january of 2021. this was while trump was still in office. he supported the death sentence and executed something like five people in his last stint in the office. it meant the federal government will have executed more than three times as many people in the last six months than it had in the previous six decades. she said this is not justice. what message would you send to the other members of the supreme court. particularly the six ultraconservatives as they consider mr. marcell's life. >> irrespective of everyone's opinion on the death penalty. if we're going to have the death penalty and we're going to enact it everyone deserves a fair opportunity for everyone to hear the case in fact. that is what mr. williams is asking for and that is what he's being denied. >> his name is macellis williams and we're hoping he will be with us tomorrow and

with his family as well. and that is tonight's reid out. inside with jen psaki starts now. >> reporter: okay, there's a lot going on but i want to start tonight with a dumpster fire that's the only way to call it that is still raging in north carolina. because it's actually about more than one crazy guy. and believe me he is definitely crazy. if you've read any of the things he's said. it's also about more than one important swing state. believe me, north carolina is very important. but this really is a story about the corner of the republican party has backed itself into. as i'm sure you've all heard from now and probably wish you could unhear, unsee if you've been paying attention. mark robinson the republican nominee for governor in north carolina posted a lot of stuff on a porn site.

he expressed support for reinstating slavery and called mlk an f-ing nami. his words not mine. ever since then robinson has repeatedly denies making those comments. what we heard from him today was just about as trumpy as you can get. >> we're in talking right now. everything up to legal council to take cnn to task for what they have done to us. we are going after them. okay. we are going to go after them for what they've done. >> reporter: threatening to sue a media organization for reporting on something you actually did. i wonder who he learned that trick from. so that's mark robinson's response. now when it comes to the rest of the republican party. not all of them but many republican leaders, we are seeing some flashes of what you would expect to see in the wake of a scandal like this. i mean, four of robinson's top staffers have resigned.

they're cutting his spending, our current media buy expires tomorrow and no further placements have been made. that's all they said. so yeah, robinson is losing staff and he's not getting any more money from the republican's association. none of that is good. he was already losing before this. but as the staff abandons him and the money is drying up no one is speaking forcibly as to why those things are happening even though it's quite obvious as those things are -p happening. there's no denouncement of the self-proclaimed self-nazi comments and there's been no denouncement from far too many leaders of the republican party. donald trump has absolutely zero percent control. and he defends the indefensible every time he could get.

that guy did not mention robinson not once in north carolina, of all places. jd vance did manage to say something about this while really saying nothing at all. >> do you believe him that those were not his posts. >> i don't not believe him, i don't believe him. i think you have to let these things play out. >> j.d. vance took another crack at it today in north carolina. >> what he said or didn't say is also between him and the people of north carolina. the people of north carolina are tkpwroeupbg going to make that decision. listen i've heard some of the statements, some of them are pretty gross. robinson said those statements are false, that he didn't really speak them. i think it's up to robinson that he needs to speak to the people of north carolina.

it's between the lieutenant general. and then it continued with mike johnson. when asked if he supporting robinson a man who never misses a moment to talk about his faith and hoey important it is to him. a man who has spoken repeatedly out about anti semitism said this. i'm not involved in the north carolina governor's race i have enough on my hands. and senator tom cotton reiterated that nonanswer answer just yesterday. >> do you think trump should still support mark robinson in north carolina. >> i will leave that up to former president trump and the people of north carolina. >> really, the guy applauds on a porn site and that's all you can do. senator graham outdid governor cotton. >> i think what is going to

happen. he deserves a chance to defend himself. mark robinson. the things they are saying are beyond horrible. and if they are true he does not deserve the seat. if they're not, he has a huge lawsuit on his hands. >> none have said, this is wrong, there's no place for bigotry, anti semitism, sexism, or any flirtation with naziism with anyone in our party. none of them have said that. because they can't say that because if they say that about mark robinson then they have to say that about donald trump and

j.d. vance. if they speak against the racism that mark robinson has expressed then they have to speak out against trump and vance. we had to bring out the big table. simone sanders-townsend host of the weekend right here on msnbc. okay. a lot happening. i just gave my take on the mark robinson news. mark, you never hold back. what does all of that tell you right now about the state of the republican party. >> here's the thing. donald trump has introduced an ethic to hear.

