good to be with you. i'm katy tur. this is a monumental day, the federal reserve cut interest rates for the first time in four years. this was an aggressive 50 basis point cut or half a percentage point that will move markets and mortgage rates. it might also move the tide of the election. federal reserve chairman jerome powell followed the announcement with a speech of his own, appearing to signal more aggressive cuts to come, indicating that inflation is finally under control, all of this, just 48 days before the presidential election. big day. joining us now, nbc news business and data reporter, brian cheung, national affairs correspondent with the nation john nichols, and director of polling at the harvard kennedy institute of politics and msnbc political contributor, john

della volpe. nbc business correspondent christine romans will be here in just a second. brian, i shall begin with you, explain what we saw, and also tell me what he said in his news conference. >> yeah, and it's still going on right now. the big news,s big take away is federal reserve went big, decided to cut the interest rate by half a percentage point. there was expectation they could do that. it was a tossup. wall street analysts were arguing with one another. we know they're going to cut interest rates, would they cut by a quarter point or go big and a half point. they're going with the bigger option. the reason why is really the concerns about the labor market. what has been the story in the economy, it's been high inflation. the federal reserve raised interest rates to make those inflation rates come down, which they have, but the concern as of late is the unemployment rate has been ticking up thanks to also the high interest rates. the fed said we need to calibrate it and calibrate it quickly. that's why they went with the

half percentage point. jay powell saying you can take this as a sign of our commitment to not get behind. it's a strong move. >> what's going to happen in real life? what's it going to mean for mortgage rates and other goods and services? >> the fed announcement is high finance wall street stuff. just because they cut interest rates by a half percent doesn't mean a half percent on our mortgage rates, credit card rates and auto loan rates. the mortgage rates on a 30-year fixed have been going down as a leading indicator to the federal reserve. >> that's great news. >> it's come down from 8% in october of last year to 6.2% now. credit card and auto loan rates will go down in the next few months. don't expect anything dramatic. the fed is not slashing rates. we're not talking about rates going down to 3 1/2% on a 30-year fixed. >> you and i talked so much about the economy. especially in the upper middle west, and about how the economic

news that's out there is going to potentially change this election. having this news from the fed today, a half a percentage point, and an indication that they're going to do more in the future, what's that going to mean in the voting booth? john nichols. >> remember, people don't understand that, and that's an important thing to state up front. most americans know it exists, they know it does stuff, but they don't have a deep understanding of it. this is something bernie sanders has talked about for a long time, there needs to be a much deeper comprehension of how it works, what its impact is, et cetera. they do understand the impact of what the fed does, and if there is a rapid shift in where many of the aspects of life that people feel comes into play, and that's sort of a reducing of interest rates, things like that. it can have an impact, but what i would really suggest to you is

that this opens up a remarkable moment in our political history, especially in the upper midwest, and that is for the narrative. who gets to define what's going on. donald trump will say this is being done because the economy is in bad shape, and something horrible is happening and the fed had to intervene. kamala harris has a challenge here, and in fact, a political duty, if you will, to counter that narrative with an argument that actually, exactly what worked during the biden administration is now still in play. ie, the fed has pulled back and jumped in at different points where it seemed to make sense and the federal government is, you know, worked with them to the extent that they can. these obviously being separate entities. each of these candidates have a challenge to talk about this in a way that defines it and makes it understandable for the average voter, and for trump, we know where he will go. for harris, this is a great challenge, and an important one

at this point. >> we just got some news, john, this is for you on the teamsters, they will not be endorsing a u.s. president, not doing it this year. >> yep. >> what's your reaction? >> well, that looked to be where they were going, and here's the complexity. the teamsters are very divided. they released polling this afternoon that showed a substantial portion of their members, the majority of their members in survey research like trump over harris. they had some surveys from earlier that had folks liking biden over trump. it's sort of a complex, mixed picture. at the heart of it, there is a significant level of support within the teamsters union for donald trump. at the same time, there are sectors of that union, including locals around the country, one in north florida or one in south florida, i apologize, another big unit in michigan that have indicated that they really want to back the democrats in this race. and so in this divided

