therein. it's not impossible but hard for harris to win the white house without pennsylvania. what's the latest you've heard? >> there is an issue there. she's also having an issue when it comes to labor in pennsylvania, especially with the u.s. steel sale, potential sale, that biden, harris, and trump have all come out against. but the rank and file labor members really do want to see this go through. there's a little bit of push and pull there. i think, frankly, when it comes to pennsylvania, she's also going to have to turn out her surrogates and use them well. >> particularly the governor of that state. >> yes. >> political analyst susan del percio, thank you so much. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. what made you come to the spin room? >> i just felt i wanted to. i was very happy with the result. >> we're looking at polls. the worst poll we've had was 71

that i see. >> we had a 92% rating in one poll. >> 80 to 20. i told that to bret baier. we sent him a lot of polls and sent you polls this morning. >> we had an 86% rating in one, another 77%. one poll is 92% to 6%. >> 92 to 7. >> speak louder, mr. president. >> 88 to 11. >> all the polls are 60, 70, and 80. >> 83 to 3. >> wow. >> i mean, but -- >> every single poll had me winning, like 90 to 10. it was 24 to 25. >> do a shout-out poll, who they thought won the debate last night. it'll be great. >> you know we always do the poll at the end, mr. president. >> why don't you do it while -- but i'm on the phone there. >> the polls are indicating that we got 90%, 60%, 72%, 71%, and 89%. >> where are you getting these

numbers from? >> and there you have it, willie. the race is over. 86 to 3, he tells one person. who responds with, "wow." you won 86 to 3. did you, comrade stalin? all the soviet people must really love you. no, but, i mean, that's part of the -- well, it's not part of the problem. i mean, it's a huge problem. he lives in an alternate reality. his handlers thought they could somehow manage that going into the debate. and republicans, mainstream republicans that insist on staying with this man, regardless of the craziness, the lunacy, all the losses, you know, they always thought they could control him, they could manage him. he can't be managed, is he livs

in an alternate reality, at least politically. >> yeah. when your debate performance is an unmitigated disaster, not by the account of you and me but by account of the republicans, by account of his advisors talking privately now to the press about how bad it was, there has been this fallacy, this fantasy, this charade, that if we can just get donald trump to settle in, prepare, and focus on policy, he's going to have a great -- it ain't happening. it's never happened since the day he stepped on the scene. i don't know why we keep trying to entertain that idea. he is who he is. it was on full display for an hour and a half two nights ago. he got whipped, frankly. now, you have to go out and make up polls. joe, by the way, the mashup we played there was from our friends from "all in with chris hayes," who put that together. showing the absurdity of donald trump's spin. it was three against one. whining about the debate mod vat

moderators. they said you can't kill a baby in any state of the union after they're born and, no, haitian immigrants are not eating pets in ohio. that's why he was whining it was unfair. >> again, anybody that thinks that's why he lost the debate, that he was corrected three times on -- but, you know, he got about seven minutes more than he was supposed to because the debate moderators allowed him to keep breaking the rules. every answer she had, they would try to move on to something else. he would blurt something out, crazy stuff for a minute or two minutes, breaking the rules. i was actually sitting there going, are you going to enforce your rules or not? i mean, i don't know if you'll remember, but when he came on our show, he didn't talk over us. >> no. >> or we hung up. i wanted to show jonathan lemire the headline in "the new york times" today. are you ready? >> ready. >> "red sox walk it off,"

jonathan. you have a picture of o'neil trotting around the bases. oh, wait, that's not the headline. >> 84 font there. screaming headline. >> it's over. >> yeah. >> the war is over. red sox within four. why do i bring this up with willie and you? because we have, actually -- and this is all we can hope for with this team. middle of september, we actually have a yankees/red sox series that means a lot to both teams. >> yeah. you're right. both teams had walk-off wins yesterday, as you just mentioned. tyler o'neil hit one to the moon, way over the green monster, walking off the orioles. frankly, doing a favor, taking two of three from baltimore. and a walk-off on an errant throw to home plate after the yankees rallied there. yeah, we have a series that matters now.

the sox, four out of the wild card. they might need a sweep in the bronx to really get there, at least two out of three. that's a tall order. look, middle of september. these games matter. it's red sox and yankees. it'll be fun. >> the sweep they need is with the twins after the yankees. at least split with the yankees, sweep the twins, and you have a shot there. yeah, it'll be exciting. the tigers coming out of nowhere. >> tigers. >> coming out of nowhere. >> wow. >> lions and tigers. not the bears, oh my. willie, really quickly, and then i'll let you get to what you probably -- if i shut up five minutes ago, you could have done already. headline really sums it up. i was talking about campaigns needing bumper stickers. to trump, u.s. is failing. to harris, there's hope. i mean, there's the campaign wrapped up in a headline. a very accurate headline.

trump would say that, that america is failing. he does say it all the time. and kamala harris would say, there's hope. there's hope. best days could be ahead. i think it's fascinating. if you want to know what this campaign is about, right there. right there, right there. where's the camera? that one right there, that's what it's about, willie. that's what we'll be talking about today, along president trump right melting down about debate moderators. some saying they should be jailed, which tells you where we are in 2024 on the trump right. they're talking about jailing moderators in the debate that donald trump had about six or seven more minutes to talk. you talk about pathetic excuses. also, taylor swift, elon musk, travis kelce. >> eh. >> eh. now to you, willie geist. >> unbelievable.

>> we'll get into all that. the headline you head up, joe, that was the takeaway for a lot of people. huge audience, by the way. we'll get into the numbers. >> my gosh, yeah. >> across a number of networks the other night. but the theme of her saying, we're not going back to this, looking forward, joy instead of yesterday and american carnage. that's the message she's putting out. as long as we're holding up newspapers, joe, another good number. "the wall street journal," i'll head over here, look at the top line. "inflation slows to three-year low." the data we talked about live as it came in yesterday. that is great news for americans going out, trying to buy groceries and do other things in the country. in fact, it relates to the campaign. around the table this morning, political analyst elise jordan. former aide to the george w bush white house and the state department. editor at "the financial times," ed luce. msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes. good morning to you all.

so "trump debate performance frustrates republicans," was the headline in the "wall street journal." "the journal" states, "gop lawmakers and others fretted that trump had missed chances to challenge harris on her record. instead, let his own controversies become the bigger story, as harris' needling got under his skin. lindsey graham of south carolina, of course a staunch ally of donald trump, called the debate a missed opportunity." republican senator kevin cramer of north dakota said, quote, "he treated it like a mini rally in a lot of republicans. you have to be talking to the swing voters in swing states. he could do that better with details." we're also getting reaction from inside the trump camp. one adviser telling nbc news, quote, "it was not his best performance, without question." that's from inside the trump camp. a long-time republican operative saying, "i know everyone in the world has said this, but the

inability, unwillingness to realize when he is being baited and not fall for it is constantly baffling." how about this? robert f. kennedy jr. of course, recently suspended his presidential campaign to endorse trump, criticized trump's debate performance. >> vice president harris clearly won the debate in terms of her delivery, her polish, her organization, and her preparation. i think on substance, president trump wins in terms of his governance, but he didn't tell that story. >> in the from a guy, john, with an affinity for eating animals that he hit on the side of the road. that's tough criticism. >> central part. >> yeah. >> looked like it was decimated. >> robert f kennedy. there is widespread consternation from inside the

trump camp and other republicans who say -- who said, claimed, that trump was prepared. he was going to go in there and hammer home the economy and immigration. and he did try a couple of times to shoehorn immigration answers into questions, but then he was derailed by talking about eating dogs and cats in ohio. to the point yesterday, the city manager of that town in springfield, ohio, had to hold a news conference. brian probably didn't have this on the bingo card, where his life would lead him, had to say, that didn't happen. the governor of the state, mike dewine, said, it's not true. it's not happening here. it didn't dissuade trump, though, who continued to push it yesterday. he said abc's broadcast license should be taken away because of perceived bias in the state. for republicans, the concern is two-fold. one, they know harris, still unknown to a lot of americans, came out looking good. she passed the commander in

chief test. secondly, trump's craziness was on full display, and she was able to bait him several times into looking unhinged and to getting angry, and reminding americans why they got tired of him in the first place. that, i think, joe, is something that a lot in the trump -- those -- trump's closest advisors, including some i spoke to yesterday afternoon, who said, you know, as they go back and forth as to whether or not they'll debate with her again, they feel they gave her an assist, that trump formed an impression in people's minds who are reminded, who may have had trump amnesia, like, oh, maybe things weren't that bad, maybe we like his economy, whatever it might be, and then they look at that and go, oh, we don't want to do that again. >> no. i mean, 60 million viewers saw that side of donald trump. i mean, 60 million. the only two tv shows in america that people watch more of, the

super bowl and "way too early" with jonathan lemire. >> yeah. >> outside of that -- >> yeah. >> you know what that pressure is like. willie, you know, i think everybody was focused, including republicans, on how badly donald trump did because they didn't focus on how well kamala harris did. it was brought home last night. i was scrolling through the news, and i saw a couple of watch parties. people watching harris. her pausing at certain points, which you're watching it and you're like, you know, you're watching it in your own home and you don't get how everybody is reacting. but people were laughing at her, the pauses. really, after starting the first couple minutes a bit nervous, she really commanded it.

a democrat who worked on presidential campaigns, and mark mckinnon, a republican, who obviously worked on george w. bush's campaigns and mccain's campaign, both said the same thing. they believe it was the best debate performance they have seen since jfk's in 1960. so that is their opinion. i think it is important, when we think about how this debate is going to impact people, we take note of the fact that donald trump lost but, at the same time, in equal measures, kamala harris won. by doing so, with a massive tv audience, she cleared the hurdle. she moved that she was not what the trump right has been calling her for the past four years. >> it was a huge test for her. if you think about the dnc in chicago, there was a great convention, but that's a pep rally. that's a home game. she looked great in that.

the party was unified there. now, she steps into the arena with the opponent. she's in the boxing ring. this isn't sparring anymore. it was real. you make a great point. because donald trump's atrocious, historically terrible performance overshadows, in some ways, the ways in which she instigated his performance, she provoked him and got him to go to his darkest places, and then was able to sit in a split screen. the subtext was, do you want this again, america? rational, sane people who want to live your lives, have a strong economy, take care of your family? do you want to live through this another four, five years? she'd turn and say, he wants to talk about himself. i want to talk about you. i think it was the message she wanted to drive home. charlie sykes, we heard from pollsters, people like focus groups, the dials went down on donald trump when he launched into insane rants about eating

dogs and other things. also the inconsistencies he can't explain away on the issue of abortion, for example. what'd you see as you watched with your trained eye a couple nights ago? >> well, you know, a lot of what we saw with donald trump, you know, the bitterness, the angry, the fabulism is familiar for us who watched donald trump over the last eight years. this may have come as a revelation or reminder to tens of millions of people who were tuning in and go, "oh, my gosh, who is this angry, old man yelling at the clouds here?" as you point out, kamala harris is an unknown factor for many, many, many voters, and she put on a really extraordinary performance. not just disciplined. look, she also won the split screen in a rather dramatic fashion. i think that was a little underappreciated. >> oh, yeah. >> but a couple of things here. i think you highlighted this at the top of the show.

there's a warning here, too. you know, donald trump, as we know, lives in a bubble of delusion. also, what he demonstrated was republicans refuse to take the l. they refuse to acknowledge that -- he refuses to acknowledge he lost. also, they remain addicted to these fake internet memes, even after they have been debunked. they will not let go of the big lie. i think that this is going to be -- this is not a new pattern, for those of us who follow this, but think of this in the context of the election and the big lie. donald trump is creating an alternative reality where he never admits that he loses, and no matter how egregious the lie is, no matter how much it has been refuted, they will stick with it. i think that's extraordinary. how deeply online they've gotten and how, you know, by the way, talk about blatantly racist, you

know, imagery of donald trump saving kittens in america from angry, black men. but they're not letting it go. they won't let these things go. i think this is, again, a marker and a warning for our times. >> you know, willie, there is a parallel. it's not a really strong parallel because nothing compares to donald trump, but you remember when we were covering the 2012 election. mitt romney, his campaign, his family lived inside the fox news bubble. you'll remember on the front page of "drudge" every day was romney plus 11, because the gallup polls were so wildly off. you'll remember that night. i'm saying, this public they live in, where people are going, oh, my, this bubble leads to

disaster most times. you'll remember, mitt romney and ann romney, who people i love, they, late into the evening, they were sure there was something wrong with the numbers. because it went against everything that was in that bubble in 2012. republicans lived in it, even pre-trump. you'll remember karl rove saying, "something is wrong with these numbers." even late into the night, nobody could believe it because they had all been living in a bubble. i'm sorry, but i've just got to say it, this is what's happened every year since 2017. they live in a bubble. they convince themselves that by saying illegal immigrants are coming to america with leprosy, that caravans are coming to eat their children, you know, they think that by saying the most radical, wild things, though it's an exaggeration, that,

somehow, they're going to sway the middle. they never do. it doesn't work. it worked for one day in november nine years ago. when donald trump admitted afterwards to me that the election could have been held on ten days, he may have only one it on that one day. and they have tanked their entire party, destroyed the conservative movement, based on that one day. because a letter was written ten days before that literally changed the outcome of the election. >> yeah. you're talking about a 2012 fox news bubble which, i mean, compare that to what the bubble looks like today, which is -- >> right. >> -- the farthest reaches of the internet. the darkest conspiracy theories you can think of amplified and pushed to the top of a presidential campaign. which gets you a debate like we had two nights ago, elise. as we were saying yesterday,

that was rally donald trump. the curated audience at the rally knows all the lines to the songs. they know about the cat eating thing in springfield, they cheer when they hear that. but there are 67 million people watching the other night. that's a lot of people who don't know about the cat eating conspiracy theory online, or anything else donald trump talked about, going, i want to know which of these people will take care of my family and protect my rights. what on earth is this man talking about? >> when donald trump makes such a crazy comment, it just pops. it becomes the quote of the night, distinguishing just how crazy he is and reminding voters, oh, this guy is not really all there. also, going back to the age issue. he seemed a little slower. he had plenty of facts wrong. you know, mixing up west virginia and virginia.

and kamala harris, she came across as likable. the end of the day, she came across as likable, and donald trump wasn't able to define her and paint her as an extreme liberal. that's what he needed to do. instead, voters got to see a woman who was collected, in command. she was strong. she looked good. she wasn't taking anything from this man ranting at her. >> you know, ed luce, in your latest "ft" column, you talk about how triumphant kamala harris was at her convention, but said there were still fears. there were still lingering doubts about how she would do against donald trump. let me read from your column. you say, "if there were doubts harris could stand up to trump, they were dispelled in the first encounter. it may be their last. the fact she ended tuesday night's debate by calling for another speaks volumes." i love the subhead of this.

