good at is we have seen. it is good for her and the campaign and for american democracy is my general take away. thank you so much for sticking around with me. that is all in. there's so much empathy, there's so much humanity in that piece of sound you just played. you see the anguish on her face and you hear it in her voice. >> yeah, she's, again, like i said she's a very compelling person. she's very good at -- in unscripted settings. i think it's pretty clear at this point, and so i think it's great to see her in those settings. >> see more of that. thank you, my friend. >> you bet. so when joe biden first

dropped out of the presidential race the earliest signs we saw of enthusiasm for kamala harris, the first indications she might change the fundamental dynamics of this race were these headlines. tens of thousands of black women mobilize to support kamala harris. we were built for this moment, black women rally around harris. when we vote, we make history. black female leaders rally around kamala harris. the very same day that president biden announced he was withdrawing from the race, a group called "win with black women" held an organizing call that was quickly flooded with support. 40,000 people logged on putting the online meeting at capacity while another 50,000 streamed the event from other platforms. now, tonight that same group, win with black women, is holding another major event for kamala harris this time with the help of one of her most powerful surrogates. >> let's all choose kamala

harris! tonight, just before we got on the air, tens of thousands of kamala harris supporters logged on including some very high profile supporters. >> there's brian cranston. hey, brian. >> hello, hello. >> chris rock is in the house. ben stiller, jennifer lopez, tracy ellis ross. julia roberts, where are you? and ms. meril streep is in the house. >> vice president kamala harris took questions from the audience

and oprah winfrey herself. >> it seems to us something happened to you the moment joe biden, president biden stepped aside and withdrew his candidacy, that a veil or something dropped and you just stepped into your power. >> you know, we each have those moments in our lives where it's time to step up, so i felt a great responsibility, and the incredible power of the people, right, who -- and i'm not the only leader in this. we're all leaders in this. this is so much bigger than me. >> the reason that events like this are so important is because black voters and in particular black women vote rrz the key to a potential future kamala harris victory. and here is how win with black women put it when talking about

how all this came together. >> what we knew was that it was a moment in our country to show what black women have always done. i just think that it is an honor for all of us to be able to usher in this moment knowing that those who watered this mighty field are now allowing us to eat of the fruit. >> for decades black women have been the backbone of the democratic coalition. their support helped propel joe biden to the democratic nomination in 2020 and then helped put him over the finish line in key swing states like georgia during the general election. but for most of this year, there have been warning signs the democratic support black voters was slipping. that all began to change when democrats switched their ticket. in the past two months kamala harris has seen an outpouring of support and enthusiasm and organizing from the black community. one notable example has been support from america's

historically black fraternities and sororitiess known as the divine nine. kamala harris herself is an alum nuof a divine nine sorority. and this year america's oldest black sorority created its first ever political action committee to get involved in this year's election while others have begun diverting resources in get out the vote efforts including launching new ads in swing states like pennsylvania, ones that are targeting black voters. >> a child born today, they have fewer rights than her mother and her grandmother. >> right now those hard earned rights are being threatened. >> the right to vote. >> the right to choose. >> even the right to learn our history. >> now it's up to us to stand up. >> organize and use our power, our right to vote. >> it only takes one person to change the world. imagine what we can do together. >> you can see this enthusiasm in the polling. a new howard university poll of

black voters in swing states finds kamala harris winning 82% of black voters in arizona, georgia, michigan, nevada, north carolina, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. donald trump, on the other hand, gets only 12% of black votes. harris' numbers are close to biden's share of the black vote in those same battleground states in the 2020 election suggesting harris has gained back most of the ground lost among black voters since then. most but not all. while this new polling shows vice president harris getting support from nearly every subgroup of black voters, there's one group proving harder to win over, young black men. when you look specifically at black men under 50 without college degrees, then support for trump rises to more than 1 in 4 black men. so that may be why kamala harris told the national association of

black journalists this week that she isn't taking black men and their votes for granted. >> i think it's very important to not operate from the assumption that black men are in anybody's pocket. black men are like any other voting group. you got to earn their vote. so i'm working to earn the vote, not assuming i'm going to have it because i am black but because the policies and the perspectives i have understands what we must do to recognize the needs of all communities. and i intend to be a president for all people. >> joining me now is melissa murray, the co-host of an upcoming special here on msnbc called black women in america. also co-host of an earlier nbc special called black men in

