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ayman mohyeldin. >> and i am ali velshi. we are continuing our coverage of the reported gunfire and your president donald trump today in florida. >> we are learning details about what the fbi is now calling an apparent attempted assassination of the former president's golf course in west palm beach. florida police can now identify the man who shot. the individual's name, ryan wesley routh, born february 18th, 1966, according to three senior law enforcement officials briefed on the matter. >> the suspect is in custody. a short while ago, the west palm beach sheriff's office describe the scene where they found him. >> no, in the bushes where this guy was is an ak-47 style rifle with a scope, two backpacks, which were hung on the fence, that had ceramic tile in them, and a gopro, which he was going

to take pictures with point >> it is shortly after the incident, the trump campaign issued a statement saying that donald trump is safe and unharmed. abc is reporting that he departed mar-a-lago shortly after the incident. he has since returned. joining us now, john, nbc news law enforcement and intelligence correspondent. i know you have been working this very hard since the news broke bread we now have the name of the suspect. tell us what we know about the suspect and how this went down and what we know about this apparent assassination attempt. >> apparently, this happened at approximately 1:30 p.m. today. the local sheriff's office gets a phone call from the secret service saying shots had been fired near the golf course in west palm beach, florida. local sheriffs said that they sealed off that area and began a search for this individual that the secret service engaged with folks looking at the shot earlier today prior to this incident, trump getting out of the golf cart. the secret service, of course they're going to be surrounding the former president or anybody

who is playing golf, but they also send people two, three, four goals ahead to determine if anybody is hanging out in the trees there, if there is anybody that they are shouldn't be there that we should keep our eyes on. apparently they see this individual, and it is unclear at this series of events, but at some point, the secret service and fired at this person, several hundred feet from him. he drops the weapon, then an eyewitness bravely and quickly thinking takes a photograph, not only of the alleged suspect vehicle, but of the license plate. they take that license plate information, adjust for purposes of the discussion, a hypothetical, say it is abc 1234, they put that into a database where license plate readers are constantly scanning is going by, those overhead gantries that you see on the highway, this is on i-95. they determined he is on i-95, he is headed north, and he was recently spotted in a location near another county but they asked for that other counties help.

they were able to take this individual into custody, apparently without any incident, according to law horseman officials there. that's how this all goes down. the point you are making as we started this program, they found that gopro, they found those bags containing ceramic tiles. you're looking at the photographs there, as well as the weapon he allegedly had. what happens from here, they're going to basically -- from the state level, they have the ability to almost charge immediately, so they will be able to do that, they will conduct searches and execute search warrants, and then the fbi says they are investigating this incident. it is potentially a federal crime. it will be up to the justice department, the u.s. attorney's office, and fbi to determine whether this individual has met that threshold, likely he has. and at that point, they will be able to charge, potentially federally. we will have to see how all this comes together, but that is kind of the state of play as we speak you're a little after 7:00 p.m. eastern time.

>> you talked about the pictures of the images that were released there, the backpack hung on the fence, as well as a gopro camera. walk us through what the fbi plans to do with that evidence right now, and how that might open other doors to them, other questions that they might have about the profile of the suspect, his motivations, or his plans. >> sure, ayman, based on a preliminary search of public records, this individual does have a criminal record. whether that could have been disqualifying for him purchasing the gun, that is something they will definitely take a look at. the atf will take a look at that, too, likely. they will look at what was in the backpack. apparently, there were ceramic tiles. people will be asking about that, the individual might have been using that -- you might use a ballistic vest, ceramic panels, was using that to try to basically provide a shield for himself? that is very much an open question, we will have to see what that is about. then you mentioned the gopro, the gopro, he may have started ahead of time. he may have other images or video on there.

