and so this will be very stark, an important moment in terms of watching coverage and i'm just saying you have to say it like it is. we try our best to and we have seen it really bad debate on the democratic side. we also saw a really good one. still ahead on "morning joe," we will much more on last night's debate including the moment that donald trump said he didn't care about kamala harris' race. >> next week, i'm going to decide to be white. i'm just letting you know.

>> i would have no idea! jon meacham will join the conversation. we will be right back in 90 seconds. we will be right back in 90 seconds. i know. i love you. find childcare that fits your schedule at care.com rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. but i'm protected with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd and certain other conditions. but i'm protected. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. (♪♪) arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems

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debate i've ever personally that i've had. >> jake, i didn't think i was ever going to witness a debate as devastating as the one that you and dana moderated back in june where joe biden basically tanked his re-election campaign. i think tonight was just as devastating. i think that kamala harris pitched a shutout on almost every subject i can think of. she shut trump down on abortion. she shut trump down on january 6th and democracy. she shut him down on national security and turned to the former president and said the military leaders that served with you think you're a disgrace and then as dana mentioned, very powerfully at the end made the point she is the candidate of change and we need to turn the page from a decade of division and polarization. on substance, i think she pitched a shutout and i think she did on style as well. the image of the debate to me is she's there happy, smiling,

expressive and shaking her head and in dismay at what trump was saying. trump was looking angry and scowling and she was looking at the audience and he was looking at the moderators and arguing with him. donald trump looked old tonight. >> yeah. >> make no mistake about it trump had a bad night. he rose to the debate repeatedly when she baited him something i'm sure his advisers had begged him not to do. the first debate when biden attacked him he kept his cool and kept going. in this debate he rose -- we heard so many of the old grievances we thought trump had learned was not competitively. she came out looking pretty good. how long this will last is anybody's guess but for tonight at least, this is pretty much her night. >> gene robinson, the refs have called it. >> yeah, right.

k.o. >> people can be screaming in the cheap seats and blaming -- >> the moderator, blame the moderators for it which i think interjected three facts to correct. egregious, horrible, stupid lies by donald trump. you could see even in the spin room, which is probably his decision to go to the spin room, you could see how rattled he is. probably my best debate! obviously, nobody thinks that. he is so used to being able to sort of create his own weather, create his own reality. and it was kamala harris who did that last night, starting with the handshake and starting with going into his space and compelling him to shake hands with her. i think he was off balance from

that moment, to tell you the truth. i think he realized he was not in control of anything on that stage. >> right. >> he certainly wasn't in control of himself when she pushed his buttons. >> right. >> it's hard to imagine how it could have gone worse for him. i suppose he could have, like, passed out or something. >> right. >> but it was just as bad as you could think. >> you know, jim, the weirdos and freaks and insurrectionist freaks and trying to prop up this man are struggling. the fact the truth is in the dial groups, as you said, but also in the reaction from trump's campaign. he did everything that they have been begging him not to do. brit was talking about about it and repeatedly asked him to stay away from the hot button issues and he went after the dogs, seriously. a completely unhinged

performance. again, physicallily as britt human and chris wallace said he was hunched over and he looked over. >> he did and voters pick up on that and they understand very clearly that is the version of donald trump they didn't want. she did two other things last night that i think with more crucial. the first is she passed the commander in chief test. she had to pass that test. after barack obama had his first debate with john mccain people saw him as president and the race was over after that. she was able to frame this race in future versus the past and where voters want to go. when i was running with obama, bill clinton called me up and said all elections are in the future and he played into that. he played into the past and anger and continue to litigate the 2020 election. voters hate that. that is not about them but about him. he continued to double down it over and over and doing himself

damage that even he couldn't get out. you know you're in trouble on the campaign when you have to put the candidate in the spin room just being himself. that is a panic moment. >> you know it's bad then. willie? >> i'll say on the blaming of the refs that we saw beginning really 30 minutes in on social media when you have allies of president trump saying this is three-on-one, the moderators are on the side of kamala harris. there were a handful of gentle fact checks, including this. ask yourself if this is partisan after donald trump suggested he got the state wrong. he said the governor of west virginia and he was talking about ralph north and the governor of virginia then and executing babies after it's born. they said there is no state where it's legal to kill a baby after its born. one of the grievance britt hue referenced was the 2020 election. here is his answer followed by

the response from vice president harris. >> in the past couple of weeks leading up to this debate, you have said, quote, you lost by a whisker, that you, quote, didn't quite make it, that you came up a little bit short. >> i said that? >> are you you now acknowledging you lost in 2020? >> i don't act that at all. i say that sarcastically. we lost by a whisker. that was said sarcastically. so much proof. they should have sent it back to the legislatures for approval. i got 75 million votes and the most votes any sitting president had gotten. i told if i got 63 which i got in 2016 you will never be beaten. we need walls. we have to have it. we have to have borders. and we have to have good elections. >> donald trump was fired by 81 million people. so let's be clear about that. and clearly he is having a very difficult time processing that.

but we cannot afford to have a president of the united states who attempts, as he did in the past, to up-end the will of the voters in a free and fair election. >> so, john, it was just dry humor when donald trump said several times he lost the election. so fascinating. he continues to say for years i won 75 million votes, how could i have lost that election? as vice president kamal pointed out the other person in the race got 81 million votes is how he lost the race. he does insist going down this well and digging in to a subject that people closest to him really do wish he would stop talking about. looking back four years while kamala harris is trying to look forward and she made that pretty clear last night. >> she needled him with the fire -- he didn't like there getting under his skin. first on the issue, still pushing the big lie and pushing the idea he won the 2020

election. it's not just the trump advisers want him to stop talking about about that and poll suggests that too and turns off the thin slice of independent swing voters he needs to win and don't want to hear that. another moment where that harris was able to make herself the change candidate. the insurgent candidate and what trump has been to this point. we talked about about this election a referendum on joe biden would perhaps be problems for the democrats and democrats wanted it a choice election. harris made it a referendum about trump's record which is pretty remarkable for someone who is the sitting vice president who serves the incumbent president. yes, in trump's closing argument he made -- i think his best line of the night where he said to

harris i'm paraphrasing. you say you have to make things better why haven't done that. the matter felt very settled then and democrats were taking their victory lap and a lot of americans probably turning the channel at that point. but he wasn't able to do that throughout the debate prior to that and, instead, joe, it was harris who was able to sort of grab the mantle of the change candidate saying it's trump who represents tired, old playbook, old ideas, old person and that is where we want to go and she repeatedly used the phrase she uses all the time on the campaign trail, we are not going back. she worked that in to several answers last night. >> well, i just want to follow-up on what jim was saying in quoting bill clinton will elections being about the future. first time i ran, i started 29 years old. no experience. no bio. i was a lawyer. no reason anybody should have ever voted for me and i knocked on 10,000 doors and i found out immediately they did not care that i was running against the 16-year incumbent. they did not care about, you

know, that when he started in congress i was playing t-ball. they wanted to know what the future was going to look like to them. nobody ever stopped them and said you're only 29 and you're only 30 and you're only 31? they cared about the future and donald trump is always been about the past. always been about grievance. always been about 2020. there is no elections are won there, gene, none. >> well, the other thing is donald trump has always been about himself. and i thought -- >> well, exactly. >> i thought vice president harris did an effective job several times during the evening saying to the camera, americans, this is about you. this is not -- and i'm working for you as opposed to a candidate who thinks only of himself. >> yeah. >> right. >> i thought, you know, she

clearly was a point she wanted to hammer home. i think it was three or four times. >> there were several poignant moments i thought where when she talked about herself and tried to share who she is with the american people and she had worked as a former prosecutor and worked in the legal field, attorney general. she said i worked for the people. and whenever i represented someone, i didn't care whether they were democrat or republican. my question to them, are you okay? i thought that was powerful standing next to a man who could give a flying hoot about anybody but himself. another word i would use. >> middle class, she was raised in the middle class. i can tell you it makes a difference. you never forget when you're raised in the middle class. you never forget when your dad would worked his ass off his entire life gets laid off when he is 40 and never forget about driving around the south two years and he is looking for a

job with his kid in the back seat. you never forget a christmas where your older sister is crying because there are no christmas presents. that stays with you. kamala harris never forgets being raised by a single mom. she never forgets working at mcdonald's. she never forgets having to fight and scrap because there was no daddy to give her $200 million or $400 million. you never forget that. and there a lot of politicians that forget it last night. make no mistake she connected on that point and i'm glad she brought it up i'm from the middle class. i've been through this. doesn't matter how many positions i've held. i know where i started. i know where i came from and i know where he came from and it's not where you came from, scranton, ohio -- i mean,

scranton, pennsylvania, or youngstown, ohio. >> she is one of them and a voter like them that connection when she needled trump about how much money his dad gave him. you could see he understood that moment. and she continued to go back to it. the discipline she had last night for 90 minutes to continue to stick to her message, katty was talking about this earlier. is so important. trump is the best counterpuncher we have seen. she didn't care. she went back to her message and identified with the american people over and over and made her case and said i can the commander in chief. >> he couldn't look at her. >> no. she was prepped and she was disciplined and she was clear and she was coherent. that translates into governing and you think people are saying which of the people on this stage is better equipped to then run the country? i would think those are qualities that would reassure people she has the ability to do that. she may have spoken for a few less moments and women do that in those situations.

>> she spoke for 37 minutes. >> she didn't need to because a lot of what he said was rambling. he was actually hard to listen to. i had an interesting conversation yesterday with a woman who came over who is a pollster and helped the working class voters in the north and coming over to do a similar thing for the harris campaign. she said two things people focus on they want their middle class life back, a life they felt they lost and she talked about that repeatedly and they don't want to go back to chaos and feel they have gone through a period with covid and world economic insecurity and wars and it's being chaotic. last night he by sounding rambling, he kind of projects chaos. >> right. >> and i think that the moderators by bringing in january 6th, bringing in the 2020 election, it is a reminder of those things. i think she did last night at least what -- was trying to do in those working class -- >> on that, we want our middle class life back by kamala harris

talking repeated by about helping small business owners, helping start-ups and entrepreneurs and first-time home buyers. you want to know the youth vote, why there are a lot of younger americans who may be liberal or progressive on social issues but scared to death economically? they are in their 30s, 40s, whatever. i say anybody under 60 is young. they can't afford their first house. it's insanity how much things have changed over the past generation. that is what she kept speaking to last night. john heilemann, i'll let you pick up on all of this. i do want to circle back, though, to the insanity of trumpers on social media going, abc, i can't believe how horrible -- first of all he is so weak and old and frail that he is worried about those two

moderators? he's got bigger problems, first of all. secondly, the things they corrected him on were so basic. lies about crime dropping across the rest of the world. really? and then lies about crime skyrocketing here when just the opposite is true. that's a lie. that babies can be executed after they are born? democrats want to execute babies? it's just a complete total lie. you go down the list of these gentle brief corrections. dogs being eaten in springfield, ohio? this is sort of a no-brainer. >> yeah. i mean, three times that the moderators decided to really fact check gently and fact check trump three and you just named them, joe. on things if they hadn't fact

checked him, mika and others would say they were sane watching trump. the crime rate is not up. it's down. there is no -- there are no, according to the city manager in springfield, there are no credible claims of dogs, cats, or other pets being eaten by immigrants. that is really going to get your knickers in a twist you got a problem. the analyst on cnn is still a serve conservative and pro-trump said last night it's a little rich for our side to be complaining about the refs when our team can't make a shot. and that, i think, is what it comes down to here is that donald trump squandered every opportunity. the things he wanted to try to get done last night, he failed. systematically over and over again. i said before i agree with jim about the importance of this moment for harris. and for the -- what happens next in this race. we have eight weeks left in this

race. we have had a trajectory since harris came into the race and she had flattened in the week before the debate after soared five or six weeks. she that not been tanking but things leveling out and you expect that to happen, right? what happens the next eight weeks? three big things can happen. harris would screw up in a monumental way of this debate and, obviously, she did not and in fact, established herself as the commanding presence of this debate. there is the possibility of external events and foreign policy crises and disinformation, cyberwar, economic calamities around the world and she is still the sitting vice president. joe biden is still the president. they would have to deal with that in a different way donald trump is a outsider and not holding any office and out of anybody's control but a real thing. the third thing could change this rage in donald trump's favor is what everybody has been praying for the last six weeks as republican. they are praying against hope

