an innocent freudian slip on the debate stage when he said "we," to describe the rioters at the capital? >> well, i -- you know, january 6th -- i actually made a film called "for the capital" for hbo and we looked at the capital crisis. i think january 6th was, that was meant to put pressure on mike pence. i think maybe the "we" was the collective desire to course the vice president into casting doubts on the electoral results and throwing the election back to congress. which, clearly failed. and also, we have vice president mike pence's chief of staff, and his lead counsel, and greg jacobs, mike pence's counsel, and the film by saying, you know, you have to be very, very careful about the

character of the people you choose to leave the country, because otherwise they could be the enof the republic and that is a statement that really haunts me now. >> let me ask you quick even though i am out of time, were there any points during filming when you, or the crew,. for your safety among these protesters, calling for the results to be changed in trump's favor? >> no, i think we have all seen far worse. there were a lot of guys running around, but they don't scare us. >> all right. all right, tough guy, also known as dan reed. thank you so much. the film is "stealing the steal". best of luck with that. thank you. and you can watch the hbo original documentary, and it will be there soon, very soon for you to watch. so, in moments, the road map of a rumor and how it became the big moment in a presidential debate. esidential. good day to all you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome, everyone, to "alex witt reports" and we began with

decision 2024, 52 days to until election day. vice president kamala harris is attending events in washington, d.c. today. her running mate, thomas, is in wisconsin. senator jd vance is in , north carolina. new this hour, a plan by the harris campaign to target blue states. we will have more on that in just a moment. also new today, the fallout on donald trump's repeated lies aboutte haitian immigrants in springfield, ohio. one democratic party official says the backlash is grrippling through state as far away as florida. ♪ ♪ >> don't sleep on florida, folks. florida, florida, florida. every time they go after one of these groups and communities, ou the pockets of the communities are inside crucial states. al my phone is blowing up with haitian americans calling me saying, what are you gonna do about these republicans coming after their communities? >> early voting in person

starts in pennsylvania monday. yesterday, vice president harris made campaign stops in da johnstown and wilkes-barre, warming voters of the economic impacts of msnbc's plans. >> donald trump looks at billionaires and massive corporations for tax cuts like t he did before. he intends to cut social security and medicare >> boo! >> and he wants to impose what i call the trump sales tax on every day basic necessities, which economists have reviewed and said it would cost the average family $4000 a year. ag >> trunk, meanwhile, spoke in las vegas last night where he announced plans to, quote, liberate the country. ote, >> when i return to the white house i will launch a special task force, elite federal law enforcement and charge them with crushing and eliminating every organized crime network. let's go back another 300 years. we are going to liberate our country!

did you ever think i would be standing here, it is a hell of a way to get elected. >> we have a number of reporters and analysts in place for all these new developments l and we start with kamala aaron gilchrist at the white house. hr you have new developments on the campaign schedule for vice president harris. do you want to share them? >> it will be a busy couple of days for vice president harris and governor walz. the vice president is technically not campaigning today although she will appear at an event tonight. the original black caucus foundation dinner here in washington. president biden is expected to r speak there, as well. it is also happening in tandem with the release by the campaign, information about $3 million in spending on spanish- language radio is rolling out this weekend, as well. i do want you to hear a little bit about what vice president

harris had to say on the campaign trail in pennsylvania yesterday. she talked a lot about the things we have heard her speak about before, economic opportunity, but there was one part yesterday that was new was something we had not heard in before related to college education. let's listen. >> i will also make sure good paying jobs are available to all americans, not just those with college degrees. our nation needs to recognize the value of other paths, additional paths, such as apprenticeships and technical programs. so as president, i will get rid of the unnecessary degree requirements for federal jobs. [ applause ] to increase jobs understanding that requiring a certain degree does not necessarily talk about one's skills. [ applause ]

>> reporter: and so the campaign has indicated that message is part of the vice president's message around helping to create opportunities for the middle class. we also see her lean into, next week, the idea building coalitions. on tuesday the vice president on will travel to pennsylvania again, that critical battleground state. she will be in philadelphia, wi speaking with the national association of black journalists. you might remember she was invited to their conference over the summer and was not r able to attend but former president trump did speak there. di the vice president had a fireside chat with the organization before coming back in washington, where she will speak at the hispanic congressional caucus institute's conference here in washington on thursday. she will travel to michigan and join trump for a personal

