that does it for us, i am ali velshi. you can watch my show at 10:00 p.m. eastern. this week, i explored two additions to the american literary academy by jamie alvarez. you can scan the qr code on your screen to listen to the third episode for free. on that note, i wish you good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks at msnbc news, thanks for staying up late. i'll see you this weekend. s we. re. you're lucky if you forget. n i'm craig melvin, and thi is "dateline."

caller (on clip): my wife and my son, they're both shot. miles tucker: nichole had been shot in the back of the head. taylor had been shot in the face. this is a murder-suicide. detective: do you think taylor shot himself? no. i waited and waited and waited for somebody to be arrested for this. detective: did you have anything to do with this? did you have anything to do with killing your wife? you got to be out of your mind. jason payne (on recording): you have three tapes. i want you to tear those up. faye payne (on recording): i can do that. i thought, they're going to come kill us. niece (on recording): so to threaten the lady, you know, you need to do this, or we're going to hurt your child. faye payne (on recording): yes, yes. remington payne: they said that i was so young that i couldn't have remembered anything. something like that doesn't go away. i saw what i saw. [no audio] hello, and welcome to "dateline." when jason and nichole payne first met,

the attraction was instant. soon, the bachelor and single mother of two wed, and their family grew. then, gunfire turned their home into a bloody crime scene. the killer's identity would take years to uncover and rip this once loving family apart. here's andrea canning with "house of horrors." andrea canning: the white dove, a symbol of peace and love. one woman was so moved by their grace and beauty, she turned her passion for doves into a business, releasing them at weddings and funerals. nichole payne brought both joy and comfort to countless families. when i see pictures and when i hear stories of my mom, she's just this wonderful person, like this huge smile all the time, great personality. andrea canning: but on a december morning in 2007, nichole's doves made their most poignant flight of all--

at her own funeral. [indistinct conversation] now, 14 years later, two of nichole's children, jackson and remington payne, are telling their story publicly for the first time. i just wanted to be able to put my two cents in. and, you know, all stories have two sides. people don't know that there was somebody who saw everything that happened. i saw it happen. and i want people to know what happened. andrea canning: it happened here, the payne family home. left abandoned, it would take almost a decade to resolve the horrible tragedy that happened inside these walls. a place where blind family loyalty would cause even more heartache. a christmas tree was left standing as a reminder of the shattered lives of all those who lived here.

the two-story house in quitman, texas, was supposed to be nichole's dream home, the place where she and her husband jason would raise their blended family. but that all changed on december 11, 2007. their son jackson was almost six at the time. that morning, i remember waking up for school like a regular day. my father put me in the truck, and we left for school. and, you know, he dropped me off. andrea canning: remington, who was two at the time, was also in the truck. normally, her 16-year-old half-brother taylor would be too. but he stayed home from school that day. after jason returned with his daughter, he said he found a "house of horrors." 911 operator (on clip): 911, what's your emergency? jason payne (on clip): my wife and my son, they're both shot. 911 operator (on clip): say again, sir? jason payne (on clip): my wife and my son are both shot. i need some help. 911 operator (on clip): hold on. just stay on the line with me a minute. jason payne (on clip): i have to take my little girl outside. lieutenant miles tucker of the wood county sheriff's office

rushed to the call. miles tucker: i arrive at the house. i start pulling up the driveway. i see jason payne. he's holding his daughter. andrea canning: remington was in jason's arms as first responders flooded the scene and entered the home. you get in there, and what's the first thing you see? the christmas tree and the tv on, on cartoons. andrea canning: leah courtney was an emt with the east texas medical center. leah courtney: they let me know to go into the bedroom right past the tv. so you rush in there. what do you see once you get inside the bedroom? i at first thought that there was a woman sleeping in bed. i look around, and then i notice that there has been a shooting. you just-- you just saw the scene and knew that it was bad. andrea canning: the woman was nichole. leah noticed her body felt warm, but immediately knew she couldn't save her.

