so this whole crazy thing about cats and dogs is in line with that sort of conspiratorial thinking. dogs and cats are the third rail of american politics. mitt romney was devastated by seamus the dog, that we put him on the roof of the car on family vacations. kristi noem, her vice presidential aspirations were effectively ended when she told on herself a story about shooting her dog, cricket. we might not care that much about other people, but we do love our cats and dogs. that's part of the reason this story is really resonating. >> don't forget geese, man. we love our geese, too. can't forget the geese. author and columnist and conservative writer, matt lewis, always a pleasure, my man. thank you so much. and thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this friday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. i'm going to actually do

something really unusual, and i'm going to invite you to attend one of donald trump's rallies. ♪ there's no need to feel down i said, young man ♪ >> really interesting thing to watch. >> women, i won't be following you around to the hospitals, monitoring. >> what you will also notice is people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom. >> by the way, her crowds are zero. her crowds, she has no crowds. >> i'll tell you, the one thing you will not hear him talk about is you. >> they're taking the geese. you know where they are, the park and the lake, even walking off with their pets. my dog has been taken. >> you will not hear him talk about your needs, dreams, and your desires. >> i always liked him. i'm not going to watch him anymore. i'm not going to watch him because he's not legit. what he did, i'm not going to watch him. [ applause ] and his hair is not as good as it used to be, you know? >> i'll tell you, i believe you

deserve a president who actually puts you first. >> mom is so proud. come on, baby, you can do it. you saw it. uh, can't do it. she couldn't get it up. >> i pledge to you that i will. >> my wife hates when i do this. she says it is so unpresidential. >> yeah. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, september 13th. willie, you ready for the weekend? >> i am. i love his obsession with david muir's hair. he's disappointed the hair has gotten worse, implying he thinks he has great hair. went on about that. fascinating. >> does he really want to be talking about hair? i don't know. then the weave, i don't know. it seems to me that, right now, the big story is the fact that he doesn't want to debate again. i'd love to get your thoughts on this. >> yeah. >> seems to me they could have waited a week or two, but he must have been so traumatized by

being so badly beaten that he just wanted to get it out of his mind, that he'd ever have to be on stage again with kamala harris. >> yeah, i mean, he objectively got blown out of the room at that debate three nights ago. he knows that. his advisors know that. republicans who support him generally have said that on television. fox news hosts are saying that. he knows he got creamed. now, he's framing it as the debate was unfair to me. the moderators were mean. i'm not going to do that again. he doesn't want to get back in the ring with vice president kamala harris. that's the truth. as you said, donald trump officially now is backing out of a second debate with the vice president. despite previously claiming he would participate in one more debate with harris, the former president said yesterday during the rally in arizona that because he, quote, won on tuesday night, he doesn't need another one. >> but when a prize fighter loses a fight, you've seen a lot of fights, right? the first words out of that

fighter's mouth is, "i wanna rematch. i want a rematch." that's what she said, "i want a rematch." polls clearly show i won against comrade, kamala harris. she went to abc, which in my opinion has taken a big heat. these people were bad news. they kept screaming at me. i said, why are you screaming? i'm saying to myself, i always liked him. i'm not going to watch him anymore. i'm not going to watch him because he's not legit. what he did, i'm not going to watch him. [ applause ] and his hair is not as good as it used to be, you know? so because we've done two debates and because they were successful, there will be no third debate. [ applause ]

it's too late anyway. the voting has already begun. you have to go out and vote. we have to vote. >> north carolina, two nights ago, donald trump and i had our debate. [ applause ] did you watch it? did you watch it? look, i believe we owe it to have another debate, right? we owe it to the voters. because here's the thing, in this election, what's at stake could not be more important. >> that's kamala harris, willie, on the road in front of yet another massive crowd, despite what donald trump says. here's the problem with everything donald trump said in those sound bites, how many people watched the debate? i think it was a pretty big number, like 70 million or something. >> yeah. >> across multiple networks.

so we don't have to actually say, oh, he's lying. let's fact-check that. everyone saw it. everyone saw it. everyone knows that he's lying. >> yeah, and he likes that boxing metaphor about a rematch, somehow framing that as how he won. doesn't need another one. i think the more apt boxing metaphor is he just got his butt kicked in the third or fourth round, and he's deciding not to come back out for the next round, where kamala harris is handing in the middle of the ring saying, "let's do it again." he wants none of it. let's continue the conversation with co-host of msnbc's "the weekend," michael steele. associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. and managing editor of "the bulwark," sam stein. what does it mean when someone declares they don't want another

debate? >> yeah, yeah. when you come out and try to frame this the way donald trump is framing it, after we saw what we saw, right? it's not like this was one of those things that you only heard on radio or you just didn't tune in and missed it. no, a lot of people saw this. we know he's lying. we know he got -- not just got stung, but he got knocked down. he got knocked down in such a way that he could not get up. basically, what you have is the -- to keep the boxing metaphor going, the guy on the mat looking up, one hand in the air, trying to get up off the floor, saying, "i don't want anymore. no mas." it's very clear why. because he recognized from the very beginning of that debate, and, for me, willie, it was the moment heshe walked over and shk his hand. he had no intentions of shaking

her hand. he was not going to be the gentleman to go to the center of the ring, if you will, and shake your opponent's hand, and to begin the conversation. but she did him one better. went over to him and introduced herself, kamala harris. from that moment, he was not the same. she started off a little rocky, but she found her footing very quickly on issue after issue. and the only thing he was reduced to was talking about ducks and cats and whining about the fact that, you know, she was lying about his crowd size. if that's the -- that is basically the essence of that debate for donald trump. yeah, he's on the mat looking up from the floor, saying, "i don't want no more." god bless you, donald, because when you get up, she's going to hit you again. and she's ready. i think the country is ready for her to continue to do that because i think i heard mika say

at some point earlier this week, we're just exhausted. and i think we're done with all of this. and she has become -- as donald trump was the avatar for grievance and regression and looking backwards, she's now the avatar for looking forward and hope. people see that there is something ahead that they can move towards as opposed to staying stuck where we are. >> kudos to you, michael steele, for taking our extended boxing metaphor to the doran and sugar ray leonard fight with no mas in 1980. nicely done there. we saw the stark contrast. we saw donald trump in his rally in arizona talking about dogs and cats and geese and david muir's hair. >> yeah. >> cut to two ruckus, crowded events, contrary to what donald trump keeps saying, for donald trump in the state of north carolina. >> whoa, look at that. >> just trust your eyes. is there a big crowd there? are they enthusiastic?

are they excited? yes, the answer is. and how gleeful the vice president was when talking about the debate. the smile on her face. she, too, knows how it went in the floor in philadelphia tuesday night. >> yeah. she had two rallies in north carolina yesterday. one was, like, 7,500 people. the other was 17,500 people, something like that. they were huge. and they were ruckus. they were enthusiastic. they were full of joy. they were exactly what trump and his camp most fear. look, this debate was -- we'll see if it was a real turning point in this election, but it was certainly a moment. a moment that can only be good

for kamala harris and a moment that come be bad for donald trump. and i imagine that his staff, when he said, okay, maybe we don't do another debate, i imagine they encouraged him, "okay, okay, send that out. say that today. let's eliminate the possibility of another debate." how could they stand one of those? another beatdown like that? i just don't see it. >> right. you know, not overtly trying to be mocking, because these are really serious times. nobody made that more clear than kamala harris did on the debate stage. but one final note about the debate. i mean, it really was, no joke here, it was a "wizard of oz" finally at the end. when the curtain is pulled back. his act was dismantled by her face alone, and also everything that she said in front of so many people. it's going to be very hard for

the former president to convince anybody, except for die-hard maga who don't -- the types of people who will follow him to anywhere, it's going to be very hard for him to convince most americans that he had any hits during that debate. he was the loser. and for the first time, everyone, everyone at the same time saw it. the wizard of oz. let's talk more about the vice president's rallies in north carolina. she received a ruckus reception. huge crowd last night inside the greensboro coliseum complex. [ applause ]

>> that was the roar from 17,000 people when she took the stage. the vice president recapped the debate and pushed one of her core messages of her campaign. >> on tuesday night, i talked about issues that i know matter to the families across america, like bringing down the cost of living, investing in america's small businesses, protecting reproductive freedoms. [ applause ] and keeping our nation safe and secure! but that's not what we heard from donald trump. instead, you know, and i called it at the beginning of the debate, it was the same old show. same old tired playbook we've heard for years.

no plans for how he would address the needs of the american people. well, folks, look, it's time to turn the page. turn the page. [ applause ] >> prior to greensboro, the vice president spoke to people in charlotte, where people gathered in line several hours before the start time. once the rally kicked off, harris highlighted the flood of republican endorsements she's recently received. >> over 200 people who worked for president george h.w. bush, president george w. bush, john mccain, and mitt romney, endorsed me for president. former vice president dick cheney and congresswoman liz cheney are supporting me, as well. [ applause ] because, as they said, we have a duty as citizens to put country

above partisanship and defend our constitution. >> on that point, i mean, it's overwhelming, sam stein, her crowds, which is something trump talked about. he got so -- i mean, he fell for it, and it was painful to watch, how quickly he fell for kamala harris kind of making fun of his rallies in a very real and realistic way. he talks about hannibal lecter, makes up crap, and just throws it out there and really speaks out nothing. most importantly, does not talk you, the american people, and what he could do for the american people. but even more so, he was very rattled about crowd size, saying nobody comes to her rallies. again, if anyone wants to check, i mean, there was 17,000 people at one rally alone yesterday, and they were going wild.

of the 200 republicans endorsing her, i do think there is a decision to be made by former president george w. bush and others that are very high-level republicans. if they truly believe that donald trump is a threat to democracy, but if they also truly believe that there is a republican party to be saved, that there is a republican party to be rebuilt, that there is a republican party that should be part of the democracy we live in, isn't the only way to go at this point, to endorse kamala harris and let the republican party rebuild? >> i mean, very, very good questions. first on the rally size, you know, trump will probably respond by alleging that this is all a.i. generated, right, and that this can't possibly be real. secondarily, on the issue of republicans supporting harris, first, it was disorienting, i have to be honest, to see a massive stadium filled with

democrats, cheering the mention of dick cheney. 20 years ago, that would have been unfathomable. but we're in a very weird, disorienting time. mika, i think you bring up the right question, which is, do certain republicans who we presume or know don't like donald trump, want him to fail, do they feel a moral obligation to not just say they're not voting against trump but to make the affirmative case for voting for harris? >> to stand up, yeah. >> dick and liz cheney have done that. alberto gonzales yesterday did that. the question on the mind of people like us at "the bulwark" is will people like george w. bush, condoleezza rice, people we presume do not support donald trump, will they come out and say it's good for both the republic and republican party to see harris win? good for the republican party in that we need a saner version of

the republican party, and the only way that can happen is if we prove that trumpism finally and fully is a loser? >> yeah. i mean, by the way, donald trump is not a republican. like, if everybody just really looked at the reality of donald trump, the person leading the republican party right now is anything but a republican and will throw away any issue if it doesn't serve him personally, even abortion. but he's already done so much damage on that that i'd like to point out, willie, one thing about what sam said about that crowd of democrats supporting kamala, clapping about dick cheney. i can tell you, i know personally, that there are some republicans in those crowds. republican women especially are gathering together and going to kamala harris rallies. as her campaign and kamala harris will tell you, they are welcome to be there. >> yeah. republicans for harris is what the campaign calls it. let's not forget that group of nikki haley voters that are potentially up for grabs, who

say they cannot abide donald trump and they need to be convinced that kamala harris is the choice. i will say, sam and i are living in the same headspace. i watched that clip, and i thought, my god, go back to 2004. an arena full of democrats. >> amazing. >> cheering for darth vader himself, dick cheney. >> yes. >> who was the arch villain of american politics. extraordinary time for sure. during the arizona rally yesterday, as we said, donald trump continued to push that baseless claim that migrants from haiti are eating pets in springfield, ohio. >> there's a place called springfield, ohio, that you've been reading about. 20,000 illegal haitian immigrants have descended upon the town of 58,000 people. destroying their entire way of life. this was a beautiful community, and now it's horrible, what's happened. enrollment in the state's medicaid and food assistance

programs have soared. motor vehicle accidents have skyrocketed. recording of 911 calls even show residents are reporting that the migrants are walking off with the town's geese. they're taking the geese. you know where the geese are? in the park and the like. even walking off with their pets. my dog has been taken! my dog has been stolen. this can only happen -- these people are the worst. as the people of arizona understand better than anyone else, under kamala harris, our country is under a thing called invasion. did you ever hear the word invasion? just like a military. it's like a military invasion. we're being conquered, and we are being occupied by a foreign element. >> officials in springfield, ohio, and the republican governor of ohio, mike dewine, again say there is absolutely no

evidence of haitian immigrants, not illegal immigrants, haitian immigrants abusing pets. many of the migrants are, as i say, here legally under temporary protected status. meanwhile, the mayor of springfield said the city received a bomb threat that used hateful language against the migrant and, specifically, the haitian community. yesterday's threat led to the evacuation of city hall, two schools, and the local motor vehicle agency. mayor rob hugh telling "the washington post," its city needs help and not the hate being spread by some political leaders. it is easy to laugh, michael steele, at all of the dog and cat and geese eating that's coming out of the mouth of donald trump, all of the memes that he's posting. he's actually leaning into this. he thinks he's got a winner here. also, it has real-world implications for people in springfield, ohio, for haitian immigrants who are here legally, and for people of color across the country. >> it absolutely does.

there are some real ramifications here that extend well beyond the jokes. and i think, you know, it's time we hold donald trump responsible for this. he is -- he is being deliberate in what he's saying. he's been told what the truth is. not just by his campaign, but by officials of both the city and the state. that state official happens to be a fellow republican. this is not some democrat trying to do politics on the subject. if someone is harmed or injured, and bomb threats are being called in, there are idiots who are following this man, who will take action because they believe donald trump. when you use terms like there is a military invasion by these individuals, by these others, you will have people who will

respond to that. it rests on donald trump's lips and on his hands, what happens. we just can't sugar coat this. there's great memes and jokes for sure, but this very quickly turns the corner of becoming serious for the people who live in that community. and for haitians not just in that community but in other communities around the country. and, you know, we just -- it just -- i don't know. i get frustrated and, yet, at the same time, confused by how something like this takes off the way it does, and that people think so little of their fellow human beings, to believe in something as insidious and stupid, and stupid as this. >> yeah. >> that could lead to someone being hurt. >> yeah. i mean, look at january 6th. look at this bomb threat.