you get to really the essence of all of this and why it's so important. "kamala harris has the measure of donald trump." it's the headline. she's the first, ed. think about those 16 republicans in 2016, how lost and confused they were debaing donald trump. think about hillary clinton. when trump came over and stood behind, instead of george bush turning to al gore in 2000 going, like, what's wrong with you, man, and everybody laughing at al gore, hillary just sat there and didn't know quite how to react to it. she's talked about that a good bit. but he's always intimidated, blustered, broke rules through debates, town hall meetings, et cetera. but the headline says it all, "kamala harris has the measure of donald trump." which means he wants no part of

her in a second debate. if he is stupid enough to debate her a second time, we know how it is going to end. >> of course, as we know, joe, he doesn't want to debate her because he's already won and she's desperate because she lost so badly to debate again. it's an extraordinary line that trump has stuck to since then. but she has the measure of him. you'll remember back to tuesday night, i think the moment where it really started to unravel for trump was when she talked about his crowd sizes and invited people to watch them. a unique thing in the history of presidential debates. watch their opponent's rallies. watch how people leave during the rally and yawn and get bored. that, i think, was where trump had started to be really messed with, and he never got it back. because kamala harris had really done her research on him. his foundational myth really of his presidency was the size of

his inauguration crowd in 2017. something that, you know, he said on day one, a direct lie, was far bigger than the one obama had had. this has been a sort of -- it's his gateway myth. you know, once you sort of go through the "i've got the largest crowds in history," then all the other myths flow from that. so she had the measure of him. she went back to the central park five. you know, an issue that dates back more than 40 years. he takes out an ad calling for the execution of what turned out to be innocent people. he doubles down on the central park five. she managed to nail him on a potentially weak issue, which was biden's withdrawal from afghanistan. by pointing out this was his plan. and getting him to say the bizarre -- to me, still, the rich choice, bizarrest bit in

the debate -- where he describes the leader of the taliban, abdul, abdul. a nonexistent person. he chose the name he could remember. i don't know, the leader of the taliban saying, that guy, john, who leads the west, or is it billy? that's the kind of whacky direction she sent his head in because she had prepared so well. she knew exactly what would trigger him. it did. she kept doing it. and i bet she would relish another debate. >> ed, to your point, she was well prepared. she had the dig about wharton business school. trump is a proud alum. she cited the professors there criticizing his plan. they tipped their hand about the crowd size thing. earlier that day, they ran an ad with barack obama and his dnc speech where he poked one at trump's crowd sizes with

accompanying hand gesture. the ad ran in philadelphia where the debate was held and in west palm beach, two places where trump might see it that day. so they knew. they showed the punch was coming, and he still couldn't react. i want to go back to the idea of the ecosystem, the shrinking fever swamp where trump lives that leads him to say things about eating cats. erick erickson, a conservative commentator we quote on this show every so often, on twitter, in a rage, he said, "look what you've done," to trump's aides. "you're showing him this stuff, and it's alienating the voters he needs to win. they have no idea what he is talking about and think it makes him look crazy." in response, a conspiracy theorist, a 9/11 truther, joined him on the trip to new york for the commemoration.

>> he hangs out with laura lumer a lot. steven miller had similar views. laura loomer tweeted something so racist, so nasty about kamala harris and the white house smelling of curry, and kohl centers taking coals if she became president. marjorie taylor greene asked us to take it down. if you offense marjorie taylor greene, i didn't think that was possible. marjorie taylor greene thinks you've gone too far, that says something. this is the kind of person donald trump is hanging out with. he's hanging out with people who tell him, "yes, what you said about crowd sizes is true. yes, what you said about you having the greatest economy in world history is true. what we've been hearing about

people hanging other people's pet dogs or abducting their cats, that's true." he's hanging out with people who say yes back to him. i doubt, frankly, that chris lacivita or susie wiles, who are professionals, worked on other campaigns, are being listened to much at all by donald trump. the more we see of that, a bit like the debate the other night, the more rope he is given to hang himself, the more he will hang himself. >> the woman mentioned here is a reprehensible racist. she calls herself a proud islamophobe, conspiracy theorist on everything from 9/11 to school shootings and everything else. the tweet, which we won't read because it is so deeply ugly, gets at kamala harris' heritage, her identity. the fact she's half indian. leave it there. gets into all the ugliest possible stereotypes about that.

but this is not a casual relationship. this woman is flying on the plane to the debate with donald trump. we should also point out, vice president jd vance is cozying up to people and sort of making excuses for someone entertaining the idea that churchill was the villain of world war ii and not adolf hitler. these are choices. this is not a retweet of somebody. this is not accepting an endorsement and pretending you don't know the person. this is elevating these people. >> and it is extraordinary. laura loomer is not just a bigot. she is a freak. she is at the far edges of the fever swamp. as ed just mentioned, even marjorie taylor greene describes her as racist and offensive. yet, donald trump is associaing with her. these are the kind of people who have his ear right now. so at this moment of the campaign, i mean, think about this. we're less than two months from the election.

donald trump is associating with some of the craziest, weirdest figures on the right. in part, you know, this is kind of the jd vance effect. jd vance and donald trump jr. who decided they want donald trump to be extremely online. you saw that play out during the debate, but you're also seeing it play out, you know, throughout this campaign and all the rallies. in donald trump's head, you have people with the most extreme and bigoted ideas, who are feeding him lines and memes and encouraging him to go places that no politician in our century and, you know, maybe for the last century and a half, have even thought to go. i think this is concerning in terms of this bubble of delusion he's created himself. this bubble of extreism and delusion that he'll carry up until the election and past the election. >> charlie sykes, thanks very much.

u.s. national editor of "the financial times," ed luce. thank you, as well. we'll see you both soon. ahead on "morning joe," we'll take a look at how the harris-walz campaign is looking to build on momentum after the debate. plus, house speaker mike johnson canceled a planned vote on a government funding bill and growing republican infighting. we'll get the latest from capitol hill. you hear the music. here's why. an unbelievable story. jon bon jovi, the music legend, hailed as a hero this morning for possibly saving a woman's life, talking her off a bridge in nashville. incredible story. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ we've got each other and that's a lot more love we'll give it a shot ♪ ♪ oh, we're halfway there ♪ here♪

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a gloomy day here in new york city. 6:33 in the morning. taylor swift's endorsement of vice president kamala harris may boost voter registration for democrats, according to the general services administration. swift's instagram post drove at least 337,000 users to visit vote.gov, a site that helps people to register to vote in their state. donald trump and his running mate, senator jd vance of ohio, reacting now to the news of swift's endorsement of their opponent, vice president harris. >> i was not a taylor swift fan. it was just a question of time.

she couldn't -- you couldn't possibly endorse biden. you look at biden, couldn't possibly endorse him. she's a liberal person, seems to always endorse a democrat. she'll probably pay a price for it at the -- in the marketplace. >> look, we admire taylor swift's music, but i don't think most americans, whether they like her music, fans of hers or not, are going to be influence bid a billionaire celebrity who is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of most americans. >> i mean, this is too easy. this is t-ball. walks right into it, said a billionaire who is disconnected from the lives of everyday americans. come on, man. come on now. >> i mean, what -- yeah. i don't think many people are going to be influenced by billionaire celebrity who i think is disconnected from the interests and the problems of most americans. elise, it is too easy.

i will say, you know, i've never -- you know, i grew up listeningusicians who never supported people i supported and voted for as a conservative. i was like, whatever, you know? i don't expect -- i didn't expect the beatles to play at barry goldwater's convention in '64. people go, oh, they're liberal. whatever. i listen to music. most people listen to music. usually, musicians' endorsements don't mean anything. i will say, if there is one that makes a difference, it'd be taylor swift. it'd be taylor swift because she has such an extraordinary following, a deep following with people of all ages. i actually do think, you know, her getting them out to vote, we're starting to see the registration numbers do up, you know, on the margins, every

little bit helps. when you may win by 50,000 votes in michigan or 30,000 votes in wisconsin or, you know, 15,000 votes in pennsylvania, where i think taylor swift is from, every little bit counts. this may be more than just a little bit. >> joe, i find it fascinating because she is such a cultural icon. i mean, has fueled so many economies around the world by just the merit of touring there. it is hilarious that trump thinks he is going to hurt her business because her business is doing just fine. who can afford tickets to even go to her concerts because she's so in demand? but earlier in june, with the lincoln democracy institute, i did some focus groups that used the video of taylor swift talking about politics with her dad, and debating getting involved and speaking out in the tennessee senate election.

it was interesting as a way to explore how women talk to the men in their lives. women are so connected under the age of 20 especially to taylor swift. they relate to her, and she's having fun. she's a good role model. at concerts it's about going, being kind to each other, and having fun. that echoes what kamala harris is doing. she is having fun. she's way more likable than, you know, a lot of candidates we've had in the past. so you have all the little girls talking to their dads who might lean conservative, and their little girls are pressuring them to give it another look. i'm interested to see how this plays out. >> we'll see. certainly, it's fascinating. jonathan lemire, just in terms of momentum, having somebody that has -- that is a bigger cultural icon than anyone in music in just decades, could

have an impact. it is also interesting, i think it was marcia blackburn who taylor swift wanted to go against and support marcia blackburn's opponent. i think they asked marcia blackburn about it. she handled it pretty well. from what i remember, she wasn't like, oh, taylor swift is evil. she goes, yeah, whatever. which i think, in this case, is really good. it's a shame that donald trump, as everybody is saying, cannot pass up a slight. he's like marty mcfly in "back to the future." he can't pass up a slight, and it always gets him in trouble. in this case with taylor swift, she is a good role model for a lot of kids, if you look at what people like kobe bryant said of her. it's work ethic. she got to where she got because she had a goal from a young age and she worked hard. she worked around the clock. she never gave up.

she put her head down. she had no contacts, just a middle class girl from pennsylvania, and she achieved superstardom. that's, again, i think for most parents, that's a pretty good role model. somebody who, when they become massive cultural icons, actually could have an impact on, many not changing a lot of votes, getting a lot of people, you know, out working for kamala harris. >> yeah. taylor swift works hard, writes her own songs, builds a connection with her audience, cares about her audience, and that's why they listen to her. we see it here. 337,000 people went to vote.gov and registered to vote in the first 24 hours after swift put up on instagram that she was endorsing vice president harris. there is a limit to how much celebrity endorsements matter. this one could, though. this is the exception.

i think it also, adding to the theme of tuesday night, gets under donald trump's skin. he is obsessed with celebrity. he has repeatedly complained to advisors that they can't get bigger names to back him. they have to settle for kid rock at the convention. not getting the a-listers who surround democrats who are surrounding vice president harris. remains to be seen. her team floated privately they'd love to see if taylor swift would want to do an event or two for more. there are more hopes that beyonce might. there have been talks there, willie. people expect that could happen in the stretch run of the campaign. again, a celebrity concert, we know, these things don't always work out. remember the tens of thousands of people who showed up in front of independent hall in philadelphia for hillary clinton, listening to bruce springsteen. the night before the election, that didn't work out. taylor swift, especially doing it now, early voting beginning, but there's still time to register to vote, that could have an impact. >> yeah. it's funny to hear donald trump

say it is going to hurt her in the marketplace. >> pretty sure not. >> she might sell out wembley nine times instead of ten. in washington, house speaker mike johnson pulled a government funding bill off the house floor just hours before its scheduled vote yesterday. the move came as several house republicans vowed to tank it. congress has about two weeks to pass government funding to avoid a shutdown. let's bring in capitol hill correspondent for nbc, ali vitali. what happened here? >> reporter: willie, as hard as it was for me to listen to you talk about taylor swift as a swiftie, wanting to jump in. >> start there. >> we will. that's the pain mike johnson is in now with his own conference. i have to tell you, he's once again in a position of being squeezed by members of his own party who don't like the plan he put forward on a six-month extension of government funding, that is also then paired with the save act, which would prevent non-citizens from voting. as we've said here and on other shows before, it's already

illegal. nevertheless, that's the plan he put forward. that's the plan that lacked the votes. my understanding heading into yesterday, and leadership knew this, they knew they had a vote margin of 15 to 20 republicans who were not going to get on board with this. there was a chance they were going to put it on the floor anyway and let it fail. that's embarrassing to leadership. certainly not the way we've seen things done in congress under people like speaker nancy pelosi, who infamously always knew where her vote count was. for mccarthy and then, of course, now johnson, they've seen things fail on the floor before. they've received that embarrassment. yesterday, it seems, they wanted to avoid that. but without a change of plan, they're going to keep running against that brick wall. that's where it becomes a short-term problem for johnson on government funding but also a longer-term problem for johnson, who if republicans retain the majority, would like to keep his speakership. if they don't, is also going to still be in a battle to keep his place as the top republican. in that case, as minority

leader. all of that is a thorny issue anyway, but this is now something that has both short-term implications and longer-term implications for johnson as a leader of the party. then, of course, that's nothing to say of the donald trump of it all, who has said that he's -- i think he'd shut down the government in a heart beat, is the phrase he used, to keep the save act in there and do the funding in this fashion. when you have all these dynamics, it is difficult, once again, for the speaker and, of course, the senate realities are they don't want to do it this way anyway. we're at a stalemate. 19 days until a government shutdown. that's an eternity in congress time. nevertheless, we're watching them here kind of chase their tails as they try to find some kind of a fashion to fund the government and not shut down the government before an election. i think most republicans are aware that doesn't behoove them. nevertheless, donald trump is saying he's fine with it. >> he's writing in all caps on his social media, "close it down." talking about the government. >> exactly.