what is on that could be very helpful. they have got his vehicle, obviously. so, what information and what types of things could they find in there? there are some additional indications this person has a social media presence, so cannot be potentially helpful when we talk about a motive, when you talk about somebody's background, and if he could be charged with this attempted assassination. so, to put all that together here, that is going to take some time, obviously, as you well know. that is why we may not have any decisions on charges or where this goes federally, if it goes anywhere. until perhaps sometime tomorrow. >> just a little behind the curtain here, whenever these things happen, tom is always on it and our emails are always going up with every incremental piece of information tom has, but one of the things, tom, you're very good at reminding us all and we are reminding the audience is that this information can change. so, the thing that you think you know at 7:05 eastern could be entirely different news at 8:05 eastern. so, we are giving you the best we know right now, as we know

it. anton, the second you have something new, the camera is on, join us. thank you, my friend. just before 4:00 p.m. eastern, donald trump sent a message via campaign email. in it, he said, "before rumors start spiraling out of control, i wanted you to hear this first. i am safe and well! nothing will slow me down, i will never surrender!." vaughn hillyard has reaction from donald trump and his campaign. good evening to you. i understand the public has received a fundraising text from team trump, what does it say? >> so far, the fundraising texts are kind of the most up- to-date information or words we have gotten from donald trump and his campaign. one fundraising text that just came through reads on the "from trump, my resolve is stronger after another attempt on my life." another said i am safe and well, i'm thankful to have your support here. we are waiting to hear anymore official word from the trump campaign or donald trump himself.

there has been no social media post, even on his truth account since this place -- played out earlier this afternoon. i was talking with somebody familiar with the incident as it unfolded, that he was about on the fifth hole when gunshots rang out at that point in time. the secret service covered him before removing him from the course and taking him back to the club. he was golfing with his friend, real estate investor steve wycoff. this was a down day for him on the campaign trail, he had no public offense, he got back late last night from a west coast swing. he has no official campaign events tomorrow either, before going to michigan on tuesday. it is not clear whether he is still going to proceed with his campaign schedule at this point in time. undoubtedly, there is a lot the secret service will be looking at. he travels with a rotating detailed and presence around him. and we heard from that press conference an acknowledgment from law enforcement that because he is a former president, not the current

president, that he has a smaller secret service detail that is around him on days like this when he has not had a campaign rally. this is the second time, i don't think we can understate the gravity of this moment, we are 51 days away from the election, one that is already intense and it is marjorie taylor greene, just in the last hour, tweeted out and her words that this election is a life or death election. we have heard from voters on the ground, suggesting that they see a potential civil war at play. there have been concerns about ever-increasing violence, not only directed towards individuals like former president trump, but members of congress. we have seen threats made to prosecutors and to judges. we have seen the likes of local election officials face threats here. of course, nothing recent here compares to the former president being shot, and now, apparently, issued or intending to have him in his sights with an ar rifle here on this sunday

afternoon. i don't think that we know, we can't forecast what is coming in our politics here today, but it is clear there are crazy people in this country who have the intent to use violence to inflict harm on those they do not agree with your point this is an ever-increasing security risk that we all are watching it unfold. he has gone back to having some outdoor rallies. he has had plexiglass placed in front of him and behind him at the podium's at which he stands. but over the course of the last two months, there is an extra level of acknowledgment of what this country is facing. we have watched members of congress to be shot and shot at. we have watched the united states capitol be attacked by thousands of individuals in order to try to stop the election results. it is not clear what is in the last month, we have had thn att

life. >> we were talking about this the first time, the fact that we are talking about it a second time is really, really something. thank you for your excellent reporting on this. vaughn we will stay close to you on anything you hear from the trump campaign or team trump. vaughn hillyard, thank you. and we have reaction from the white house, a statement released earlier said the president and vice president have been briefed about the security incident at the trump international golf course where former president donald trump was golfing there. relieved to know he is safe, they will be kept regularly updated by their team. let's cross over to aaron gilchrist. obviously, something like this reaching the highest levels of our government, walk us through what the white house knows about it, and certainly whether or not there are going to be any changes to the vice president's schedule, given the fact that she is also

campaigning herself for this presidential role, and requires the secret service protection. >> you are right. at this point, we haven't heard anything about any changes to the security posture around the vice president, and to be frank with you, it would be unusual if we did hear anything about changes to the security posture. the secret service doesn't typically share that sort of information, for obvious reasons, i think. at the same time, as you know, we know that the vice president, her running mate, president biden for that matter, all have activities that they plan to participate in away from their homes, away from the white house, away from washington. so, there will be extra scrutiny, extra eyes on what happens around those principles. we know that the vice president is not scheduled to leave d.c. again until tuesday when she is supposed to travel to philadelphia for what we believe is an indoor event with the national association of black journalists. at the same time, as we think

