being overly dramatic with your face that that could work against you in a situation like this. where you really do want to project a kind of serious presidential demeanor. that being said i did get into it with trump because her face, was oftentimes reflecting in her face what many of us who were sitting there listening to the rantings of a deranged lunatic. if we were standing 10 feet from them we would be making those faces and much much more. i thought that she handled it perfectly well. and certainly better in every way than donald trump's glowering, unpresidential performance. >> thank you very much. >> thanks. that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. >> there's no play book for how

do you react on a debate stage when the person to your right is talking about the consumption of cats and dogs. and gender reassignment surgery on illegal immigrants in prison. >> i don't know how i would react. >> let's hope that doesn't happen again. thank you my friend. >> all right. >> and last night's debate. showed an unbelievable contrast between donald trump and kamala harris. choosing just one moment to focus on is just impossible.

>> obama care was lousy health care. >> yes or no do you have a plan? >> i have concepts of a plan. it's kind of like if you ask a high school student if they started their book report and they tell you, they have an idea of how they're going to write it. the difference between donald trump and a high school student is donald trump has been attacking the health care for almost a decade now. and he still doesn't know a decade later. when there's a double standard existing and still exists for these two candidates going into this debate. for weeks these have been the headlines written about vice president harris. heavy on buzz, light on policy. kamala harris has good vibe,

time for good policy. kamala harris is light on policy but that has helped her transform the race. the reality is since she opened the race about i don't know five minutes ago, kamala harris has layed out a series of policy proposals and speeches and on her website. economic policies on pricing and price gouging. restoring reproductive freedom. family policies on affordable child care. so if that is the definition of light on policy, then the trump campaign is, i don't know what is less than zero? the policy page lists a series of vague campaign promises that are not policies, like end inflation. and seal the border. with no explanation as to how trump plans to accomplish any of it. the only detailed policy

proposals trump allies have put forward is project 2025 and trump spent much of the campaign running away from that plan. here he is with that plan. >> project 25 is out there, i have not read it. i don't want to read it. >> it was on kamala harris to deliver specifics. trump has been talking about sharks and han abel lecter who was not alive ever. and that led to a series of very revealing moments. like this question on abortion. >> would you veto a national abortion ban. >> if i can just get a yes or no. because your running mate j.d.

vance said you would veto if it came to your desk. >> i did not discuss it on j.d. >> trump refused to say if he would veto an abortion ban. something he knew was coming. it was the same as when he got asked this question. which side he supports on a war in ukraine. >> do you want ukraine to win this war? >> i want the war to stop. i want to save lives. >> just to clarify the question, do you believe it's in the u.s. best interest for ukraine to win this war, yes or no. >> i think it's the u.s.'s best interest to get this war finished. >> vice president harris spent the night on one hand baiting trump while also letting people know where she stands on key issues. here she is explaining her position on abortion. >> i absolutely support reinstating the protections of roe v. wade and as you rightly

mentioned, nowhere in america is a woman carrying a pregnancy to term and, and asking for an abortion. that is not happening. it's insulting to the women of america. and understand what has been happening under donald trump's abortion bans. couples who pray and dream of having a family are being denied ivf treatments. >> here is kamala. >> if trump was president, putin would be sitting in kyiv. tell people in america how quickly you would give up tp-rp favor and what you think is a friendship for who is known to be a dictator who would eat you for lunch. >> the choice between donald

trump and kamala harris could not have been clearer. and now the question is, did im the voters who are going to decide this election and especially those of going into this event saying they wanted to see a debate in a national forum. so what do they think? >> are you sure you're going raise for trump, raise your hand. >> sure is a strange word. if i had to vote right now, i would vote for trump. >> same here, yeah. >> harris if you had to vote today. raise your hand. and, you just want to know more. >> i want to know more. >> and nicole is not going to vote for either skwr-sz >> who do you think won show of