america, the road to 2024. melissa and charles, it's great to have two people on the road talking to black voters about the exact topics we're going to go into tonight. first let me start with your reaction to this oprah event i believe is just wrapping up. i understand the inclination to do an event with oprah. if oprah called me it wouldn't matter what it's about, i'd go do it with her. and certainly there's a lot of stars lined up in this event. i do wonder in ginning up enthusiasm where she most needs it, do you think oprah makes a difference. >> i'm going to say i think it's a real missed opportunity if oprah doesn't tell every woman in that crowd to look under their seat because you get a democracy, you get a democracy. missed opportunity. i don't know if she's going to play with young black men who are skeptical but there is support within the black

community and that could be important in translating to young black men like their mothers and grandmothers, everyone in the community behind this. maybe there's a reason for this and maybe i should investigate or interrogate why i'm not quite in line yet. >> can you expand on that, charles? is that the family dynamic, the matriarch coming together and saying you will vote. >> there's a number of black men i spoke to in the course of filming black men in america, the road to 2024, who expressed part of the issue they are having is the way people are talking to them about their vote as opposed to having conversations with them. a lot of black men have expressed feeling folks are talking at them and castigating them for having questions, for having apprehension, reservations, wanting to see some policy before they make a decision and commit. and so at the end of the day you're still talking about men.

there's a feeling in respects of hold on, who are you talking to like that? you can't sort of shame me to the polls. that's not an effective strategy. >> and you can see that in her response of the conference when she said, look, i don't take them for granted, i know i need to earn it. >> give me a reason why. and i think part of the problem with democratic messaging for some people has been you have been selling a vision of less last, meaning that i've survived donald trump one, and now you're telling me this is going to be worse. but at the same time you told me the same thing about george bush, told me the same thing about ronald reagan. i'm not saying it's valid. but if for example i'm a black man who's only seen the unemployment rate in this country be surpassed by native-american men and no other demographic selling the vision

of best last is not the best way to go. >> one of the things we saw talking to black women, it's not just black men who have questions. women of my age and older, they are saladly in that camp and they were even before the switch. we talked to women who said i will vote for joe biden's desiccated body if the comes to that. these younger women, they have question. and one of the things interesting to me they talked about questions of police brutality. the biden administration done a lot around, one of the most historic executive orders putting money into policing and police accountability. we don't really talk about that on the media because we spent it last year covering january 6th and trump's trials. >> police brutality, the appalling footage of police brutality continues to be generated independent of the biden administration. >> here's another part of it, and this came out very clearly and i think it's the same with black men. it occurred to me this is the generation of people who grew up

in schools after no child left behind. so they grew up in an educational system we're divested of music and pe and civics education. so they may not understand as clearly as people in the media and the law and what not, but the president has limited power over the 18 departments. that's a municipality and locality issue. part of this they want to see change, but they're looking to the president, and maybe that's not the person who's going to do this. we really have to think about in the way in which our electorate is being educated, what it means downstream because this isn't just about black men. i think we're going to see this further down the line with different groups. >> where you account for the educational divide that's where you're seeing the biggest cleave towards trump. the positive case for voting for harris, then there's also the case for voting for harris as an antidote to trump. i've got to wonder what you think of the rhetoric coming out -- directed at springfield, ohio.

i think we have the clip if we can play it for you guys so we can hear how she's framing it. >> ever since the debate we feel for our fellow citizens in springfield. do you not think about the citizens in springfield, ohio. the haitian families, nonhaitian families, everybody having to deal with this lie that has endangered the lives of haitian people and everybody who looks haitian. everybody in america feels for that. >> okay, the key part of that i think is everybody having to deal with this lie that has endangered the lives of haitian people and anybody who looks haitian. we had the chair of the local naacp chapter on yesterday, charles. and she was saying how her grandchildren can't go to school. she's worried about them. they're not haitian. they're black. and i've got to wonder one of the areas where kamala harris has the most ground on donald trump is immigration and the economy. talk about immigration for second, when you hear the