i mean, these are real events. it's not, oh, democrats just exaggerating, taking a word out of context and getting hysterical about it because he said this or said that. no, these things have happened. there are many things now, on the record, in our history, that have been rested on the lips and at the hands of donald trump and also the leaders who continue to support him. it's a campaign of constant hatred, constant lies. for republican voters and leaders, i just, like, how long can you do this? aren't you getting tired? don't you want your party back? it's just -- it's exhausting, and it's so destructive. we'll continue this. but still ahead on "morning joe," we'll dig into brand-new polling that shows kamala harris expanding her lead against donald trump following this week's debate. plus, a "morning joe" exclusive. former secretary of state hillary clinton shares her thoughts about joe biden exiting

the 2024 race and what it means to have a woman at the top of the democratic ticket. but first, our next guest says the most important trial of the election is the one you never saw coming. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin joins us to explain. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds. ♪ i still haven't found ♪ es the? boom! you get your money back - in cash. straight cash? second chance, you heard? what if my guy fumbles, and some other guy scores first? second chance. what if you need a second chance to land on the field? this offer only applies to touchdowns. you alright? i hurt my spleen! get the second chance offer from betmgm. the sportsbook born in vegas.

i used to leak urine when i coughed, laughed or exercised. i couldn't even enjoy playing with my kids. i leaked too. i just assumed it was normal. then we learned about bulkamid - an fda-approved, non-drug solution for our condition. it really works, and it lasts for years. it's been the best thing we've done for our families. visit findrealrelief.com to find an expert physician near you. ask if bulkamid is right for you and discuss potential risks. results and experiences may vary. move beyond the leaks. a trial date has been set in

the case against the georgia election board. the state recently passed two controversial measures regarding election integrity, which require election officials to conduct a, quote, reasonable inquiry into election results before certifying them. they also allow county board members to look at election-related documentation, created during an election. the trial for the case will begin october 1st and will be livestreamed online. joining us now, former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin. great to see you again. you're calling this the most critical trial this election season. doesn't involve trump, this one. explain for us the lawsuit that's led to this trial and maybe why people should watch it on livestream. >> mika, people should watch this because even though donald trump is not involved, it is all about him. this is an effort by three members on this georgia election board who are each appointed by

different constituencies in georgia to throw some of the rules and permit discretion in the certification process with respect to county election results. and if those two rules you just described are allowed to stand, the fear is that certain counties in georgia will not report their results by november 12th, as many people, including secretary of state brad raffensperger believe is mandatory under the statute. from there, if they don't report their results from the 12th, it may be an effort to also prevent the entire state of georgia from reporting its results and, thereby, its slate of electors. i just want to clarify for you and some of the viewers what would happen in that instance. we all know that there is a certain number of votes to win the electoral college, but under a new 2022 statute passed by congress, if a state doesn't report its slate of electors, you essentially subtract that state's electoral votes from the

total. georgia here has 16 electoral votes, so this may be an attempt to deprive one of the candidates of a victory here by taking georgia's 16 votes off the table and skewing the results accordingly. >> lisa, that's so well explained. it's really important for people to understand. there is the rhetoric that comes from donald trump already laying the groundwork to question the outcome of the election in november, should he lose. but then there is the work being done down at the state level to actually carry that out in a way that would be different from 2020, in a way they were unable to do then. is there -- are there versions of what we're seeing in georgia taking place across the country as well as some of those maga republicans seed the ground to stall, at the very least, the results coming in? >> i would say yes and no, willie. on one hand, delayed certification in georgia is the new fake elector. we have yet to see efforts that sort of dubdub duplicate what i

going on here. it's one part of a two-part scheme. first, the wide spread changes to the voter registration rules, trying to take out of the equation people they think will vote for vice president harris. that we're seeing in places all over the country, from michigan and arizona to ohio to texas. efforts to sort of change the composition of who is entitled to vote in the first place. then, if at first you don't succeed, you delay the certification. >> all right. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, thank you very much for explaining that this morning. we appreciate it. our hillary clinton exclusive is coming up next. plus, the biden administration is considering allowing ukraine to launch long-range weapons provided by the u.s. inside russian territory. we're going to dig into the impact this could have on the war. "morning joe" will be right back.

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you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title. beautiful shot of capitol hill in washington, d.c., at 35 past the hour. former secretary of state hillary clinton has a new book coming out, and "morning joe" has an exclusive, first look at

one key part of it. the book entitled "something lost, something gained, refleks on life, love, and liberty," goes on sale next tuesday. clinton was recording the audiobook when news broke president biden dropped out of the race for the white house. she decided to record her first reaction to that monumental shift in presidential politics as an epilogue to the audio version. "morning joe" has now an exclusive excerpt of that epilogue. take a listen. >> on july 21st, 2024, when joe biden announced he was dropping out of the presidential race and endorsing kamala harris, the dream of seeing a woman in the oval office was suddenly back within reach. it wouldn't be me, but it could be kamala. history beckoned. but a whole lot of bigotry,

fear, and disinformation, not to mention the electoral college, stood in the way. could we do it? could we finally shatter that highest, hardest glass ceiling and prove that, in america, there is no limit to what is possible? when bill and i heard the news, that biden was withdrawing and endorsing kamala, we drafted a statement saluting him and also endorsing her. she is talented, experienced, and ready to be president, so it was an easy decision. after our statement went public, kamala called us. she was remarkably calm for someone who had just been thrown into the deep end of a bottomless pool. she told us she wanted to earn the nomination. "i'm going to need your help," she said. "we'll do whatever you need," i told her. bill and i were both ready to do

everything we could to help get her elected. history is full of cautionary tales, but 2024 is not 2016. trump's victory then and the ugliness of his presidency woke up a lot of people. there is less complacency now about the strength of our democracy and more consciousness of the threats posed by disinformation, demagoguery, and implicit bias. some people have asked how i feel about the prospect of another woman poised to achieve the breakthrough i didn't. if i'm being honest, in the years after 2016, i also wondered how i would feel if another woman ever took the torch that i had carried so far and ran on with it. with some little voice deep down inside whispering, "that should

have been me"? now i know the after. after i got off the phone with the vice president, i looked at bill with a huge smile and said, "this is exciting!" i felt promise. i felt possibility. it was exhilarating. when i imagine kamala standing before the capitol next january, taking the oath of office as our first woman president, my heart leaps. after hard years of division, it will prove that our best days are still ahead. and that we are making progress on our long journey toward a more perfect union. and it will make such a difference in the lives of hardworking people everywhere. for now, think of this momentous period, i think back to where this book began. as jodie mitchell sang all those

years ago, "something is lost, but something is gained." democrats have lost our standard bearer. we will miss joe biden's steady leadership, deep empathy, and fighting spirit. he is a wise and decent man who served our country well. yet we have gained much, too. a new champion, an invigorated campaign, a renewed sense of purpose. >> we'll hear from former secretary clinton when she joins us next thursday right here on "morning joe." willie, you know, you could see the joy the clintons had, especially hillary clinton, in the fact that kamala harris had the torch passed to her, and how quickly they endorsed her. the obamas and others took a few days and set it up right. not that they were thinking about it, like, whether or not, but they prepared. the clintons just came out as fast as they could tweet. one of the many reasons is

hillary clinton is a huge part of why this moment is possible. and, secondly, i think a lot of people felt a lot of buyer's remorse when it comes to trump. when you look at what hillary clinton said during the debates, during her speeches, in the run-up to the election of donald trump, she was right on so many levels. there is a lot there, and it all adds up to, yes, joy. this possibility that kamala harris, an african american woman, can beat donald trump and become president of the united states. >> yeah. secretary clinton endorsed vice president harris very quickly. in fact, in these last couple of months, has been an adviser to kamala harris. if you talk to people around the campaign, there is no one else on this planet right now who can understand what kamala harris is going through, running against, as a woman, running against donald trump. what is it like to run against him?

she has been close counsel to her on that. it's been widely reported. the campaign has said so, as well, privately. that kamala harris is really leaning on hillary clinton as she moves forward. but, eugene robinson, kamala harris may have also learned from hillary clinton that she is not necessarily leaning into, as far as hillary clinton did, the historic nature of her candidacy. suggesting that it is implied by her very standing on the stage next to donald trump. she's not talking about identity, not talking about being the first woman president, the first woman of color to be president, as well. it's there. people know about it. it is something they admire about her. but she's not leading with it, perhaps, in the way secretary clinton did. >> we lost gene's mike. sam stein, i'll let you figure that out while we figure out gene's mike.

>> i can fill in for gene, i hope. yeah, it was evident in the convention, how little relative to the other topics gender was brought up. it was implied that she would be a historic candidate. harris did not lean into it. it was mentioned, but it wasn't sort of the metaphor of the glass ceiling was not omnipresent. i do wonder as i listen to that audio book, and i think back to 2016 and relive that campaign. one of the great questions we have sort of lingering over the next 54 days or so is, are voters really ready to get beyond some of the hiccups they had with gender? obviously, some of what happened in 2016 was related uniquely to hillary and some of the baggage she had from decades of being in the political arena. some of it were very much gender. when you look at the focus groups, you look at the polls, when you see harris in the trail, just how you see the

message emphasized, that is one of the big, lingering questions for me. you know, will the country, will the voters be able to get their minds around the idea of having a female president? certainly, a huge swath of the voting electorate already is there, but is that critical mass in the middle, those people who are undecided, will that be a factor? >> listening tohillary clinton talking about the years after 2016, i was reminded of an interview with secretary clinton years ago. i said, do you feel guilty about what happened in the years after donald trump? he cut me off and said, of course i do. i feel terrible about it. it haunts her in some ways. i think she is fully on board with kamala harris and doesn't, i don't think anyway, listening to her there, i don't think she feels any "i should have been

me." i think she feels she should have won, but she also feels like it's got to be somebody. let's make it kamala harris. >> yeah. it's interesting, though, because i think -- i mean, i really feel the pride in her words. i think a lot of women across america were proud to be women when they watched kamala harris on the debate stage. it was her moment. she took it. she nailed it. it's just funny to me to hear that it's even an issue for some people. i know it may be. oh, kamala harris is a woman of color. she's a woman. are americans ready? i, i immediate think, are they ready? what, are they ready for a psych psychopath? are they ready for someone who wants to use the government to commit retribution against all of his opponents for no reason at all? who wants to destroy our democracy? that's not an exaggeration. that's not rhetoric. that's what he said. that's what he has been doing.

the next time around, as anne applebaum has eloquently stated in a recent piece for "the guardian," for many dictators and wanna-be dictators, the second chance is when they get it done. it's happened in countries around the world where they fail the first time, they go to jail or they don't get in there, and then the second time, they know what they're doing. donald trump will make sure that his first presidency looks like a walk in the park. are we ready for a woman? that's not the question, i think, that should be asked, gene robinson. i think we got your audio going. it's like, are we ready to have -- i'm sorry, i just haven't spoken to experts, but someone who seems to have psychotic tendencies running our government, who has plans to do things that are very counter to our democracy, and has already hurt women terribly,

monstrously, already, happening now in this country. >> absolutely. >> are we ready for that? that's the question. i don't want to hear, are we ready for a woman? that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard! that's what's gotten us here. >> i don't want to hear that either. but, first of all, it should have been secretary clinton. she should have been the first woman president of the united states. i think she made mistakes in the campaign, and we know all about it, but in the end, i do think there's some sort of deep seeded sexism, misogyny, call it whatever you will, that has not been purged from the american psyche. >> oh, it's deep. >> let's keep in mind, kamala harris has already made history. she's already broken ceilings. she's the first woman vice

president. but would you be surprised if this was the actual, most important question as we get closer to the election? we can see who is the most qualified candidate. we can see who is the safer candidate. we the see which candidate is going to lead this country in a responsible way, in a forward direction, and we can see which candidate is, as you said, the kind of psychopath. i'm not a doctor, but who is unbalanced, deteriorating, absolutely unfit to be president of the united states. yet, he is a man, and she is a woman. i think she is right, not necessary to lean into that. it is obvious.

and i hope we're ready to cross that threshold. i hope this nation is not still hung up on electing a woman as president. i really hope that. >> i thought there was an opportunity with 70 million or so watching, that perhaps seeing how kamala harris handled donald trump in the debate, maybe even for some republicans, maybe her answers might not have been as fulsome on the economy, or you may not like her poliies or even the plans she has, but you can't deny what you saw on the stage. it was a woman prepared to speak truth to power, and to take on donald trump in ways that nobody has been able to, not a tv moderator, not candidates, not nobody. she did what nobody can do as a woman. i hope that helps you, the misogyies out there, perhaps

move the needle a bit on decisions about whether or not women are capable of leading. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to speak with north carolina attorney general and gubernatorial candidate, josh stein, on whether he thinks democrats can win the battleground states. plus, we'll dive into the new book entitled "punishing putin," which goes inside the global economic war to bring down russia. and explores how the kremlin is keeping their economy going despite sanctions. "morning joe" will be right back. not a drill. subway dropped the price on all their subs. 20% off any sub, any size. subway did what?! any sub? yup! for a limited time. get 20% off when you order in app. hurry and get this deal before it's gone!