at 35 years old, nichole payne was dead. this wasn't the only shooting in this house. no, there was also another shooting in the other part of the house. there's an opening into the garage. andrea canning: the garage had been converted into a bedroom. i see a young man laying back on his bed, and he's blue. and as cold as his body was, i knew that there was no helping him either. andrea canning: nichole's son taylor was dead too. lieutenant tucker, who went back to the crime scene with us, had two bodies to contend with. miles tucker: nichole had been shot in the back of the head. and it appeared that taylor had been shot in the face. andrea canning: there was no evidence of forced entry, no signs of a struggle indicating a home invasion. but lieutenant tucker did see the possible murder weapon in taylor's room. there was a rifle there between his legs.

he was on his own bed. andrea canning: back outside, the detective could see jason looked understandably distraught. he was just kind of, i would say, maybe in a zone. that's about the best way i can describe it. it's possible jason was in shock. andrea canning: but soon, everyone would be in shock when one of tucker's top investigators said he knew who was behind the killings at the payne house. craig melvin: coming up, life had once seemed so full of promise for the young couple. they're happy. they did almost everything together. just a typical marriage. was he head over heels for nichole? oh, yes, big time. i was worried about it only because it was so fast. but they were in love? they were very much in love. he was crazy about nichole. craig melvin: now two lives lost and children left to mourn. because i was so young when everything happened, i never really went through the process of, oh, i lost my mom and my brother.

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andrea canning: the house tucked away in the woods of quitman, texas, nichole's dream home, was now a crime scene. and investigators wanted to know more about the family

who lived here. they learned nichole had been married before. taylor was her son from her first marriage. and she had another son, daniel, a boy nichole adopted out of foster care. how did that feel? you've bounced from home to home. and then here comes nichole who wants to claim you as her own. it was overwhelming, because honestly, for the longest time, i didn't think it was happening. andrea canning: nichole was 28 when she stopped at a gas station and asked a handsome 31-year-old from louisiana for directions. soon after that chance encounter, jason and nichole became smitten. faye payne is jason's mother. was he head over heels for nichole? oh, yes, big time. i was worried about it only because it was so fast. but they were in love? they were very much in love. he was crazy about nichole. andrea canning: they had a whirlwind relationship. within weeks of meeting, they were married by a local justice of the peace. and daniel was there.

they're like, ok, we're a family, let's do this. and i was just like, all right. so it was nice. i could be like, mom, dad. and they were just like, yeah, you're our son. i'm like, all right. this is the first time in your life that you've had really the complete solid family. yes, yes. andrea canning: nichole's mom, sherry hawthorne, says they tied the knot before she and her husband even knew they were dating. she brought him home to meet us and just came in, you know, into our kitchen and said, mom, dad, you know, meet my husband. oh, my gosh. what did you think? well, it was just total shock. andrea canning: the couple went on to have jackson, then remington, making them a blended family. and there was one more person living with them, faye, jason's mom. the two had an especially tight relationship. so she moved in, at least temporarily. faye payne: i got along great with nichole. when i moved over there, we just clicked. andrea canning: when the couple first married, they struggled to make ends meet.

but after jason received a $900,000 settlement from a serious car accident, things turned around. after lawyers' fees, they bought cars, a boat, and the quitman house. how did life seem at the new house? a lot better. she wanted this type of house, and she looked for it. and then she found it, and she's like, this is it. and he made it happen. they were happy. they did almost everything together. and they were just a typical marriage. andrea canning: now everyone was trying to make sense of what happened that awful december morning. jackson remembers being at school in kindergarten. jackson payne: i do remember i was taken out of class, which was really weird for me at the time, especially when i saw the man who was picking me up. it wasn't my father. i'd never been picked up by anybody other than my dad. andrea canning: it was an officer. and soon, jackson and remington learned the devastating news about their mom and half-brother taylor. because i was so young when everything happened,