circumstance, the teamsters have chosen to stand down, right? and what you're now going to see is a very interesting competition around the country for teamsters units, right, for these members of the union. it isn't like the teamsters go out of play here. what happens is now there's going to be a lot of listening to what leaders of the union, local leaders and others have to say in places like michigan, wisconsin, florida, georgia, because this is a very big union. it has a lot of diversity within it, and it's significant. one bottom line, though, one bottom line. this is a tough one for harris because the teamsters did back biden. they have tended in recent cycles to back democrats, and she had made a final play just this week to try and get their endorsement. she would have liked this very much. what she got is the second best option, which is they didn't endorse trump. but also didn't endorse anybody

else. >> all right. let me ask you about the economy, john della volpe, there's new polling from the financial times, ft, regarding those who watched the debate and how they feel about kamala harris on economic issues and they're now feeling pretty good. 44% of registered voters, these are ones who watched the debate say they trust her to handle the economy compared to 42% who would pick donald trump. and this goes into, i think, something that we have a part of a sound bite, not the full sound bite on. donald trump was at a town hall the other day, and he was asked by a woman at the town hall, she said she's a mom of three, grandmother to seven, she has three great grand kids, a registered nurse and retired now. she says i know the cost going into raising children and running a household. people just can't survive, how are you going to bring down the cost of food and groceries? here's part of what he said to her. >> the economy is now not good.

and interest rates, you'll see they'll do the rate cut and the political stuff tomorrow, will he do a half point or a quarter point. the reason is because the economy is not good. otherwise you wouldn't be able to do it. >> again, he was asked how are you going to bring down the cost of food and groceries. that was part of it. the rest of the answer talks about energy bills, talks again about interest rates. he doesn't get to the cost of groceries. he doesn't get to the cost of food in answering this woman's question in a town hall, a very specific question, didn't go anywhere near what she was asking. is it that the people who are watching donald trump when he answers questions on the economy, like he did in the debate, are finding him just not to make any sense? >> well, listen, katy, i think that number that you just showed is one of the single worst polling responses i have seen about donald trump in a very long time. if he is losing to kamala harris

on the economy, i'm not sure where else he goes. it is clearly the number one issue in this country. it is the number one issue among the undecided voters that i talk to on a regular basis. and what they're looking for is some sense of stability in their lives. that is what i think this interest rate cut could mean if it's messaged properly. this is something that has an opportunity to boost young people, to boost families, to boost businesses. it is a significant advantage for harris if she runs with that. she's already leading on a variety of other critically important issues like health care, like climate, like vision for the future and obviously temperament, trust, and ways in which she can communicate. making that progress on the economy is very very significant for her. when i talk to young people, especially younger people who are the most undecided in this

election, what they tell me, every day they wake up hoping to survive, hoping to keep a roof over their heads, the idea of an american dream of a new house is something that's quite distant, and the idea of this potentially stabilizing the economic situation, the political situation could go a long way in the final few weeks of the campaign. >> the interest rate on the credit card is going to matter in the immediate term, also the price of groceries matters in the immediate term, especially for young people, even if a house is not in the near future. christine romans has joined us as well. we have been talking about the fed cut rate, half a percentage point, big news. jerome powell signaling there's more to come, probably not until after the election. >> there will be more rate cuts to come, i'm sure. they're forecasting, you know, they're kind of telegraphing that more will be coming. they say the u.s. economy is strong, inflation appears to be closer to its target of 2%. the job market is sturdy but slowing, and over all, they say

we want to keep it that way. when will voters feel it? right away you're seeing mortgage rates have been declining in anticipation of this. it's one of those pressure points for people. even if they just know that it used to be 8%, and now it's 6%, that is some relief there. i think on credit cards and on car loans, it will take a little bit longer to filter through, but this is one of those pain points for american households, high interest rates. we're at the beginning of the pain point starting to subside a little bit. >> the timing of this, the fact that he did it 48 days before an election, did he have to do it today? is there a political aspect to this? >> no, the fed is so, and says over and over again, it's not political. jerome powell, a republican appointed by a republican, by the way, i mean, this is something you could almost argue if they had been doing it in the summer, you could say, this is political, you're trying to help joe biden. joe biden is not the nominee anymore. the fed really trying to measure

