proximity to election day. all of that is really bundled up in the political and legislative concerns here that they're trying to solve for on capitol hill. they just haven't quite solved for them yet. as we were talking about this morning, the clock is only ticking down. >> yeah, we just have about 30 seconds here, but are democrats just kind of sitting back watching? >> reporter: yeah. basically for right now. especially because there is this view that as it always does you get around the deadline and this thing somehow always works itself out. but there are a lot of political threads that we'll follow however this gets worked out because i think most people here agree shutting down the government is bad for the american people, bad for politics, too, and in november that's always what reigns supreme. >> thank you. keep us posted on any movement. that does it for us. i'll be back tomorrow at 10:00 eastern. "deadline: white house" starts right now.

hi there, everyone. 4:00 in the new york, a little more than halfway through the historic and unprecedented sprint that is the 2024 presidential election. 60 days since vice president kamala harris launched her campaign. 47 days to go until election day in america. and voters are reacting to the contrast they see between the two candidates. a candidate of change, an unapologetically joyful warrior with a positive message about what she would do for everyday americans should we win in november -- she win in november. squaring off against a deeply unpopular, frequently incoherent ex-president who has pledged to, in his own words, quote, be a dictator on day one. a batch of new polls show vice president harris in the strongest position of the race so far. "the new york times" poll showing her tied nationally with the ex-president but leading in pennsylvania. maris poll showing vice president harris ahead in michigan and wisconsin. that's within the margin of

error. a fox news poll shows vice president kamala harris up two points nationally over donald trump. they are the kinds of numbers that have the trump campaign -- remember that's the campaign that told "the atlantic's" tim alberta two months ago that they were planning to win in a landslide, now wondering what happened? here's the ex-president last night. >> got out, and they put her in, and she somehow -- a woman, somehow she's doing better than he did. >> what do we do with that? she's somehow a woman doing better than he did. he's shocked -- shocked that a woman could possibly be doing better than a man, than president joe biden was. that woman is kamala harris, and yes, she is drawing huge, huge, huge crowds, raising massive amounts of money.

almost triple the amount donald trump has raised last month. she is racking up endorsements that range from taylor swift to billie eilish, to former republican vice president dick cheney. kamala harris has run a campaign that has clearly put team trump and trump himself on their back feet. it's why you see all sorts of desperate attacks on vice president harris that say much more about donald trump and the people around him than anything else. people like sarah huckabee sanders and her nasty swipe at kamala harris for not being capable of humility because she has not given birth. here's what second gentleman doug emhoff had to say about that and about donald trump. >> they said that somehow because the kids aren't kamala's quote/unquote biological

children aren't enough to keep her humble. as if keeping women humble whether you have children or not is something we should strive for. [ cheers ] it is not. but i'll tell you what, going back to that debate, kamala sure kept trump humble at that debate, didn't she? [ cheers ] because that's what this is really about. and there is nothing, there is nothing more important to me, kamala, and kirsten, than our kids. our big, beautiful, blended family. [ applause ] and we know that all parents, no matter how you become one, make the same sacrifices and revel in the same joys of raising children as any parent anywhere. [ cheers ] >> at that where we start with some of our favorite reporters and friends. political analyst democratic strategist corner belcher is

back. plus two of the three co-hosts of msnbc's "powerhouse" weekend show, "the weekend," here. michael steele and alessia menendez. i can tell through the magic box that you're fired up and ready to go. i'm going to start with you. let me say this -- anyone in a modern family, call it a modern family, blended family is the word, doug emhoff knows, can tell you that the most humbling thing in the world is actually the life of a stepparent. i think glen and doyle and abby womack have this description. they, of course, are the -- i believe award-winning podcasters of "we can do hard things." what they say is it's all the pain, all the skin in the game, but not the name on the jersey. i think that's a beautiful way to describe the existence of a stepparent. so there's the stupidity and the meanness of sarah huckabee sanders which isn't revelatory, but you layer it over the

political stupidity of it. because divorce and remarriage and blended families doesn't know any ideological divide, right? any one of us would be lucky to find ourselves in that situation. but to smear and alienate every american in a blended family is politically idiotic. >> it is. you sit there and you scratch your head and go, is it me, or are they just stupid? is it me, or are they just rude, crude, and vile in their approach to how i'm shaping my life, how i'm working to bring a family together? there is no harder work than for a mother or a father who divorce, remarry, try to bring a family together with the idea of -- of being family. and they're now saying women aren't fulfilled or confident or

capable unless they have children. that a family isn't a family unless it is a mom and a dad who marry and never divorce or whatever they think it is. and you're sitting there going, how the hell do you think the country came together? this is bread and butter. this happens every day in america. and we've never found ourselves questioning motherhood or family, the capacity of individuals to create family. we've gone through these discussions as you -- as we dealt with gay marriage and what that family structure looks like. and america's like, okay, we good, right? it's about how you come together, how you raise those children, how you love them, how you care for them. and even if you don't have children, you're still family as a husband and husband,

wife-wife, man and woman. whatever your family is. and i don't need these -- i'll be good because it's 4:00 in the afternoon -- >> he knows i'm watching, michael. >> we're watching. >> i don't need these -- i'll put it this way -- these asses telling me what my family is and telling these how i raise my kids or looking at my family and judging it. you don't get to do that. and as a country, we've never done that. and i don't think we should start now. >> well and just to sort of meditate for a second, michael, on the party we were once in, it is the most unconservative thing to want to sit there in there with the ob-gyn. really what we're learning from the reporting in "propublica" in georgia, if you're a pregnant woman in a car accident, you

know, you need prayer as much as you need medical care in those situation. we're learning that the republican policy package is deadly for women. so all the places they want to be is the most unconservative thing. they want to be in the er with pregnant women. they want to be in the emergency room for the ultrasound. they want to be -- they want to be there if you are in a blended family, and they're going to look and see whether you're as humble as someone who's given birth. they are everywhere. and it is the most unconservative thing i've ever seen. >> it is the most unconservative thing. and even more than what you've just described is they want to see you damn near death before they offer help. and that -- that's the most cynical and sinister part of this, that as we've seen in discussions by women who are telling their stories and as the

vice president so well laid out in her debate with donald trump that women, families, men don't want to see themselves in the situation where the one they care for is bleeding out in a parking lot because the emergency room won't take them in. that's the america they're creating for us. and the -- the challenge they now have -- and it's coming home to nip a little bit. we see it in various areas around the country in the battleground states, but across the country where this storyline is not something americans want. and it is defining how they're looking at this campaign. and at the end of the day, whether you are pro-life woman or a pro-choice woman, no matter where your stripe is, you're looking at what the country looks like for your daughter and your granddaughter. and you don't like what you're seeing right now. that's i think where republicans and why you're seeing so many of