you deny, you attack the media, you claim it's all made up. and then you never apologize. you never show any kind of courage. you never step back and do the decent thing. the problem there is the con contagion. you have people who have to go on tv and sound like idiots. like a thinking person. >> i think that's a fair statement of what we just saw. >> it's not just this case. it's everything like j. d vance having to say we made up these stories but it's okay because it's freedom of speech. whatever it is. thinking people can actually make determinations about this and concludes these are not people really fit to serve and these are not answers that are acceptable to me. that's what i think this is. it's more than what's happening in north carolina. it's a contagion. >> so there are similarities. hershel walker. there's similarities for different reasons. trump is at the top of the

ticket. he's never silent about anything. does this feel similar or different to you? >> i think some of the anxiety that you put your finger on here in the accomplishment where they don't seem to know what there is about this. stems from the fact that throughout the party leaders do not know where the line is anymore. for what they're base will tolerate and what they won't. part of this is the decentizing that donald trump has had. part of it is go back to when donald trump came on the scene, that party was already on the. for the last 9 or 10 years basically at this point, they've been following donald trump's lead. and, donald trump is not giving a clear indication about what to do with mark robinson. so republican leaders don't know what to do about mark robinson and that's where you get all the confusion that you

just showed from j.d. vance all the way on down to local leaders in north carolina. >> it doesn't, gretchen it doesn't feel confusing. there's disagreements in the party. >> this never happened before trump. trump is the inigma here. for these crazy candidates do they win or do they lose. like most of the time like walker they have lost. trump is teflon. he has had no repercussion for the things he's said. robinson will likely lose in north carolina. north carolina is an incredibly important state to kamala harris and to don donald trump. my concern is trump is at the top of the ballot with kamala harris and north carolina also has a history of a split ticket. they voted for trump last time but they voted in a democratic governor, right. so they have that history, so robinson can lose. i'm not sure that that means that people don't still vote for trump in north carolina. >> that is such, the split

ticket. it has not been one on the federal level since 2008. since barack obama won in north carolina. north carolina is a hard state. simone and i have spend a lot of time in campaign buses. way too many hours. >> way too many hours on campaign buses. >> trump has been there. he has traveled there. harris would love to win north carolina. i think democrats would breathe a sigh of relief. what's the state of things there and what, for people you're talking to in the state to gretchen's point. how much is this if at all impacting the top of the ticket. >> can i say something about what mckay and mark noted. >> yeah. >> i think there's the political analysis of this. then there's theoretical conversation. you know in the weeks and months after the assassination of dr. king. i should talk about that versus the lieutenant governor of north carolina. a few weeks after his assassination, a poll said the majority of people thought dr.

king brought the assassination against himself. they thought he was a terrorist . that he had pushed by it while he was alive. why do i bring this up? because for the republican party apparatus, and the elected officials. they are concerned about where their voters are. the public opinion of their voters. but, the public opinion of voters isn't always right. and so, one could argue that if people just had the courage. within the republican party apparatus to buck what the public opinion is of a lot of trump voters which is not the majority of the republican party apparatus. perhaps things would look different. but time after time example after example when it has mattered. people have not chosen to go against donald trump, they tuck their tail between their legs. the j.d. vances in the world will still

in fact, be elected. you had a whole piece in the atlantic. i think when it comes to north carolina, robinson is a sitting senator. things that were frankly known about him which is why people i talked to. >> he had already said some of those crazy things. >> people who are on the ground say his crazy is baked in. these people voted for him any way the last time as lieutenant governor. so i don't know what effect, i think the effect of the campaign staff leaving, that to me, real republicans who wanted to work for a potential republican governor. a trump endorsed republican. that could make a difference to some republican voters. but let's just be very clear. they didn't leave because of the anti semitism. they left because of the porn site. and a man who is, disparaging transkids and transpeople in his comments but apparently likes to indulge in the watching of it in his private

time, hypocrite. >> i think what would move the needle is if they had an abortion bill. >> i actually think there could be a reverse coat tails effect. it's very rare and i understand why people are skeptical that it will happen. usually the top of the ticket is the one who has the trickle down effect on the rest of the ticket. mark robinson is a much more weaker candidate than a typical republican on the ballot. split ticket happens in north carolina. but the things that he has said r-l going to, are already widely known yes in the state. but he's unpopular. he's not polling well. he's almost certainly going to lose. and i think that that could have a real effect. those republicans aren't necessarily going to go vote for kamala harris. they're just not going to show up because they don't have a guy. >> there's also the legislature is controlled by the public in north carolina. to your point that's an area that could hugely impact