conversation, it will be a virtual conversation with some of these groups that held the zoom calls, if you will, over the last couple weeks, since vice president harris became the nominee, it is all the organizations coming together for one event. ng she will wrap up the week in wisconsin, alice, really, i think, making the point again, these battleground states are critically important to the campaign and their strategy, in a significant way, has been for the vice president to show up in these places, physically show up and try to reach out to voters in that way, both voters who are on the fence and voters who, maybe have leaned m republican in the past that may be gettable, if you will, for the harris-walz campaign. >> aaron gilchrist, thank you so much for the white house. joining me now is maggie vespa in springfield, ohio, outside the hospital that received bomb threats following the false claims by former president trump and his runningn mate about haitian immigrants. tell us about the impact on what is happening in the local community. >> reporter: yeah, alex, we r actually have an update since we last spoke. we learned that a special -- second hospital was also targeted by a bomb threat, ea springfield regional medical

center, let the car go by, basically the same story, they got a call earlier this morning from local police say the hospital had been targeted. police came and searched the premises and found nothing suspicious. this is day three, three es straight days of bomb threats in the small, kind of factory , town here in ohio. the last couple of days it was schools and government buildings. the fbi said they were looking into that. all of this stemming from, city officials are adamant, this baseless, online conspiracy theory that haitian immigrants, there is a large population is here in springfield, our kidnapping and eating peoples pets. city officials are adamant, again, they say that is t completely false. there is no evidence of that. there are no reports of that. that being said, they just found an incredible lie that was repeated by president trump on the debate stage early this week to become a staple for him on the campaign trail. president biden was at, actually, a black excellence event yesterday and was, after,

he spoke after about a black haitian-american, he actually touched on what is happening here in springfield, kind of that broader ripple effect thato it is having. here is what he had to say. >> i want us to take a moment to say something like so many americans, like karine, proud haitian-american, communities under attack in our country right now is simply wrong. t there is no place in america . this has to stop what he is doing. it has to stop. >> reporter: and, and we are hearing similar statements, alice, local officials, local authorities just saying like the scene is like insanity to them and it is frightening, these springfield communities, the thousands of patients have come into the city legally, by the way, they are here legally under temporary protected status for factory jobs in the y

low cost of living. now they tell nbc news they are terrified. a lot of them are keeping their kids home from school. one family woke up to their windows smashed and acid thrown on their car. they say they are afraid to be in their own community. we actually, alice, have a ct community meeting of haitians later on tonight where perhaps for the first time we expect to hear some people speak about, s at least publicly, how this has impacted them. it is really terrifying a lot of people and this relatively small ohio town, alex. >> yeah, i am just sitting here stunned, shaking my head as you are reporting. maggie vespa, thank you so much for doing so. joining me now is a professor from columbia university and former executive director of the new york state decoratedãdemocratic party and former aide to former vp candidate paul ryan. i want to remind people how far removed trump or vance are from

anyone who had first-hand knowledge of these rumors. the woman who initially made wo the facebook paste this my post said she is now filled with regret. she heard it from a friend of a friend of a neighbor and so on, right? i mean, are voters seeing the utter disregard for fact in the trump campaign? >> well mitt has existed for quite some time. you know what, what we talked about before, the nature of what trump will say in response. he will say something and therefore, you know, the control over the narrative, he will say, you know, i didn't say it. i heard it from somebody else. >> i mean, come on. >> you are a national political leader. you have a platform where what you say does matter. you know, he has never really, back in 2016, he felt believing

in these conspiracy theories, some felt that young people were being trafficked at a b pizzeria in washington, d.c. and when you think about the magnitude, i have said it a number of times before but we have never heard it from the mouth of a presidential nominee. it is disgusting, shameful and has real-world consequences for peoples actual lives. that is what fowe are seeing pl out right now. >> brendan, on the day that the city hall was evacuated, trump was posting memes like this. there you go. he was asked if he would stop spreading misinformation because of the danger it be caused. he did not answer. he said the real problem is at

the border. does trump not understand his words have ripple effects? is he not care or, worse, does he intentionally do it? >> yeah, i'm glad you raised that. that was a remarkable moment. it was pointed out to him that schoolchildren are being evacuated from the classrooms because of the comments he is making and he showed absolutely no remorse, right? ut i think it is important, it is not just that, you know, the online chatter that made its way to him, there is strategic importance to the trumonp s in country because you can't talk about rounding up millions of t people and tearing them away from their country that they their entire lives, from their families, unless you dehumanize them. i think that is ultimately what this is about and why they are leaning into the haitian community.