them backstroke, why right now they're stumbling over the ivf legislation. trying to hold the hard line while at the same time recognizing they're losing political ground with the american people. >> you guys are such co-anchors. you can hear uh-huh, sitting there -- i mean, showing up in the polls. i think if you are part of the pro-democracy coalition who doesn't thinking about pregnant should be a fatal condition in america, you'd like to see more pull away more. >> and you also understand the hypocrisy of what they're saying which is at a time when they are limiting access to ivf, limiting access to the type of reproductive care that is now jeopardizing women's future fertility, what kind of ways are they leaving for american women to have a family the right way? it's clear what they're doing which is they don't delegitimize kamala harris as a candidate, so they're going to try to delegitimize her as a woman that has a whiff of donald trump's

racist birther lie that he tried to weaponize against barack obama. part of what they're getting wrong is they think they can drive a wedge between women who have biological children and women who do not when in reality one of the few common experiences of being a woman in this country is to have every choice you make deemed wrong. you don't want to have kids, you're wrong. you want to have kids and go to work, you're wrong. you want to be home with the kids, you're wrong. they've managed to tap into one of the central commonalities of women voters in reminding us that kamala harris is all of us because what she has chosen is illegitimate and wrong. to go to something you and i have talked about, it's not enough conversation among women. it needs to include men. the fact that you have her husband on the stump, being the one addressing this, remind

american men this isn't just about the women in your lives. this is also about you and your family being under attack. >> and the most amazing thing is that the people attesting to kamala harris' role in their lives are doug emhoff's first wife, kirsten, i think she was the first to tweet and respond. this line of attack has been out there for a while. i believe that you have to go back to j.d. vance saying women should stay in violent marriages, that's what they think of all women. that a marriage that is violent is better than a divorce. that is -- a position of this ticket. and then cole and ella in their own words, their own voice speaking at the democratic national convention. i know this about stepkids -- you cannot make them love you in that role. >> no. >> if they love you, it is -- it is something that has transpired -- you know, my son has two stepparents who are extraordinary, characteristic

lawmaker -- curriculum night will be attended by a parent and stepparents. to see one of the many things burned up at the altar of trumpism is sick. >> it's also just -- i don't know to your point about the fact -- we don't expect much more of them, but i'm confused by the politics of. this to whom is this appealing? because we know who it's alienating. there's a small swath of voters who are going to tune in late, they know the things that donald trump has said, that may not have motivated them to a point of decision y. do they keep giving them new reasons ton vote for them? >> cornell, i mean, help us understand this. you think they've got sort of the elitists locked up. they've got the whole only one way to have a family, must be -- they've got that sort of view of the world locked up. why are they still talking to that voter? >> well, two things. before i dive into that, i want to point out, thank you for having me on your show. i have not been on the weekend

show at all. so -- >> it's a hard ticket. me neither. >> i know. it's hard to get on that show. so thanks for having me your show. but i'm going to take this and lean into another dimension on it. i agree with everything that's been said, but i want to unpack another dimension that i think speaks to why they're doing this. and look, as a child of the south, someone who was born and raised in the south, and hearing a deeply southern governor say that we're humble, it stinks of a trope that i think i'm familiar with. it stinks of a racial trope that i think i'm very familiar with, and the key word being humble. it's always been about you uppity blacks, and you got to know your place. and i think that is a dimension that i think they're leaning into, and they lean into

constantly. and vice president harris is an uppity black who doesn't know her place and needs to be humble. that's how i connect the dots on this statement, humbly. i put it, again, within the context of them leaning in to racial aversion and aggrievement politics, and this is absolutely a dog whistle, historical dog wisle when you're talking -- whistle when you're talking about blacks not being humble and knowing their place. >> that is the through line between what huckabee sanders is talking about. i think the -- the other way to marvel at their skblinl -- their political ineptitude is to see the through line between trump couldn't believe not just that president barack obama won, but that he was so good at it and that he was so popular. so to alicia's point, he wasn't -- he wasn't really a political actor, he sought to

deliberatize him -- delegitimize him for the same thing you're talking about. not only can he not be president, he can't be that revered as president. so the whole birtherism. it was ratist -- racist, a lie. it was about delegitimizing someone that was in every metric we have having a whole lot more success than his predecessors in modern time. >> in fact, you know, garnering back-to-back majorities. and i know we're going to talk about polling in a short moment, but we're talking about barack obama who was able to garner back-to-back majority support across this country while donald trump is a -- an accidental president at 46%, right? and yet, the other -- it was a whole othering of barack obama, and they're trying to other vice president harris now, make her not really american, make her the less than, make her not legitimate. it is, again, it is something

that people of color have had to teal withdrawal in this country -- deal with in this country for a long time. when she talks about humbling and her not being humble, i understand that this the historical stench of racism that that comes from. >> i just -- she's not black, she's not a mother because she's not a -- i mean, it makes it even lamer then, cornell, just to finish this point, that trump is so con founded by her ability to kick his ass in a debate and to be beating him in the polls. he's not aware of how -- >> thank you -- >> -- how impotent that makes him look. >> it's not what the majority of americans are. this is why he's stuck in the polls. again, that -- that middle of the road voter who's looking for answers around issues that concern their family, they're stuck and playing the -- the race bait southern strategy game that does not speak to -- i mean, look, that old dog don't hunt like it used to america. thank god.

because we just don't see that sort of resonance with broadly a stroke of american voters. certainly not where the majority of voters are now. they're rejecting those past divisive wars and ways of thinking. >> thank god it's -- go ahead. >> i just -- can i just make -- as i'm listening to both my friends speak here, it struck me -- what did the stepmoms in that audience think as they sat there applauding? what did the churn -- the children of stepparents think in this trumpian universe? how do you plaud the denigration of your family and the choices you have to make as that family? it's a compelling storyline to me that i think psychiatrists and sociologists beyond our moment in time are going to have to study to see how people applaud their own demise.

demise of their family and their rights. it's stunning to me. >> i'm all about going back in the trump story, rewinding the tape and trying to figure out the original sins. it's tied to how mitch mcconnell backs trump when he denigrates his own wife and makes racist jokes about elaine chow. it's tied back to kevin mccarthy. it's tied back to what tim alberta calls the stealing of their souls. it's all connected. if you follow michael steele on twitter or you are watching the news, you know that there's a big political story breaking out of north carolina. we have to sneak in a break, figure out what we can say on live tv. then we'll tell you all about it. it involves donald trump's -- the guy he backed for governor there. his name is mark robinson. there are disturbing new revelations. he reportedly -- comments he made about nazis and slaves and a lot more on a porn site message board. he's denying it and insisting on

staying in the race. plus, the town of springfield, ohio, is still grappling with the terror that has come into their lives and in their town since lies were told about legal haitian immigrants living in that community. lies that were spread by the two men on the republican presidential ticket. they've become front page headlines around the country. we'll talk to reporters on the ground about what that feels like for them. later in the broadcast, drum's rambling and in-- donald trump's rambling and incoherent speeches are nothing new for any of us. after mixing up a military base in the middle east with the wildlife refuge in alaska, imagining an audience was there when there was no audience there, we're asking again if this 78-year-old man is competent enough, if he passes the fitness test for the biggest job in the world. we'll have all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a break. e house" continues after a break i'm not an actor. i'm just a regular person. some people say, "why should i take prevagen?