hands. former president trump. two, four. but tentative. two over there. what about vice president harris? more hands. >> is there anything you heard here that you thought, oh yeah, i can go for that policy? i can stand with that candidate? >> not really. for me i think kamala had a good debate. i feel more favorably toward her than to donald. >> it seems that way. >> but i'm still, not 100%. >> joining me now are george conway, attorney and staff writer for the atlantic. tim alberta is entitled why mike lee folded. and we're going to get into the republican party and the fold. i'm going to start with you first, just about your impressions about this debate. and to the degree to which you really think showed the dynamic of the closing days of this election. >> i think he can't help but do that because i think we're going to keep seeing clips of donald trump saying the absurd

things he was saying yesterday. there's just so much that he does that is just a wall of words, a random, waterfall of just verbiage that there was so many things in there that he said that are just completely absurd. not just the cats and the people eating cats in ohio allegedly. that was a leader in fertilization. what is he even talking about there. putting together the things he was saying. he was saying it's the end of the world if i'm not elected and the exaggerations make him look silly. if we stack them together

that's what people are going to remember. it's going to be brutal for him. >> i do wonder tim, you know, it's not of course just donald trump who's going to have to answer for some of the things he said last night. whether that's potentially siding with putin in the war in ukraine. maybe enacting a national abortion ban. this is stuff that any republican on a ticket in november is going to have to talk about. and your magnum opus talks about the concession that formerly skeptical members of the party have made in order to gain power and relevance within today's trump owned gop. i sort of wonder as you tell the story of mike lee, how you think that story you know changes or doesn't change based on a performance like the one last night from donald trump and just, you know, how difficult it is for those republicans who still have a conscious but haven't disavowed trump. >> well, alex. it's interesting, i spent the day talking with a number of people close to trump, close to

the campaign, and you know, the way that they sort of play this off is well, we're sort of back to where we were a year ago which is that this is a coin flip and it's going to come down to, you know 100,000 voters spread across maybe 12 counties in three or four states and that's that. but if you compare that to where the trump campaign was just three months ago. which is where they were pretty comfortably coming on 320 electoral votes and candidates down the ballot in arizona, georgia were in serious trouble. this feels like a totally different campaign. it feels as the tale of two campaigns. when we were in milwaukee it felt that this was the high water mark. they were sort of all on cruise control and cloud nine thinking this was an election for them. they felt this unity, it was a party that for the first time

really in a decade felt entirely coalesce around donald trump. the last two or three weeks of the campaign with the campaign leveling out. some of those who felt good a couple of months ago and were all on board are not anymore. you can hear it in their voice. you can sense that they recognize. even if trump's numbers don't suffer at all. we're living in a very polarized electoral. as bad as he was last night. there's a possibility the numbers stay pretty steady in the days to come. but that's because of trump's perceived strengths and weaknesses being baked into the minds of so many voters.

but what about those down ballot republicans. do they suffer as a result of this. i think that is the fear among a lot of republicans. that trumps numbers are going to stay pretty stable no matter what but among moderates and independents that they suffer when he has a performance like the one he had last night. >> it seemed to me george i don't know if you saw it this way. kamala harris was trying to embarrass trumps not just for democrats to rile them up and get them to the polls but also embarrass him in the eyes of moderate voters and moderate republicans. writes on the work. that resinate with this sort of old garb republican sen centrist. she talked about the importance of families, small business, tax cuts.

she was talking russia and china. she offered unwaivering to israel. she talked about being a gun owner. i think that is pretty strong, does it resinate? >> i think so. the only substantive argument is kamala harris is too on china. she said with the same thing that happened in the convention where they basically took over the flag. donald trump spends all his time trashing on america. not offering a vision for the future. it's a very negative and distopian view of the country. she's talking positively about the country. not the government but the

people in the country. about the ability of people, maybe with a little help from the government or with a little less interference from the government being able to accomplish things for themselves and for their families and small businesses and so on. this is this classic american presidential politics that it's normal. and that's the, that's the contrast that she was trying to and successfully drew with donald trump. then she said, watch the other guys rallies where he talks about hanabal elector and he goes and chases the rabbit. it was beautiful though the transitions that she made back and forth between putting together a positive vision. introducing herself to the public who hasn't, that haven't focused on her. and then contrasting herself with him and they're just, giving him the side eye was so powerful. okay she didn'tover do it.