and all evidence that donald trump could find his way back to some form of candidate discipline, focus, rigor, and consistency like he did for the two weeks at the end of 2016. he got them to do those things a brief and crucial moment and they said trump will find is way back. if you think donald trump has the mental and psychic and mental capacity to be a disciplined rigorous and consistent candidate driving a message over these next eight weeks, you're out of your mind if you watched that debate and come to that conclusion. the answer about the dogs and cats, do you know what the question was? the question was asked him about immigration. instead of talking about immigration, he talked about

crowd sizes and then he went to world war 3 and then he went back to crowd sizes and that lie about springfield. that is someone who has lost his marbles and not the kind of candidate that will run the campaign to beat harris. >> i will say, also, you know, people have been saying before this debate that donald trump would not be able to handle the presence of a black woman on this stage challenging him, that he was just -- that he was too racist. i was like, we will see. we will see. last night, we saw. when he was up against an older white man, he held his fire and he was disciplined. it was like he was a 5-year-old. he could not take kamala harris, a black woman, saying the truth

about his crowds, that people get bored and they walk out and they leave. >> and that he says weird things at them. >> so -- >> i do want to say, following up on what he said. he quoted a republican on cnn and it's a perfect quote for all of these whiners. you know? and it kind of reminds me of the alabama game last week. head a horrible game and took us a long time. one guy from alabama would make a tackle and celebrate. sit down! when you play good football, you can celebrate one good tackle, right? don't blame the refs and don't do anything. the republican on cnn is a point it's rich for republicans to blame the refs when they can't make a single shot. again, the morning after the

biden debate, what did we say? >> terrible. >> we kept saying he missed one layup after another layup after another layup and that is what happened last night. >> to make it worse for donald trump. he much more time about kamala harris to make layups. he had five precious more minutes to speak than her. >> what were the exact numbers? >> he had 42 minutes and kamala harris had 37. >> abc announcers were that unfair to kamala harris? >> they corrected him three times and very politely and quickly. i don't get the whole mike thing off. every time trump wanted to talk, they turned up his mike. >> they wouldn't cut him off. >> there were no rules. he just started -- >> yelling.

i'm going to turn the mikes off! that is a really good point. he got everything he wanted and he still, whatever the bed, do you know what i mean? john heilemann and jim messina, eugene robinson, thank you. we have be joined by david plouffe coming up. d by david plouffe coming up. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley

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these are the kinds of elements of a national health insurance important to the american people. governor reagan is against such a probably. >> governor? >> there you go again. >> when i hear your new ideas, i'm reminded of that ad, where is the beef? >> yeah. >> senator, i serve a jack kennedy. i knew jack kennedy. jack kennedy was a friend of mine. senator, you're no jack kennedy.

>> in springfield, they are eating the dogs! the people that came in, they are eating the cats! >> wow! wow. wow, wow. he said it like he meant it. >> they are eating the dogs! >> no. did he really mean that? he thinks that is true because he watches it on fox news? >> they are eating the dogs! >> try explaining this around the world. >> you can't explain it around the world or america unless people in a driven cult or driven party. >> i saw it on tv, he said. >> you have the dial groups. they can't deny the fact that donald trump lost massively last night and they are just -- what are they going to do? they will be doubling down on

their lies today and tomorrow and next week and hurt them in the end. people saw what they saw last night. >> he is on another network right now. the former president is going after the moderators so that appears to be the strategies that it was the moderators' fault last night. he is running an presidential campaign air-tight he needs to broaden the coalition of voters he brings to the table because he lost last time by 6 million votes. i would ask who is that for what we saw right there? if you are, again, a normal person which most americans are living were in their lives and don't live in the dark end of the internet. who eats dogs in springfield, ohio? what are you talking about? and not to mention it was a complete lie and the person who took the photograph said it wasn't in springfield. i didn't know who that guy was. i don't know if he was immigrant or where he was from. i thought it was weird a guy is walking down the street with a goose. who is he talking to?

>> you know what you just said? you said that. the morning after a presidential debate! and, again, there is a guy walking down the street with a goose! i don't know why he was walking down -- that is where donald trump has taken the republican party. that's where donald trump has taken an entire cable news networks and that is where donald trump has taken his online community of supporters. they have to support that madness. >> yeah. it's -- he did nothing among many other things he did poorly last night, he did absolutely nothing to attract new voters and not because of the ridiculous answer about dogs and cats in springfield, ohio but because of his answers on abortion and whether he would not the 2020 election. he claims he believes still he did. on abdicating himself of any responsibility for what happened on january 6th and showing affinity for people who went to

the capitol and desecrated and beat up cops and saying he will not vote for ukraine to win and he is deciding with vladimir putin side and i can go on and on and on. the point of the exercise here is to try to win a general election. he did nothing to add new voters last night. >> when you're bragging that victor orbon is your bud and only one you can name, that is a problem. jonathan lemire and katty kay is still with us and joining the conversation we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle and nbc news and nbc political analyst former senator of missouri claire mccaskill. also with us is al sharpton. and jon meacham is with us and jonathan marks of ppolitico.

>> jonathan, your takeaways from last night. >> donald trump was talking about things, as willie said, that most americans don't grasp. i can report at least here in philadelphia that the dogs here are safe on the streets of philadelphia. it's not just the dogs, though. how many americans know who victory orbon is? you're trying to win over folks in erie, p.a. and other places and you're talking about the hungarian president? i found that puzzling. kamala harris was somebody who was always good off a script but she is also good at something else which is the preparations that a prosecutor makes before a case. we saw that as senator when they

grilled the administrators on the hill. we saw that figure last night. a figure who does extensive prep. she had two dozen one-liner answers got almost all of them out and is a consultant's dream. you can see her going through the binder in her mind and flipping through the tabs and getting off line after line. obviously, she won the debate. the harris campaign wants a second debate and i think the trump will succumb and do it but he has to do something next time which he didn't do last night which is prepare and not take the bait. >> he doesn't do it. he does not prepare. he can't prepare. staffers in the white house said they couldn't hand him one-page summaries because he doesn't read them. somebody who reads is jon peopleage, the historian.

there is no parallel, i suppose, to a debate where you had one candidate as ill-prepared as donald trump talking about dog eaters, victor orbon and phantom crime statistics. how do you get your arms around this? and what do you say to your friends in the men's grill who will try to sane wash this today? >> it's the peter millar problem. the vice president, i think, for three and a half years was oddly and unfairly malaligned in the first three years of her being in office as vice president. then for the last month or so, i wondered whether she was disproportionately praised with a lack of data. that problem is gone. she delivered a brilliant

presidential performance last night and think passed all of the invisible tests about someone whom we could trust with the nuclear codes. i would put it and to my republican friends. do you want to give the nuclear codes back to the dog eating guy? there is a sentence that i don't think dean atchison ever uttered. i think in that zone we are is a very clear choice. i will say, i think this is important in what is going to be -- i don't want as to say euphoric day about those who believe in the constitution and saw in trump and the former president last night an example of -- a vivid manifestation why we don't want that. remember. vice president harris has now passed her test. we are now on trial. it's the american people now. nobody has hit the ball.

nobody -- it's all here. there was a woman on that stage last night who could absolutely be the president of the united states and there was a man who should not be. and so what are get going to do? >> donnie, we have talked for a long time on this show about people grading trump on a curve and giving them a pass. that is trump being trump you can't believe everything he says but he wants to be president of the united states again. we will not grade on a curve here and we don't grade on a curve. objectively based on what you saw not only from his performance but from her's, what is your take from last night? >> trump basically told us that what the world is going to look like is immigrants are going to eat your pets and execute babies after nine months and there will be no israeli and when asked about what he would do about the war in gaza, his answer was she hates israeli. they will will be no israeli. that was his solution. that is what he had to say. whereas, kamala harris gave a very impassioned and support of

israeli. talked in great deal about the horrors with terrorism of hamas and donald trump's answer was there will be no israel. it's fear mongering and nothing more than that. i watched as an american and as an american i was repulsed that he would not say the election was lost. he would not must down january 6th. i watched as a father. he would not say that he beat an abortion ban. i watched as a jew and i was highly disappointed and a reason three-quarters of jews are voting for kamala harris. >> reverend? >> when i ran in 2004, it was two things you do. one, you run to win which i knew i was unlikely going to win. are you running to push a vision and a way you want the country to go? donald trump did neither last night. he was trying to, in many ways, justify his past, tried to say

that 2020, he really won. still dealing with those grievances. he gave no vision. kamala harris not only won last night, i think she won the hearts of a lot of americans who maybe didn't understand what her vision was. she was clear on her vision. she would answer some of his statements and go right back to but this is where we need to go as a country. and then for him toer as donnie said and i agree, but also race bait. he didn't just say people are eating dogs. he said haitian immigrants are eating dogs. anybody black in that town looks like a haitian. he defended what he did to the central park five and i respect kamala harris for raising that, because he said that these people, these five young teenagers, young boys should have had the death penalty, when what happened to that white woman in central park was

despeckable and horrific. the death wouldn't cover the crime. he went into race baiting and went to it last night and went to our worst fears. if you're looking at this debate last night and you're looking at your children, because it is about the future and your grandchildren, who do you think has the temperament and the information to lead us during this time period where we are in such turmoil from ukraine to the middle east and you would not go with a guy who is race baiting and feel mongering. you go with a stable woman who could say, yes, this is where we are and we have to address it. this is where we need to go. that is why i think she won. she won she walked out and made him shake hands with her and he

had the nightmare of his life that he had to shake hands with a black woman as an equal and he couldn't get it back together after that. >> we are going to play that clip of the central park five in a moment, joe. >> brian celter reporting live on fox. trump insults not only the abc anchors but he insults the two fox anchors who have pitched his debate moderators and martha said he would not have them. he wants sean hannity and jesse waters or laura ingram. back to you, willie! >> no surprise, no surprise there. mike, as rev says a split screen last night. donald trump's performance allowed vice president harris to kind of sit there and look to the camera and then say, do you want this again? do you want to go back to this? are you watching these 90? we are not going back which has become mare problem refrain that we are not going back to this. a literal split screen.

never been on a stage and never met before. as we say voters who don't live in this world and not like us and look at every twist and poll and tune in at big conventions and debates and they settle in and begin to form their opinions and make decisions. as they settled in last night, what did they say? >> well, the visuals were stunning. the contrast between the two of them. one, more permanent scowl all evening long. the other, the vice president was a mixture of smiling, almost all night long, but wonderment and looking across at the person next to her on the stage and wonderment in her eyes and sometimes a feeling of sympathy in her eyes as if saying what is wrong with this guy? and what she was looking at, i would submit, was an old man walking himself in to our political past. an old man who at one point,

surrenders the presidency when he was asked a question about january 6th and his reply was, i wasn't in charge of security then. this was a former president of the united states saying he wasn't in charge of security then. sorry. but you were. this was an old man who spent a good part of the evening, once again, denigrating and running down the american dream, running down the united states of america. this is a third world country. this is a country in decline. i challenge donald trump today, who will be down at the 9/11 ceremonies in lower manhattan, along with president biden and vice president harris, to look around at what he sees and he will see a portrait of resilience and remembrance by everybody down there remembering a day that shocked america and

scarred this country forever. this is not a country in decline, donald. take a look around. >> yeah. well, he is too busy ranting without any control or boundaries or guardrails on fox news. >> by the way, attacking fox news on fox news. he has expanded that. >> kamala harris and joe biden are getting ready to recognize 9/11 as they should doing their jobs. joining us now is senior adviser to the harris/walz campaign is david plouffe and served as obama's campaign manager and white house adviser. >> david, let me read a statement from you, one you, obviously, lifted straight from the 2008 campaign against john mccain. eating dogs is not a winner but for undecided voters. actually, you never had to bring that one up. we are talking about how

unbalanced -- let's get to the facts and let's get to the actual data which i know you care about. what did you see with undecided voters in the dial groups? >> well, i think, joe, what we are seeing and i think there is also public undecided discussions that happened, is kamala harris really met the moment. the race is very close. it was yesterday and today and tomorrow. a lot of voters wanted to know more about her, her plans, her biography and i think wanted to know what donald trump's second term would be like. i think what they saw last night was kamala harris was focused on the american people and plans to build more housing and support small businesses and a deranged lunatic in donald trump who -- i always focus on the next day. kamala harris at the rally in philadelphia after he debate said great night and let's move on tomorrow. what will live on? a lot of things with eating dogs. one, he promised health care