rhetoric around immigration, how he's vilifying people of color in the united states, they could be haitian, they could just be black, is that not a deterrent? do you think that matters in your experience and granted this is before any of this springfield stuff came up, but is that the kind of stuff going to penetrate, you know, young black men and their sort of -- like their information bubble? >> i think the notion of donald trump as someone who is a racist is not something that's new or far to young black male voters. i think with respect to what we're seeing in springfield and what we saw with those comments, it needs to be formed more broadly and under the umbrella of white nationalism. and the reason for that is racism is one lane. but when you're talking about white nationalism, now you invite xenophobia and a number of different isms into the picture with other people. it's not just a conversation black people or haitian people or people who are dark skinned

dominicans or dark skinned cubans need to be worried about. it is a conversation if you are not a wealthy, straight, white male you can be othered under this notion of white nationalism because it is a virus that spreads. and it is a virus that donald trump has no problem unleashing along with j.d. vance on the entire electorate. and so because of that, you have to expand the framing so that people understand this is not just a racial issue that extends to people who might appear to be haitian in some way. this is something that potentially has the ability to affect all of us who can be othered. >> the white nationalism frame i think also encompasses some of the issues that harris is actually good on, like abortion. one of the things that really hasn't been talked about enough is the way in which this anti-abortion rhetoric is also accompanied by replacement theory. like there's a reason why you want to stop women from terminating their pregnancy, certain women. and there's a reason why you're fine with certain women like amber therman, bleeding out in

parking lots. and so the worst effects of these abortion bans are going to be visited on poor women, women of color. we're seeing that. and it's now that it's also spreading to women who look like random suburban moms, and now it's becoming a real issue. but it's always been an issue for women of color, and she's made that really clear. i think joining it to this broader message about white nationalism makes the issue really salient and there's a real choice here. >> also aided by the fact there are neo-nazis marching inspringfield are and they're explicitly talking about the great replacement theory. so the data points are there, it's just people may be connecting them to the candidates. melissa murray, charles coleman, thank you for joining me tonight. really appreciate it. coming up trump lackey and sitting united states senator lindsey graham makes a secret trip to the state of nebraska to try and convince republicans to change the way the state awards

its electoral votes. i wonder who sent him? but first the republican candidate for governor of north carolina refers to himself as black nazi on a porn website called nude africa, and he has no intention of leaving the race. that's next. intention of leavi race that's next. draws away heat, relieves pressure and instantly adapts. sleep better. live purple. visit purple.com or a store near you today

the moment i met him i knew he was my soulmate. "soulmates." soulmate! [giggles] why do you need me? [laughs sarcastically] but then we switched to t-mobile 5g home internet. and now his attention is spent elsewhere. but i'm thinking of her the whole time. that's so much worse. why is that thing in bed with you? this is where it gets the best signal from the cell tower! i've tried everywhere else in the house! there's always a new excuse. well if we got xfinity you wouldn't have to mess around with the connection. therapy's tough, huh? -mmm. it's like a lot about me. [laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title.

and i quote, i am a black nazi, slavery is not bad, some people need to be slaves, i wish they would bring it -- slavery back. i would certainly buy a few. that is alleged commentary from mark robinson, the current

republican candidate for governor in the key swing state of north carolina and an ally of the republican nominee for president, donald trump. according to reporting from cnn today robinson under the user name mini soldier wrote these and plenty of other comments on a porn website called need africa between the years 2008 and 2012. while endorsing slavery and cosigning on nazisms would mark a new low for even mark robinson, he's no stranger to shocking hateful commentary on topics ranging from abortion to the holocaust to the lgbtq plus community. robinson today vehemently denied that he posted these comments and insists he will not exit the governor's race. >> this is not us. these are not our words, and this is not anything that is characteristic of me, nor has it ever been. >> how do you explain all the matching details on this profile, the profile on nude africa lists your full name as mark robinson. the e-mail listed on the account is an e-mail that you have used

elsewhere on the internet including with your photo. >> i'm not going to get into the minutia how someone might manufacture these salacious tabloid lies, but i can tell you this. there's been over $1 million spent on me through a.i. by a billionaire's son who's bound and determined to destroy me. >> joining me now is sam stein, managing editor at the bulwark and msnbc contributor. sam, it was all a.i. that did it. i just want to remind everybody at home these are posts from 2008 to 2012, which was really the pre-a.i. era. and mini soldier is also mark robinson's official handle on i believe pinterest, youtube, and twitter. what do you make of his excuse thus far? >> it's remarkable how advance a.i. has become it can serve 15-year-old internet postings. first of all, this whole thing is ridiculous.