>> the save act, the voter id piece is not in there. as we've seen from the immigration legislation, that month-long, he has the ability to pull that string and kill legislation. we'll see if it happens here. as you say, about 19 days until the deadline of october 1st. >> forever. >> do you want in on taylor swift? >> i always want in on taylor swift. >> go ahead. >> look, the only thing i was thinking about when you guys were talking is this idea that she doesn't have an impact. this is a woman who made grown people, adults, make friendship bracelets. everyone from, you know, senators on capitol hill on the democratic side to nikki haley, when i was covering her campaign, were wearing them and sporting every manner of slogan. the idea that taylor swift doesn't have impact is insane to me. also, she's a universal voice who speaks to universal experience, and she speaks predominantly to women. i think that, for most women who might be swifties, who might not

be in the sphere of talking about politics, she's bringing awareness. when 337,000 people went to vote.gov, they all didn't register to vote but a good amount probably did. devaluing a taylor swift endorsement is generally saying that you don't understand how women who are swifties, a, talk to people in their lives, are probably pretty type a, if i think about all my friends who were swifties. she is someone who has influence over a large swath of voters, who are, again, predominantly women, and who will probably be motivated by the central issues of this election. >> ali, i want to assure you, and i want to assure all the taylor fans in my life, that nobody here is devaluing taylor swift's endorsement. >> i know that. you guys do not. >> we're playing it careful,

though. i don't want to say the election is over. taylor swift. no, but i will say, it is remarkable to me, and, again, willie, you remember we had this conversation after "1989" came out, her album. you know, i'm a rock snob. my pantheon of greats in rock music are like, you know, the beatles, the rolling stones, the who, stevie wonder. you know, it's pretty -- carole king, of course. our friend carole king. there aren't a lot of people i would put in the rock pantheon. but, willie, i mean, she was there after "1989." her success is only, you know, increased exponentially. yeah, this is about as significant as the beatles in, you know, 1964, you know,

endorsing somebody. so, yeah, we're not devaluing it. >> no, you guys never were. >> okay, good. ali, then it might be safe for me to go home after this show then. >> we need ali's swiftie stamp of approval. >> go back to the swiftie group chat, it'll be okay. >> we needed a swiftie on the panel this morning. appreciate you being here. a fact-check of the presidential debate, a lot to check. steve rattner over at the southwest wall where he belongs. debunking some of donald trump's lies when "morning joe" comes right back ♪ it's a cruel summer ♪ ♪ it's a cruel summer with you ♪

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rock and roll icon jon bon jovi help add woman in dispress distress on a bridge in nashville. it happened tuesday. police releasing a surveillance video. jon bon jovi talking a woman off the bridge. you can see him walking over to her. after about a minute, he and a member of his team helped the woman back onto the walkway. he gives her a hug, seen talking to her. a representative for the singer has not responded to nbc's

request for comment. the nashville police posted this video saying that is jon bon jovi, and they were grateful to him and his team member there for coaxing, we think, the woman off a bridge. incredible, john. >> remarkable moment. he was apparently shooting a music video on the bridge. that's why he was there with his team. they spotted this woman who appeared to be in distress on the other side, as you can see here, on the other side of the ledge. several hundred feet up from the water. bon jovi, the singer, walks over there and proceeds to talk to her, gives her a hug, and helps her get back to safety. remarkable. just stepping up in a moment of need. bon jovi did it, and this woman, you know, she and her family, i'm sure, deeply grateful. >> there's video of it, where you can see he sees something isn't quite right. he and his friend walk over. he calmly leans onto the ledge there of the bridge and is seen talking to the woman for some time. then physically, the two of them lifting her over the bridge. then he talks to her for a

couple more minutes before embracing her and getting her in a hug. elise, just really an extraordinary moment. >> a really nice, human moment. realizing, i mean, he's busy shooting a music video, just as we're rushing through our lives, trying to balance so many different things. but just being present and realizing what someone else is going through and noticing and taking the time to actually show some empathy. and how important that is and how easy it is to overlook, just slowing down for a second and considering what other people are going through. he saved a life. it is really moving and special. >> anybody who has been around him knows he is a wonderful, wonderful man. it was on display there. an impromptu moment, not for the cameras, just to help a woman on the bridge in nashville. ahead, congressman jola

neguse joins us about negotiations. where it may head next. plus, a look at a new series that dives into the history and, at times, overlooked contributions of latinos in america with john leguizamo. also ahead -- >> beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice. >> beetlejuice! >> first of all, i want you kids to know, this is a safe space, okay? feel free to express yourself. don't be afraid. i sense there is an enabler there. >> that's the hit movie "beetlejuice, beetlejuice." one of the stars of the film, justin theroux, joins us live in studio this morning to talk about "beetlejuice, beetlejuice." "morning joe" is coming right back.

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offguard. whether you like him or her, the fact of the matter is she was ready, he was not. you know, she took the battle to him, and he took the bait. she decisively lost it. he might have made some very good presentations on where the economy was, but it was all over the map. this is that first occasion where it wasn't just a close call.

it was a lopsided one. >> that is fox news host neil cavuto with his assessment of the debate two nights ago. jonathan lemire, elise jordan still with us. joining the conversation, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. senior political columnist for "politico," jonathan martin. political strategist mark mckinnon. and analyst and publisher of the newsletter "the ink," anand with his piece, "kamala harris won by being all the things." first, from conspiracy theories to exaggerated claims, fact-checkers kept busy during tuesday night's debate during donald trump and kamala harris. joining us now, former treasury official, "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. is he at the southwest wall? >> yeah. >> we have to race him to the southwest wall. there he is. >> he made it. >> good hustle, steve. there he is, stepping onto the stage. all right. steve, let's -- >> dun, dun, dun, dun. >> it was like "the tonight show." we needed the curtain, though.

donald trump's claim about the rate of violent crime across the country, especially crime involving migrants. let's watch. >> sure, willie. >> despite the fraudulent statements they made, crime in this country is through the roof. we have a new form of crime, called migrant crime. >> all right, steve, what's the reality there? >> so the reality there, and we've talked about this before, for some reason, donald trump can't process the actual numbers. he prefers to deal in his alternate reality. the reality is that violent crime dropped 26% under the biden-harris administration. it has gone from 398 per 100,000 people to 294 per 100,000 people. this is an annualized figure, so it is a significant drop this year, in particular. under the trump administration, violent crime was effectively flat, went up a little bit. that was covid, in fairness. basically no progress. huge progress under biden in violent crime. now, one of the things that the

former president, the other guy, would like us all to think is all this violent crime, however much there is, is being committed by immigrants. we've talked about this before, also. it doesn't seem to have penetrated either. the fact is, when you look at who commits violent crimes, it is disproportionately native-born americans, not immigrants. this is the rate of crime produced by native-born americans. this is by legal immigrants. this is by undocumented immigrants. if you look at property crime, if you look at drug violations, you're going to find the same thing. it's not that crazy to think about. if you come here and you're undocumented immigrant, you don't want to be sent back. you're much more likely to be a law-abiding citizen. documented immigrants are happy to be here. they don't want to commit crimes. so the high crime rates are really among native-born americans, and they've been going down. this is utterly contrary to what

donald trump said. >> so i want to just stop here for a second. we just need to underline these two facts. first of all, regarding the, m reality is, this has been the case for years. for years, when donald trump and other demagogues have been talking about illegal immigrants coming into america and then committing a vast array of crimes, it's just not true. the data never shows it. by the way, i've always said my entire life, adult life, that the first thing somebody should do when they come to america shouldn't be breaking a crime. yes, cross the border illegally, that's a crime. they shouldn't do that. i wish trump would not have killed our border security bill that, you know, republicans wanted to pass and democrats wanted to pass. i just -- this bears repeating, what you said.

this isn't a new fact. this is an ongoing fact. the second thing, steve, is the big lie that -- another big lie that crime is just rampant. look at your numbers. per 100,000, let's underline this, the crime rates thus far per 100,000 residents, lower, violent crime rate, than any year that donald trump was president. in fact, lower per 100,000 people, crime rate, some are saying if the numbers hold out, it'll be the lowest number since 1950. underline just the difference between perception and reality on this front. >> yeah, i don't have 1950 here, but you can see, even from the beginning of obama, what's happened to the crime rate from here to here. a material amount of it, again, just to repeat, has come under

the biden administration. >> yeah. another obvious lie. an obvious lie that people like neil cavuto and commentators on cnbc, a lot of businesspeople that support donald trump will tell you is a lie, is the claim that tariffs won't raise prices. let's take a look at that lie. >> they're not going to have higher prices. who is going to have higher prices is china and all of the countries that have been ripping us off for years. >> what are the facts? >> all right. >> what are the facts, steve? >> it's amusing to me as, you know, an economics guy, that trade and tariffs have not been this much of an issue, i think since cleveland and harrison, when they fought about tariffs. every american now has heard a lot about tariffs, so let's talk about the reality of tariffs. trump says china is going to pay the tariffs, or whatever country is goods are coming from. that is utterly false. first, the tariffs are paid by

the companies who bring the goods into the country, not by a foreign country. what do the economies do if paying tariffs? they raise their prices. here is a real-life example. these are laundry machine prices. trump imposed tariffs on them in 2018. prices immediately or, over a period of time, went up $200. that was faster than the increase in the rate of inflation. biden allowed the tariffs to expire. prices went down $75. all in all, the price of laundry machines is now increased bid by less than the overall inflation rate. put tariffs on, prices go up. take them off, prices go down. there are national sales tax, just as kamala harris said, paid by the consumer. let's see what the consumer is paying. there's various estimates around what the trump tax tariffs would cost. he's talking about 20% on everything. 60% on what comes in from china.

there are estimates it'd cost between $2,600 and $4,000 a year per family. that is not equally distributed. taxes are regressive. people at the lower end pay a higher share of income, just like in sales tax, in tariffs. you can see the impact here. if you're at the bottom, the trump tariffs would cost 6.3% of your income, of your after-tax income. if you're at the top, it would only cost you 2.9% of your after-tax income. we are, in effect, and it's not huge numbers, we are making the wealthier wealthier and the poorer poorer when we put taxes on, as well as burdening the whole society with anywhere up to $4,000 of additional cost per family. >> steve, we held up the front page of the "wall street journal" earlier. "inflation slows to 3-year low." when you talk about tariffs, how does "the wall street journal" editorial board, how do some of the guys on wall street that you know so well and talk to, who support donald trump, how do they go along with a tariff

program, which you lay out clearly, and every economist will do for you, as well, that plainly, it's a tax on everyday americans? >> i think "the wall street journal" editorial board knows they support trump in face of the tariffs. you get bad stuff with trump. you saw their editorial after the debate. they've acknowledged it. you also get a pro-business, pro-deregulation, get all this stuff. when you line it up against the democrats, they still think from a business point of view, you're better off. but they hate this. they think this is bad for our economy and for basically not just companies but for consumers. >> it appears to be foundation of his plan. last week, he said he'd pay for child care with tariffs. let's move on. donald trump making false claims about oil production in america, as well as spending on ukraine. let's listen. >> i got the oil business going like nobody has ever done before. they took -- when they took

over, they got rid of it. we're in for $250 billion or more because they don't ask europe, which is a much bigger beneficiary to getting this thing done than we are, they're in for $150 billion less. because biden and you don't have the courage to ask europe. >> what's the truth on these two? >> you know, he got his numbers almost exactly reversed. it's quite remarkable. at least he had some numbers in his head, they were just the wrong ones for the wrong thing. the fact is, europe has been far more generous to ukraine, as we have been, over $180 billion to ukraine. we are limping -- i shouldn't say lumping along because it's a reasonable amount of money. we are sending $100 billion. this whole flat line piece here, you'll remember the fight last spring about whether to give them money at all. it barely got done at all. we are, by far, the laggards in who is contributing more to the

ukraine problem. >> "morning joe" economic analyst, as always, breaking it down with facts. we appreciate it, steve. great to have you with us. we'll see you soon. anand, let's talk a little about the debate. in your latest piece you write, quote, "the most important new thing i saw kamala harris do was pre-bunking, not debunking, waiting for someone to lie and then hitting back with the truth. it doesn't work in politics as much as you'd hope it would in an age saturated by lies. but pre-bunking works better. pre-bunking is explaining to people how they are being or will be manipulated. what the motive is, how the con works, how the lie will be crafted, and how it'll function. for extra credit, who benefits from it and how? in the age of trump, too many of he has opponents have been all debunk and no pre-bunk," writes anand giridharadas. she said at the outlet, you'll hear a whole bunch of lies tonight. as he rolled them out, she explained why they were lies. >> one of the most interesting stories about the ascension of

kamala harris to the top of the ticket is she has brought with her a lot of the new thinking that has been circulating in these conversations in the democratic party about how to run campaigns. i think she's elevated. one of the things is pre-bunking. it simply does not work to fact-check donald trump. journalists should do it, but his lies, it doesn't reach people when you say, actually, this was the crowd size. no, actually, this happened on january 6th. but if you explain, as the clip showed, what this pre-bunking kind of tells you to do is explain why this is happening, how it's happening. she did it several times. she did it about foreign autocrats. if you're hearing foreign autocrats say nice things about this guy, here's why. it's not because he is a tough, strong guy like he tells you. he is amenable to flattery and

favor. and why this works against lies and disinformation is that it works a little bit like vaccines, just to inflame the right even more. actually, by kind of exposing people in advance to a little bit of what's about to come, you prepare them better than when they hear it. you know, they're more kind of careful about immediately believing it. i thought that was a very, very interesting thing she did. multiple times throughout that night. >> mike barnicle, anand brings up such a good point. it was a brilliant tactic. she's been a lawyer, obviously, prosecutor, attorney general. it's what you do to juries. you reported on a lot of trials in boston. what does defense counsel always do? they'll get up and say, "now, you're going to hear from, you know, the state, a, b, c, d, and they're going to tell you one,

two, three, four. let me tell you why they're wrong." and he's so right, kamala harris planted that in people's minds, saying, this is what you're going to get. sure enough, donald trump didn't disappoint. that is the antithesis of the 16 poor republicans standing on the stage in 2016, and everybody else that had to respond to one lie after another lie after another lie, after the horse had already left the barn, as they would say. >> in addition to everything you just said in your apt description of who she is, former prosecutor, her behavior, her command of the situation the other evening, she was also, for all practical purposes, an incumbent standing on the stage against donald trump. he was a challenger. and brushing off the challenger with facts, even before the debate begins, i think changed

and altered everything that evening. from the handshake that she walked across the stage to give to him, which probably threw him off a little. we don't know for sure. probably threw him off his game a bit. but going right after him with such command. command of the stage. her command presence. and the way she went after him, that was really the evening. boom, it was over before it began. >> yeah. mark ckinnon, yesterday, you and bob shrum had a back and forth. you both agreed kamala harris' debate performance, as a republican and a democrat, who had prepared presidents for several debates or presidential candidates for several debates, you said, it was one of the best you've ever seen. shrum said, you know, going back to jfk in 1960, it's the best he's seen. >> jfk in 1960 and ronald reagan in 1980. neil cavuto on fox said the

obvious at the top of your segment. she was ready. he was not. it's obvious. what's not obvious is how hard it is to do. it takes incredible preparation. people may be born natural communicators but nobody is a natural debater. it takes intense preparation. if you try to wing it like donald trump did, or barack obama or george bush did in their incumbent re-elects, you get your ass kicked like donald trump did. talk about what she did there. she introed herself. she was relaxed, confident, looked presidential. she commanded the split screen, which is a real talent. you have to learn how to do that. it was amazing. she looked like she was having a day at the beach in the sun. he looked like she was in a hailstorm in the freezing cold. not only did she troll trump incredibly, but she also trolled him with a pivot. she trolled him when she was getting on a weak spot, on immigration, she was pinned on immigration. what does she do? turns it and takes on trump. the thing that's important to

recognize, too, joe, is that people say, well, presidents never debate. they're not thrown into a situation where camera is on them, okay, you have 30 seconds, but they're asked to prepare for highly intense situations, like dealing with a foreign leader. she showed she's willing to put in the work and do the preparation. one last point. this is kind of inside baseball, but, you know, you've got to give a shout-out to karen dunn, who is hall of fame, like bob shrum, the best in the business in preparation. there are people who do the really hard work of organizing, making sure they get every pivot point, be prepared for everything. i heard from a reliable source that not only did she do that, she did it at the same time she was preparing for a major law firm for a major trial for a major company the same week. >> jonathan martin, news just coming in. former attorney general alberto gonzales, the ag to former

president george w. bush, posted an endorsement in "politico" of kamala harris. >> yeah. >> few days after liz cheney and dick cheney, not a group of liberal squishes here, coming out. he's making a -- [ laughter ] >> never heard that term. >> makes a long and detailed critique of donald trump, of his lack of respect for the rule of law, of his affinity for authoritarianism, and he believes kamala harris will uphold those things. >> yeah. well, i'm just looking forward to the bernie sanders and dick cheney retreat at camp david next year, where they're going to plot the first kamala harris term. it'll be an interesting film. yeah, look, i think there's going to be a lot more people who come out from the kind of bush orbit. guys, to me, the big question is, the former president himself, george w. bush. he's the most prominent american figure who has not been accounted for yet on the great question of our time, which is trump, for or against him. he's trying to pull option c.