about what happened in florida today, we know from two u.s. secret service officials that the acting director of the secret service, ronald rowe, is on his way to florida. it is worth noting that he started his law enforcement career in west palm beach, another has been another incident involving a former president that is under secret service protection. when ronald rowe became the head of that agency in july after the director kimberly cheatle resigned after the assassination attempt on donald trump, this a part of his work was to rebuild trust in agency and the men and women who were tasked with protecting presidents and former presidents. so, to have something like this happen so soon after that incident back in july, it pushes the secret service into a place where we get information. i think the press conference we saw today with the secret service agent speaking there, he was able to share more information that we might typically get so quickly from the secret service, and we know

the secret service director is on his way to florida. even though the fbi is taking the lead on the investigation, he is going to be on the ground to talk to his people about what happened and how to prevent anything of that nature from happening again. we did hear a statement from the white house that president biden and vice president marissa had been briefed. vice president harris put a post out on x shortly after this happened, saying she was glad former president trump was safe and said violence has no place in america. her running mate, governor tim walz of minnesota, echoed that same violence -- statement, violence has no place in our country, it is not who we are as a nation. and it is the extent of anything we have heard from people running against donald trump in this campaign. this is not a moment for politics, but one for people to really sort of buckle down and look at the realities around some of the violence and the danger that is present with these political figures. >> erin, thank you very much, we will stay close to you on this story. joining us now, a former secret service special agent and law e

good to have you here, thank you. everybody agrees, violence should have no place in our politics. but these individuals with weaponry, we don't know the motivation behind this at all yet, seem to have a very big place in our politics right now. and the secret service is now tasked with a very difficult thing, the second potential assassination attempt on donald trump so far. >> yes, in two months. this is unheard of, usually we see them once every couple decades. i'm actually not surprised. i think the fact that we had that incident in butler, how close it came, what does it do? it emboldens other people, gives them the idea, oh, i think i can do that, too. and as things are unfolding, this is what we are looking at. i don't want to be a projector of bad news but i wouldn't be surprised if we see this again. secret service is absolutely going to be amping up their assets. they don't want this to happen again. they are going to be looking at

having outer perimeters a lot more secure. the same incident, if we look at this, this happened where again? outdoors. at butler, it was at a rally, here he is outside golfing. it is so difficult to secure environments like this, you need so many more resources. u.s. secret service is typically towards the center. outside is usually local law enforcement. now, i can absolutely see them asking for more assets. not all local authorities have the numbers, so they are going to be reaching out to perhaps even military. there is some speculation about that, saying we need help. also, it is not just trump. you're going to be looking at vice president kamala harris, president biden. secret service also protects former presidents, usually that stays a little bit low, those contingencies also tend to be small. when you have actors like this, it is interesting, because with this stuff, they found a gopro. because in these situations, they want to be seen, the attackers.

i want people to know, i want to broadcast that at the trump rally, what did we have there? lots of cameras. one of the things that we look for with attacks, when people select their targets, they want an audience. in this situation, i would be really interested to see what was on that gopro and what he intended to do with that. >> let me ask you to compare and contrast butler to what we saw today, because the consensus has been that the butler incident or the assassination attempt was a failure by the way the secret service integrated with local law enforcement, securing the site. eyewitnesses said they were identifying the shooter at the time to the secret service, to which they took a slow response. that has been a driving force of the investigation so far. the communication from the secret service to not call it an assassination attempt immediately, very different to what we see play out. it was within a few hours that the fbi cannot and said this is an apparent assassination attempt, and we heard from law enforcement in the briefing that was a very quick, integrated response between the secret service and the local law enforcement that was able

to track down this vehicle and the suspect and apprehend him. >> two things here. first, in this scenario, the agents, from what i understand, heard the gunshots. they are merely surrounded him, from what i understand, secured him, and evacuated. that is one area there. that was really corresponding with law enforcement, because from what i understand, it was an agent who engaged the shooter. the other thing is -- the second part is what is interesting is actually in this scenario, another witness who was able to get the tags of this person that helped local police. so, it begs the question, do we need more assets in these outer perimeters? if that witness wasn't there, what we have these license plates? just little things like that, which remind me from butler, it was witnesses who saw the shooter on the rooftop. so, this comes back to manpower, eyes above, drones, tech cameras. something is shifting and satiety we are seeing more and more of these attacks. you are also seeing more