i never really went through the process of, oh, i lost my mom and my brother. it didn't click until i was a lot older. and, like, just a couple of years ago, it was when i finally went through knowing what that meant. andrea canning: for nichole's mom, the news was too much to bear. and when you hear nichole and taylor, your daughter and your grandson? well, it's your worst fear. it's your worst fear come true. and i-- i told myself, you know, right now, right at this moment, i have to choose life. i have to make a decision. and i did. i have to choose to live. andrea canning: funerals were held for nichole and then taylor. at the close of each service, her white doves were released into the sky. daniel, who by then was living on his own, says when he returned home, he found his father an emotional wreck.

so him and i both walked outside, and then he-- we just both started crying. he didn't cry at his own dad's funeral. but this guy fell to his knees and cried. and he's a grown man, and that was the first time i had ever seen him cry. andrea canning: daniel struggled himself. he cherished his mother and taylor. after all, the two boys had shared a bedroom for nine years. tell us about taylor. what was he like? daniel payne: he was a really cool kid. i mean, he was a little eccentric. but he was-- overall, he was a nice guy. you said he was eccentric. why would you describe him that way? i just-- i don't know. it's hard for me to describe. the people that you meet, like, this guy, he's nice, just slightly weird. i don't know how else to describe that. andrea canning: he and taylor liked to play video games together. and there was something else they bonded over. jason taught the boys how to fire a gun. you both became experienced with guns? yes, experienced enough to where they would trust us, to where if we walked out the house with a gun

to go shoot it, we had access to it. andrea canning: that included access to the rifle found near taylor's body. lieutenant tucker wanted to know more about it, and of course, the rest of the crime scene. so he decided to call in an experienced crime scene investigator from a larger sheriff's office in the next county. noel martin was probably the most knowledgeable guy in the area with crime scene stuff, that i knew of anyway. andrea canning: after evaluating the scene and later doing testing, noel martin thought it was quite clear what happened inside that house. he is 100% sure that it's a murder-suicide. noel said at that point that he believed that taylor had shot his mother and then shot himself. andrea canning: was it possible taylor, the shy kid who liked to play video games, had killed his own mother and then himself? it seemed like case closed. but lieutenant tucker wasn't so sure.

the lieutenant isn't ready to let the case go. but the payne children are trying to move on. coming up. when i'd see him, i'd feel safe and like everything was ok. i mean, clearly, everything was not ok. my mother was gone. and he was just my favorite person in the world. craig melvin: jason payne gets defensive. miles tucker: did you have anything to do with killing your wife? you got to be out of your mind to think that i would have anything to do with this. and i resent that you ask these questions like i am sitting here had something to do with it. i'm sitting here trying to be as helpful as i can. craig melvin: when "dateline" continues. inez, let me ask you, you're using head & shoulders, right? only when i see flakes. then i switch back to my regular shampoo. you should use it every wash, otherwise the flakes will come back. he's right, you know.

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for free help, andrea canning: the same day nichole and taylor were killed, police asked jason to come down to the station. he was the one who found the bodies, and lieutenant tucker had questions. miles tucker: jason, my name is miles tucker. this is ranger philip kemp, texas department of public safety. andrea canning: jason told investigators what happened that morning back at his house. he said his wife was sick in bed. so he got remington and jackson dressed. taylor, he said, was throwing a teen temper tantrum over not having his own cell phone. just kind of ranting and said

he wasn't going to school. philip kemp: why didn't he want to go to school? i think he was mad over the cell phone. andrea canning: jason said his stepson refused to leave the house. so he packed the younger kids into the car and drove off to school. when he returned, he said he made the awful discovery. miles tucker: because, i mean, you going in, seeing what you saw, what do you think happened? i don't know what to think. philip kemp: did he go out and touch-- what about taylor? no. philip kemp: why not? i don't know. andrea canning: the lieutenant asked about jason's relationship with taylor. yeah, it's good. he's the average teenager, i would guess, maybe introverted or closed. philip kemp: what about taylor and your wife?