frankly, there's just not an option c. it's hard to sustain that, but it looks like he is going to try here for one more term. but if you're george w. bush and you see donald trump stand up on stage and you say, there's something new called migrant crime. george w. bush ran a campaign famously, as joe knows, where he said, family values do not stop at the rio grande. he was trying to reorient his party around a different approach when it came to migration and, frankly, the hispanic community. for george w. bush to, i think, see what donald trump is doing, which is effectively make his entire campaign about demagoguing immigrants, and stay silent, i think has to be difficult. i know why he wants to stay out of it, but i think it's got to be tough for the former president, given where his heart is on those kinds of issues, to stay out of this game. because, again, that is the centerpiece of the campaign. haitians are eating dogs in an

american city. all the crime is being caused by migrants. nevermind the facts. that's the centerpiece of the trump campaign and the gop campaign this fall, is bashing immigrants. you know, that's not what those folks signed up for in austin, and i think it's got to be hard to watch it now. >> george w. bush said he's not going to make a public endorsement of a candidate in this race. one excerpt in this piece from former attorney general gonzales, he writes, "there is little evidence that donald trump has the integrity and character to responsibly wield the power of the presidency within the limits of the law. and no amount of rationalization to support trump because of his policies can overcome disqualification based on the lack of integrity for this man." that's the former attorney general for george w. bush. >> bush obviously vilified by a lot of people on the left as

being, you know, shredding the constitution. i always talked about my walks up and down the upper west side, all the hitler mustaches on bush here, bush there. you know, there's been such a dramatic assessment of george w. bush, and that usually happens when you're responsible for a program that saves over 20 million lives in africa. that usually happens when people look back at what donald trump has done and, as j-mart said, remember the man saying that family values don't end at the rio grande river. when you have a man, after 9/11, after 9/11, going to a mosque and embracing arab-americans, saying they are every bit as much of american as am i. that is somebody with an eye toward his legacy that, you know, i would hope -- and i know a lot of people would hope -- would reconsider standing on the sidelines, just for legacy sake.

dick cheney is not standing on the sidelinsidelines. trump's own generals aren't standing on the sidelines. conservatives over the past 30 years, conservative leaders over the past 30 years are not standing on the sidelines. it'd be significant and, well, the right thing to do, i think, if he did get off the sidelines and actually tell the truth about donald trump. >> yeah. i think it would be significant. a lot of these endorsements don't move the needle that much, when a republican or former republican comes out for kamala harris. says, no, i can't stand for donald trump. i think the former president, a former president of the united states, i think that would make the difference. i think it also would send donald trump into spasms of rage and who knows how he would respond. but as willie noted, the former president's team has consistently said he's not going to do that. he is not involved in presidential politics anymore. we have 50 plus days to see, perhaps, if that will change. j-mart, we've talked a lot

this morning about republicans and their second-guessing as to how trump handled the debate and the worry that come with it. let's go to kamala harris. her team previewing what she plans to do next. battleground state tour begins in north carolina today, pennsylvania tomorrow. she'll sit with more interviews, perhaps with local affiliates more than national ones. we'll see more of her blanketing the battleground states. >> yeah. >> what's your assessment of what you think she needs to do? is there anything she didn't accomplish tuesday she still needs to in the days ahead? >> tell the story of what she would do as president and put more meat on the bone. i think the immediate decision after the debate, the call for a second debate by the harris campaign, was two things. it was an cknowledacknowledgmen did a good job, but it was a concession. she needs to outline her agenda

to the american voter. in part, because she became the nominee half an hour ago. but there's also work to be done. they have to be much more open about access to her. what are they afraid of at this point? she had a great speech at the convention. obviously met the moment at the debate. at some point, it reflects a lack of confidence in the candidate if you're not letting the candidate do any real interviews or rope line conversations at all here. everything is constrained and sort of under control. one more thing. the more interviews you do, one passing gaffe or mistake in an interview is not going to be as damaging if there's five more the next day. guys, take off the restraints. free kamala. >> we'll see if they take that advice. anand, given how horrible donald trump performed in the debate,

how well kamala harris did, donald trump brought a 9/11 truther to a 9/11 event. she's traveling on the plane. despicable racist and conspiracy theorist. all that is in the stew, we know, and, yet, this is coming down to the wire again. how do you see it playing out between now and election day? >> i mean, i think we always -- that's the key fact here. you know, you can have a commanding performance. you can have a night like that. you can have a month of extraordinary vibes, as she had, and this is still a country where roughly half of people are staring openly at a movement that is anti-democratic, that flirts with fascism, that talks about dictatorship. and aboutamericans, i think at this point with clear-eyes and knowing what they're choosing, are saying, "yeah, that." she had a great night, extraordinary night. she's had a great summer. but i think now, there is, as they say all the time, there is

a lot of room to grow still. they need to translate all of this to the taylor swift of it all, also, into a real movement that attracts even more people, that revs up their own people to vote, and creates a real passion. she's done a great job doing it. i agree with jonathan. i think getting out and talking to the media. by the way, us in the media sometimes, there's elements of us that ask gotcha questions. she doesn't have to talk to those folks. go sit for the ezra klein show. he'll talk for two hours. do podcasts where people sit for three hours and go into deep stuff. there is an opportunity to have bold policy vision, that is not just wonky but thrilling to people. people could say, wow, i could have that this time next year if you do that. i think she still has an opportunity to tell a story that connects her biography to the larger american story in a way that barack obama did. it's not just being the middle class kid.

she's done a little bit of it, but if you think about what happened with obama in 2008, it was a weaving of self-biography into a, you know, 400 year american story in a way that everyone else felt like, oh, if i do this thing, i'm redeeming the country. she needs to find that story. i think it is sitting there for her if she wants it. >> anand, i always talk about the need for us to figure out a way forward, to figure out how to be after this election, if donald trump is defeated, to remember of those who supported donald trump, the words of lincoln at the end of his civil war. much greater situation. 600,000, 700,000 people died because of the actions of the confederacy. what did lincoln say? with malice toward none.

okay, i got that. i'm glad that joe biden went and showed people, you know, what that grace is like. president trump supporter in pennsylvania. i mean, a lot of people might not have liked what he did. i liked what he did. i like what it says. one america. let's work through this. so all of that, let's put that right here. now, let's go over here, and i want to follow up with something you said. even if kamala harris wins, even if she wins in an electoral landslide, the morning after the election, we will be seeing close to 80 million americans endorsing donald trump's view of america, donald trump's autocratic view of america. donald trump, the only foreign leader that donald trump could say embraced him was viktor

orban, who was bragged about destroying western democracy. donald trump, who refused to say, i want ukraine to push back putin's russian invaders. a man who said he would terminate the constitution. a man who said he would be a dictator from day one. the man who said that black immigrants eat pets. the man who has said -- he used fascist terms time and tame again. i haven't even gotten to january 6th. we can go on and on. i could do it for three hours. so the question is, and it's something i'm grappling with now, how do we put our arms around the fact that even if harris wins, we will wake up the morning after with close to 80 million people endorsing donald trump's anti-democratic view of america? >> i deeply agree with that. the problem with elections is, i mean, they're so important and

it's the deadline that everybody is always focused on, the immediate thing. what you described in some ways is the real work. because, as you say, you know, we have a technology for getting rid of bad leaders, right? it's called elections. if you have 80 million people who have now had eight or nine years of exposure to the authoritarian offerings of donald trump, which is not a new thing. they've seen the ups, the downs. they've had him as president. they kicked the tires. they've gone for a very long test drive. if at the end of that nine-year arc, we are essentially still now a country where 80 million people want authoritarianism, you're right, winning an election is not going to resolve that. it'll keep it at bay. i think there need to be people who are not immediately focused on november and who are freed from that work, who are thinking about the generational challenge. this is a 30-year bit of work.

this is an organizing challenge of a generation. you know, i blame leaders, but you can't really blame your fellow citizens in a democracy. you have to work them. you have to invite them into a vision that is more compelling than what they're being attracted to. i believe that very deeply. right now, 80 million of our neighbors, uncles, and aunts, and people you went to high school with, people who you are in a family with, who you see at thanksgiving every year, 80 million of our people, who we share a heart and country with, want authoritarianism, want this kind of white nationalism, and we have to win them back. there is no long-term strategy to save this country but winning them back. >> it's well said. 67 million people watched the debate the other night, and a lot watched what we watched and said, that's my guy. they're watching donald trump on that night and say, that's my guy.

mark mckinnon, we'll let you have the final word on where things go from here. game out the race a little as you travel the country for "the circus." what should we be watching for? >> one quick point on the last one. a "washington post" reporter recently, a quarter of republicans think trump should seize power even if he loses. that testifies to the depth of the challenge ahead. the thing i'll say is that, here's an anecdotal thing that happened yesterday at the airport. i ran into a woman from ukraine. she said, i have a daughter in college in sorority sisters who never voted before all watched the debate. every one of them are voting for kamala harris. the thing that i think is happening under the radar, and not reasonably reported, and we'll find out, is just the extent to which we talk about undecided voters. i don't think there are many of those. there may be a lot of unregistered voters. you think about how harris may be tapping into those younger voters, younger women.

think about the taylor swift effect. i think taylor swift should go out and do concerts and make it free for anybody who is unregistered. if they show up, they have to register. do that in swing states. the unregistered voters and the number of those that may be showing up may be the big factor in this election we haven't fully accounted for. >> activating voters who were saying in polls when joe biden was at the top of the ticket, weren't engaged and would probably stay on the sideline. mark mckinnon, jonathan martin, anand giridharadas, thank you, guys, so much. >> thank you. ahead, donald trump will deliver remarks later this afternoon in arizona. we'll talk to democratic senator of that state, mark kelly, ahead of the former president's visit to the key battleground. first, assistant democratic leader congressman joe neguse joins us to weigh in on the funding fight on capitol hill. lawmakers facing the possibility of a shutdown at the end of the month. we'll get the latest when "morning joe" comes right back.

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republicans were vowing to kill it. speaker promising his leadership team will work through the weekend to flip the party defectors. joining us now, congressman neguse of colorado. what's your thoughts of the republican party and what are your objections to the bill? >> it is deeply concerning that house republicans are once again threatening to shut down the government. it should concern each and every american. as you know, unfortunately, over the last 20 or so months, house republicans here on capitol hill have become synonymous with dysfunction and chaos. that is certainly the case, evidenced just in the last 48 hours, of course, by speaker johnson and house republicans pursuing a deeply partisan continuing resolution that would harm, in my view and in the view of others, our nation's veterans. it'd cut funding for social security and ultimately is inspired by trump's project 2025. that continuing resolution, they

had to pull from the floor yesterday because of some opposition from within the republican ranks. so in my view, there's only one path forward, it is a bipartisan path forward. i believe that house republicans should work with us in good faith and should stop trying to abandon the agreement that they reached in the first instance. as you know, as you'll recall, a year and a half ago, house democrats working with republicans, of course, working with our partners in the senate and with president biden, reached an agreement with republican to fiscal year 2024 and 2025 funding levels. the bipartisan fiscal responsibility act. that is the agreement that house republicans are seeking to break. they're doing so at the behest of former president trump, as is often the case, unfortunately, in the house republican conference. >> congressman, let's take this fight to restore the budget or pass the budget out of washington. let's try and put a face on it. a lot of america, especially in the west coast, is literally

burning. firefighters fighting those fires. wildfire firefighter. if they don't get action taken on this bill by september 30th, their pay reverts to the federal $15 per hour. they are vastly underpaid now as it is. what about people like that being victimized by inaction and politics in washington? >> you articulated it so well with respect to the stakes and the looming crisis we face in terms of the fact that wildland firefighters are already woefully underpaid and undercompensated. of course, we see that in my state. i represent the state of colorado. we've had our share of wildfires, of course, both in our state and across the rocky mountain west. our wildland firefighters are working hard each and every day, sacrificing on our behalf to protect our communities. in 19 days, they will face a drastic pay cut if the united states congress does not act and

ultimately fund the operations of the government and include authorization, reauthorization, rather, of the pay increases that we previously fought for and that president biden signed into law as part of the bipartisan infrastructure law. it's another example of why it is critically important for house republicans to stop playing games and to work with us on a bipartisan path forward. >> congressman, the former president's declaration about springfield, ohio, and how haitian immigrants were eating pets, certainly got most of the headlines, but that's not the only city he's highlighted in recent days. aurora, colorado, this is part of the right-wing echo chamber, "the new york post" put it on the front page, suggesting venezuelan migrants are a gang that have basically taken over portions of this town. police not able to do anything about it. the mayor says, that's not true. we have the situation under control. give us your thoughts. this is your home state. moreover, the othering, the idea

that this is not just a stereotype, it is a racist stereotype coming from the former president. how dangerous is this? >> well, as you know, i represent the state of colorado, but i'm also the son of immigrants. i would just say, i don't typically respond to former president trump's offensive comments. he has, of course, traded on language around division and dividing the american people and inflaming tensions. that has been his calling card. i think the american people have had enough. anyone who watched that debate saw in vice president harris someone who is offering a hopeful, optimistic vision for the future of our country, and, ultimately, an inclusive approach to governing, one that brings everyone in, irrespective of your underlying philosophy. very different, of course, from former president trump and his dangerous rhetoric. i think at the end of the day, the american people will choose optimism and hope every day of the week. it's why i am so confident that

vice president harris will become the 47th president of the united states. >> congressman neguse, flipping to politics for a bit, as a democratic leader, where do you see potential pickup opportunities for the democratic party when it comes to house seats? >> well, first, let me just say, i think we have incredible candidates running across the country. leader jeffries has done a masterful job leading our caucus and working to ensure that all our efforts are geared toward ultimately reclaiming a majority in the u.s. house of representatives. i have every confidence that, in a few months, we will make history when we elect him as the first african american speaker of the united states house of representatives. there are incredible candidates running in places like oregon, in california, new york, any number of states where we have opportunities, i think, to elect public servants who believe in putting people over politics. many of whom are running against a maga sycophant, folks who would ultimately do the bidding

of former president trump. i'm excited, of course, not just about our candidates running across the country, but the incredible members of the house democratic caucus who are working each and every day to deliver for the people of america and who i believe ultimately will be re-elected and will be a part of this new generation of leadership come january of next year. >> democratic leader, congressman joe neguse of colorado, good to have you on the show. thank you. >> thank you. up next, john leguizamo joins us at the table. a look at his new series and delve into the history and some of the untold contributions of latinos in america. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪♪ why won't scout play with us anymore?