it is not lost on anybody there is a racial component to this, as well. there is no real, i think this is an important point, on the republican right, there is no bl limit on how out there you can be on immigration. remember, donald trump talked about arming mexico to stop gangs from coming in here. he pays no price for it and his entire campaign is built around turning out people to support these kinds of things, so i don't think there is any, we should have no confidence he will tap the brakes on this anytime soon. >> okay, basil, was moved to far right conspiracy theorist laura loomer, who is also spreading these lies we are talking about. shockingly, she joined trump to commemorate 9/11, who rumors that 9/11 was an inside job. even the most mad or republicans, marjorie taylor greene even shared and condemned the post loomer made this month. what does trump hope to get out of by being next to your being advised by a conspiracy theorist? >> for a long time we have been saying donald trump, politically and elect oriole, he can't go above certain number of points. instead of trying to raise the ceiling, he is digging deeper into the floor. he is going into the darkest

places of conspiracy theories and theorists to go and get support. to brendan's point earlier, which was a very good point, there is a political benefit he sees out of doing this. o and by expanding and amplifying these, these, these theories, the statements and actually having somebody with him, whispering in his ear, you know, and feeding this to him, it really does talk a lot about, you know, how far, i don't even need to say how far right, just how far away from reality he really has. and i imagine, you know, for the voter, i don't care if you are democratic, independent or republican, you have to find this, not just strange, but alarming that someone who does not deal in anything close to reality has that much influence on a presidential candidate. >> untethered from reality, absolutely.

so brendan, what does it say that even far right members of the republican party are tryinge to stop trump from associating with loomer and they are failing. does this suggest to you that trump is just not interested in expanding his voting pool deck, he believes he can win with his current level of support? >> donald trump's political strategy has always been creating his own reality. i think he likes the reality that people like laura loomer talk about for him. i don't want to give any credit to a marjorie taylor greene or i someone like that with a voice of reason, i just think that marjorie taylor greene wishes she were herself was on that plane, she herself engages in crazy conspiracy theories. we need to take a breath. we have been doing this for years, we tell donald trump how he should act better and do different things, he will not do so. this is not about his campaign, it is not about laura loomer,

this man doesn't have any real respect for truth, fact, reality, he just wants to live in the reality that works best for him. he wants to have power where he is and if we find somebody, like the wackiest person on thes internet, bring them in. we have seen him sit down with all kinds of people i would never ever want to associate with, let alone the republican nominee for president. bl >> okay. e this is part one, guys. basil, brendan, stay with me. n we have a lot more to talk about. we will do it in a moment. for all of you, we will talk , about poll numbers and why they remain so close in the race. e i will speak with mary trump in her new memoir about her famous family and the pain she has endured at the hands of her family during her childhood. we are back in 90 seconds.

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employees get the information they need instantly. this is how business goes further with t-mobile for business. following former president trump's disappointing performance in today's debate, he said it was unfair while potentially leaving the door open for rematch. we have heard trump waiver now on the possibility of another debate, but what are you hearing from his supporters?

>> reporter: alex, you're right. donald trump declare victory at the debate during those remarks in las vegas last night while at the same time accusing vice president kamala harris of cheating without evidence. he suggested she might have worn an earpiece and received the questions in advance. again, we have no evidence of that. you're right, he has been seen since that debate. he is not plenty to do another one with harris ahead of the november election. but yesterday during remarks in california before the las vegas rally, he left the door open to another debate just a crack, say maybe he would reconsider, if he is in the right mood. i spoke with a handful of kamala most ardent supporters and if you expect the speck expressed to me said that vice president, harassing to get under trump's skin a bit and there were times he was more on the defense of rather than the offense of. here is one of trump's supporters. take a listen. >> i thought there were some good points back that trump made. honestly, i just wish he would had hammered back at what exactly what kamala was saying and using her own words on what she was saying to emigrate -- emigrate what she said. there were a few points, i saw she may just to get underneath trump's skin.