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pass to the outside, wide open. inside the ten. and james cook takes it in. >> first and goal from the one yard line. into the end zone. walking into the end zone, james cook for the touchdown. buffalo at the 49 yard line. on the ground, breaking tackles, james cook inside the 20. inside the five. somersaults for the touchdown. whoa! >> the great al michaels on the call there. a huge night for buffalo bills running back james cook, scoring three touchdowns in the first half of last night's game against the miami dolphins. the bills dominating down in miami. 31-10, the final score.

they have now won 10 of the last 11 games against the dolphins. but the headline out of this game, serious concerns again about the health of miami's franchise quarterback, tua tagovailoa. left the game in the third quarter after suffering a concussion. scrambling up the middle, trying to pick up a first down. his head collided with the chest of bills safety damar hamlin. teammates immediately motioned for medical staff to come on the field. tua eventually able to walk to the locker room on his own. miami head coach said the quarterback is in good spirits after the game. tua's third diagnosed concussion as a pro. he suffered a pair of them during the 2022 season. sam stein, tua got a huge contract in the offseason. he is the miami dolphins franchise, but big concerns about, not just what happened last night, but given his history, the two concussions he suffered in 2022 were gruesome. i think a lot of people remember what we saw on the field. there were questions about why

he was let back onto the field, taking those hits. really, for his sake, you hope he is okay. >> yeah. i mean, one of those concussions in 2022 was so gruesome, the nfl changed protocol around concussions. >> yeah. >> this one was gruesome, too. i mean, if you watch it, his arm goes up, clear sign of a concussion right there. his neck is bent in a horrible way. look, what do we know, right, about how this works for them personally? we're not doctors. we're here looking at the tv screen, trying to medically diagnose what happened. that said, there's evidence at this juncture of what successive concussions can do to a human being, and the damage it causes long term. you watch this stuff and wonder, you know, is it worth it? like, is this worth it? obviously, it's a decision he has to make for himself. the organization has to be transparent about the risk

associated with it. the nfl should be open about what a concussion can do to a human being's head and brain. but you have to feel for the guy, watching his third major concussion in two years. it's horrible. >> of course, the instinct of anybody who is competitive, especially at that level, is just to get right back on the field, right? >> yeah. >> he wants to be out there. there need to be guardrails. they've gotten better in recent years in the nfl, partly because of what we saw from tua two years ago. still, the doctors need to intervene here and make sure he is okay before he gets hit again. let's turn to major league baseball. sam, i know you're excited about this one. another walk-off win for the yanks in the bronx. >> eh. >> all the amazing things juan soto has done in his career. only one walk-off hit. back when he was with the nationals. on a 2-2. grounds one. throw into center field. here comes birdie.

the throw not in time! juan soto's first walk-off hit as a yankee comes against the red sox! >> juan soto, single up the middle, giving the yankees its second straight extra winning walk-off after wednesday's win over the royals. the yankees have a two-game lead in the a.l. east over the baltimore oioles with 15 to play. red sox, four and a half games back of the final wild card spot. three more games between the yankees and red sox, sam. still time. >> stop it. >> still time to sneak into the wild card. come on. >> i think of all the annoying elements of that clip you just played. it's got to be the announcer being like, of all the things juan soto has never done, a walk-off. >> yeah. >> willing it into existence, shoving it down our throats. you didn't have to play the whole clip.

that was a lengthlengthy clip t. you could have just had the hit but had to stuff it down my throat. no, there's no time. there's no time for the red sox to get in. it's over. it hurts that it is going to be the final nail coming from the yankees, but i suppose it's just the way it has to be. >> you know, mike barnicle says he knows when it is time to start putting the shutters up, that the summer is over. we're turning to fall. >> the summer is over. >> maybe, maybe, maybe this morning he is going out to the garage to start looking for the shutters. >> where is mike barnicle? >> all right. mika, we'll stop talking about baseball now. >> now they're depressed. maybe the red sox could lose, then i get joe back. that'd be great. >> there ya go. well, we are now five seconds before the top of the hour. new polling shows vice president kamala harris widening her lead against former president donald trump. the latest morning consult poll taken directly after the presidential debate shows harris with a five-point lead over trump, 50% to 45% among likely

voters. compared to the last morning consult poll taken before the debate, harris is up one point versus trump, who went down one point. meanwhile, vice president harris raised $47 million in the first 24 hours following her tuesday night debate against donald trump. that's the biggest haul since the vice president announced her candidacy in late july, according to a senior campaign official. the total includes funds from 600,000 individual donors. that's important. the trump campaign has not yet released post-debate fundraising figures. the vice president held two rallies in battleground north carolina yesterday. she received a ruckus reception inside the greensboro coliseum complex last night. take a look. [ cheers and applause ]

>> that was the roar from the 17,000-person crowd when she took the stage. the vice president highlighted her strong debate performance and told the crowd it's time for the country to move on from donald trump. >> on tuesday night, i talked about issues that i know matter to the families across america. like bringing down the cost of living, investing in america's small businesses, protecting reproductive freedoms. [ applause ] and keeping our nation safe and secure! but that's not what we heard from donald trump. instead, you know, and i called it at the beginning of the debate, it was the same old show. same old tired playbook we've heard for years.

with no plans for how he would address the needs of the american people. well, folks, look, it's time to turn the page. [ applause ] turn the page. >> prior to greensboro, the vice president spoke to 7,500 voters at an event in charlotte, where people began gathering in line several hours before the start time. joining us now, senior spokesperson and adviser for the harris campaign, adrienne elrod. it's good to have you back on the show. >> great to be back. >> i just want to get your response to donald trump when he was announcing that he -- i guess there's going to be no more debates. that was really quick, like, two days later, no debates, not doing it. they couldn't even wait a week to, like, maybe try to put some space between it. but he just does not want to do it again. but i'm curious, he says he won.

>> yeah. he says he won. he says a lot of things that simply aren't true. look, any person, mika, who tuned into the debate tuesday night, whether you are a trump supporter, a harris-walz supporter, an undecided voter who tuned in to try to really understand what both candidates stand for, who they're fighting for, the choice was very clear. also, who won that debate was also very clear. you saw the vice president taking a strong command on every single issue that matters to the american people. from expanding reproductive freedoms to making sure the american people have, you know, not only the right to get ahead but to stay ahead economically. you know, obviously, she talked about strengthening democracy and protecting democracy. so the things that matter the most to the american people, the things that matter the most to undecided voters who are deciding, you know, still at this point who they're going to support, she made it very clear where she stands. she's fighting for them. you know, i think donald trump

can continue to go out there and tell lies and say he won this debate, but i think if you are the average person tuning in and watching what happened tuesday night, it is very obvious who the vice president stands for, who she is fighting for. that, in turn, means that she won that debate. >> if no more debates, what's -- because that was a real platform. i believe 70 million people tune in to watch that, and you get an unvarnished look at each candidate without a lot of spin around it, just them on the stage alone. we learned a lot in that debate, but there's not going to be any more. what's the strategy to get that same strong message and more, especially about reproductive freedoms, to the swing states and to all the voters who matter so much in this election? >> well, you just played a clip of her in greensboro, which she had, i think, you know, well over 10,000 people at the rally. i mean, that's what she's doing. she's taking her message

directly to the american people. she's traveling the battleground states. she's drawing big crowds and making sure every single person in the room, obviously local press is a big focus of ours when traveling to states, that she's getting a lot of local press, and that people understand who she is fighting for, what she stands for. you know, the thing i think is really important, too, mika, and we talked about this on the show before, is when you see these big crowds at the events she's doing, those crowds are then turning around, making small dollar donations to our campaign. just announced we raised $47 million from 600,000 donors in the 24 hours after the debate, which is a substantial amount of money. people are giving to the campaign and also signing up for volunteer shifts. when you're seeing the big crowds, those people are actually going to work for the campaign. they're donating. they're signing up for shifts. they're phone banking. they're knocking on doors. i think, you know, we talk about the infrastructure we have in these states, and we've been investing in, you know, for a

long time, well before we had the vp as our candidate, back when it was president biden who was the candidate, we've been investing in these states. we have over 250 offices in every single battleground state combined. we have, you know, 2,000 or so workers in the states. we have the infrastructure that is there to support the volunteerism, the excitement. that's what is going to matter, mika, when it comes to a really close election. this election will still be very close. you know, you showed a poll that demonstrated that the american people overwhelmingly believe she won that debate. but we still know this is going to be a very close race that is won on the margins in seven battleground states. we have the infrastructure and the support there to channel this excitement and enthusiasm m, but we still want to make it very clear, it is going to be close. >> adrienne, good morning. good to see you. one of the things i'm sure you hear from swing voters, maybe even republican voters, talking about nikki haley supporters who

want nothing to do with donald trump and are curious about kamala harris, whether they should support her, is they do have concerns about where she stands now versus where she stood previously in her career, particularly in 2019, during the 2020 race. what's a way to explain how the positions have changed pretty dramatically for vice president harris? she says her values hasn't changed, but what does that mean when you talk about her support previously for decriminalizing illegal border crossings, support for single payer health care, getting rid of that, and then her ban of fracking, none of which she supports anymore. how can a voter understand those changes? >> i'm glad you asked this question, will leigh. willie, she's made it clear. when you become an american servant and serve the american people, you learn about the issues and your positions can evolve. the position on fracking is the

position she had during the 2020 campaign. people evolve on positions. we can look back to where a lot of elected officials stood on marriage equality, for example. in the early 2000s and mid 2000s, a lot of elected officials were against that. of course, it is unimaginable in the democratic party, in particular these days, to not stand for marriage equality. of course, the vice president always stood for it. the bottom line is, people evolve. public servants evolve. i think you want somebody in office who is willing to take a hard look at the issues and be open-minded when it comes to where they stand. the more they learn about an issue and, by the way, the more the issue also esol ofs. >> i guess the concern is she's saying these things to get elected and will go back to her previous positions if president. safe to say she'll stay where she is right now? >> absolutely safe to say that, willie. no doubt. she made that very clear on the debate stage tuesday night. she's evolved on some positions,

but when it comes to where she stands on the issues that matter to the american people, her values remain the same. those have been unchanged her entire career. when she was a prosecutor, when she was attorney general of california, when she was united states senator, and obviously as vice president. she's the most prepared, most qualified to be the president of the united states, and she's made it very clear where her values stand. i think if you are anyone who tuned into that debate, even if you are a trump supporter, it is really hard to look at the debate and say, i don't know what? i don't know who she's fighting for, me or herself. it's very clear who she's fighting for, and that's the american people. she's putting their priorities first, and that came across clearly on the debate stage tuesday night. >> adrienne, as we've been covering for years now, donald trump has a very fervent following of supporters who will stay with him through thick and thin, i'll put it lightly. but what's your message to those voters, some of who may have been a little rocked for the first time when he made that

comment about dogs and cats? that was easily googled to be, you know -- i'm just wondering, is there an opportunity to speak to trump supporters and to say, look, we're offering you something different? what would that be? >> first of all, i think jon meacham said this on your show or on msnbc recently, where he basically said, you know, would you trust somebody who, you know, made these dog-eating comments with the nuclear codes of this country? that encapsulates, you know, where we stand and where a lot of voters stand. in the way we've approached this, the way she's approached this, sort of looking at trump with this weird look, like i don't know what you're talking about. i don't really understand what that means. again, pivot her message back to fighting for the american people, making it very clear what her plan is, to lower costs for families, making it very clear what her plan is to expand reproductive freedom, and drawing the contrast with trump. the fact that no matter what he tries to do, he stands with

project 2025. a lot of people who used to work for him helped craft that policy. what would project 2025, the blueprint, look like if implemented into law? that was a contrast you heard loud and clear on the debate stage tuesday night from the vice president, while also laying out her own vision. and i think, you know, look, she made it very clear, if you support donald trump, if you support vice president harris, she is going to fight for you no matter who you are supporting in this race. that is what her focus is. she wants to expand opportunities for middle class families and for all americans. it was very obvious, you know, a point she made time and time again on the debate stage on tuesday night. i think that's something you're going to continue to hear us say time and time again on this campaign trail. the new way forward is kind of the thing that we look at every issue, everything we talk about in this campaign, we look at it under the umbrella of a new way forward. we have a tour this weekend with surrogates on the campaign trail.

obviously the vice president, governor walz are traveling from state to state talking about her economic vision, talking about her plan to lower costs for families, under the umbrella of a new way forward. that's what you'll hear us talk about time and time again. >> i have a question about the money. $47 million more just since the debate. last i heard, your campaign has something like $400 million in the bank, i guess $450 million now. i know you can't have too much money this day and age. >> that is a fact, mm-hmm. >> but maybe you could have enough. the campaign has already given $25 million to down ballot races, but i'm curious as to whether having expanded the presidential map, whether vice president harris is considering trying to expand, like, the senate map, for example. you have texas where allred is within a couple of points of senator ted cruz. you have florida where debbie

powell is within a couple points or tied with rick scott. according to polls. so is there any thought to maybe spreading the wealth a little to some of these senate candidates and trying to expand that map? >> look, the vice president understands that her success as president, if she wins this election, is going to be contingent on having a majority in the house and senate that's led by democrats. that's one of the reasons we made historic investments in some of the down ballot races. look, you know, eugene, when you look at some of the races in the states that we're playing in, the competitive states that will decide this election, the blue wall, north carolina, georgia, arizona, and in nevada, there are a lot of competitive races, both at the senate and house level, and then, obviously, the state and local level, too. the investments we're making in these states will inevitably help some of the down ballot candidates. but, again, you know, if she

wants to get her agenda passed in congress to lower costs for the american people, to expand economic opportunities, to protect reproductive freedoms, she needs to make sure she has the people who share her vision and share her values, and in making sure we have a democratic majority in the house and senate is critically important to accomplishing those goals. >> senior spokesperson and adviser for the harris campaign, adrienne elrod, thanks. always great to have you with us. >> thanks, willie. absentee ballots were supposed to be going out today in the state of north carolina to more than 146,000 voters who requested them. now, those voters will have to wait several more weeks because the north carolina supreme court ruled on monday the state must remove robert f. kennedy jr.'s name from the millions of ballots already printed. rfk jr. sued to have his name removed after ending his presidential campaign and endorsed donald trump. now, local governments across the state will have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to reprint those ballots without

rfk jr.'s name. let's bring in the democratic party's nominee for governor in north carolina and the state's attorney general, josh stein. mr. stein, thanks for being with us this morning. can you help our viewers understand what exactly happened with the ballots there and how it may impact the voting in your state? >> yeah. the candidate, rfk jr., wanted to be on the ballot. the state board of elections concluded that he didn't meet the legal requirements. then he fought to get on and successfully did get on the ballot. then, later, decides that it's in the interest of donald trump for him to remove himself from the ballot, after the ballots had already been printed and were being ready to ship. we mail our ballots out earlier than almost any other state in the country because we want to make it easy for people to vote by mail if that's how they choose to cast their ballots. the state has to go through the process of reprinting all these ballots. it's going to slow things down.