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by the time i graduated from high school, most of my black and brown friends and filipinos, they had dropped out, not finishing high school, what we call a pushout because they have an unwelcome climate. the way you're treated in school, the kids don't feel welcome, and i had this anger inside of me that i never knew what to do with it until i learned how to organize. >> when you became an activist, did you have role models? how did you figure out how to become such a great organizer? >> because i learned that if you can get people together, and you can put pressure on the

politicians, you know, be it city council, school board members, and get registered people to vote, and get them to vote, that was real power. >> that is the legendary labor and civil rights activist delores puerta hosted by the emmy and tonemy award winner. it's told the untold history of latinos. it looks back at the significant and often overlooked contributions the latino community has made from the as -- aztec empire to the civil rights movement. john leguizamo is here. you do such a good job of shining a light in places op history and the america of today that should be known, but aren't known for whatever reason, that school kids aren't learning about. what did you set out to do with this series. >> john hop kins university did a study that found out that 87%

of latino contributions to the making of the u.s. are not in history textbooks. so i set out to correct that, to make this show a correctiv to put back those 87% of facts because our contributions are massive, man. i found this plethora, this embarrassment of riches, you know. we're the only ethnic group that's fought in every single war america has ever had, the most medal of honors of any other ethnic group after whites, you know, 10,000 unknown latino patriots fought in the american revolution. 20,000 of us fought in the civil war. 120,000 of us fought in world war i with incredible heroes, you know, we were the first to fight against segregation in 1914 in denver. latinos fought against segregation and won, and the youngest boy -- if first youngest boy ever lynched in america was a latino boy in texas in 1911 for disrespecting

a white man. his name was antonio gomez. the first woman lynched in america was a latina. she was defending herself from a white sexual assaulter and she shot him and wouldn't show, you know, sorrow, so they lynched her, and, you know, her name was josephia segovia. there's pressure, about 6,000 of us were lynched, burned alive, shot. we forget that half of the united states used to be mexico from the mississippi all the way to the pacific. there's incredible stories here, and what i learned was that we are the most resilient people on earth, man. i mean, we're the only race, the only culture that has been almost completely genocided, almost completely -- our culture, language was destroyed, and yet we contributed last year, $3.2 trillion to the u.s. gdp.

if we were our own country, we would be the fifth largest nation in the world. >> you know, we saw that clip coming. delores is a name everyone should know. >> she came up with the term, yes, we can. >> right. so can you talk the logistics, and just talk to our audience about the impact she had, and what you learned from that conversation? >> we're constantly left out of the civil rights movement, you know, the black panthers were influenced and they wore the black beret, and we were all influenced by the black panthers. we had the brown berets in california, fighting against, you know, bad schools, vietnam. we were doing the same thing against segregation. we had the young lords of new york city who created the first bill of rights for -- in hospitals, and then delores

organizing. women have been a huge part of our latin movement. in the 1800s, there was our own newspaper, a journalist saved boys from being lynched in the late 1800s. we had a huge movement of women being activists in the latino community. >> after decades, generations, centuries, latinos in the united states of america, latino families born here, raised here, generations of them. >> yeah. >> why do you think in this country too many americans still look at latinos as newly arrived immigrants? >> right. that's the myth that i want to bust because we have always been here. the first european language spoken in america was not english. it was spanish. we have been here since 1492 and before 1492 because we were these great empires, the maya, the aztec, and the inca.

what happened was we were a large population here, and to keep us, you know, out of political power, to steal our land wealth, you have to, you know, erase us. you have to erase our contributions. that's the only way you can take our power away because it's such a massive group of people, is you have to keep our history away from us, and from other people. >> john, this is a sweeping ambitious project. what surprised you the most that you learned over the course of researching and putting this together? >> well, first of all, the massive contributions, i mean, the railroads. the american railroads after our asian brothers and sisters were kicked out, we took over and finished them all the way to the west, and built all the infrastructure in the west and the southwest. that was incredible. this other hero, camalita torres, when latinos were coming here in the early 1900s and working in the texas, arizona,

and southern california, they would make everybody get naked, the men and the women, and separate them. pour cyanide gas on them sometimes, and if they had lice, put gasoline and set them on fire, and the nazis borrowed from these techniques from the u.s. that was, you know -- it's shocking to me. shocking. >> it's eye-opening in this series. it's really spectacular, and people should check out. i want to ask you before you go, because you are very active in politics as well. >> i tried. >> what is your assessment of those 90 minutes of debate in philadelphia the other night? >> oh, man. she crushed. she crushed. she looked presidential. she, you know, people thought maybe she can't deal with foreign policy. she showed you she could. she seemed very presidential, man. i thought she really got under his skin. it was so exciting to see him like, you know, flip out. i love seeing that about him, like, never looking at her,

trying to smile. >> no eye contact. >> no eye contact whatsoever. just stared down. try to remember your points. >> she knew which buttons to push. you do such a great job of using your platform to shine light in places that need light. >> thank you. >> it continues in this new series. it premieres on pbs and online at pbs.org on september 27th. check it out. host, executive producer, john leguizamo, thank you. >> thank you. still ahead, we'll dig into taylor swift's endorsement of kamala harris, and the effect it's having already. we'll play ne comments for you when we're back in two minutes. ♪ you belong with me ♪ cool right? look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right.

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spin room? >> i just felt i wanted to. i was very happy with the result. >> you're looking at the worst paul that we had was '71 that i see. we had a 92% rating in one poll. >> 80-20, i told that to bret baier. >> we had an 86% rating. one poll is 92% to 6%. 92% to 7%. >> speak louder. >> 88% to 11%. all of the polls are 60%, 70%, and 80%. 86% to 3%. >> every single poll last night had me winning, like, 90% to 10%. 71% to, like, 24% or 25%. >> why don't you do a shoutout poll who are they think won the debate last night? it would be great. >> we do the poll at the end, mr. president. >> why don't you do it while i'm on the phone? i'm on the phone now.

>> the polls are indicaing that we've got 90%, 60%, 72%, 71%, and 89%. >> where are you getting these numbers from? >> and there you have it, willie. the race is over. 86% to 3%, he tells one person who responds with, wow. you won 86% to 3%. did you, comrade stalin? all the soviet people must really love you, but no. i mean, that's part of the -- well, that's not part of the problem. i mean, it's the huge problem. he lives in an alternate reality, and his handlers thought that they could somehow manage that going to the debate, and republicans, mainstream republicans that insist on staying with this man, regardless of the craziness, the lunacy, all the losses, you

know, they always thought they could control him, they could manage him. he can't be managed, and he lives in an alternate reality, at least politically. >> yeah. when your debate performance is an unmitigated disaster, not by the account of you and me, but by the account of republicans, by the account of his advisers talking privately new to the press about how bad it was, there has been this fallacy, this fantasy, this charade that if we can just get donald trump to settle in, prepare, and focus on policy, he's going to have a great -- it ain't happening. it's never happened since the day he stepped onto the scene. i don't know why we keep trying to entertain that idea. he is who he is. it was on full display for an hour and a half two nights ago, and he got whipped frankly, and so now you have to go out and just make up polls. joe, by the way, that mash-up we played was from our friends with "all in with chris hayes" just showing the absurdity of

donald trump's spin. it's making up poll numbers and it was three against one up there whining about the debate moderators, the whining because they said for one thing, you can't kill a baby in any state of the union after he or she is born. >> right. >> and no, haitian immigrants are not eating pets in ohio. that's why it was three on one and unfair. >> and again, i mean, anybody that thinks that's why he lost the debate, that he was corrected three times -- but, you know, he got about seven minutes more than he was supposed to because the debate moderators allowed him to keep breaking the rules. every answer she had, they would try to move onto something else. he would blurt something out, crazy stuff for a minute or two minutes, and i said, are you going to enforce your rules or not? i don't know if you remember, but when he came on our show, he didn't talk over us. >> no. >> or we hung up. so i wanted to show -- i wanted

to show jonathan lemire the headline in the "new york times" today. are you ready? >> i'm ready. >> red sox walk it off, jonathan. red sox walk it off. you have a picture here of o'neil trotting around the bases. oh, wait. that's not the headline, but -- >> 84 font there. just screaming headlines. >> it is over. red sox within four. i mean, you know, the way i bring this up with willie and you, it's because we have actually -- and this is all we can have. in september, middle of september, we actually have a yankees/red sox series that means a lot. >> yeah. >> to both teams. >> yeah. no, you're right. both teams had walkoff wins yesterday as you just mentioned. tyler o'neal hit one to the moon, walking off, and doing the yankees a favor, and the yankees had a walkoff win against the

royals on a ball that missed -- an errant throw to home plate after the yankees had rallied there. >> right. >> we've got a series that matters now. the sox left four out of the wild card. they might need a sweep in the bronx to really get there. at least two out of three. that's a tall order, but it's middle of september. these games matter. it'll be fine. >> just what they need is the twins coming up after the yankees. then sweeped the twins, and you actually have a shot there. so it's -- yeah. going to be exciting. the tigers coming out of nowhere. >> the tigers. >> out of nowhere. >> wow. >> lions and tigers, not the bears, oh my. willie, really quickly, and then i'll let you get to what you probably -- if i had shut up five minutes ago, you could have gotten it in. it really sums it up. i was talking about campaigns. they need to do bumper stickers. the headline today for trump,

the u.s. is failing. to harris, there's hope. i mean, that's the campaign wrapped up in the headline, and a very accurate headline. trump would say that, that america's failing, and he does say it all the time, and kamala harris would say, there's hope. there's hope. best days could be ahead. so i think it's fascinating, if you want to know what this campaign's about, right there. right there. right there, whichever camera. that one right there. that's what it's about, willie, and that's what we'll be talking about today along with the trump right melting down about debate moderators, some saying they should be jailed which tells you where we are in 2024 on the trump right, but they're talking about jailing moderators in the debate that donald trump had about six or seven more minutes to talk, and you talk about pathetic excuses, and also taylor swift, elon musk, travis

kelce. >> ugh. >> it's -- ugh. now to you, willie geist. >> oh my gosh. we'll get into all that, and that headline you held up, joe, that was the takeaway for a lot of people. a huge audience by the way. we'll get into some of those numbers, but a big audience watching across the number of networks, but that theme of her saying, we're not going back to this. looking forward, joy instead of yesterday and american carnage. as long as we're holding up newspapers, joe, "the wall street journal," look at that top line. inflation slows to 3-year low. that data we talked about that came in yesterday. that's great news for americans trying to buy groceries and other things in the country. it was on course with the campaign. around the table this morning, msnbc political analyst, elise jordan, former aide from the george w. bush white house and state department.

ed luce, msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes. good morning to you all. so trump debate performance frustrates republicans. that is a headline from "the wall street journal" following his debate on tuesday with vice president kamala harris. "the journal" states, gop lawmakers and others fretted that trump had missed chances to challenge harris on her record, and instead, let his own controversies become the bigger story as harris' needling got under his skin. republican senator lindsey graham of south carolina, of course, a staunch ally of donald trump, called the debate a missed opportunity, and republican senator kevin cramer of north dakota said, quote, he treated it like a mini-rally in a lot of respects. you've got to be talking to those swing voters in swing states. he could do that better with details. we're also getting new reaction from inside the trump camp. one adviser telling nbc news, quote, it was not his best

performance, without question. that's from inside the trump camp. a longtime republican operative said, i know everyone in the world has said this, but the inability for unwillingness to realize he's not falling for it is constantly baffling. robert f. kennedy jr. of course, recently suspended his presidential campaign to endorse donald trump. he criticized trump's debate performance. >> vice president harris clearly won the debate in terms of her delivery, her polish, her organization, and her preparation. i think president trump wins in terms of his governance, but he didn't tell that story. >> this is from a guy, john, with an affinity for eating animals that he hits on the side of the road. >> yeah. >> tough criticism. >> that issue, yeah. >> he had decimated it, you

know? >> the issue really resonating there with rfk jr. for sure. there has been widespread consternation from inside the trump camp and other republicans who saw that he -- who said -- claimed that trump was prepared, that he was going to go in there and really hammer home the economy and immigration, and he did try a couple of times to shoehorn immigration answers into questions, but then he was derailed by talking like eating dogs and eating cats in ohio to the point yesterday, where the city manager of that town had to come out and hold a news conference. a man named brian heck who i'm sure two weeks ago did not have this on his bingo card, had to have a news conference and say, that didn't happen, and then the republican governor of that state, governor dewine also said, that's not true. that's not happening here. it has not dissuaded trump who pushed it yesterday, and he said, they should take away abc's broadcast license because of perceived bias. their concern is twofold.

they know that harris, still unknown to a lot of american, came out of there looking good. she was able to show -- she passed the commander in chief test, but secondly, trump's craziness was on full display, and she was able to bait him several times into looking unhinged and to getting angry, into reminding americans why they got tired of him in the first place, and that, i think, joe, is something that a lot -- those in trump's close advisers including someone i spoke to yesterday afternoon who said, like, you know, they go back and forth as to whether they'll debate with her again, they feel like they gave her a real assist, and trump formed a real impression of people's minds, who are reminded -- who may have had trump amnesia, like, oh, maybe things weren't that bad. maybe we like his economy, whatever it might be, and then they look at that and go, ugh. we don't want to do that again. >> no. i mean, 60 million viewers saw

that side of donald trump. i mean, 60 million -- the only two tv shows in america that people watch more of, the super bowl, and "way too early with jonathan lemire." you know what that pressure is like, but willie, you know, i think everybody was focused, including republicans, on how badly that donald trump did, that they didn't focus on how well kamala harris did, and it was really brought home last night. i was scrolling through the news, and i saw a couple of, like, watch parties, people watching harris, and her pausing at certain points, which of course, you're watching it and you're, like, you're watching it in your own home, and you don't get how everybody's reacting, but people were laughing at her, the pauses, cheering.

she really, after starting the first couple of minutes, a bit nervous, she really commanded it. bob shrum, who has worked on presidential campaigns, and mark mckinnon, a republican, who's worked on george w. bush's campaigns and mccain's campaigns both said the same thing, that this -- they believed was the best debate performance they have seen since jfk's in 1960. so that is their opinion, and i think it's important, when we think about how this debate is going to impact people, we take note of the fact that donald trump lost, but at the same time in equal measures, kamala harris won, and by doing so, with a massive tv audience, she did clear that hurdle. >> yep. >> she proved she's not what the trump right has been calling her for the last four years.

>> it was a huge test for her because if you think about the dnc in chicago, she had -- there was a great convention, but that's a pep rally. that's a home game, and she looked great in that. >> right. >> the party was unified there, but now she steps boot arena with the opponent. she's in the boxing ring. this isn't sparring anymore. it was real, and you make a great point because donald trump's atrocious, historically terrible performance overshadows in some ways, the ways in which she instigated his performance, in which she provoked him and got him to go to his darkest places and then was just able to sit in a split screen, and the sub text was, do you want this again, america? rational, sane people who just want to live your lives and have a strong economy and take care of your families, do you want to live through this for another four, five years? and then she would turn and say, he wants to talk about himself. i want to talk about you, which i think is the message she wanted to drive home. so charlie sykes, as you watched a couple of nights ago, we heard from many pollsters, people like

frank luntz, and then trump launched into insane things like eating dogs and inconsistencies he can't explain away like on the issue of abortion. what did you see as you watched with your trained eye a couple of nights ago? >> a lot of what we saw with donald trump, you know, the bitterness, the angry, is familiar with those who watched donald trump over the last eight years, right? this may have come as a revelation or a reminder to tens of millions of people who were tuning in and go, oh my gosh. who is this angry old man yelling at the clouds here? and as you point out, kamala harris is an unknown factor for many, many, many voters, and she put on a really extraordinary performance. not just discipline. i mean, look. she also won that split screen in a rather dramatic fashion.