plan back in 2015, a long typically ago and never came. he still wants to basically throws tens of millions of people off health care. people in swing states are going to hear about that very soon. obviously, the threat of a national abortion ban. he didn't say he wouldn't sign that. he is going to vote in florida and cast a vote for a six-week ban for many women to know they are pregnant. he did not say ukraine should not win the war. remarkable moments. yes, his insanity, his focus on himself, the same old lies and distractions that we have come used to. but i think he also made huge mistakes that people care about. so, again, it was a great night for kamala harris. she delivered, i think, historic debate performance but we are in a tied race today and what the campaign is focused on how to figure out to win enough votes in the states so she becomes owner next president. >> you've been through debates

about president obama and good and less good debates. probleg for us how this might impact actual voting in those states that you talked about but specifically which voting groups that you found it hard to reach in this campaign over the course of the last six weeks do you think might be persuaded by what they heard last night. >> well, i think, first of all, i was so impressed by kamala harris because she knew exactly -- she represented the people last night. i think she talked about people being exhausted with his tired old playbook and wanting to turn the page and she knew what she wanted the american people and the case she want to prosecute against donald trump. i think he is a universally known figure and where the race stands. he has a pretty high floor. sad that it's that high but that is reality. a lot of voters want to learn more about her. her biography and her plans for the future and her values and is she up to the test of being

commander in chief? i think she passed that last night, no question, i think she answered that. it's voters -- of all ages, races, you know, income so it's not that many but, you know, i always remind people it may be four or six or 8% but those are the folks that decide elections and it's two sides of the coin. one, there are people out there who are definitely going to vote who aren't sure who they are voting for. i think a lot of people last night were probably given a lot of confidence that kamala harris would be the right choice. a second group of voters who might say they are going to vote for kamala harris or donald trump but not sure they are going to vote. coming out of last night, anybody who basically -- i would vote for harris but not sure i'm going to vote is excited to do that. i think few weeks out there who might be infrequent voters softly in donald trump's camp who are going to demoralized by that performance, that is not an incentive to vote for someone

like that and give him another four years. >> claire mccaskill, as we sat here 24 hours ago together previewing the debate you had concerns about the expectations set high for vice president harris and confident she would do well. we sit here on the morning after, how did it play out from where you're sitting? >> i don't think it could have gone much better. let's, like, kind-of-back up. the argument that trump has been making about kamala harris is she is dumb, she's too scripted, and she is too weak to stand up to the thugs of the world. well, she pretty much dispatched all three of those last night in an elegant classy prepared fashion. anybody who watched that debate saw that she is not dumb. she certainly is not weak. and the way she yanked him around that debate stage and baited him over and over again and got him to respond to the

baiting that she was doing, he is trying to say she can't stand up to strong leaders? well, she sure stood up to him. and i think it's going to be really difficult now going forward for them to find a line of attack that has credibility because all they had, she demolished last night. and i will say to parents out there that have a young woman, a child or a niece or even grandparents that have a granddaughter, if she says she wants to be president, tell her to go be an assistant prosecutor and spend some time in a courtroom because you can sure see it last night. i saw it over and over again. so, david, now that she has destroyed their line of attack that i just went through, the only thing still out there is that she is not doing enough interviews. you know, it's lame. but it's kind of all they have got at this point.

how are you guys feeling about putting her out for more interviews in the next few weeks and, most importantly, how are you feeling about pushing for another debate? >> well, claire, i think first of all, let's talk about interviews. let's talk about donald trump today. i've not watched him but the reports you gave is on fox news complaining about the moderators. talk about weak. pathetic. desperate. so let's, by the way, he had five more minutes to speak than kamala harris, no small thing. secondly, he was fact checked on, wasn't there intricacies of their health care plan it was americans eating household pets and whether they have after-birth abortion. this is someone not fit to lead. and what we are seeing this morning, i think is what kamala harris did a really good job of exposing last night. he is focused on grievances. it's all about himself. claire, you know, kamala harris

did some radio interviews last week. she will continue to do interviews. presidential campaigns is interviews and going into battleground states and campaigning and she will be doing that later this week. voters will see her in many different forms we think is helpful. a lot of voters want to know a lot more about her and they are eager to hear. i think voters don't want to hear more from donald trump and particularly after last night. he said he is debating with fox news anchors and we will see how it plays out. >> senior adviser to the harris/walz campaign, david plouffe, thank you for coming on the show today. we appreciate it. we want to turn now to 9/11. today marks 23 years since the 9/11 terror attacks, if you can believe it.

president biden and vice president harris and former president trump will mark the day by attending a memorial ceremony this morning in new york city. biden, harris, and trump will also attend events in shanksville, washington, later today. the president and vice president will then end the day at a wreath laying ceremony at the pentagon. joining us now homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas who will be joining president biden and vice president harris in new york city this morning. as we remember -- it's hard to imagine this was 23 years ago. for me, it was like yesterday and for many others. as we remember what happened on 9/11, 23 years ago, what are the ways this country still needs to continue to be vigilant and mindful that our home land needs to be protected? >> good morning.

the threats in this country persist and foreign and domestic threats but what has not changed is the tireless dedication of 260,000 individuals in the department of homeland security. this is a somber day when we honor the lives lost on 9/11 and in the days, weeks, months, and years since. we in the department honor those lives every day through the work that we do. the terrorist threat requires vigilance. not only on our part, but on everyone's part to be alert and to respond when one sees something of concern. it requires a community of action. we are all one community. >> secretary mayorkas, good morning. your department, the one you head now was created after the attacks of 9/11 to increase that vigilance you were just talking

about. i wonder for americans who have not had the opportunity to go where you are standing right now i can hear the water behind you and the footprints of where those towers stood. what it's like. i've been there many, many times to stand at that memory to consider everything that happened there, to consider everything that happened after that day and to go through the museum, the extraordinary museum down there. can you just give people watching a sense of what it's like to stand there on this day? >> it is an extraordinarily solemn place. it is also a very inspiring one. it is solemn because we remember the horrific tragedy that has changed the life of our country and changed the lives of so many people. it is inspiring because our country still stands tall and still stands strong not only here but around the world. it speaks very powerfully of the

resolve of our nation and of our people. >> homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas, thank you so much. we going to be observing the moments of silence later this morning commemorating extraordinarily tragic attack 23 years ago. mika, i'd love to go down and get you and willie's thoughts, and mike's thoughts on that day. so many years ago. it's hard to believe. >> it is. i covered it for cbs and was down there for many weeks after watching the towers fall. i still have these terrible tensions of feelings about going home to my kids weeks after covering it. and the thousands of people who didn't go home in those seconds when those towers fell and when those planes crashed into the pentagon and in shanksville. and it's one of those markers in

your life. before 9/11 and after 9/11. >> yeah. no doubt. willie, it was very personal. so many of us that were outside the new york city area, you know, we grieved, we hung american flags. we came together as one. it was an extraordinary feeling that i had never felt before. just all americans together as one, it certainly teamed that way. for mika, it was very personal being down there as the towers were falling and reporting on it and being shoved away from the falling debris. for you, it was very personal as well and knowing people in your hometown that went to work that morning but never returned. >> i grew up in a commuter town in new jersey over the river. we had 12 people in our town die on 9/11, including my next door neighbor gina steinberg and her

daughter lori was my friend in kindergarten and the list is too long to name from our town. my beloved sister-in-law alice was in the building pregnant and ran down 70 flights of stairs getting out of the building just before it collapsed. and you i also think, mike barnicle, about the first responders who were so braved that day. 443 firefighters died. many more have died since from their nine months on the pile there from how sick they got and more members from the fdny have died from cancers. i think about the men and women from afghanistan and some who did not come home and some will bear the scars of their lives. the ripple of that day that continues on this day. >> the ripple of lives lost and lives that continue and many of the lives you just mentioned.

my wife was on a flight to new york. she had a scheduled 9:00 a.m. meeting at the world trade center that morning. her flight was reverted back to boston in mid air. there was an iconic photo taken of a ladder truck crossing the brooklyn bridge that morning heading toward a burning building, world tower one. the reason it's iconic i think to many people, certainly to me, is that you can see the firefighters holding on to the truck as it speeds across the bridge with no traffic in fronts of it. and an american flag ripping in the breeze behind it. all of those firefighters died that day, that morning in that building in those collapsed towers. the lives lost will always be remembered. today is a day of memory and resilience as we indicated earlier.

but the lives that are left, the lives that you just mentioned and the ripple of their lives, the meaning of their lives and what that day meant and meant to this country going forward, again, this is not a country in decline and part of the reason it's not in decline is because of the pride, the spirit, and the combativeness of the american spirit. >> that photo i believe was on the front page of the new york "daily news" a few days late and where i worked on september 11th. it feels like it was just yesterday. i think one thing beyond the sacrifice, beyond the sadness, there was that feeling for some weeks of national unity, rev, that we all together. we have become so divided and so fractured since then, every

often you see a glimpse of hope maybe we can be like that again. >> i think that is the story that we should have coming out of the day is the legacy of people did come together. i remember when 9/11 happened and after the trauma, i was campaigning for a candidate when i found out about it. the immediate trauma after that, a young man that went to church with my daughters stayed with us because his mother was in the building and died. for weeks every time the phone rang he was hoping it was his mother calling. he had to come to terms. he is now a minister. he had to come to terms that his mother wasn't coming back. i said, you know, now i understand terrorism. now i understand because this was the first time we experienced that on the home land. i called mort zuckerman on the daily news. i said i want to go to israeli. he arranged for perez to host me

in israeli and perez said you should not only denounce terrorism, he said you ought to meet with yasser arafat. he arranged for me to meet with arafat to denounce what osama bin laden had done. the point i make particularly after this debate is those terrorists didn't send an email to blacks to don't come to work at the world trade center and didn't tell latinos by text to stay away. they didn't care. they saw us all as americans. and we don't always see each other as americans. they saw in us what we didn't see in themselves. that is why it's important for people like joe and i who may have disagreed to stand together on what we agree and grow together. or even donnie and i. because that is where we had to be the day after 9/11 and we should never forget that. >> i was choked up listening to you talk. on the one hand, deep sorrow.

but incredible pride about who we are and the way we reacted and came together and it's over 20 years ago and it's a part of us and who we are. it showed the worst that can happen and it brought out the best of who we are and that is what one guy who is running for president doesn't understand the soul of this country and what we are about and we look forward and we believe in hope and we rise from the ashes and we build ourselves. he doesn't understand that and paints a society that we are anything about. >> president biden and vice president harris will be at ground zero a sort time from now. former president trump and jd vance will also be there. the towers fell to come and a moment of silence at the pentagon and shanksville, the

flight 93 going down on this day 23 years ago. we will be right back on "morning joe." years ago we will be right back on "morning joe." on compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust.