>> reporter: it is interesting to know, alex, why the supporters were willing to expect concerns about trump's concerts, they quickly taught them up to what they say was an unfair media environment, something we have heard the former president himself expressed in the day since the defense -- debate. thank you for the report, jillian frankel. new polls show vice president kamala harris growing her lead after tuesday in the debate there. it is still a tight race. this poll shows harris with 50% of the vote among likely voters compared to 45% for trump, slightly outside the margin of error. reuters has harris with 47%, trump 42% within the margin of error. 11% say they either haven't decided, don't plan to vote or are backing another candidate. basil smikle and brendan buck are back with me now. does the reaction need a couple

more days before polling will more accurately reflect where voters are supposed to be or is it so apparent that those opinions were immediately influenced? >> well you know, i have always said that it may not move people, the narrative coming out, coming off of it. it does and the truth is, i think a lot of voters just really wanted to make sure that kamala harris looked presidential, was accurate on issues and wanted to be tough against donald trump, which she was. i think this is a good opportunity. i think you saw good balance. i also think this is a really good opportunity to actually go more local, go to ground, which she has been doing. in fact, that is why i don't think she should do another debate. strategically, she makes a mistake at another one closer

to the election, it erases all of her wins. frankly, donald trump is not a peer. i would just have a singular conversation with the vote right now. even if she could do that, not only do i see the numbers getting better, i think she should still run, but i think the numbers will still get better, one issue is that most defined from a policy standpoint between her and donald trump is on the economy. i think she can make up that ground. i feel that the best way to do that is go to the ground. >> brendan, should there be a second debate the two ? is it to trump's advantage to do so? >> i certainly think it is. he may say he doesn't want to do another debate, but i think find points down, three or four

weeks from now he will be singing a different tune. actually, i agree with basil. i am not sure that harris ' folks, they have really been leaning into this doing another debate. she had one of the best debate you could ever ask for. if he realizes he needs to get his act together and does a little bit better, that could be very beneficial for trump. i would expect there probably would be another one. >> let me ask you, brendan. she did a masterful job of getting under his skin. it is a very easy thing to do but she did so under the pressure of lights and knowing that millions and millions were watching. if she does that again, how much does that have to be weighed by the trump camp? because she is capable of it. >> well i mean, she throughout. it was on him, ultimately, do not take it. i am sure the bait, they tried to prep him for that. look, donald trump had a bad debate against joe biden and a

bad debate against kamala harris. he has had better debates. he is capable of doing this if he puts in a little effort. he has been a lazy candidate. theoretically, he could figure out that, don't do that. if he can't, that is great and that is probably why the harris folks are leaning into it because they are so confident he is incapable of discipline. that is a risky proposition, i think. i think that harris , the folks think they will debate if he is willing to do it. i just don't think donald trump can run away. eventually he will realize he didn't actually win this debate. >> basil, quick question about pennsylvania. is it advantageous for harris to go there? how much can she really pick up? >> you know, sometimes you showing up is half or two thirds of the challenge. in fact, you had harris and tim walz going into rural georgia, this is where democrats have not gone for a good period of time, showing up really is , at least after that, you know, i try not to, i always emphasize not to leave any place or any race uncontested. so you never know how many mind

you will change. the importance of having her there, she can actually spend money in these areas. she doesn't have to spend all of her time but whatever time she does been there, she can follow up with digital ads, with ads, with volunteers on the ground, trying to do a little bit of persuasion. that is where the advantage will be in that persuasion. i really don't have a problem with her going. i think it is a good thing. you never want to leave any play some terms. you never want people to say she didn't show up. she has shown up. she has the resources to show up and she has a policy language to show up. >> basil smikle, brendan buck, good to see you guys. the new redline for vladimir putin and whether it is being taken seriously enough. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ weld, stack, feed, feed, feed... you hungry? thank you! and snap, saw, pull, load, map, send,

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vladimir putin to the united states and its allies. the russian president says nato risks war if it supports ukraine's use of long-range missiles. let's go now to nbc correspondent in london. danielle, welcome. what exactly is putin warning the u.s. not to do and what are the consequences? >> reporter: well, russia is warning the west do not let ukraine fire your long-range weapons deep inside russian territory or else, or else the same western countries would be considered, as you said, at war with russia, nuclear power. varma zielinski, the ukrainian president has been pleading for months with allies to let his country use those weapons to hit deep inside russian territory. we are talking specifically hear about the u.s. attackers and the british storm sheds. it

would allow ukraine to hit airbases deep inside ukraine, as well as military targets from which every single day russia is launching attacks that are killing ukrainian civilians. the u.s. and the uk appeared to have inched closer to a decision. it appears as though they will potentially be lifting these restrictions, which has prompted, as you mentioned, alice, this morning from vladimir putin. part of his argument is these long-range weapons require more support, more logistical support and intelligence support by these nato countries than is currently the case. here is more from the russian president. [ speaking in a global language ] >> translator: if this decision is made, it will mean nothing less than the direct process a patient of nato countries, the united states and european countries, in the war with ukraine.

this is direct participation and of course, significantly changes the essence, the very nature of the conflict. this would mean that nato countries, the united states and european countries, are fighting russia. >> reporter: and the reaction from u.s. officials, they say they take's threat seriously but they are also quick to point out the fact that he has made similar facts in the past, as well. next, mary trump, niece of the former president, on her new book about the love, humiliation and suffering she witnessed and experienced within her family. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50.