>> oh yeah. >> i think that's a little bit underappreciated, but a couple of things here, and i think you have this at the top of the show. donald trump -- and i mean there's a warning here too. the donald trump as we know, lives in a bubble of delusion, but also what we demonstrated was republicans refused to take the "l." they refused to acknowledge that he refuses to acknowledge he's lost, and also, they remain addicted to these fake internet memes, even after they have been debunked. they will not let go of the big lie, and i think that this is going to be -- this is not a new pattern for those of us who have followed this, but think of this in the context of the election and the big lie. donald trump is creating an alternative reality where he never admits that he loses, and no matter how egregious the lie is, no matter how much it has been refuted, they will stick with it, and i think that's kind

of extraordinary. how deeply online they've gotten, and how even, you know, and by the way, talk about blatantly racist, you know, the imagery of donald trump saving kittens in america from angry black men, but they're not letting it go, and they won't let these things go, and i think this is, again, a marker and a warning for our time. >> you know, willie, there is a parallel. it's not a strong -- a really strong parallel, because nothing compared to donald trump, but you remember when we were covering the 2012 election. mitt romney, his campaign, his family lived inside that fox news bubble, and you'll remember on the front page of "drudge" every day was romney plus 11 because the gallup polls were so wildly off, and you'll remember that night, and i'm just -- this bubble that they live in, where

people are going oh my god. they're saying -- this bubble leads to disaster most times, and you'll remember that night. mitt romney and ann romney, two people i love, they -- late into the evening, they were sure that there was something that was wrong with the numbers because it went against everything that was in that bubble in 2012, that republicans lived in. even pre-trump, and you'll remember carl rove saying, something's wrong with these numbers, like, even late into the night, nobody could believe it because they had all been living in a bubble, and i'm sorry, but i just got to say it. this is what's happened every year since 2017. they live in a bubble, they convince themselves that by saying illegal immigrants are coming to america with leprosy, that caravans are coming to eat

their children, you know, they think that by saying the most radical, wild things -- that was an exaggeration, that somehow they're going to sway the middle. they never do. it doesn't work. it worked for one day in november nine years ago, and when donald trump admitted afterwards to me that the election could have been held on ten days, and he may have only won it on that one day, and they have tanked their entire party, destroyed the conservative movement based on that one day, because a letter was written ten days before that literally changed the outcome of the election. >> yeah, and you're talking about a 2012 fox news bubble which i mean, compare that to what the bubble looks like today which is -- >> right. >> -- the farthest reaches of the internet, the darkest conspiracy theories you can think of, amplified and pushed

to the top of a presidential campaign, which gets you a debate like we had two nights ago, elise, where as we were saying yesterday, that was rally donald trump where the curated audience at the rally knows all the lines to the songs. they know about the cat-eating thing in springfield, and they cheer when they hear that, but there are 67 million people that watched the other night. that's a lot of people who don't know about the cat-eating conspiracy theory online or anything else donald trump is talking about going, i want to know which of these people is going to take care of my family and protect my rights. what on earth is this man talking about? >> then when donald trump makes such a crazy comment, it just pops, and it becomes the pull quote of the night establishing just how crazy he is, and reminding voters, oh, this guy, he's not really all there, and also going back to the age issue. when, you know, he seemed a little slower.

he had plenty of facts wrong, you know, mixing up west virginia and virginia, and then you contrast that to kamala harris, and she came across as likable. at the end of the day, she came across as likable, and donald trump wasn't able to define her and paint her as an extreme liberal, and that's what he needed to do. instead, voters got to see a woman who was collected. she was in command. he was strong. she looked good, and she wasn't taking anything from this man ranting at her. coming up, it was a strong debate for vice president kamala harris, but ed luce is reminding leaders donald trump could easily win this election coming from behind in the polls. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." the polls that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

you know, ed luce, in your latest ft column, you talk about how triumphant kamala harris was at her convention, but said there were still fears. there were still lingering doubts about how she would do against donald trump. let me read from your column. you say, if there were doubts that harris could stand up to trump, they were dispelled in the first encounter. it may be their last. the fact she ended tuesday night's debate by calling for

another, speaks volumes, and i love the subhead of this because you get to really the essence of all of this, and why it's so important. kamala harris had -- actually kamala harris has the measure of donald trump. it's actually the headline, and she's the first, ed. think about those 16 republicans in 2016, how lost and confused they were debating donald trump. think about hillary clinton. when trump came over and stood behind -- instead of george bush turning to al gore in 2000 and going, like, what's wrong with you, man? and everybody laughing at al gore, hillary just sat there and didn't know quite how to react to it and she's talked about that a good bit, but he's always intimidated, blustered, always broke rules at town hall meetings, et cetera, but the headline says id all. kamala harris has the measure of

donald trump, which means he wants no part of her in a second debate, and if he's stupid enough to debate her a second time, we know how it's going to end. >> of course, as we know, joe, he doesn't want to debate her because he's already won, and she's desperate because she lost so badly to debate again. it's an extraordinary line that trump has stuck to since then, but she has the measure of him. you remember back to tuesday night, i think the moment where it really started to unravel for trump was when she talked about his crowd sizes and invited people to watch them. a unique thing in presidential debates to watch their opponents' rallies and watch how people leave during the rally, and yawn and get bored, and that, i think, was where trump's head started to be really messed with, and he never got it back because kamala harris had really done her research on him.

his foundational myth really of his presidency, was the size of his inauguration crowd in 2017. something that, you know, he said on day one, a direct lie was far bigger than the one that obama had had, and so this has been a sort of -- it's his gateway myth, you know, what once you sort of go through the i've got the largest crowds in history, then all the other myths flow from that. so she had the measure of him. she went back to the central park five, you know, an issue that, you know, dates back more than 40 years where he takes out an ad calling for the execution of what turned out to be innocent people. he doubles down on the central park five. she managed to nail him on a potentially weak issue, which was biden's withdrawal from afghanistan, by pointing out that this was his plan, and getting him to say that bizarre to me still, is a rich choice,

bizarrest bit in a whole debate, where he describes the leader of the taliban as guy called abdul. it's a nonexistent person. he's chosen the one muslim name he can remember. i don't remember the taliban saying, that guy, john who leads the west, or is it billy? that's -- that's the kind of wacky direction she acceptability his head in because she had prepared so well. she knew exactly what would trigger him. it did. she kept doing it, and i bet she would relish another debate. >> yeah, ed. certainly to your point, she's well prepared. she had a dig about the wharton business school, and she cited professors there criticizing his plan, and they sort of tip their hand about the crowd size thing because i should note earlier that day, they ran an ad featuring barack obama and his dnc speech where he memorably

poked fun at his crowd side with a hand gesture, and that ad ran in philadelphia and west palm beach where trump might see it that day. they showed that punch was coming and he still couldn't react. i want to go to this ecosystem, this right-wing fever swamp where he lives. a conservative commentate who are we quote every so often on this show, he in a rage, on twitter this other night said, look what you've done, yelling at trump's aides saying, you're showing him this stuff. you're allowing him to believe this stuff, and all it's doing is alienaing the actual voters he needs to win, who not only don't know what he's talking about, but makes him look crazy. in response, a 9/11 truther joined trump yesterday on his flight to new york for the ground zero september 11th

commemoration. -- laura loomer. we can mention other names or others like steven miller, but laura loomer is someone who tweeted something so racist, so nasty about kamala harris, that the white house smelling of curry, that even marjorie taylor greene asked her to take it down. now if you -- if you offend marjorie taylor greene, i didn't think that was possible, and marjorie taylor greene thinks you've gone too far, then that -- that says something, and this is the kind of person donald trump is hanging out with. he's hanging out with people who tell him, yes. what you've just said about crowd sizes the true. yes, what you've said about you having the greatest economy in world history is true.

what we have been hearing about people hanging other people's pet dogs or abducting their cats, that's true. he's hanging out with people who say, yes back to him, and i doubt frankly, that chris lacivita or suzie wiles worked on many different republican campaigns are being listened to very much at all by donald trump, and the more we see of that, a bit like the debate the other night, the more rope he is given to hang himself, the more he will hang himself. >> charlie, the women that ed and john are mentioning here is a reprehensible racist. she calls herself a proud islamaphobe, and the tweet which we won't read, because it's so deeply ugly gets at kamala harris' heritage, her identity, the fact that she's half indian. we'll leave it there. it gets into all the ugliest

possible stereotypes about that, but this is not a casual relationship. >> no. >> this woman is flying on the plane to the debate with donald trump, which you also point out the vice president jd vance is cozying up to people and making excuses for someone entertaining the idea that actually churchill was the villain of world war ii and not adolf hitler. these are choices. this is not a retweet of somebody. this is not accepting an endorsement and pretending you don't know the person. this is elevating these people. >> and it is extraordinary. laura loomer is not just a bigot. i mean, she is a freak. she is at the far edges of the fever swamp, you know, as ed just mentioned. even marjorie taylor greene, describes her as racist and offensive, and yet donald trump is associating with her. these are the kinds of people who have his ear right now. so at this moment of the campaign, i mean, think about this.

we're less than two months away from the election. donald trump is associating with some of the craziest, weirdest figures on the right, you know, and in part i, you know, this is kind of the jd vance effect. you know, jd vance and donald trump jr. who have decided that they wanted donald trump to be extremely online, and you saw that play out during the debate, but you're also seeing it play out, you know, throughout this campaign, and all of the rallies. in donald trump's head, you have people with the most extreme and bigoted ideas who are feeding him lines and memes and encouraging him to go places that no politician in our century and, you know, maybe for the last century and a half, have even fought to go, and i think this is concerning in terms of this bubble of delusion that he's created himself. this bubble of extremism and delusion that he's going to carry up until the election, and

past the election. >> charlie sykes, thanks very much. editor of "the financial times," ed luce. we'll see you soon. we'll take a look at how the harris-walz ticket is looking to run on momentum. and how speaker mike johnson cancels a vote on a funding bill and growing republican infighting. we'll get the latest. and you hear the music. here's why. an unbelievable story. jon bon jovi, the music legend, being hailed as a hero this morning. possibly saving a woman's life, talking her off a bridge in nashville. it's an incredible story. "morning joe" is coming right back. >> woman: why did we choose safelite? we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. >> vo: schedule free mobile service at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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♪♪ taylor swift's endorsement

of vice president kamala harris may boost voter registration for democrats, according to the general services administration. swift's instagram post drove at least 337,000 users to visit vote.gov, a site that helps people to register to vote in their states. donald trump and his running mate, senator jd vance of ohio reacting now to the news of swift's endorsement of their opponent, vice president harris. >> i was not a taylor swift fan. it was just a question of time. she couldn't -- you couldn't possibly endorse biden. you look at biden. you couldn't possibly endorse him, but she's a very liberal person. she seems to always endorse a democrat, and she'll probably pay a price for it at the -- in the marketplace. >> well, look. we admire taylor swift's music, but i don't think most americans whether they like her music, or fans of hers or not, will be influenced by a billionaire

celebrity who's disconnected from interests and the problems to most americans. >> this is too easy. this is t-ball. walks right into it and says, a billionaire who is disconnected from the lives of everyday y americans. >> come on, man. >> come on now. >> i mean, is -- you know, i don't think many people are going to be influenced by billionaire celebrity who i think is disconnected from the interests and the problems of most americans. it really -- elise, it is too easy. i will say, you know, i've never, you know, i grew up listening to musicians who never supported people i supported and voted for as a conservative, and it's, like, whatever, you know? i don't expect -- i didn't expect the beatles to play at barry goldwater's convention in 1964, like -- so oh, they're

liberal. whatever. i listen to music. most people do listen to music, and usually musicians' endorsements don't mean anything. i will say if there is one that makes a difference, it would be taylor swift, and it would be taylor swift because she has such an extraordinary following, a deep following with people of all ages, and i actually do think if she, you know, her getting them out to vote, we're starting to see the registration numbers go up, you know, on the margins, every little bit helps. when you need, you know, when you may win by 50,000 votes in michigan or 30,000 votes in wisconsin, or, you know, 15,000 votes in pennsylvania where i think taylor swift's from, every little bit counts, and this may be more than just a little bit. >> joe, i find it fascinating because she is just such a cultural icon, and i mean, has

fueled so many economies around the world by just merit of tour touring there, and it's funny to think that trump will hurt her business because her business is doing just fine. who can afford to even go to her concerts because she's so in-demand, but with the lincoln democracy institute, i did focus groups that used a video of taylor swift talking about politics with her dad, and debating getting involved in speaking out in the tennessee senate election, and it was interesting as a way to explore how women talk to the men in their lives, and women are so connected under the age of 20 especially, to taylor swift, and they relate to her, and she's having fun, and he's a good role model. you see as her concerts, it's all about going and being kind to each other, and having fun, and that kind of, you know, echoes what kamala harris is doing. she is having fun.

she's way more likable than, you know, a lot of candidates we have had in the past. coming up, republicans tanked a border security bill after donald trump put his finger on the scale to put it mildly. will they do the same thing with government funding? nbc's ali vitali joins us next on "morning joe." vitali joins ut on "morning joe.