officials. it used to be just a president, somebody of that grandiose position would get these types of threats, but now this influx is coming in. there are two questions, why is this happening, what is the psyche of america going to, what are people's mental health conditions? when we typically would see these threats come in, a big player would be mental health issues. but now i think we are seeing a little bit of a deviation, maybe it is not all mental health, maybe other things are happening that are fragmenting people's perception of what they need to do to have their voice heard. so, i definitely think you are going to be seeing a massive influx and you're going to see law enforcement a general kind of coming in. also, in new york city, we have the united nations coming up. that is u.s. secret service. having foreign heads of state come to the u.s. the public may not know this, when a foreign head of state, prime minister, king, president, when they come to the u.s., we give them secret service protection. why? we don't want anybody getting assassinated on u.s. soil. it is that business for america.

massive manpower, and resources. all this costs money. >> and all these leaders, by the way, talking about the u.n., you see them when they arrive at an event, they like to get out of the car a little early, walk so the cameras can see them. and for the secret service, this is all a nightmare. people whether they are campaigning or want to be seen and out there, that's what leaders like to project, they're not scared, they're not hiding, but you're not sending a message to a terrorist group, who are you sending a message to? is it as individuals, like you said, whatever the reason may be, are coming up with these things on their own. it is a hard psyche to fight when you don't know what the psyche is. but i think right now, you just have to get to the election and you have to keep everybody safe. everyone is a little bit shortsighted. long-term trying to fix this, that is one thing, but right now, keep everybody live, keep everybody safe, manpower, assets, and really understanding what is going on. you know what also really helps? undercover agents and law

enforcement in civilian clothes, kind of being around the area, listening to what is going on. and i think also, just people in general, are you hearing things, are people posting things? have a voice. we are seeing civilians, witnesses at the trump rally, and also at this event here when he was golfing, playing a role where they are actually helping. >> remarkable. because by having that photograph and being able to run those tags, they were able to pull this person over. >> even butler, they saw the suspect climb through the air conditioning vent and get on that roof. when you are assessing the threat, and we have also been talking in the post butler assassination about this iranian plot to go after former president donald trump, what is the harder aspect to protect against? the lone wolf who could be self radicalized, who may not necessarily have any affiliation that leaves evidence to thwart an assassination or the state or nonstate actor that has a chain and command,

communications, intercepts, and full degree of intelligence involved? >> the lone wolf, because i don't know who you are and you are one in how many? and unless you have really made a mark out there for me to notice you, i'm not going to pay attention to you. the assets overseas, countries overseas, you have got the intelligence agency. that's what the cia is therefore, that's what they do, espionage, collecting evidence. so, all along, you have got jamming and trying to thwart tracking and all of that, you need to know what you're paying attention to, what countries are making threats? so, you already have eyes on someone like the ron. but a shooter who is 20 years old like and butler, or this individual, what is going to be the story behind that? and he is much, much older. we are seeing there is no profile for these individuals. it is just such a drastic spread of types of personas, that is going to be harder. the person who comes in. and that's why the only true way to thwart this is having

stronger perimeter securities, magnetometers, assets, manpower, you need eyes. not just witnesses who say, hey, i got the license plate. >> can i ask really quickly, were you surprised in a press conference that the local police or sheriff said that the secret service did not have a presence on the perimeter of the golf course, they were a couple hundred yards ahead of him, a few golf holes ahead of him on the course, but they didn't have a perimeter secured, because he is not the current president. and immediately, i was thinking, he is a former president, i understand that, but he also just survived an assassination attempt two months earlier. >> so, usually out of perimeter, even with a sitting president, usually it is always local police. you want your assets close and you want less secret service out side. i can see that changing, but again, there agents are finite. they are not going to be able to do a massive hiring process. this is unheard of. typically, local police have always worked, state police have always worked with now, the question is why it isn't secret service here? why isn't secret service here?