what's happening in the labor market, and what's happening with inflation, that's its quote unquote duel mandate. it's got to just make sure that is the right kind of special sauce for american families to be able to keep their head above water and prosper. >> what is he doing here? he should go for a 2 point cut, arguing for 200 basis points, which i think is a two-point cut. >> we saw a 100 basis point cut when there was a global health crisis that shut down the world. you would only cut like that if there was something terrible happening. >> he's saying inflation is under control, the economy is moving in the right direction, things are good, why waste time, and why not just doing it. >> you run the risk of alarming the markets and everybody else in the economy too much by more aggressively cutting rates. some people made that argument for larger cut size, isn't the fed messaging the last time the fed did a 50 point basis cut was

right into a lead into the pandemic where after that they slashed it to zero. i think what the federal reserve is saying, we don't want to alarm the markets but we need to get this calibration right so it's not just an issue of inflation, that people aren't put out of their jobs because of the concern about the unemployment rate which has been ticking up, starting to shoot up, which hasn't happened yet but could if the federal reserve kept the interest rates too high. >> they were behind the curve, remember, in the beginning. they cut rates to zero, and waited too long to raise rates. they're not going to be behind the curve now. >> john della volpe, he's still with us, and john nichols about how this is going to affect politics. i'm curious, christine, we had an ft poll showing harris leading trump on the economy, among those who watched the debate. thoughts on that? >> when you see her on the trail or see her talking about child care, medical debt i heard her talking extensively about medical debt yesterday. she was saying she wants to cap

child care costs at 7% of your pay. that's a very specific thing. donald trump has talked about child care in terms of a golf game in the first presidential debate and in tariffs, he mentioned his extreme tariffs would help somehow pay individual families child care costs. i think it might be that she's just hitting more on something that families can say, oh, i need that right now. i don't need the sort of theoretical of tariffs in china somehow helping my child care bill. >> j.d. vance, john nichols to make a bit of a left turn here. >> shoot. >> this is going to be a real swerve, but i want to get you on this because we have been talking about it. it came to light that the "wall street journal" reported that somebody from his team, after he first posted about the haitians and eating pets thing, someone from his team called the town manager in springfield and said is this true, and the town manager said it's not true, we've got no credible evidence of this. it's not real. then j.d. vance went on again

after his team knew this and hit it, and then that night, donald trump went on the debate stage and hit it. so when we have, i mean, i think it kind of plays into all of this spiraling news, the economy's getting better and yet donald trump is still hitting these, instead of talking about the economics of things, or immigration, they're talking about in policy, they're talking about racist memes and this fear mongering, you were talking about how this is not going to play well in the upper midwest. you even mentioned iowa where actually polls are tightening. this story is still living on. how do you see it continuing to affect things? >> i think it continues to affect things because it lives on. you have the former president of the united states, the republican nominee for vice president continuing to talk about this. even when we have mounting evidence that they know what they're saying is false. the more that this is discussed, actually, i think the more it ultimately harms trump. now, that's an interesting twist

because on the base level, i think that donald trump wants to keep the immigration issue alive, and he and j.d. vance are willing to talk it to death, if they can, you know, find a way to keep it at the forefront of the discussion, and you're seeing them go to extreme places and to places that are frankly very dangerous. with that said, however, i think that if you saw kamala harris's interview with the nabj yesterday where she was very pointed and very poignant in how she discussed this. if she continues to discuss this, not just as the sole issue of the campaign, and pushing back against the lies and extremism, i think it has the potential to present her as the adult in the room, the presidential figure who is saying, look, we have to deal in truth, we have to deal in the fundamentals of these issues. so i think there's a space there, and it will go on. donald trump is not going to abandon immigration as an issue.

it's going to be a part of his campaign, and i think if i can just add one quick final element here, you were just talking about unions, right? unions become important in this. the teamsters did not endorse kamala harris. the vast majority of unions have. they do a lot of internal education, and frankly, in recent years, they have done a lot of internal education about the value of immigrants, what they contribute to the american economy, to our society, and even to the unions they are members of. and so going forward, there is a lot of potential here to frame this issue in a way that i think shifts the debate. we know where donald trump's going to be. to symptom extent, the question is will kamala harris and tim walz find ways in which to really say, look, on thisissue, who are the responsible players. >> i don't think there's been any polling in this issue, john della volpe, have you seen anything in regards to the spreading of lies? >> i haven't regarding that