♪♪ in washington, house speaker mike johnson pulled a government funding bill off of the house floor just hours before a scheduled vote yesterday. the move came as several house republicans vowed to tank it. congress has about two weeks to

pass government funding to avoid a shutdown. let's bring in abc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. what happened here? >> as hard as it was for me to listen to you guys talk about taylor swift as a swiftie. >> jump in and start there. >> that's the kind of pain that mike johnson is in right now with his own conference. i have to tell you because he is once again in a position of being squeezed by members of his own party, who don't like the plan that he put forward on a six-month extension of government funding, that is also then paired with the save act which would prevent non-citizens from voting which as we've said here and on other shows before, is already illegal. nevertheless, that's the plan he put forward. that's the plan that locked the votes, and my understanding heading into yesterday, and leadership knew this. they knew they had a vote margin of, like, 15 to 20 republicans who were not going to get on board with this. there was a chance that they were going to just put it on the

floor. that's embarrassing to leadership, not the way they've done things in congress like nancy pelosi who infamously always knew where her vote count was. from mccarthy and now johnson, they've seen things fail on the floor before. they have received that embarrassment. yesterday they wanted to avoid that, but without a change of plan, they're going to keep running against that brick wall, and that's where it becomes a short-term problem for johnson on government funding, but also a longer term problem for johnson who, if republicans retain the majority, would like to keep his speakership, and if they don't, he's also going to be a battle to keep his place as the top republican, in that case, as minority leader. all of that's a thorny issue anyway, but this is something that has both short-term implications and longer term implications for that is athorn anyway. then, of course, that's nothing to say of the donald trump of it all, who has said he, i think, would shut down the government in a heartbeat, i think is the

phrase that he used, to keep the save act in there and do government funding in this fashion. it makes it very difficult, once again, for the speaker. the senate realities are they don't want to do it this way anyway. we're at a stalemate, 19 days until funding time. they try to find some kind of fashion to fund the government and not shut down the government before the election. most republicans are aware that doesn't behoove them. nonetheless, donald trump is saying he's fine with it. next, jon bon jovi stepping up to help a woman in distress, probably saving her life. those details next on "morning joe." ♪♪ ression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant

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rock 'n roll icon jon bon jovi is being hailed as a hero this morning for helping a woman in distress on a bridge in nashville. extraordinary pictures here lower left of your screen. it happened on tuesday. police releasing a surveillance video of bon jovi talking a woman off the ledge of that bridge in nashville. you can see him walking over to her. after about a minute, he and his team helped a woman back onto the pedestrian walkway. bon jovi gave her a hug. a representative for the singer has not responded to request for comment, but that is jon bon jovi and they were grateful to him and his team member there for coaxing, i think, the woman off the bridge. mark kelly and the latest in

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trump said the debate was rigged and that abc should be shut down for fact checking him, but that he still thought he did great. then abc fact checked him again and said, you did not. the craziest moment was when trump pushed a baseless conspiracy theory. >> they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. they're eating the cats. they're eating the pets of the people that live there. [ laughter ] >> looks like operation "i'm not weird" isn't going well. i mean, what? >> welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and 9:00 a.m. in the east.

vice president kamala harris and former president donald trump are headed back out on the campaign today, each holding their first major event since tuesday night's debate. peter alexander has the latest. >> reporter: vice president harris and former president trump returning to the trail today, traveling to critical battleground states on opposite ends of the country. for harris, north carolina, trump stumping in arizona. after their contentious debate, the pair putting differences aside to come together at the memorial marking the 23rd anniversary of september 11th. but it comes as trump is facing controversy over connections to conspiracy theories, traveling with him recently laura loomer, a conspiracy theorist who insisted 9/11 was an inside job. earlier this week loomer sharing a racist post about kamala harris saying if harris wins, the white house will smell like curry among other things.

the white house did not address loomer, saying his participation in the 9/11 ceremony was not about anyone other than the souls who are no longer with us. the republican governor of ohio, a trump ally, is pushing back on baseless conspiracy theories amplified in the debate about immigrants. >> they're eating the pets. >> reporter: governor mike dewine saying he trusts city officials. >> they have no evidence of that at all. >> reporter: urging trump to stay focused on the economy and protecting the border. >> i think the more he can stick to those issues, the better off he is going to be as he goes forward. >> reporter: following the face-off, the harris campaign is calling for another debate. but trump, who previously insisted on multiple debates, is now noncommittal. >> you know, when you win, you don't necessarily have to do it a second time. >> reporter: harris capitalizing on her own strong debate

performance. >> there's got to be somebody that genuinely cares about us and has real policies and real ideas that are realistic. >> nbc's peter alexander reporting for us there. joining us now, jen psaki and ari melber. jonathan lemire with us, of course, as well. before we go around the table, john, we should pause talking about the woman that donald trump brought with him, a 9/11 conspiracy theorist to a 9/11 event and then the appalling tweet. i would love to know what jd vance thinks about that tweet, given the fact that his wife is indian american. >> wildly racist, represent henceably racist. this is who laura loomer is. she is a proud anti-islam. she formed an isis sympathizer

group in college, hoping to get liberals to join her, thinking that would discredit them. no one did. she's the one who got expelled. and the fact that donald trump, someone who is from new york, someone who has said he knows people who died that day, though, of course, he's also promoted his own september 11th conspiracy theories, suggesting without evidence that there were muslims in jersey city celebrating that day. we know that's not true either. this one, he traffics in a lot of conspiracy theories, but this one, particularly for those of us who were here that day and know people who were affected, it's particularly appalling, but also on a larger level shows where he is right now. it's the same people he surrounded himself with that leads him on a national debate stage to say things like they're eating the pets, which is not helping him with undecideds.

>> how often is this person flying around with donald trump, who went to the 9/11 event with him. marjorie taylor greene tweeted last night and again this morning condemning laura loomer and everything she stands for. >> when you've gone too far for marjorie taylor greene. >> advisors to donald trump are telling him that she won. she outperformed him pretty clearly. so what happens from here now? taking the enthusiasm from the dnc, taking the good performance at the debate, as kamala harris said yesterday, those are nice moments, but there's still a lot of work to do. >> just ask john kerry and hillary clinton. winning debates doesn't mean you win the election. if you're in the harris campaign, you're very mindful of that. anyone watching objectively would not have thought donald trump did anything for himself in that debate.

she outperformed most people's expectation. she had some good moments that the campaign can use on abortion, on when she went after him kind of on how dictators love him. those are moments you can use in ads and online. that's good for them. she still is not where biden was among black voters, among latino voters, among key constituency groups. they have to keep people motivated. they have to keep the fire going under them. just because she won the debate, she's still, you know, behind, i would say in the head to head in most of these states. it's very close, she's ahead, but they still have a lot of work to do. they know that, and they know they need to keep people motivated. >> ari, you, you, you, of

course, see what's going on. just to follow up on what jen said, you know, ronald reagan had a horrible debate, of course, in 1984 against walter mondale, republicans quietly saying that he had lost it. george w. bush in 2004, his first debate with john kerry, he'd ask for extra time and then just go, it's hard, it's hard. and then, of course -- [ laughter ] >> miss that guy. in 2012, barack obama just had an awful debate, and yet, you know, to what end? he still easily beat mitt romney. so i guess the harris campaign understands as well -- as good as things went the other night, this race is far from over. in fact, it's probably still tied. >> the state polling we have shows ties within the margin of

error in all the key blue wall states. we have this tradition, sort of a modern tv tradition back to kennedy. it matters. the biden debate upended the whole race, but it's not determinative. on tiktok people have been resurfacing the old debates, and they look so much calmer and more respectful now by comparison to what trump has done in sort of lowering the bar. our colleagues here mentioning him bringing laura loomer to a 9/11 memorial event. there's an old country song that my dad actually loved. the line is, from the gutter to you ain't up." and you've got people below the gutter in respecting the service, the deaths, the realities of what we've been through, and then trump at the debate obviously shows these problems.

the other thing i was thinking about, joe, you know, we make time on "the beat" as many shows do at msnbc to make sure we're getting the facts and also check fact and go to the source. i've had corey lewandowski on my show, stephen miller. they're part of that ltbt crowd, joe, let trump be trump. he loves that. when it's tight, which the race you just said is, there's a lot of other republicans who think that's the last mode they need right now. >> yeah. i want to -- there's a lot of talk out there, jen, on the trump right that, oh, the media is biased, and trump's running around talking about how he won the debate 86-3 or 92-3% and certain hosts on fox news going, wow, oh, that's great, donald. i want to very quickly just -- you had the "wall street

journal" editorial page just lay trump out yesterday. today daniel henninger, a mainstay of that conservative editorial page as well as karl rove both just excoriate donald trump. henninger just said he was in incapable, trump was incapable of explaining his positions. let me just read you karl rove. there's no putting lipstick on this pig. mr. trump was crushed by a woman he previously dismissed as, quote, dumb as a rock, which raises the question, what does that make him? >> well, there you go. couldn't have said it better. >> karl rove's words, not mine. >> i was going to say i couldn't have said it better than karl rove, something i wouldn't have thought myself ever capable of saying. the lbtb crowd, let trump be

trump, trump is not a policy wonk, he's not disciplined. there are people on his campaign -- not that crew -- who are running campaign ads, many racist and xenophobic. they are disciplined in a dark way. he's not disciplined even in a way that that dark group would like him to be. you're watching him go back to the same exact playbook. bringing laura loomer along with him, being a conspiracy theorist, even the springfield, ohio, attacks on eating dogs, which is, yes, funny and bizarre, but it also has the same strategy. what he's trying to do is make immigrants, anyone who is a person of color, black, brown, anything other than a white conservative be scary. that's his objective. so it's the same playbook for him. i think the key is that's not enough to win more votes, and he

needs more votes to win the election. >> he did nothing to broaden the coalition with that performance the other night. let's bring in john heilemann. good to see you, man. what's the vibe you're picking up from inside the trump campaign? we're seeing this reporting, private, anonymous sources saying he was terrible the other night, this was the worst we've seen him, his performance was bad. we're hearing hosts on fox news saying there's no way to spin this, he was terrible. the "wall street journal" saying the same thing. is there anyone around him at this point who can say, hey, man, if the idea is to win a general election, what you did the other night is not helping. in fact, it's hurting your chances to win the election. >> the two people who can say that and have said that are hanging by a thread with their jobs right now -- [ indiscernible ] when he came out on the spin room, you saw a bunch of his

surrogates come out who looked like they had had their pets eaten by the mythological, totally racist trope around these ohio haitian immigrants stephen miller and matt gaetz and the great debate prepper tulsi gabbard. who was not out there in the spin room, suzy wilds and chris os vita. he has tried to own the spin room in the past, but the hourlong gap was crucial, because he had and watched coverage for an hour. the word from backstage in the aftermath of that was the vibes between him and lacivita and

wilds was not positive. how many people around this table think donald trump is blaming himself for his poor debate performance? >> zero. >> zero. donald trump is looking for someone to blame. when one or both of those people is fired, it's a miracle we made it through the summer without firing his campaign manager. when one of them goes -- and i would bet dollars to donuts that one of them will be out of this campaign within the next couple weeks -- it will be because trump blames them for having made him do the debate with biden in june, which he now thinks was a huge mistake, because if he'd done it after the convention, we would have been able to have his opponent joe biden, which he thinks he would have beaten easily. and he thinks why did we give it to them?

he blames that on his staff. the professionals. >> you're naming people who if you're really into it, you know these folks, but they're not as famous as some of the other trump figures, but they are the current management. >> they are the ones who people gave a lot of praise for running a more professionalized campaign in that period that trump's campaign was not secure after the 2022 midterms. a lot of people were saying desantis, desantis, trump's got to go away. those two people stuck with trump and helped him get himself the nomination. >> i'm curious where you think this is going. this is a little inside baseball, but people watch "morning joe" to learn baseball. what you think the play is here because lewandowski was brought back on and says publicly that's not a reflection of the current staffing, but it seems like a

reverse '16 where you're bringing back what willie geist famously coined as the ltbt. >> i can't take that from you, ari. >> let trump be trump. we had a change-up that went to a harder, alt-right perspective. it worked then for the electoral college. here it would seem that going super trump isn't what he needs do in these last eight weeks. >> you're forgetting that 2020 has passed. >> i did forget that 2020 passed. thank you. >> it's changed on trump's psyche. donald trump still believes he won the 2020 election. the other day donald trump said that if jesus christ came back and did the vote count, he would have won california in 2020. that's how far gone he is. >> didn't have jesus for the

hanging chads. >> that's true. jesus in florida, just imagine what that would have been like back in 2000. i think he has gone over to the other side. if you believe he won in 2016 and 2020, the election was stolen from you, the notion that the will of whatever, the will of the people, the will of maga, the will of god, whatever, is on your side. trump is not a complex thinker. he's a mollusk. right didn't work, we go left. center didn't work, we go upside down. corey is telling him exactly what he wants to hear. i'll say it about the vibes backstage where the vibes were not that great, a lot of nervousness, a lot of glowering among them. corey is ruling the roost back there. his saying let trump be trump, he's letting trump hear what he wants to hear. trump is not a grudge holder.

he is like bill clinton. if you suck up to him enough, you can betray him for months, weeks, years, whatever. but if you come back and kiss the ring, he will let you back in. corey understands that the way to stay inside is just to tell donald trump, sir, with tears in his eyes, sir, these guys have steered you wrong. i understand you do what you want to do. that's what trump wants to hear. >> trump also has this real nostalgia for the 2016 campaign, the original crew. he always gives them the benefit of the doubt. steve bannon's been excommunicated like six different times. >> if he weren't in jail right now, he'd be back too. >> jen psaki, let's talk a little bit, though, about the trump campaign. you obviously know a lot about being on the inside of these operations. >> not quite like this one.

>> not that operation. but in name only, some similarities. we talk about all this let trump be trump, but let's remember the only time donald trump won a general election was in the last two weeks he doesn't donald trump, the one time in his entire political career where he was disciplined, where he shut up, where he let steve bannon and kellyanne conway say, no, stick to the speech, stay off twitter, you can win. and a lot of things went his way. we can talk about fbi director comey another time. and he did win. the issue is when trump is left to his instincts, that might help him in a republican primary. we have yet to see it would in a general election. >> no question. there's this revisionist nostalgia that is clearly going on in trump's mind. he won in 2016. in his mind, what did he do in 2016? he did a lot of this fear

mongering xenophobic scaring people around the country. yes, there were messages of slight discipline. i might quibble with that a little bit, just because the bar is so low, which he can also benefit from. if you're trump, you're thinking i know how to win, i appeal to my base, i get my base engaged. they look at the data. they know what the path to 270 is. so his going back to nostalgia and really focusing on the base is not going to expand it to the degree he needs in order to win. at the same time, if you're him, you also look at this and the race is essentially tied. these swing states, it's tied, it's within the margin of error. and he may still convince himself in his mind, i won in 2016, i won in 2020, i can keep doing this playbook and i may

win. his lack of discipline means there's space and room for harris to grow and expand her support and defeat him in november. >> oh my gosh, so true. willie, it's just absolutely fascinating discussion, really doubly fascinating, because john heilemann just said that donald trump was a mollusk, which is interesting, because that's what most of my law professors accused me of being throughout my time at university of florida. so i hadn't heard that in a while. >> it's kind of more like a lobster than a mollusk. if you're going shellfish, i'm thinking more lobster than mollusk. >> lobster is the fanciest shellfish. >> not one that pinches. >> where do we go from here? >> hanging chads, the nature of mollusks. it's been quite a first segment

here. coining ltbt. >> let trump be trump. it's relevant. i always love being here. i will plug tomorrow night on "the beat," ll cool j. >> come on! >> yeah. mama said knock you out at the debate. >> that's very nice. that's my original guy right there. bigger and deffer, changed my life. >> we'll be watching "the beat" at 6:00 eastern right here on miss nbc. coming up, the latest set of economic indicators came out just moments ago. andrew ross sorkin breaks down the data and how it could help determine the size of next week's widely expected rate cut from the fed. plus, justin theroux joins us live in the studio to discuss his role in the latest mega hit

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humana. a more human way to healthcare. he told us who he was. should abortion be punished? there has to be some form of punishment. then he showed us. for 54 years, they were trying to get roe v wade terminated. and i did it. and i'm proud to have done it. now, donald trump wants to go further with plans to restrict birth control, ban abortion nationwide, even monitor women's pregnancies. we know who donald trump is. he'll take control. we'll pay the price. i'm kamala harris, and i approved this message. why choose a mobile network built