just a normal, i mean, teenage argument. i mean, cell phone, computer, you know, driving. andrea canning: nothing jason said about taylor explained the outburst of violence that morning. but the obvious painful question had to be asked. miles tucker: when you saw that this morning, do you think taylor shot himself? (sobbing) no, no. miles tucker: because, jason, if that's what happened, then that's going to mean that there's a possibility that he also shot your wife. and i don't know an easy way to say that. jason, at least help us understand what might have led up to it. give us some kind of-- i don't know. it's nothing-- nothing out of the ordinary. i don't know. miles tucker: nothing out of the ordinary?

everything-- nothing. nothing, nothing. i don't know what happened. i just don't know. andrea canning: but something wasn't adding up for lieutenant tucker. when he first made his way into nichole's room, he noted, just like the emts, that nichole's body felt warm. she obviously had not been there very long. when we made our way back into taylor's room, taylor was just the opposite. he was very cold to the touch. andrea canning: the way it looked to lieutenant tucker, taylor died much earlier than nichole did. if he was right, taylor couldn't have killed his mother. and then there was a mysterious piece of evidence found outside the house on the day of the killings. miles tucker: one of the investigators located a rag with blood on it inside jason's truck. and it was very bright red. so that-- that signaled to the investigators

that that was fresh blood. andrea canning: back in the interview room, investigators pressed jason about his relationship with nichole. philip kemp: you and your wife real close? yeah, pretty close. philip kemp: do you consider her your best friend? yeah. i mean, we had a falling outs, but yeah. philip kemp: when was the last one? yesterday, day before. philip kemp: what was it about? i ain't-- nothing-- nothing-- nothing. i mean, little stuff, nothing. andrea canning: after talking for about 90 minutes, jason said he was tired and wanted to go home. that's when lieutenant tucker straight up asked him. miles tucker: jason, did you have anything to do with this? did you have anything to do with killing your wife? you got to be out of your mind to think that i would have anything to do with this. and i resent that you ask these questions like i am sitting here had something to do with it. i'm sitting here trying to be as helpful as i can.

andrea canning: jason was free to leave. his two children, jackson and remington, so young at the time, leaned on their grandparents, nichole's mom and dad, and jason's mom faye for emotional support. and they looked more than ever to their dad for security and love. you know, when i'd see him, i'd feel safe and like everything was ok. i mean, clearly, everything was not ok. my mother was gone. remington payne: i was so attached to him. like, i-- he was just my favorite person in the world. andrea canning: the investigation dragged on. and as the weeks turned into months, lieutenant tucker patiently waited for test results from the crime scene evidence. in the meantime, secrets about this once happy family were about to come to light. craig melvin: coming up. his bank account had gone down to virtually nothing. craig melvin: money troubles, marriage troubles. she wasn't happy that last couple of years. and there were just signs that-- that something wasn't right.

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i'm jessica layton with the hour's top stories. israel launched a rare airstrike in beirut, killing at least 14 people, including a top commander of hezbollah, believed to play a role in the 1983 bombing of the u.s. embassy and marine corps barracks. this attack follows two days of terror from exploding pages and walkie- talkies issued to members of hezbollah. here in the u.s., in-person early voting has begun in south dakota, virginia, and minnesota. the home state of vice presidential candidate tim walz . the first date in some voting centers was higher than back in 2020. and now back to "dateline."

i'm craig melvin. jason payne told police he found his wife nichole and stepson taylor shot dead. one investigator believed it was a murder-suicide. but lieutenant tucker thought they were both murdered. and jason's story about that morning left him with nagging questions. now dna test results were about to provide detectives with at least one answer. back to andrea canning with "house of horrors." andrea canning: as the investigation continued, new and significant facts started to emerge. for one, while things looked picture perfect from the outside, nichole's mom privately knew her daughter had a troubled marriage. she wasn't happy that last couple of years. and there were just signs that-- that something wasn't right. what were the signs? he was controlling. he was very controlling.