she just looked at this man the way we all look at him like what is his freaking problem. what is he even talking about. but she did it in such a controlled fashion. i mean it was the split screen i think at the end of the day. that destroyed trump not just the words that he used and the words that she used because we know what, we've heard them say a lot of these things before but the split screen. and that's what actually hurt biden last time. the split screen, he had this blank look on his face. it mattered a lot. >> tim, you know, i agree with both of you. that a it was a master class on debating and whether it moved the people that it was supposed to move. there's so much indecision.

you have to wonder is the reluctance to vote for harris when you see such a contrast because of her policy or is it something deeper and more personal like the fact that she is a woman. or that she is a mixed race you know woman of color? is it something cultural? is it something personal that she herself can't actually manage. that she can't message that no ad will fix, no debate will fix but it's a decision these voters have to come to on their own? >> look, it's hard to say. i think the one thing that we have to reck recognize the fundamentals largely remain unchanged despite all the other things. we've had the assassination attempt. we've had the vice president elevated to the top of the ticket in a historic intraparty maneuver. and yet when you look at the polling from 18 months ago, 6 months ago to today.

most of the core concerns voters have remain pretty much inchanged. u nchanged. if voters were punishing joe biden for being weak on the economy. for the perception of being weak on immigration and crime. if they were punishing joe biden for the idea that geo politics is bad and the world is burning down around us. then that would translate to his vice president. now clearly not all of them have because she's polling significantly better than biden was. but, i live in the midwest. i live in a battleground state. i'm traveling constantly to wisconsin, to pa talking to people in michigan. a lot of what you pick up and when you talk to party officials on both sides. what you pick up is that like she's an improvement from biden just in the fact that he is younger. she's articulate. she can put a sentence together. but she's still such an unknown

alex. i think one debate doesn't necessarily address that. it's not to minimize the issues you're raising because we know those issues are real and they're resonant. she campaigned with joe biden during covid. the being of the term was rocky and they reeled her back in. this is someone who's still doing the hard work of introduced herself to voters. her favorables have gone up. this is still a very condensed window in which they're trying to make that introduction. at the end of the day what we're seeing from some voters is, look, we can't stand donald trump. he's repellant and yet i think he's going to be better on these two or three core issues i care about therefor i will vote for him again.

>> because economic policy. i'm not even sure what the other one is. george conway and tim albert, thank you for your time tonight. really appreciate it. we have a lot more to get to tonight. of all the traps that kamala harris set up for trump, there's one that might win her the race. >> donald trump won so much, he got tired of winning. the only problem is he can't debate kamala harris ever again. i'll talk to senator warren about that coming up next. that is taken once every 8 weeks. ( ♪♪ ) fasenra helps prevent asthma attacks. most patients did not have an attack in the first year. fasenra is proven to help you breathe better so you can get back to doing day-to-day activities. and fasenra helps lower the use of oral steroids.

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i've been told i'm great debater. i think that was one of my better debates. >> we won the debate. when you win you don't necessarily have to do it a

second time. so we'll see. >> multiple instant polls show vice president harris won the debate by a large margin. including this one that shows her beating trump. joining me senator elizabeth warren. what did you think, i know you were watching it. >> kamala harris will be president of the united states. that's what we saw last night. she strutted out on that stage like a president. like a leader. she took his hand, she owned donald trump from literally the first seconds of the debate. and she did everything, but snap a leash on him and walk that old dog around the stage. but, what you really saw was

kamala harris as president. she's the one, i watched her. i was thinking i'm ready for her to take on republican crazies in congress. i'm ready for her to stand up and really lean in on the wall street ceos who think they can run everything. i'm ready for her to take on vladimir putin and to take on kim jong-un. i mean that's what she showed. she showed that kind of strength and presence that wasn't forced. it wasn't like, i need to look like this. it's that it came from within. she was strong, she was composed. she, she was presidential. >> i wonder you know because you guys were senate colleagues. i was reminded of some of her almost prosecutorial lines of questioning during senate confirmation hearings. i was wondering if you saw flashes of that the kamala harris you worked with on the senate on the stage last night and whether that's kind of the