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bombshell doesn't seem like the right word. a crazy piece of reporting has just dropped, and it's led to calls for north carolina lieutenant governor mark robinson to drop out of the race. before the story even broke, people have known about it all day. and now we have it. we know what it says. the reporting is from cnn. it has not at this point been independently verified by nbc news. it says that robinson made dozens of very disturbing comments on a porn site between 2008 and 2012 before he entered politics. the comments include robinson, the current lieutenant governor,

proclaiming that he is, quote, a black nazi, and saying he, quote, wishes they would bring slavery back, i would buy a few, end quote. cnn reports, quote, the comments were made under a user name that cnn was able to identify as robinson's by matching a litany of biographical details in a shared email address. many of robinson's comments were gratuitously sexual and lewd in nature. he reportedly describes himself as a, quote, perv, and describes peep being on women in public gym showers. now even ahead of the story breaking, he should be robust denial of the story and responded this afternoon ahead of it by posting this video. >> let me reassure you, the things that you will see in those story, those are not the words of mark robinson. you know my words. you know my character, and you know that i have been completely transparent in this race and before.

clarence thomas once said he was the victim of high-tech lynching. well, it looks like mark robinson is, too, by a man who refuses to stand on stage and debate me about the real issues that face you. instead, they want to focus on salacious tabloid lies. we're not going to let them do that. we are staying in this race. we are in it to win it. >> so lots of layers here, right? the sex stuff, which is too lewd to read to you, exceeds my skill set as a cable news anchor. but given how important north carolina is and where the polls are now at the top of the ticket, the national presidential level, and given how central it is to both candidates' path to the white house, it's significant that last thing he says there, that he's, quote, not dropping out of the race. and this isn't his first scandal, right? he's someone who says, quote, some people need killing. he's trashed the civil rights movement. and trump describes him this way -- as mlk on steroids. that's a quote.

"deadline" took off at midnight. tick tock, michael steele, the floor is yours. >> thank you. thank you. thank you. okay. so this was the line? this was the line? republicans, this -- so this was the line you're drawing now with the trump campaign and north carolina republican party's like he's got to go. this is the line? the porn site and the -- really? the black nazi stuff, that was a lie. the killing people wasn't a problem? all the other stuff he said before now wasn't a problem, as you end braced this man and raised him above your head and say he is us. well, he is you, north carolina republicans. this is who you nominated. you knew all this stuff about him. do we got -- we got videos going back years on this boy. on this man. give me a break. give me a break. and so here's the rub -- the numbers in north carolina show

that the democratic nominee for president is not only -- has not only spanked donald trump on the debate stage but is spanking republicans in the state of north carolina. and that race has tightened up to the point where she now is -- has strong leads in areas they didn't think would be possible. so that's why the gop and the trump campaign are now throwing this stuff up saying he's got to go. he's got to go. this is your line. and this is only your line, only your line because you're losing the state. because otherwise you'd be perfectly fine with all of this because you were fine with it before the poll numbers started going against you. that's how cynical and corrupt this process has become for republicans. >> please don't say spank again. cornell, let me show you -- i think -- this is my question editorially all day. what could be on the tapes? because this guy is -- this

makes mastriano look like a statesman. this makes the worst maga candidates of the last cycle true lie look normal. let me show you what was on the other side of the line, what did not 3d calls to resign -- not lead to calls to resign. here's robinson saying, quote, some people need killing. >> we find ourselves struggling with people who have evil intents. you know, there was a time when we used to meet evil on the battle foiled, and we -- battlefield, and we killed it. some liberal is going to see that sounds awful. too bad. [ applause ] get mad at me if you want to. some folks need killing. it's time for somebody to say it. >> let me show you more because this is someone importantly, back it the presidential race, let me show you what donald

trump thinks of this man. >> this is martin luther king on steroids, okay? now, i told that -- i told that to mark, i said, i think you're better than martin luther king, i think you are martin luther king times two. >> so donald trump thinks this man is martin luther king times two. this is what he says, i'm going to read it, about the civil rights movement. quote, this is mark robinson again, take a look at the so-called civil rights movement of the '60s, how the socialists, how the communists used that to manipulate people in this country, how they use it to subvert capitalism and used it to subvert free choice, and where you go to school and things like that. you look at what they did with it, i mean it's amazing that people can't see it. i mean, so many things were lost during the civil rights movement. so many freedoms were lost during the civil rights movement that shouldn't have been lost.

absolute backward view of history, cornell. that wasn't on the side of the line that's been crossed today with whatever has transpired on the porn hub. >> you know, i just want to underline everything that michael steele said here. and look, it's not hard to believe, why is this story a stretch, right, that he called himself a black nazi? he's been -- if you take -- look at everything he's already said from killing people to attacking the civil rights movement, why is this so out of place that he refers to himself as a black nazi? i don't think it's out of place at all. i will -- i want to step back, though, for a moment here because there's something -- when you look at candidates like this, and you go out to arizona and look at the candidate that they've had run -- running now twice and in pennsylvania, these -- candidates that you mentioned, you know, there is a

deterioration of -- of values and civic values happening that i want to say certainly is happening under donald trump and maybe donald trump opened the door to. but not being partisan here, but once upon a time, people okay by donald trump, they would not have had a chance in heck of -- of being top of anyone's ticket in the republican party or the democratic party. and now all the sudden you have these people who are ex-treatmentists and outside of -- streakists and outside of our value set and say crazy things about women and attack minorities and undermine our values. now they have mainstream in donald trump's republican party. it's set back from it, there's something much sadder and something much sicker happening that now these sort of candidates are okay.