particular incident, katy, but listen, everything about donald trump as we know it is about projection. if there's ever evidence that the economy is improving, becoming more stable, i think it's this efrt effort to move people away from talking about the economy and into some conspiracy theories and white nationalists and white supremacist conspiracy theories. to me, that's the evidence, and again, i'm telling you, what people are looking for is stability. stability, not just in the economy, but stability in the country and our discourse, and undecided voters, i think know and appreciate conspiracy theories like that when they hear one. >> john della volpe, john nichols, brian cheung, christine romans, everybody, thank you very much. again, big day, big rate cut from the fed. and still ahead, what sarah huckabee standers just said about kamala harris implying something about her because she doesn't have biological children. we'll play you the tape. sean diddy combs returns to

court to fight over bail. what he's facing. first, though, walkie-talkies exploded across lebanon. yesterday it was pagers. today it is walkie-talkies, we'll give you the latest from israel and what they're bracing for next. we're back in 90 seconds. n 90 ss . then i tried zzzquil sleep nasal strip. their four point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better. better days start with zzzquil nights. this is not a drill. subway dropped the price on all their subs. 20% off any sub, any size. subway did what?! any sub? yup! for a limited time. get 20% off when you order in app. hurry and get this deal before it's gone!

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walkie-talkies, yesterday pagers. the health ministry says 14 were killed and 450 injured in today's explosions alone. hezbollah is blaming israel for the attacks, and while israel has not yet taken responsibility, two u.s. officials tell nbc news israel was behind at least yesterday's explosions. here's nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez with what israel is now bracing for. >> reporter: for a second day in a row, we are seeing a chain of explosions tearing through lebanon yesterday. it was pagers in the hands, in the belts, in the pockets of hezbollah members that were blowing up. today, according to lebanese state media, it is walkie-talkies, these blasts happening in beirut, the capital of lebanon, and the south of the country near the israeli border and in the east, in one of the hezbollah strongholds in the bekaa valley. dealing with an influx of what seems to be around 3,000 wounded

people. now, israel is refusing to comment one way or another as to whether it was responsible for these attacks, but earlier tonight, israel's defense minister saying we have entered a new phase of the war, and that israel will be shifting troops and equipment from the fight against hamas in gaza to the fight against hezbollah in lebanon. now, two u.s. officials tell nbc news that israel was responsible for the pager attacks yesterday. and it appears that what we are seeing now is a few phase of that ongoing covert israeli operation. "the new york times" citing two officials saying that israeli agents smuggled small amounts of explosives into these communications devices. it's not clear at what point in the supply chain they were able to do that. one of the big questions is whether this cause hezbollah to back down or will it provoke them into all out war.

>> raf sanchez, thank you. and what sarah huckabee sanders said about kamala harris that could provoke female voters. first, though, sean diddy combs is back in court today trying to get out of jail. he wants bail. what might the judge do? don't go anywhere. where. (vo) you were diagnosed with thyroid eye disease a long time ago. and year after year, you weathered the storm and just lived with the damage that was left behind. but even after all this time your thyroid eye disease could still change. restoration is still possible. learn how you could give your eyes a fresh start at tedhelp.com. wealth-changing question --

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bail. combs pleaded not guilty to federal racketeering and sex charges. joining us now, nbc correspondent lisa rubin. they have a bail proposal for the judge. what's in it? >> they have proposed getting not more money but a variety of restrictions on mr. combs' behavior. no one would be allowed at his estate who's not a friend or relative or existing employee, no women would be allowed in the estate, but for relatives, his children, the mother of his children. he would submit to pretrial services, probation, a nightly log of everybody who comes to the estate, and desist from having contact with known grand jury victims. one of the allegations in the indictment is sean combs did exactly that in 2023 when he learned he was being looking at closely, contacted a number of people who were witnesses and victims, and they have two

recordings of phone calls in which he is essentially telling people be quiet. >> one of the allegations is obstructing justice. >> it's one of the underlying allegations to racketeering. >> his employees, he's being accused of leading an organized crime effort, and that the employees are kind of part of that, so is this going to pass muster with the judge? >> i don't think it's going to pass muster. i think there are two arguments that comes' lawyers could make that are more effective for him. one is he voluntarily came to new york, understanding that he was under investigation and likely to be charged because he wanted to surrender voluntarily. that never happened. he was arrested at the park hyatt before he could voluntarily surrender to federal authorities, but he had been in new york, staying at the park hyatt since september 5th. the other thing that they might say that's in his favor, the federal jail in brooklyn notoriously has troubled