we will, i'm sure, comply with federal law, the ballots be mailed out 45 days in advance to help our military men and women service members be able to participate in our elections, as well. >> this is effectively rfk jr. in service of donald trump, who he's now supporting. doesn't want to peel votes away from him. now the ballots have to be reprinted. we'll keep an eye on that. i want to ask about the events you spoke and attended yesterday, two in your state of north carolina yesterday, for vice president kamala harris. if you can speak to what you're seeing on the ground in north carolina in terms of enthusiasm and the size of crowds, and also how you think the dynamic of this race in north carolina has changed since president biden stepped aside and vice president kamala harris moved to the top of the ticket. >> the energy, the enthusiasm, the excitement, it is real. i've done town halls in small towns, goldsboro, leyland, and the crowds are very impressive

in the middle of the day. people are excited. and then yesterday, it was the same thing just writ large. i think there were 25,000 people charlotte and greensboro who showed up. i had the opportunity to speak at both rallies. the excitement is unbelievable. i think vice president harris is going to win north carolina. but, of course, i'm laser focused on making sure we have a democratic governor here in north carolina, and i'm locked in a tight battle against one of the most radical statewide elected extremists in the country. and the voters have an incredibly clear choice in my governor's race, just as they do at the presidential. i have to keep working hard to make sure voters have the information they need about my fighting for them, my focusing on issues like strong schools, safe neighborhoods, and an economy that's growing and works for everyone, and where their personal freedoms are protected. women's right to an abortion. if we do our jobs well, if we

educate voters, i am convinced they will make the right choice. so if folks out there want to learn more, help, make phone calls, contribute, joshstein.org. >> general, michael steele here. good to see you this morning. >> thank you. >> you talk about your gubernatorial opponent in the lieutenant governor, robinson. to say he is a little bit of a gas fly would be an understatement. but the race is one that has a lot of dynamics to it. one of the more interesting dynamics that i took note of was a recent poll that was out by wral, news poll of 676 likely voters. that's important to note. north carolina voters. what struck me about the poll is not the fact you're at 51%, which is good for you. but what was interesting was

you're pulling conservatives, conservative republicans to your side of the equation. talk a little bit about the dynamics of your race and why you're seeing the kind of shift among the likely voters, the voting population there, towards your brand of leadership versus what they have with the current lieutenant governor. >> first of all, polls go up and polls go down. we expect this race to tighten up in the end. north carolina races, they're just always close. i think this one is going to be, as well. but if you talk about issues that matter to people's lives, whether it's good schools or safe neighborhoods, a health care system that's accessible and affordable, these are issues that are not democratic issues. they are not republican issues. they are north carolina issues. if you focus on that, instead of what mark robinson does, which is focus on job-killing culture

wars, where he says awful things about people, calls public schoolteachers wicked. he said gay people are filth. just a couple weeks ago, recently in the summer, he said from a church pulpit that some folks need killing. that kind of language, that kind of orientation will be death to our economic growth here in north carolina. and people know that. they want to have a future where their kids have a better chance of a better life. mark robinson doesn't provide that for them. our campaign is about serving all in north carolina. it's a campaign for democrats, of course, but also independents and republicans. >> north carolina attorney general and democratic nominee for governor, josh stein, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> take care. still ahead on "morning joe," one of our next guests is taking a look at the rise of

authoritarian and how fascists rewrite the past to control the future. that important conversation is next on "morning joe." we'll be right back.

announcer: kamala harris was given one important job as vice president - monitor and control our southern border. how did she do? did she take the job seriously? did she do all she could to protect american citizens from an invasion? did she do anything at all? lester: you haven't been to the border. harris: and i haven't been to europe. i don't understand the point that you're making. announcer: here's her grim score card: murders, rapes, attacks on children. a 12-year-old girl in texas. a mother of five in maryland. a nursing student in georgia. all savagely murdered by those biden and harris let into our country unlawfully. harris: we have a secure border.

announcer: kamala harris was and is a complete failure at her job. now she's asking us for a promotion. who in their right mind would give it to her? restoration pac is responsible for the content of this advertising.

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prime minister of hungary, they said, why is the whole world blowing up? three years ago, it wasn't. why is it blowing up? he said, because you need trump back as president. they were afraid of him. china was afraid. i don't like to use the word afraid, but i'm quoting him. china was afraid of him. north korea was afraid of him. vktor orban said it. he said the most respected, most feared person is donald trump. we had no problems when trump was president. >> that was donald trump at tuesday's debate, singing the praises in an angry way of hungarian prime minister viktor orban. trump and his maga allies have long been fans of orban's undemocratic policies, particularly his promotion of christian nationalism in hungary's once independent education system. the global far-right's attack on education is one of the topics

discussed in the new book entitled, "erasing history, how fascists rewrite the past to control the future." and the book's author, jason stanley, joins us now. he is the professor of philosophy at yale university. it's great to have you on. in the book, you emphasize the importance of an independent education system in a functioning democracy. you write, in part, this, exposing a nation to the complex history of its past is not just a form of protection against fascists and demagogues, it is also, as my father would say, as essential prerequisite for civic compassion. democracy requires a common shared reality, including a common understanding of the past. civic compassion furthers that understanding. without such an understanding, one cedes power to hierarchy or, potentially, an autocrat. democracy is an ideal.

it is an ideal in which every citizen has political equality rooted in the recognition of all people's full humanity. and realizing the ideal of political equality is impossible without understanding -- without an understanding of who has been denied it and why. i would love for you to speak further on that excerpt. also, i'd like to point out that the republican candidate for president here, donald trump, is a constant rewriter of history. he does it in real time. he does it about covid. he does it about january 6th, about crime, and wants to pardon the people who were convicted of crimes at our nation's capitol, interfering with our process. he even is rewriting history on the debate. tell us your thoughts on that in light of this book.

>> yeah, so i wrote the book because i wanted to solve a certain puzzle. why do those who seek to attack democracy always centrally target schools and universities? why do they try to erase the history of social movements? why do they try to erase certain perspectives? of course, as we're seeing with donald trump right now, it's probably easy to see, why do they want to replace their own fake versions of history with what actually happened? nazi textbooks replaced the actual history of world war i, with the fake history that jews somehow betrayed germany. it wasn't a military loss but a betrayal of germany by jews. similarly, donald trump wants to replace the actual history of the 2021 election with the lie it was a betrayal. then he goes back to the fake history that was taught under

the jim crow south, that black majority cities or cities with black populations and black politicians were somehow corrupt. so this was the fake story taught in american history for many decades. so we have that fake history being reignited by trump. oh, atlanta, detroit, philadelphia, the politicians, the voters here are corrupt. well, that's fake history from our past. we're seeing that fake history resuscitated at the same time and by the same people who are attacking our voting systems with the biggest lie of all, perhaps, which is that there is a significant problem of voter fraud. somehow created by these cities with large minority populations, or immigrants are somehow savages who eat cats. yet, at the same time, get it together to vote en masse

fraudulently in elections. that is an entire lie. it is entirely being created as we speak, and it is done in order to justify, essentially, cracking down. not essentially, but cracking down on voters, intimidating minority voters so they don't appear at the polls. >> professor, good morning. tuesday night, we heard it again from donald trump when asked directly about the 2020 election. he said, no, i won the election. rewriting the history and perhaps planting the seeds again for whatever he is going to do if he loses this year. if he loses in november. it's also been disturbing to watch in recent years the elevation of people, partly because of donald trump and people who support him on podcasts and different personalities, rewriting the history of, for example, the second world war. this happened a couple of weeks ago when an alleged historian said, no, actually, churchill was the great villain of world

war ii, which is to say, things we all know to be true, things we know as a matter of gospel, that were horrific,century, even those are sort of being rewritten by people. what is the objective when someone does something like that? >> that's exactly what we're seeing right now. we're seeing it not just in the united states but, horrifyingly, we're seeing it in germany right now. the far-right party, one of the most popular parties right now in germany, the candidate is running on a platform of saying the nazis weren't all bad. this was inevitable in u.s. politics. because you can point out, it's so obvious, the kind of politics we're seeing, the vilification of immigrants as vermin, as rats, as an existential threat to white christian dominance. the lgbt, the book bannings,

it's similar to germany. the early '30s in nazi germany is well before the holocaust. what we're seeing, we see clear parallels. it is inevitable that people will go back right now and say, oh, maybe the nazis weren't so bad. because they're employing these nazi tactics. they're employing these nazi tactics against the targets of the nazis, against our national minorities, against immigrants, principally, which was a central target of the nazis, as well as their national minorities, and against lgbt people and perspectives who are being represented as obscene and pornographic, lgbt perspectives. these are the targets of the nazis. it is necessary to go back and revise the history, and say the people whose targets and tactics

are being imitated were not so bad as you thought. >> the new book, "erasing history, how fascists rewrite the past to control the future," is on sale now. author jason stanley, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> all right. take care. "the new york times" is reporting president biden is on the verge of permitting ukraine to use long-range western weapons inside russia. provided the weapons aren't supplied by the united states. speaking to a state television reporter yesterday, president putin said a provision to allow the escalation would, quote, change the very nature of the conflict, and mean that nato countries are at war with russia. joining us now, senior writer at bloomberg news and bloomberg business week, stephanie baker. she's the author of "punishing putin, inside the global economic war to bring down

russia." stephanie, great time to have you on. perfect timing for this book. what do you make of this potential decision by president biden, and what risks does it pose? >> i think for the ukrainians, they'll say it is long overdue if it does go ahead. they've been asking for this for months, if not longer. and it could prove pivotal in the war. but i think it's consistent with the west's response to russia's invasion, which has been very slow and not fast enough to keep up with the pace of events on the ground. as i show in my book, the pace of economic sanctions was slow and only gradually ramped up, much like military aid. you know, the ukrainians were asking for tanks, then f-16s, and then it was just very gradually that the biden administration responded. much like with the economic sanctions that have only been

really ramped up with tightened enforcement recently. >> yeah. then, again, putin's response if this threat comes through. he talks about the change in the nature of the conflict and that we will take the appropriate decision space on the threats we face. what are the potential outcomes here beyond the fact that the ukrainians will be very happy because they will feel this is long overdue, but why has it taken so long to get to a decision like this? what are the risks? >> well, putin has threatened, you know, with nuclear saber-rattling ever since the war began, that if you cross this red line, you know, who knows what might happen? the fact of the matter is, at each and every turn, his red lines have been crossed and there has been no response. the f-16s have been provided. the incursion into russian

territory and kursk, the first time an army has been occupying russian territory since world war ii, this was a major red line crossed, and putin did not respond with any tactical nuclear weapons. i think it shows that his rhetoric is not living up to reality. that the west shouldn't be cowed into a meek response to the war. both in terms of the economic response as well as the military response. >> stephanie, we were talking about the military response there. let's talk about the economic response which is the focus of your book, "punishing putin." the united states, western europe, all of europe, in fact, nato countries getting together to put extraordinary economic pressure on vladimir putin in the hopes that it would scale back what he's doing in ukraine. has it worked over the last couple of years? obviously, there are oligarchs in russia who can weather all of

that because they have unlimited funds, but does putin feel any of the pressure that has been applied to him, to the point where it could impact the way he prosecutes the war? >> right. it's a really good question. but i do like to ask people, define what quote, unquote, working means? if working means have the sanctions driven him out of ukraine, clearly they have not worked. but if working means, have they cost russia a significant amount of money and meaningful cost, yes, they have worked. could they work better? yes, they could work a lot better with tougher enforcement. i mean, the book, my book, "punishing putin," goes into these deliberations in washington about how to limit putin's revolutions, how to cap his petro dollars. the central challenge facing russia is how to limit putin's revenues to impact his ability to fund the war.

until the u.s. and europe can figure out a way to drive down putin's oil revenues, it'll be very hard to stop his ability to fund the war. there's been a lot more happening on this front, which i tell in the book. really dramatic stories about everything from western companies after the invasion trying to decide what do they do? do they stay? do they go? a lot of them have had their assets taken over and seized by the kremlin. putin has handed those assets out to his cronies. i go into the russian oligarchs trying to scramble to save their fortunes. the book really shows that the sanctions are not a great way to achieve regime change. if they are enforced more rigorously, they could impact his ability to fund the war. you do see the russian economy beginning to slow down. it's suffering from high inflation, high interest rates to cool prices, and a shortage of labor. i mean, the biggest challenge facing russia right now is the shortage of manpower, just both

for the defense factories as well as for the meat grinder in ukraine. >> the new book is entitled "punishing putin, inside the global economic war to bring down russia." senior writer at bloomberg news and bloomberg business week, stephanie baker, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. coming up, we'll get an update on the fate of the harris campaign in another key battleground state. the chair of the democratic party in wisconsin is our guest, ahead. plus, thousands of boeing employees are on strike this morning. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin will join us with insight on that. and this morning's other business headlines. before we go to great, willie, drum roll, please, what do you have planned for "sunday today?" >> have a good one cooked up this weekend with the man of the moment in hollywood. mr. ryan reynolds. whose movie "deadpool and wolverine" this summer broke the

hollywood record for the highest grossing r-rated movie in history. $1.2 billion and climbing at this moment. this was his baby, his labor of love. he brought deadpool to the screen in 2016 through a lot of heavy resistance from studios. now, it's become one of the most successful movies of all time. we also talk about something we share, which is fathers with parkinson's disease, a bond we've had over the years. he is doing great work in that regard, as well. a great conversation with ryan reynolds coming up this weekend on "sunday today." we'll be right back to "morning joe" on this friday. ♪ and i am lost and i can't ♪ punch buggy red. ♪ even say why ♪

♪ i am, i said ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm not old enough to vote yet, but i learned how one out of six of us will someday be raped. so please think about me when you vote. i learned how our freedom to have an abortion was taken away... even in cases of rape or incest, even to travel to get an abortion. please think about me. you know who got rid of roe v wade. now women are being refused lifesaving care at hospitals, and politicians are trying to ban birth control. please think about me. my parents call me their miracle daughter because i was born with ivf. but ivf could be banned, too. do they think we're less than human? do they think we can't make decisions? about our own bodies? about our own lives?

when you vote, please think about me. and me. -and me. because the politician who got rid of roe v wade, he couldn't care less. my mental health was better. but uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia, started disrupting my day. td felt embarrassing. i felt like disconnecting. i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. number-one prescribed ingrezza has simple dosing for td: always one pill, once daily. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have a sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings or have thoughts of suicide. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems,

and abnormal movements. report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. sleepiness is the most common side effect. take control by asking your doctor about ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ let me tell you what i learned from being a small child and a small business owner myself. small business owners, you are business leaders, and you are civic leaders.

you are community leaders. you hire locally. you mentor. you are part of the fabric of our communities. and you are the backbone of america's economy. [ applause ] the backbone. so i have a plan for you, and my plan is to give a $50,000 tax deduction for start-up businesses. [ applause ] i understand not everybody likes the person that was on the stage with me the other night. $400 million on a silver platter, then filed for bankruptcy six times. >> that was vice president kamala harris yesterday, drawing the contrast between herself and former president donald trump. joining us now, the chair of the democratic party of wisconsin, ben wickler joins us.