could that change long-term? absolutely. because we are seeing the issues and communications and things happening. i went through secret service training, i actually went through nypd training as a police officer, then u.s. secret service training. it is different but it doesn't mean one branch is incompetent, it just means protection requires a different way of thinking and different way of assessing assets and communication, all these things come into play. i do think you're going to see a massive influx for the u.s. secret service, and not the traditional relying on these other assets. not that they are incompetent or not great, it's just the game is changing. the game is changing. >> wanting that tom was talking about, and i saw the reaction when he was talking about, they're saying this backpack also had ceramic tiles. people might wonder, why has he got ceramic tiles? ayman and i have been in war zones where we had ceramic plates in our bulletproof vests. is that what we believe they are referring to? >> that's exactly right. you caught me when i did that.

when you wear a ballistic vest, what's interesting, ballistic vests are typically made of something called kevlar, it is actually fabric, layer upon layer. when you're in a tactical element, sometimes what they do is they had ceramic plates, which is even stronger. so, that stops something. when i heard that, immediately i knew he probably had those, maybe positioned them a certain way, so that he could take a shot. it will be interesting to see, did those ceramic plates that he had worked the shot that was taken at him through the secret service agent? because from what we know, he wasn't hurt, the shot never actually hit him. >> right. what you make of the fact that he was able to get away and whether that says something about his profile? the fact that he was engaged by the secret service through the fence, but was able to ultimately get up and run away. there was a suggestion by one of the former secret service agents i was speaking to about how it was suggested that he may want to live to try another

time. >> i think maybe he was thinking let me get out of here. when you see incidents like these, often the shooters, they come in with this kind of -- i'm just going to say it, like this suicide -- this die by police mentality, i'm going to do this and i'm going to die. so, for him to escape, it is a little bit unique because he didn't have that gopro. because when they found his body eventually, he would have it footage of the event. he was able to get into his vehicle and escape. so, i am also thinking, how did that happen? because from what we know, they do not intercept him until he had left the area. >> was in martin county, about 45 miles north of palm beach. >> so, it was license plate readers that caught him. so, that would be another new asset to put in the mix. to have somebody to be able to respond quickly and effectively, not just somebody driving away. why wasn't anybody there? >> a lot of questions.

we have seen this in the past with gopro's, where mass shooters in the past have streamed and livestreamed their shootings and recorded it and posted it online. obviously, it has a chilling effect when you think about it. >> thank you so much, an msnbc law enforcement analyst, a former secret service special agent, and as we have learned today, also training as an nypd police officer, she knows a lot about this stuff, thank you. >> we are back with more breaking coverage right after this. ng coverage right after this. e in half the time. oh, my-gration. look at him go! yeah, dawn powerwash is unique. it absorbs grease with three cleaning boosters, removing it five times faster. ooh, for beak's sake, that was fast. and powerwash can replace multiple cleaning products. —wooh, fumble recovery! —ooh, those suds got game. dawn powerwash. the better grease getter. thursday night football on prime. it's on. the new england patriots take on the new york jets, as thursday night football is on. stream thursday night football.

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secret service agent stationed ahead of donald trump at his golf club in west palm beach, florida, spotted a rifle sticking out of a fence. the secret service agent opened fire on the gunman before he took off in a black nissan, according to law enforcement officials. we now have a photo of the suspect whose name is ryan wesley routh, born february 18th, 1966, that is according to three senior law enforcement officials briefed on the matter, and according to official records, he lives in hawaii, but previously lived in greensboro, north carolina. >> we do understand he had run- ins with the law in the past, and he does have some sort of social media profile, so investigators are looking into all of that right now, but at the moment, we have no information by way of motive. it was a lot of evidence found on the scene. donald trump is out of harms way. the suspect is in custody, according to three senior law enforcement officials who were briefed on the matter. let's bring in drake taylor, who has been following the trump campaign, for the latest.