and it just seemed to get worse and worse as time went on. andrea canning: then, nine months after the deaths, the lab results came back from the rag found in jason's truck. the blood on the cloth was nichole's. that and how one body was cold while the other was warm closed the deal for lieutenant tucker. he was now convinced that jason was the real killer and had staged the scene to look like a murder-suicide. we decided that we had enough to write a warrant for jason and to arrest him. andrea canning: unaware of the warrant, jason was driving to a local park with his mom for a family outing. police were waiting. they got me out of the car. they made-- made me lay down. how shocking was that? you're at the park to see your grandchildren, and your son gets arrested for double murder. yeah, and we were both laying down on the ground. that was bad. that was-- i cried there.

i cried all the way home. andrea canning: it was yet another loss for jackson and remington. remington payne: when he was first arrested, i was in shock. to me, there was no-- nothing in my mind that would have made me think that it was him. andrea canning: daniel believed it was impossible that the man who had embraced him as his own could have been involved with the murders. i was like, yeah, there's no way. there's no way. jason was very much emotionally distraught from all this. and i think it bothered him even more that everybody started to think that he would even do it. andrea canning: jason pleaded not guilty to charges of capital murder. facing life in prison, his case went to trial in january of 2010, a little over two years after that december morning. jason payne committed this murder beyond a reasonable doubt. andrea canning: thomas cloudt is a texas assistant attorney general. while he wasn't involved in the trial, he knows the facts of the case. he says, besides taylor's body being cold to the touch,

first responders said they smelled gunpowder when they arrived in nichole's bedroom. based on the odor of a recently fired firearm in nichole's room and the emts' evaluation, it's apparent that taylor was killed first at some time significantly before nichole was killed. andrea canning: but the question remained-- why? there were several possible motives. the defendant was running out of cash. his bank account had gone down to virtually nothing. andrea canning: prosecutors say the paynes were broke, and jason may have been after nichole's $100,000 life insurance policy. jurors were shown financial statements, and it appeared the couple burned through that big cash settlement from jason's car accident. within just nine months, one of the paynes' accounts went from over $300,000 to a negative balance. not only that, a key witness, nichole's sister-in-law,

sarah hawthorne, told the jury nichole was threatening to leave jason. did she confide in you that she wanted a divorce? yes. she said that he wanted to burn the house down with her in it because she wanted to leave. andrea canning: but prosecutors believed their real ace in the hole was that rag. first responders testified how the blood appeared fresh, implying jason had just used it in the crime. but jason's defense attorney, doug parks, said the state had a big problem with its case. doug parks: there's no physical evidence on jason or around jason that connected him to the shooting. the implication would be if he did it, he did it in such a way to eliminate any blood on him, any blood on his clothes, any gunshot residue on him. the deputies, the emts, they say that they smelled gunpowder in nichole's room. now, if taylor shot nichole, wouldn't there have been that smell in his room too since he would have had to die after her?

no, not necessarily, because the environment was totally different. nichole was killed inside the house in a insulated room. and he was shot in the garage with one wall was just a metal door. you could see outside in parts of it. andrea canning: as for that rag, parks told the jury it wasn't fresh blood. and there was a simple explanation as to why it was in jason's truck. two months before her death, nichole got a fishing hook stuck in her neck. and parks says she used the rag to stop the bleeding. did you feel that was a very plausible reason for why that blood was on that rag? yes, it was consistent with her having held the rag against a bleeding-- small bleeding wound. no one ever disputed that. and there's no explanation of how that would have gotten on that rag from this crime scene. andrea canning: after a six-day trial, the case went to the jury. a little over four hours later, there was a verdict--

guilty. nichole's mom thought justice was served and was especially relieved her grandson's name was finally cleared. it was just heartbreaking to think that not only did a monster take taylor's life at 16 years old, but he also was trying to take his whole reputation and brand him as a murderer. andrea canning: faye, the ever devoted mother of jason, was defiant. you're standing there in that courtroom, and you hear guilty. how are you feeling? i'm feeling horrible. i was making eye contact with jason because he was just in shock. so i kept my eyes on jason to tell him, we're going to fight this, jason, we're going to fight it. andrea canning: in january of 2010, jason payne was sentenced to life without the chance of parole. but that wasn't nearly the end of this case. over the next six years, there were going to be a number of headturning surprises.