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blif. >> alive. >> you're time up. do you believe it's in the u.s. best interest for crane to win this war? yes or no. >> i think it's best for the u.s. to get this war finished and get it done and negotiate a deal because we have to stop all of these human lives from being destroyed. >> i want to this to vice president harris. i want to get your thoughts on support for ukraine in this moment but also as commander in chief, if elected, how would you deal with vladimir putin and would it be any different from what we are seeing from president biden? >> well, first of all, it's important to remind the former president you're not running against biden. you're running against me. >> you know, willie -- >> he never answered. >> another great example of questions asked. he sort of wanders. he talks about -- no, this is him wandering out in the pasture and walking around in circles and bringing up all of these bizarre facts, lies. you know? just random statements.

incomplete sentences. joe biden doesn't know he is alive? again, people not tuning in regularly to see his decline over the past several years. had it to be shock last night. >> yeah. also people who have been for the last couple of years following the war in ukraine saying, does he not want ukraine to win when this dictator in russia invaded illegallycivilia? he doesn't wanted ukrainians to win what most people view as a battle of good and evil. the reason he says he can end this when he comes in to office is because he'll just give vladimir putin what he wants. that is his guy and he'll settle and give putin the better end of that deal. rev, we talked about race coming up in this race. donald trump made comment about that happened in july when kamala harris turned to, quote, happened to turn black. the former president was asked

why he think it's okay to weigh in on his opponent's racial identity. >> i don't. i don't care. i don't care what she is. i don't care. you make a big deal out of something. i couldn't care less. whatever she wants to be is okay with me. >> but those were your words so i'm asking -- >> i don't know. all i can say i read where she was not black. that she put out. and i'll say that. and then i read that she was black. and that is okay. either one was okay with me. that's up to her. that's up to her. >> honestly, i think it's a tragedy that we have someone who wants to be president who has consistently, over the course of his career, attempted to use race to divide the american people. you know, i do believe that the vast majority of us know that we have so much more in common than what separates us and we don't want this kind of approach that is just constantly trying to divide us and especially by race and let's remember how donald trump started.

he was a land -- he owned land. he owned buildings. and he was investigated because he refused to rent property to black families. let's remember, this is the same individual who took out a full page ad in "the new york times" calling for the execution of five young black and latino boys who were innocent, the central park five. took out a full page ad calling for their execution. this is the same individual who spread birther lies about the first black president of the united states. and i think the american people want better than that, want better than this. >> this is the most divisive presidency in the history of our country. there has never been anything like it. they are destroying our country. and they come up with things

like what she just said. going back many, many years where a lot of people, including mayor bloomberg agreed with me on the central park five. they admitted and they pled guilty. i said, well, if they pled guilty, they badly hurt a person -- killed a person ultimately and if they pled guilty, then they pled-- well not guilty. this is a person who has to stretch back 40, 50 years ago because there is nothing now. >> rev, mayor bloomberg is sitting there going leave me out of this. i didn't call for the death penalty for five people who were later exonerated. it's hard to follow some of what he is saying there because he is having a little trouble putting sentences together. how did vice president harris handle that moment? >> i think she handle the defendant -- handled it beautifully because she laid out his track record from housing and discrimination in the real

estate that he and his father owned that were decided by the department of justice that they were engaged in and bigoted and racist ways in terms of the ways they rented their apartments. then she went into the central park five. you must remember that these young men went to jail for something they did not do and they were exonerated by dna evidence years later after they had done time in jail. and he called on their death penalty, when unlike he said, the lady didn't die. what happened was despicable, horrible but she did not die. there was no death penalty in new york when he bought the ad. then he began, he initiated his political life to run for president with birtherism and saying barack obama is not one of us and he is not a real american and now she is doing to kamala harris where she turned black a while ago.

race has always been at the center of how he played politics because that is who he is. and i think for her to point that out and then come back as to how we need to unite. the civil rights movement was not about black against white. it was about being equal so that we can all reconcile and build a country. and she kind of brought all of those strands together last night and i think that that was the right tone that she set, a tone that he is tone deaf to. >> donnie, democrats, harris campaign feel like she did well last night. she did well. i didn't hear any touchdown dancing here. i think this was viewed as a moment she proved to people who haven't been paying attention super closely she is up to the job and can stand up to the guy. what about here with over 50 days to go to election? >> if you're scoring at home, a couple of points. number one, truth social stock was down 15% last night and

you're basically betting on or against trump and betting line shifted to her last night. no matter what spin you have the numbers don't lie. look. you saw the contrast late night. i don't think any issue that wasn't unturned that didn't show one candidate that was presidential and upbeat and that was smart and was prepared and there was another candidate the opposite on every one of those things. you couldn't lens it any other way. if i'm her i continue the playbook. if i'm him -- when he is playing from behind and last night he was playing from behind he was on defense the whole night, he is really, really bad and you're going to watch and you'll see. he'll go back to talking about dogs again. i didn't really say that. he gets stuck. he will be stuck on the crowd sizes. i think this sets the table for another 60 days or whatever it is of unhinged former president. >> i mean it depends. it continues -- it depends on where the harris campaign goes. i will say if they continue to push him and they should

continue to push him and stay on offense, you see what happens this morning. he goes on fox news and he starts insulting fox news hosts and starts insulting fox news guests, and, suddenly, he said i'll only let two or three people help in debates. it's just, again, it's just a bad look. he forces fox news hosts to defend other fox news hosts on fox news. >> yeah. >> that is how far down the rabbit hole he has gone. >> that is the deal they have made. reverend al sharpton and donnie deutsche, thank you for being on this morning. let's bring here. tell us your thoughts about last night's debate. how did candidate kamala harris do? >> good morning. great to be with you. kamala harris demonstrated in clear and convincing fashion for the american people that she is ready, willing and able to be a

commander-in-chief for all americans to make life better for everyday americans and bring us into the future. >> leader jeffries, let me ask, she had a good debate and how did it change the race? >> well, it was a master class in being serious and substantive. for some americans, not all americans, this was a further introduction to them in the context of this presidential campaign. i think equally significant is vice president kamala harris continued to lie out a forward-looking agenda to build an opportunity economy, to lower costs, to grow the middle class, to stand up for small businesses

and stand up for entrepreneurs, and stand up for first-time home buyers in ways that will meet the needs of the american people. donald trump was stumbling, fumbling and bumbling throughout the entire debate throughout his best moments and had no forward-looking vision for the american people and it was all backward looking. >> trump refused to concede that he lost the 2020 election, and that with his rhetoric over the weekend, with a is your degree of concern, were here to lose this election, he could inspire the violence, even more so than what we saw four years ago?

>> that's a legitimate concern. he wants to impose a nation-wide abortion ban from the work the justices. there are serious concerns the american people have as it relates to our freedom and an economy that works for everyday americans and as it relates to democracy and the peaceful transfer of power. this is who donald trump is. he's not a patriotic american. he's all about himself and we saw that on full display last evening. kamala harris is about the american people. >> leader jeffries, earlier this year we saw donald trump killing the strongest border security bill in u.s. history even though

it was drafted in the united states senate by one of its most conservative members, oklahoma's james langford. yesterday morning we had speaker johnson saying he didn't want to shutdown the federal government but wanted to work and get a funding bill passed and trump comes out later in the day telling republican house members not to support the bill unless they have some bizarre measures jammed in there. what is your thought on that? do you think the government will end up being funded? >> us house democrats will work as hard as we can to make sure we can fund the government. at the same time, extreme maga republicans, led by donald trump, are determined to shut the government down unless they jam trump's project 2025 down

the throats of the american people. that's what this spending fight is all about. we reached a bipartisan agreement connected with the physical responsibility act signed into law and had a support by the majority of republicans last spring that sent the numbers for this fiscal year and next fiscal year. >> it's not even about that. donald trump last night, again, he continued the lie that hospitals kill, doctors kill babies who are born after nine months. there is now the big lie being spread that republicans want to stop illegal immigrants from voting and they have to stop a bill for illegal immigrants to vote, and it's already illegal for immigrants to vote, so what

is the reason for the exercise? >> the constitution does not permit noncitizens to vote in federal elections. that's clear. the bill being put forward by republicans, it shortchanges the department of defense by $6 billion and cuts $12 billion from veterans health care and also cuts funding to the administration of social security. they want to extract extreme cuts that will hurt veterans, hurt the military, hurt seniors and hurt the american people, and that always has been their agenda. >> all right, house minority leader, democratic congressman, hakeem jeffries of new york. thank you for being with us. the first issue to come up

last night at the debate between kamala harris and donald trump. we will talk with stephanie ruhle and andrew ross sorkin about each candidate's answers, including trump doubling down on his pledge to increase tariffs. and as we leave, we listen to "the year of the cat," and then "time" magazine with trump driving his golf cart into a sand trap. we will talk about the debate in two minutes. n't ♪ punch buggy red. ♪ even say why ♪ ♪ i am, i said ♪ ♪ ♪

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receive respected world leaders, and this former president, as president, invited them to camp david. >> wow. vice president kamala harris reacting to donald trump's conflicting foreign policy positions in last night's debate. we will talk about that and his false claims about migrants eating pets in ohio. we will show you that from last night's presidential debate and the live fact check from the moderators. plus, we will talk about the potential impact of the new superstar endorsement for kamala harris. we're back in just one minute.

in springfield, they are eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats, they're eating the pets of the people that live there and this is what's happening in our country and it's a shame. as far as rallies are concerned, as far as the reason they go, they like what i say. they want to bring our country back. they want to make america great again. it's a simple phrase. make america great again. she's destroying this country and if she becomes president this country doesn't have a chance of success, and not only a success, but it will be venezuela on steroids. >> abc news, we reached out to mayor there and -- >> i have seen people on

television. the people on television say my dog was taken and used for food, so maybe he said that and maybe that's a good thing to say for a city manager -- >> i am not taking this from television but from the city manager. >> yeah, and the dog was eaten -- >> talk about extreme. >> one of the most talked about moments from last night's debate. the former president repeating a false unhinged claim, which his campaign promoted that immigrants in springfield, ohio, are eating peoples' pets. >> eating dogs. >> yeah. >> and moments after the debate, global superstar, taylor swift, endorses kamala harris. >> it's not the beginning of the end, it's in the beginning, but

with taylor, maybe it is the beginning of the end. >> kind of. >> our job is to analyze the debate last night, and i must say one of the catchphrases that have come up this election cycle is sane watching, and you have mainstream media people trying their best to mold donald trump into a bob dole-like candidate, as if last night was any other debate. it just wasn't. you had one candidate that was completely unhinged, just completely off his rocker. he looked badly. he looked old. he looked disconnected from reality. he looked enraged and kept repeating the same things over and over again. made no sense. there was no preparation on his

side. he resorts to internet rumors already debunked just because he has nothing to say. one of the most ill prepared -- >> well, the most ill prepared candidates we have seen in one of these debates, and i have to say, hunched over, and his eye squinting. the split scene was extraordinary. for those people on any network and even those that get paid to lie about donald trump every day, there's no sane washing this and lying about this or pretending this is other candidate or this is any other election or that was any other debate. >> we have been encouraging not to grade donald trump on a curve. no, this guy wants to be president of the united states again. watch that debate last night and

ask yourself if that's a person who should be back in the white house, who should be near the nuclear codes. we will show all of these moments. just to summarize, the claim -- the person that took the photograph of the guy with the goose, he said that was not in springfield, and i have no idea if that guy was haitian or anything else. more debunking of that moment yesterday when former president trump was screaming about people eating dogs when it didn't happen, and he would not say whether he wants ukraine to win the war when asked many times, effectively siding with vladimir putin there. he defended his actions leading up to and on the day of january 6th and defended the mob that

december crated the capitol. he said why even attempt or rationalize calling for the death penalty for the pen that were exonerated. watch the 90 minutes last night and ask yourself which of those two people is more fit to be president. >> for anybody who is frustrated watching donald trump lie again and again unchecked, i will say that last night was validation finally. watching him get called out, not necessarily by the moderators, though they did make an attempt to try, although he talked over them and they didn't turn him off, but kamala harris was suburb, she was elegant and

classy and joyful and went right in there and baited him over and over and over again, and he fell for it every time. i think the moment that really was the unraveling was when she invited all americans to attend a trump rally, and to see the lies in person, and to see how tired and boring the rallies are, to hear about hannibal lecter and other things and he lost it from there on. we can play that. >> let's play it real quick. >> take a look. >> and i'm going to do something really unusual and i will invite you to attend one of donald trump's rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch. you will see during the course of his rallies he talks about fictional characters like hannibal lecter and that windmills cause cancer and people leave his rallies early

out of exhaustion and boredom, and one thing you will not hear him talk about is you, your needs and desires, and i pledge to you i will put you first. >> let me respond to the rallies. she said people started leaving. people don't go to her rallies. there's no reason to go. the people that do go, she buses them in and pays them and shows them in a different light. people don't leave my rallies. we have the biggest rallies in the history of politics, and people want to take the countries back, and it happened 3 1/2 years ago, and what is going on here, you can end up in world war iii. as far as rallies are concerned, as far as -- the reason they go is they like what i say. they want to bring our country back. they want to make america great again. it's a simple phrase.