new play book with dealing with donald trump. >> i did. and it's something actually. i've known kamala 14 years now. it's something i actually watched when she would get into it. back when she was attorney general for california. you may remember it's after the financial crash and here she is. trying to help the families that these banks have cheated and now the banks are trying to take away their homes. and i watched her as we went through some of these negotiations. i was trying to set up the fpd at the same time. she gets a calmness and a focus and it shows she knows what she's doing, she's well prepared. and most of all, she knows who she's fighting for. i thought that was a big contrast last night. donald trump, once again, all about donald trump. kamala harris was all about

your family. all about what's happening to america's working families. to america's middle class. what's happening to woman who are now what 1 in 3 and america lives in a state that effectively bans abortion. one in three live in a state where when they walk into a hospital in the middle of a miscarriage are examined. doctor knows what needs to be done but says, sorry, you're not close enough to death yet for me to give you the medical care you need. go out to the parking lot and hemorrhage for a few more hours. doctors in these states are afraid of being criminally prosecuted. you see kamala harris as the person who will lead us and say, this is not the america we want to be. and it is not the america we will be. there's exactly one way to

protect our daughters and granddaughters going forward. and it's important to put roe versus wade in play. that's the kind of thing we saw last night. that leadership that she is strong, she is determined, and she will fight for us. >> and she knows how to trigger donald trump better than anybody else in american politics. >> you know, that's the part we have to remember. 55 days, we have to approach this with joy, with entertainment. passing around the memes. having a good time but doing the work for 55 days and that means volunteering and knocking on doors and texting. and making sure that your cousins have all registered to vote and that everyone has a plan to vote. and we early vote wherever is possible. we've got 55 days to deliver this. we have the right candidate at the right moment. it's up to the rest of us now,

let's do the work. >> senator elizabeth warren, thanks so much for your time. really appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead tonight, donald trump's great service, his words not mine. his great service to the american public in overturning roe v. wade. we talk about that coming up next. world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. philip: when your kid is hurting and there's

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c1 during last night's debate when donald trump was asked about his role in overturning roe v. wade trump essentially told america, you're welcome. >> i did a great service in doing it. it took courage to do it. and the supreme court had great courage in doing it. we've gotten what everybody wanted. democrats, republicans and everybody else and every legal scholar wanted it to be brought back into the states. >> here's how vice president harris responded to that. >> you want to talk about this is what people wanted? pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term, suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care. they don't want that. >> joining me now is president and ceo of reproductive freedom for all. minnie, thank you for joining me tonight. so, amanda becker is a reporter

for the 19th. and she tweeted yesterday night that google analytics e-mail that she received showed that abortion was the top searched issue in every single state other than ohio where trump said they're eating cats and dogs during the debate. that to me said the abortion thing resonated in last night's debate. >> yeah, trump took a completely straightforward question and turned it into a completely unhinged rant. i tried to go back and watch it over and over today to make sure i could understand what he was saying and let's be candid. it was very hard to understand what she was saying. what i thought was really smart vice president is she was able to sort of dissect. this is the misinformation. this is the hate. this is where you don't show compassion. and then let me shame you then let me talk directly to the american people and that's when you see the google

analytics, i'm so glad amanda tweeted it. new york times just wrote a report that for women 40 and under it's becoming the top issue over the economy and it's trending across all demographics. you're seeing the data, you're seeing the polling. the important thing that needed to happen is kamala harris needed to nail him on this and she needed to draw the contrast and she did it. >> she did something. and i totally agree, the best you know, abortion journalist such as it is in the country. she made this point. harris did something that would have been unthinkable years ago. she reclaimed family values on abortion. when she talked about this law it wasn't just to allow trump to frame the conversation but a reminder that we as in the democrats are the ones protecting american families. it's been a long time. maybe nexus never that you could frame the issue of choice with family values and i think

she did it masterfully. >> i don't think we've ever seen this. a full 10 minutes on national television on abortion and reproductive freedom. and she brought those stories to the national stage. and this is something it's, an untold story about kamala harris. since the dobbs decision she spent the last two years traveling this country. meeting with these women. meeting with their doctors. the first vice president to visit a planned parenthood. digging in deep with state and local legislatures and attorneys general to figure this out. rolling upper sleeves and it all paid off last night. >> i got to ask because you know we're looking at this poll. the day after the debate question, is it going to make a difference. what happens now. we were talking about undecided voters. yes these polls are tight but the difference is, dobbs. the difference is the fact that roe v. wade was overturned that