he's okay, and they come out of republican primaries and represent the republican party. again, i don't want to be partisan here because i think it's a -- it's a sickness on the american political system and our values and whether you're democrat or republican, you got to look at what's happening in our politics and say, we've got to move this in a different direction. we've got to clear america of this sort of angry extremist cancer that is -- that is taking over certainly at least one half of our political party. >> look, i think it also argues for the need to eradicate both sides in talking about the two parties, right? one party is so sick that the line for maybe getting rid of someone is between, you know, the things he said about his arousal level and the kind of porn he watched on a porn site

and being a black nazi and talking about how some people need killing. the line is between those things. the other had the most successal president after the ticket after a performance that shook democratic leaders to the core. that party went through a public and excruciating process. he stepped down, and there's now a new person running -- the health of the parties is as stark of a contrast as any two things in our country. >> why are we so surprised about the things this man said in private given the things that he was willing to see in public to a huge crowd knowing that he was being videotaped and part of what was so alarming about the time he was talking about how people need killing. he wasn't entirely clear about who it was that he was talking about. it sort of ran the gamut from some biblical talk of evil to then talking about communists and socialists, and to your point about the compare son, there should have been a question of mental acuity and

wellness at that point that there was not. but there's no willingness to engage in these hard questions. this also to me is a reminder of elections are fluid. right? >> yes. >> pennsylvania's already voting. north carolina, people get to start early voting in about a month. like we -- when we say we have this many dates until election day, election day is happening right now, and there is any number of variables in these states nationwide that can change the contours of all these races. >> such a good point. cornell, tell me where you think the race is sort of behind the headlines, behind the polls, between harris and trump in north carolina. >> i tell you this, and i -- i have not seen north carolina truly tied in a tossup, even in some of the -- our internal numbers since 2008. we're going to win north carolina. yes, we're going to win north carolina. i'm going on record.

she's going to win north carolina. >> all right. that's a much better headline for us to make this hour than the kind of things on my desk that i'm -- i don't know, am i a prude if i can't read them? >> i have never seen you blush quite so much. >> the control room's happy that i -- >> nicolle! >> yeah. >> -- i was trying to be a good boy, and i was. >> you were good. now all of our viewers are on line looking for this story. you can read it yourself. i won't judge anybody. >> wait until the weekend. >> michael steele and cornell belcher, pros, pros. thank you for being here. >> real quick, cornell, i got my book -- we reached out to you a dozen times, bro. you just need to say yes. >> there you go. you can't call him out on live tv unless you're willing to wake up early on a sunday, friend. thank you, guys. >> see you guys on one weekend. up next for us, donald trump again vilifying the legal

immigrants in the small community of springfield, ohio, suggesting when he visits there he may not be make it out safely. why would that be? we'll talk to reporters on the ground on how his dangerous lies are the thing making the community unsafe for the people who live there. that story is next. that story ines xt tes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction.

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aurora. [ cheers ] you may never see me again, but that's okay. got to do what i got to do. whatever happened to trump? he never got out of springfield. >> misery in that clip to me is why are they clapping, right? unclear what any of that was. i think i know. but the ex-president is undoubtedly adding fuel to the fire for the people who live and work and have to try to survive and raise their families in springfield, ohio, by talking about planning a visit that the republican mayor warns would be a, quote, extreme strain on the city resources. trump continues to ignore calls from local and state officials in his own party to stop fanning the flames of this baseless debunked racist conspiracy theory about people who live there eating the family pets. to that point, his maga allies are now descending on springfield where remember this

guy, vivek ramaswamy, is hosting what he calls an immigration town hall there later today. the city itself is reeling from the recklessness of these lies. our next guest reports that clark county democratic party volunteers are now facing threats from far right groups while canvassing for the election. and in response to the bomb threats at the school the, the schools in springfield are telling students to be careful of false information while state troopers sweep the school buildings twice a day. joining our conversation, nbc news correspondent shaq brewster in springfield, ohio. and lifelong ohio an and managing editor of "wyso southwest," ohio's community owned radio station, chris welter is with us. alicia is here, as well. tell me what it's like there. >> it's been hectic the last week. you know, this is a community that has faced a lot of challenges for years and years. and you know, the haitian

americans here have been a part of that community for, you know, the last five years, and you know, they've been creating businesses, they've been working jobs, they've been going to school, they've, you know, they've been part of the community. so really right now things are just tense. there's a sense of anxiety in the air. there continue to be bomb threats every day. we're going on six or seven days in a row. you know, like you said earlier, governor dewine and mayor rue, resources are stretched thin. the ohio state troopers have been called into the city to kind of help keep the schools secure. but you know, when i was on tuesday sitting in the parking lot of one of the schools, there were parents running into the schools to pick up their kids after they heard about a new rumor of a threat on facebook. so everyone's just really on edge. and yeah, there's a lot of uncertainty about what's going to come next. >> do people feel -- do they

understand why they're in the middle of the presidential race with 50 days to go? do they understand that the lie that people like you, people have done the work to debunk the lie that nobody that follows the truth believes that anyone's labrador retriever is at risk? do they -- has it shattered their feeling that they're welcome in this country? >> i think it depends on the person. i've been able to speak with a lot of haitian american folks over the last week, but you know, i've been reporting on this issue since 2020. it's not even an issue. i've been reporting on the reality that haitian americans are moving to our area. and you know, kind of what they're dealing with and, you know, both the challenges and the successes they've had. so there are some folks that have talked about moving back to florida. i think there's a real misconception that these people ar immigrants or illegal aliens. they're not. the vast majority are transplants, people that lived in florida or long island and

decided to move to springfield, ohio, because of a cheaper cost of living and an opportunity to start their own businesses here. so some folks are talking about moving back to places where there's a larger haitian american community. but other folks are talking about, you know, sticking it out and being resilient, and that this, too, will pass. a lot of people have started businesses, they've started families here. so it's -- you know, they're in -- they don't want to leave. they care about this community. they care about springfield. >> what's amazing, alicia, is they're neither of those things, right? they're -- that is what donald trump and j.d. vance are calling them. >> and j.d. vance knows better. he knows that whether -- they're his constituents. they know he knows what temporary protective status is. but i want to take us to a moment in the debate where donald trump was talking about how -- spreading a lie that immigrants are coming and stealing jobs and says, you know who it's the worst for -- block americans and hispanic americans. he was trying to drive a wedge

between those of us who are here with paperwork and those of us who are not. i think part of what springfield has illustrated so sadly is that once that lie is out there, it attaches to all of us. to be anti-haitian is to be anti-black, to be anti-latino at the border is to be anti-latinos at the interior of this country which they're doubling down on by saying we want to depart 11 million people living on the interior of this country. so if he is trying to call to you and say don't worry, you will be protected, you will be special, you will be different because you have paperwork, they are now saying that is not true. temporary protect onned status, j.d. vance -- protected status, j.d. vance is still calling you an illegal alien. they see no distinction between people who are here without papers and people who are. >> shaq, i want to play some of your great interviews since you've been on the ground there. let me do that first. >> so it was a very terrifying

feeling. but i was also enraged because i know that a lot of it is rooted in lies against the community that has shown me a lot of love. >> all this activity with the bombing threats and stuff, i mean, it's -- has a little bit of an impact on the kids. they're kind of scared. >> what's going on now is chaotic and hectic. everybody has a right to live in peace. and this is just disrupting our peace. and there's -- these people are nice people. they're good people. >> shaq brewster, you're on the ground there for us. tell us what you're hearing. >> reporter: yeah, i think one of those conversations that our team had with parents who were dropping their kids off to elementary school, one of the elementary schools that was evacuated last week because of that hoax threat, one of the parents said he didn't know how to explain a bomb threat to his 6-year-old.