make america great again. she's destroying this country, and if she becomes president, we will become venezuela on steroids. >> it went downhill from there. he couldn't handle hearing his rallies are boring and people get up and leave. >> willie, it's interesting, when you are listening to music and you are trying to find out what is going on in a performance, and quincy jones always told people, turn your back to people performing or close your eyes, and here, i would say just the opposite. if you want to get exactly where a debate is going, turn the sound off, use your eyes and visually the split screens are

so stark. when you do that, you see kamala harris smiling, mocking, putting her hand under her chin going, are you really saying that? one moment in that bizarre exchange about dog eating, she looked like she was feeling sorry for the man because he was so detached from reality. >> he wouldn't look at her. if you go through the 90 minutes -- >> look at that. >> yeah, he's scowling. he's uncomfortable. i think, john, one of the big tells, and we have heard from a lot of republicans who concede privately that just went terribly for donald trump, and actually i heard praise for kamala harris' performance even from republicans, and democrats obviously excited about it. 30 minutes into the debate we saw online and on the front page of the newspaper, it was the moderator's fault. a handful of times they fact

checked trump on egregious lies, and donald trump showed up in the spin room to re-imagine what happened in the room last night. the harris campaign calling immediately for a second debate. we will see if there's a second debate. they feel confident about it. the trump campaign blaming the moderators -- >> if you show up to the spin room, you have lost. if you blame the moderators, you have lost. and trump was noncommittal on debating harris again. and the split screen was good for harris, smiling and acting almost in disbelief that i am sharing the stage with somebody like that, and she walked over with a handshake and he didn't expect it. the first 15, 20 minutes,

talking about the economy, and then once they started talking about abortion, which trump twisted himself in knots and he made clear he was proud of the supreme court justices that he nominated that overturned roe v. wade before falsely claiming all americans wanted the issue settled by the states, and the vice president scored some points there. there were so many moments there where she got the best of him. he looked old. he looked out of touch. he looked like he was speaking, joe, to just a small republican ecosystem, not winning over any new votes at all. >> yeah. that's what is so bizarre. >> it took a while to get there last night, but he was asked not just about january 6th where he defended his actions, but he was asked about the 2020 election, and he repeatedly would not say he lost. >> and for people again that have to licon stuntly, trying to

normalize donald trump, there's so much they can't run away from. his own campaign staff begging him to stop lying about the stolen election, and he could not say he wanted ukraine to push back the russian invaders. he would not say repeatedly whether he was going to push a national ban for abortion on american women. would not say it. was asked afterwards as he was leaving the debate. he would not answer that question on whether he supported a national ban or not. you go down the list. he -- he, time and time again, would not say he did anything wrong on january 6th. again, there was nothing normalized about him. his performance was absolutely terrible, and there were many

people who actually dared to say the truth, it was the worst debate performance in history and you had a lot of trump supporters on social media saying it was one of the worst performances in history. you could blame abc moderators. you can't get past that, seriously? is he going to take on dictators all over the world and can't handle the truth about eating cats in springfield, ohio. >> we are going to sneak in a quick break. on the other side, our panel weighs in on another big moment from last night's debate. donald trump's nonanswer on whether he would veto a national abortion ban. we're back in 90 seconds.

welcome back to "morning joe" as we break down last night's presidential debate between donald trump and vice president harris. joining the conversation we have, the bbc's katty kay, and eugene robinson, and cco of the mussina group, and john heilemann. >> let's go around the table. anybody that has won a pulitzer prize -- >> your thoughts? >> kamala harris from the beginning, the opening minute was the alpha female on the

stage. first of all, she took charge of the debate such as it was. she got her points across while at the same time she knew exactly what buttons to push to bring the insanity out of donald trump. the crowd size, the -- you know, john mccain. >> being a disgrace, military leaders calling him a disgrace. >> using that term, disgrace. >> looking right at him. >> looking right at him, and he wouldn't look down. it was the most comprehensive beat-down i have seen on the debate stage, and including the biden debate, and biden beat himself. trump didn't do it. if there were a mercy rule it would have been called after the first 45 minutes. >> it would have been called very early.

let's play a clip right now on abortion. >> here we go. >> the reason i'm doing that vote is because the plan is, as you know, the vote is, they have abortion in the ninth month. they even have, and you can look at the governor of west virginia, the previous governor of west virginia, not the current governor, he's doing an excellent job, but the governor before, he said the baby will be born and we will decide what to do with the baby, we will execute the baby, and that's why i did that. they are radical, the democrats are radical in that. her vice presidential pick, which was a horrible pick for our country, because he's really out of it, and her pick said abortion in the ninth month is fine, and execution after birth -- it's an execution not an abortion because the baby is already born. >> there's no state in this

country where it's legal to kill a baby after it's born. >> let's understand how we got here. donald trump hand selected three members of the united states supreme court with the intention they would undo the protections of roe v. wade, and they did exactly as he intended. now in over 20 states there are trump abortion bans, which make it criminal for a doctor or nurse to provide health care in one state it provides prison for life. trump abortion bans that make no exception for rape or incest. understand what that means. a survivor of a crime of a violation to their body does not have a right to make a decision about what happens to their body next. that's immoral. one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government and donald trump certainly should not be telling a woman

what to do with her body. i have talked with women around our country. you want to talk about this is what people wanted. pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term suffering from a miscarriage and being denied care in the emergency room because the health care providers are afraid she might go to jail and she's bleeding out in a car in the parking lot. she didn't want that. her husband didn't want that. a 12 or 13-year-old survivor of incest, being forced to carry a pregnancy to term. they don't want that. i pledge to you, when congress passes a bill to put back in place the protections of roe v. wade, as president of the united states, i will proudly sign it into law. but understand, if donald trump were to be re-elected, he will sign a national abortion ban, and understand in his project 2025, there would be a national -- a monitor that would be monitoring your pregnancies,

your miss miscarriages. i believe the decision about one's own body should not be made by the government. >> it's a lie. i am not signing a ban. there's no reason for a ban. we have gotten what everybody wanted, democrats, republicans and everybody else and every legal scholar wanted it to be brought back in the states and the states are voting. it may take a little time, but for 52 years this issue has torn our country apart, and they have wanted it back in the states and i did something that nobody thought was ausable. the states are now voting. what she says is an absolute lie. as far as the abortion ban, no, i am not in favor of an abortion ban, but it didn't matter because this issue has now been taken over by the states. >> would you veto a ban --

>> i won't have to. two things, she said she would go back to congress and would get the vote and it's impossible, especially with it being 50/50 in the senate and house -- >> he's lying. through that answer he keeps lying, and kamala harris just very plainly put out there, katty kay, the bitter truth, that what trump has done to women's health in america is monstrous. she very eloquently but clearly put out there what is happening in doctors offices and emergency rooms across the country thanks to him. >> i thought in her strongest answers, that was the strongest. she started with the policy and took it to the personal and turned it back to donald trump and i would have loved for her to have the opportunity to push her again for his response to

those women bleeding out in emergency rooms or the young kids that have been crossed along border lines. my colleagues were with swing voters, and several minutes felt that was the moment they would turn for kamala harris. it does turn out if you are going to do a debate for the presidency of the united states, it's worth preparing. he didn't prep. that showed time and again throughout the course of the debate. there were moments he could have pushed harder on afghanistan or on the administration's record on prices and affordability. he just didn't do it. there were openings for him to take something and he had not prepared. that was so obvious. >> i think it started to freak him out. >> he just didn't know how to make his points. >> let's not whitewash history. he's never prepped for everything. his staffers said they couldn't

put a one pager in front of him in the white house because he wouldn't read it. he was not capable of prepping and is not capable of learning the issues. he doesn't know them. he's as shallow as anybody that ever has stepped on to a debate stage and it showed. talk about that, and also that last answer, while that clip was being played that her answer on abortion would be one in the future that candidates would be shown. >> absolutely. 30 years from now people will show those clips of kamala harris ripping him apart on abortion as the prototypical way how to do this. the substance and passion and looking straight at him, and the stories about the emergency room, you could see swing voters moving. we have not seen an asreus

ration like this in modern history. it's unbelievable what that was and how they did it. you continue to watch him. in the leadup to the debate, the harris campaign kept saying we are going to bait him. we are going to bait him. the first time she did on crowd sizes, he collapsed and went into the worst version of him, the version that every voter worried existed. the debate was over on those two issues, abortion and crowd size. >> there was no question that was a pivotal moment. she was planting that seed about crowds leaving his rallies, and as many people noted last night, that became a rally version of donald trump, which is to say talking about these obscure subjects that the average normal voting that we like to call them

here, they are asking, what is he talking about? john heilemann, you are in philadelphia and was in the spin room last night. what was the sense from both, the trump campaign and the harris campaign afterward? >> well, good morning. you know, joe talked before about how you watch something, an old political consultants debate, watch it with the sound off and you can get a feel, and that's true. that was the case with this debate. and the activity in the spin room where the trump forces were dejected, defeated, deflated, despairitted. matt gaetz, it looked like a

shot -- this is what defeat looks like, folks. these people have been talking about donald trump before the debate like he's mohammad ali, and she looked like they had their dogs and cats eaten over the course of that debate. >> oh, my god. >> and it's also the case, i will tell you, i can report definitively, there was one point in the trump war room and harris war room, and we were looking at their dial groups in real time last night, and the dial groups last night showed the same thing, that in real time the undecided voters they were looking at, harris crushed trump throughout the night. i mean, david binder and david

pluth are not champagne popping guys, but their attitude was that of metaphorical champagne popping, and there was an overwhelming sense is -- i titled the podcast i have coming up this morning slaughterhouse 45. it was as thorough of a demolishment i have ever seen. the vote is very elastic. will we see movement in the polls? i don't know. i will tell you this, the harris campaign, they had a number of objectives here, and one was the further introduction of her, and they did some work on that last night, and they did some work last night and i heard it from

elected democrats all over the country, which is this is a test of plausibility, and this is a test where she had to have 90 minutes where i could picture that person as the president of the united states. and that test she passed with flying colors. that's what bill clinton, obama, they said your first presidential debate, you need to command the stage. what people remember is command. who are people going to remember about who commanded this first debate? kamala harris commanded the first debate. donald trump, when he attacked her, as key a moment when the dogs and cats moment was, look what he did like at the end of the speech, he said in the 86th minute of the 90-minute debate, he did what he was supposed to do at the beginning, you are joe biden and related to his

policies, and he said it in such a clumsy way, and she was able to knock it back with a hand flick, and she said, i am obviously not joe biden, sir. that was that. that is one of the things he was supposed to do is say, she has his record and economic policies, and it's like joe biden forgot how to frame the debate in atlanta. coming u jb pritzker. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ment

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we had -- it was very interesting. it showed how weak they are and pathetic they are and what they are doing to destroy our country and the border with foreign trade and with everything. i think it was the best debate -- personally, that i have had. >> jake, i didn't think i was

ever going to witness a debate as devastating as the one that you and dana moderated back in june where joe biden basically tanked his re-election campaign. i think tonight was just as devastating. i think kamala harris pitched a shutout on almost every subject i can think of. she shut trump down on abortion and shut trump down on january 6th on democracy and shut him down on national security and turned to the former president and said the military leaders that served with you think you are a disgrace. as dana mentioned, very powerfully at the end made the point she's the candidate of change and we need to turn the page from a decade of division and polarization on substance, i think she pitched a shutout and on style as well. the image of the debate to me is she's there happy, smiling, expressive, shaking her head, in

display of things trump was saying. trump looked angry and scowling. she was looking directly at the audience. he was looking at the moderators and arguing with them. something else, donald trump looked old tonight. >> yeah. >> make no mistake about it, trump had a bad night. he rose to the debate repeatedly when she baited him, and in the first debate when biden attacked him, he kept his cool and kept going, and in this debate he rose to that, and she came out of this is good shape. how long this will last is anybody's guess, but for tonight at least, this was pretty much her night. >> gene robinson, the refs have called it was unanimously a ko.