jake, let's listen together to what the palm beach county sheriff ric bradshaw said earlier today. >> and at this level that he is at right now, he is not the sitting president. if he was, we hope would have had the entire golf course around it, but because he is not, security is limited to areas that the secret service deems possible. so, i would imagine the next time he comes to the golf course, there will probably be more people around the perimeter. the secret service did exactly what they should have done. >> jake, that's a tricky one. the secret service is usually right around. when it is protection, there right around the president, and its local law enforcement, it's state law enforcement. what you make of that information and how is it being received? >> ayman and ali, we know ever since the first assassination attempt on trump, there has been ramped up safety measures for the former president,

including reduced outdoor rallies and the usage of bulletproof glass at certain events. we don't know yet what the security is going to look like going forward but i can imagine, following precedent, through a continued to be some ramped up measures. but for a brief recap of what we know so far, this started earlier today with a campaign statement earlier this afternoon from trump's team, saying the former president is okay, but there had been gunshots fired in his vicinity. then shortly after that, we heard from a trump fundraising email, saying he was safe. now from the fbi, we know what took place was an apparent attempted assassination on the former president, that was while he was playing golf at a course alongside his friend near a home in palm beach, florida. we know now that a person is in custody after shots were fired. a representative for the secret service at the press conference said it wasn't clear whether the suspect was able to take a

shot at the agents before the agent shot at the suspect but we also know an ar style rifle was recovered from the scene, according to law enforcement officials. trump then left the golf course a couple hours after the incident, which occurred shortly before 2:00 p.m., and headed back to his mar-a-lago resort. >> jake, i know you have been covering the trump campaign for a while now. reflect on the evolution from the first assassination attempt to this one. what has changed about the trump campaign? obviously there was talk about trumpet being more somber, more reflective after having survived that assassination attempt. but as someone who speaks to the trump campaign on a daily basis, tell us a little bit about what your contacts and sources i've been telling you about the change in mood that he has survived yet another assassination attempt? >> i spoke on the phone recently with a source who had just spoken with mr. trump on the phone. they said he was talking about two things after this apparent attempted assassination. one was his golf game, and second, mr. trump kept repeating

that he was happy to be alive. other sources have told nbc, the former president is currently in good spirits. this all comes after that first attempted assassination attempt against mr. trump back in july. and as far as things are going to go moving forward, mr. trump wasn't supposed to do any media or interviews today or tomorrow. the campaign is saying that plan is now in flux, but that his campaign schedule for the week ahead, visiting battleground states like north carolina and michigan, those things are still the plan going forward. we also were supposed to hear from mr. trump tomorrow via an x event, where he was going to launch a new cryptocurrency. as of now, that still stands to be the plan, and maybe the first time we hear from mr. trump after today's events. x jake, thank you, stay close to us if you get any more information from the trump campaign, we want to hear about it. jake trailer, our breaking news coverage carries on after this break. on after this break.

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we are continuing to follow breaking news from florida. the fbi confirms that it is investigating what appears to be an attempted assassination of donald trump at his golf course in west palm beach. this comes just nine weeks after the former president survived the attempted assassination on his life in butler, pennsylvania. donald trump is fine, he was not hurt. the suspect is now identified as ryan wesley routh, age 58. we have new reaction from vice president kamala harris, who says i have been briefed on reports of gunshots fired near former president trump and his property in florida, am glad he is safe, violence has no place in america. we also have reaction from her vice presidential running mate, governor tim walz, saying that he and his wife gwen are glad that donald trump is safe, adding violence has no place in our country, it is not who we are as a nation. >> let's bring an nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken delaney. we have been talking to you

through the course of the afternoon since the story first broke, where learning more about the suspect, now identified as ryan wesley routh. walk us through how the investigation is going, how they're able to piece this together, and more importantly perhaps, the most pressing, outstanding questions right now for the investigators. >> right, so, first let's talk about what the police have said. we know about what they have found, which is that he appeared to be laying and waiting for mr. trump as donald trump was playing golf outside the perimeter of the golf course in the bushes and the foliage. secret service encountered him appointing an assault rifle in the direction of the golf course, and open fire. and apparently, he wasn't hit, he was able to escape into an suv, but using license plate readers and other technology, the police quickly tracked down the suv, pulled him over, and arrested him. apparently was not struck by the secret service gunfire, he is in custody. they recovered what they described as an ak-47,