he tried to sanitize it a little bit and tried to still explain, and the 6-year-old started crying to him wanting to go to school, but also just -- scared and fearful of going to school. that's the word i continue to hear in the conversations i've been having with people. folks are fearful, folks are scared about the reality. of course it's the threats that we've been talking about, the bomb threats that have targeted elementary schools, high schools, campuses. yesterday it was a grocery store and a walmart. but it's also the fear that something else could happen because you continue to hear this rhetoric. you continue to hear false, these debunked and nasty claims continue to be made. i spoke to the manager of a creole restaurant in town. he told me people are still calling up his restaurant and saying, hey, what's the cat special today? are you still serving that dog that i'm hearing about? just hateful calls that he's dealing with. and as he's dealing with that, he's also dealing with members of his community, other

immigrants fearful of their reality. fearing that not only they can face a threat just existing in springfield, but fearing if donald trump is elected and that temporary protected status, that is what is keeping them in a legal status here, a legal immigration status here in ohio, if that is revoked, what that means for them when they have purchased homes, when they have started businesses. so there's a lot of fear that you're hearing on the ground, and it's fear based on very different things, but all rooted it seems from that lie. >> unbelievable. unbelievable. it is the anatomy of a lie, how it wreaks havoc on the lives of everyone from a 6-year-old to a restaurant owner to the city h it wreaks havoc on the lies of everyone, from a 6-year-old, to a restaurant owner to city officials. shaq and chris, extraordinary

reporting. thank you for joining us. alicia sticks around a little longer with up, up next, one of the most iconic and hot actors right now in america, she's in the hit show "the bear." she became the first latina to win an emsome for outstanding supporting actor. she's getting involved in the harris campaign. we'll tell you about it. n the harris campaign. we'll tell you about it. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy.

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liza for "the bear." [ cheers and applause ] >> thank you, thank you, thank you for giving me new life with this show, and to all the latinas who are looking at me -- [ cheers and applause ] -- keep believing and vote. vote for your rights. thank you. [ cheers and applause ] gracias. she's tina in "the bear." she's so good. she's fresh off the win from her role in "the bear" using her platform there saturday night to tell everyone to vote for their rights. next, she'll be joining governor tim walz, focused on turning out latina voters.

>> i can't watch that clip without tearing up. i've seen it a bunch of times. she's such a revelation in that show. i think it's interesting they're sending her to pennsylvania. pennsylvania is a huge electoral share? no, but it will be won on tight margins. so in a race like that, they'll make a bigger impact. also, so amazing she didn't write a script. she gets up there, you know, that moment of panic, i'm going to forget someone, and the thing that comes to her to say is -- >> vote for your rights. >> she knows who's watching her, the fact that that was her instinctual message says a lot. >> how amazing is "the bear"

season 3? i know it's polarizing, but i loved it the most. i have an image for a different show. i feel like in another three weeks, everyone will be living in pennsylvania. that's where you'll have to go if you need to talk to president obama or michelle, or liz cheney. >> think about casting josh shapiro. >> he would be a great host. that will be your next. uheard from me tomorrow. thank you so much ahead of times. >> thank you for being here the whole hour. >> stop thanking me. you know i love being with you. stop it. the oldest nominee for president just did something we're going to try to report out for you. he might have imagined something, he could have hallucinated. we don't know why, but he said there was an audience.

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they'll say, donald trump, this is who our president is, cognitively, i don't know if you saw, but a few months ago, i took a cognitive test. >> i asked doc ronnie. >> he said, sir there is a test. it's called the -- >> and then there's very few people chock -- >> a chair, a hat, a badge, a necklace. >> like a giraffe, tiger, this or that, a whale. which one is the whale? >> person, woman, man, camera, tv. they say that's amazing, how did you do that? >> i aced it twice. i aced it. >> i aced both of them.

>> i aced it. every question right. >> i'll let you know when i go bad. i think i'll be able to tell, because something we go bad. >> no conversation at the polls should exclude that. that's the other guy. his, everyone it's 5:00 in new york. trust me, donald trump says, quote, i'll let you know when i go bad. hopefully that won't be necessary. the rest of us are perfectly capable of watching and believing with our own eyes. now with just 47 days ahead of election day, donald trump already under scrutiny for frequently common lapses, something that's forced fox news to cut away more than they have ever done before. it hasn't been a banner week for the candidate whose date of birth is closer to the invention of the light bulb than today. exhibit a, an answer he provided

on the topic of energy. >> we would have been involved so much money coming out of the energy. we have the best. we bagram in alaska, it might be bigger than all of saudi arabia. ronald reagan couldn't do it, check it out, bagram. >> hmm, even sarah palin, anwar is an area in alaska, and bagram is in afghanistan. now, you could, you know excuse such a lapse if you were running to be the next president of the united states of america, or if you hadn't devoted the lion's share of his candidacy criticizing joe biden. now that donald trump is running against kamala harris, his worries about age are gone, old

news. so are we to ignore him when he says stuff like this? >> they didn't correct her once, and they corrected me, everything i said practically. i think nine times or 11 times, and the audience was absolutely, they went crazy. the real -- i thought it was -- i walked off and said, that was a great debate. i loved it. >> they went crazy? were they okay? there wasn't an audience. no one went crazy. there wasn't an audience. hear it for yourself when he walked onto the stage. >> announcer: let's welcome the candidates to the stage. vice president harry and form ever president donald trump. >> kamala harris, let's have a good debate. >> good to see you. >> thank you.

welcome to you both. >> there's no audience. no one went crazy. when democrats are confronted with -- it wasn't the same situation, but something analogous about whether their candidate could beat donald trump. they did a dramatic and extraordinary unpress derchlted thing, they made a change. republicans appear to be only more enthralled to a man who says stuff like this. >> you see millions of gallons of water pouring down from the north with the snowcaps, canada, all pouring down, and they have essentially a very large faucet. you turn the faucet, and it takes one day to turn it. it's massive, as big as the wall of that building right there behind you. you turn that, and all of that water goes aimlessly into the pacific. if they turned it back, all of that water could come right down

here into los angeles. they wouldn't have to have people not use more than 30 gallons, 32 gallons. they want to do that, you know. they're trying to do that. so much water, and all those fields that are barren, farmers would have all the water they needed. you could revert water into the hills where the dead forests, where the forests are so brittle. [ laughter ] >> big giant faucet that takes a whole day to turn. that you could put up in the hills and solve everything. it's kind of amazing, right, when you watch that? stop everything, stop traffic, just stop, what was that? amazing that no one in california, or trump himself for that matter in his first term, thought to turn the big faucet on or off, right? a lot of forest fires seemingly need leslie.