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♪♪ we had a debate. i obviously did very well. i am leading in every poll by a lot. i picked up a lot. i thought it was a great debate. where crooked announcers. i think i did great with the debates. i think i answered everything. maybe if i am in the right mood, i don't know. >> okay. that is donald trump with reporters complaining about debate moderators and saying he has no plans to engage in a second debate with vice president kamala harris unless he gets in the right mood, maybe. joining me now is mary trump, niece of donald trump and author of a second book on the trump family, the title is "who could ever love you?" it is a family memoir. i wish you could have heard me

extol the virtues of this book. it is extraordinary, mary, very compelling read. is it surprising, mary, he says he won't do another debate unless the mood strikes him, for whatever that's worth? would you have expected him to take every possible opportunity to go toe to toe with vp harris. do you think he is afraid of her beating him a second time? >> first of all, alex, it is wonderful to be with you. it has been a long time. but i think donald showed his hand, well, during the debate for sure, but immediately afterwards, winners do not show up in the spin room and winners do not turn down an opportunity to win again. so he knows he lost this debate. he knows he will lose the next one. and the only mood that would strike him to get him to debate again would be desperation. if he felt the only thing he could do would be to try to do better next time because, you know, one, he can't deny, on

the other hand, i think this is one of the reasons he went to the spin room, he thinks that just by virtue of his showing up, he can change the narrative. he is always the smartest person in the room so i think that will be operative, if the polls are changing in vice president harris' favor, etc., etc. right now, i think it would be the most foolish thing he could do would be to show up for a second debate. >> i guess we will see, again, if the moon strikes him. onto the next thing. he has also defended having far right activist laura loomer in his little entourage, even as his allies are pressing him to ditch her. do you know trump to be someone who is prone to conspiracy theories like the ones floated

by loomer on social media? does he actually think that way or does he allow others to influence him? does his brain work that way? >> it is actually worse than that. donald has absolutely no ideology. he has no, quote, unquote, philosophy, except that he will do whatever is good for him. so he will attract people who are willing to debase themselves to support him. he has made it very clear. the appeal to him of people like laura loomer is not the hatred she spouts, although that is definitely a side benefit, it is that she supports him. that is really all it takes to get him to embrace you and much, much worse for us, elevate you. we have seen this. nothing is new here, alex. i think we need to take a step back sometimes and remind ourselves of this. donald has been doing the same thing for almost 10 years now. he surrounds himself with the

worst of us. he is spouses the most dangerous, vile rhetoric and conspiracy theories, not because he believes them but because it makes a certain segment of our population support him more. here we are 10 years later and it is the same thing, but the danger is inherent in what he is doing. all we need to do to know that is to look at how much worse the people surrounding him are. laura loomer is one of the most vile human beings on the planet and how much more effective and targeted his domestic terrorism is. we see that in springfield, ohio where he and jd vance are terrorizing a hard-working community that do not deserve the kind of hatred and bigotry they are throwing at them. >> so let me draw on your phd in psychology here.

i am curious why you think he would repeat these lies about haitian migrants in springfield ? does it have something to do with his upbringing, with his childhood? >> well my thing, partially, racism comes easily to donald trump. he grew up in a very racist and misogynistic family. it is not a surprise to me that, as he has gotten older, most of those things have worsened. this is somebody who has no self-awareness, who has never done the work to make himself a better person because he thinks he is great. so he doesn't have to change anything about himself. so he will always take the most expedient route towards shoring up the people who already support him who, again, many of them are just the worst. they are the white supremacists and the christian nationalist and

the neo-nazis who, of course, donald thinks are very fine people, again, because they are on his side. so, again, we can't lose sight of how dangerous it is and he will always go after the most vulnerable populations in our country and it is despicable, especially if you consider it is all in service to his ego and his narcissism and keeping him in power and potentially keeping him out of prison. >> so this book, who could ever love you, it is a courageous book to write. it is delving into your past. it's emotional effect on you and it also reveals an aspect of your uncle's early life. was writing it cathartic for you? i am curious what you want readers to understand about you and your family, and that includes your uncle. >> i wish i could say it was cathartic.

