on issues of the economy. polls suggest despite strong economic metrics, people aren't happy with the biden economy. how does harris manage that going forward? we should note again, both president biden and vice president harris strongly condemned what we saw yesterday in florida, the attempted assassination of donald trump. saying simply, there is no place for political violence in our country. we certainly echo that. white house reporter for "bloomberg," akyla gardner. thank you, as always. thank you for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. well, you have to understand, the golf course is surrounded by shrubbery. when someone is there, they're out of sight. at this level, he is not the sitting president. if he was, we would have had this entire golf course surrounded. because he's not, security is limited to the areas that the secret service deems possible.

>> the sheriff in palm beach county, florida, yesterday, describing the security situation at donald trump's golf course after an apparent assassination attempt on the former president. this morning, there are still a lot of questions about the suspect, his past, and whether the secret service is doing enough to protect donald trump. we're going to go through all of that. for now, the former president has not made any changes to his campaign schedule. meanwhile, his running mate made the rounds on the sunday shows, defending his and trump's false claims about migrants in springfield, ohio. we'll play for you those new comments, including jd vance seeming to admit the stories are made up. also ahead, new polling shows the former president's lead is shrinking significantly in a state he's easily won in 2016 and 2020. it comes as more republicans are pledging their support for vice president kamala harris this

fall. we'll read for you what a group of former staffers from president ronald reagan are saying. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, september 16th. a man is in custody this morning after shots were fired in what the fbi is calling an apparent attempted assassination of donald trump at his golf course in west palm beach, florida, yesterday. >> the shots were fired, by all reports, from the secret service toward the man. >> the former president posted on social media last night that he was rushed to safety during the incident, stating, quote, it was certainly an interesting day. he also thanked secret service and law enforcement, writing in all capital letters, quote, "the job was done. absolutely outstanding." trump was playing a round of golf in his mar-a-lago course around 2:00 p.m. when secret service agents spotted a rifle with a scope in the bushes outside the course. >> they spotted it.

what happens is, the golf course, for those who know the area, the golf course is on two very active streets. there's a huge perimeter. what the secret service do, not only now but when donald trump was president, they would advance the holes and would go a couple of holes ahead of the president to make sure that the coast was clear. as you'll hear here, even though some of the press conference wasn't as clear as it should have been, left some questions open, what happened was, the secret service went a couple of holes ahead of the president, former president, and they saw a rifle sticking out. they fired shots, and then the man ran away. he got caught soon after. but the secret service, though, did as horrible of a job as they did in butler. as lindsey graham said, they're

overworked. they're exhausted. they don't have a life of their own. they need more reresources. yes, they do need more resources. in this case, though, as donald trump said, they did an outstanding job. something i haven't said of the secret service certainly after butler in a very long time. >> take a listen. >> fortunately, we were able to locate a witness that came to us and said, "hey, i saw the guy running out of the bushes. he jumped into a black nissan, and i took a picture of the vehicle and the tag." which was great. in the bushes where this guy was is an ak-47 style rifle with a scope, two backpacks that has ceramic tile, and a gopro, which he was going to take pictures of. >> the tip from the witness helped lead to an arrest. the man was taken into custody and was identified as

58-year-old ryan wesley ruth, according to three senior law enforcement officials. his identity was not released during yesterday's news conference. donald trump left in a motorcade a couple hours later and headed back to his mar-a-lago resort, according to a source familiar with the matter. it will not affect trump's campaign schedule, including stops in michigan, north carolina, new york, and washington, d.c. vice president kamala harris released a statement that she was, quote, deeply disturbed by the possible assassination attempt of former president trump today. adding, she is thankful trump is safe. the incident occurred two months after an attempt on the former president's life in july at a campaign rally in pennsylvania. let's bring in nbc news national law enforcement and intelligence correspondent tom winter. also with us, the host of "way

too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. >> tom, thank you so much for being with us. a couple questions just to make sure everybody that's tuning in this morning has it clear. the secret service going a couple of holes ahead of the president, as they do, they keep a protective double around him. at this point, they kept a protective bubble around, saw a gun sticking out of the bushes. the guy was on the other side of the perimeter. he was not on the golf course, is that right? he was outside the fence, right? >> that's right. >> before he fired any shots, i guess he may have been getting set up, that's when the secret service fired shots at him, right? >> exactly right, joe. it's still unclear whether or not he was able to get off a shot or not. we don't have any indication of that. there were initial points. either way, it would have been

directed at the secret service and not against the former president, republican nominee. to your point, yes, it does seem like the plan here worked. he is not, donald trump, is not the president of the united states. if he was the president of the united states, that street would have been blocked off. there would have been additional agents ahead of where the president was. again, if trump was, in fact, the president at the time, or if it was joe biden golfing on that golf course, for instance, in that street where the individual appears to have set up. there are busy streets that flank this course, and the street would have been blocked off, that person would have had a hard time getting to the location. the suspect is ryan wesley routh, born in february 1966. not clear what the potential motive may have been here. you're looking at a photo of him. i believe this was taken in ukraine where he traveled to in 2022. this individual espoused a number of strong pro-ukrainian views and tried to implore americans to travel there, to

help the ukrainians after they were attacked and invaded, unprovoked by russia. that's something that is out there as far as a political belief. his criminal history is extensive, and that's perhaps an understatement. over 100 charges lodged against him over the years. this morning, while there's no initial indication or any sort of evidence that this individual may have had an accomplice or somebody with him at the golf course yesterday, i think there is a big question in law enforcement circles as to how he was able to purchase this weapon. it would at least appear, or some indications that he would have been prohibited by federal law and state law from buying this weapon. if, in fact, somebody bought it for him because he knew he couldn't buy one, or somebody sold it to him illegally, that's a potential additional charge for somebody else. we do expect him to be charged federally. i know someone who appears regularly on this program, dave aronberg, said they'll move

forward with charges. i just checked, the federal court docket in florida, nothing has been unsealed or filed yet that we can see publicly. it'll be the u.s. attorney's office out of miami that will likely bring this case. >> a guy with a rap sheet this long, it would be very distressing if he were able to buy an ar-15 style weapon. so perhaps he did get some help there, or maybe he did what so many others do, buy their guns illegally. jonathan lemire, a long rap sheet from this guy. he actually, in 2016, he supported donald trump, but then he was disillusioned with donald trump well before the ukrainian war, the russia and ukraine war, the russian invasion. saw some possible support for other republican candidates in 2024. what do you know? >> yeah, you're right. it was on his social media

account. he had suggested that he had backed trump in 2016 and then soured on him. there was also tweets suggesting some support for nikki haley, vivek ramaswamy, and the like. his politics, though, fairly unclear at this point. certainly, we should give credit to the secret service, as you did, joe. >> yes. >> that this is -- you know, as much as butler county went wrong, the incident in pennsylvania two months ago, seems like yesterday they did everything exactly right. these are the sort of incidents that do happen from time to time. perhaps not as close to the principal, like this one was, where a man had a gun and was preparing to strike, but there are incidents all the time where secret service disrupts these sort of incidents. they'll arrest someone who poses some threat to the president or vice president alike. >> part of the confusion leading into the press conference yesterday was that there was just some bad, misinformation that came out very early. people came out with statements very early. it started with shots fired in the vicinity of donald trump, suggesting at donald trump.

others, there were stories for a couple hours that secret service saw the direction in which the shots were fired from, then we find out later, though, it was jumbled at the press conference, we find out later that it appears only shots fired were from the secret service toward the man. to get him to do exactly what he did. >> right. no shots fired at trump who, at that point, was still several holes away. >> right. >> he was then rushed to safety by the secret service. tom, what more do we know about this individual? you know, expected arraignment today. we should learn, i would think, more then, but sources telling you anything about motivation as to why he would have done this? just also speak to us a little more about the danger of these sort of lone wolf kind of would-be assassinations pose. >> sure. as far as this individual, we're not told he's made any statement. apparently, he was very calm at the time of arrest. he has experience being

arrested, but he was apparently very calm at the time he was arrested. there were no statements that were made there, according to the folks we've spoken with. dave aronberg again said that on this network's air last night. there's no indication he's made any statements toward motive. as joe pointed out, as you pointed out, we've been talking this morning about the political beliefs, things he put on twitter in the past, now x, things on his facebook account, both of which have been taken down at this stage. there's different ideologies or things he wished happened politically. does that necessarily mean a motive as it pertains to yesterday and yesterday afternoon, not necessarily. obviously, investigators are going to have to be able to put that together. you talk about the lone wolf, the person who isn't on anybody's radar. taking a step back, the overall picture of security, we are less than a mile away where we're sitting this morning from the united nations. a week from today, a week from this morning, over 100 foreign

dignitaries, leaders, world leaders, leaders tied up with their countries in war, talking about ukraine and russia, what's going on in the middle east with israel, hamas, hezbollah, iran. put it together, this is an enormous security challenge for the secret service. that is always a huge security challenge for the secret service. >> oh, yeah. >> now, you have this backdrop. they can't wait for congress to appropriate money this week or next week. they can't wait for somebody to come up with a new plan. i think there are going to be serious discussions, and i'm told they started last night. how does the rest of this presidential campaign work? with these candidates crisscrossing the country, we are told the threats to donald trump, quite obviously from what we've seen the last two months, are very high. but his opponent, vice president kamala harris, the threats to her are high, as well. you have family members and running mates for both candidates. you have a president in the white house with the nuclear codes and all the things that come with being the commander in

chief who deserves and is required by law to have the protection that joe biden has. putting it all together, what is going to happen here going forward? how much of a lean will the secret service put on local law enforcement? how much of a lean will they put on other agencies to say, these guys need help. they need bodies out there. it is different from normal law enforcement work, so it is not something where you can say, one day, i'm investigating a crime, and i can switch over to protecting somebody. no, it's very different. it's a special skill set and special training. they definitely need additional help. it appears, based on the people i'm talking to. you start talking about family members, talking about family members that are very much out in the open, that have protection, i think that's something that will take a hard look for our country. these individuals that sought now twice in the last two months to attempt to assassinate or actually get close to, in

butler, pennsylvania, within an inch or two of an assassination, i think raises serious concerns for us as a country moving forward. if people think they can solve their political issues and problems by showing up outside of a golf course with a semiautomatic rifle, if that's what's going to continue going forward, then i think that changes things at a very negative way. >> well, and, you know, again, this is, as jonathan lemire said, this has happened throughout our history, unfortunately. gerald ford has three attempts on his life in the '70s. bill clinton had one incident after another incident after another incident, which ended up in the closing of pennsylvania avenue in front of the white house. these things happen. as tom said, mika, we have 50 days. threat level is high against donald trump. threat level is high against kamala harris. the threat level is high, and, right now, you know, again, as badly as they did in butler, pennsylvania, the secret service

did their job commendably yesterday. everybody from donald trump to the sheriff of palm beach county to everybody involved is saying the same thing. they just need more resources. lindsey graham quoted in "the new york times" today saying that they work around the clock. they need more resources. there need to be more people. they have to figure out a way over the next 50 days to team up with other law enforcement agencies, with local law enforcement agencies, and protect these presidential candidates. then congress does need to step up and do their job, and they need to fund the secret service adequately. >> nbc news national law enforcement and intelligence correspondent tom winter, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," jd vance continues to push lies about migrants in ohio, despite days of bomb threats in the city of springfield. >> apparently, he kind of

admitted it yesterday, that they just make the stories up. >> they create them themselves. meanwhile, donald trump is defending a far-right conspiracy theorist who had been traveling with his campaign last week. it comes as new polling shows trump losing support in a state he won in his previous runs for president. we'll go through all of that when we come back in 90 seconds. >> a national poll showing a pretty big lead, too. ♪ tainted love ♪

♪♪ what a beautiful shot of new york city. you are now looking at mika's penthouse apartment. >> all right. >> atop the comcast tower. you can see she has positioned her satellite dish -- >> that is literally an old joke. >> she's pointing it to, is that "fox and friends?" what? >> don't watch that. >> you can't because you're on this show. >> i know. but i did take a look, and it is unbelievable. >> unbelievable. >> it's the things they omit that's the most fascinating. >> "fox and friends," you know, other people, we love steve, a great guy. >> yeah. republican vice presidential nominee continues his false claims, these lies about haitian migrants who are abducting and eating pets in springfield, ohio. >> let's just say this, though -- >> nope. >> -- he is lying but admitting

that he is lying. >> that's true. >> extra credit for that? maybe half credit. >> i thought you were going to make a joke. >> i'm not making jokes. >> super funny. >> making jokes when people's lives are in danger? >> that's damn right, yeah. >> he's lying. but he is admitting that he is lying. >> right. he is transparent. >> look, i'm distracting you here, but it's really the ball is over here. >> he believes in transparency. >> here it is. >> the senator from ohio claimed yesterday in a series of interviews that constituents in springfield have brought the concerns to him. when pressed that there is no evidence of people eating pets, vance appeared to say he knows the claims are not true. >> when we say officials say there aren't, and he says only officials claiming the claims aren't true are all the officials that would know whether they were true or not.