it is enough to make you laugh, right? if we weren't 47 days out from the most important presidential election of our lives. trump's public deterioration cannot be a punch line for the next 47 days. it must be a wake-up call. vaughn hillyard is in washington, d.c. ahead of trump's event. also giants us, charlie sykes is here. with me at the table for the hour, donny deutsche. vaughn hillyard, i start with you. i got a tip from someone at fox news, that they had stopped carrying his rallies about five months ago. tell me about the push and pull, and how much of this right when media is comfortable and uncomfortable broadcasting. >> reporter: right. kind of my role is not the psychologist, but as a reporter thinking one of the

conversations i'm often engaged in is the extent to which donald trump is potential distorting the facts, or whether he is truly confused about what the facts are. i think when you're listening to his rallies, or listening to his remarks, oftentimes, it is trying to decipher what that blurry line is, is it intentional or actual confusion? that's where i will cite the former administration officials that worked closely with him, from two of his former secretaries of defense, to former secretary of state, to former national security advisers to him, who have questioned donald trump's judgment, and the extent to which he would respond erratically to situations. we have seen he's increasingly surrounded by an operation that's not one that necessarily pushes back and engages in a conversation about the truth and

the facts, but one that has allowed him to live in sort of a distorted reality. that's where you see mike pence not backing him, not endorsing him. i think that oftentimes i think donald trump, who is really his chief communications director, chief strategist, a lot of this plays out in real time in his social media account. as somebody who follows him on the truth social account, he often is posting at 11:00 p.m., 1:00 a.m. i will say i'm often at times awake at those hours, but oftentimes they come out in all caps, when he said kamala harris should resign out of disgrace over the iran hacking incident. again, our job as reporters is trying to discern exactly the line between donald trump with that social media post, whether he has a good understanding of

the facts at play that the department of justice laid out to him to his campaign and the public, versus intentional distortion, versus actual confusion. i think that that is is for donald trump, and journalists have the most difficult job trying to discern. >> vaughn, you do it almost better that anybody on the beat. i know you have to leave us, but quickly what does the campaign saying for the reason talking about cognitive tests as often as he does? >> reporter: sorry, one more time, nicolle. >> what does the campaign explain as the background or reason for taking so many cognitive tests, talking about the results as often as he does. >> reporter: good question. i don't have an answer for on you that. donald trump is really in control of his own message, and he brings it up often. a lot of it stems from going toe to toe with president biden.

he wanted to try to make the case he was in a better position cognitive than the current president. now he's going up against a much younger, current vice president who donald trump has called into question and is trying to, as we heard yet when he was on fox, he questioned how is she beating him in some of these polls. how is she doing better than joe biden. i wish i had a better answer for you, but i think for him, it is you see versus them, and for him it's trying to strike back that contrast. for him, i don't think we're looking at a candidates who is naive to his age and those who question whether somebody at that age can serve to the same capacity as somebody who is younger. >> vaughn hillyard, i know you're up against an event. thank you so much for starting us off, my friend. >> reporter: thanks, nicolle. donny, i will let you,

because you know him i think everything he says is a projection and a happenless and unusually clunky effort of getting ahead of a perceived vulnerability. i didn't even play all the times he talked about having a cognitive -- if we could borrow a sarah cooper-ism. the time he talks about it is suspicious. >> whether it's money or his brain, what i don't get, and we're heading into an election 47 days away that around 80 million people will go, check, that's my guy. i don't think they care he's crazy. i think a big part of his base -- i have a friend, he's so toxic and think, and then he says, he's really crazy, ha ha, and then laughs.

i don't know how people can extrapolate out, this is the guy making decisions for the world, and he's not well. >> i think there's something different between a strapping lunatic and somebody feeble spilling his appear the sauce. >> which is worse. >> i only have -- i know some of those kinds of voters who are, i'll take the crazy bleep-hole over a democrat, but i think this is something different. >> focusing more on the evilness? >> incoherence, what is the explanation. if joe biden had ever talked about a crowd at a debate, we would have stopped traffic, tvs livecasting to see how long -- he imagined an audience where there wasn't one. >> i didn't know that guy. that guy was not. he was always full of baloney, brag adosius.

he was sharp, but now he's not. >> muse lynni was crazy, but his was vicious. i mean, this is feeble. >> i'm curious, do you think he -- when he starts making up things -- the last hour you were talking about springfield. do you think there's a mechanism in his brain where it's so jumbled at this point where he doesn't say i'm going to lie or this, but there's a wire that transfers to automatic lies or fans sits, and he's not even aware of it? >> i think -- we do need a psychologist. i only have a political lens. i think at 47 days out, he's scared to death that the decisions he's made, the association with laura loomer, the decisions he's made in terms of -- i can't imagine it was

anyone's plans to suck much as he did in the debate -- i know a bit from covering him there were people that were around him and made him sit down with a plan walking into a debate. he didn't do that this time. >> i think to your point, the people around him are telling him you're doing great, everything is great, showing him the right pictures, not showing him. i think to your point, he's completely delusional. i think this is coming out of delusion. >> charlie sykes, chris lacivita is corrupt to the core, but not stupid. i don't know susie wells at all. i don't think they're telling him attaboy when he ace parroting the things that lauren loomer is saying, or sarah huckabee sanders saying bad things about melania.

i think they think he can win anyway, maybe? >> who is donald trump listening to right now? who has his ear only their don junior and laura loomer, but to your question about what's more damaging, being this raving lunatic or somebody in decline, dribbling the applesauce. look, the latter is weakness, and it's exhausten. i think one of the donald trump's greatest political accomplishments has been to convince the media and much of the country that his jibbering nonsense is just trump being trump, that it's completely normal, that we should not hold him accountable. i also think this whole discussion is, you know, kind of highlights the media's dilemma and the dangers of sane washing the things he's saying. you listen to them and they

don't make sense at all. they don't. that's why even fox news is backing away. but in terms of whether or not he's doing this consciously, whether he's consciously -- i don't even think those categories exist in his head anymore. he's never been a great strategic thinker, but he's always had a reptilian instinct of what the voters want to hear. you can sort of see, play the birther card, you know, talks about the mexican rapists, the muslim ban. he thinking that will work again. he 'throwing all of this stuff up against the wall, but you get a sense that the synapses are not fired the way they used to. the his ar brain is not connecting. so, i can see why he's doing

what he as doing, but it doesn't make the sense that i think some of his -- some of his campaigns have made in the past, and i'm certainly not trying to give him credit he doesn't deserve, but, you know, this is a legitimate issue going forward. i think it's a challenge for the media. how do you handle somebody who makes no sense? who says things routinely that are nonsensical? do you try to make it coheater? do you ignore it? do you look the other way? why should we report that trump is saying crazy crap, because he always says crazy crap, because this crazy man wants to be the leader of the free world and have access to nuclear weapons. let me show you comments about this. >> latin music superstar nicky jam, do you know nicky? where is nicky? thank you, nicky. great to have you here.