changed the dynamics of the midterms. the republican voted under valued. when you look at the state of pennsylvania, donald trump was in front of joe biden. he and kamala harris is neck and neck. do you think this makes voters nervous about this election cycle being already much tighter than 2020. >> even when joe biden was a -t the top of the ticket we were saying abortion was going to be the difference maker. we did research that were very frustrated with joe biden especially in the middle east. we were able to motivate them and move them on abortion that included women 30 to 35-year- olds. talking about a surge in voter

registration data with women. but particularly younger women. the issue gets more salient the longer these bans are in place. with kamala harris you have an authenticity but renewed energy around it and you have a shrinking of the believability gap and what democrats can and will do about it. >> yeah, totally. it's held by donald trump going through a list of states that have had abortion referendum on their ballots. ohio, kansas. >> a little too liberal for him in ohio. >> just reminding people that these are issues that are being decided at the state level. when they're decided democrats usually win. that's still occurring and will be occurring in november this year too. >> 10 states. i want to talk on something he mentioned. he kept talking about how we don't need congress for this. she's not going to get congress for this. look at project 2025 they planned to get a national abortion plan too without congress. i thought it was a huge slip up

for him. he was basically admitting on national television. yes i'm excited that i had to do this and i don't need congress. she doesn't need congress. we're going to do this by enforcing the comstock act. it was a big tell for us. >> in so far you could decipher anything. >> i watched it five times. it might have broken my brain. >> but that's your job. it's great to hear your perspective. it's great to see you in person. >> good to see you. >> coming up, they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats. actually they're not. that's next.

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will be a defining goal of my presidency. she'll make groceries more affordable by cracking down on price gouging. and she'll cut housing costs by taking on corporate speculators. middle class families built america. we need a leader who has their back. i'm kamala harris and i approve this message.

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in springfield they're eating the dogs. the people that came in. they're eating the cats. >> maybe donald trump's most offensive and disgusting lie was about immigrants in springfield, ohio. >> i just want to clarify here. you bring up springfield ohio. abc news did reach out to the manager there. he told us there have been no credible reports of specific pets being harmed in the immigrant community. >> i've seen the people on television. the people on television say my dog was taken and used for

food. so maybe he said that. maybe that's a good thing to say for a city manager. >> i'm not taking it from the city manager. >> but a person said the dog was eaten by the people that went there. >> again the springfield city manager said there were no dogs eaten there. >> we'll find out. >> the claims that trump is making about springfield, ohio. but ohio senator j.d. vance are lying any way. these are real people that they are lying about. the child that jd vance claims was murdered by a haitian immigrant. we blurred the photos here but the gist is that the trump campaign is using the accidental death of an 11-year- old in a car accident to try and claim that haitian immigrants are killers. here is the father of the 11- year-old speaking to the springfield city council

yesterday. >> i wish that my -- i bet you never thought anyone would ever say something so blunt. but if that guy killed my 11- year-old son, the incessant group of people would leave us alone. we have to come up here and beg them to stop. using aden as a political tool is reprehensible for any political purpose. and speaking of morally bankrupt, politicians, moreno, chip roy, j.d. vance and donald trump, they have spoken my son's name and used his death for political gain. this needs to stop, now. >> there is a massive disconnect between the story that trump and vance are telling about springfield and what's happening in springfield in reality. the truth is that for decades

springfield was a city in decline. manufacturing plans shuttered the population plummeted so the city tried to attract new businesses and workers. that effort worked, new jobs and cheap rents attracted thousands of new workers including thousands of haitian immigrants. and to be certain, a large influx of people comes with real challengeless challenges both for the immigrants and city that welcomes them. the influx of haitians to springfield has been a pretty positive thing. >> the haitians that i know, these haitians right here in the middle row my people that i've known for five years, four years going on. they're engineers, electrical, they're beautiful people that own businesses. >> we sat with the president of the job and resources center. and he describes how that community is feeling right now. >> they're scared for their

lives. some of them are asking me, yesterday i had a friend calling asking me if he has to leave because he's scared for his life. >> then there's the assertion that these immigrants are here illegally. which is flatly not true. but there is a big dark reason why donald trump and j.d. vance are pushing that specific lie and it has to do with our elections. i'm going to discuss what's happening there with johnson benson coming up next. (children speaking)