and michael steele, take the first question. >> chairman, good to see you this morning. chairman to chairman here. look, i love this messaging around small businesses. i took note of the fact that the first ben & jerry's was there in wisconsin, and they've got a pint now that's going to be a kamala harris kind of themed pint. so there's clearly a lot of energy around this idea that the vice president is putting forward, about re-engaging american small businesses, to moving the conversation away from wall street and back to main street, where jobs are created. as she noted in the clip, where these business owners are not just business owners, they're community leaders, they're civic leaders. they are mentors. they are people shaping the communities they're living in. how is that messaging going to play as a differentiator in the

importance of this race for the wisconsin identities when they're looking at who they want to vote for. given how close the margins are, we know the polls are showing her in a strong poll position going into the next few weeks. you know how campaigns are. messaging like this can make a difference at the margins, particularly when the numbers are going to be tight. 40,000, 75,000 voters across your state, perhaps michigan, perhaps georgia, making a difference in who wins. >> these messages really resonate. because most wisconsinites live in communities less than 15,000 people. most can probably see a water tower when they're driving down main street. and small businesses on main street are the lifeblood of local economies. whether you're in a bigger city, like a madison or milwaukee, green bay, or you're in a smaller town, you want to know that, as kamala always says, you don't just want to get by, you

want to be able to get ahead. i think for people that are thinking about the future, their aspirations, not just thinking about, you know, how to deal with disasters that might come up, the idea of being able to be your own boss or work for a friend or family member, grow a small business, it really speaks to the heart of the american dream. and it conveys that kamala harris understands our lives, which is a big difference from donald trump. for exactly the reasons the vice president laid out. >> mr. chairman, do you think kamala harris is really making progress, making gains in the small communities? when you think about how a democrat wins wisconsin, you usually think about, you know, rolling up huge numbers in milwaukee, madison, you know, you think about the cities and think about the small towns as pretty republican territory in a closely divided state. is that really going to change this year? >> well, wisconsin is a state where you can only win by

organizing everywhere, in every zip code. if you look across the numbers, the democratic votes from the madison metropolitan area, milwaukee metropolitan area, they only make up one-third of the democratic votes in our state. we work everywhere. it's the reason why governor walz is going to be in wausau, wisconsin, tomorrow, and superior, excuse me. we have huge, huge energy from all over the state. we're not going to win the reddest counties in wisconsin, but wisconsin, north carolina, all these state doing rural organizing. showing up, showing we understand people's lives, their aspirations for freedom, and a life where they can bring their kids back to their communities and they can have thriving careers. that connects and makes up the margin >> that makes up the margin that wins this election. >> chair of the democratic party, thank you so much for

coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. all right. take care. still ahead, our next guest says the top creators of artificial intelligence are ignoring what could be one of the biggest threats to society. well, hear her concerns about the rabidly evolving field. next on "morning joe," we're back in two minutes. ng field next on "morning joe," we're back in two minutes.

welcome back. open ai, the company that launched chatgpt is launching a new series of models that would think like a person would. it all sounds so good. joining us now, bloomberg opinion columnist and former reporter for ""the wall street journal"" and "forbes," the author of the new book entitled ""supremacy."

i can't wait to hear about all this in the book, but i'm worried, like, does the future of humanity boil down to kind of, like, a dramatic rivalry between two men? because if that's the case, i think we're in big trouble. >> well, that's part of it, and i think a lot of people have this fear of what a.i. means. there are images of the terminator robots and people talk about an existential threat to human civilization if a.i. gets too powerful. the one thing i really wanted to point out in my book is that actually what we should probably be more concerned about is something quite a bit closer to home which is that artificial intelligence is developing without enough regulatory oversight, and as this revolution takes hold, it is essentially entrenching and extending the power, wealth, and influence of large technology

conglomerates. i chose to focus on two visionaries as you mentioned, the founder of open a.i., sam altman, and dennis, because they were the ones who sparked the latest a.i. boom through their efforts to create human-level a.i. they wanted to create a.i. as smart as humans. they both started out with very humanitarian goals. dennis wanted to cure cancer, solve climate change. sam wanted to increase the wealth of everyone on earth, like, really galactic ambitions, but a.i. is so expensive to build that over time, those ambitions as altruistic goals faded away, and now the tech is serving the purposes of those companies instead. >> pulling back to one of the first things you said is that it's all growing and sort of exploding without enough oversight. how behind are we? i mean, we talk about globally, right? how does oversight even work?

>> regulation is definitely behind, and that's been the state of play in technology for many years. every time there's a new revolution in tech, whether it's desk top or mobile, or the meta verse, and now a.i., regulators are just scrambling to catch up because the tech moves so quickly, however, i think this is a point where we can see some promise because regulators are moving a little bit faster. the european union has got the a.i. safety act, which -- or the eua.i. act which is quite broad, and and biggest and most ambitious in scope. the only problem is it doesn't really get implemented for another year or so, and we don't know how it's going to work in terms of whether it will hinder. smaller startups or just how effective it will be. so we're still kind of in this wait and see stage. what i wanted to really illustrate through my book is that even the visionaries of this tech, the builders, they knew they needed to have good

governance in place. they tried to start off as nonprofits for example, or spin out as nonprofits, and they both failed. so they had concerns early on that they needed proper governance, and they couldn't make it work. >> wow. you raise a lot of really important questions here. the new book is "supremacy: ai, chatgpt, and the race that will change the world." parmy olson, thank you so much for coming on. still ahead, we'll bring you the latest from the campaign trail. donald trump was in arizona where he continued to push baseless claims about migrants eating pets in ohio, and he did it hatefully. he also announced yesterday whether he would debate again. meanwhile, kamala harris was in north carolina speaking to large, energetic crowds. it comes as her campaign set a new record for donations following her debate with the former president.

we'll get into all of that straight ahead on "morning joe." we'll get into all of that straight ahead on "morning joe." with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium.

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now i'm going to actually do something really unusual and i'm going to invite you to attend one of donald trump's rallies. ♪ young man ♪ ♪ i said, young man ♪ >> it's a really interesting thing to watch. >> women, i won't be following you around to the hospital, monitoring. >> and what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom. >> and by the way, her crowds are zero -- her crowds, she's got no crowds. >> and i will tell you the one thing you will not hear him talk about is you. >> they take in the geese. you know where the geese are in the park, in the lake. and even walking off with their pets. my dog's been taken. >> you will not hear him talk about your needs, your dreams, and your desires. >> i always liked him. i'm not going to watch him anymore. i'm not going to watch him because he's not legit, what he did. i'm not going to watch him.

[ applause ] and his hair's not as good as it used to be, you know? >> i'll tell you, i believe you deserve a president who actually puts you first. >> the parents, mom, there's -- come on, baby. you can do it. you saw it. ugh. can do. she couldn't get it up. >> and i pledge to you that i will. >> my wife hates when i do this. she says it's so unpresidential. >> yeah. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, september 13th, willie. are you ready for the weekend? >> i am. i love his obsession with david muir's hair. he's disappointed that the air's gotten worse, implying that he used to think david muir has great hair, went on at some length about that. fascinating. >> does he really want to be talking, like, about hair? i don't know. and then the weave, i don't know. it seems to me that right now,

the big story is the fact that he doesn't want to debate again. i would love to get your thoughts on this. >> yep. >> it seems to me they could have waited a week or two, but he must have been so traumatized by being so badly beaten, that he just wanted to get it out of his mind that he would ever have to be on stage again with kamala harris. >> yeah. i mean, he objectively got blown out of the room at that debate three nights ago. >> yeah. >> he knows that. his advisers know that. republicans who support him generally have said that on television. fox news hosts are saying that. he knows he got creamed, and so now he's framing it as the debate was unfair to me. the moderators were too mean. i'm not going to do that again. he doesn't want to get back in the ring with vice president kamala harris. that's the truth. so as you said, donald trump officially now is backing out of a second debate with the vice president, despite previously claiming he would participate in one more debate with harris, the former president said yesterday during that rally in arizona that because he, quote, won on tuesday night, he doesn't need

another one. >> but when a prized fighter loses a fight -- you've seen a lot of fights, right? the first words out of that fighter's mouth is, i want a rematch. i want a rematch, and that's what she said. i want a rematch. polls literally show that i won the debate against comrade kamala harris. she went over to abc, which in my opinion, has taken a big hit because these two people were bad news. they kept screaming at me. i said, why are you screaming? i'm saying to myself, i'm looking -- i always liked him. i'm not going to watch him anymore. i'm not going to watch him because he's not legit, what he did. i'm not going to watch him. [ applause ] and his hair's not as good as it used to be, you know? so because we've done two debates and because they were successful, there will be no third debate. [ applause ]

it's too late anyway, the voting's already begun. you got to go out and vote. we got to vote. >> so north carolina, two nights ago, donald trump and i had our debate. [ cheers and applause ] you watched it? did you watch it? and look. i believe we owe it to have another debate. [ cheers and applause ] right? we owe it to the voters. because here's the thing. in this election, what's at stake could not be more important. >> that's kamala harris, willie, on the road in front of yet another massive crowd despite what donald trump says, and

here's the problem with everything donald trump said in those sound bites. how many people watched the debate? i think it was a pretty big number, like, 70 million or something across multiple networks. >> yeah. >> and so we don't have to actually say, oh. he's lying. let's fact check that. everyone saw it. everyone saw it. everyone knows that he's lying. >> yeah, and he likes that boxing metaphor about a rematch. somehow framing that as how he won. he doesn't need another one. i think the more apt boxing metaphor is he just got his butt kicked in the third or fourth round and he's deciding not to come back out for the next round where kamala harris is standing in the middle of the ring saying, let's do it again. he wants none of it. let's continue the conversation with the co-hosts of msnbc's "the weekend," michael steele, pulitzer prize-winning columnist, eugene robinson, and editor at "the bullwork," sam

stein. michael, i'll start with you. your take as someone who worked in politics for all of his adult life about what it means when someone suddenly declaresthey don't want another debate? >> yeah. when you come out and try to frame this the way donald trump is framing it after we saw what we saw, right? it's not like this is what you only heard on radio or you didn't tune in and missed it. no. a lot of people saw this. we know he's lying. we know he got -- not just got stung. he got knocked down, and he got knocked down in such a way that he could not get up. so basically what you have is the -- to keep this boxing metaphor going, the guy on the mat looking up with one hand up in the air, trying to get up off the floor saying, i don't want anymore. no mas, and it's very clear why, because he recognized from the very beginning of that debate,

and for me, willie, it was the moment she walked over and shook his hand. she threw him off his game in that moment because he had no intentions of shaking her hand. he was not going to be the gentleman, to go to the center of the ring if you will, and shake your opponent's hand, and to begin the conversation, but she -- she did him one better, went over to him, and introduced herself, kamala harris. and from that moment, he was not the same. she started off a little rocky, but she found her footing very quickly on issue after issue, and the only thing he was reduced to was talking about ducks and cats, and whining about the fact that, you know, she was lying about his crowd size. if that's the -- that is the -- basically the essence of the debate for donald trump. so yes. he's on the mat on the floor

saying i don't want to more. god bless you, donald, because when you get up, she's going to hit you again, and she's ready, and i think the country is ready for her to continue do that because i think i heard mika say at some point earlier this week, we're just exhausted. and i think we're done with all of this, and she has become -- as donald trump was the avatar for grievance and regression and look backwards, she's now the avatar for looking forward and hope and people see that there is something ahead that they can move towards as opposed to staying stuck where we are. >> kudos to you, michael steele, for taking our extended boxing metaphor to the roberto duran and sugar ray leonard fight with no mas. nicely done. we saw donald trump at his rally in arizona talking about dogs and cats and geese and david muir's hair. >> yep. >> and then cut to two raucous,

crowded events, despite what donald trump keeps saying for kamala harris. just trust your eyes. is there a big crowd there? are they enthusiastic, and excited? yes. the answer is yes, and how gleeful the vice president was when talking about the debate. the smile on her face, because she too knows how it went in that room in philadelphia on tuesday night. >> yeah. she had two rallies in north carolina yesterday. one was, like, 7,500 people. the other was 17,500 people or something like that. they were huge, and they were raucous. they were enthusiastic. they were full of joy. they were exactly what trump and his camp most fear. look. this debate was -- we'll see if it was a real turning point in

this election, but it was certainly a moment. a moment that can only be good for kamala harris, a moment that can only be bad for donald trump, and i imagine that his staff when he said, okay. maybe we don't do another debate, i imagine they encouraged him, okay. okay. send that out. say that today because -- put it, you know, let's -- >> yeah. >> -- eliminate the possibility of another debate because how could they stand another one of those? another beatdown like that, i just don't -- >> right. >> i don't see it. >> you know, not overtly trying to be mocking because these are really serious times. nobody made that more clear than kamala harris did on the debate stage, but one final note about the debate, i mean, it really was no joke here. it was the wizard of oz, finally at the end, when the curtain is pulled back.

his act was dismantled by her face alone, and also everything that she said in front of so many people. it's going to be very hard for the former president to convince anybody except for diehard maga who don't -- the types of people who will follow him to anywhere. it's going to be very hard for him to convince most americans that he had a modicum of sense, and had any hits during that debate. he was the loser, and for the first time, everyone -- everyone at the same time saw it. the wizard of oz. so let's talk more about the vice president's rallies in north carolina yesterday as we mentioned. she received a raucous reception, huge crowd last night inside the greensboro coliseum complex. [ cheers and applause ]

that was the roar from 17,000 people, when she took the stage. the vice president recapped the debate and pushed one of her core messages of her campaign. on tuesday night, i talked about issues that i'm no-- i know matter across america. small businesses, protecting reproductive freedom. [ cheers and applause ] and keeping our nation safe and secure. but that's not what we heard from donald trump. instead, you know, and i called

him at the beginning of the debate. it was the same old show. same old tired playbook we've heard for years, with no plan for how he would address the needs of the american people. well, folks, look. it's time to turn the page. >> prior to greensboro, the vice president spoke to 7,500 voters at an event in charlotte where people began gathering in line several hours before the start time. once the rally kicked off, harris highlighted the flood of republican endorsements that she has recently received. >> over 200 people who worked for president george h.w. bush, president george w. bush, john mccain, and mitt romney have endorsed me for president. former vice president dick cheney and congresswoman liz

cheney are supporting me as well. [ cheers and applause ] because as they said, we have a duty as citizens to put country above partisanship and defend our constitution. >> i would on that point, i mean, it's overwhelming, sam stein, her crowds, which is something trump talked about. he got so -- i mean, he fell for it. it was painful to watch how quickly he fell for kamala harris kind of making fun of his rallies in a very real and realistic way, but he talks about hannibal lecter and makes up crap, and just throws it out there and really speaks about nothing, but most importantly, does not talk about you, the american people, and what he can do for the american people, but even more so, he was very rattled about crowd size, saying that nobody comes to her rallies, and so again, if anyone wants to check, i mean, those

17,000 people at one rally alone yesterday, and they were going wild, but to a point she was making about the 200 republicans who are endorsing her, i do think there's a decision to be made by former president george w. bush and others that are very high-level republicans, and if they truly believe that donald trump is a threat to democracy, but if they also truly believe that there is a republican party to be saved, that there is a republican party to be rebuilt, that there is a republican party that should be a part of this democracy that we live in, isn't the only way to go at this point -- is to endorse kamala harris and let the republican party rebuild? >> i mean, very, very good questions. first on the rally size, you know, trump will probably respond by alleging that this is all a.i.-generated, right? and that this can't possible ly

be real. secondarily, on the issue of republicans supporting harris, first, it was a little bit disorienting, i've got to be honest, to see a massive stadium filled with democrats, cheering the mention of dick cheney. 20 years ago, that would have been unfathomable, but we're in a very weird, disorienting time, and mika, i think you bring up the right question. do certain republicans who we presume or know don't like donald trump, want him to fail, do they feel a moral obligation to not just say they're not voting against trump, but to make the affirmative case -- >> to stand up -- >> to say they're voting for harris? dick and liz cheney did that. alberto gonzalez yesterday did that. the question on the mind of people at the bullwork is, will people we presume, george w. bush, condoleezza rice, will those people come out and say,

in fact, it's good for both the republic and the republican party to see harris win. good for the republican party in that we need to have a saner version of the republican party and the only way that that can happen is if we prove that trump finally and fully is a loser. >> yeah. i mean, and by the way, donald trump's not a republican. like, if everybody just really looked at the reality of donald trump, the person leading the republican party right now is anything but a republican, and will throw away any issue if it doesn't serve you personally, even abortion, but he's already done so much damage on that, that i would like to point out, willie, but democrats supporting kamala, clapping about dick cheney, i can tell you -- i know personally that there are some republicans in those crowds. republican women, especially are gathering together. >> sure. >> and going to kamala harris rallies, and as her campaign and kamala harris will tell you, they are welcome to be there.