you have to get d. olook. i'm glad he came up. >> i mean, to your point, he obviously thought that nicky -- latin superstar nicky, you know, she's hot, i'm glad he came up. he obviously didn't now who nicky jam is, but that he's a man. to your very good point. i don't want to rush through this. i have to sneak in a break. i've tried to cover trump with massive amounts of humility and wrestle on the air with what to do with him. there are people in springfield, ohio, that are afraid because of things his says. i've grappled with it publicly, but i agree completely with you. to the people who like their strong lunatic, they're going to comfortable pull the trigger.

so people who see him to feeble and addled, you know that everybody is there. either he wasn't paying attention or couldn't focus on the gender of one of his own guests. that's not a crazy lunatic, that's a feeble, diminished declining older man. >> and it's not entertaining. he's always been able to bring the show, makes people laugh. now people are walking out of his rallies. this a point that kamala harris is making, that he's become boring. that's death for a showman like donald trump. no one is going anywhere. when we come back, vice president harris is working hard to win over white men, and a group is trying to help her do that. we'll show you a new ad. also ahead for us, our dear friend rachel maddow, set to

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kamala harris is crushing donald trump among women voters in poll after poll. there's another group of voters that her campaign is seeking to do even better with, to make inroads with, boost her chances

for victory in november. that is -- men. there's a group trying to help her do that, white dudes for harris, rolled out a campaign ad today. here's a look at the ad in michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin. >> hey, white dudes the i think we're sick of hearing how much we suck. we're the problem, and yeah, some white dudes are. trump, in all his maga buddies are making it worse, shouting nonsense in their stupid red hats, acting like they speak for you will. if you're not on the maga train, where do you go? is it swapping out one cappy option after another. this isn't about picking teams, but who has a plan? i've been doing my own research, and before you jump down my throat, they're actually talking

to guys like us. no lectures, no b.s., but real solutions that protect our freedoms and help us care for the people that matter. i think harris and walz wants to make that happen. if anyone gives you crap about it, tell them it's none of their damn business. >> look at that. >> it's a ballsy ad, an interesting, interesting ad. it goes very deep. most political advertising you can put in a similar bucket. somebody's really thinking there. it's going very deep. it's hitting -- we were talking during the break masculinity is on the ballot. to me kamala harris is ten times stronger than donald trump. he's a weak man in every way a man can be weak. he runs from fear and runs from

hate and from insecurity. it's basically saying to guys, that guy up there saying everything sucks, you've been screwed over, that's probably not the answer. maybe you don't feel that way. do you really feel that way this i think somebody really, really had their thinking cap on there. >> to the degree this is a referendum on the state of being a made in america, there's big questions. can men in big numbers vote for a woman. can they associate themselves with laws that don't leave their wives, sisters and mothers to die because they got pregnant in america in 2024? it's big stuff for men. >> also, you can tell it aims at singer younger white men, but i think there's a lot of women who will get their men's heads right. i think that will happen. >> we're so tired! [ laughter ] >> no, i really believe it's --

i've said this so many times before that women will win this election. i think they'll save us. and that ad in its own way acknowledges that wimmer superior. guys, have you thought about that? hello, mcfly, mcfly! i think it's brilliant. >> i think the question before men, charlie is, you know, just with chalk up trumpism to tribalism, and the question is, can you make your tribe where the good guys are? i think there's a real cad dre of male leaders that men with associate with. tim walz, josh shapiro, the ability to see yourself on the other side, for someone who has voted for trump before seems pretty rho best. well, yes. it is -- what makes is so interesting is the fact that donald trump has certainly

weaponized masculinity. this is a huge theme he keeps pounding away on. that ad made my laugh out loud it was not heavy handed, not preachy. i was thinking, will they talk about what it means to be a man? i think this is also an important question. to be a man, you know, are you a sore loser? do you insoul and mock women? are you a bully? is this the way you raised your sons? is this the way you want people on your team to be? there is an idea of manliness that i think that we used to acknowledge. this is part of this cognitive dissonance, and they're honorable, responsible men who want to have imbued quality of honesty, decency, character and sportsmanship in other young men, and then they turn around and look at donald trump.

is he the role model they want? what does it mean to be a man, a strong man? what are we actually looking for? are we looking for, you know, this man-baby who clearly is one of the least masculine men ever to be in politics. i think this is something that men are going to have to deal with. who is a more genuine role model? tim walz? or a donald trump? this is one of his electoral strengths at the moment. i think it's one of his great weaknesses form the other thing i think this ad touches on something that i know that donnie has talked about in the past. i think one of the meta issues in this ways is not what previous campaigns were -- are you better off than you were four years ago? i think one of the big questions in this campaign, do you want to do this for another four years? aren't you tired of this?

do you want this? to be in your face for another four years? is this the message? is this the imagery for the country? i think exhaustion is the underrated x factor in 2024. >> one more about the masculinity, and the definition. some people will agree, some people won't, is looking after women, worrying about your daughters, worrying about your wife, your mother. as a primal instinct that i think a lot of men have that i think donald trump has the complete opposite. >> which is amazing, after he said you could grab any woman in between the legs any man would vote for him. when we come back, the larger than life ukrainian-born lev parnas, who is now pulling back the curtain on the scheme that let to trump's first

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when did trump's lackeys inside the doj also begin to conspire? >> basically from the very beginning, from that first initial meeting with trump, and right after that, giuliani started calling all his contacts at the doj and fbi to start

putting pressure into you, your data and all your dealings. the crazy part, i feel embarrassed. >> how does my bank reports get them. they aren't even on a computer. >> i'm sorry. it's humanity. we don't see a ton of it, right? if you didn't have that on your bingo card watching that, you're not alone. that was lev parnas, choking up to hunter biden for ginning up false allegations. it's just one of the surprising riveting, sometimes laugh out loud moments, from the documentary made by the brilliant rachel maddow. this is the first documentary

from her production company, called "from russia with lev." he's the ukrainian immigrant, and low-level hustler, becoming rudy giuliani's fixer, and donald trump's de facto political operative. all of it placed him at the center of the first impeachment, and secured lev's unlikely and infamous place in history. it debuts tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. joining us our conversation, the director of "from russia with lev" billy corbin is here. thank you so much for being here. that scene is so much. tell me about that moment. >> well, first of all, thank you for having me. i describe lev's story as tom clancy if jack ryan were played by jackie mason.