>> right. >> the mayor came out and said, not true. city manager, i believe is what they're called in springfield, says not true. >> people begging for this to stop because their lives are in danger. >> the republican governor saying these claims are not true. now, religious leaders saying, stop lying. you're putting people's lives in danger. >> where are they coming from? >> let's see. >> american media totally ignored this stuff until donald trump and i started talking about cat memes. if i have to -- >> it wasn't just a meme. >> -- create stories so the american media pays attention to the suffering of the american people, that's what i'm going to do, dana, because you guys are completely letting kamala harris coast. >> so, reverend al, jd vance says -- this is special -- jd vance says the american media

wouldn't cover this story, so they had to make up the story. >> if i have to -- >> we're supposed to cover a story that's not true. the american media wouldn't cover this story, so he said i had to create the story. >> i have to create stories. >> he had to create this cat meme story that would be all cute if it was just donald trump saying that people are eating dogs and cats. >> there he is with cats again. >> doing remixes. he's obsessed with cats. but, unfortunately, and you hear religious leaders taling about thi leaders in springfield talking about this, there is now the threat of violence, fear of violence. >> bomb threats. >> bomb threats against people in springfield. >> they have literally had to close the schools and cancel town hall meetings because of these threats. when you look at the fact that he is now admitting they made up

a story, as you say, quoting him that the media wouldn't cover it, maybe the media didn't cover it because there was no story. it didn't exist. again, this is consistent with trump's campaign. let's not forget, donald trump as president called haiti and several african countries s-hole countries. you also have to put into -- a factor in, that if you are someone that is anti-haitians in springfield or coming in to think you're defending the people of springfield whose pets are being eaten up, any black walking around springfield looks haitian. i mean, it is racist. it is a clear threat to people. just like i denounce whoever is trying to assassinate donald trump for whatever reasons, they should denounce the fact that they are inciting nuts to feel they can go into springfield and

save pets. it's those kinds of jaded thinking that leads to killings. i did the funerals in buffalo, new york, over a mass killer who felt he had the right to target blacks. i've been to others and did eulogies. this is dangerous. this is a threat to people. at the same time, we denounce what apparently has happened as a threat to donald trump. we should denounce what is apparently a threat to blacks and particularly haitians in springfield, ohio. >> donald trump's doubled down on this lie. he humiliated himself and just really his own campaign staff horrified, supporters horrified that he fell for this third-rate internet meme. erick erickson, conservative, very conservative radio host, was just enraged that people around donald trump did not keep -- i think he was worried at the time laura loomer was spreading these lies to donald

trump. but he got past the debate. he went on the campaign trail. he continued the lies. even though he knew they were lies that would put immigrants and refugees in danger. let's be clear, not immigrants from norway. immigrants from haiti in danger. and republican governor, republican governor of ohio, mike dewine, yesterday did what you've been seeing of small business owners and factory workers do, and that is praise the migrant community. in fact, you actually had people running businesses, running small businesses in springfield saying, this mgrant community is the hardest working community we have. these haitians work harder than people here. they stay at their stations. they work hard. they don't leave early.

everybody is praising how hard these migrants work. this is the republican, let me say it again, the republican governor of ohio praising them for their contributions and dismissing these continued vance/trump lies against them. >> the haitians who are in springfield are legal. they came to springfield to work. ohio is on the move, and springfield has really made a great resurgence with a lot of companies coming in. these haitians came in to work for these companies. what the companies tell us is that they are very good workers. they're very happy to have them there. frankly, that's helped the economy. look, there's a lot of garbage on the internet, and, you know, this is a piece of garbage that was simply not true. there's no evidence of this at all. >> yeah, the fact that jd vance

would continue this on live television just, like we said transparently, but with no sense of the damage that they are causing to people's lives, and somebody is going to get hurt. like, it's going to be on them for saying these things over and over again when they're not true. let's bring in nbc news national affairs analyst and a partner and chief political columnist at "puck," john heilemann. and msnbc political analyst elise jordan. she's a former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department. good to have you both. >> john heilemann, as the republican governor said, these people, these immigrants are here legally, and they're receiving high praise for hard work. it shows you just how desperate donald trump and jd vance are, making up these stories. >> and cruel. >> well, now cruel. >> just cruel. >> and the danger they put

people who are in springfield legally, how cruel they are. >> yeah. joe, i mean, to give jd vance, to try to credit his argument here, it's sort of like saying that hunger is a problem in america. in order to get the press to focus on the problem of hunger, the real problem of hunger in america, i'm going to say that there's, you know, been an invasion of zombies or body snatchers, to make it racist, also african body snatchers, zombies who have come and are eating all the food. i mean, he's trying to say there is a real problem, you know, that there is a stress on the community because there's been this influx of immigrants. mike dewine says there have been -- yeah, we have 15,000 immigrants here. there's been some strains on the

social safety net. jd vance has used that as a justification for just continuing to blatantly go around the sunday shows yesterday and say, "i'm going to keep lying. i'm just going to don't, and this is my justification." it's outrageous, obviously. now, let's -- the reality here is the trump campaign is saying to anyone who will listen, we would rather take the hits for lying about this, and as long as we're talk about an issue we think favors us, which is immigration, rather than talking about other issues which do not favor us, such as women's reproductive health and abortion, their view is, they don't care about the impact, the human impact on the ground in springfield. they don't care about whether somebody gets hurt. mika, i think it's cruel and more than that, it's just totally detached from any kind of responsibility. their attitude is they see this through the cynical prism of

politics. i would say that their problem with this is that -- you said the words that are the problem here. laura loomer is the problem here. i mean that not merely in the fact that laura loomer is a crazed, hate speech peddler. >> can you explain who she is? >> well, she's one of the most toxic, most poisonous people on the far right. if there is a conspiracy theory or a form of hate speech that has ever been uttered by anybody ever in the maga sphere, she has propounded it. she has been banned from facebook, instagram, twitter. >> and she travels with the president? >> she's been -- she can't do doordash because of her hate speech on delivery food applications. she's suddenly become donald trump's constant companion. she is everywhere with donald

trump. the drudge report was up for most of the weekend with photographs of the two of them, trump and laura loomer, being handsy with each other, suggesting in straight forward terms, what is on fire in the internet and bill maher's show and other places, suggestions that the two of them have a relationship. >> oh, my gosh. >> rumors. >> that is the -- rumors. >> no evidence of that at all. >> well, what -- >> i'd only say, joe, just to say, i agree, there's no evidence of it, other than the fact that she is someone who people on the trump campaign do not want to be traveling with him. >> well, yeah. >> in donald trump's orbit, they do not want to have traveling with him. >> right. >> marjorie taylor greene, thom tillis. >> right. >> everyone thinks this woman is bad news for donald trump, yet he continues to take her around with him everywhere. which raises questions as to why. that is why it is fueling this speculation about what's going on here. >> correct. >> there's no good political

reason to have someone -- >> but that's not a reason to introduce inappropriate -- i think it deduces he is making terrible decisions as to how to run his campaign. >> yes. >> if you say there is a conspiracy theory that she -- like, there's not a conspiracy theory she would avoid, that she embraces them, and she pushes them, it seems like this turn has taken, as her name as come up. >> i think the real problems began -- of course, there were concerns that a conspiracy theorist was at the debate in donald trump's group. also, of course, elise, the real concern on september 11th, which is basically an american, you know, day of remembrance, one of the most sacred, that a 9/11 truther would be in donald trump's entourage with him at the events there. i want to circle back again,

though, to jd vance. jd vance saying something about springfield, that the mayor is saying it's not true, the city manager is saying is not true, and the governor of ohio is saying not true. in fact, the republican governor of ohio praising these immigrants. legal, they're legal, which, again, shows you just how stupid this whole thing is. they're trying to make some claim against illegal immigration, which, of course, i oppose illegal immigration. i'm sure you do, too. these people that they're attacking are there legally, and they're working harder than a lot of other people in springfield, according to those people that are running the small businesses where they work. >> joe, the haitians in that community who are hard-working legal imgramigrants are being u

as political fodder for political purposes for this campaign. it is cut and dry. they're trying to incite the strong feelings around the country about immigration and about the state of the economy. so when i was thinking this weekend, going a little past just how insane it was for a presidential candidate to spring up a completely unfounded, racist rumor in a presidential debate, a move that i think was a pretty bad one for him and has been reflected in subsequent polling because he just looks unhinged and not in control, i thought, what similarities are we seeing with brexit? 90% of voters who voted for brexit, it was over immigration. immigration in a small town, what are the implications writ large for the broader political ecosystem? and what is not being heard from that area? i'm not saying let's hear out inherent racism of what has been trotted around, but what really

are the issues happening there, and what does it say about how people are going to vote this fall? >> this is clearly a fight the trump campaign wants to have, even though they're doing so with lies. dangerous lies. certainly, donald trump's campaign's most headline-grabbing decision yesterday morning was trump's move in all caps to tweet, "i hate taylor swift," with an explanation point. certainly, that would have blowback with young voters. but jd vance doubling and tripling down, going on multiple sunday morning shows to spout this lie, at one moment saying they're lying, exaggerating what is happening here, but they think this is something they want to do. even though, as the rev said earlier, there have been schools that have had to close there, city hall has had to be evacuated twice because of bomb threats. local colleges announced they'll have classes remotely because they don't feel they can keep these places safe. when donald trump was asked on friday at his news conference in

los angeles, he was asked if he'd denounce the bomb threats rolling in on springfield, ohio, he chose not to. he wouldn't talk about it. >> wait, wait, jonathan, are you saying that donald trump would not denounce the bomb threats in springfield? >> he did not. he would not say those words. he moved on to focus on what he claimed was the problem, these migrants being there. he touted his deportation plan, saying we'd get them back there and send them back to venezuela when, of course, earlier in the week, talking about haitian immigrants. it's all been racist, the rhetoric is there. as further evidence as to how they're not backing down from this, campaign sources tell me and others that trump is actually weighing a visit to springfield in the next week or two. >> um, okay. we will be following that. let's show you new national polling that shows no movement in the presidential race following last week's debate. in the latest abc news/ipsos poll, vice president kamala

harris leads former president donald trump by six months. 52% to 46% among likely voters. that is the same as the final survey conducted before the debate. >> there are other polls that have also shown there is movement, actually. they've shown there is movement. national polls, which usually don't matter, but those national polls, i think it was an ipsos poll, showed a six-point spread, as well. but the most fascinating poll we saw this weekend came from iowa, where one of the most respected polls and one of the most respected pollsters showed that iowa, which has been a blowout in years past, is getting close. "des moines register"/media com shows harris is cutting into trump's lead in iowa. >> trump leading harris by four points among likely voters in the state. 47% to 43%. it is within the margin of

error. in a june poll, trump held an 18-point lead over president joe biden before he exited the race. a democrat has not won iowa since barack obama back in 2012. joining us now, the conductor of the "des moines register" mediacom poll, as well as president of the polling firm seltzer and company, good to have you on the show this morning. >> good morning. >> dig deeper into the polls we were just telling our viewers about, if you could. >> i think the national polls are still holding still. it's good to keep that in mind. it's not how we elect presidents. the action going to happen state by state. we surely saw a lot of action in this last poll. this is one of those that makes your jaw start to drop a little bit. a remarkable change from june. you remember june?

things were so different then. this is a time when i think polling can really help and reflect back, what is going on in the conversations people are having, the thinking they're doing, the decisions that they're starting to make? >> yeah. john heilemann, as i've always said, with polls, even when i was running, you know, i never took any pot tom line as gospel, but i surely looked at the trend lines. if you look at the trend lines in texas, within five in a lot of polls. in florida, within five of a lot of polls. things have been 15 points before. now in iowa, which i never imagined i would see in this race, iowa within the margin of error. that really is a trend line that draws a huge headline. >> yeah. and as someone i spent a lot of time with over the years, very familiar with your work and methodology, you know, you look, 2016, ten-point victory for

donald trump over hillary clinton. nine points, i think. in 2020, eight points for donald trump over joe biden. your last poll, i believe, correct me if i'm wrong, an 18-point spread between joe biden and donald trump. i mean, that's a trend line, also. we're talking about a trend line over a couple of cycles, this has been tighter than we've seen since 2012. talk about what's -- what are the dynamics that are driving that change, and what do you think is going to be the -- what are some of the dynamics that could make this even tighter, potentially put this state in play? >> the single most important factor digging through the data, with the question why ringing in my ears, is there are more people now saying that they will definitely vote. that's our definition of a likely voter. to say you'll definitely vote.

to say you'll probably vote, no, that's not strong enough for us. so we saw an uptick in the proportion of our total, all-iowa adult sample who said they were definitely going to vote. that's not consistent across the sub groups. you saw a stronger increase, a bigger jump among women, among college educators, and among people under 45. those are groups that are fitting toward kamala harris. it is the method that kind of captured the malaise in june and the giant spread for donald trump, part of the spread was due to a lot of people saying, i'm going to sit this out. maybe i'll probably vote. i might vote. they're not going to show up as a likely voter in our poll. now, we're capturing an exuberance, an interest in

voting, an enthusiasm for candidates, and so that has ended up dropping the margin between the two candidates. i credit my method for being able to pick up what's happening in the mood of our electorate. >> j. ann seltzer, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. appreciate your analysis. >> that's what ann's polls always do. they pick up a lot of trend lines, the mood in the electorate. i guess if you have to poll the process as crazy as an iowa caucus over a couple of decades, you have to keep your ear to the ground. >> that's for sure. >> does it better than anybody. the big moments from yesterday's action across the nfl. pablo torre joins us to break down the story lines from week two. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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okay, maybe not at work. point is at xfinity. we're constantly engineering new ways to get the entertainment you love to you faster and easier than ever. that's what i do. is that love island? first down, mayfield looking down the sideline. he's got godwin again. inside the ten, and he'll walk it in for a tampa touchdown. >> normally, rogers in complete command. rogers looking end zone. touchdown, hall! >> needed every inch of that reach. first and ten. down the field he goes.

rashee rice for the touchdown. >> on the rollout, looking deep for harrison. oh, marvin harrison jr. to the end zone! >> a blocker, more than a blocker. to the 25, 20. did the sprints help? boy, he somersaults into the end zone. touchdown, chargers. >> second down and five. smith sets, fires downfield. wide open! metcalf, touchdown. >> different game. williams in the game. pressure, lets it fly. going deep. he's got it! touchdown, new orleans. >> second down and nine. darnold getting messy, going deep, and he's got jefferson. he's got jefferson! it's a foot race down the field with brown shifting gears. that's six.

>> jefferson, magic. those are some of the biggest touchdowns yesterday from across the nfl. let's go to houston and the texans hosting the chicago bears on sunday night football last night. texans quarterback c.j. stroud threw for 260 yards and a touchdown to nico collins early in the second quarter that helped houston to a six-point lead going to halftime. texans managed one field goal after the break, but defense carried them the rest of the way with heavy pressure on chicago rookie quarterback caleb williams, sacked seven times in the game, and picked off back-to-back possessions in the second half. the texans held on to beat the bears. the 0-2 bears beat, 19-13. host of pablo torre find out on meadowlark media, pablo torre. a lot to talk about. my god, the saints the big headline of the day. >> yeah. >> and baker. let's talk about the game last night. here, you have caleb williams. again, somebody -- i could be

wrong, but i don't think he has what it takes to be an nfl quarterback. it's early. doesn't help when you're sacked seven times. you know, the bears ran justin fields out of town. they added a lot of supporting cast. the bears are now 0-2. justin fields, 2-0 in pittsburgh. not looking great in chicago right now. >> i had a feeling you'd start there, joe. >> yeah, for good reason. >> you were ahead of this. >> i was right, yeah. >> i bought some caleb williams stock. i'm contemplating selling my caleb williams stock through two weeks, just because the price isn't in my favor. look, caleb williams right now is the embodiment of the difference between college and the nfl. you watch him do stuff, he runs around back there, and it is hypothetically exciting, and then he is sacked seven times. the guy dropped back, in the last game, 37 times, i believe. he was pressured on 36 of them. so some of that is his fault, of

course. not great for caleb williams. it's also the offensive line's fault. the offensive line being offensive, offensively terrible. the guy is in jeopardy per perpetually. justin fields handled all this with less talent at the edges at receiver. >> that's the crazy thing. >> and he was actually, again, a relative veteran to caleb, first two games, he was better. right now, it is really, really bad. it's about -- i would say it's even this bad. we've been making fun of bryce young quite a bit on this program, and rightly so. he had a better start to his nfl career than caleb williams had through the first two games, which is not good. >> the problem, and you pointed it out, is justin fields, as we were saying every sunday the end of last year, was having a good year. the bears made a colossal mistake, i thought, and we said it in real time, getting rid of fields and not taking harrison

jr. as their first pick. >> well -- >> that would have been a revolution for the bears. they didn't go that way. not that i do this, you know i'm not the type of guy that says, oh, i told alabama they'd get -- i wouldn't do that. you know that. >> no, never. >> i would say, though, another guy, and i bring this up for a good point. there are second acts in america. and baker mayfield is one of those second acts that i also believe a second string quarterback at jacksonville, mark it down, may prove himself to be. >> oh. >> but maker -- baker mayfield, man, i didn't even see yesterday's performance coming. >> i'm going to show you from the mac jones heat check to celebrate baker mayfield. joe, this is where you're totally right. sometimes, and this is the baker mayfield story, sometimes it's actually them and not you.