abortion rights. you haven't weighed in here on what you think. is there an impact on the top of the ticket. >> he was going to lose any way. i'm going to go out on a limb and say he's going to lose now. if i'm wrong, they could show this clip and have a big party. just play it over and over. no he's not going to win. so he was not a great candidate to begin with. as mckay said yeah no this could depress turn out. look i do think that as i said before, i mean, the kind of circus act you see around trying to have republican politicians explain this away is a terrible look. i mean you don't have to be, you know that bright to sort of see what's going on here. and yeah, of course it's going to be depressed. you would hope it would be. certainly trump has his supporters. i agree with gretchen, an abortion thing on the ballot would be more definitive. >> keep your thought.

we're coming back. we have congressman raskin later. but first kamala harris tries to talk donald trump into a second debate. i'm back with the full panel in 60 seconds. that make you say, woah. and their hair looks like this. or someone says, the doors come off. then you just know what it was. what it is. and what it always will be. because when you're an original, there's only one. thursday night football on prime. it's on. ready to have some fun? yeah, let's do it. the dallas cowboys take on the new york giants, as thursday night football is on. stream thursday night football. only on prime. meet the jennifers. each planning their future through the chase mobile app. hellooo new apartment. one bank for now.

for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. c1 in pennsylvania, where donald trump is holding rally tonight. i just mentioned this earlier. he was greeted with these billboards depicting him in a chicken suit. i'm sure he did not love those. the text reads quote there's no debate, donald trump's a chicken. over the weekend, kamala harris says this all stems from this. she announced she would accept an invitation to debate trump again. of course she would because she did great in the first one. and trump said it was too late to hold another debate since early voting has already begun. has already begun in many places now. never mind also the fact that trump debated president biden

on october 22nd in 2020 and also in 2016. which was also early voting was happening. and we had to give you all those details too. the whole group is back with me. and i want to hear from all of you. historically there are three debates and they're usually happening in the fall. we all know this because you've all covered this. and you've all lived through it. it's dominant in fall which is a weird thing. you know vice president harris the best of all of us i think it's safe to say. my take is she did great in the first debate. she needs to make more moments. so i think this stems from

trump complimented the cnn debate. >> trump has said he is not going to debate and ends on the debate stage. he doesn't like being called a chicken, he doesn't like coverage that says he's weak and scared. what is your actual excuse. perhaps you don't want to do it. in that case, his ego jumps in and he ends up on a debate stage. now if i were advising the trump people which is a statement i never thought i would say. i would be of the there's no way in heck you're getting back on a debate stage with that lady. she ate your lunch and breakfast and i'm not even going to make dinner. >> she's not going to make dinner. here's the question i have. the race is very close to state the obvious. they both need moments. i know she destroyed him on the debate stage. what do republicans think. >> if you're surveying

republicans on the hill they would probably rather he not debate again. here would be the case for him debating. the expectations are going to be incredibly low for him, right. he had a really bad debate, vice president harris did much better than him. everybody saw that. the majority of viewers people who watch the debate said that in polls afterward. because he will have a much lower bar, the case for him doing it would be show up and clear it and people might say, actually it's not as bad as i would remember. i would also say, vice president harris her reason for debating again is he did so much better than him last time. i think she could use more opportunities to introduce herself to the american public. that last debate reinvolved mostly around her case with donald trump. she prosecuted it well. going into that debate the consensus was she needed to introduce herself. she needed to make the case for herself. i'm not sure she got the case

to do that and that's why this would be great for her. >> people said they saw her but they need to know more. we need to get more into policies. i know her aids don't want her to do them because there's some risk. but they should do that. because the voters are clambering for that information. she was so exquisitely trained in that first debate that i'm sure people are worrying that she could only do the same or do slightly less. and to your point, trump can only probably do better. and if he actually talks about policies, that could be a benefit to him. >> i guess i would note that what people saw from the vice president that is how she is. because she is a, i mean her actual former professional training was as a courtroom prosecutor. that is what they saw on the