just how far would a mother's love go? craig melvin: coming up, jason payne has a mission for mom. jason payne (on recording): i want you to just tear those up. faye payne (on recording): you don't want them anymore? ok. i can do that. jason payne (on recording): like, pull the insides out and then throw them on the leaves, just burn them or something. faye payne (on recording): ok, i can do that. craig melvin: when "dateline" continues. mopping is hard work, but then i tried the swiffer powermop. it has a built-in solution that breaks down dirt on contact. plus, it's 360-degree swivel head cleans up along baseboards and even behind the toilet. bye, bye bucket. with the swiffer powermop. with dexcom g7,

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the most accurate cgm. andrea canning: remington and jackson had lost so much, first their mother and brother and then their father, who was sentenced to life in prison. their grandparents, nichole's mom and dad,

were now raising them. our papa, he's no longer with us. but both of them were so amazing. and, like, my grandmother still is so amazing. i'm so thankful for her. and i know i joke with her sometimes saying that, but i really, really mean it. she's, like, the world to me. andrea canning: meanwhile, for six years, their father had been telling anyone who would listen he had nothing to do with the murders of his wife and stepson. that's the reason i knew it was ok-- andrea canning: his mother faye never wavered in her belief that he was innocent. is it like a dark cloud hanging over your head every day knowing your son is behind bars? it's in my mind every day. i do fine during the day. (voice breaking) but at night. i just wish they knew jay. andrea canning: then in 2013 came the news jason's mother had been praying for. an appeals court ruled some testimony was hearsay, including what the sister-in-law said about jason wanting to burn the house

down with nichole inside, and that prejudiced the jury. so in march of 2016, jason faced his second jury. are you trying to get everything you can for this second trial? yes, we want evidence. evidence tells you the truth. andrea canning: thomas cloudt would prosecute this time. and while most of this trial would be similar to the first, cloudt said he did have some powerful new evidence-- recordings of prison phone calls between jason and his mom. in one call, jason asked faye about some videotapes stored at her house. jason payne (on recording): now, you have three tapes. there's two that had nothing to do with anything, and then there was one that was me and nichole. andrea canning: jason didn't say what was on those videotapes. but jurors heard him instructing his mom to destroy them. jason payne (on recording): i want you to just tear those up. faye payne (on recording): you don't want them anymore? ok, i can do that. jason payne (on recording): like, pull the insides out and then throw them on the leaves,

just burn them or something. faye payne (on recording): ok, i can do that. do you know what was on them? no, no, i never heard them. but these are important tapes because he's talking about burning the tapes. now, see, i don't remember him saying that. but i'm not saying he didn't. i don't remember that. i didn't ever burn anything. because here's the odd thing about that. i was trying to do everything jason wanted me to do. i never found the tape jason was talking about. andrea canning: prosecutors weren't able to find the tapes either. but they say it didn't matter. they wanted to leave jurors with the impression jason was trying to destroy evidence. whatever was on those tapes was obviously something that the defendant did not want anyone to know about. andrea canning: and there was something else introduced at this trial-- a new witness. remember leah courtney, the emt? she didn't testify at the first trial. but at this one, she gave key testimony about the body temperatures and something else-- the look on jason's face when deputies found

that bloody rag in his truck. it's the way jason was acting. my heart stopped, and i thought, he has-- he had something to do with this. really? you just had a feeling? i did. and, you know, i'm not an officer. i'm not a police officer. it's just reading a person, just reading the way he acted. i mean, he was white. andrea canning: the prosecution made a compelling case once again. but the defense said it, too, had some significant new evidence. i had a lot stronger case from the science standpoint the second time than the first time. i told the jury this case was about the science. the science would show that our client was innocent. andrea canning: surprisingly, the rifle that was allegedly used in the killings had never been tested for dna. this time around, it was. and the results showed jason's dna wasn't on the rifle, only taylor's was. and that proves that this is a murder-suicide.