baker mayfield gets drafted number one overall by the browns. browns, of course, are famously terrible. they end up getting deshaun watson, now infamously terrible, more personal wise than football. panthers are like, we don't need this guy. then he proves himself to be a competent quarterback for a competent team. now in tampa bay, he's taken down the most popular super bowl pick out of the nfc. baker mayfield through two weeks, two-week analysis here, but he is the mvp of the league through two weeks. >> did you see this game live? were you watching this game at the end? >> yes, yes. >> i could not believe, let's just dig deep here, the terrible play calling, not only on the last drive where jared goff is throwing underneath like six yards when they have 12 seconds left, but also the final drive when they had to get to the four

yard line. they're on the 11 or 12. he's throwing underneath! he's not giving himself a chance to get the first down and win the game. you're sitting there going, wait a second, what in the world is this guy doing? then they get the ball back, no time-outs. he's still dumping the ball underneath when they had to get 60 yards. >> yeah. >> it was insanity. >> yeah, spoken like one of three people on camera right now who i believe picked the lions to win the super bowl. frustrating. >> maybe they will, but they won't with that call. >> baker, i want to point out, that is happening on one side of the screen. the other side is baker mayfield using his legs, juking defenders to the floor. >> come on! >> it's unthinkable how all-around good baker mayfield is. he has been resuscitated, resurrected, and he is sending everybody back to their tombs at this point. >> yeah. >> okay. >> i want to finish this discussion -- we could talk about the 49ers just being

incapable of beating minnesota in minnesota. >> sam darnold. >> let's go to what i think is really the headline here today. i say this as a guy that grew up in northwest florida. all we could see before "nfl ticket" was the lowly new orleans saints, the ain'ts. man, they put on a show yesterday. dak, the $200 million plus man sitting on the bench in the fourth quarter. >> joe, the saints put paper bags on the heads of everybody in that stadium in dallas. >> yeah. >> that's where we are now. the saints were a bottom ten team in the league. cowboys, of course, have paid, as you said, record amounts of money to dak prescott. 16-game home winning streak in the regular season. saints come in, second week in a row -- after week one, they blew out the panthers, but they're the panthers. week two, blow out the cowboys. alvin kamara, former tennessee running back, has four

touchdowns. derek carr, another guy relegated to the dust pin of history, has a great game himself as quarterback. you wonder, okay, are the saints for real or are the cowboys a lot like the panthers? i'm going to lean toward the saints being so much better than we realize. this offense, man, it's really hard to score 40 points. >> i agree. >> twice in a row in the nfl against anybody. the last thing about the cowboys, as i've said many, many times, they make me want to do things involving upchucking there various mugs. they're valued at $11 million, the most valuable sports franchise in america. a team known for fans having to wear paper bags because they're humiliated by how historically they are, coming to your house week two and saying, you're the problem, not us. >> okay, really quickly, we have to go, but i just have to bring up another just wow performance. quick responses. the raiders.

second half against the ravens, incredible performance by that offense. >> look, the ravens, man, they were a contender. they lose to the chiefs in week one. they lose in this game to the raiders in week two. again, the raiders are one of those teams where it's like, they might be in this when it's week 15 and you're like, how are they in the room with us? >> exactly. >> how are they getting the votes? you think back to games like this, where it is, okay, they can do it like a half. maybe they can do it for a whole season. >> pablo torre. >> hold on. i have to correct something. >> okay. >> alex told me the bears are not 0-2. they're 1-1. >> i just got -- >> i have to say, they feel like they're 0-2. >> spirituality, they're 0-2. >> pablo, thank you. thank you, pablo. >> thank you, mika. >> pablo agrees with me spirituality. >> thank you, bye. buh-bye. >> there will be a second act for mac jones. very good quarterback who is not treated well. i'm hoping bryce young and his family and agent will force a

trade from carolina so bryce can play good football. nbc sports and founder of the men in blazers media network. roger. >> what happened? what happened to liverpool, roger? what happened? >> joe, it's a long season. it's a marathon, not a sprint. we're all going to get run. the bears are going to win the super bowl, and caleb williams is our new king. i'm here to talk about the premier league with you, baby. you can breathe again, mika. i know how much you love the big game this weekend. the north london derby. >> yeah. >> 111-year-old blood feud between tottenham and arsenal. two teams separated by 3 1/2 miles of capital city, flotsom and jetsom. you have spurs counterparts.

baby enforcer. that's the energy of the game. the team channelled it with the only goal, decisive. gabriel. he hit the spurs with his own sledgehammer, thunderous header. like vince carter on the dunk. that was it. arsenal win, 1-0. a win catalyzing so much relief. you want to know about liverpool. your boston red sox, they've been perfect under the manager. a new baby-headed dutchman. nottingham forest were to be tendered meat to be devoured, but they scored the only goal of the game. calum hudson-odoi. first winner at anfield in 55 years. joe, the answer is your liverpool are still the components of a planned stage. we'll finish with defending

champion manchester city. they hosted brentford. brentford scored in 22 seconds. city yet to wake up. a calamity of errors, and weisser, possibly the only time we'll say his name on "morning joe," kept his head while others were losing theirs. this is like northern illinois university shock. manchester city, like "the empire strike back," through erling haaland, who looks like the man in a fun house mirror, scored twice in 30 minutes. alvin kamara from norway. manchester city win, are perfect. start for 115 charges for financial misdemeanor, and may it's a maybe. they host arsenal next week,

mika. it'll be worthy. >> okay. >> what a match. >> right on time. roger bennett, thank you very much. good to see you. >> thanks, roger. we turn back to the news at the top of the hour now. a suspect is in custody after an apparent assassination attempt on donald trump, the former president. it happened yesterday at his golf course in florida. nbc news correspondent kathy park has the latest. >> reporter: the fbi investigating an apparent assassination attempt against former president trump. >> before 2:00 p.m. sunday at trump international golf club at west palm beach. the u.s. secret service personnel opened fire on a gunman located near the property line. >> reporter: as a precaution, agents rushed the former president to safety. according to sources, trump was between the 5th and 6th hole when the incident took place. >> what they do is, they have an agent that jumps one hole ahead of time to where the president

was at. he was able to spot this rifle barrel sticking out of the fence and immediately engaged that individual. at which time, the individual took off. >> reporter: officials say two backpacks and a rifle were found in the bushes. >> there was also a go pro on the fence where he was intent on filming what was going on. we were able to locate a witness that came to us and said, "hey, i saw the guy running out of the bushes. he jumped into a black nissan. i took a picture of the vehicle and the tag." >> reporter: the license plate tracked by law enforcement on i-95. the sheriff's office in neighboring martin county says they stopped this black nissan and took a suspect into custody. >> there was a lone driver in the vehicle. that driver is now in custody and in the hands of the federal bureau of investigation. [ gunshots ]. >> reporter: this happening two months after an assassination attempt. the former president shot and wounded at a rally in butler county, pennsylvania. fbi officials have not released

a motive in that investigation. senator lindsey graham posting on x, he spoke with the former president, writing, "he is one of the strongest people i've ever known. he's in good spirits, and he is more resolved than ever to save our country." >> let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg. chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker is with us, as well. ken, i'll start with you. what more do we know about the suspect, his background, criminal history, political affiliations? >> 58-year-old wesley routh is his name. things are coming into focus. we don't have a full picture yet, but we're seeing an extensive criminal history in north carolina where he used to live, including what looks like felony convictions. one charge of possessing a weapon of mass destruction back in 2002. unclear exactly what that was. it is also unclear, therefore,

how he was able to obtain what the police said was an ak-47 style rifle with felony convictions. it also appears at some point, he moved to hawaii, or on his linkedin profile said he was living in hawaii. he became interested in the ukraine war and recruiting soldiers to fight in the ukraine war. there is evidence he tried to fight in the ukraine war. there's also a video online of his in kyiv being interviewed by journalists, where he talks about coming to ukraine and trying to sign up to fight. but because he had no military experience, they didn't accept him as a fighter. he then turned to try to recruit other people, including he had this scheme to recruit afghan fighters to come and support the ukrainian cause. he was very anti-russian president vladimir putin. there's actually a twitter account that we're going through, and it includes a tweet that suggests he voted for donald trump in 2016 but then became disillusioned with mr. trump. perhaps in part over the ukraine issue. became very frustrated with mr. trump.

there's also a lot of very weird stuff, frankly, on the twitter account, including a tweet urging north korean dictator kim jong-un to come to hawaii. it appears the guy was not all there. then we have the facts the police released. he was preparing to film this thing, this incident with the gopro, lying in wait for mr. trump, two months after the other assassination attempt. it's mind-boggling. a lot of questions today for the secret service as we learn more about this individual, mika, joe. >> dave aronberg, you were at the press conference yesterday. what can you add? >> joe, as the local state attorney, we were working on some warrants and a motion for pretrial detention to make sure he stayed behind bars until the feds could get involved. after the press conference, they announced they were asserting jurisdiction. we stood down. that's pretty normal.

they're better equipped to handle this. i think he'll probably face charges of aggravated assault with a firearm against a federal law enforcement officer. that can get you up to 20 years in prison. because, apparently, he pointed the ak-47 style rifle at a secret service agent, who acted promptly and shot at him. the only shots, apparently, that were fired were from the secret service. also, he could be charged as an ex-felon in possession of a firearm. easy charge. can get up to ten years for that. there is possibly a threat against a former president. under federal law, up to five years for that. the feds are on top of this. he may see a magistrate, up to 48 hours. ironically, where the golf club is is right next to the jail. this guy, who was next to the golf course, peering between a chain link fence, is now at the golf course again, but this time peering between the bars of his cell, perhaps looking down upon

the golfers. >> let me ask you, dave, it sounds like the main charge against him won't be for a plot against the president. the main charge would be aggravated assault, for pointing a weapon at a secret service agent, right? >> correct. you know, he's a former president, and so the assassination laws wouldn't apply to him in this case. the most serious charge based on what we know now, and there's an ongoing investigation, would be the aggravated assault, the firearm against the federal law enforcement officer. although this guy clearly has a screw loose, it's going to be tough for him to claim an insanity defense. to do so, you've got to have an established medical condition and not be able to know the difference between right and wrong. what happened after he got caught, he ran. after he was shot at, he ran to his car and took off north on i-95. he was found 45 minutes north, apparently may have been trying

to drive back to north carolina. why do you flee? you know what you did was wrong, and you'd be in trouble for it. it'd be hard for him to establish an insanity defense if this ever goes to trial, though it is clear he's got some mental issues. >> ken, this moment, of course, comes as secret service is already under intense scrutiny for what happened in butler county, pennsylvania. as we discussed earlier in the show, it seems like yesterday, secret service, this was a triumph. they did their job and did it well and prevented the president from coming into harm's way. talk to us about the challenges the agency faces under congressional scrutiny with limited resources, and let's say the differences between the security detail given to the sitting president, joe biden, versus someone who is a former president, even if he is also the republican nominee. >> well, that is the big question, jonathan. and you're right, it was a triumph for the individual secret service agents who thwarted this attack, particularly the sharp-eyed person who saw the rifle woking through the fence line in the

shrubs. that was incredible, really. it also does raise questions, particularly when you heard the palm beach county sheriff say, well, if he was the current president, there may have been more security at the golf course. this is a man who had already had an assassination attempt where he was shot, amid intelligence on iranian threats to his life. if the secret service isn't throwing maximum amount of resources at donald trump, i don't know who they're putting resources at. i mean, in the sense that donald trump is taking more risks campaigning for president than joe biden is sitting in the white house. it really does raise some questions about what resources are around mr. trump, given the threat picture, and really you can extend it out to the other candidates now because -- the vice president candidates, kamala harris, there's a huge stream of threats now coming in. but it really is a crisis moment for the secret service. they are reeling from what happened in butler, pennsylvania. obviously, the director resigned. there are other people leaving who have been fingered for potentially having not done

their jobs correctly in butler. now, you have this situation. look, trump doesn't make it easy, right? he is out in public, outdoor rallies, playing golf, but that's what we pay this agency to do. if they need more money, they should tell congress immediately. this is sort of their highest responsibility here. they prevented a catastrophe, but this should not happen again. the idea that a person got within a 500 yard or 300 yard, whatever it was, rifle shot of the president for the second time in two months is alarming. >> nbc's ken dilanian and -- >> i have to say, though, ken, and, dave, you can jump in on here, i have to say, we don't know exactly the view, and maybe dave aronberg can help us, but if they were a couple of holes ahead, then from what we gathered at the press conference, again, maybe, dave, you can help us out here, this shooter, potential shooter who

apparently didn't fire his weapon, had an aim at secret service but not at the president, who was a few holes behind, is that correct, dave? he never had a line of sight on donald trump? >> that's the information i have, but the investigation is continuing. now, keep in mind, this golf club is a huge property. it's a much harder property to lock down than mar-a-lago. mar-a-lago is about 10 to 15 minutes away. it's on the tony island of palm beach. you have to go over a bridge. it is border on one side by water. you can block and shut down the roads. you can't really do that as easily around the golf course, which is a major area of west palm beach. it has a big shrub where people have gone through there to take pictures of the former president. ken is right, the secret service did a great job in identifying this guy, who was 300 to 500 yards away from the former president, noticing he was there and shooting at him, which caused the guy to run away. in this case, they deserve

credit. >> they did a great job, yeah, this time. i mean, they've had so many other problems. ken, what have you heard about the reaction to unprecedented level of threats that are out there, whether we're talking about donald trump or kamala harris or other officials? are they going to team up with local law enforcement agencies more aggressively? >> absolutely, joe. they'll do whatever they can with the level of resources they have. and they have said they don't have enough resources. that's an issue. but, you know, there's already a scramble going on to fix the problems that were exposed at butler, and there were many of those. they were perhaps more profound than even we realize now. we're awaiting the results of the investigation. but i think we're going to see now more resources thrown at protecting the candidates than we have in the past, and it may take congressional action and more money, guys. >> nbc's ken dilanian and state

attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg, thank you, both. >> peter baker, what can you tell us about your reporting on this? >> well, i think one of the things that will cause a lot of conversation about is the state of our politics, right? the accelerated nature of political violence we're seeing. we're now seeing, of course, two unsuccessfully, fortunately, assassination attempts against the same candidate, the same former president, in just a couple months time. it reminds us of 1968 when there were two successful assassinations of prominent figures. we've talked about 1968 this year. it reminds us, of course, of gerald ford. two shots taken at gerald ford, i think within a month's time, both in california, back when he was president. we forget how much that can traumatize a country. but for a handful of inches in the case of butler, maybe a few

minutes in the case of palm beach. i think, you know, it raises the question of our politics. at the debate last week, the former president said, "i took a bullet to the head because of what they have been saying about me," blaing democrats for their rhetoric. of course, he wasn't talking about his own rhetoric, which tends to be provocative, as well. in the same debate, he instigated in some ways, you know, some people would say, vie violence in terms of springfield, ohio, talking about the fake story of eating dogs and cats, which resulted in bomb threats, a danger to everyday people in springfield, ohio. we're in a state of our country right now where political violence feels increasingly common, and we're on edge in a lot of ways. >> your reporting on bomb threats and the fbi, springfield disrupted by trump's false migrants claim. of course, the claim continued over the airwaves over the weekend. the one most notable was jd