>> yeah. >> people can be screaming from the cheap seats and blaming -- >> blame the moderators, who, i think, interjected three facts or something like that to correct the egregious and horrible and stupid lies. >> they let him jump in many times. >> even in the spin room and it was probably his decision to go into the spin room, you could see how rattled hes and my best debate -- obviously nobody is going to think that. he's so used to being able to sort of create his own weather, create his own reality. it was kamala harris who did that last night, starting with the handshake, starting with going into his space and compelling him to shake hands with her. he was -- i think he was off balance from that moment, to tell you the truth. >> yeah. >> he realized he was not in control of anything on that

stage. >> right. >> srtly was not in control of himself when she pushed his buttons. >> right. >> it's hard to imagine how it could have gone worse for him. i suppose she could have passed out or something like that, but it was just as bad as you could think. >> i mean, you know, jim, the weirdos, insurrectionists and freaks as i called them, the people that lie for a living trying to prop up this -- >> oh, they are struggling. >> they are struggling. the fact is the truth is in the dial groups, as you said, and also in the reaction from trump's campaign. he did everything they have been begging him not to do. bret haoupl was talking about it. repeatedly they asked him to stay away from the hot button issues and he even went after the dogs. seriously, a completely unhinged

performance. physically, as bret hume and chris wallace said, he looked old. >> yeah, that's what they didn't want. she passed the commander-in-chief test. after barack obama saw him after the debate with mccain, it was over after that. she was able to bring into the race the future versus the past. clinton would call me up in the middle of the night and says all elections are about the future, and win the future and you win the election. he played into that. continuing to litigate the 2020 election. voters hate that. it's not about them. that's about him. he just continued to double down on it over and over doing himself damage that even he couldn't get out. you know you are in trouble in

the campaign when you have to put the candidate in the spin room to spin himself. that's a panic moment. coming up, we will pause for a moment of silence on this 23rd anniversary of the september 11th terrorists attacks. live coverage from the site of the world trade center in lower manhattan when "morning joe" comes right back. he told us who he was. should abortion be punished? there has to be some form of punishment. then he showed us. for 54 years, they were trying to get roe v wade terminated. and i did it. and i'm proud to have done it. now, donald trump wants to go further with plans to restrict birth control, ban abortion nationwide, even monitor women's pregnancies. we know who donald trump is. he'll take control. we'll pay the price. i'm kamala harris, and i approved this message. you'll find them in

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faster and easier than ever. that's what i do. is that love island? we are about to observe a moment of silence at 8:46 a.m. eastern time to mark the moment terrorists flew american airlines flight 11 into the north tower of the world trade center on september 11th, 2001. it would take only seconds for new york police and fire crews to arrive on scene and begin immediate evacuations. at 9:03, the attackers then flew united airlines flight 175 into the south tower.

it collapsed 56 minutes later. at 9:37, american airlines flight 77 was flown into the western side of the pentagon. 189 people were killed in that attack. 64 onboard the plane and 125 inside the building. at 10:03, after passengers and crew of hijacked flight 93 learned what was happening on the ground, they fought back crashing the plane into an open field in shanksville, pennsylvania. at 10:28, 102 minutes after being struck by flight 11, the north tower collapsed. you can imagine the loss as reporters showed up at hospitals to find nobody. here now is that moment of silence.

[ bell tolling ] ♪♪ ♪♪

♪♪ we're watching the remembrance of 9/11 taking place right now in new york city, at the site of ground zero. there's a lot that happens here, given that the attack happened in four separate places. the reading of the names, though, the names of those that died, 2,977 people were killed in the attacks overall. thousands more were injured. the reading of the names really captures the magnitude of this attack. willie geist, i talk about the reporters showing up at local

hospitals during and right after the attack because i was one of them, and i could not believe that there was just nobody there. there were empty stretchers and people waiting and that's when i realized everybody was in the towers or in those planes where they had rushed in there to try and save lives, losing their own. >> yeah, that was so haunting. you are right to point that out which is the hospitals were on high alert across the city down in manhattan, and after the doctors were there and ambulances ready to move and nobody came, because now we know that anybody that was in that building, a certain part of the building when the plane hit, and obviously everybody on the planes themselves were killed, and there was nobody to bring to the hospital. this is now the reading of the names. a tradition where families from start to finish read the names of all of the victims.

we see even in that moment of silence families lifting photographs, the images that were haunting and plastered all over manhattan, and putting the faces of their brothers, sisters and children and parents up all over the city. if you have seen them, please tell them we are looking for them, and those people never came home and now their names are -- every year, in a heartbreaking but beautiful tradition their names are spoken out loud again. we saw the faces in the moments of the service members, the ripples of that that day and continue to inspire us, who rushed into danger and gave their lives, all the first responders who died since because of the work they did on that toxic pile for months after, first responders in the fire department of new york, in

the police department, of course, all the people who volunteered for months and months and gave their time and effort and in some cases ultimately their lives to look for survivors and clear that site and then, john, of course, we think of the members of the military, the men and women who went to afghanistan as we were all shaken and stirred and scared, the people who had the courage and the patriotism to say, where are we going? how soon can we leave? to do something about this. we think about those who died in iraq and afghanistan, think about the people who came home with scars, seen and unseen, that they carry with them today and of course the families of all the victims whose lives were changed forever, in many cases shattered by what happened that day. >> so many of those military service members signed up on september 11th or september 12th because of what had happened that day and how they felt it was their duty, their patriotic duty to do something, to do

something to respond. certainly there are a few thousand now 23 years ago, a few harrowing images that feel like they were just yesterday, how blue the sign was that day, those missing posters that you mentioned that were hung up particularly in lower manhattan around the hospital there, since closed. i, like mika, was also in a hospital that day, the rows of empty hospital beds, the rows of stretchers, doctors and nurses waiting for patients who never came. and then later in the day just the unending smoke, the smoke that came up from the ground, what became known as ground zero, the smoke that stayed in the area for weeks and months, the smell that came with it, we will never forget that. we should note as the families are reading the names of those who were lost that day we do see president biden, we see vice president harris there as been. donald trump and his running mate j.d. vance also there. politics set aside, at least for these moments, mika, and what is always every year just such a

heart-wrenching, somber and yet noble ceremony. >> willie and john, you bring back such vivid images of that day that are really -- that will stay with me forever. that blue sky, it was the most beautiful day, first week of school for so many kids, such a hopeful time, such fresh air, kind of a sense of renewal in the air and then this happened. and i remember there were two real moments of realization as to what was going on in realtime and that was down underneath the twin towers, such a powerful representation of what americans, what people can do when they build something, and the force and the precision of that attack, looking up at those towers as the first one started crumbling and rolling down toward me i remember being frozen in my spot looking straight up at it because i could not believe what was happening, and a colleague,

byron pitts, at cbs had to grab my arm and drag me away. the second was inside a school and this story is really pertinent to the names being read right now. we were hiding, but also giving water to and interviewing firefighters who were coming into the school, getting a breath of air, getting a drink of water and then marching right back into the towers before the second one fell. and there was one firefighter doing an interview with us and he begged us to tell his wife that he loved her, and then he turned around and marched back into the towers, never to be seen again. those were the moments i realized this was like nothing we had ever seen before, and all of those firefighters and cops walking in there were not going to walk out.

we're listening to the live reading of the names of the victims of 9/11, the remembrance ceremony in new york city, marking the moments 23 years ago today. we will be right back with more "morning joe." ve to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement.

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one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government and donald trump certainly should not be telling a woman what to do with her body. >> people don't leave my rallies. we have the biggest rallies, the most incredible rallies in the history of politics. that's because people want to take their country back. she wouldn't even meet with netanyahu when he went to congress to make a very important speech. she refused to be there because she was at a sorority party of hers, she wanted to go to the sorority party. >> it is absolutely well-known that these dictators and

autocrats are rooting for you to be president again because they are so clear, they can manipulate you with flattery and favors. >> flattery and favors. and she controlled the night and she controlled the night in large part never being able to pin -- be pinned down on the past three and a half years by donald trump because donald trump was off on his own somewhere that even his supporters and some of his most ardent apologists didn't figure out. the "wall street journal" editorial page writing this morning, trump spent much of the debate talking about the past or about joe biden or about immigrants eating pets, but not how it improved the lives of americans over the next four years. and that neatly summarizes why the debate was such a mess for him last night. >> i mean, anyone who is trying to spin this that donald trump somehow won the debate last night, which i hear some are

saying, they're flat outlying. that was just some of what we saw last night in philadelphia during the first debate between vice president kamala harris and former president donald trump. we're going to break down more of the big moments from the debate stage straight ahead. chris matthews is going to join us here in washington. but first, on this 23rd anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, we're about to observe another moment of silence, it will come in just two and a half minutes at 9:03 a.m. to mark the exact moment united airlines flight 175 crashed into the south tower. the building would collapse 56 minutes later. a separate moment of silence will mark that moment at 9:59 a.m. the third moment of silence this hour comes at 9:37 when american airlines flight 77 crashed into the western side of the pentagon.

189 people were killed in that attack, 64 on board the plane and 125 inside the building. so as we prepare to observe that moment of silence, joining us now columnist and associate editor for the "washington post" david ignatius. before we look forward, take us back to that day. >> and, david, let's take note right after 9/11 and the years that followed we would see the children of those lost reading their names. now we're seeing the grandchildren of those lost reading the names. >> that was a day that transformed our country, that taught us, i think all of us as we watch the events happen, something about the nature of evil in the world, something about the nature of power and the need to respond to evil. i think, mika, your earlier

segment, just remembering, remembering what people saw against the names of the people who died, it is the simplest testimony to what happened. in the aftermath of 9/11 our country made a lot of mistakes, we did things that as we look back were unwise, we fought battles that were unnecessary, we went through a long period of wars that left the country weaker in some ways, but at the heart of it is that moment and the memory of those buildings going down and knowing we're under attack. >> and let me say we made a lot of mistakes, mika, the biggest challenge right now is america finds that moment that we found after 9/11 and come together as a country again. >> let's pause now for the moment of silence.

[ bell ringing ] [ moment of silence ] >> and my grandfather fdny captain james j.corgan. we love and miss you so much. me and my three sisters wish we got to meet you. >> willie, obviously, again, we are moved by these events every year and, again, we are now seeing the grandchildren of those lost on september 11th.

and so much -- so much has happened since that fateful morning and as david said, we made many mistakes, we've gotten a lot of things wrong as a country, we've gotten quite a few things right as a country, but if you talk to people that are usually like david ignatius assessing what the challenges of america -- you know, the challenges facing america, many will say, as richard haass has said, that america's greatest challenges now come from within. that we must unite together as a people where we can once again disagree without being so hateful and so disagreeable, and that we can once again find the spirit that moved us through the days and weeks and months following september 11th. >> yeah, it feels a long way away, 23 years after, doesn't

it? that spirit that we shared. yeah, i was struck, too, as you see the young man on the right here and the sweet young woman who spoke a minute ago about not getting to meet her grandfather. 23 years is a generation, it's a lot of time and now we're into the grandkids and not just the kids. again, when they take that wide shot and you see photographs that are being held up, just the variety of firefighters, police officers, members of the military who were sent to afghanistan and then iraq to do something about what happened on that day and the courage and the patriotism they showed. there are a lot of numbers, you know, we talk about almost 3,000 people died on 9/11, but this is a family by family human tragedy that extends from the people who lost loved ones on that day, including the firefighters who courageously rushed into the buildings, to the service members who died later in the wars that were fought because of it and these are families that

this doesn't go away. if it recedes from the collective or popular memory, it doesn't. you know, i think about the young son of one of our friends in our town who died who was 14 years old, a freshman in high school. when somebody came to the classroom door at his high school and said, johnny, we need to talk to you, there's been an attack where your dad works, and that's just one story among thousands of people whose lives were totally shattered, totally reshaped, totally changed by what happened on that terrible, terrible day. >> it is so hard to explain to my children as whenever we are in manhattan and driving downtown, it is so hard to explain what the days and the weeks and the months following this horrid attack were like, but i always, david, keep going

back to my feeling and mika has talked about this before, she was down there for so many weeks afterwards, but my feeling immediately following september 11th, and i think i was there a couple of weeks after, and just walking downtown, silence. no horns honking. no commotion. and i said to my children, i said, lower manhattan was like a cathedral. it was like a cathedral that still housed the souls of the dead of that day and people from across america would come together, whether it was fire trucks rushing up from alabama or people from the midwest rushing in to do whatever they could to help, to help new yorkers. we came together as one in this

great cathedral that was lower manhattan. >> so, joe, that's a beautiful image, i've never thought of lower manhattan after that terrible catastrophe as a cathedral, but you're right. you know, look, the light rayed with dust, the sun looked a little different. i think the wonderful thing about remembering 9/11 today and each year in recent years is it reminds us where we want to be as a country. it reminds us of what unity feels like and i don't want to overlay talk being 9/11 with today's politics, that just seems wrong, but we do know that being together as one country is what is broken in recent years.

>> and it is all right, david, for us to say we want to come together as a nation again -- >> yes. >> -- like we did following that. i remember seeing an image, one of the first shocking images of people coming out from ground zero after the buildings fell and i noticed that there was dust, they were covered with dust, they were covered with the remains of those buildings, probably the remains of the people, and not being able to tell whether they were white or black or indian american or asian. and i remember 23 years ago looking at that image, saying, my god, that's how god sees us. he can't tell the difference. but i knew in that picture that every one of those people were americans. americans that we all instinctively wanted to protect from that ever happening again.