andrea canning: and he pointed out that the prosecution was relying on opinions, not science, when it came to how cold or warm the bodies were. did any of the deputies take the temperature of the bodies? no. did you feel like those tests should have been done? certainly, if they were going to rely on that as evidence to try to convict someone of capital murder, they should have done it. andrea canning: and the defense called perhaps its most important witness to testify-- the experienced crime scene investigator from the neighboring sheriff's office, noel martin. what was his conclusion? murder-suicide. did he have any doubt? absolutely none. and he is an employee-- of the smith county sheriff's department. but he actually testified for you? yes. that's got to be extremely rare, i would imagine. he's never done it, as far as i understand, in any other case but this one. andrea canning: the second jury was about to get the case, and afterward,

a surprising new arrest. craig melvin: coming up. faye payne (on recording): so he's come up with the only way he can get out. i thought, they're going to come kill us. craig melvin: jason payne has a crazy new plan only a mother could love. this mother-son relationship is just bizarre. yes, ma'am, it is. faye is jason's puppet. miss faye will do whatever jason asks her to do. craig melvin: when "dateline" continues. my mental health was better. but uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia, started disrupting my day. td felt embarrassing. i felt like disconnecting. i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds.

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[announcer]: you can quit. welcome back. after serving six years behind bars for the murders of his wife nichole and stepson taylor, jason payne hoped a new trial would set him free. a verdict was coming. but this story was far from over. police were about to uncover a diabolical scheme that threatened to put even more lives in danger. here's andrea canning with the conclusion of "house of horrors." andrea canning: quitman, texas. jason payne's second trial went to the jury, and the result was the same-- guilty again. daniel believed his father was innocent. what would you say to those people who truly believe jason payne is a killer? it's wrong.

it's not-- it's not the truth at all. andrea canning: but in a split within the family, jackson eventually came to a different, painful, and stark conclusion. i was very relieved when he was convicted a second time. brought a lot of weight off my chest knowing that my father, who is a murderer, is not going to be on the loose. andrea canning: remington feels the same way. she says even though she was two years old, she has vivid impressions from the day her mother and brother were murdered. she didn't want to go into details, as she still feels traumatized. they said that i was so young that i couldn't have remembered anything and it'd be true. and all i could think is like, something like that doesn't go away. the smell of the blood is one thing. it's still there. i think you're lucky if you forget everything. i'd rather have forgotten everything. andrea canning: in march 2016, jason payne

was sentenced to life in prison without the chance of parole. now, this is where our stories typically end. but not this one. remember nichole had a $100,000 life insurance policy? jason never cashed it in. but guess who did. you said that he never made any claims on the life insurance money? no, he never did. where did that money go? ok, when he got convicted, i was the second beneficiary on the policy. so that's when it came to me. andrea canning: all $100,000 went to faye. she says she gave some of the money to daniel. remington and jackson got nothing. but there was more. and you also got the house? yes. andrea canning: that's right. after jason's conviction, the house in quitman, worth around $200,000, went to his mother. but after a few years, faye couldn't pay the taxes on it and lost it. it then sat abandoned for years. do you see a future with a third trial for jason?