i'm glad i can come on and talk about nude africa. obviously i'm not the expert on the subject matter. this is ridiculous. in a way it's kind of consulting to the constituents of north carolina, specifically the republican ones, that mark robinson believes that he can survive this. no one really thinks he's going to win the governor's race. but the idea this type of article would come up and he would not have introspection and say maybe i'm not the best person, really suggests that he thinks that the constituents of north carolina and the republican party primarily can be duped, can be suckered, can be told that, in fact, everything in front of them is not rule when it's generated by a.i. and they shouldn't believe the compelling evidence of sort of grotesque and sensitive statements of behavior. and so that's just the reality we live in these days, but i guess this is the sort of trump era politics, right, you just plow forward through the most salacious of scandals. >> yeah, well -- i think maybe

the most appalling part about it is his calculation might be right. i mean the north carolina republican party is standing by mark robinson, a man who as you point out is 8 points behind in this race, right? i'm not even saying it would be understandable if he was neck and neck, but the fact they have every reason to get this man out of the race and are choosing not to, tells you as much about the north carolina republican party as it does tell you about mark robinson. my question to you is do you think any of this rebounds to donald trump who's a mark robinson ally and he said the man he thinks he's better than martin luther king. i think you are martin luther king times two. i mean do you think the stechb of this scandal wafts over to donald trump or no? >> first of all, the fact trump compared robinson to martin luther king, we know he took that as an insult based on his internet history posting

insensitive things about martin luther king. so maybe that wasn't the best compliment to pay the guy. obviously it doesn't help. you want someone running for governor who can bring in people you are depending on. usually it's the top of the ticket that gives the benefits down ballot. in this case mark robinson would benefit from trump, but i talked to a couple of republicans from north carolina today for a piece we have on the bulwark, and they're like this is a huge distraction. he cannot go into the state and appear with mark robinson anymore. fee goes into the state he's going to be asked while he was so effusive of his praise of this guy. did they not vet him. of course if you're in north carolina with introspection you'll say is this the ticket, are these the elected officials i want to elevate? i don't know it's going to have a huge impact on donald trump but keep in mind this is the state harris' people have continuously said is their kind of, you know, main prize for flipping, more so almost than georgia. so this is already bound to be a very close state, and this does

not help in the slightest for trump. >> yeah, it's such a good point. i mean it makes north carolina like a sort of kryptonite for trump because if he goes there he's going to have to talk literally about the website nude africa and black nazism. it's like the words roll-off your tongue and it's hard to believe it. >> it's hard to understand what you're saying. >> just to be clear not my words, mark robinson's alleged words. i've got to ask -- put on your sher lock homes hat for a moment. the timing is interesting, is it not? this is the moment for mark robinson to stay on the ballot or have his name removed, and this is breaking right now. now, that is not to diminish the excellent k-file reporting that i know went into this, but does this smack a little bit of opposition research to you from the democratic candidate? >> so, no, not the -- i thought about this, too. i don't think democrats would be either -- first of all, andrew

kaczynski is an amazing reporter. this fits the incredible scoops he's done throughout his career. i did before i knew it was andrew, i did have this exact thought. and i was thinking, well, i talked to a couple of democrats in national politics close to the harris campaign, and they were all sort of despondent. they were like why is this coming out on september 19th? we need it out on october 19th. they wanted it much further. and then republicans, look, it's iptheory i guess if you're a republican you wanted robinson to leave, and this would be the time to do it. but the truth is this is way too late. even if he were to leave there'd be a huge swath of people -- first of all, he's going to fight it. he's fighting it. there's going to be a huge swath of the electorate who feels like you can't abandon these people, you have to fight any accusation in the main stream media. and the mere act of giving in is political defeat in and of itself. and so we're at this place where

republicans cannot quit races, where they cannot step aside because that would depress the base so much. >> i no matter how repellent the candidate is, you standby your man even when you have to say the words black nazi over and over again. sam stein, thank you for your reporting. thank you for your analysis. thank you for your time, my friend. thank you for saying nude africa. >> anytime. coming up why did lindsey graham make a secret trip to nebraska? it's like 2020 all over again. we'll get to that. but first, another day another round of polls, these ones showing kamala harris leading in key swing states. we're going to have more on that with democratic strategist baz shakir. that's next. c strategist baz shakir that's next.