>> yeah. republicans for harris is what the campaign calls it, and let's not forget that group of nikki haley voters that are potentially up for grabs that say, they cannot abide donald trump, and they need to be convinced that kamala harris is the choice. i will say that sam and i are living in the same head space. i watched that clip and i thought, my god. go back to 2004, and an arena full of democrats cheering for darth vader himself, dick cheney, who was the arch villain. >> yes. >> of american politics according to democrats. it's an extraordinary time for sure. so during that arizona rally yesterday as we said, donald trump continued to push that baseless claim that migrants from haiti are eating pets in springfield, ohio. >> there's a place called springfield, ohio that you have been reading about. 20,000 illegal haitian immigrants have descended upon the town of 58,000 people, destroying their entire way of

life. this was a beautiful community, and now it's horrible, what's happened. enrollment of the state's medicaid, and motor vehicle accidents have skyrocketed recording op 911 calls even show residents are reporting that the migrants are walking off with the town's geese. they're taking the geese. you know where the geese are in the park in the lake. and even walking off with their pets. my dog's been taken. my dog's been stolen. this can only happen -- these people are the worst. as the people of arizona understand better than anyone else, under kamala harris, our country is under a thing called invasion. did you ever hear the word invasion? just like a military -- it's like a military invasion. we are being conquered and we are being occupied by a foreign element.

>> officials in springfield, ohio and the republican governor of ohio, mike dewine, again say there is absolutely no evidence of haitian immigrants, not illegal immigrants, haitian immigrants abusing pets. many of those migrants as they say are here legally under temporary, protected status. meanwhile the mayor of springfield says the city received a bomb threat that used hateful language against the migrant and specifically the haitian community. yesterday's threat led to the evacuation of city hall, two schools, and the local motor vehicle agency. mayor rob hugh telling "the washington post," his city needs help and not the hate that's being spread by some political leaders. so it's easy to laugh, michael steele, at all of the dog and cat and geese eating that's coming out of the mouth of donald trump, but all the memes that he's posting. he's leaning into it. he thinks he's got a winner here, but also it has real world implications for people in

springfield, ohio, for haitian immigrants who are here legally, and for people of color across the country. >> no. it absolutely does. there are -- there are some real ramifications here that extend well beyond the jokes, and i think, you know, it's time we hold donald trump responsible for this. he is -- he's being deliberate in what he's saying. he's been told what the truth is, not just by his campaign, but by officials of both the city and the state, and that state official happens to be a fellow republican. so this is not some democrat trying to do politics on the subject. there -- if someone is harmed or injured and bomb threats are being called in, there are idiots who are following this man who will take action because they believe donald trump.

when you use terms like, there is a military invasion by these individuals, by these others, you will have people who will respond to that, and it rests on donald trump's lips and on his hands what happens. and we just can't sugar coat this. yeah, there are some great memes and jokes for sure, but this very quickly turns the corner of becoming serious for the people who live in that community, and for haitians not just in that community, but in other communities around the country, and, you know, we just -- it just -- i don't know. i get frustrated and yet at the same time, confused by -- >> yeah. >> -- how something like this takes off the way it does, and that people think so little of their fellow human beings to believe something as insidious and stupid -- and stupid as

this. coming up, perhaps the most critical trial of this election season does not involve donald trump. lisa rubin will explain ahead on "morning joe." will explaihanahn "morning joe." hi, my name is damian clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible

special needs plan. all these plans include a healthy options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. and our large networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. so, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. humana. a more human way to healthcare. a trial date has been set in the case against the georgia

election board. the state recently passed two controversial measures regarding election integrity, which require election officials to conduct a, quote, reasonable inquiry into election results before certifying them. they also allow county board members to look at, quote, election-related documentation created during an election. the trial for the case will begin october 1st, and will be livestreamed online. joining us now, former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin. lisa, great to see you again. you're calling this the most critical trial this election season doesn't involve trump, this one. explain for us the lawsuit that's led to this trial and maybe why people should watch it on livestream. >> yeah, mika. people should watch this because even though donald trump is not involved, it is all about him. this is an effort by three members on this georgia election board who are each appointed by different constituencies in

georgia to throw some of the rules and permit discretion in the certification process with respect to county election results, and if those two rules that you just described are allowed to stand, the fear is that certain counties in georgia will not report their results by november 12th as many people including secretary of state brad raffensperger believe is absolutely mandatory under the statute, and then thinking from there, if they don't report their results from the 12th, it may be an effort to also prevent the entire state of georgia from reporting its results and thereby its state of electors, and i want to clarify for you and some of our viewers, what would happen in that instance. we all know there's a certain number of votes to win the electoral college, but under a new 2022 statute, if a state doesn't report its slate of

electors, you essentially subtract that state's electoral votes from the total. georgia has 16 electoral votes. this may be an attempt to deprive one of the candidates of a victory here by taking georgia's 16 votes off the table and skewing the results accordingly. >> lisa, that's so well explained. it's really important for people to understand because there is the rhetoric that comes from donald trump already laying the groundwork to question the outcome of the election in november should he lose, but then there is the work being done down on the state level to actually carry that out in a way that would be different from 2020 in a way that they were unable to do then. is there -- are there versions of what we're seeing in georgia taking place across the country as well as some of those republicans, those maga republicans that look to sort of see the ground to stall at the very least, the results coming in? >> well, i would say yes and no, willie. on one hand, delayed certification in georgia is the new fake elector. we have yet to see -- >> yeah. >> -- efforts that sort of

duplicate what is going on in georgia here. it's only one part of a two-part scheme. the first part are these wide spread challenges to voter registration roles to take people out of the equation, people they think would vote for vice president harris, and that we're seeing in places all over the country from michigan and arizona, to ohio, to texas. efforts to sort of change the composition of who's entitled to vote in the first place, and then if at first, you don't succeed, you delay that certification. coming up, we'll go live to the white house as president biden spotlights the 30th anniversary of the violence against women act. the first lady's communications director, elizabeth alexander joins the discussion when "morning joe" comes right back public when "morning joe" comes right back public have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further! safe step's best offer, just got better! now, when you purchase your brand new safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package. yes, a free shower package!

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former secretary of state, hillary clinton has a new book coming up and "morning joe" has an exclusive first look at one key part of it. the book entitled "something lost, something gained:reflections on life, love, and liberty" comes out. clinton was recording the audiobook when news broke that president biden had dropped out of the race for the white house. she decided to record her first reaction to that monumental shift in presidential politics as an epilogue to the audio version. "morning joe" has now an exclusive excerpt of that epilogue. take a listen. >> on july 21, 2024, when joe biden announced he was dropping out of the presidential race and endorsing kamala harris, the dream of seeing a woman in the oval office was suddenly back

within reach. it wouldn't be me, but it could be kamala. history beckonned, but a whole lot of bigotry and disinformation, not to mention the electoral college stood in the way. could we do it? could we finally shatter that highest, hardest glass ceiling, and prove that in america there is no limit to what is possible? when bill and i heard the news that biden was withdrawing and endorsing kamala, we drafted a joint statement saluting him and also endorsing her. she is talented, experienced, and ready to be president. so it was an easy decision. after our statement went public, kamala called us. she was remarkably calm for someone who had just been thrown into the deep end of a bottomless pool. she told us she wanted to earn

the nomination. i'm going to need your help, she said. we'll do whatever you need, i told her. bill and i were both ready to do everything we could to help get her elected. history is full of cautionary tales, but 2024 is not 2016. trump's victory then and the ugliness of his presidency woke up a lot of people. there's less complacency now about the strength of our democracy and more consciousness of the threats posed by disinformation, demagoguery, and implicit bias. some people have asked how i feel about the prospect of another woman poised to achieve the breakthrough i didn't. if i'm being honest in the years after 2016, i also wondered how i would feel if another woman ever took the torch that i had carried so far and ran on with

it. would some little voice deep down inside whisper, that should have been me? now i know the answer. after i got off the phone with the vice president, i looked at bill with a huge smile and said, this is exciting. i felt promise. i felt possibility. it was exhilarating. when i imagined kamala standing before the capitol next january taking the oath of office as our first woman president, my heart leaps. after hard years of division, it will prove that our best days are still ahead, and that we are making progress on our long journey toward a more perfect union, and it will make such a difference in the lives of hardworking people everywhere. for now, thinking about this momentous period, i find myself

turning back to where this book began. as joni mitchell sang all those years ago, "something's lost, but something's gained." democrats have lost our standard bearer. we will miss joe biden's steady leadership, deep empathy, and fighting spirit. he is a wise and decent man who served our country well. yet we have gained much too, a new champion, an invigorated campaign, and a renewed sense of purpose. >> you know, we're going to hear from former secretary clinton when she joins us next thursday right here on "morning joe," and willie, you know, you could see the joy, the clintons had, especially hillary clinton in the fact that kamala harris had the torch passed to her, and how quickly they endorsed her. the obamas and others took a few days and set it up right, not

that they were thinking about it, like, whether or not, but they prepared. the clintons just came out as fast as they could tweet and one of the many reasons is hillary clinton is a huge part of why this moment is possible, and secondly, i think a lot of people felt a lot of buyer's remorse when it comes to trump. when you look at the things hillary clinton said during the debates, during her speeches, during in the run up to the election of donald trump, she was right on so many levels. so there's a lot there, and it all adds up to, yes. joy, this possibility that kamala harris, an african american woman, can beat donald trump and become president of the united states. >> yes. secretary clinton endorsed vice president harris very quickly, and, in fact, in these last couple of months, has been an adviser to kamala harris. if you talk to people around the campaign, there is no one else

on this planet right now who can understand what kamala harris is going through running against -- as a woman, running against donald trump. what is it like to run against him? >> yeah. >> she has been close counsel to her on that. it's been widely reported and the campaign has said so as well privately that kamala harris is really leaning on hillary clinton as she moves forward. coming up, how undecided voters are sizing up this week's presidential debate. jeremy peters joins us with his latest reporting in the "new york times" when "morning joe" returns. e "new york times" when "morning joe" returns.

coming up, our next guest says this moment showed donald trump's routine sexism coming back to bite him during the presidential debate. >> she was big on defund the police. in minnesota, she went out -- wait a minute. i'm talking now.

if you don't mind, please. does that sound familiar? pleas. does that sound familiar question. if you can't see what's behind all this, >> molly jung-fast joins us with her opinion piece straight ahead on "morning joe." her opinion piece straight ahead on "morning joe. a jeep wrangler... is getting away. yep! or if it takes you places that make you say, woah. and their hair looks like this. or someone says, the doors come off. then you just know what it was. what it is. and what it always will be. because when you're an original, there's only one. mom where's my homework? mommy! hey hun - sometimes, you just need a moment. self-care has never been this easy.

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♪♪ you know our next guest from a number of his classic films including "clerks," "mall rats," "chasing amy," and "dogma" just to make a new, and new kevin smith is back with his latest feature titled "the 4:30 movie," set in 1986. the comedy follows three new jersey teenagers as they attempt to make the most of their summer break by sneaking into as many movies as possible. however, even their most thought out plans get interrupted by overbearing parents, crazed

movie theater managers, and teenage rivalries. here now is part of the trailer. >> may 25, 1986. today is a big day. >> last summer, i was too scared to ask out melody. the raddest woman i ever met, but this morning i invited her to the movies and she said -- >> okay. >> seriously? >> hold on one second. ♪♪ cool. i'll see you at the 4:30 movie, melody. >> i'll see you at the 4:30 movie. >> holy [ bleep ], billy idol. when is the white wedding? >> i have been thinking about asking melody out all year. we made out in her pool last summer. >> one time, with your shirt on. and you wonder why you don't get laid. >> i don't get laid because i'm catholic. >> and the writer joins us now. it's good to have you on the show. thank you for coming on. so i have a confession to make. i have snuck into a movie a couple of times. >> i can tell that about you.

i can tell. >> really? >> oh yeah, man. with a dad in politics, there's no way they were giving you money to go to the movies so i figured you were a sneaker. >> and i liked -- i kind of got a rush out of it. >> yeah. of course. it's a low-level crime where, you know -- >> yeah. >> nobody gets hurt. i own a movie theater now. i own the movie theater where we shot that movie and it's in new jersey, and the movie business, film exhibition is so in the toilet that i would welcome people to come and sneak around our five different screens. pay for a movie and jump from one to the next. buy popcorn while you're there. can we take a moment -- i know we're supposed to be promoting the movie, but i did, like, phenomenally at the start. you sold me on my own movie and stuff. so i just want to to put that aside and take this opportunity. 30 years in the business. it's 30 years since "clerks" happened, right? i have had the thrill of watching, like, a piece of my

trailer on tv. i was raised by a television so that still means something to me. i have to set that aside because my uncle wayne, like, texted my this morning to be, like, you've officially made it. he said you're on "morning joe." he is a massive, massive fan. he gave me a list of fan questions and i was, like, i don't think i can get to this many. he wanted me to plead on his behalf, and he thinks you and joe should run together. he's familiar with joe's political. i watch in the mornings because i kept up in the mornings and watch all the political coverage. i'm familiar with y'all's work, and willie. what's up, willie? stay right where you are. >> i totally agree. so you have rachel dratch on the movie. i love her, and she's -- she actually interrupts the character in a movie by calling

him. >> your father wants to know if your movie is good or not. >> i don't know because i've been on the phone with you the whole time. listen. i love you, but i got to go. >> i love you too, tiger. >> that happened to you? >> rachel dratch plays my mom, and my mom back in the day before we had cell phones was an emergency breakthrough queen who would just call you wherever you were and whoever was on that phone, she would make an emergency breakthrough, and she did it to me once or twice while i was at the movie theater as well. if you were around in 1986, my lord, man, it's a real flashback. it's a peon to youth. this was a movie theater we shot at that i grew up going to when i was a kid. it's incredibly meaningful, but the thing is the place is old. the movie theater is, like, 100 years old. same seats in theater 1 are the same seats i sat in when i watched, like, "friday the 13th

part 2." >> wow. >> before we changed a thing, i was, like, we get a free period piece movie here, like, not quite merch and ivory, but everything looks old in here because nothing has been touched since the '60s. if we put a camera in just here, we can get away with 1986, and that's the birth of the story where it came from. i was, like, a lot of people felt -- the owner of the movie theater made "clerks." why don't you make "ushers"? that would be pretending stolen valor. >> donny deutsche is with me. for my 16th birthday, i took my friends to greece. if i'm 57 -- >> that was 1978. >> oh man. i am perfect for this movie. i got to go back in time. >> i love your work and i relate to it. i remember moments. the first time i kissed a girl was at a movie and i hope kids today go see it because they're missing a lot of that. my girls -- i could count the

times in my life they've gone to a movie. as teenagers, it wasn't part of the fabric, and it really hit a nerve with me. >> oh, it's so incredibly meaningful. yeah, the thing is, like, when i was growing up, we used to have community everywhere, right? we would go to school. we would two to church. you would go to, like, scouts. community is kind of dissipated and now people are -- kids are mostly in their phones and whatnot. last true community at least in my world is going to a movie theater where you're kind of mixed in with a bunch of people that you didn't intend to be in a room with, but you're all there for a similar reason. i grew up catholic, but my church has always been, and my temple has always been the movie theater and that's where i learn more about myself than in a classroom, than in a church or anything like that. that screen is a big mirror. we see ourselves reflected and learn things about ourselves while being entertained.

movies are just something to distract you from the fact that one day you're going to die. >> all right. in this new comedy -- >> on that note. >> "the 4:30 movie," it's in theaters now. kevin smith, thank you. i think the movie is amazing and thank you very much for being on the show today, and i'm scared to say -- >> it's a pleasure. such an honor and i'm telling you right now, my uncle wayne is going nuts. and that's meaningful than anything else. many thanks. >> thank you, uncle wayne. we'll be back with much more "morning joe." e wayne. we'll be back with much more "morning joe."