conditions. there was a gentleman who passed away in july after getting in a fight. they go out of power for days at a time. it is not a place you would want to see your worst enemy, at least if you have a good and solid heart. so they may say that mr. combs doesn't deserve to be in the ndc. it's the sole federal facility in the new york metro area. lots of people stay there pending trial. >> if the argument is good enough for him not to stay there, why put anyone else there. >> it is under investigation more largely for civil rights violations because of the sorts of conditions that they've described in their letter. but to your point, lots of people stay in the mdc at any one time. over 1,200 of them, sean combs may continue to be one of them after today's hearing. >> would this expedite the trial? >> maybe, maybe not. they want to develop their defenses and get all the

discovery they're entitled to, but it puts pressure on them to want to have the speedy trial. >> lisa rubin, thank you very much. >> and coming up, inside the family feud that could decide the future of fox news. what rupert murdoch is doing to try and control his media empire, and maybe the direction of fox news. first, though, another prominent republican takes another swipe at childless women. what's made them a popular target for conservatives?

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not only do my kids serve as a permanent reminder of what's important, they keep me humble. so my kids keep me humble. unfortunately kamala harris doesn't have anything keeping her humble. >> that was former trump press secretary and current arkansas governor, sarah huckabee sanders, taking a swipe at kamala harris for not having biological children, reigniting the childless cat lady and the discourse around that, and had sharp rebuke from her step kids, cole and ella keep us inspired to make the world a better place. i do it through story telling. kamala harris has spent her entire career working for the people, all families. that keeps you pretty humble. joining us now, "washington post" senior political correspondent, and msnbc political analyst, ashley parker

and writer at large for new york magazine and author of all the single ladies, unmarried women and the rise of an independent nation, rebecca tracer. ashley, i mean, it says something when the ex-wife comes to your defense and says, no, she's a great mom, and cole and emma keep her grounded. why does the trump team keep going back here. why do they keep mining the childless cat lady insult? >> there's clearly a culture within the organization that starts at the top that they somehow have a dismissive, at least from the public statements a fairly dismissive attitude toward women who choose not to have children. on the blended family front, this is not the first time that kristen emhoff, the ex-wife of kamala's husband has come to her defense, and again, katy, as you and i know, we're part of

blended families or step mothers, blended families are incredibly complicated, and it is the toughest endorsement to get is that of your current partner's ex-wife. and that is something that resonates with millions of americans. and when she speaks out like that as she said yesterday in defense of the vice president, as she has previously, i hear from voters, from people who are stepparents from people who had stepparents from people who are in situations that are not conventional nuclear families from the 1950s, to say sort of how meaningful that sort of message is and that it reflects so positively on the vice president, her husband, and her husband's ex-wife, my final point, a point of personal privilege of a stepparent is step kids also keep you humble. >> yes, they do. i can tell you that. they did the second they became,

not even my step kids, but you know, when i was dating my husband, and they were little. yeah, they immediately humble you. rebecca, i won't go into detail. rebecca, this is now a part of the republican party, which is to say that if you don't have kids, you're not as worthy, you're not as good. there's something wrong with you, there's something bad about you. you can't possibly have the future or the country's interests in mind if you don't have children. >> yeah, and i think it's important to note that this is, first of all, it's alienating, as you and ashley are pointing out. it's alienating to millions of people who have all kinds of family shapes out there and know all kinds of familial dynamics. it's tied to republican policy priorities building over years in advance of this presidential ticket. certainly the overturn of roe with the dobbs decision that made it harder for people in

need of reproductive health care to get that health care, to get abortion care that they needed, in clarence thomas's concurrence with the dobbs' decision, he cited griswold which gave married people the right to contraception as a case the court might want to re-examine, and cited the marriage equality case. all of this you see in states across the country, republicans aiming for no-fault divorce laws, making it harder for couples to get divorces that they want to get or one member might want to get. all together, these republican policy priorities and issues are about reinstating certain gendered norms around power, doe the role of women, through

policy choices, they want to see more americans, early, hetero, married, having children. in part, j.d. vance has made this clear, pushing women who may be delaying child bearing or not having children or having children in different familia configurations. j.d. vance tweeted if your world view tells you it's bad for women to become mothers but liberating to work 90 hours a week in a cubicle, you have been had, making it clear he connects women's ability to control their own reproduction to their success and perhaps competition within high powered professions like the media and finance. these are the kinds of things we're looking at is the republican party's desire to reinstate an early married hetero norm in which women are primarily valued as mothers and not necessarily equals or professionals in the rest of the world. >> allow me to take a slightly