i see-- yeah. andrea canning: and evidently, this mother was willing to do almost anything to get that third trial. that's because after his second conviction, jason and faye were caught in a devious scheme. this mother-son relationship is just bizarre. yes, ma'am, it is. andrea canning: back in 2016, kyle henson was an investigator with the wood county sheriff's department. he says jason started sending his mother cryptic letters that contained messages about a secret plan. in those letters, jason describes what he is basically wanting. he is doing it in code. andrea canning: henson believed the letters served as instructions. and this is what jason wanted-- get one of the trial witnesses to recant her testimony so jason could get a third trial. faye is jason's puppet. miss faye will do whatever jason asks her to do. andrea canning: according to henson,

jason told his mom to recruit a relative to help with the plan. so faye called her niece and asked her to go for a drive. faye payne (on recording): so he's come up with the only way he can get out. andrea canning: sensing something was off, the niece secretly pushed record on her phone. faye payne (on recording): i have to ask you because jason had to ask me. and i feel like i have to do everything that jason has said. niece (on recording): no, i understand. andrea canning: faye asked her niece if she could find a man, a hired gun type, who would coerce that witness who testified against jason to change her story. and the way to do that was to threaten the witness's child. faye payne (on recording): you would do something to the child. basically, you would be scaring this person. niece (on recording): so to threaten the lady, whether she has a child or something? faye payne (on recording): yeah, some child. i don't know. niece (on recording): ok. you need to do this, or your child-- we're going to hurt your child or-- faye payne (on recording): yeah, something like that. andrea canning: faye then put pressure on her niece by telling her if she didn't help them,

jason would end his life. faye payne (on recording): he'll kill himself. he's already got a plan. niece (on recording): honestly, faye, if he kills himself, everybody's going to think he's guilty, though. faye payne (on recordiing): yeah, but he doesn't care. he'll be dead. andrea canning: the car ride ended, and so did the conversation. faye's niece then called the police and told them everything. so who was that witness? someone you'll recognize, leah courtney, the emt. she was blindsided when police called with the chilling news. she and her six-year-old son, whose face we blurred, were the intended targets. that was just the most shocking and hardest day in my life. i fell to my knees. i cried. i locked the door. i called my husband, and i just-- i panicked. i thought, they're going to come kill us. andrea canning: investigator henson says he doesn't believe faye payne ever hired anyone. but in october 2016, she was arrested

for solicitation of tampering with a witness in a capital felony. why do you think jason had faye zero in on the emt in particular, leah? leah did not testify in the first trial. she only testified in the second trial. and jason felt like that her testimony was key to the jury in that trial. this year in high school so i can graduate. andrea canning: remington and jackson, who had already endured a lifetime of tragedy, now had to watch their beloved grandmother being hauled in front of a judge. you know, i feel like she does have good in her. and, you know, i really hated to see her, you know, in the courtroom in handcuffs seeing her. you know, your grandmother in shackles, that's kind of hard too. i didn't know what to think to see her sitting there in her handcuffs, and she'd smile at us. i didn't know how to take that. andrea canning: faye pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 10 years of probation.

she has since passed away. and even though jason has no chance of parole, leah still remains fearful to this day. she's worried jason will be able to work his prisoner connections to find someone to harm her family. what would you say to faye and jason now? what you have both done has affected my life a lot. but i'm not going to let you win. you will not win. i will come out on top. andrea canning: as for remington, when we last checked in, she was about to start college on a theater scholarship. jackson was saving up to buy a home and looking to get licensed in physical therapy. they hadn't spoken to their father since his arrest back in 2008. but they did have a request for him-- release their mother's ashes to them so they can have some closure. we know she's gone. but without having the ashes, it's like she's even further away. and she's still doing gymnastics-- andrea canning: and there's one

thing these two strong teens are determined to change. they're going to break the cycle of pain and heartache that's filled their young lives. remington payne: i imagined when i was little, like, this perfect family. and so now just the idea that one day i'll be able to make that family for myself and for jackson and to have this, like, happy family, i'm so excited for that. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. trevor velinor: our 911 dispatch got a call, someone's missing. there's a woman who allegedly fell overboard. and that's all we know. we sent divers out. we did aerial searches. and nothing?