vance going on cnn on sunday, speaking with dana bash, saying they basically create these stories to sort of bring the focus and spotlight on what he wants the spotlight to be on. >> the american media ignored this stuff until donald trump and i start talking about cat memes. if i have to -- >> but it wasn't just a meme. >> -- create stories so that the american media actually pays attention to the suffering of the american people, then that's what i'm going to do, dana, because you guys are completely letting kamala harris coast. >> i'm going to -- if i have to create stories. >> yup. >> that was telling and transparent. what do you make of that, peter baker? >> yeah, you know, he said the quiet part out loud. we're going to say things we know not to be true or we don't know who is true. we can't prove to be true just in order to draw attention to our issues. you know, that's -- that goes back to the alternative facts. we've been seeing that from, you

know, former president trump now, going back eight, nine years. what's striking, of course, is the consequences of this thing, right? former president trump this week now, in the last few days, was both the target of and instigator of a level of violence that we, of course, don't want to see in our national political discourse. you know, i think there's been some reflection on that since butler but not a lot. we've talked about what the secret service did wrong or what they should be doing right or how much resources they need, as if political violence is simply, you know, a fact of life. i suppose it is these days. we haven't figured out a way to solve our politics in a way it wouldn't become a regular thing. >> you know, reverend al, there has been violence. rhetoric has become more violent. i'm certainly open to people giving us examples of kamala

harris or joe biden saying things like this. that donald trump said, that chairman of the joint chiefs should be executed. that he could assassinate his political rivals using s.e.a.l. team six. and he still would be immune as long as he was president of the united states. constantly mocking and ridiculing the savage attack against paul pelosi, a man in his 80s who could have died while the guy was screaming, "where's nancy? where's nancy?" a january 6th chant. calling for people to go up and protest on january 6th and to be strong, starting those riots. then rewinding as he watched the most savage parts of those

attacks. and telling the proud boys to stand back and to stand by. >> during the debate. >> during the debate. i could go on and on and on. yes, there has been an increase of violence. you know, donald trump telling people in his audience to beat the hell out of any protesters or people they disagree with, and he will pay for their legal funds. the amount of violent rhetoric coming from one side really is unprecedented in modern american politics. now, you know, there's this desperate, desperate attempt to somehow sort of flatten things. you see this in the campaign, as well. donald trump will do something outrageous, and then we'll hear on the other side, "yeah, well, kamala harris has only done one interview with a philadelphia station." you're like, wait, you're starting violence against

haitians and immigrants, legal immigrants, and you're comparing that to how many interviews kamala harris has? but that's the sort of false moral equivalency we seem to be living with these days. >> it is something consistent. you know, one would have thought and hoped that after donald trump survived an assassination attempt, that a bullet literally hit his ear, that he would have had some kind of reflection, some kind of moving away from trying to really exacerbate the tensions. the opposite has happened. some of which you just cited. him talking about nancy pelosi's husband and others happened again since he was shot. so even though all of us denounce that shooting and did it in a very definite and

vociferous way, and denounced what happened yesterday, though the right-wing tabloids are saying this guy was a left-wing nut, he voted for trump. i don't know how you make him a left-wing nut. but whoever he was, he should be denounced and prosecuted at the full extent of the law. to the full extent of the law. but at the same time, donald trump is putting in real danger haitians and blacks in springfield by, and we've seen the bomb threats already there, but him saying they're eating people's pets. then his vice presidential candidate admitting they're making this up because they're giving kamala harris a free ride. let me get this right. because you think they're giving kamala harris, your presidential opponent, a free ride, you can make up and racially profile people, which is consistent with donald trump's career, from birtherism all the way back to

when he was cited by the justice department for discrimination against housing. it's always racism. that's always where he goes back to, and he does not have any copunction at all about putting people at risk, which is what's happening in springfield, ohio, right now. >> there is no place for political violence in this country, none. but it is donald trump who trolls in the incendiary rhetoric, rhetoric that often has violent imagery. he's been doing it on our national political stage nearly a decade. many times, he's given an opportunity to speak out against violence and chooses not to. last hour, i mentioned he had an event at the end of last week at a southern california golf course. he was given the opportunity to denounce these bomb threats in springfield, ohio, and chose not to. let's look. >> we will do large deportations from springfield, ohio. large deportations. we're going to get these people

out. we're bringing them back to venezuela. told biden, he's not accepting anybody back. they moved all their criminals, not all of them, but the rest are moving in now. they emptied their jails in venezuela, emptied their criminals, emptied the nests. they call them nests. they're bad people. they're all in the united states and taking over cities. it's like an invasion from within. we're going to have the largest deportation in the history of our country, and we're going to start with springfield and aurora. >> again, elise, that was the answer trump gave when he was asked if he would denounce the threats in springfield. not only did he not do that, he pivoted to more attacks about moi migrants. in this case, mixing up haiti and venezuela. you know, this is just a seemingly new low in terms of his inability to speak out against something that is obviously a menace to people living there, innocent people living there, in favor of espousing racist talking points. >> it is political extremism,

pure and simple, at play. we're seeing the cycle of that extremism play out in our politics right now. obviously, donald trump is fueled by the far right. on the far left, we see plenty of radicalization there, too. in polling that i've seen. lincoln institute did a study on the politics of extremism and how americans are increasingly radicalized to believe the political opposition is the enemy and not just an opponent. as this continues and as leaders throw gasoline on the fire, it's not going to get any better. and then when it comes to the point of violence, which it has been disproportionately actors who have been associated with the left, scalise. then, you know, ones who -- well, actually, just the scalise, i think. that was the big leftist.

then this guy, we don't know, but we can't just deny that this is a huge, sweeping problem on the extremes of our political ecosystem. >> joe, i'm curious, to go back to the part of the conversation we were talking about earlier, you know, this is all taking place in the context of donald trump's performance at the debate last week. we don't know how it'll move the numbers, but there's no serious person in politics, left, right, or center, who doesn't think the performance trump gave was bad in the quad debate. the aftermath of the debate, trying to spin the debate, what's been happening on his campaign, the sins of factionalism on the right, some related to this laura loomer issue, some related to the immigration issue, there's kind of a meltdown, it seems, happening in the maga sphere around trump.

you know, the post debate period, it seems every news cycle on trump has been a bad cycle. the best you can say about the debate was he accomplished nothing in terms of moving the ball forward. since then, things have only gotten worse for him. he seems to be spiraling in ways. in this context, it feeds his tendencies toward extremism, his tendencies toward amping up this kind of hateful rhetoric and the incendiary talk. i'm trying to get a sense of where you think, having studied him so long, watched him so long, knowing him as well as you do, the next 49 days, what are we looking at here in these seven weeks between now and election day? >> well, he -- i said it when joe biden stepped out of the race and kamala harris stepped

in. i'd said it's the first time in his public life that donald trump was something other than a disruptor. donald trump has always been a disruptor. he's always made people reading the tabloids and people he attacks in the tabloid, he's always put them off balance and off guard. in this case, the 78-year-old man, for the first time in his adult life, is having to face the fact that the disruption is coming from the other side. the disrupters now are the democrats. he never imagined he wouldn't be running against an aging joe biden. he never imagined he would be facing a woman 20 years younger than him, that was able to run circles around him on the debate stage. and you are right, there is not a serious person out there that would ever suggest that debate

was anything less than a disaster for donald trump. you would have to be a deeply uncertain person to suggest otherwise. why do i say that? because people in his own campaign know he was beaten badly in that debate. people on fox news have said it. people in the "wall street journal" editorial page have said it over and over again. >> he knows. >> and he knows it. and that is, in fact, why we are seeing what we're seeing right now from donald trump. he needed a reset at the debate. it desperately needed to be his reset. he needed to follow the advice of his campaign staff, telling him to focus on the economy, to focus on inflation, to focus on economic issues, comparing his economic record with joe biden and kamala harris'. he at least believes it was better, so he should have done that. instead, peter baker, he

wandered off into the fields and ended up in the most horrifying moment for the campaign. again, donald trump is desperately trying to normalize eating dogs and cats in springfield. desperately, by doubling down, triple down, quadrupling down, claiming they're illegal immigrants from venezuela, saying they'll go up to springfield, on and on. this is divide in the campaign. certainly, either susie wiles nor chris want him to be talking about dog eating. there is a major disruption going on. far from being the reset that they wanted this debate to be, it ended up making a bad situation worse for donald trump, which is why we're seeing him sort of spin even more out of control. the question is, what is the next opportunity for a reset? what are we, about 50 days away.

people are starting to vote, right? >> yeah. >> and look, this is -- this is how he spends his weekend, "i hate taylor swift." >> what does that do? >> i'm not really good at this politics thing. i'm thinking that doesn't help you in the cross tabs with a lot of people. >> well, you're right. i mean, the problem for him is i think there isn't another great opportunity to talk to so many people, right? there were 60 some million people watching the debate this past week. there's not another one scheduled. he said he won't have one, though i'm sure there will be a dance about whether he will or won't. there's no more conventions. there's not going to be a single opportunity where 60 million people are going to be watching him again between now and election day. as you rightly point out, election day has already start started in some places. it'll be a rolling election day. millions of people will have voted by the time november arrives, and you have diminishing chances of changing minds or attracting voters with each passing day. now, look, this is still a very

tight race. we saw a couple polls over the weekend, the last few days, showing harris with a lead up to six points. it's obviously more significant than we've seen, you know, in the last few weeks. it's still very tight. you have to look at individual state races in wisconsin, pennsylvania, these other states. and many of them are within two points or tied and so forth. he has every opportunity still to win, but very few opportunities to change the narrative. i think i'm not sure he wants to change the narrative. he's going to fight this campaign as he sees fit, regardless of what his advisors tell him to do. >> peter baker, thank you very much for coming in this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll have the latest on the war in ukraine as the u.s. considers allowing kyiv to use long-range weapons in its defense against russia's invasion. plus, another shakeup in the inner circle of new york city mayor eric adams. what we're learning about the

resignation of his chief legal adviser. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. the future is not just going to happen.

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allowed to use long-range weapons to strike deep inside russia. the comments come as president biden is still considering whether to allow the move. currently, ukraine can only use some american-provided weapons in certain parts of russia. russian president vladimir putin has said allowing long-range weapons would put nato at war with russia, raising fears of how moscow might respond if the u.s. green lights the plan. joining us now, former reporter for "the wall street journal," matthew brzezinski. he was stationed in kyiv and moscow for the paper. and jonathan lemire has the first question for you. >> good morning. let's talk about this debate right now within the white house about these long-range weapons, whether to authorize their use for ukraine deep inside russia. first, tell us, why would this be such a difference for kyiv? why are they advocating for this so hard? >> well, good morning.

the russians are basically hiding behind a roughly 150 mile limit beyond their borders, and they are using -- they're keeping command and control centers there, their airfields, and they are using these locations toimpunity, since ukre cannot hit them back. last friday, the british prime minister was in washington, d.c., and they had been telegraphed for quite a while now that biden would lift restrictions and allow the british at least, initially, to grant ukraine permission to use the storm shadow missiles to strike those very important and strategic assets. the russians completely freaked

out, expelled a bunch of british diplomats, and most likely withdrew a lot of their assets beyond that 150 mile range, which is the range of the storm shadow. while a lot of people were disappointed that biden did not green light the british to allow the ukrainians to use their missiles, i think this, in fact, was a very, very smart move. because the ukrainians will benefit from a little bit of breathing room. the russians took this very, very seriously. almost certainly withdrew a lot of their assets. munitions dee poe s munitis depos, things like that. this will make it harder for them to prosecute this war. at the same time, the biden administration is protecting the harris campaign from any blowback that might occur, let's say, if putin did retaliate.

and we have to keep in mind that putin may be planning some kind of october surprise that will help trump and his narrative, that if you elect the democrats, there will be world war iii. >> matthew, let's dig a little deeper here. there's been a lot of saber rattling from putin since the early days of the war, warning escalation if the u.s. and the west take certain steps, that could involve tactical nuclear weapons. at this point, putin hasn't followed through on any of the threats. what's the read? how seriously should we and the u.s. government be taking this? >> well, you're right that, so far, every red line has been crossed that he's drawn and he hasn't done anything. however, we are, you know, toward the tail end of an election here. it is really important for the russians that donald trump win. so the biden administration must

be extremely, extremely cautious not to do anything that will -- that the russians will use as a pretext to escalate this war. perhaps, i don't know, maybe shoot down one of our global hawk reconnaissance drones, something that strikes us, something that then donald trump uses to his advantage. while it's incredibly important to stop vladimir putin and to help the ukrainians, i think it's much more important right now to stop donald trump and make sure that he is not elected. ukraine's needs, as great as they are, must, i think, take a backseat to our own needs right here. the biden administration is wise to proceed with caution. if any green light is given, the

british have to take point on this and it has to be british missiles and not our own. so for seven weeks, for the next seven weeks, the ukrainians, unfortunately, are going to have to take a backseat to our own domestic needs here, which i think are greater. >> former reporter for "the wall street journal," matthew brzezinski, thank you very much, matthew, for coming on the show today. we appreciate it. >> thank you, mika. >> take care. coming up, we'll be joined by a journalist who, last year, interviewed the suspect in the apparent assassination attempt of donald trump. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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45 past the hour. more on the man in custody in what the fbi is calling an apparent attempted assassination of donald trump. identified as ryan wesley routh. the 58-year-old has a long criminal and civil court history, including a 2002 conviction for possessing a weapon of mass destruction. a machine gun. records also show convictions for carrying a concealed weapon, possession of stolen property, and a hit and run. he resided for decades in north carolina, and most recently lived in a small coastal community in hawaii. it also appears he made several small contributions to the democratic fundraising platform,

act blue, including 19 payments in 2019 and 2020 in amounts under $25, according to federal election commission records. and in a now deleted june 2020 post on x, the suspect wrote that trump was his choice in 2016 but thought trump was getting worse and devolving, before ending the post with, "i will be glad when you are gone." he has been very vocal about u.s. support for ukraine. last year, he spoke with "semafor," about his attempts to support ukraine's war against russia. take a look. >> ukraine is reluctant to be cooperative. >> reporter: that's ryan routh, a u.s. citizen who set up the volunteer center in ukraine to help connect foreigners to ukrainian military units. >> talking to over 100 soldiers every day. pretty much everybody, all of my contacts in ukraine, they're

adamant, pretty much yelled at me every time i suggested that we bring in afghans. >> all right. joining us now, the journalist who conducted that interview with routh, worked for "semafor" at the time but now is a reporter with "the free press." tell us, first, how you decided to do this interview, how it came together, and what you learned about routh's background. >> good morning. in terms of why i decided to do this interview, i was reporting on the story about the u.s.-trained, elite afghan commandos who were being sent to ukraine or tried to join the ukraine war effort. one of the -- my sources inside the kyiv government, actually, put me in touch with ryan routh as one of the liaisons. he set up this international volunteer legion, which was supposed to bring together international fighters to ukraine. so he was working in that space. one of my sources basically sent

me his contact info as one of the more active ones there. that's how he came -- the interview came together. i record all my interviews on camera as a video journalist. as you can tell, it was obvious from the very beginning he was a little crazy. i think the interview itself, his background and his demeanor shows it a little bit. but, as i said before, nobody really cared at the time because he was doing so much for ukraine's war effort, and he was really helping. >> certainly, he followed up on his social media accounts, posting about the need that ukraine had. you got into it with your interview, he also had frustrations with ukraine, saying they weren't accepting enough help. >> right. he said that, per him, they were a little too harsh on accepting foreign fighters with dubious qualifications. they were doing too much vetting, per him. he had real frustrations. i don't think they were that

verified. i think it is understandable ukraine would want to vet the foreign fighters that come to fight for their country. you know, for many different reasons. yes, he was definitely frustrated. >> and i get your point completely, that someone interviewing someone in that context, there's going to be a little bit of a character at a bear minimum. if they are choosing that path to, you know, support so strongly a foreign war, be willing to go there. at this point, you wouldn't have had any sense to have been able to see that he was radicalized, which i think is basically what you can tell from his extreme views that are all over the place. >> absolutely. he did not seem -- and maybe i'm a little jaded because when you start interviewing people volun halfway around the world to fight the war you get a lot of colorful personalities and colorful characters. he was definitely not even the most shocking or out of line person that i've spoken to while reporting that story. so he definitely did not set off

any alarm bells in terms of being a future would be assassin of a former president. >> tanya lukyanova, thank you very much for joining us this morning. still ahead, democratic congressman jason crowe who is a member of the task force formed to investigate the attempted assassination of donald trump back in july, he will join us on the heels of the new apparent assassination attempt on the ex-president's life. plus, several republicans who worked for president ronald reagan endorse kamala harris for president. we will show you what they're saying about the november election. also ahead, we will go through the big winners at last night's 76th prime time emmy awards, including the record-breaking haul for the fx show. "morning joe" will be right back. x show "morning joe" will be right back