>> i think we all say a prayer on this anniversary, but we should every day that unity and sense of all being part of one country, e pluribus unum, out of many one, that's our core idea, is still strong and alive. you know, i felt, to go back to the other thing that's on our mind, the debate last night, i did feel that voice of let's turn the page, let's be one people, let's go back to our best shelves. i heard it expressed as well as i have in many years and it does -- it does connect in a straight line with the emotions we had 23 years ago when this had terrible event happened.

>> and with everybody gathered now at ground zero in manhattan are doing now, which is remembering together those who died, whether it was people working inside the towers or the first responders who selflessly just out of a sense of complete duty went running into them, knowing -- many of them knowing -- they wouldn't make it out. and, willie, today we celebrate those people who tried to save lives and we remember their service and their efforts and also the weeks after 9/11 when everybody seemed to come together and speak the same language, which was how to help each other through this. >> yeah, and there was a moment just a couple of minutes ago, i'm in no way suggesting we have recaptured the spirit of september 12th, but there was a moment given what we saw last night on the debate stage in philadelphia where donald trump and vice president harris did

shake hands, pats her on the hand there, smiles at her. obviously this is one moment, one event, those two president biden, former president trump separated only by mayor bloomberg, a handshake between vice president harris. john, fascinating to see that. not surprising the way it should be here at ground zero, but given where we were 12 hours ago on that debate stage. >> it is nice that this is the one day or at least one morning every fall, every campaign season where politics is set aside. you will recall in 2016 donald trump and hillary clinton had a similar moment, they were both there amid that fierce campaign. as we watch the ceremony here one of the decisions made right there in 2002 for the first anniversary of the september 11th attacks and i was there covering it was that there would be no political speeches, no politician would get up near a microphone. mike bloomberg who was mayor at the time and oversees a lot of this with the 9/11.

loved, relatives reciting the names of the lost, no political speeches, no attempts to make political speeches are set aside for this one morning every fall. >> as we watch the names being read, some by family members who are old enough to remember this, who lost somebody and you can see on their faces how much this still hurts 23 years later. we are going to take a quick break. when we come back, we're going to go through the big moments from the debate stage last night in philadelphia. chris matthews joins the discussion. plus, the latest consumer inflation report was released moments ago. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin and msnbc's stephanie ruhle will join us to break down what those numbers mean for the u.s. economy. we will be right back. numbers m economy. we will be right back.

announcer: kamala harris was given one important job as vice president - monitor and control our southern border. how did she do? did she take the job seriously? did she do all she could to protect american citizens from an invasion? did she do anything at all? lester: you haven't been to the border. harris: and i haven't been to europe. i don't understand the point that you're making. announcer: here's her grim score card: murders, rapes, attacks on children.

a 12-year-old girl in texas. a mother of five in maryland. a nursing student in georgia. all savagely murdered by those biden and harris let into our country unlawfully. harris: we have a secure border. announcer: kamala harris was and is a complete failure at her job. now she's asking us for a promotion. who in their right mind would give it to her? restoration pac is responsible for the content of this advertising.

so just a yes or no, you still do not have a plan? >> i have concepts of a plan. i'm not president right now.

but if we come up with something, i would only change it if we come up with something that's better and less expensive and there are concepts and options we have to do that, and you will be hearing about it in the not too distant future. >> mika -- >> nine years. nine years. >> concepts of a plan. >> nine years. >> he's been saying that -- >> no plan. >> not only donald trump but republicans have been talking about their alternative plan coming up. repeal and replace. we've been hearing about that since the affordable care act passed. republicans have had nothing to replace it with and donald trump admitting last night, mika, he still has no plan. >> he keeps saying that. >> by the way, he was president for four years. >> remember the joke -- >> and they had no plan. >> in two weeks we're going to be announce that go in two weeks. we are going to have more on this in two weeks. in two weeks turned into nine

years. >> nine years. >> he has nothing. >> let's bring in democratic governor j.b. pritzker of illinois. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. what were the highlights to you of last night's debate? >> well, i have to say there was a massive contrast here. it was like darkness and light on the stage and you have to admit that when you listen to donald trump it was just one lie after another. putting aside the craziness of people eating dogs and cats that he was talking about, you know, there was -- there were just the consistent lies about, oh, he is the one who saved obamacare. the exact opposite, it was john mccain, we all remember. it was donald trump that was trying to rip apart health care across the country. and then don't forget the lies that he was telling about what he did to save americans during the covid-19 pandemic.

he was the one who caused so many problems for so many people and frankly we lost more than a million people in part because of his failings. i was in the middle of that. i made calls to the white house. i got no help here in illinois from donald trump. so i can tell you about the lies. i lived through those and had to fight through that for, well, an entire year. >> governor, you talk about the affordable care act and john mccain. all he did after john mccain voted no when donald trump was trying to abolish the affordable care act is attack and ridicule john mccain after that attack and ridicule john mccain while he was dying. attack and ridicule john mccain after he was buried. it continued. and you talk about darkness versus light, that was last night. darkness versus light. grimness versus joy. but also as a politician you can speak to the importance of this,

the past versus the future. and every campaign is about the future, isn't it? >> it is. and, again, you know, weak and pathetic on one side of the stage and strong and presidential on the other side of the stage. we need somebody who is talking about how do you lift up middle class americans, working class americans, the most vulnerable in our country? donald trump didn't talk about that at all, it was just grievance after grievance. we should have come to expect this, but i must say, you know, before the debate i really felt like he had a real chance at winning that debate because he's great at, you know, misdirection, right? he can somehow change the subject and people follow him to the craziness. the reality is that kamala harris managed to stay on message. yep, she pointed out the lies, but she managed nevertheless to, you know, keep that to a minimum and get back to the question of

what is she going to do to help people buy a home? what's she going to do to put money back into young families' pocketbooks so that they can afford to have a family? what's she going to do to lower prices in the united states? i think she did a terrific job and i must say she so far exceeded expectations and frankly i don't know if he met or, you know, came below what i thought were kind of, you know, medium expectations for him, but either way i talked to my son this morning who is in college and we both agreed that the differential was so huge that you can't help but think that there were voters who really moved. maybe they just moved to undecided from leaning trump, maybe they moved from undecided to leaning toward kamala harris or i think many people moved to kamala harris because she got -- they got to know her in that 90 minutes. >> that's what the data showed in the focus groups and people with dials on both sides, mika,

that the undecideds as david plouffe said wasn't even close. >> j.b. pritzker, thank you very much. to your point and i will precede what i'm being b. to say was that she was heavy on her facts, on information, on experience, on what to say about donald trump's record, and what her own plans were. so now i'm going to go into the next part of this which is the optics of it because this is tv and donald trump was, until last night, the king of tv, mr. the apprentice, mr. you're fired. he was told by kamala harris point-blank last night you were fired by 81 million people. and i believe it went downhill for him from there and it was her face, the optics of her face listening to him talk, which was a cross between i can't believe i'm listening to this blow hard lie his butt off and at the same time i kind of feel sorry for

him because he's so pathetic. >> there were a couple of times that pity shone through there. just like viewers every morning watching this show looking at me asking the same question, are you okay, joe? no, i'm not, and that's why we have a lot of guests with us, let's bring in now former nbc host chris matthews, reporter for the notice, jasmine wright and david ignatius is still with us. chris, you've seen a lot of these debates and we've talked about the obvious here, we've talked about how bad donald trump looked, we've talked about how well kamala harris did. let's talk about, though, when we were talking about the morning after the june debate and we kept talking about -- i kept talking about all of the missed opportunities that joe biden had, all of the lay ups that he couldn't put in, all of the easy shots that just -- we

could say the same thing about donald trump. any sane republican running last night would have stayed on afghanistan, would have stayed on 9% inflation, would have stayed on high grocery bills, would have stayed on gas prices skyrocketing over the past several years, would have even moved in on the deficit and the debt even though trump was weak there. there were so many things that he could have talked about and stayed on them. he just couldn't do it. again -- >> she triggered him so many times. >> the "wall street journal" opinion writers were clearly cheering for donald trump and clearly against everything kamala harris stands for, they basically said the same thing. kamala harris had a free walk in the park last night because of donald trump's idiocy.

>> david axelrod once said in an article i read when obama was running in '08 that every change election is an opportunity for the outsider, the newcomer to lamb baste the incumbent. what she did last night was flip the tables. she said, wait a minute, you're raising a national sales tax, that tariff of yours, she wouldn't even call it a tariff, she said he's going to raise taxes of $6,000 a couple, a family. she made him play defense on inflation. how did she do that? she did that right up front with the sales tax. >> the trump sales tax, she talked about the trump abortion bans. i mean, again, that's -- that's a wild thing that donald trump didn't at some point turn to her and go, wait a second, you've been in the white house for three and a half years. >> he didn't do it. >> trump could not do that, he was so addled last night, chris. >> i don't even like talking about iq because it's so basic. she is no smart, her "stereophonic" attack on him,

roasting him like a pig the first half hour. he was fevered, he was looking for the frozen strawberries, he was nuts. i said i've got an hour to go here and he's already roasting here. he's finished. she revved him up and delaced him. i thought she was frisky. she wasn't -- she wasn't looking down on him she was just enjoying his roasting. she threw more wooded on the fire on this thing about the crowd size. that's the weird button with that guy. look at the crowds he had at the mall, bigger than martin luther king, bigger than anybody. she said they went away early because they were bored. you're boring, you are a boring man, donald trump. >> and, jasmine, that's, again, going back to the "wall street journal" opinion page and going back to it because they clearly want donald trump to win, but

even they said kamala harris kept baiting donald trump and he was dumb enough to take the bait every time. >> every time. >> it's actually fascinating. i was talking to a trump spokesperson in the spin room last night in philadelphia and they said, you know, i was actually surprised that she confronted him so many times and that she confronted him in untruthful ways, i think you can debate about whether or not she said was truthful but the surprise about her confronting him i thought that was incredible because the vice president's campaign has signaled for the last three and a half weeks that they were going to confront him. not necessarily tit for tat, but they were going to goad him, bait him because they felt they could make the first contrast between personality and presidential readiness between the former president and vice president. that's what you saw her do on crowd sizes, calling him weak on national security, calling him somebody who likes dictators, who wants to be a dictator. >> what he had for lunch.

>> saying he was confused and it was hard for him to process the loss of 2020. all these things that they very well know is a trig tore trump. and for his -- >> military leaders said he was a disgrace. >> this is a campaign -- one last thing -- that is very excited about what harris did last night. they felt that the prep was there. >> jasmine, as you were saying she confronted him. we were showing a picture, alex and -- >> perfect timing. >> perfect timing. this is where it started. >> that was the first strike. >> donald trump did not expect her to go over and shake hands. >> she kind of chased him a bit, right? she went up -- i mean, seriously, i was watching it in the spin room and i was like, oh, my gosh. i was joking with my friends is she going to shake his hand or not. >> he doesn't like to shake hands. >> he is a germophobe. she walks across the stage, he is my and ring and she goes and chases him behind the lectern. that was the first strike to get

him off kilter. her first opening remark when she was talk being the economy that was a little shaky, you could tell she had a bit of nerves. the vice president is a person who gets nerves we saw it in 2019 but she stabilized, chris, to your point that crowd size moment. >> i thought it was interesting, mika, she sounded a little nervous at first and then at some point, maybe it was the crowd size, i don't know what it was, but at some point she laughed and she said, oh, wait a second, i get this guy. it's kind of like -- and forgive me, i'm a guy, i'm an old guy so there's always sports references and boxing. you can see boxers where they go in and they would dance around each other and at some point one of the boxers says, oh, wait a second, i've got this guy, i'm going to either knock him out now or i'm going to play with him for a while. she realized pretty soon into last night, she said, i've got this guy. >> chris matthews, i want to ask

you about pennsylvania because of course i turned it on fox after and the main hosts, the people, you know, there with credibility were saying that she won the debate. >> right. >> but then it devolved from there. this morning trump was on there and there's every acrobatic measure being taken to make it look like kamala lied her way through the debate and trump won. in pennsylvania does the debate matter or will they just continue to watch where they want to watch and stay in that spin? >> well, you know, david brooks had a great piece this weekend in "the times" about the actual big picture reason why pennsylvania may be difficult. it's the college thing. people that went to college, they're lucky, had a great break in life, their genes were right, everything was great, the people who didn't go don't think about their kids go, it never comes up in a family conversation. there's no conversation like that. they feel shut out. in pennsylvania you have a lot