kamala harris' performance at last week's debate is beginning to move the polls. we're now seeing slow but steady movement in the key states harris needs the win. in pennsylvania three recent polls show harris leading trump. she is up by three, up by 6, and up by 4 points, leads that are outside the margin of error in two of these polls. another very interesting data point comes from polling on how kamala harris' approval rating has changed in pennsylvania. "the new york times" today found harris' favorability in the state has risen to 51%, which is

up 9 points since the last survey in early july. joining me now is baz shakir, former campaign manager for bernie sanders 2020 presidential campaign. he's also the founder and executive director of "more perfect union." it's always great to hear from you, and i wonder as a campaign expert whether you can unpack the sort of -- the gulf that exists between people liking kamala harris, her favorability going up, but that not translating directly into a greater share of the vote. i mean, how do you explain people who are in significant numbers saying i like her but also not saying they can vote for her? >> she's newer to a lot of people, and, you know, she's coming onto the scene less defined around her policies. the upshot around that, alex, the room for growth for her is greater than donald trump's i think a majority of people in all the battleground states

around the country that trump isn't for him. he has to disparage a lot to vote third party or skip the presidential line. for kamala harris she's continuing to hopefully reach people on the number one thing that's on their mind and that is the economy particularly for the people who are going to come on late, and i think the narrative of what are her values are still -- they're probably the least defined for her, if you even listen to your first segment of young black voters, probably they know the least about her, know the least about her values. the opportunity is there for her, but she has to tell a story about what is it that animates you. why do you want government power so much? >> just to unpack that a little bit further, does that suggest that the undecided are basically -- the people saying they like kamala harris, they don't know if they can vote for her, it's really all about what harris says in the closing weeks of this campaign.

basically the onus is on her to close the sale. it's not reel about donald trump at this point because they already like kamala harris, which suggests they don't like donald trump, and they're not necessarily even considering him at this point. >> i think that's correct to the degree in how she talks about herself. it's not that she needs to tell more people that she lived a middle class life. i'm not arguing that, and she's done that well enough to this point. i think it's more about her reflecting that i know your life. i know the struggles you're going through, the pains that you're dealing with. i know the economic insecurity and lack of freedoms that you feel. i'm aware of all those things, and i can contrast that with a person who i know doesn't get your life and that's donald trump. and most people know vast majorities that donald trump stands for the wealthy, so you've got that working to your advantage. now, you've got to show you stand with the people and you know and understand their lives.

i don't think you're going to expect you're going to solve their problems immediately. the opportunity is ripe for her. you have boeing workers on strike. what are they striking about? 16 years i didn't get a pay raise, uaw workers. you've got dock workers about to go on strike. what is it? automation is taking our jobs. much has been said of the teamsters. a new days ago amazon workers in the queens said we want to organize because drivers being exploited. if you can access and talk about the conditions of the economy i think the opportunities for growth for her are huge. >> i will say the polling on her being a trusted steward of the economy is getting better and better and better. i believe she is caught up to trump and maybe even surpassed him on the question who do you trust most to handle the economy. i mean, do you owe that to harris just being out there more? do you credit that to argument

she was making, which is very much what you're talking about, looking to the camera and saying i'm fighting for you, he's fighting for himself during the presidential debate? i mean what do you attribute that to? >> one, the convention did a great job and you saw the choices how they were going to frame the structural successes of her record and particularly as a prosecutor. i have prosecuted and fought for working people like yourself and the choices of the types of people across the ideological spectrum to vouch for her. that's one. and two, if you look at the ads running. the number one ad i was looking at the other day is about corporate price gouging. i know that you are feeling hurt and pain. i have a plan about going after corporations that are jacking up prices on you. i'm going to go after corporate or private, or landlords. i'm going to reduce the cost, and that's doing a lot of work for her to introduce her policy agenda as well. >> faiz, does she need to do