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a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. the chief legal adviser to new york city mayor eric adams has resigned. lisa zornberg abruptly stepped down over the weekend. while she did not explain the reason for her immediate departure the timing is notable as the mayor and his inner circle face an onslaught of

federal investigations including a probe into the source of campaign contributions. more than a dozen republicans who worked for president ronald reagan are endorsing vice president kamala harris. in a new statement the former staffers write in part, quote, the choice between freedom and the suppression of freedoms means support for harris/walz. the letter concludes with a call for fellow republicans to join them in november. and a founding member of the jackson five has died. tito jackson a guitarist and singer was the third of nine jackson children which included superstars michael and their sister janet. the family group which was inducted into the rock & roll hall of fame in 1997 produced several hits, including "abc" and "i will be there." tito jackson was 70 years old. still ahead on "morning joe," one of our next guests

writes that donald trump's lies about haitian migrants in ohio is another test for christian america. we will go through that piece. plus, cnbc's andrew ross sorkin breaks down this morning's top business headlines. that's all stron "morning joe." adlines. that's all straight ahead on "morning joe." ot under control. but now i have rinvoq. a once-daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema —fast. some taking rinvoq felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days— and some achieved dramatic skin clearance as early as 2 weeks. many saw clear or almost-clear skin. plus, many had clearer skin and less itch, even at 3 years. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin, heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur.

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the moment i met him i knew he was my soulmate. "soulmates." soulmate! [giggles] why do you need me? [laughs sarcastically] but then we switched to t-mobile 5g home internet. and now his attention is spent elsewhere. but i'm thinking of her the whole time. that's so much worse. why is that thing in bed with you? this is where it gets the best signal from the cell tower! i've tried everywhere else in the house! there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title. well, you've got to understand the golf course is surrounded by shrubbery so when somebody gets into the shrubbery they're pretty much out of sight, all right?

and at this level that he is at right now, he is not the sitting president. if he was we would have had the entire golf course surrounded, but because he is not security is limited to the areas that the secret service deems possible. >> the sheriff in palm beach county, florida, yesterday describing the situation at donald trump's golf course after an apparent assassination attempt on the former president. this morning there are still a lot of questions about the suspect, his past and whether the secret service is doing enough to protect donald trump. we're going to go through all of that. for now the former president has not made any changes to his campaign schedule. meanwhile, his running mate made the rounds on the sunday shows, defending his and trump's false claims about migrants in springfield, ohio. we will play for you those new comments, including j.d. vance seeming to admit the stories are made up.

also ahead -- 2016 and 2020. good morning and welcome to "morning joe," it is monday, september 16th. a man is in custody this morning after shots were fired in what the fbi is calling an apparent attempted assassination of donald trump at his golf course in west palm beach, florida, yesterday. >> the shots were fired by our reports from the secret service toward the man. >> the former president posted on social media last night that he was rushed to safety during the incident stating, quote, it was certainly an interesting day. he also thanked secret service and law enforcement writing in all capital letters, quote, the job was done absolutely outstanding. out initials say trump was playing a round of golf near his mar-a-lago home around 2:00 p.m. when secret service agents spotted a rifle with a scope in the bushes outside the course. >> and they spotted it -- what

happens is that the golf course, for those who know the area, the golf course is on two very active streets, there's a huge perimeter, and so what the secret service do, not only now, but when donald trump was president, they would advance the holes and they would go a couple of holes ahead of the president to make sure that the coast was clear. as you will hear here, even though some of the press conference wasn't as clear as it should have been, left some questions open, what happened was the secret service went a couple of holes ahead of the president -- former president, and they saw a rifle sticking out, they fired shots and then the man ran away and he got caught soon after. but the secret service, though, did as horrible of a job as they did in butler, as lindsey graham

said, they're overworked, they're exhausted, they don't have a life of their own, they need more resources and, yes, they do need more resources. in this case, though, as donald trump said, they did an outstanding job. something i haven't said of the secret service certainly after butler in a very long time. >> take a listen. >> fortunately we were able to locate a witness that came to us and said, hey, i saw the guy running out of the beaches, he jumped into a black nissan and i took a picture of the vehicle and the tag, which was great. in the bushes where this guy was is an ak-47 style rifle with a scope, two backpacks which were hung on the fence that are ceramic tile in them and a go pro which he was going to take pictures of. >> so the tip from that witness helped lead to an arrest. the man was take noon custody

and was identified as 58-year-old ryan wesley routh, according to three senior law enforcement officials. his identity was not released during yesterday's news conference. trump left the golf course in his motorcade a couple of hours later and headed back to his mar-a-lago resort. that's according to a source familiar with the matter. a source tells nbc news it will not affect trump's campaign schedule this week which includes planned stops in michigan, north carolina, new york and washington, d.c. vice president kamala harris released a statement that she was, quote, deeply disturbed by the possible assassination attempt of former president trump today. adding that she is thankful that trump is safe. yesterday's incident occurred two months after an attempt on the former president's life in july at a campaign rally in pennsylvania. so let's bring in nbc news national law enforcement and intelligence correspondent tom winter, also with us the host of

"way too early" jonathan lemire and president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. >> tom, a couple of questions just to make sure everybody that's tuning in this morning has it clear. the secret service going a couple of holes ahead of the president, as they do, they keep a protective bubble around him and the secret service at this point actually kept that protective bubble around, saw a gun sticking out of the bushes, the guy was on the other side of the perimeter, he was not on the golf course. is that correct? he was outside the fence, right? >> that's right. >> and before he fired any shots i guess he may have been getting set up, that's when the secret service fired shots at him, right? >> that's exactly right, joe. it's still a little unclear whether or not he was able to get off a shot or not, we don't have any indication of that at this point, but there were some initial reports of that. either way, it would have been

directed towards the secret service and not against the former president and republican nominee. to your point, yes, it does seem like the plan here worked. he is not -- donald trump is not the president of the united states. if he was the president of the united states that street would have been blocked off, there would have been additional agents ahead of where the president was, again, if trump was, in fact, the president at the time or if it was joe biden golfing on that golf course, for instance, and that street where this individual appears to have set up to your point exactly, joe, there are a number of busy streets that flank this course and that person or at least that street would have been blocked off and that person would have had a really hard time getting to that location. the suspect has been -- he was born in february of 1966. not clear what the potential motive may have been here. you're looking at a photo of him, i believe this was taken in ukraine where he traveled to in 2022. this individual had a number of

pro-ukrainian views and try tried to implore americans to travel there and try to help the ukrainians. so that is something that is out there as far as a political belief. his criminal past is extensive, an understatement, over 100 charges lodged against him over the years. this morning while there is no initial indication or any sort of evidence that this individual may have had an accomplice or somebody with him at the golf course yesterday, i think there is a big question in law enforcement circles as to how he was able to purchase this weapon because it would at least appear or some indications that he would have been prohibited by federal and state law from buying this weapon and if, in fact, somebody bought it for him because he knew that he couldn't buy one or somebody sold it to him illegally, that's a potential additional charge for somebody else. we do expect him to be charged federally. i know somebody who regularly appears on this program states

attorney said -- charges i just checked as we were starting the program, the federal court docket in florida nothing has been unsealed or filed yet that at least we can see publicly, but it will be the u.s. attorney's office out of miami that will likely bring this case. >> with a guy with a rap sheet this long it would be very distressing if he were able to buy an ar-15-style weapon. perhaps he did get some help there or maybe he did what some of the other people do, buy their guns illegally. jonathan lemire, a long rap sheet from this guy. he actually -- in 2016 he supported donald trump, but then was disillusioned with donald trump within before the ukrainian war, the russian/ukraine war, the russian invasion, and saw some possible support for other republican candidates in 2024. what do you know? >> yeah, you're right, on his

social media account he had suggested that he had backed -- soured on him, there was also some tweets suggesting some support for nikki haley, vivek ramaswamy and the like. his politics, though, fairly unclear at this point. certainly we should give credit to the secret service as you did, joe, that this is -- you know, as much as butler county went wrong, that was in pennsylvania two months ago, seems like yesterday they did everything exactly right. these are the sort of incidents that do happen from time to time. perhaps not as close to the principal like this one was where a man actually had a gun and was preparing to strike, where secret service disrupts these sort of incidents, they will arrest someone who posed some sort of threat to the sitting president -- >> jonathan, part of the confusion leading into the press conference yesterday was that there was just some bad misinformation that came out very early, people came out with statements very early. it started with shots fired in the vicinity of donald trump,

suggesting at donald trump. others there was a source for a couple hours that secret service saw the direction in which the shots were fired from and then we find out later though it was jumbled at the press conference, we find out later that it appears only shots fired were from the secret service toward the man to get him to do exactly what he did. >> right. no shots fired at trump who at that point was still several holes away. >> right. >> then was rushed to safety by the secret service. so, tom, what more do we know about this individual, you know, and -- the suspected arraignment is today. we should learn i would think more then. but are sources telling you anything about motivation as to why he would have done this and just also speak to -- the sort of lone wolf would be assassins pose. >> as far as this individual, we're not told he has made any sort of statement. apparently he was very calm at the time of arrest.

he's got experience being arrested, but he was apparently very calm at the time that he was arrested so there were no statements that were made there according to -- spoken with dave aronberg again said that -- they are talking about here this morning political beliefs and the things he has put on twitter in the past, things he has put on his facebook account both of which have been taken down at this stage. there's all sorts of different ideologies or things that he wished happened politically, but does that necessarily mean a motive as it pertains to yesterday and yesterday afternoon, not necessarily. so obviously investigators are going to have to be able to put that together. you talk about the lone wolf, the person who isn't on anybody's radar. just taking a step back and the overall picture of security, we are less than a mile away here where we're sitting this morning from the united nations and a week from today, a week from this morning, over 100 foreign

dignitaries, leaders, world leaders, world leaders that are tied up with their countries in war, talking about ukraine and russia, what's going on in the middle east with israel, hamas, hezbollah and iran, you put it all together this is an enormous security challenge for the secret service. that is always a huge security challenge for the secret service. >> yeah. >> now you've got this backdrop and they can't wait for congress to start a appropriating money this week or next week, they can't wait for somebody to come up with a new plan. i think there are going to be some very serious discussions and i'm told they started last night, how does the rest of this presidential campaign work with these candidates crisscrossing the country? we are told that the threats to donald trump, quite obviously here from what we've seen over the past two months are very high, but his opponent, vice president kamala harris, the threats to her are very high as well. you have family members, you have running mates for both of those candidates, you still have a president in the white house who has the nuclear codes and all the things that come with

being the commander in chief who deserves and is required by law to have the protection that joe biden has. so putting it all together what is going to happen here going forward and how much of a lean will the secret service have to put on local law enforcement? how much of a lean will the department of homeland security have to put on its other agencies to say these guys need some help. they just need bodies out there. it's very different than normal law enforcement work so it's not something where you can just say, okay, one day i'm investigating a crime, i can switch over to protecting somebody. no, it's very different. it's a special skill set and special training, but they definitely need additional help it appears based on the people that i'm talking to and i think, you know, you start talking about family members, talking about family members that are very much out in the open that have protection, i think that that's something that's going to take a hard look and what does that mean for our country. but these individuals that are out there that have sought now twice in the last two months to attempt to assassinate or

actually get close to with respect to butler, pennsylvania, within an inch or two of perhaps an assassination i think raises serious concerns for us as a country moving forward. if people think they can solve their political issues and their problems by showing up outside of a golf course with a semi-automatic rifle, if that's what's going to continue going forward then i think that changes things in a very negative way. >> and, again, this is as jonathan lemire said, this has happened throughout our history unfortunately. gerald ford had three attempts on his life in the mid '70s, bill clinton had one incident after another incident after another incident which actually ultimately ended up in the closing of pennsylvania avenue in front of the white house. these things happen. as tom said, mika, we've got 50 days. threats -- threat level is high against donald trump, threat level is high against kamala harris, the threat level is high and right now, you know, again,

as badly as they did in butler, pennsylvania, the secret service did their job commendably yesterday. everybody from donald trump to the sheriff of palm beach county to everybody involved is saying the same thing. they just need more resources. lindsey graham quoted in the "new york times" today saying that they work around the clock. they need more resources. there need to be more people. they have to figure out a way over the next 50 days to team up with other law enforcement agencies, local law enforcement agencies, and protect these presidential candidates. and then congress does need to step up and do their job and they need to fund the secret service adequately. >> nbc news national law enforcement and intelligence correspondent tom winter, thank you for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe" j.d. vance continues to push false claims about migrants in ohio, despite days of bomb threats in the city of

springfield. we will run through that when we come back in 90 seconds. when you purchase a pair of bombas socks, tees, or underwear, you also donate one to someone facing homelessness. one purchased equals one donated. 100 million donations and counting. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. growing your business is easy once you know the moves. with godaddy websites plus marketing, you can quickly create a website, and ai will customize it for you. get your business out there and get more customers in here. no sweat... for you anyway. create a beautiful website in minutes with godaddy. hi, my name is damian clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all these plans include a