debate stage is what i think consistently present. it's what she presented. >> you nodded your head when mckay said. what's hard is you need big moments in campaigns to kind of have. >> i think she is the only candidate here who has growth potential. she could i mean a solid, not even a great debate she had the last time would help her immeasurably. i think it would be a closing argument kind of thing. don't sleep on the walz-vance debate. there will be more emphasis. but these are two kind of uniquely compelling figures who are making a, who could potentially be effective on their own merits but i think walz in particular seems to have nailed down a lot of lines that he could use to great benefit to the ticket. >> he essentially changed the

messaging of the democratic party organically. we're all nerds but i think it'll be fun to watch. if they were 10 points up, they might not debate. but there's a poll, there's some good news for harris in the sense that her approval rating has gone up more by more than it has for anyone since george w. bush post9/11. she's moved in some demographic groups but there's also some groups they haven't moved in. >> she's down 10e%. the interesting thing about the threat to democracy that has been so much tkpobg tkphrobg democracy. all the polls are showing that it's the same. its inexplicably to me but maybe they should not be using that line. when walz says that trump is weird i think that resinates more with voters than the

threat to democracy. although that makes no sense to any of us as journalists. i think though she needs to continue to give more specifics in a succinct way. >> why do you think that about her and not trump. >> i'm not backing up trump at all. it's all about red meat. she needs to give more details because people are clambering to know more about her. >> it's hard to know what they want from her. when they say they want to know more. do they want a 20 point plan or do they want to know more about her. i hope you all come back. we won't show a clip of you,

thank you. mark mckay, gretchen, simone, love justice. everybody should check it out. make sure to check simone's special black women in america the road to 2024. she's working a lot. when donald trump says we don't need votes like he did again over the weekend he's screaming the quiet part outloud. mark elias is standing by to talk about an avalanche of voter suppression. we'll be right back.

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c1 now i worked on my fair share of campaigns. i can tell you canvassing, door knocks and turning every vote you can is kind of the whole point of the whole thing. republicans are not seeing anything even resembling an effective ground game. a report like that six weeks out from election day should kind of be a huge red flag for any campaign. but as trump suggested again just this weekend, turning out votes just isn't his top priority. >> i said you know we don't need votes what we need is honesty in the election. if we have honesty, we have all the votes we need. >> i mean, you definitely need votes in an election. that's the whole thing. but what trump is referring to there is what he and republicans like to call election integrity. which i'm putting in quotes because by that they mean,

lawsuits and voter intimidation and voter suppression. by the beginning of september, republicans had already filed more than 70 lawsuits challenging voting access. and the rnc says it has more than 165,000 volunteers ready to watch the polls. but trump isn't just focused on what his campaign is doing to weaponize his big lie. he's also fixated on what states are doing. and it's clearly what's happening now in georgia. they approved a new pressure that says local officials may conduct reasonable inquiry that quote the results are a true and actual accounting of all votes cast in that election. while that may sound harmless on its surface what it does is open the door for local officials to refuse or delay certification of any results they don't like. on friday, the same election board voted on another new measure. this one requiring counties to hand count the total number of

ballots. which is incredibly arduous and can take a long time. and that's already been called unlawful bill the republican attorney general. and state election supervisors and poll workers are warning this rule change could cause complete chaos by taking up too much time, money and certainly producing counting errors. we will see if these new rules in georgia stand but one thing is for certain. trump and his allies are more interested in injecting chaos to suppress the vote than they are winning new votes. joining me now is mark alias. partner at the mark alias law group. i know what he said when he said we don't need new votes. but you do this for a living. you're a professional. what did this mean to you. >> i think the one thing that people are mistaken in saying

is we should take trump seriously but not literally serious. he has said on several occasions that he doesn't worry about votes. he wants to build this army of vote suppressers. so i think we take that literally. i think they are scrambling at the last minute. i think down ballot republicans are quite nervous by all of this which is probably why ap is reporting it. but owe know what, they made their bed with this guy. >> they made it. if you have a person at the top of the ticket saying voting by mail is not a good way to vote. i went through a quick summary there of what's happening in georgia. i think when you hear. this is one of those things that i got asked at my neighborhood pot luck this weekend because people are wondering what the impact will be. it sounds scary. it sound like it will take forever to count the vote. i'm going to paraphrase and ask you what you think.