more media? and guess part of the frustration on the part of a lot of democrats is, "a," donald trump has no plan except tax cuts that would raise tariffs all over the country, and yet harris is being told she needs to put more meat on the bone and they need to see more. where does she need to display that? you talk about the striking workers, and even if she went to march on a picket line as she has, would that make the difference? i guess the question is how do you get the information out at this point? is it sit down interviews ini mean she just an event with oprah winfrey online. >> i'm not going to argue against her doing more media. i think she's good at it. i trust the principle on her, and i think she'd do great in those settings. but even if you weren't going to do more media events, i think it's getting her into more

settings and where she's interacting with more people and you're getting a flavor of values better showcased than at a rally and off a teleprompter. i think seeing her humanity, seeing her values, seeing how she expresses the ability to connect with people and understand the lives they're going through, that to me is much more vital, and you can do that in a lot of different settings and a town hall or just going and interacting with regular workers in different settings. i can imagine that you could get creative with this, and you can also get creative on the platforms of tiktok, however you would put those things together. that to me is much more critical, and the media interviews can solve that as well. but i would focus more on making sure she's being able to connect with real people and documenting and showing that in animated and interesting ways. >> in the world of americans. >> yes, with the people. >> a welt of information. thank you for joining me tonight, my friend. >> thank you, alex.

still to come, republican senator lindsey graham of south carolina turned up in the state of nebraska yesterday on a quest that if it works could hand the electoral college to donald trump. we will explain coming up next. trump. we will explain coming up next most people call leaffilter when their gutters are clogged and they notice one of the many issues that can bring. sometimes it's the smell of mildew when water has seeped into the interior walls. or maybe they've spotted mold in the attic. but most often it's the more obvious signs of damage like rotten soffit, fascia, or water pooling near their foundation. you can get ahead of costly damage by protecting your home's gutters today. we're in your neighborhood and ready to help. schedule your free gutter inspection today, call 833 leaffilter, or visit leaffilter.com

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to the governor's mansion now where 1011 was the only

media outlet posted up outside as state lawmakers along with south carolina senator lindsey graham came together for a conversation regarding winner take all in that closed door meeting. we're told graham was trying to drum up support to change the way nebraska hands out its electoral college votes. >> hold up. when was a republican senator from south carolina doing in nebraska yesterday? missing votes in the u.s. senate to speak with the nebraska state legislature about how their state allocates its electoral college votes. well, to understand you have to zoom out a little bit. almost every state in the country uses a winner takes all system to distribute its electoral votes. if you win california, you get all of california's electoral votes. if you're in texas, you get all of texas' electoral votes. the two exceptions to that are the states of maine and nebraska. they split their electoral votes. for example, in 2020, donald trump won most of nebraska, but

joe biden still walked away with one electoral vote from the state. and joe biden won most of maine, but donald trump still got one of that state's electoral votes. cut to 2024, and this election is so close -- it is so close that those single electoral votes could be the margin that decides the whole race. >> if she were to hold those three states -- wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania -- there you go, you see it. she's at exactly 270 votes. >> okay, now, maine is a reliably blue state and nebraska is a reliably red state, so historically the two states have balanced each other out. you get one from here, you get one from here. but it seems like south carolina senator lindsey graham wants to change that. he wants the red state of nebraska to become winner take

all. and if he gets what he wants, then donald trump would have an edge, an edge that would come too late for the state of maine to do anything about. for the state of maine, for example, to change the way it allocates its electoral votes and make that winner take all. why is it too late? it is too late because yesterday was not just any random wednesday. yesterday was 90 days until december 17th, which is the day that all of maine's electors cast their electoral votes. that is when maine's electoral college votes is actually locked in. and in maine a bill only becomes a law 90 days after its passed unless the bill gets a two thirds vote in both chambers and democrats in the state don't have the votes to do that. so they have to abide by this deadline, 90 days. so if mainers want to make any changes to their electoral vote allocation, they have to do so by yesterday, which is 90 days until december 17th, the day

they certify those electoral votes. so lindsey graham and his republican friends in nebraska are essentially trying to pull a fast one here -- to change the rules of the electoral count in nebraska in a way that will benefit trump. and to do so just late enough that democrats in maine can't respond by leveling the playing field. if this is all ringing a faint and distant bell to you it might be because of what lindsey graham did in the year of 2020. before donald trump's infamous call telling georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger to find him 12,000 votes to flip the results of the election, before that it was south carolina senator lindsey graham calling up the georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger, pressuring him to toss certain mail-in ballots that would give donald trump an edge. now, brad raffensperger did not bend to either attempts, but