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comcast tower. you will see she has positioned her -- >> an old joke. >> she's pointing it to -- fox and friends. >> no. okay. >> what? >> don't watch that. >> i did take a look and it's unbelievable. >> unbelievable. >> it's the things they omit that's the most fascinating. >> fox and friends. we love -- steve is a great guy. >> yeah. >> so republican vice presidential nominee j.d. vance continue to push false claims, these lies about haitian migrants who are abducting and eating pets in springfield, ohio -- >> let's just say this, though. he is lying, but he's admitting that he's lying. >> well, that's true. >> do you get extra credit for that? >> i thought you were going to make a joke. >> i'm not making jokes.

when people lives are in danger. >> that's for damn right. >> he's lying, but he's admitting that he's lying. >> right. >> he's like, look -- >> he's transparent. >> look, i'm distracting you here but it's really the ball is over here. >> he believes in transparency. >> here it is. >> the senator from ohio claimed yesterday in a series of interviews that constituents in springfield have brought the concerns to him. when pressed that there is no evidence of people eating pets vance appeared to confess that he knows the claims are -- >> not true? >> -- not true. >> when we say that officials say there aren't any claims, only officials that are claiming these claims aren't true are only officials that would know whether they were true or not. >> right. >> the mayor has come out and said not true. city manager i believe that's what they're called in springfield says not true. >> people begging for this to stop because their lives are in

danger. >> and the republican governor saying these claims are not true. now religious leaders saying please stop lying, you are putting people's lives in danger. >> so where do they come from? >> i don't know. let's see. >> american media totally ignored this stuff until donald trump and i start talking about cat memes. if i have to -- >> it wasn't just a meme, sir. >> -- create stories so that the american media actually pays attention to the suffering of the american people then that's what i'm going to do, dana, because you guys are completely letting kamala harris coast. >> so, reverend al, j.d. vance says the american media wouldn't cover this story so they had to

make up the story. american media didn't cover this story so he had to create the story -- >> if i have to create stories. >> he had to create this cam meme story that would be all cute if it was just donald trump saying that people are eating dogs and cats. >> there he is with cats again. >> he's obsessed with cats. there is now the threat of violence, fear of violence. >> bomb threats. >> bomb threats against people in springfield. >> they have literally had to close the schools and cancel town hall meetings because of these threats. and when you look at the fact that he is now admitting they made up a story, as you say, quoting him that the media wouldn't cover, maybe the media didn't cover it because there was no story. it didn't exist. but, again, this is consistent with trump's campaign. let's not forget donald trump as

president called haiti and several african countries "s" hole countries. you also have to put in and factor in that if you are someone that is anti-haitians in springfield or coming in to think you're defending the people of springfield whose pets are being eaten up, any black walking around springfield looks haitian. i mean, it is racist, it is a clear threat to people and just like i denounced whoever is trying to assassinate donald trump for whatever reasons, they should denounce the fact that they are inciting nuts to feel that they can go into springfield and save pets. that's -- those kinds of jaded thinking is what leads to killing. i did the funerals in buffalo, new york, of a mass killer that felt he had the right to target blacks. i've been to others and did

eulogies. this is dangerous, this is a threat to people and at the same time we denounce what apparently has happened as a threat to donald trump, we should denounce what is apparently a threat to blacks and potentially haitians in springfield, ohio. >> and donald trump -- donald trump has doubled down on this lie. he humiliated himself and just really his own campaign staff horrified, his supporters horrified that he fell for this third rate internet meme. eric errickson, very conservative radio host was just enraged that people around donald trump did not keep -- i think he was worried he had laura loomer was spreading these lies to donald trump. he got past the debate, he went on a campaign trail, and he continued the lies, even though he knew they were lies that would put immigrants and refugees in danger.

black -- let's be clear. not immigrants from norway. immigrants from haiti in danger. and republican governor -- republican governor of ohio mike dewine yesterday did what you've been seeing small business owners and factory workers do and that is praise the migrant community. in fact, you actually had people running businesses, running small businesses in springfield saying, this migrant community is the hardest working community we have. these haitians work harder than people -- they stay at their stations. they work hard. they don't leave early. everybody is praising how hard these migrants work and this is the republicans -- let me say again -- the republican governor of ohio praising them for their contributions and dismissing these continued vance/trump lies

against them. >> the haitians who are in springfield are legal. they came to springfield to work. ohio is on the move and springfield has really made a great resurgence with a lot of companies coming in. these haitians came in to work for these companies. what the companies tell us is that they are very good workers, they're very happy to have them there and frankly that's helped the economy. look, there is a lot of garbage on the internet and, you know, this is a piece of garbage that was simply not true. there's no evidence of this at all. >> the fact that j.d. vance would continue this on live television just -- like we said, transparently but with -- with no sense of the damage that they are causing to people's lives. and somebody is going to get hurt. like it's going to be on them

for saying these things over and over again when they're not true. we will talk more about this ahead, but first new polling on the presidential election. donald trump won iowa in the last two cycles, but things are looking awfully tight right now in the hawkeye state. those numbers are straight ahead on "morning joe." rning joe.

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i want to circle back, though, again, though, to j.d. vance and j.d. vance saying something about springfield that the mayor is saying is not true, the city manager is saying is not true and the governor of ohio is saying not true and, in fact, the republican governor of ohio praising these immigrants, legal, they're legal, which,

again, shows you just how stupid this whole thing is. they're trying to make some claim against illegal immigration, which of course i oppose illegal immigration, i'm sure you do, too. these people that they are attacking are there legally and they're working harder than a lot of other people in springfield, according to those people that are running the small businesses where they work. >> joe, the haitians in that community who are hard working, legal immigrants, are being used as political fodder for political purposes by this campaign. it's pretty cut-and-dried and they're trying to incite the strong feelings around the country about immigration and about the state of the economy. so what i was thinking this weekend going a little bit past just insane it was for a presidential candidate to bring up a completely unfounded racist

humaner in a presidential debate, a move that i think was a pretty bad one for him and has been reflected in subsequent polling because he just looks unhinged and not in control, i thought what similarities are we seeing with brexit? what percentage of british voters when they voted for brexit was about immigration. what's the anger over immigration in this small town and what are the implications writ large for the broader ecosystem and what is not being heard from that area. i'm not saying let's hear the inherent racism of what's been trotted around but what really are the issues happening there and what does it say about how people are going to vote this fall. >> yeah, this is clearly a fight the trump campaign wants to have, even though they're doing so with lies, dangerous lies. certainly donald trump's campaign most headline grabbing decision yesterday morning was trump's move in all caps to

tweet i hate taylor swift with an exclamation point and certainly that could have some blow back particularly with some young voters. j.d. vance doubling and tripling down on multiple sunday morning shows to -- not even to acknowledge that they're lying, they're exaggeraing what's happening here. this is something they want to know even though as the rev said earlier there have been schools that have had to close there, city hall has had to evacuate twice because of bomb threats, local colleges announcing they are going to have classes remotely because they don't feel like they can keep these places safe. when donald trump was asked on friday at his news conference in los angeles he was asked if he would denounce the bomb threats that are rolling in on springfield ohio he simply didn't. he chose not to. he wouldn't talk about it. >> are you saying that donald trump would not denounce the bomb threats in springfield? >> he did not. he would not say those words, he simply moved on to focus again on what he claimed was the

problem, these migrants being there and he touted his deportation plan instead saying we would get them out of there and saying we would send them back to venezuela when of course -- earlier in the week talking about haitian immigrants. it's all been racist, the rhetoric is there. as further evidence they are not backing down from this campaign sources tell me that trump is weighing a visit to springfield in the next week or two. coming up our next guest is calling on the secret service to brief congress on what happened yesterday in west palm beach. congressman jason crow reacts to the latest developments and the threats facing public officials nationwide straight ahead on "morning joe." traight ahead on "morning joe."

let's show you some new national polling that shows no movement in the presidential race following last week's debate. in the latest abc news ipsos poll vice president kamala harris leads former president donald trump by six points, 52 to 46% among likely voters and

that is the same as the final survey conducted before the debate. >> there are other polls that have also shown there is movement, actually, that have shown there is movement, national polls which usually don't matter, but those national polls, i think it was an ipsos poll, showed a six-point spread as well. but the most fascinating poll we saw this weekend came from iowa where one of the most respected polls and one of the most respected pollsters showed that iowa, which has been a blowout in years past is actually getting close. the poll shows that vice president kamala harris is cutting into former president trump's lead in iowa. >> the poll finds trump leading harris by four points among likely voters in the state. 47% to 43%. it is within the margin of error. in a june poll trump held an

18-point lead over president joe biden before he exited the race. a democrat has not won iowa since barack obama back in 2012. joining us now the conductor of the "des moines register" media com poll as well as president of the polling firm selzer and company. let's dig deeper into the polls that we were just telling our viewers about, if you could. >> i think that the national polls are holding, still it's good to keep that in mind that's not how we elect presidents, the action is going to be state by state. we certainly saw a lot of action in this last poll. one of those that makes your jaw start to drop a little bit, a remarkable change from june. you remember june? >> yes. >> things were so different then. this is a time when i think poll really helps to reflect back

what is going on in the conversations people are having, the thinking that they're doing, the decisions that they're starting to make. >> john heilemann, as i've always said with polls even when i was running i didn't -- i never took any bottom line as gospel, but i surely looked at the trend lines and if you look at the trend lines in texas, within five in a lot of polls, in florida, within five in a lot of polls. things have been 15 points. and now in iowa, which i never imagined i would see in this race, iowa within the margin of error. that really is -- that is a trend line that draws a huge headline. >> yeah, ann, someone i have spent a lot of time with over the years and very familiar with your -- with your work and methodology, you know, you look 2016, ten-point victory for donald trump over hillary clinton. nine points, i think. in 2020, eight points for donald

trump over joe biden. your last poll, i believe, correct me if i'm wrong, an 18-point spread between joe biden and donald trump. i mean, that's a trend line also. we're talking about a trend line over a couple cycles. this has been tighter than we've seen since 2012. talk about what's -- what are the dynamics that are driving that change and what do you think is going to be -- what are some of the dynamics that could make this even tighter, potentially put this state in play? >> well, the single most important factor that i found digging through the data was the question of why is this ringing in my ears. there are more people now saying that they have definitely vote. that's our definition of a likely voter, to say you will definitely vote. to say you'll probably vote, no, that's not strong enough for us. so we saw an uptick in the

proportion of our total iowa adult sample who said they were definitely going to vote. and that's not consistent across the subgroups. so you saw stronger increase, a bigger jump among women, among college educated and among people under 45. and those are groups that are tilting toward kamala harris. so it is the method that kind of captured the malaise in june and the giant spread for donald trump. part that have spread was due to a lot of people saying i'm going to sit this out. i might vote. they are not going to show up as a likely voter in our poll. now we're capturing an exuberance, an interest in voting, an enthusiasm for candidates and so that has ended up dropping the margin between

the two candidates. i credit my method for being able to pick up what's happening in the mood of our electorate. ? j. ann selzer, thank you for coming on the show. we appreciate it. >> ann's polls, they pick up a lot of trend lines. a mood in the electorate. i guess if you have to poll a process as crazy and an iowa caucus over a couple of decades, you have to keep your ear to the ground. >> that's for sure. >> she does that better than anybody. the big moments from yesterday's action across the nfl. we break down the story lines from week two. "morning joe" is coming right back. g right back introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source.

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on first down, mayfield looking down the sideline he's

got godwin again, inside the 10 and he will walk it in for a tampa touchdown. rodgers, looking, end zone, touchdown. reese hall. >> he needed every inch of that reach. >> first and 10, down the field it goes. the touchdown. >> on the rollout, looking deep for harrison! marvin harrison jr. to the end zone! trying to get to the edge, he's got a blocker. he's got more than a clocker, inside the 25, 20, did the sprints help? oh, boy, he somersaults into the end zone. touchdown charger. submits sets, fires down field, wide open, metcalf, touchdown! different game, williams in the game.

pressure, let's it fly, being deep, shaheen. he's got it, touchdown new orleans! he's got jefferson. it's a foot race down field with brown, shifting gears, getting a block. that's six. >> jefferson, magic. those were the biggest touchdowns yesterday from across the nfl. let's go to houston and the texans hosting the chicago bears on sunday night football last night. texans quarterback cj stroud threw for 260 yards and a touchdown, nico collins early in the second quarter that helped houston to a 16 point lead. the texans managed only one field goal after the break but the defense carried them the rest of the way with heavy pressure on chicago rookie quarterback caleb williams, sacked seven times in the game and picked off back to back possessions in the second half as the texans held on to beat the bears. the 0-2 bears.

19-13. let's bring in pablo toye. we want to talk about the saints, the big headline of the day, and baker. let's talk about the game last night. here you have caleb williams, again, somebody i don't think he has what it takes to be an nfl quarterback. it is early, doesn't help when you're sacked seven times, but, you know, the bears ran justin fields out of town, they added a lot of supporting cast. the bears are now 0-2, justin fields 2-0 in pittsburgh. not looking great in chicago right now. >> i had a feeling you would start there, joe. >> for good reason. >> i bought some caleb williams stock, i'm contemplating selling my caleb williams stock through two weeks because the price -- the price isn't in my favor.

look, caleb williams is the embodiment of the difference between college and the nfl. you watch him do stuff, he runs around back there and it's so potentially hypothetically exciting and then he gets sacked seven times. the guy has dropped back in the last game he dropped back 37 times, i believe, he was pressured on 36 of them. some of that it just falls, of course, i bring that up because not great for caleb williams, it's also the offensive line's fault, the offensive line being offensive, offensively terrible. so the guy is in jeopardy perpetually and the biggest case that you have for justin fields as you alluded to is justin fields handled all of this with actually less talent at the edges, at receiver and he was actually, again, a relative veteran to caleb, first two games he was better. so right now it's really, really bad, it's about -- i would say -- you've been making fun of bryce young quite a bit on this program and rightfully so, he is

terrible. bryce young had a better start to his nfl career than caleb williams has had through two games which is not good. >> the problem and you pointed it out is justin fields as we were saying every sunday at the end of last year was having a good year. the bears made a colossal mistake, i thought, we said it in realtime, getting rid of fields and not taking harrison jr. as their first -- their first pick. that would have been a revolution for the bears. they didn't go that way. not that i do this, you know i don't do this, i'm not the type of guy that says i told alabama -- i wouldn't do that you know that. >> no, never. >> i will say, though, another guy -- and i bring this up for a good point. there are second acts in america and baker mayfield is one of those second acts that i also believe a second string quarterback in jacksonville, mark it down, may prove himself

to be -- but baker mayfield, man, i didn't even see yesterday's performance coming. >> i'm going to stop you from the mac jones heat check to celebrate baker mayfield. joe, this is where you're totally right. sometimes -- and this is a baker mayfield story -- sometimes it's actually them and not you. >> yeah. >> so baker mayfield gets drafted number one overall by the browns, the browns are famously tash i believe, they end up with deshaun watson who is infamously terrible. baker mayfield goes to the panthers. the panthers are like we don't need this guy so he winds up with the rams, he proves himself with like no practice time to be a competent quarterback for a competent team and now in tampa bay he has taken down a team that is the most popular super bowl pick coming out of the nfc. baker mayfield, after a two-week analysis here, he is the mvp of the league through two weeks. coming up, our next guest

calls donald trump's lie about haitian immigrants another test for christian america. russell moore joins us with his new piece in "the atlantic" when "morning joe" comes right back. n "morning joe" comes right back as your host, i have some rules. first, no showers longer than 5 minutes. this isn't a spa. (laughs) that's a rule. meanwhile, at a vrbo— when other vacation rentals make you share your turf with a host, try one that's all yours.

welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. jonathan lemire and elise jordan are still with us. we go back to the update on the shooting on the mar-a-lago golf course -- not mar-a-lago -- donald trump international golf course yesterday. a suspect is in custody this morning following an apparent assassination attempt against donald trump. it happened yesterday at the former president's golf course in florida. nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake has the latest. >> reporter: this morning donald trump is safe, a suspect is in custody and the fbi is investigating what it calls an apparent assassination attempt on the former president sunday

at his florida golf club. authorities say a secret service agent spotted a rifle in the bushes near where mr. trump was golfing sunday afternoon and opened fire. >> they have an agent that jumps one hole ahead of time to where the president was at and he was able to spot this rifle barrel sticking out of the fence and immediately engaged that individual. >> reporter: agents rushed mr. trump to safety. according to the sheriff a witness saw the suspect jump out of the bushes and get into a black nissan. that suspect has been identified as 58-year-old ryan wesley routh. routh was unarmed when arrested and it's not clear if he ever fired a weapon, but investigators say they recovered an ak-47-style rifle with a scope, two backpacks and a go two camera at the scene not far from the former president. >> probably between 300 and 500 yards, but with a rifle and a scope like that, that's not a long distance. >> reporter: the suspect has a long criminal and civil court

history. he's also been outspoken on his support for ukraine. in an interview with "semafor" last year routh discussed his efforts helping volunteering with the war effort there. >> ukraine is reluctant to be koob testify. >> reporter: routh voted in a democratic primary in march. in 2020 routh wrote to mr. trump on social media saying he supported him in 2016, but expressing disappointment with the former president. overnight in a post on truth social mr. trump thanking the secret service and law enforcement for keeping him safe and said it was a, quote, interesting day. writing earlier, my resolve is only stronger after another attempt on my life. sunday's apparent assassination attempt would be the second attempt on mr. trump's life in three months. a july shooting during a political rally in butler, pennsylvania, injured mr. trump's ear and left the suspect dead. that incident is now being investigated by law enforcement and congress. no motive has yet been determined. >> and to be clear, in this case

so far it appears the only shots that were fired were from the secret service after they discovered the gunman with his gun -- >> a lot -- and this happens, breaking news, especially like this, a lot of disinformation coming out early, saying that there were shots fired in the vicinity and aimed at him. a lot of -- a lot of false information. a lot of ambiguity even in the press conference where there was a suggestion that shots were fired, he was on the inside of the perimeter, but, no -- yeah, exactly, the shots were not fired at the secret service but he aimed at the secret service and they fired back. >> joining us now democratic congressman jason crow of colorado. he is ranking member of the bipartisan house task force that was set up after the july assassination attempt. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. i'm wondering what updates, what amendments, what changes need to be made to former president

donald trump's security at this point, if any, do you think? >> well, i have to just say outright that i condemn this and any violence. there is just no place for political violence in america. we should settle our debates with debate and discourse, not with violence. you shouldn't have to be a democrat or a republican or independent or anybody to condemn that, it's just unacceptable. so it's unclear right now, we're gathering facts. our task force received a preliminary briefing by the secret service yesterday. we're going to receive another one, we've asked for a classified briefing this week for our members to get an update on this incident. the scope of our task force was limited to investigating the butler, pennsylvania, incident, so it's unclear whether or not we will be given the authority by congress to expand that to this incident. but already a month into our investigation we have identified a number of issues that failed in pennsylvania, that is from perimeter security to coordination with local law enforcement to a lack of

communication, to coordination between campaign staff and local law enforcement and secret service. so there were a lot of things that went wrong there and it's just too early to tell whether or not the same issues were at play here or not. >> well, you know, and it does seem -- and this is for you, congressman, but it's also for people listening -- there have been unfortunately comparisons between not securing the border in butler which was the worst -- >> the primter. >> the perimeter. the worst failure i have seen in a long time with secret service and comparing it to this. well, this is -- mar-a-lago, we had a state attorney for the county saying mar-a-lago is insular, it's easy to shut things down. >> contain. >> easy to contain. this is a golf course that has two major roads going past it. i have often thought as i drove

past it, wow, that is difficult to secure. >> to a jail. >> yeah, but here doesn't it bear repeating that the secret service actually did what they planned to do, they found somebody several holes ahead of the president while they were guarding to secure the location, found somebody and fired at them and did their job? >> yeah, it's very possible that's what happened. to your first point, there are people who are always going to draw connections or to try to bring politics into a certain issue and make this connected to some other policy issue when it's not appropriate and there doesn't seem to be any tie in doing so. so what we have to look at is what were the protocols and were they followed? that's the first step. if they were followed, then the second question is are those protocols and is that security actually sufficient in the environment that we are in right now? because even if they did follow the procedures and they do what they were supposed to do, you know, we are in an environment

of heightened threats across the board. right? after the july 13th incident on president trump, president biden ordered the full complement of security on both vice president harris and former president trump at the same level that a president would receive. so that is the level they're receiving, the question is is that enough in the environment that we are in. >> we are just 50 days to the election. let's get you to weigh in on the political rhetoric that has sort of heightened intentions in the air, even if we don't know precisely what motivated either of these shooters. and beyond that the concern that someone like this, a lone wolf as was the case in pennsylvania, not part of any sort of established network, that those are the kind of people who could slip through the cracks. >> yeah, lone wolf, as you say, that remains one of our biggest threats because they are very hard to detect. it's very hard to determine who

is serious versus who is just spouting out on social media. that is a big threat and that is a domestic terrorism threat that the fbi continues to really struggle with. but, listen, the environment here is just heightened across the board and that's why making sure that our elected officials, people that have a platform, are very clear in their language and they're very clear that violence is never the answer. it couldn't be more important right now. and that's not to say that we are not going to have tough debates, right? me and chairman kelly, the chairman of our task force we meet and talk regularly. we've been very clear that we are going to condemn violence as a group at the same time as we're going to have rigorous, sometimes very tough debates in this election cycle. we can and we must figure out how to do both because there are very consequential and important things on the ballot here and this is a tough election cycle and we have to be able to show that we can do both of those things. that we can have a tough debate but draw the firm line and never

accept violence. >> all right. ranking member of the task force on the attempted assassination of donald trump, democratic congressman jason crow of colorado. thank you very much for being on this morning. turning now to this, colleges in springfield, ohio, are shifting to remote learning as a result of the threats of violence tied to the lies about the city's haitian migrant community. in alerts to students yesterday officials at clark state college and whittenburg university announced moves to on line classes following multiple bomb and shooting threats. despite this former president donald trump and his running mate j.d. vance continue to down play those threats, ignore them, really, and amplify the baseless claims that have led to them. here is what trump had to say on friday and then j.d. vance yesterday. >> mayor of springfield, ohio, the police chief, the republican governor of ohio have all debunked the story about people

eating pets and now there are bomb threats at schools and kids being evacuated. why do you still spread this false story? >> the real threat is what's happening at our border. they are all now in the united states and they are taking over cities. it's like an invasion from within. we're going to have the largest deportation in the history of our country and we're going to start with springfield. >> thanks to kamala harris' open borders there are children who aren't getting a good education, thanks to ore open border there is a rise in hiv cases in springfield, ohio. this is what kamala harris wants to do to every town in this country. overwhelm them with migration, stress their municipal budgets, see communicable diseases on the rise. what is happening in springfield is coming to every town and city in this country. american media totally ignored this stuff until donald trump and i started talking about cat memes. if i have to -- >> it wasn't just a meme, sir. >> if i have to create stories so that the american media actually pays attention to the suffering of the american people, then that's what i'm

going to do, dana, because you guys are completely letting kamala harris coast. >> if i have to create stories, he said. >> that the american people pay attention. >> pay attention. >> so you're going to make up something that you said was a lie. >> you're going to make up stories. donald trump asked to criticize bomb threats, refuses to do so. >> double down on mass deportation. >> not only doubles down but springfield gets confused -- which i guess he's older and i don't know -- but he gets confused talking about venezuelan illegal immigrants. actually, they're legal immigrants, as the republican governor of ohio said, as the mayor said, the city manager said. it's interesting. that's a guy who -- a guy who said in 2016 that christians

should not vote for donald trump. let's bring in right now russell moore, he is the editor in chief at "christianity today" and leads its public theology project, an author of a new piece titled "trump's lie is another test for christian america." >> you write when we are willing to see children terrorized rather than stop telling lies about their families, we should step back, forget about our dogs and cats for a moment, and ask who abducted our consciences? that's especially true for those of us who, like me, claim to be followers of jesus of nazareth, who told us that on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak. to sing praise songs in a church service while trafficking in the bearing of false witness against people who fled for their life,

who seek to rebuild a life for their children after crushing poverty and persecution, is more than just causing a dissidents. christians do not need to struggle to figure out what jesus would do here. if we see children sheltering at home because they fear violence, we know that's wrong. and when we see that this fear comes from the incitement of hatred against those children because of where their parents came from, surely we can smell the brimstone. >> and, russell, just for people watching who say, oh, that's just some lefty, you, like me, grew up in a baptist church, you, like me -- well, i'm not going -- i will just say i've been against illegal immigration my entire life. i think we need strong borders.

i think we need to always secure those borders, and at the same time we need to do what we can do, like you said, to show love, mercy and grace as we go through the process. but here, russell, the lies about people who are here legally, people who are working hard, people whose bosses are saying they work harder than anybody that we can get to work in springfield and are here legally, working hard, pursuing the american dream, they and their children are in hiding now because of bomb threats and because of hatred and lies spewed by a ticket that's running to be the president and vice president of the united states. what's christ-like about them?

>> this is part of the moral sickness that we see around us right now. i think there is some good news on the ground in springfield. we did a report in springfield about what churches and pastors are doing. there is not the kind of demonizing of haitian migrants there locally, but it's coming in from all on the outside and it's coming in all over social media. this is going to get people hurt. we have children who are sheltered in place, scared. this isn't just cat memes and that's part of what is so alarming right now is we act as though it doesn't matter if we lie our way to the truth, if we just bear false witness against people, claim that they are abducting pets, using every kind of stereotype and demonization of people from other places, it's just -- it's morally sick and morally wrong. >> as an evangelical christian who actually believes in the existence of satan, you write, i agree that we can see the work of the devil at play here.

only it's not on the menu of the haitian families, but rather in the cruelty of those who are willing to lie about them. russell -- russell, my friend, you have said it and i've always brought up the story of the good samaritan because this hatred of all people who do not look like us, who do not think like us, who do not worship like us, it is the antithesis of what jesus said. and i'm just -- you are the theologian, but i'm going to quickly say for those watching that haven't read the bible, specifically those who claim to be evangelicals, jesus has specifically asked when he has said we must love our neighbors as ourselves, he has specifically asked who is our neighbor? and that's when he tells the story of the good samaritan. the samaritan who was hated and

loathed and despised by those jesus was talking to and yet talked about the good samaritan doing what religious leaders would not do and that is provide comfort and grace for the man on the side of the road who had been beaten. >> yeah, and i often think about what martin luther king said about that very story of the samaritan, the priest and the religious leader who passed by probably weren't doing that out of apathy, he said, they were probably doing that out of fear. they probably thought if someone is beaten up, probably robbers around here, i might be hurt next, and so that kind of fear leads to the mistreatment of this -- of this vulnerable person. and i think that's what we're seeing right now. there are people who, as some would say, conflict entrepreneurs, who want to cause us to be afraid of our neighbors. it's happened over and over again. it happened with italian

immigrants, with irish immigrants, with vietnamese refugees, others, to say you should be afraid of these people and, therefore, you should mistreat them and shouldn't care what happens to their children and even beyond that what happens to our own consciences and our own souls. that's a dangerous place to be. the bible says perfect love casts out fear and we have to be freed from this kind of fear. >> so, russell, i'm curious where you stand on this because obviously it's really important not to judge others, cast judgment. at the same time it seems like there is absolutely nothing christ-like about what trump and vance will doing, especially to haitian migrants in springfield. what do you say to evangelical christians who support trump and vance, especially in this? are they choosing to be blind to the destruction and to the danger that they are posing to these people, or are they still

in a category where you have to completely withhold judgment and assume that they are doing the best they can, they just don't know? >> well, i think there are some people who are confused by -- by the kind of misinformation, disinformation that rockets around the place right now. and for those people we need to slimpl talk about what's actually happening and how these words can be dangerous. but i'm less worried about the political ramifications of this than i am this ongoing cycle of demonizing one group after the other. that just can't keep going like this. we can't keep living like this as a society, something has got to give. >> pastor moore, elise jordan here. you earlier were speaking about bearing false witness and the troubles that come from that sin, but it used to be in politics that politicians on

both sides they were -- there was somewhat of a norm that you didn't bear false witness against your opposition and it was seen as unchristian-like behavior. how are we seeing that norm erode? >> well, politicians have always lied, but there usually was a more careful dancing around the lie. what's different right now is this attitude that happens of saying, well, maybe it wasn't true, but the larger meaning behind it is true. or maybe this doesn't actually apply here, but it does apply to the situation at the border. well, that's lying and it's not just lying, it's lying about a group of people and a group of people who are especially defenseless right now in a new country, escaping horrible, horrible situations. it's hard to find much lower than that. >> i remember, russell, in the

days after katrina going over to mississippi and louisiana and seeing evangelical groups on the ground immediately. i remember pat robertson's group immediately on the ground, other church groups immediately on the ground. so that's why i think it's very important -- and, again, for people that are watching that may not -- may get all of their news and information about evangelicals off of twitter or from what politicians say and the twisting and the perverting of the term evangelical to such a point that you even had tim keller saying before he died i don't call myself an evangelical, that's a political identifier, has nothing to do with faith. but i want you to talk about what you started with, evangelicals and i believe southern baptists on the ground in springfield, ohio, acting

christ-like, embracing these people who are the most vulnerable and reaching out and trying to help them. >> yes. you have church groups and christians caring for, looking out for their haitian neighbors and also saying to the outside world, stop lying about our neighbors, whether they're christians or not, they're people and we love them. those are the people, though, that usually aren't on twitter or on facebook spreading memes in the opposite direction. they're people who are just doing the work. those are the people i think that our children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren to come and the generations before us really need to see. they're kind of invisible right now. >> the new piece is available to read online at the atlantic.com. editor and chief of "christianity today" russell moore, thank you very much for

coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> take care. coming up on "morning joe," in just a few months tiktok could be banned in the united states. we will have the latest on the clash between the social media app and the u.s. government as both sides head to court later today. plus, hollywood gathered last night to honor tvs biggest stars at the 76th prime time emmy awards where "shogun," "hacks" and "baby reindeer" all won big. we will have the recap coming up on "morning joe." n big. we will have the recap coming up on "morning joe. indeed! everyone 45+ at average risk should screen for colon cancer. these folks are getting it done at home with me, cologuard. cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. i did it my way.