of people, working people, white people i guess you could say, black people, but there is a sense you're cut out. all across the state from pittsburgh to philly it's all there and you can see it. i think that's still there. the other thing is this wanting to change. nbc has historically said the key question to ask in an election is do you want a new direction? are you satisfied with the direction? it's 2-1 against. so last night she had to shatter all the magnetic big time facts that is going to affect how people vote, how they're doing in life, financially personally and how they think their group is doing. i think she broke it in the night but this is going to come down to be a real close election. >> she turned that around also, though. the question of do you want to break from the past and, mika, again, maybe it's because she was great, maybe it's because donald trump was bad, maybe it's somewhere in the middle, but if you are tuning in and you didn't

already -- you were trying to make up your mind, donald trump was the past. >> yeah. >> and she was the future. that's how she painted it. >> he couldn't even answer as to whether or not he wanted ukraine to win. here he is and we're talking about pennsylvania -- >> a lot of polish people watching in philadelphia. >> roll it. >> if donald trump were president, putin would be sitting in kyiv right now and understand what that would mean because putin's agenda is not just about ukraine. understand why the european allies and our nato allies are so thankful that you are no longer president and that we understand the importance of the greatest military alliance the world has ever known which is nato and what we have done to preserve the ability of zelenskyy and the ukrainians to fight for their independence, otherwise putin would be sitting in kyiv with his eyes on the rest of europe, starting with

poland and why don't you tell the 800,000 polish americans right here in pennsylvania how quickly you would give up for the sake of favor and what you think is a friendship with what is known to be a dictator who would eat you for lunch. >> you know, a lot of times there are people that come on the air after debates go, oh, it was just show biz, oh, it was just this, oh, it was just that and a lot of times it really is. but i would tell you it would be something, wouldn't it, if they had a debate and the truth broke out. david, that's exactly what happened. i mean, she said -- and i say this to a man who has written columns about many of the things that donald trump did, abraham accords and some other things that you supported and said he should be saluted for. here, though, in ukraine, i mean, kamala harris correctly points out what all europeans fear, that if he is elected, you

know -- most europeans fear i will say -- if he's elected ukraine falls, putin moves into kyiv and they're looking straight at poland. >> joe, we've talked a lot about the way she triggered him, the way she got him to act really crazy, but i think in some ways the most important thing that she did last night was to show in a clear, deeply impressive way that she can be commander in chief. that she took all of trump's usual language about strength and, you know, being tough and she turned it around against him. you are a disgrace. you are weak. and then she talked about her own personal experience as a national security leader, meeting with zelenskyy. i told zelenskyy that the russians were coming and here is what they will do if they succeed if you become president. so i think, you know, everybody

watching this debate wanted to know kamala harris all this excitement, all this sense of change but can she be a good president? does they have the strength to have commander in chief? you got strong evidence last night that the answer to that is yes. >> what a turn around, mika, putin will eat you for lunch. we're going to pause this conversation and return to the remembrances at ground zero in new york city and in shanksville, pennsylvania, and in washington, d.c. we are at 9:37 a.m. american airlines flight 77 crashed into the western side of the pentagon. 189 people were killed in that attack, 64 on board the plane and 125 inside the building. let's listen. >> -- in remembrance of the lives lost in that very minute on september 11th, 20001.

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your proposal calls for tariffs as you pointed out here, foreign imports across the board, you recently said that you might double your plan imposing tariffs on goods to 20% coming into this country. many economists say with tariffs at that level costs are passed on to the consumer. vice president harris argued it will mean higher prices on gas, food, medication, arguing it costs americans $4,000 a year.

>> they're not going to have higher prices and who is going to have higher prices is china and all of the country that have been ripping us off for years. i was the only president before -- china was paying us hundreds of billions of dollars and so were other countries and, you know, if she doesn't like them, they should have gone out and they should have immediately cut the tariffs, but those tariffs are there three and a half years now under their administration. we are going to take in billions of dollars, hundreds of billions of dollars. i had no inflation, virtually no inflation. they had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because i've never seen a worse period of time, people can't go out and buy cereal or bacon or eggs or anything else. the people of our country are absolutely dying with what they've done. they've destroyed the economy and all you have to do is look at a poll. the polls say 80 and 85 and even 90% that the trump economy was great, that their economy was

terrible. >> okay. let's bring in nbc news senior business analyst and host of "the 11th hour" stephanie ruhle and co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin. good to have you both. >> andrew, let's start with the inflation number this morning and let's talk about oil even. oil yesterday -- i was talking to somebody in a country very dependent on oil, i said, why is oil below $70 a barrel? he said, we're asking that question, too. it just keeps going down. >> well, it does, and, you know, one of the things, though, and it's interesting politically, we've talked for months about how, you know, every gas station when you look at the corner and you see the price of gasoline, that is your sense of how the economy is doing. well, the price of gas has come down materially, on average we're $3.26 a gallon across the country, in large part to the

country by the way you're under $2, in some places it's $2.81, $2.65 in some places. interestingly in many swing states it's come down even more materially. it will be interesting to see how that weighs ultimately on the election. energy and food is not part of what they call the core cpi number when it comes to inflation. you're supposed to take that out of the picture for the purpose of the way the federal reserve is going to be looking at this and trying to figure out, okay, what's happening here, it's going as expected. this is what they said they were going to do. by the way, president biden said they were going to reduce inflation and that is exactly what's happening. for the federal reserve's purpose the question now is what do they do about the unemployment situation and is the economy cooling down? it is. there's nothing going to be a question of how much of course they're going to cut the rate. i still think at this point it will be cut by about 25 basis points in september, but in terms of just how people feel

about the economy, the good news is people are still spending money. that has not -- that has not abated. housing has been firmer than i think people are expected, when people talk about getting into a first time home, you heard former president -- or you heard vice president harris talk about trying to get people in homes last night, that is still a very, very sticky issue. >> yeah, i mean, steph, we are looking at the dow dropping a little bit here as we speak the morning after the debate, a couple hundred points but the substance of what we heard last night on tariffs, it's not kamala harris who is making the case that tariffs are attacks on consumers it's just a statement of fact that they are a tax on consumers and they will not help with inflation which as we see is ticking down. vice president harris also could have cited the historically low unemployment numbers, gdp growth, small business startups, the highest they've been in five years, much higher than they've been in five years and even the report we saw last week from goldman sachs economists who said explicitly that growth would be better under a

president harris than under a president trump based on their existing plans. >> we heard a lot of that from her last night but it's tricky, right? the first question she was asked are the american people better off today than they were four years ago and she didn't definitively say yes and the reason is it's complicated. housing is still expensive, insurance, car insurance, ensuring your home hugely expensive. it is a complicated question for her to answer, however, donald trump did such an awful job addressing the economy last night it was like a gift to her. when they talked about the economy, he handed joe biden and he said, you know, i gave him a good economy, the things that were bad it was because of covid and what i learned during covid is we don't manufacture anything here, that's why we need the tariffs, we are not making any chips here, we need these tariffs to help us. she looked him square in the eye and she said, the tariffs, they're going to cost the american people so much more money. you're right, we don't produce

enough here which is why we passed the $53 billion package to have the chips act to bring manufacturing back. it was so strange, it's like he walked into it. many people are wondering does he know how tariffs work because on a rally stage when he says we're going to tariff china, people get excited and they hold their made in usa signs up, but all tariffs end up doing is costing the american people way more money and it's like donald trump walked right into it and it could have been a potentially good point for him because even though you lay out all the really good data people still feel that life is more expensive, on average everything costs 20% more than it did when donald trump was in office and he should be able to do something with that and he can't. >> steph, let's talk about that we expect the rate cut coming later this month. what will the real world implications of that going to be? we've been living with this idea for so long, the rate cut is coming, now it seems like it will. give us concrete examples of how

it will change things and how quickly considering how close the election is? >> it takes a little bit of time. this is about borrowing costs it makes everything cheaper to borrow so your life will get cheaper. you're not going to find things happening overnight for the average person, but voting is about what is going to happen in the future. it will be a very good thing for vp harris, for president biden. last night donald trump really flubbed on the economy which is a vulnerability for him. i mean, i talked to big wall street guys throughout the debate and the only thing they kept saying was, well, i don't know her policies enough, and what did donald trump say besides tariffs when it came to health care? i'm working on concepts. so it was a very big win for her. >> i wanted to ask you about that, too, andrew, which is what does the "wall street journal" editorial board, the people on wall street, the ceos you talk to say after a performance like that when the foundation apparently of his economic plan is tariffs, something i trust

most are fundamentally against. i guess a lower corporate tax rate, less regulation. what else do you hear when they hear that kind of presentation last into the, not just there but at the rallies about his policies? >> put the policies aside, i think the truth was that there are a lot of wall street folks who went into that debate having been told repeatedly by former president trump that she was incoherent, that she could not string two sentences together, that she was not somebody who could articulate a plan and i think they walked out of there -- you can read elon musk's tweets last night where he's saying she's exceeding expectations. they may have had a low bar but i think we all saw with our eyes that she was very articulate about how she was planning to prosecute the issues in front of her. you may disagree with some of the policies, obviously there's questions about some of the details of those policies, but i think in terms of, you know, just presentation, is she up for

the job, there was -- that question was taken off the table last evening for a lot of folks on wall street, the donor class, if you will, that had questions about these things and i think that is actually a major win in her camp this morning. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin and stephanie ruhle, thank you both. we will be watching "the 11th hour" at 11:00 p.m. eastern. final thoughts, jasmine, on the debate last night? what's the one thing that comes to mind? >> we reported it today in our notice newsletter that's out this morning that even vivek ramaswamy someone a formal trump rival turned surrogate for him said, look, if d. she exceed the low expectations set for her? perhaps she did. he said that he didn't think she won but clearly it's a recognition in the trump campaign that harris did much, much better than what they

expected and potentially much better than what trump even prepared for. >> chris matthews when i watch it and when i watch -- i'm like, oh, my gosh, she did better than expected but also was great. i mean, if you didn't even put a low bar out there like some did, she was excellent. >> she was not a lefty, she did not come across as a member of the squad, she didn't talk like one. she was normal, which is a good word for a newcomer. she also looked to me like somebody who could handle putin in a tough meeting, handle all these guys like orban. i think she had a "stereophonic" ability to groove in on him, hit him with all the crazy stuff and she put the crazy stuff a little later in it, laced in around the second half hour after she had warmed him up, revved him up into this vice president harris crazy captain qweeg thing.

she started hitting him with disgrace and all the words that really hurt. he was like why do you keep doing this? >> david ignatius, real quick. >> she had a great night, the wind is at her back now and she for the rest of the campaign is going to have that benefit of momentum. let's not forget there is a long way to go. her weakest area i thought last night was the economy. that is the area where the public still thinks donald trump can do a better job than she can and she's got to fix that if she wants to make this theme turn the page, turn the page with me into the future work. >> i do think it was great when she invited people to a trump rally and told them they would be bored. david ignatius, chris matthews, jasmine wright, thank you all very much. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break with more 9/11 remembrances. k with more 9/11 remembrances

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the moment i met him i knew he was my soulmate. "soulmates." soulmate! [giggles]

why do you need me? [laughs sarcastically] but then we switched to t-mobile 5g home internet. and now his attention is spent elsewhere. but i'm thinking of her the whole time. that's so much worse. why is that thing in bed with you? this is where it gets the best signal from the cell tower! i've tried everywhere else in the house! there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title.

hello, i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york on september 11th, 23 years to the day since the worst terror attack in our nation's history. in new york city this morning president biden, vice president harris, former president trump and senator j.d. vance all marking the solemn anniversary at ground zero in manhattan. any moment now we expect another moment of silence marking the fall of the south tower. we will bring that to you live. at the moment let's go to nbc's rehema ellis and vaughn hillyard joining us from lower manhattan. even in these divisive times marking this collective tragedy is something that union nice all americans. tell us about what's happening there this morning as these commemorations take place. actually, hold that thought. let's just listen in. [ bell ringing ]

[ moment of silence ] [ playing taps ] >> and my grandfather, richard j. o'connor, we will always love and miss you. >> okay. again, that moment of silence marking the fall of the south tower 23 years ago. that was the fourth moment of silence this morning. we expect two more. i do want to go to our reporters who are on site as they continue reading the names of the victims of that horrific day. rehema, tell us about today's commemorations and the events

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