there's a pattern here. am i right? republican senator lindsey graham traveling the country, trying to make our elections less democratic. lindsey graham knows it is almost without question that vice president harris will win the popular vote in november, and he knows that despite all of the advantages the electoral college gives donald trump, that this race could very well be decided by just a handful of electoral college votes. but rather than trying to actually convince people why they should vote for donald trump, lindsey graham is trying to disenfranchise them. >> what was your argument, though, about the idea of having nebraska be a winner takes all state? >> i think you -- nebraska should not be the state that gives her the presidency. >> mark leibovich joins me to discuss all of that coming up next. ibovich joins me to discuss all of that coming up next

i went and talked to some senators and the governor.

senator richardson, the governor, asked me to come out and talk about the caucus, i guess that's what you call it, about the state of the world and the consequences of the next election on foreign policy front. >> that was senator lindsey graham, republican of south carolina this morning after a quick hop to the midwest yesterday to drum up support for a vote that would prevent the state of nebraska from awarding one of its five electoral college votes to kamala harris. joining me now is mark leibovich, staff writer at the atlantic whose latest piece is called hypocrisy, spinelessness, and the trim of donald trump. okay, timely piece here, mark. first of all, lindsey graham saying he just went to nebraska to talk foreign policy. like why bother at this point? >> i mean who among us hasn't, right? if we know one thing about lindsey graham he's a student of nebraska and history and the legislative constitution of maine and what have you.

no, it's bizarre. you covered the kirkiness of it, which could obviously have a huge impact on this election. the personal aspect of lindsey graham it almost seems to fall on some errand boy kind of chore he does whether it's down in georgia or nebraska like today. if you look at this, his bearing in that interview you just showed in the clip, he just seems kind of defeated or confused or tired. he almost doesn't know what -- it's not like a larger principle is guiding him or anything. it's like this adhesive to the objective donald trump, wherever he sends him. i hate to use the word of the day, but it's just weird. >> you know lindsey graham of washington. it is just stunning to see the man who once called trump a race

baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot then did his bidding in the 2020 election to try to subvert democratic votes and is now doing this to try to change the way a state in the midwest allocates its electoral college. the shamelessness is staggering and goes right to the piece you have in the atlantic where you talk about the way in which trump rolls over weaklings or aims to rollover politicians who trump considers sacks and weeklings. i wonder now about the few holdouts in the state of nebraska who are almost certainly going to get calls from donald trump, those republicans in the state legislature who are standing between him and maybe one more electoral college vote. >> yeah, i'd be surprised if they haven't already. when you get right down to it, we're talking about a few votes. there are some steadfast republicans apparently not committed to voting for this. it's the old-fashioned arm

twisting lobbying from nationally known politicians like lindsey graham and certainly donald trump, you know, might be susceptible to this kind of thing. again, if i'm like a citizen of south carolina, i'm thinking what is my senator doing here? put all the quaintness of that aside, it's just a strange role he continues to take on for himself. and look, if there's one thing we've seen about donald trump is he can seize on the weakness of individual politicians that he feels he can rollover, and in this case entire political parties from which lindsey graham at one point had a lot of principles and had a lot -- was seen as an honest broker in these things, has been completely turned into a big pile of jell-o on these things. >> i do wonder, though, you can see this coming from a mile away given all the chicanery in around and the 2020 election. does it surprise you democrats have not been lobbying maine for their winner takes all.

it seems to be no plan on the left. >> i think when you get right down to it this is all legal, right? i mean states that control legislatures and parties that control legislatures can change laws, can change constitutions. certainly a separate group of people would have credited them for being savvy on this. maybe this could have a massive difference in the course and trajectory of the nation's future, but hopefully -- you know, hopefully it's just going to be a sideshow that we'll never speak of again. >> yeah. if we are talking about this on november 6, 7, 8 and 9th, it is not good for the country. >> as fun as this is. >> as fun as it is. mark leibovich with the atlantic, thank you, my friend, for your time tonight. that is our show for this evening. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. knowing what is at stake in terms of fundamental