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tuesday's debate was watched

by 67.1 million people. [ applause ] making it the most watched tv show in the united states since the super bowl. that makes sense because the winner of the super bowl and the debate were both endorsed by taylor swift. >> and there you go. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. following their contentious debate, vice president kamala harris and former president donald trump are back on the campaign trail in battleground states with less than eight weeks until election day. harris will be in pennsylvania today while trump spends the day in california. nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake has the latest. >> i ask you today,north carolina, are you ready to make your voices heard? [ cheers and applause ] >> reporter: overnight, kamala harris slamming donald trump in the tarheel state for his debate performance. >> it was the same old show.

same old, tired playbook we've heard for years. with no plan for how he would address the needs of the american people. well, folks, look. it's time to turn the page. [ cheers and applause ] >> reporter: the vice president holding two post-debate rallies in north carolina. a key battleground state that she hopes to turn blue for the first time since 2008. harris welcoming a rematch. >> i believe we owe it to the voters to have another debate. [ cheers and applause ] >> reporter: donald trump campaigning in arizona thursday, defending his debate performance while attacking the administration over immigration. >> people said that i was angry at the debate, angry. i was angry. and yes, i am angry. >> reporter: and vowing not to return to the stage with the vice president despite previously agreeing to three debates this fall. >> because we've done two debates and because they were successful, there will be no

third debate. >> reporter: mr. trump also mocking the moderators and complaining of unfair treatment. >> those two people should be fired. >> reporter: the former president again pushing a false conspiracy theory that haitian migrants in the town of springfield, ohio are stealing pets for food. >> they're taking the geese. you know where the geese are in the park, in the lake. and even walking off with their pets. my dog's been taken. my dog's been stolen. >> reporter: on thursday, springfield was forced to close its town hall and elementary school after receiving a bomb threat. the city's mayor telling the springfield news sun that the threat included complaints about the haitian migrants in the city. >> literally a bomb threat. this is how dangerous his rhetoric is. as ridiculous as it may be, it's dangerous and unfounded. garrett haake with that report. joining us now we have special correspondent at "vanity fair" and the host of "the fast politics" podcast, molly

jong-fast, and donny deutsche is with us. and jeremy peters joins us as well. it's good to have you all. molly, what are you feeling and seeing and hearing and reading in the days after the debate? donald trump says he won, and again i ask, did he just blurt that out because he was so traumatized by the poor showing that he fared in the debate or was that planned by his campaign? because i would think anybody with any type of strategic thinking in their brain would wait a week or two before announcing there wouldn't be a third debate. it just looks -- well, like exactly what it is. he lost so bad he just doesn't want to go back for more. >> yeah, and i mean, harris is really good at this, right? she's a career prosecutor. so she knows how to prosecute

the case. what i was impressed by, and what the question was, was could she make the case for herself too, and she was able to very deftly both make the case against her and the case for herself, and you saw she was able to inject these tiny, little policy snippets. remember you don't have a ton of time there, and she was able to talk about, you know, the sort of economic policies she wanted to do with homeownership. she was able to do a lot of these very deftly, you know, worded statements. the thing that i thought was interesting was she got him off balance from the handshake and from the handshake, she was able to sort of keep going, and then she would bait him and leave him the time to sort of get involved in one of his psychodramas like the thing about his inheritance or about crowd size and get distracted from making the case against her. it was really, really strategic,

and really, really carefully done, and i thought that it was the kind of sort of three-dimensional chess that i'm not sure he's capable of. >> donny, the contrast was -- i think in three moments, i could think of more actually, because there were really striking moments on both sides, but all these moments really set the contrast. for americans in terms of what they want in a leader, and i think about kamala harris inviting people to go to a trump rally telling -- telling the viewers that, you know, you're going to hear a lot of lies, but what you're not going to hear is anything about you, not one idea. not one plan of what he's going to do for you, and then she talked about her career in service and how she always considers herself kamala harris for the people, and when she was representing someone, she at no

time didn't care if they were a democrat or a republican. she didn't ask, are you that? she asked, are you okay? and then finally, if you needed more, the comment about the eating of pets. >> yeah. the eating of pets will live on, you know, i want to go back to his post-debate spin that he won the debate, and i wonder -- >> oh yeah. >> i wish -- we need a "morning joe" medical correspondent on today to really get inside the brain -- i wonder if it works this way with him. does he -- obviously, does he know he lost? he says, i'm going to lie and spin it the other way, or does he immediately go to, because he can't stand loing at anything -- his brain transfix and he believes it? i don't know which one is worse, but i'm curious to be inside of his head. the other thing to learn, it's interesting. i had our friends katty kay and anthony scaramucci on my podcast after the debate and there was an interesting point. this may be one of the reasons he doesn't want to debate again.

he didn't land in philadelphia until 6:57. two hours before the debate. imagine that. you're just touching down a couple of hours before. that shows you the lack of preparation, the lack of seriousness. i mean, who would ever do that? it shows you how he's doing things on the fly, and i think he's obviously afraid to debate again. he knows he'll never put in the prep work, and he knows he lost, and i think this is going to work against him. i really do. if i'm kamala harris, i keep beating this to a drum. he will not debate again. he's afraid. he's running. >> and then there's jeremy peters who's coming after us. womp womp. in your new piece, jeremy, entitle "pundits said harris won the debate, undecided voters weren't so sure." you wrote this. in interviews with undecided voters, many of whom the times has interviewed regularly over the last several months, they acknowledged that ms. harris seemed more presidential than mr. trump, and they said she laid out a sweeping vision to

fix some of the country's most stubborn problems, but they also said she did not seem much different from mr. biden, and they wanted change, and most of all, what they wanted to hear and didn't was the fine print. voters said they were glad she has a tax and economic plan, but they want to know how it will become law when washington is so polarized. she know she wants to give assistance to first-time home buyers, but doubted it was realistic. i ask you, is their answer donald trump? because i guess -- i guess i see the questions. i think there was only so much that she could do in that debate in order to be as effective as she was, and i agree. there are a lot more questions. of course, i would love to ask kamala harris about her leadership style and her plans and how she plans to execute, but are those undecided voters saying, i'm going to stick with trump -- i'm going to kind of

lean trump here because i want change? i don't get it. >> no, i don't think that a lot of them are saying they're leaning trump. some of them certainly would, but i think the risk -- the bigger risk for her is they're going to stay home, that they're not motivated, inspired enough by her, because remember, people don't really know her, you know, as we've just quoted many voters saying, and many democratic strategists saying she's famous as vice president. of course, she has a very high name recognition, but she's largely unknown as a candidate and politician. she was elected to the united states senate in 2018. she's hardly, you know, been on the national stage for a long time, and she has had, let's not forget, a really truncated campaign period to introduce herself to voters. that's what the next eight weeks are all about, and something, mika, you point out is very correct. you can't do in two-minute answers in a debate. so there's not going to be

another debate, it looks like. in a way, i think that's almost good for her campaign because they can continue to introduce her to the voters who still need convincing on their own terms in these large ralrallies, in thes controlled settings. i think she's eventually going to have to do more interviews. she's only done the one so far. >> mm-hmm. >> but there's eight weeks, and that's an awful lot of time to convince people. there's a sliver of people really that need convincing, need motivating, and that's not -- that's not unthinkable or undoable for her, but this is still a very close race, and despite the fact that trump clearly lost the room on tuesday night -- >> yeah. >> -- she still -- and the question of whether or not she won in the minds of the people who are not really yet decided is an open one. >> so what's actually

interesting here is that with so little time, donny, your expertise is really -- it's actually relevant to this conversation because it's going to be about branding, really fast and furious, and it's going to be about honest branding, and i mean, if i were the harris campaign and i'm going to ask you if you agree with this or if you have a better idea, i would be focused on the contrast. hey. retribution. anti-democratic values. racism, and all the facts to back that up, literally you could have a sub-paragraph under each of those that went on for pages because he served as president, and he tried to do a lot of things that were incredibly destructive, and he was successful in many ways. january 6th, and he wants to pardon them, and then the contrast is, okay. you don't know me that well? lawyer, prosecutor, attorney general, state of california, senator, vice president. these are the jobs kamala harris

held. so doesn't that right there show a contrast that brands them very differently? >> yeah. i couldn't agree with you more. i don't have anything much wiser to say other than i would put a banner on top of that. it's all about contrast, but start the contrast with yesterday and tomorrow. hope versus despair, sadness versus joy, old news versus new news. that's the main contrast. all those other talking points -- not talking points, but facts that you put in there go underneath it, but it still starts with the candidate that owns change, the candidate that owns hope wins. i think it's very, very hard for him to sell anything about change or anything about hope because of who he is, and what he stands for. she on the other hand, and what he should have done at the debate, trump, is really attach her to biden because then she can't own hope or change. your point about contrast, contrast, contrast, absolutely,

but start it with hope versus despair. start it with tomorrow versus yesterday. >> molly, your latest opinion piece for msnbc.com is entitled "trump's routine sexism came back to bite him during the debate." tell us about it. >> it was really interesting. he tried to use her phrase. so remember during the mike pence debate, she said, i'm speaking when pence interrupted her, which was -- sort of became a kind of catch phrase, a little bit iconic, a pretty big thing to come out of a vice presidential debate. so trump tried to do it to her, but the problem for trump was that women relate to -- i'm sorry, guys, but women relate to being interrupted, and men don't necessarily do that. so when he said that, a powerful guy who's been, you know, quite famous for many, many years, it didn't have the same resonance, and he did that a bunch of times where he tried to flip the

script on her, but, in fact, it helped her, and she was able to flip the script on him. i don't know how she did it. live television as we all know here, is very hard, and to be able to provide, she was able to do a little bit of realtime fact checking too, which i thought was really amazing. she had to do so many things. it was really like a ginger rogers back dancing, you know, backwards in heels kind of thing. >> but there was one -- >> go ahead. >> i was going to say, mika, something that i don't think has gotten enough attention was the line that she used about trump being confused. remember? she -- when he attacked her for not being black, right? she said, you know, he's the same old guy, something to that effect, using the word, old, right? she's totally flipped the script on this, you know, trump's being able to paint his opponent as decrepit and, you know, mentally not all there. she said on tuesday night, that he's maybe confused about the

facts of the last election, and that is starting to become more of the conversation nationally about what the differences are between these two people because when you see them on stage together, there's no doubt who is the quicker on her feet, and has, you know, more command of policy and the issues at the top of her head. >> yeah, for sure. national reporter for "the new york times," jeremy peters, thank you very much for coming on this morning. so overnight, more than 30,000 boeing factory workers walked off the job after rejecting a union contract. it's the company's first strike since 2008. the work stoppage puts the brakes on production of the boeing's best-selling airliners and deals another blow to the struggling aircraft manufacturer. let's bring in the co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk box," and andrew ross sorkin. tell us more about the fallout from this strike potentially. >> this could have a real ripple

effect. the last time there was a strike at boeing, it cost boeing itself $100 million a day, but then you start to think about how that ripples across not just inside boeing, but all the suppliers from boeing, and then if you really start to extrapolate out what it ultimately means for airlines who are waiting for these planes and ultimately what it means there for passengers who, you know, months from now, a year from now, depending on how long they strike, were to take place, you know, you can see higher air fares down the line. there is a question mark about why boeing didn't negotiate harder or not harder, but and compromise more with these workers. 95% of the workers rejected this offer. they're seeking 40% raises. the offer on the table is a 25% raise, but their bonuses -- their annual bonuses get eliminated. there's a real question why boeing which has struggled as you know, and talked about the

different issues we faced, wouldn't be more inclined. they want to go to the negotiating table again, but let this go at this point, given just how many head winds they already are confronting. >> i want to ask you now about mortgage rates which have fallen to the lowest level since february of 2023. >> yeah. >> what does this mean for the housing market? >> it's a good news, but not amazing news. we're down about 6.2%, which by the way is the lowest since 2023, but, you know, one of the problems we talked about it before on this program, is you have this lock-in effect. so many people who got 30-year mortgages in 2018, 2019, 20 20, 2021, and perhaps even before that at rates that were, you know, 3%, 3.5%, and so the monthly cost of selling your home and moving is still so much higher, and so you have this mobility problem, physical mobility problem, but it's also -- if impacted by the way,

the labor market, because people are less willing to say, i'm going to take a job in another state because i'm going to have to sell my home, and then i'm going to have to buy a new home and even though the new home may cost the same as the old home, the monthly cost will be that much higher. it's good news that rates are coming down, there's no question, but we are still so far from where we were two, three, and four years ago that i think it's going to be very hard to, quote, unquote, feel that effect at least in the immediate term. >> all right. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much and time now for a look at the other stories making headline this is morning. in north dakota, a district judge that has struck down the state's near total abortion ban. in his ruling, the judge argued north dakota's constitution gives women a, quote, fundamental right to choose abortion adding that the state's ban was too vague. north dakota's attorney general, a republican, has promised to appeal this decision. a federal judge blocked utah from enforcing a new law that

would have required social media platforms to verify the ages of their users. the judge issued a preliminary injunction saying the law likely violated the first amendment. the food and drug administration has approved a piece of software that will transform the latest model of apple's air pods pro ear buds into the over-the-counter hearing aid. the new feature will be pushed to eligible devices through an update in the coming weeks. i look forward to hearing more on that. and the first batch of the u.s. postal service's long awaited new delivery trucks have finally made their debut. the new trucks which come equipped with modern safety features and one long overdue feature, air-conditioning, are receiving high praise from postal workers. and coming up, the fashion industry wants to get out the vote. we'll take you to the fashion for our future march where more than a thousand influential industry figures gathered to