more moderate stance on this, or to put this question out there, is this rhetoric -- is it susceptible or is it encouraging or more palatable, that's the word i was looking for, to voters out there who might not believe women should be in the home, and all women should have children, and who might think women should have careers and not believe in the idea that you can't have an abortion period, but who might say the world is changing and it's changing fast, i don't recognize it any longer. i'm uncomfortable with the idea that we're changing pronouns, uncomfortable with the idea that more people are deciding to have kids without having a partner period, going out there on their own, the world doesn't look the same any longer. i don't like the idea where everybody has to work. i want to go back to a time that families could be more centered and more time spent at home and

not at the office. are voters who are feeling that angst, maybe not the extreme side but the moderate side of it, is this a palatable message to those voters, to potentially, i mean, do they think that, rebecca, they're targeting suburban women, like belt line women in philadelphia? >> they may think they are targeting those women, and of course if there weren't people who were susceptible to those kinds of impulses, then the republican party wouldn't have its sort of -- a lot of its traditional base. what is also true is lots of people discomforted by changing power dynamics in the world have blended families, and themselves may not have had children for any number of reasons or have a relative or a daughter who hasn't had a child. i think, you know, i'm not somebody who can predict how these messages are going to go over. i think they are running the risk of alienating all kinds of

people who might be idealogically aligned and personally insulted and attacked, if you haven't had biological children. >> rebecca tracer. ashley parker, i will say, did i do a good wife was the first time i felt humbled by having stepchildren. they're going to be mortified that i said that on television. thank you so much for joining me on this. mike johnson is putting a spending bill on the floor that's all but set to fail, what was he thinking. and what's happening in a nevada courtroom that could decide the future of fox news. .

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hunter: thank you so much. you have saved so many kids. announcer: let's cure childhood cancer together. harvey weinstein is back in court right now being arraigned on new sex crimes charges. joining us now, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. did not go far. what's he doing in court today? >> harvey weinstein was there today for what was a scheduled medical appearance, but last week, attorneys for the manhattan d.a.'s office announced they have a new indictment of him. he is awaiting a trial on the o prior charges reversed by an appeals court. they have added one new sex crime charge. sexual contact in the first degree. this is a family show. that means forced sexual contact, not penetrating, but

anal or oral sex. >> i will leave that there. thank you very much. we will follow more updates that come out of this. the future editorial direction of fox news is in the hands of air probate court. rupert murdoch is fighting the trust that gives the media empire to his four adult kids. he is trying to hand over control to one. the eldest boy. the son he believes will best guard fox news' success. what exactly is happening here, david? >> it's happening behind closed doors. npr and other media organizations have tried to pry it open. murdoch's legal team is arguing that the ideological embrace of

the right wing by fox news is integral, is core to the financial engine that fox news has become propelling the family fortune. this was a trust set up a generation ago when he left his second wife. instead of fighting him for half of his media empire, she said, i will take $110 million, a lot to you and me but less than she might have gotten for saying he would agree there would be a family trust so his then four children would share in the family fortunes but also family control equally. he had two daughters by his third wife. they share the money but no promise of control. decades later, he said, look, my son and i have been running the companies for the past few years together. we have had great performance in their argument. we want to avoid any fights and also my other kids may change what fox news is like.

the other son, the other boy, has argued that it is irresponsible to be embraing at times conspiracy theories other things that landed them in court, including a defamation settlement last year. this isn't responsible. murdoch said the oldest son is willing to be in his image. >> part of the argument is that it is successful the way it is. i guess he is trying to say that -- the only way he can get this done is to say he is trying to protect the financial benefit to the children. in order to protect that financial benefit, the success of fox news and the murdoch media empire, it needs to stay in control with the people who are having it in control. or having control of it. if you are spending that much money on a settlement with dominion and if you are -- how