certainly an assault rifle, some ceramic plates, a gopro, suggesting he may have wanted to stream or film whatever he was trying to do, and they're calling it an apparent assassination attempt. so, those are the bare facts. at last check, he wasn't cooperating, he wasn't talking about motives or things like that. now, obviously we are being very careful, but there is a lot of information that we are going through right now where it appears that this man had an extensive criminal record in north carolina some felony convictions. there is an active social media profile where he is talking about recruiting fires to fight and ukraine. on the side of the ukrainians. he has maybe even gone there himself, we are trying to develop that information. so, there is a long history with this person, this is exactly the kind of thing the fbi is poring over right now, the digital footprint, all of his accounts. they are using search warrants, which obviously we don't have, so they're going to the providers and getting all the internal records to put

together a comprehensive profile of this man, to try to figure out why he did this. that of course, there will be questions asked about whether all the security steps were taken. i heard you talk to jake about the question of why there weren't more secret service at the golf course, why the entire golf course wasn't off-limits. i'm sure there will be more questions about that as this all unfolds. >> let's be clear for people who have been following us through the course of the evening or might have been seeing it on social media -- gunfire, distance from donald trump, was there any reporting that the suspect fired his weapon? we understand he was fired upon by the secret service at some distance. >> that's right, he was fired upon, and multiple law enforcement officials have told us they are not sure at this hour whether he fired his weapon, whether he tried to fire the weapon, jammed -- that just seems to be unclear in a fog of war situation.

but what law enforcement said was that donald trump was one to two goals behind the location where this suspect was, that mr. trump doesn't appear to have been in any particular danger at the moment, but obviously it was a lucky thing that the secret service found this person. if he was trying to conceal himself in a sniper position in foliage but it was an important thing that they did that, they were able to ward an apparent assassination attempt, even if those shots were actually fired at donald trump, still a very serious incident. in a very short period of time. >> i know we spoke extensively following the july 13th assassination attempt on the former president in butler, pennsylvania, but since you have been covering this day in and day out since then, talk about what had changed with the former president's security detail, the concern they had about being in outdoor spaces, the fact that the former president had been the survivor of an assassination attempt, and whether or not there were likely motivations from the shooter in pennsylvania that may lead them to think others may be out there.

what have you learned over the course of the last two months in terms of that investigation and what it pretends for the secret service today? >> yeah, well, the butler situation was obviously a colossal failure by the secret service, which is shaking the core of that agency. obviously, the director resigned. we are now learning about other secret service officers who are retiring in the wake of a very critical disciplinary report about what took place and what didn't happen in butler, so that was a catastrophic event for the secret service, and in the wake of that, they have taken a number of steps, most of which they don't reveal publicly, but a number of stamps to augment the security for donald trump. and don't forget, even before butler, they had information that there was an iranian plot to assassinate donald trump. i would then subplot was remains to be seen, but they knew that iran had aspirations to assassinate donald trump. and yet, still we have a situation where you heard the sheriff of palm beach county saying he didn't have the same level of protection that a

current sitting president has, and that is a question, right? like if you have the former president who is being targeted by assassins, why don't you have the maximum amount of security around that person? that is a question secret service will probably have to answer in the coming days, but there is no doubt. for example, they urged the trump campaign to stop doing outdoor rallies, and when the trump campaign didn't want to do that, they put bulletproof glass around mr. trump, they augmented his detail, they have got different people in there. we have seen more people around mr. trump when he is in public places, so they have taken steps. the question is have they taken enough steps? >> ken delaney, thank you as always and thanks for your continued reporting tonight, we will stay close to you on this topic. and we will be back with more just after a short break. afte ? service! ♪stand back i'm going to show ya,♪ ♪how doug and limu roll, yeah!♪ ♪♪ ♪you know you got to live it,♪