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♪ going back to cali ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." the latest economic data released moments ago shows the august producer price index increased by 0.2% in line with expectations. meanwhile, the number of americans filing new applications for unemployment benefits increased marginally last week. let's bring in the coanchor of cnbc's "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin to break it all down for us. what does it mean? >> i think it's a glide path for what we're expecting from the fed in september. we are in september, september 18th, which is next week, in terms of what they're ultimately going to do. i think it's basically what we said. the inflation piece has come

down. that's part of the plan. you don't want inflation to come down too far. you want inflation to come down, but if it slows down the economy too much, that becomes the unemployment or the employment issue. that's really where the fed is going to be focusing. i wouldn't take too much away from this number, but i think between ppi and we heard yesterday about the consumer price index, you are seeing inflation become less of an issue. that raises other questions about the jobs issue. that's really where we're at between now and november. but this is going to be the beginning of a big rate cut cycle starting next week. that's probably the bigger thing to take away, the federal reserve is going to start cutting and likely is going to be cutting every month or every other month between now and the next 12 months, which means interest rates are likely to come down. >> yeah. andrew, i was going to show you a headline, but i just was told you guys talked to jd vance this

morning on "squawk box" where he was asked to expand on donald trump's economic policies. >> this is an important distinction between kamala harris' economic policies and donald trump's economic policies. donald trump believes the path to prosperity is to invest in the country, invest in the workers and build out the great merge middle class. kamala harris wants to import cheap labor and offshore manufacturing to cheaper labor overseas. that is not the past to prosperity. we've tried it for 40 years, and it's been a failure. >> donald trump wants to hurt working class voters with his tariff tax. i can say that, andrew. you don't have to. what else did jd vance say on "squawk box"? >> we got into the issue of tariffs. there is an argument to be made

that some tariffs can actually create investment in the united states and can assist in terms of creating manufacturing. by the way, that takes time. the issue in this case is that trump is supporting a broad-based tariff, you know, across the board. there's lots of industries, unfortunately, where the u.s. is not manufacturing in certain parts of that. so with no competition, prizes rise. that's what's going to happen as a function of this. he believes, as he tried to argue this morning, that it will force lots of different industries to invest in the united states over time and that prices may go up initially, but that longer term they're going to go down. it's an argument. i think it's not necessarily a winning argument. but nonetheless, he made it. the other thing that was fascinating to hear is how he thinks about big tech, silicon valley and, frankly, how aligned he is with lena kahn at the ftc and her efforts to try to end

some of the sort of big tech. he has a very populist view. and that populist view, by the way, is at sometimes loggerheads, it sounds like, with former president trump. >> that's fascinating. also fascinating that he actually makes the argument with a straight face that you can raise taxes through tariffs on working class and middle class americans. the "wall street journal" editorial page agrees with that, that that's exactly what it is while giving tax cuts to billionaires and multinational corporations. lots of luck in ohio on that one. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you so much. willie. we were joined by john leguizamo to talk about his pbs show. >> we contributed last year $3.2 trillion to the u.s. gdp.

if we were our own country, we'd be the fifth largest nation in the world. >> new numbers released just this morning show from 2011 to 2021, american latinos are responsible for 20.9% of the real gdp growth in the united states. at the same time, the largest conference of its kind focusing on the massive impact of latinos on the u.s. economy kicks off today in san diego. it's called the latitude conference. about 6,000 people are expected to attend the four-day event. joining us now is the cofounder and chairman of the latino donor collaborative, soleil trujillo. good to have you with us this morning. thank you so much. take us inside some of these numbers a little bit and what they tell us about the american economy. >> well, i think the keyword is growth. the keyword is robust and the

keyword is basically breadth. the latino cohort now is generating $3.6 trillion of gdp in the latest report. it's growing consumption in the united states at 2 1/2 times the rate of the rest of the economy. it's now accounting for well over 20% of the gdp growth in the country. i could go on and on with core data here, but the punch line is that we, the united states of america, have a silver bullet, half silver bullet, that differentiates us from europe, japan, china and other places because of immigration. and what's happened over the last decade or two or three thanks to ronald reagan really opening things up. but at the end of the day, we have a community that's creating growth at the rate of only behind india, now passing china

in terms of growth rate. so big, powerful, important and core, and this is why latitude is an event where we talk about the mainstreaming of latinos, not thinking about east l.a. or south miami. it is mainstream and core, including numbers like manufacturing. 17% of all manufacturing now is being driven by this cohort. >> so, sol, you mentioned immigration. of course, that's an issue at the forefront of this year's presidential election. one of the candidates, donald trump, wants to completely shut the border, curb immigration and have a mass deportation program that could lead to millions of immigrants pushed out of the country. to your point, what would be the economic impact of all this? >> well, we've done our own analysis, but places like moody's and others have done theirs as well.

he would cause a massive recession. in case that was confusing, a massive recession. it's so ill thought out in terms of deporting 10 million people. we have a shortage on workers today. so we have a problem already. now we need more workers, and he wants to take them away. that doesn't make any sense at all. he'll crash two or three sectors of our economy. in addition, he as president and also joe biden as president have said, gee, we want everything made in america, which is great. i believe in that too. but you can't bring and reshore into the united states all these jobs unless you have workers to fill the jobs. and that is something that i'm puzzled at the logic or illogic with some of these strategies.

there's a way to do it just like businesses handle customers and customer volumes. it's database management. it's security. we have border security. we need to improve some of our processes. the point is we need workers, we need smart immigration. and this report, about $3.6 trillion, we are growing our economy differently than any other mature economy in the world because of what has happened with the latino core. >> that's such an important point. nobody talks about the next step. if you stop immigration, what happens to the economy. sol, thanks for pointing it out. again, 21% of real gdp growth either the last decade or so coming from the latino community. sol trujillo, thank you so much for being here. we appreciate it. >> all right. thank you. still ahead, we take a look at this morning's historic space walk with two private citizens venturing out of a spacex capsule, amazing pictures.

and someone who has a lot of experience in orbit, retired astronaut, democratic senator mark kelly of arizona is our next guest on "morning joe." ♪ take your protein pills and put your helmet on ♪ put your he♪ and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open and prevents future flare-ups. and with one dose a day, trelegy improves lung function so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful.

♪♪ the crew members of the spacex polaris completed the space walk this morning. the crew launched into space on tuesday. they flew to the highest orbital altitude humans have reached since nasa's last moon mission in 1972, reaching 870 miles above the earth's surface. let's bring in democratic senator mark kelly of arizona. he served on the armed services committee and the joint economic

committee. senator, thanks so much for being with us. i want to talk about the debate, donald trump visiting your home state. first, your thoughts about this incredible space walk. >> i was watching some of the video this morning. to see jared isaacman out there doing a space walk hundreds of miles away from earth is pretty exciting. this expands the ability for commercial operations. we're moving to commercialize more but especially low-earth orbit. this is an important mission. they're much further away than where the space station is. the space station is about 250 miles. they've gone up to about 850 miles. more important than that, they've gone through the van allen radiation belt, so they're studying the effect of that radiation on the human body.

>> extraordinary. let's talk about the debate. let's move there next. i specifically want to zero in on donald trump's refusal -- our former commander in chief, donald trump's refusal to say that he wanted ukraine to prevail over the russian invaders. your thoughts on that? how dangerous would a second trump presidency be in light of that not only for ukraine, but also for poland and the rest of europe? >> joe, i almost could not believe that he said that, because what that means for me -- and i served in the united states navy for 25 years. and if the former president doesn't want ukraine to win, to me, that only means one thing, and that's he wants russia to win. you know, his attitude towards autocrats and dictators, sucking up to them, things he said about nato, that with regards to nato, putin can do whatever the hell he wants. these are dangerous ideas.

i mean, nato itself and our alliance with our allies, it's really only an idea that we will come to each other's defense. donald trump has made that clear that he just might not do that. and to just want russia to win after they attacked an ally of ours and they put our european allies at risk, which also means that we are at risk, so donald trump's rhetoric and his actions have already made all americans less safe. >> senator, there were so many moments -- that was one of them that you just very articulately outlined during that debate. it was made clear that vice president harris is ready to be the commander in chief and donald trump is not. as you know, a debate doesn't win an election. you know the people of arizona and what's on their minds. was there a moment of that debate that you think i wish the people from arizona can see this moment, i hope the campaign puts money behind it, because it really draws the contrast.

what stuck out to you that you think would really resonate with people in your state? >> jen, i could give you a list of about ten things. let me just talk about one of them right now. the vice president kamala harris was very articulate about what donald trump and his presidency, a future donald trump presidency, if it was to happen, what it could mean to women in arizona. so donald trump took away a very fundamental right for women, and that's to make decisions about their own bodies, about abortion. he took that away. he knows it. they own that in arizona. but the details do matter here. so we have swung back and forth between one bad abortion ban and another. and on november 5th, we have the opportunity in arizona to fix this through a ballot initiative. but i hope arizonans saw what donald trump said when it was brought up about his -- about a national abortion ban.

he was specifically asked if he would veto that and he would not give an answer, which tells me that if there was a national abortion ban passed by congress, that he would allow it to stand. and it makes sense that he would do this. this is sort of part of what's in his bad deal for the american people, also known as project 2025. and what that means to arizonans, is even though we could go to the ballot box and restore these rights, in an instant donald trump could take it away again. and he made it very clear he would do that to women in arizona and across the country. >> you mentioned donald trump. he resumes his campaign today in your home state in arizona. a few quick thoughts about the former president's upcoming appearance? >> he's going to be at the linda ronstadt's music hall. she rejects the idea that he

shows up in a place that has her name on it. she's a tucsonian. i don't know if he's planning on going to the border. that's what he usually does. he goes down to the border to take a picture. he also made it clear during the debate that he doesn't want to solve the border security issue that arizonans face every day. he told republicans in the united states senate after we, democrats and republicans, negotiated a very strong border security bill, that they couldn't vote for it, because he needed it for the election. he made that very clear. because donald trump isn't about solving problems. he's just about talking about them. what we heard from kamala harris is she is focused on the american people. she wants to help the american people. she wants to help them deal with the problems that they face every day, whether it's the cost of housing and prescription medication and child care. she is focused like a laser on that.

and donald trump is just about grievances. we saw that over 90 minutes during this debate. i mean, he wants to talk about things the american people don't care about, made-up stories about people eating pets. so i think that debate made it very clear who was ready to be president right now and who is just a relic from the past who doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the oval office. >> democratic senator mark kelly of arizona, thanks for your time this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having me on. >> and jen psaki, thank you as well. we'll be watching "inside with jen psaki" sundays at noon and mondays at 8:00 p.m. eastern. mondays at 8:00 p.m. eastern coming up on "morning joe" -- >> beeter juice. >> don't say his name. if you say his name three times, he will appear. >> i know this is a big step for you. i'm going to give you the push

you need. beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice. >> beetlejuice. >> first of all, i want you two kids to know this is a safe space, okay? feel free to express yourself. don't be afraid. i sense there's an enabler here, but we'll get to that. >> you're a figment of my imagination. >> really. is this a figment of your imagination? >> a look at the movie "beetlejuice beetlejuice," already a blockbuster. he's stealing some of the artwork in the green room. justin theroux, who you saw in that clip, one of the stars of that hit movie, joins us next live in studio.

let's say you're deep in a show or a game or the game. on a train, at home, at work. okay, maybe not at work. point is at xfinity. we're constantly engineering new ways to get the entertainment you love to you faster and easier than ever. that's what i do. is that love island? ♪♪ when i was a teenager, a trick isster demon paralyzed my entire family and tried to force

me to marry him. i believed he was gone forever. until you found this in the attic. >> yeah. this is beetlejuice. >> don't ever say that name! >> beetlejuice. >> no, astrid, i'm serious! >> if you say it three times, he will appear. >> beetlejuice. >> beetlejuice is loose. >> ah! >> i'm going to make you so happy. that is a look at the new smash hit, "beetlejuice beetlejuice." comes 36 years after the franchise, beetlejuice haunting the living in case you haven't seen it, has returned to torment a mix of familiar faces and new characters. our next guest plays one of those characters, he is the great justin theroux. great to see you, man. >> great to see you, too.

>> gosh, this movie, i think everyone was excited from the first movie. but adding you and new characters, this thing is crazy. >> it's exploded. we're happy about it. and i think for good reason, it's a good film. >> what's your feeling about this, off on the part, knowing keaton is there, tim burton -- >> i idn't no everyone know everyone was going to be there. was this one of those spin-offs no one likes? >> right. >> with me, jenna and winona, it's a thrill. it's bananas. >> can you describe what that means? for people have an idea of what tim burton movie is like, but inside from an actor. >> it's kind of like going to -- i don't know what, you're depressed when you leave set because you go on to these sets that are so incredible and so well realized and beautifully

made and the details and the props and everything like that. so, you sort of spend all day working there. and then when you leave, the world just looks black and white again. you're like, i'm back out here. >> justin, tell us about your relationship to beetlejuice. did you remember being a fan, was there pleasure -- this movie is so beloved, was there pressure stepping in there, that, hey, we got to get it right again? >> there's pressure. i was with michael keaton, he's everywhere, and when you're coming in, you just want to sing in the same key as him. you don't want to try and make any fancy dance me ofs. that was immediately. but this genuinely was one of those cast where is we all got along so well. catherine o'hara alone, just giggling. anything she did. she would drink a cup of coffee,

i'd be like -- she really is one of one of the funniest. >> and, joe, this is one of those things where the follow-up lives up to the legacy of the original. >> yeah, it's so hard to do. justin, we want to go back because willy and i can relate. even on days when you weren't supposed to be working, you want to go to the set. willie and i are give us more. >> you want to be on the "morning joe" and then when you walk out, the world is just bleak again. >> well, it's just bleak, it's bleak until -- >> i do feel like i'm on a tim burton set right now. this is fantastic. it kind of looks -- >> this is 17 years. >> to get it together. >> and then the willy wonka factory and i'm on nbc news.

>> yeah, it really is, you know, 17 years for us of groundhog day, anyway, i want you to talk, if you will, about sort of the pinch-me moment of having these great stars all around you. and going, man, i cannot believe i'm here. and coming from you, that's saying quite a lot. >> it really is a pinch-me moment. michael has -- michael and tim, everybody, but those two in particular have so much energy. it's sort of like, during takes it's sort of like turning on a fire hose and just watching it, you know, just explode. it's like a fireworks display. so it's really -- i don't know, you know, it's hard to be impressed once you've been in the business long enough. but this was definitely one of those ones we thought, holy crap, the ride. >> yeah. >> everyone was such a deep bench of talent. between the writing. and even just the prop matches. we did all of these things

practically, there was no cgi, a lot of rubber guts and goo and claymation and puppets -- >> it's terrifying. >> it is. >> and the other day, amid -- well, they took a break from harassing you, as well -- >> you're wearing sleeves today. >> i'm wearing sleeves. >> this is for jason bateman. yeah, sleeves on. >> as we said, he was like, people might not like this movie, keaton was saying this, i'll always stand by this, kind of like defensive. and the movie is great. it just radiates a bunch of big stars who are not phoning it in. everybody was like, obviously, so in love being there with tim.

>> i think we all wanted to make each other laugh. and we all wanted to have fun. but at the same time, this is incredible -- this is not to get too serious about it, but there's incredible craft from those actors. you know, they bring -- i'm not a sports guy, it's like the chicago bulls when they were the chicago bulls. you know, it's like being on that time. >> you're not a sports guy? >> i'm definitely not a sports guy. >> it's like getting a touchdown with a baseball. when you do it, you feel great. >> keaton is michael jordan is what you're saying? >> yes. everyone is michael jordan. it's like a team full of michael jordan. >> you brought that in for a nice landing. the movie is great. if you haven't seen it, its spectacular, called "beetlejuice beetlejuice." the fully sleeved justin theroux. justin, we'll see you down at raves, one of new york's great bars. >> come on down. >> that does it for us this