[ laughter ] that's really where this starts. other than the fact you just spoiled the ending, there would be no way to possibly predict that this journey would take us to a room in which where the man who tried to destroy hunter biden's life would meet him to beg for his forgiveness. i didn't believe, rachel didn't believe, it would happen even after we scheduled it. barely put it on the calendar. and by the way, we asked it before hunter biden was convicted, and before his father's debate against donald trump at the end of june. there was a lot of history intervening that would derailed this, but lev parnas called me, and said i would like to see permission to travel out of

state of to california to meet him face-to-face and apologize. would you be interested in filming that. i said, okay. remarkably, which is true to lev's story, for better or worse, completely absurd and illogical things happen around him. >> just for my viewers who were in the weeds, right, for every twist and tormented turn of the trump story, just remind everybody, what is the lev parnas story. he started a florida company that was supposed to be like a lifelock, but he wound up become convicted for defrailing those investors and a responseman for that company was rudy giuliani. he found himself in rooms of the most powerful people in the maga

world, by making sizable political contributions to donald trump's super-pac, to ron desantis, to rick scott, to jeff sessions, to a litany of people, all in furtherance of some schemy kind of russian energy company. he was looking for marijuana licenses to grow in various states, and ultimately, because he was the closest ukrainian to rudy giuliani, he enlists him to go to ukraine and dig up dirt on joe and hunter biden, because hunter biden sat on the board of this very corrupt ukrainian company called bur isma, and all of that kind of starts here with lev and his partner in literal crime, igor being dispatched by

the president of the united states and his private attorney rudy giuliani to go on effectively an offthe books shadow diplomacy mission to ukraine. >> there is a quote here in "variety" that i feel like encapsulates why the trump era has been what it's been, which is the effect that he has to dehumanize everybody. i never looked at the human being before. i looked at hunter biden as a mark, and never sat down to think about what he was going through, what the biden family was going through. parnas told the people at the screening, he wanted to apologize, saying, quote -- i wanted to make things right. it's sort of like, even the lego version of batman, like the

joker, you don't exist without me. trump doesn't know who he is without running against a biden, but to me, trump gets his operatives to dehumanize trump's enemies. when you're in trump's operation, you must dehumanize the enemy. i feel lining that is part of the story, too. >> i don't know that lev parnas has shared of hunter biden before rudy giuliani sent him on this heist, this scheme. this really is the story of the reality show foreign policy of a reality show president. that's where it begins, and what we should come to expect if there's a second trump administration, which is kind of chaos and mayhem, not just domestically but internationally. what happens here with lev parnas and hunter biden, is really a remarkable thing.

my understanding, i'm sure it's hunter biden will tell it himself someday, but my understanding is based on my very brief interaction with him is that the reason he did this was because, in his own program, working through his addiction, he felt that he had had to go to his family and loved ones to ask for forgiveness for the most horrible things he did and he put them through. he felt, how can i then deny this man his ability to make amends. that pass for, not just for forgiveness, but even accepting the offer, i thought showed an extraordinary amount of humanity, but a bit of hope, i think, in how people can possibly come together, no matter who wins in november, get over a really devastating hump that i think has torn apart a lot of families.

lev describes it as consultingized, and then decultenized, a cult leader that he then escaped from. i want to bring donie on the other side of the break. e on the other side of the break. when was the last time you checked in on your heart? with kardiamobile, the personal ekg device, you can check it from home using your smartphone. i use kardiamobile every day. sometimes twice a day. every morning i check, make sure i'm in good shape. and it makes me feel pretty good about my heart condition. it's a complete game-changer. [chuckles] i mean, you might as well be in a doctor's office.

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bromance made in heaven. >> reporter: what conversations have you had with lev parnas. boy was i wrong. we immigrated to the united states when i was 4 years old. while others were going to school, i was in the streets. i was a salesman. >> we were like two seats away from trump, and lev said something. instantly it was like no one else was in the world. >> he was a new york hustler, and we could relate. we're back with billy corben. >> i interviewed him, and found him to be an incredibly likable guy, very decent human being. just your -- we know the story, we know the arc. just human, what was your take of him?

>> i didn't believe this was actually going to happen until i wok of in los angeles on july 7th, with a text message, this is hunter biden, please call me. it was not a phone number i recognized, that was the first time i talked to him. he was talking about the logistics of the day, and suddenly we started talking about addiction, which i've had in my immediate family. i found it a brief, but profound conversation. i was really moved by it. anyone who has experienced addiction in their family, particularly their immediate family, as i have, i think we understand that relationship that the president has with his son. we've been there when your family member is hitting rock bottom, and you think they're going to wind up dead or in prison if they don't recover. i was really moved by it, and connected with him in that conversation.

he said to me, the next call you get will be from the united states secret service. that's what happened that day. >> i had that same sense of empathy, talking about his addiction, and just felt a tremendous empathy towards him. you have taken the conversation a different direction, so let me follow up with you. we are now at a place in november, president joe biden's presidency will be ending. i wonder about your thoughts on the conversation happening in every corner off-camera whether the president could reconsider his position of not pardoning his son. >> um, i don't know. i haven't thought that about. i would like to give that some thought. that's an interesting question. by the way, years how many times have you heard me say "i don't know"? >> i think the point what the documentary does is rehumanizes some of these characters, and

billy, of course, you working with our dear friend and national treasure you are, rachel maddow, you have done this important work. you have taken this subject matter that's been caricatured right and left, and you turned them into these deeply, deep reply complicated, sympathetic human beings. i think that's some of gift of this piece of work. i wonder if that was the mission. >> it was not. this was a 3 1/2-year journey trying to tell lev's story. this didn't happen until just this past july. it was very much an unexpected epilogue, but that somehow makes perfect sense in the world of this story that we were trying to tell. i don't know that it's going to overtake our 30 for 30, nicolle, for you and your part. i hope it doesn't.

>> i love this conversation. will you come back, billy corben? i think they're, of course, essential to the work you have just done, but things we talk about every single day. >> only if donnie is here. >> i just stop by. i don't get invited, i just walk in. >> he's always invited. billy, thank you very much. congratulations. donnie, thank you for being here for the hour. >> hopefully we're on the ballot, america, good guys have to men. >> white men. >> "from russia with lev" executive produced by our great grent, it premieres tomorrow night right here at 9:00 p.m. after a special edition of rachel's show at 8:00.

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