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trying to get them to vote. they can't even speak english, they don't know what country they are in practically and these people are trying to get them to vote and that is why they are allowing them to come into our country. >> donald trump's lies about fraudulent elections are having an impact. one in six election workers received threats of violence after the 2020 election. joining me now is michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson, who testified today before congress about the threats ahead of the election. secretary benson, it's great to see you. there have been a lot of dangerous things donald trump has said in recent days and weeks and years, but his lies last night about illegal, undocumented migrants coming in and a concerted effort to get them to vote fraudulently, what was your reaction when you heard him say that? >> well, thanks for having me, alex. it was a gut punch because it was not true. only u.s. citizens can vote in

our elections. what this type of rhetoric is designed to do is one, create fear and stoke fear obviously and division, but secondly also plant seeds of doubt in the minds of american citizens that our elections are anything other than secure and accurate, which they are, and also to set the stage to challenge and overturn legitimate, fair, and accurate election results, should he be unhappy with them in november. it is really a harbinger of what's to come in the weeks ahead and really, in my view, a signal that we all have to buckle up and try to rise above the noise and focus on the facts which is that only u.s. citizens can vote in our elections. >> it is hardly without parallel. he's been saying stuff in recent days that should be ringing alarm. there is a truth social posttreatment that said there was rampant cheating in the 2020 election and individuals who cheated will be prosecuted

to the fullest extent of the law, including election officials. the threats are twofold. the threats against undocumented migrants, which is part of his immigration portfolio. there is the threat to those who carry out elections, election workers, and those who certify them, elections officials. from your vantage point, how much of a chilling effect is this having on the recruitment of people to work the polls and also those who are tasked with, you know, certifying the elections and making sure state elections run correctly? >> it is having to effects. one, there are people throwing up their hands and sing it is not worth it. i want to stay home and this is not something where i want to put my family's life in jeopardy, simply to protect their election results. but actually the vast majority of election officials in michigan and across the country have seen this also as an opportunity to double down on our commitment to being professional, bipartisan and

ensuring transparent and secure elections continue to be the rule of the land. we have also seen an emboldening of election officials who, yes, these are threats and threats designed to intimidate us out of doing our duty and jobs as election officials, but the vast majority of us stepped into the fray knowing that after 2020 this is what we are signing up for and we are ready, we are ready to stand guard and refused to be intimidated. we won't back down and we will protect every voice, every vote, regardless of who the vote is cast for because we believe in democracy and believe anyone running for office in this country should similarly believe in the truth and facts and stand with them instead of threatening them. >> for people who don't understand what you personally have faced and are facing, your house has been swatted. you have received death threats. there is a michigan lawmaker who said you definitively will be prosecuted if donald trump wins in 2024.

that is an extraordinary amount of tenacity and resilience demanded of you and anyone else in your position. how do you grapple with that? it is not just you, it is also your family and people around you. >> it is alarming and chilling, frankly, to know that these powerful individuals with great megaphones would use the platform, his ambitions, to try to threaten us for doing our jobs. and when i started my career investigating extremist groups and extreme leaders and we know that that violent rhetoric often does result in threats of violence were worse against people who are the targets. so we realize the challenging moment we are in, but we also realize their responsibility. these are not threats to us, they are threats to the american people. threats to the will of the voters and our democracy itself and i am proud to stand in the

breach every day. i know my colleagues are as well because we embrace our responsibility to protect that promise of fear elections for our country and will continue to defend results of the elections, whatever they may be this fall. that is our message to the president. you can come at us with all the threats you want and it does create a harrowing environment for us to work through, but at the same time we will not be deterred from doing our job to protect the voice and votes of every citizen of this country. >> a profile in courage. michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson, thank you on behalf of people interested in democracy. >> thanks for having me, alex. that is our show for this evening. now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, my friend. >> good evening, alex. you know what i was wondering last night? i was wondering i think what mary trump thinks about what her uncle was experiencing and luckily