it was quite difficult to write . no, it did not actually afford me any solace. it did, however, feel necessary. i got to a point towards the end of 2023 where i realized i was not doing well. i was barely subsisting, let alone thriving and i couldn't figure out why. i needed to figure out why. i realize, you know, a lot of us are experiencing the same thing. i came into this crazy time we are living through already having complex posttraumatic stress disorder, but the last nine years further most of us have been traumatizing in and of itself. i think it is incredibly important to, one, face what we are dealing with what donald trump is capable of doing, who he is, and how it has affected

us and how we will do the work when hopefully, after november, we stabilize a little bit more because in many ways, we are a broken country and the best evidence of that is that donald trump is the candidate for the presidency in one of our two major political parties. unless and until we do the work, we will have to keep fighting these battles that don't get us any closer to the ideal of a democracy that represents all of us equally. we are so far from that right now. and i think we need to understand what's keeping us from getting there, how we have been harmed and what we are going to do about it. >> i am going to be in touch

with you. i want to get together and go through the things in this book that we could not get through in the commercial break. it is beautiful. i will advertise for it, it is revelatory and congratulations, my friend, wonderful, wonderful writing. i look forward to seeing you again soon. >> absolutely. they probably have the best excuse ever. next, the remarkable story of those two stranded astronauts and if they can do it, you can, too. , too. get the rest to be your best with non-habit forming zzzquil. ♪ ♪

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♪♪ now today's other top stories. improving weather is helping crews gain ground on 31 wildfires in southern california. the blazes have been destroying

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a new book explores the history of the u.s. presidency from george washington through joe biden, offering fresh insights into how each leader shaped their role in their place in american history. done with interviews of most living presidents with a host of scholars, the book illuminates presidential leadership and remind citizens of the decisions they have to make about our country's future.

joining me is david rubenstein, he served as the deputy assistant to president carter for domestic policy and is author of the new book, "the higher calling", conversations on the american presidency. david, welcome. it is wonderful to speak with you, i have told you i am a fan of your podcast, as well. trust in american institutions are declining and have record low approval ratings. did you write this book to address that and show where we have been and should be when considering the american presidency? >> well my wrote it in part so i could inspire people to learn more about the president and vote. we have about 160 million people who will vote in this presidential election. 80 million people, 80 million people who are eligible to vote will not vote. i think our democracy would be much stronger if we have everyone eligible actually voting. >> absolutely. write about the vast experts and presidents, are their character inconsistencies and what about motivations to seek

the presidency? are they typically good for the country or in pursuit of personal power? i am curious about ego, how much of that is involved and if there is a difference between the ego and confidence. >> you have to be fairly self- confident to say to 330 million americans you are the most confident and competent and qualified to be present in the united states. of course, that is confidence. we have already always had self- confident and elitist. george washington had self- confidence. he was the only president we ever had who was elected unanimously twice but he didn't really want the job. most people today really do want the job. you have to ask yourself why do they want it? john kennedy was assassinated, richard nixon had to resign and then jimmy carter was not reelected. george herbert walker bush not reelected, ronald reagan was almost assassinated. a lot of bad things happen to

this people in this job and it is unfortunate those things happen but fortunately, we have people that want the job and we have had people over the years who have sought the job and actually gotten the job. >> so let me ask you about donald trump, who you have interviewed twice. once in 2014 he would say he would run for president and again on a day before he appeared in court before his hush money trial in new york. you asked what he was most worried about in the next four years. i am curious about what he told you and you have a sense on how he would use the presidency? >> yeah, i think he would use the presidency as an opportunity to change the course of the country. he is obviously not happy with the course of the country. he would say it is very lonely. he spent many times and holidays by himself. the government was shutdown, he had to be there, his family was in florida. it is not an easy job for everybody and i think donald trump realizes that. i think he wants it again because he has the chance to change the country's direction. kamala harris has the same

view. everybody, if only they could get to be president, they could make the country a better place and in some cases, some people made it a better place. president obama, with obama care really change the situation in the united states and i don't think that will change very much. they are likely to keep the healthcare system we have, despite efforts to change it. i think people have done wonderful things as president but remember, there are a lot of disappointments on the job and nobody ever gets everything they want. >> former president george w. bush showed the political moment by saying, you wonder why populism is on the rise. it starts with taxing taxpayers money and giving it to the powerful. he was referring to the federal government's bailout of the federal banks during the 2007 fiscal crisis. what did president bush mean by this and do you agree with him? >> he was a populist by nature. he did not grow up in connecticut, like his father,