do you convince a judge that no matter what, any changes in the future wouldn't necessarily be less successful? >> i think there's probably a financial argument to be made. in fact, even some critics of fox have made this case, that were fox to adopt something more down the line, a little more like the bbc, what used to be a fox -- excuse me, a fox corporate sibling called sky news in the uk or cnn, something more down the middle, that it would lose the loyalty of its core viewership. it's the top rated thing in cable news because it serves up red meat to a conservative populist and very pro-trump audience. were it to fail to do so, as we saw on election night 2020, a lot of the people would abandon fox. that is the dilemma from rupert murdoch's standpoint. this is my argument. this is the model that works. >> but is there any guarantee that if the other kids get

involved that they would make it into cnn or they would make it into sky news or the bbc? >> certainly, james murdoch has presented an alternative vision. he argues fox is chasing an aging audience in an age of cord cutting. it is immediate gratification without any sense of what the future looks like digitally and it's corrosive to american body politic and corrosive to the reputation of murdoch media brands which have core at their heart the idea of news that's corrosive to be pushing lies about climate change or election fraud when you have so many journalists working for your variety of properties across a number of countries. that's james murdoch's argument. there's the succession dynamic to it as well. they are not convinced the oldest son is a great corporate leader. in that case, why should they want their family of the family fortune to be tied up in what he

says? if they run it differently or sell off the properties, they could pocket more. >> this is in the hands of a probate judge in reno, nevada. do we have an idea when he might make his decision? >> this all is happening behind closed doors. the judge hasn't even acknowledged formally the names of the people involved in it. we are able to spot rupert and the children walking into that courtroom in reno this week. it's expected to wrap up next week, possibly early next week. the judge doesn't have to make a decision instantly. it's expected that whichever side or perhaps both would appeal all or part of the decision of the probate official in this case. it could well be tied up for many months or even longer, go through the nevada court system. this is a battle royal. it's where this was always headed given he had always pitted his two sons, but at least three of his adult children against each other as he dangled the idea that they

would be able to control this empire in front of them. he wants to control it in the grave and keep it in his own image even after he is gone. >> thank you very much. we will watch out to see what happens there. enormously consequential. happening on capitol hill right now, there's a stopgap funding bill on the table. donald trump has gotten involved. what's going to happen? joining us now, jake sherman. bill put on table by the speaker of the house, mike johnson. now donald trump is weighing in. what did he say? what's going on? >> reporter: the saga has been going on for a week. mike johnson had a bill on the floor last week that would extend government funding for six months alongside the save act, which is a bill that would require voters to show that they are a citizen before they vote. of course, voting -- you need to be a citizen to vote. he pulled that bill because he didn't have the votes. he still doesn't have the vote. it will go down in flames on the

house floor in about two hours or so, two and a half hours or so. the next phase is when mike johnson will have to say, listen, i can't get anything through besides a clean government funding bill until december. what donald trump says is, you need to attach that save act or shut down the government. he is not going to get this piece of legislation, this save act in the mix on this government funding fight. there's no way. zero chance. joe biden said he would veto it. the senate won't accept it. house democrats by and large won't accept it. donald trump -- the last government shutdown we had, we were on the air talking about it at the time was at the end of donald trump's first two years in office. the longest shutdown in american history. got nothing out of it and saw his approval ratings plummet. i'm not sure what he is doing here. mike johnson is hell bent on avoiding a shutdown. he told me that in an interview last week. here we are again. we are seeing the important

point to keep in mind, we live this. but we see what it's like to have donald trump have some fingers on the button of the legislative process. it's messy. it's real messy. >> how long was the shutdown? >> reporter: that shutdown in 2018 i think was 20 something days. it was over new year's day. it was over new year's eve. after republicans lost the house of representatives. >> 35 days. a lot of people going on furlough. people missing paychecks. you missing -- >> a lot of financial issues for folks out there with the government shutdown. politically, what does this do for republicans down ballot? >> reporter: if he shuts down the government, it would be political malpractice 48 days before the election or less by the time the government shuts down. i don't think it will shut down. then again, mike johnson is going to attract and has

attracted the ire of former president trump who is calling for a shutdown. shutdowns never achieve the intended result. the result that the shutdowner, so to speak, intends. it doesn't work. it hasn't ever really worked. it's a preview if trump wins the white house, he believes in these things and causes chaos on legislation. >> shutdown maybe october 1st, which would be just a little bit over a month before the election. remember, everybody in the house is up for re-election, everyone come november 5th. jake sherman, good to have you. you keep me humble, my friend. >> thank you. likewise. ♪♪ hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york.