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l.a., lax. the fed widely expected to cut interest rates at the conclusion of its two-day meeting which gets under way tomorrow but the size of the cut is the big question. let's bring in co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin.

when you are at home watching football as you do every saturday and sunday and your friend calls you and goes, andrew, come on, tell me, do you think it's going to be a quarter or do you think it's going to be a half point cut, what do you tell them when nobody is listening? >> i tell them a quarter, but i don't think it actually matters. i think the truth is -- >> really? >> what's going to happen this week is the trajectory is going to begin. i think for the next 12 months you're going to see rate cut after rate cut after rate cut. this month you might not see it in october but you will see it in november again, you may see it in december. there is a question whether you rip the band-aid off and maybe you go 50 basis points this week, but if you don't get the 50 basis points this week you will get 25, maybe 50 basis points later in the next month or two. it's going to continue given the trajectory of where we see the economy headed when it comes to employment, the inflation picture seems to be resolved or at least -- by the way, i don't want to say resolved, there's

actually potentially a problem, but the employment thing is the thing they will be looking at more than anything and that's why you're going to see this. having said that, there's going to be big political implications that's what we really should be talking about because come wednesday no matter whether it's 25 or 50 basis points you're going to be hearing calls from former president trump suggesting that this is political, you're going to be hearing calls from others saying they should have cutmore. there's questions about -- you know, how much of a big push this can actually do to the economy and the truth is not much. you're going to see interest rates start to creep down, you've already started to see that already when it comes to mortgages and credit cards and that is going to continue at a pace for the rest of the year. how that impacts the election is the big question. >> andrew, i agree with you, i mean, jay powell was conservative with the small things, no big, sharp, sudden moves i wonder if it's because they got burned suggesting that inflation was transitory then it

went up to 9, criticized a couple weeks ago when it seemed things were slowing down too much. it will be curious to see if he goes for the half point. i think you're right, i think the safe bet is a quarter of a point. quoting from the title -- i'm serious about this -- probably the greatest business book of our century "too big to fail" i'm wondering if tiktok s in fact, too big to fail, too big to shut down, too big to stop because there is a lot of talk of course about banning it in the united states, i personally believe it should be banned or there should be some dramatic moves made. >> right. >> but, again, it's one of these things, just too big, is it just too big for anything dramatic to happen to tiktok? >> look, there's going to be the hearing today, it's going to be the beginning of a long process. i think it's going to be very hard to see this get barnd anytime soon. as you mentioned there is this element of too big to fail

insofar as there are so many americans that use this platform, influencers, brands, businesses, individuals, who love it. they think it's part of their life and they want it to continue. >> andrew, it is controlled by the communist chinese government. that's not a talking point, that's -- i know you know that, but i just want people that are saying, oh, it's so -- no. our children, our young americans, are having their views influenced by the algorithms that kowtow to the communist chinese party. >> well, look, this is where we may actually disagree. i think there is a prospect -- prospect ifl that the chinese government can use tiktok and misappropriate tiktok in bad ways. i think what i'm hoping to hearing during this hearing is actually real evidence that they actually have done that thus far

and i'm not sure we actually have dissen tingt documented evidence that an individual, for example, said, you know, crank up the algorithm on gaza or crank down the algorithm on uyghurs. >> tiananmen square. >> i don't think we've seen that just yet. there's clear evidence, statistical evidence which would suggest on a relative business to an instagram or youtube that those issues are cranked up and cranked down or at least it seems that way, but i think -- >> i know you hear from ambassadors, from foreign leaders, from people that do business in other countries that there are little -- they are a little chafed by the fact that the united states is being so aggressive in their dealings -- these third-party country dealings with china and are putting so many restrictions on

them because we're trying to protect -- you know, we're trying to protect -- >> people. >> -- our technology -- the people. we're trying to protect the people and we don't want our allies unwittingly or wittingly their businesses giving the chinese the technology and yet we let tiktok, again, control our children's world view. how does that make sense? >> look, i will take this side with you and we will agree on this, there is no way in the world that we would allow a foreign company or foreign country to own all of our tv networks. we just don't by the way. >> right. >> we won't allow it. prima facie you could say we shouldn't have this. i think there is a big question around not just tiktok but what the rules should be around controlling media, controlling social media and the like. i think this hearing will be the beginning of that. >> it's going to be fascinating. we shall see what happens. certainly great britain has stepped in and stopped foreign entities from coming in, buying

some of their more established newspapers. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you so much. we need to do an nfl special soon. >> yes, we do. yes, we do. >> all right. coming up a full recap of the prime time emmy awards, we will break down the top moments from the biggest night in tv. i don't know if it's the biggest night in tv. i think when "way too early" has its yearly -- i think that's the biggest night in tv, but we will be talking about the emmys straight ahead on "morning joe." be talkingbo aut the emmys straight ahead on "morning joe."

welcome back. the 76th prime time emmy awards took place last night at the peacock theater in los angeles with lots of big stars and plenty of nostalgia. nbc news national correspondent kaylee hartung has the highlights. >> and the emmy goes to "shogun." >> reporter: television's biggest night, a show stopper for "shogun," raking in a record

18 emmys in a single season, including outstanding drama series and a sweep of the top acting awards. >> "shogun" taught me that when people work together, we can make miracles. we can create a better future together. >> reporter: "shogun's" lead actress becoming the first actress of asian dissent to win the category. >> this is to all the women who expect nothing and continue to be an example. >> reporter: but it was the comedies that brought the biggest who canner with "hacks" pulling off a surprise win for outstanding comedy over "the bear." >> i appreciate this because i don't get enough attention. >> reporter: still "the bear" was able to cook up major wins, jeremy white for lead actor in a comedy. >> this show has changed my life. >> reporter: his co-star making

history as the first latina as best supporting actress in a comedy. >> how could i have thought it would be possible to be in the presence of meryl streep and carol burnett. >> reporter: the night uniting the stars of "happy days" ron howard and henry winkler and "the west wing" all with eugene and dan levee acting as host. >> my most rewarding dad role ever has been being your dad. in "schitt's creek" because it got me my first acting emmy. >> yeah. >> reporter: the limited series category a run away for "baby reindeer" with six wins. the show's creator and star richard gadd delivering a moving speech. >> if you're struggling keep going and i promise you things will be okay. >> joining us now founding

partner of puck and the former editor of "the hollywood reporter" matthew bellamy. thanks for being with us after a late night at the emmys. the night's big winner, "shogun," were you surprised with how well it did and why do you think the show struck such a chord? >> not surprised at all. this has been the front runner since the reviews started coming out. this is a project that was insanely expensive, it probably would not get green lit today, took seven plus years to get to screens and it was a pretty big triumph. i mean, fx stuck with this show and to see all the emmy wins is not a surprise at all. it was a rare combination of prestige show that did very well in the ratings. the numbers were very big so not a surprise at all. >> the big surprise was "the bear" not getting the big award

in comedy series. i had asked you before, i wonder whether they conflated season 2 and season 3 and i've said on the air here that season 2, you know, episodes 5, 6 and 7, the can't hardly wait, the fishes and then the taylor swift episode at the end, may have been the three best back to back episodes i have seen, but season 3, man, it's a deep -- it's a deep dive, it's a deep cut. you have to be a big fan like me to enjoy season 3 and i'm wondering if that may have hurt in some places but helped "the bear" in others. >> absolutely. i mean, the fact is voters were supposed to be voting for season 2, but season 3 was airing during voting this year, season 3 not as well received as season 2, and not funny. and i think the fact that "the bear" won in all of these performance categories and all in the directing and all of these other categories and then

lost the top prize, that is unprecedented. i cannot remember when that has happened and it really was a statement by the academy that "hacks" is a true comedy. "the bear" is not a comedy. we saw liza win, that i think was a reflection of an outstanding performance in season 3 rather than season 2 which she was not as big of a part of. she had a great episode in season 3 which was airing and i think voters remembered that, even though they're supposed to be voting for season 2. so it will be interesting to see if "the bear" wins the comedy series emmy next year when season 4 is airing because that might be a reflection on season 3. it is just a weird thing that it didn't win for season 2 which was so amazing. >> amazing. >> i'm a "curb your enthusiasm" super fan and i cannot believe that it was the final year that "curb" could have won an emmy and it was a snub again.

does the industry just not feel the love in handing out awards when it's so many americans' favorite comedy? >> i agree with you i've been railing on this for months that, you know, a show that's been on the air for more than 20 years and has had so much really great episodes that it got the nomination and larry david did get the acting nomination, but it didn't win. it's just people take it for granted. it's kind of amazing. you could say the same thing for "the crown" which has been one of the great drama series of the past decade nd this was its final season. yeah, elizabeth won for playing princess diana but the show did not win for series. you had said a few years ago the final season of "the crown" is going to win all the emmys you would say yeah and it didn't happen. >> i'm a massive "crown" fan. the final season was remarkable. especially remarkable come back from the previous season. i think you're exactly right, i think "the crown" and i think

larry david -- i think they're just taken for granted. everybody i talk to, i'm sure everybody you talk to, loves -- loves "curb" and loved "curb" for years. i just think it just got taken for granted. >> yeah, i think it also -- there's a knock on it because it's mostly improvised as well and people think that is somehow lesser and not as good. i actually think it's more impressive that it's so funny and they are making up a lot of the stuff as they go, but that's probably why we haven't seen the other actors on the show get their due. i mean, jeff garland and susie essman you think they would have a ton of emmys for that show and they don't. that curb your enthusiasm one of the great comedies of all time has never won the comedy series emmy is remarkable. >> it is remarkable. the fact that, again, so much of it is improv makes it even more

extraordinary. thank you very much. coming up, one of the shows we could see on stage at next year's emmys a very royal scandal takes on the infamous interview with prince andrew where he was questioned with his friendship with jeffrey epstein. ruth wilson and the journalist she portrays joins us in studio coming up next. joins us in stu coming up next the itch and rase to severe eczema disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema - fast. some rinvoq patients felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days. some achieved dramatic skin clearance as early as 2 weeks. and many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers, including lymphoma and skin;

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that was a gripping look at the new amazon show titled "a very royal scandal." the three episode mini series dramatizes bbc journalist emily maitlis' exclusive 2019 interview with prince an through droo you to question him about allegations of sexual assault against him as well as his ties to jeffrey epstein. the sit down was as revealing as it was devastating for the duke of york. in the days following the release of the interview prince andrew announced that he was stepping away from his public duties indefinitely. joining us now the star of a very royal scandal, ruth wilson, and the journalist who ruth portrays, emily maitlis, she also serves as an executive producer on the series. thank you so much for being here. echl i wil -- emily, let's start with you watching this. seeing it come to life again in this way, what are your

thoughts? >> in the clip i felt the palpitations start again. what you saw there at the end of i think the first episode is the moment that i never knew about in real life, which is when the whole thing had been called off. the whole thing had been canceled. so there was a moment where we think this is never going to happen and it was only in putting the drama together that we got all the different voices from the news 19, the bbc news 19 originally and i started piecing together bits of the story. i guess the consequences of that one moment was pretty devastating and we're only now just starting to understand the full effects it's had on this moment of british history, on the monarchy, on the shape of the royal family now. we're still learning. >> momentous and a master class in interviewing sometimes just letting -- being quiet and letting the prince continue to speak. we have all had similar moments where we've realized that is the best moment in an interview but you did it so perfectly.

ruth, what drew you to this role and also what were the pressures or expectation toss play a real life person who is there on set and right now sitting to your left? >> it's always strange talk being emily sitting next to he can i will, but, no, it was amazing. i watched the interview back in 2019 and i was blown away with it, it was what i consider one of the best pieces of drama on tv. when i read the script i thought, okay, we are not just recreating this interview, we are sort of seeing the lead up, how news 19 got that interview, speculating why andrew took that interview in the first place and also seeing the consequence of it. actually, this drama asks questions, it asks questions about privilege and power and responsibility that comes with that privilege. it also questions the power and limitations of journalism. and also asks about news as entertainment and royals as entertainment and the very british -- the particular british relationship we have with royals and press. i thought it's an amazing piece to get into. >> absolutely and you just

really turned into emily which is so uncanny having both of you sitting here and you have always loved your work as an actress, but seeing you in another role and then i'm like, oh, is that actually emily? good job there. >> incredible. >> emily, when you were there in the moment did you have any idea how big it was, what was coming out of prince andrew's mouth, what he was saying? >> there was a moment where all you can do is think, am i asking the questions right? and the whole interview was formulated in a way like a kind of forensic police deposition almost. my editor said to me we have one chance. you will get one chance at this. you get one hour with a senior member of the royal family where you are going to ask whatever you like. and what he says become a document of public record. whatever happens after that, if it goes to court, if he gets expedited, if there is a police

inquiry, it all has to come from the answers he gives you. so the pressure at that moment was huge, and i guess you have to be right in that moment. i wasn't kind of laughing at what he said, i wasn't even trying to think about what it would mean when people saw it, i was just going through did i get the date right? did i get the name right? did i get the deposition right here? was i actually following the argument that he was sort of laying out for me? because you only get one chance, right? so that was how i felt. >> so, ruth, what makes this such a fascinating character study, for all the wrong reasons, is how clueless prince andrew was. i mean, i had heard after the interview they thought he hit it out of the park, they were happy, everybody -- but even during the interview you said he didn't regret his association with jeffrey epstein, and so

here you've got this extraordinary story which really does highlight just how out of touch prince andrew was. >> yeah. it was like seeing two worlds collide and that's what the show depicts. you have this news world and fast paced journalism and facts and accuracy and it comes and clashes straight into this royal world which is in a bubble. you have the consumers of that, the public watching. yeah, you realize that he had no real idea of what he was -- who he was coming up against. this wasn't going to be a fluff piece, this was a very serious piece of journalism with a serious journalist asking serious questions. he didn't know how to answer that. i think he believes he was given a good interview, being honest and open and up front and aeng everything emily said. he didn't walk out of the interview. he thought it went well in those respects. it was extraordinary really.

>> he was very happy with it because in the tv world you get to chance to do b rolls, take fra shots and if somebody you've interviewed is unhappy with what they've just done you're out. nobody is going to do the extra shots and talk and walk and he took me a guided tour of buckingham palace and he showed me where his mother, the queen, was working, showed me the staircase and took me to the room where they were having the cinema party afterwards and pointed out this incredible statue, like a bust of prince albert and he said, next time you come -- next time you come -- we will talk about my great uncle, prince albert i. so i went away thinking something has just happened. something happened in that room and we've got two totally different takes on what that was. and i don't think it was

actually until they saw the headlines the next day in the british press and they realized what those pictures were looking like and what those statements sounded like that the kind of full force of it came crashing in. >> wow. >> and of course the next time you come, as he said, he won't be there. because of this interview. by the way, michael cheen is playing prince andrew. >> he's absolutely brilliant. it's an amazing counterstudy of that particular kind of person. andrew -- i mean, working with michael, doing that interview, i mean, there's so much pressure around that interview obviously because everyone has seen, it it's been memed so we knew we had to get it right for the audience but we did it all in one shot in one take. it felt like a piece of theater. michael and i loved it because we could find all the nuance in it, we could really play it