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last week, more than 1,000 influential designers, models, factory workers and influencers participated in the fashion for our future march in new york city. to advocate for voter registration ahead of november's election. first lady jill biden was a surprise keynote speaker at the event which kicked off the start of new york fashion week. i am a voter, cofounder was there talking to participants. take a look. ♪♪

>> clothing. >> for as long as i can remember, you have woven civic engagement in your connections. i want to know blocks away from here at the flea market for $3,500. i had only been in this country for a few years, an idea that now i've gotten to have essentially the american dream and make it in this city, and i've heard if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. when i look around the audience, i see all of these people, i know so many of their stories and i know that they came from all over this country, because they were chasing a dream. and i just want to make sure that all of our voices can be heard this november. >> the fashion community is coming together to encourage everyone to vote in november.

it's a very important election and the fashion community has a great history of coming together as a community and supporting important causes like this one. >> we are here at the american fashion industry to demonstrate to the world that unity, learning from one another, and supporting democracy and peace, both in america and globally, are vital. please welcome the first lady of the united states, dr. jill biden. [ cheers and applause ] >> i know that you care about the freedom to make your own choices, be who you are, love who you love. the freedom, your freedom of creative expression. these freedoms are at risk, because of court decisions, book bans, shrugs of apathy when

people forget the power of the vote. vote early, then help others do the same. post on social media, call your friends across the country, and remind everyone that we can vote our way toward a future where freedom really does ring. >> for more on the fashion for our future march, head over to knowyourvalue.com. joining us, editor at large at newsweek, tom rogers, and republican strategist, who have coauthored an op-ed for "newsweek," entitled "engendering support for supreme court reform is a matter of gender" and, susan, tell us about the piece. >> it's actually the second piece, we were on earlier -- i think last month, talking about the actual number crunching and people's opinions of the supreme

court. this piece dives in deeper as to what can motivate or change, make real change, especially on issues like term limits or court expansion. tom really has the dig-in on how that happens. but politically, i think it could be a really useful tool for a hopeful president harris to use as a way to create some unity within the democrats and republicans in the house and senate, because most people want reform. they may not want to expand the court, but they want the reform. >> what's the dig-in that susan is referring to? >> well, the previous numbers we talked about, there's broad support for biden's reform proposals, especially ethics reform on the court and term limits. this dug in, how do people's views on abortion and gun control affect their view of change on the supreme court.

very interesting. there's a plurality of people who do not support expanding the court, even though expansion of the court may be the only way realistically near term to deal with the supreme court's decision in overturning roe v. wade and the supreme court's decisions limiting the ability to control guns in a meaningful way. and that is a very, very significant issue, but what is fascinating about it is women do support expansion of the court, meaning allowing four more justices to overcome the conservative majority today and turn it into a 7-6 court. term limits, a lot of broad support, but many argue it would take a constitutional amendment. never will happen. and even if you don't do it with

a constitutional amendment and try to do it legislatively, it would take a generation to really affect how staggered term limits affect the current balance. but if kamala harris is elected and she holds the senate, a 50/50 senate and having a vice president is enough now to approve new justices because of mitch mcconnell getting rid of the 60 vote filibuster culture rule. that immediately changes reform, women and democrats strongly support that. >> but i have a political question, so obviously, morally, the court is remaking the country in a radical way, which is not their job, but technically politicians have not done well when they've changed the makeup of the court. do you think that anxiety is real and do you think that democrats could lose on that if they do?

>> it's a great question, because the way the question was posed was, would you support expansion of the court, even though it would increase polarization nationally and create deadlock in congress. that's the only way to answer it, because there are huge consequences to the rather radical step of expanding the court to 13. and even asked that way, women supported it, democrats overwhelmingly supported it. so if the first woman president of the united states wants to deal with the issue that may win this election for her, the pro choice abortion plank, this would practically be the only way to do it. >> near term, if she wanted to actually get something through politically, she could go for ethics reform. that has overwhelming support. and with the court approval rating being at 34% -- and this was a number that troubled me, only 31% of the people polled

felt that the court was fair and nonpartisan. so i think something like ethics reform could be a political win, and actually make a difference for the country. we need to have faith in our supreme court. it has just gotten so low that it opens the door for a lot of divisiveness. >> i couldn't agree more. the new piece is online now. tom rogers and susan, thank you both very much for coming on on this friday morning. still ahead on "morning joe," president biden has called it the proudest legislative accomplishment during his more than 50 years in washington. today marks 30 years since the violence against women act was signed into law. we'll discuss the impact of the landmark legislation just ahead on "morning joe."

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the shelters we were putting

in place were nothing more than indoctrination centers. few police departments had special victims units and there was no national hotline to call, none. that was the background when i first wrote the violence against women act in 1990. my goal was to do more than change the law, to change the culture of america. >> that was president joe biden yesterday speaking at the white house to commemorate the 30th anniversary of the violence against women act, the landmark legislation that he wrote and championed as a u.s. senator. the president hailed it as his proudest legislative accomplishment during his more than five decades of serving in political office in washington. joining us now, deputy assistant to the president and communications director for the first lady, elizabeth alexander. it's so great to have you on the

show. >> thanks, mika. thanks for having me. >> i love this topic, because it's very joe biden. he has a history of getting ahead of issues that people are only whispering about, and it makes me think of 2012, same-sex marriage, when he went on "meet the press" and he just said out loud what others were not prepared to say, and that is, who do you love? who is it you're going to be loyal to? that's what marriage is about, supporting same-sex marriage. talk about the violence against women act and how much he was pushing the envelope back then on this issue. >> that's right, mika. i mean, i couldn't agree with you more. joe biden his entire career has been ahead of issues, and i'll take you back to 1990. this was an issue, domestic violence, it was something, as you said, people were only whispering about it. no one was talking about it. there were few resources. and joe biden opened the door on this. he shined a harsh spotlight on

it, on that abuse, on what was going on across the country, which was treated as a private family matter. it was being ignored by police, dismissed by judges. he changed that. in 1990 he held historic hearings, he brought survivors forth. he gave them a platform, a megaphone they had never had before. and they told their stories of horrific violence that they were facing, often at the hands of those who were supposed to love them most. and, so, joe biden, as he does, he listened, but more importantly, he forced others to listen and he acted. and so in 1990, he wrote the law, the violence against women act, his proudest legislative achievement. but it took years to get passed. there was opposition to it. but he rallied those survivors, he rallied advocates, and together, because of his

doggedness and his expertise and the courage of survivors, they got it pass it in 1994 as part of the larger bipartisan crime bill, and millions of women have been saved because of it. when we talk about joe biden's legacy, when we think about joe biden's legacy, i think of those women that were saved by vawa, which it is frequently called, and the generations of trauma since that it likely prevented. >> hi, elizabeth. it's molly. the right has no-fault divorce in its cross hairs right now. no-fault divorce was another piece of this that prevented domestic violence. can you talk about no-fault divorce and what this administration can do to protect it? >> well, i'm not an expert on no-fault divorce, but i am an expert on joe biden's legacy on this law, and i think that, you know, a lot of abuse is happening in homes. again, like i said, women, wives, girlfriends, are often facing this violence at the

hands of people who are supposed to love them most. and that was what was happening back in the '90s. it still happens today, but today there is public outrage on it, there are lanes for justice, there's accountability today that wasn't there 30 years ago. and so, as far as it relates to divorce, i mean, now it's not treated as a family matter. violence comes out in court. it's talked about. judges recognize it. so i can imagine that it has an impact, this legislation specifically, for 30 years in the courtroom. >> deputy assistant to the president and communications director for the first lady, elizabeth alexander, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. take care. coming up, "the new york times" says it's refreshing to see actors dedicating themselves to entertaining their audience. the paper is talking about

sutton foster and co-stars of "once upon a mattress" who join us next to discuss their new broadway revival. roject. while loading up our suv, one extra push and... crack! so, we scheduled at safelite.com. we were able to track our technician and knew exactly when he'd arrive. we can keep working! ♪ synth music ♪ >> woman: safelite came to us. >> tech: hi, i'm kendrick. >> woman: with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> vo: schedule free mobile service now at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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xfinity mobile was designed for where you need it most. xfinity internet customers, ask how to get a free 5g phone and a second unlimited line free for a year. ♪ i've always been shy ♪ ♪ i confess it ♪ ♪ i'm shy ♪ ♪ can't you guess that this confidence air ♪ ♪ is a mask that i wear because i'm shy ♪ ♪ and you may be shy ♪ ♪ some people might deny it ♪ >> i love it. that's a look at the new broadway revival of the musical "once upon a mattress," originally debuting on broadway

back in 1959 and launching the career of legendary comedian carol burnett. the show is a re-telling of the princess and the pea, the fairy tail. the queen makes every attempt to stop the wedding from ever happening. joining us, the co-stars, tony award winner sutton foster, and award winner michael urie. sutton and michael, welcome to the show. it's great to have you both. >> thank you. >> so i'm going to ask you both, sutton, you start, like, the twist. is it shocking, is it upsetting, is it inspiring? like, both of you describe the twist without giving it away. sutton, you start. >> the twist, it sounds like this epic horror story. no, i mean, the best part is that i get to play a character

that's unexpected. she's fish out of water. she comes to this town and sort of breathes new life. she's not your typical princess. and they're unusual characters, even the prince is not your usual prince. there's this great line in the show that says, the prince is unusual and princess winifred is unusual, and maybe they can be unusual together. that's sort of the essence of embracing your uniqueness. >> yeah, we get to -- >> michael? >> we get to play unorthodox versions of a prince and princess. the kingdom where our show takes place is under a very strict rule, this sort of evil queen is not letting anyone get married until she finds the appropriate princess for her son. but there is no one that will

meet her standards. so no one can get married. and then in comes princess winifred, covered in sludge from swimming the moat, and he immediately falls in love with her. and she sort of turns the entire kingdom around. everybody is able to break out of their shell because of her. it's really about this oppressed community, this oppressed sort of nation that are looking to this amazing woman to come and save them. >> oh, my god, that's really good. molly? >> i feel like this leads into my question, which was this is very feminist, the musical, and the two of you have been in a lot of stuff together. talk to me about the sort of real world implications of a musical like this, which has this positive message for women and for young girls. >> well, originally in 1959, it

is still so relevant today in 2024. i have a 7-year-old daughter, and i was, like, all right, maybe this is finally a princess we can get behind. it really is. it was revolutionary then, and to have a character, her nickname is fred and she's uniquely unique, and that's the thing i love about her, is that she is just who she is. she isn't trying to be unique, she isn't trying to be different. she just embraces all of it and comes in and is ultimately celebrated for it. >> you need your partners on stage to be on mark when you do that tilt over. >> the ultimate trust fall. >> mika mentioned in the opening, carol burnett, obviously launched her career in 1959. you've got big shoe to say step into. she came out and was so excited about you having the role. have you had any interaction with her? >> yes, we've spoken on the phone and i got to meet her in person before we started

rehearsals, and it was sort of mind-blowing. i grew up watching the carol burnett show and she's my hero. the idea that i now know her, she knows my name or i'm even playing this role, it's still like a pinch-me moment. but she's extraordinary, and i think has paved the way for so many young comedians, being able to see someone like that on television, who was unafraid to be goofy and make people laugh and create such an environment with that show, it was so much about it being an ensemble and celebrating and setting up each other and making each other laugh. and that's essentially what we get to do every night on stage with the ensemble of people we get to work with. >> the carol burnett show, the tight wire, where they're trying not to laugh, doing something insane, wearing curtains or whatever, that happens every night at "once upon a mattress" where we laugh at each other.

>> you two are at the top of your game, but you're also friends. because i've worked with you guys, and you've worked with each other a bunch. talk to us about your relationship. >> she's the greatest, and whenever i would guest star on "younger" i would always feel it. she sets a tone that is inspiring, that is creative, that is collaborative, and doing a show like this -- we do the show eight times a week, it is exhausting. it's physically exhausting. >> it's incredible. >> and we have to go to times square every single time. >> just getting to the theatre. >> getting to the theatre is a job. and then we go on stage and we play. and there are the giggles of children in the audience that inspire us, and it feels like -- i feel like a kid again. i feel like i'm a kid and we go out and have a play date every

show. >> you are a kid. >> yes, exactly. it is so awesome to have such a wonderful relationship and, no matter where either of us go, we catch each other and it really is -- we just get to play every night. it's pretty awesome. >> that is the best kind of job, when you love it. the limited engagement of "once upon a mattress" is playing now at the hudson theatre through november 30th. co-star sutton foster and michael urie, thank you, both, and congratulations. this looks amazing. have fun, kids. take care. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪ i'm in love with a girl named fred ♪ ♪ a clever clownish wit ♪ ♪♪ now with skyrizi, i'm all in with clearer skin.

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trump, harris and president biden were in manhattan yesterday together for a 9/11 memorial ceremony. after the ceremony, biden met with firefighters in pennsylvania, where he met a local who apparently was not a fan. [ cheers and applause ]

>> and a new comedy team was born. when he put that trump hat on his head, he gave everyone a brain aneurysm at once. isn't it nice to see biden fooling around? when i see him now, it's like when you go on vacation and the doggie daycare texts you a picture of your golden retriever playing catch? oh, look at that, he's having fun. >> actually, i thought that was really sweet and loving in its own way, and joe biden is just -- he's wonderful. molly? >> yeah, really humanizing. again, the point here is that we're all people and that we need to connect on a human level. i thought it was really lovely

and it showed that biden is able to connect with people. and biden has done a lot of great stuff, and i think that we all -- i mean, i personally feel like he's done amazing, he's passed amazing legislation, and the stuff he's done has been really, you know, change-making. so i thought it was a very human moment that we should have more of in our politics. >> just a final thought, the school yard when you were afraid to do something, somebody would go bok-bok, i want to shout the chicken ramble to donald trump for not wanting to do another debate. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports," no repeat? donald trump rejecting calls for another debate with vp harris, as he doubles down on a conspiracy theory he parroted on