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two months after an attempt on donald trump's life at a rally in pennsylvania, questions are being raised about how this could have happened again. at a press conference earlier today, palm beach county sheriff ric bradshaw told reporters that law enforcement couldn't surround the entire golf course because trump is not currently the sitting president. joining me now is msnbc national security analyst, also a former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi. let me pose a question to you, frank, what do you make of that part of the press conference, that because he is a former president, he did not have the

outer perimeter secured as perhaps they should? but then he went on to say, i suspect the next time he comes down, it would be secured. >> i'm going to be honest with you, i think that was a bit self-serving. a bit defensive, with regard to the sheriff's department not wanting any blowback on this to happen to them. even when you're talking about the president of the united states, you are literally not going to ring all the area with secret service and law enforcement. yes, you will have far more secret service and law enforcement for a sitting president, but this notion that somehow, you know, with an iranian threat hanging over donald trump's head, which my sources tell me is quite valid, by the way, they take that very seriously, that we are still not seeing this. look, i look at this as a far more larger question, which is, i think in our society, we have just hit the market, where not

only can we not guarantee the protection of our most vulnerable people, our schoolchildren, but we can't even guarantee the protection of the most protected officials in our government, and that comes back not only to mental health, but to the access and pervasiveness of a assault style weapons in our society. and so, until we address that issue, the secret service is likely to tell you -- by the way, they have already told us after the butler event, the acting director of the secret service said publicly, an open carry states, we are highly challenged in protecting our protectees. that's where we are. you have got to decide whether we want to live like that. >> we were chatting about this on the breaker, this is a tough conversation, because we can't fairly say that our kids can go to school. we were discussing the fact that this attempted assassination, this guy was

found with ceramic plates. the reason parents, viewers of our show would know about ceramic plates, is because increasingly, parents by knapsacks that have ceramic plates in them for their kids, because it is ballistic protection. this is a world we are in, it has got nothing to do with political motivations, it's just the fact that we have a lot of guns and it is very hard to protect people against people who will use those guns for bad reasons. >> yeah, we are in a kind of protective -- defensive arms race, so to speak. so, the secret service is probably going to deploy a lot more technology, you're going to see a lot more drones overhead, and quite frankly, they should be doing that. my county sheriff's department response to 911 calls first with a drone, because the drone gets to your house before the police can get there, and it tells the responding officers what it sees. we need to see a lot more of that, but where does it end? you close the roads because someone is playing golf? you have got your drones up, you got a plane up, you have that half the sheriff's department and have the secret

service? where does it end before we say, wait a minute, what are people using to shoot at each other? >> frank, let's just try to sense a little bit the investigation, if we can, there's a lot of questions surrounding the butler, pennsylvania shooter, how a motivation two months out has not yet been established. there is no hard evidence to say he was leaning one way or the other in what motivated him. how rare is that when you have these types of incidents that are supposed to be -- as people have described, generational credit you're talking about assassination attempts on a political figure once every 30 years, and you have just had two in the span of two months against the same former president. >> i do think we are seeing something develop here, and it is not just the butler case and perhaps this case, because we don't have a lot of time to have gone through this particular person's social media, but i'm going to tell you, it's all over the place,

here we go again, right? it's to the right, to the left, it's in the middle. and i think we are seeing a trend here where people are more interested in seeking infamy and becoming a kind of celebrity, even postmortem. than they are about acting out on a political cause or a passion that they have, and we could speak for hours about where that came from. social media, et cetera, but don't be surprised if at the end of the day, we really don't know what happened here. and motivation. and butler, p.a., the fbi is insisting with the media in repeated briefings, very open briefings, look, we cannot assess his motive other than he wanted to do something big. didn't really matter who he did it to. x yet, we had someone from the secret service, former secret service on with us, and these days, the thing used to know of as a manifesto, they don't always happen.

people -- whatever it is they are playing out, there was a gopro, we are hearing, and that may really help with what the information is, but sometimes a gopro is simply to record what it is you are doing or transmit what it is you are doing. it becomes hard to ascribe political motivations to some of these shootings these days. let's indeed, and they will scour and scrub his computers and all his devices and his social media. don't be surprised if they find that he researched the butler shooter and other attempts at assassination, because there is a copycat factor here. there is no question about it, and the more these happen, the more likely it is we will see another copycat crime, which this could be. frank, always a pleasure, thank you so much. another live hour ahead. we are going to speak to dave ehrenberg, state attorney from palm beach, county, florida, which is apparent assassination attempt took place. >> when msnbc's life coverage continues right after this break. after this break.

good evening everyone. >> we're continuing our coverage of gunfire near trump's golf course in florida. >> nbc news can now report the identitity of the man who was shot