republicans speaking out means there isn't legal standing. that maybe even someone like the attorney general in the state could challenge it. but what happens now? what could stop this from moving forward? >> yeah, look. i think it's a big story that the very conservative attorney general of georgia. you know not someone who is regularly associated with being oppositional to donald trump. he's very conservative. he came out, his office came out and said that these rules that are being enacted are likely illegal. so i think, it is now incumbent on him and the secretary of state to perhaps take the next step and make bring litigation of their own to bring an end to this. let's remember where this all began. this began with donald trump on a campaign stage calling out three members of the state canvas. state board of elections by name. now, i mean you and i have done a lot of campaigns. we've done some campaigning in the past together. when was the last time you heard a candidate call a out a state board of election member

by name? >> also, he doesn't know where bagram air base is. what are the things that people people are supposed to be concerned about? >> first of all, everybody should be concerned if they're registered to vote and they vote. that's the most important thing. but in terms of these particular issues, the state board of election is changing rules at the very last minute. ballots have actually started to go out. and they are still in the process of trying to change the rules by which they are counted and certified. so you know, election officials this is going to sound very mundane but election officials have to know what they're doing

and every time there's a change, that's a problem for them. he wants to inject a number of ires. that's going to get defeated. they're going to lose this in court. they'll lose it, the county officials are against it. but this is the only plan that republicans and donald trump have left. >> i think people are happy to hear mark elias say that. i have to ask you about nebraska because this is another one people are following. there's been this effort in nebraska for those of you out there not following led by trump allies to make it a winner take all state. making it difficult for a democrat to win. it has been possible and still is possible for a democrat to win electoral vote. but a key republican lawmakers came out in opposition blocking it today as i understand it. trump freaked out on social media which tells you a lot. is this over in nebraska? can people breathe a lie of

relief. >> there's a unilateral chamber. it appears they're going to give up. good for this individual for standing up against this last minute change. republicans used to compete for the majority of votes, they no longer do that. donald trump wants to win not by getting the most votes but by trying to figure out how to suppress votes and win through the electoral college. and those were his efforts. >> you have a lot on your plate. thank you for joining us. trump demanded investigations of foes. he often got them. i'll break down the stunning details and then talk about it all with congressman raskin. we'll be right back. on every pe with the chase ink business unlimited card

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c1 four years after donald trump left the white house we are still learning new details about his efforts to weaponnize the federal government. still learning new details. trump stunned aids back in 2018 telling them that quote if attorney general jeff sessions would not order the department to go after hillary clinton and james comey the former fbi director of course mr. trump would prosecute them himself. michael smith broke it down even further. >> the president of the united states said that he wanted to turn himself into a prosecutor. he wanted to use the powers of

the federal government to investigate and go after his perceived rivals, enemies and critics. >> so in this piece, schmidt also said that white house lawyers wrote trump a long memo explaining that he could not start a prosecution himself. but they were so scared that he would, that they smuggled copies of their memo. his federal judges did move forward. and they went after people he hated, people like clinton, comey, and john bolton and amarosa they were all investigated. trump attacked members of the media all the time. we all saw this happening. the justice department at the time took it upon themselves to go after the phone and e-mails

of the journalists he didn't like. bolton said when trump says things like these he's serious about it. i know by experience that he constantly brought up the idea and will continue it. some of trump's impulses were stemmed by the justice department. but what if he wins reelection and he has some plan to take out those guardrails. that is what project 2025 was actually meant to be. it's an effort to build a deep state of trump zone. beyond the policy play book is a data base of 20,000 applicants ready to be part of the next trump administration and that data base is still growing. the point here is trump doesn't even need to officially order things to happen. he didn't in all those cases i mentioned. he just needs to put his loyal croonies in position where they

know if he muses about something it means they should act. and that makes the staffing of the department of justice a historically independent agency that makes their own decisions even more important. so if trump does win, what's the democrat's plan to prevent him from fully going through with it. subject 3: i missed you. my daughter is being treated for leukemia. subject 2: mom, mom, mom, mom. subject 3: i hope that she lives a long, great, happy life and that she will never forget how mom and daddy love her. st. jude, this is what's keeping my baby girl alive. subject 4: this september, you can join the battle to save lives during childhood cancer awareness month

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as we know it it involves politicizing the federal work force and gutting the professional civil service. weaponizeing the department of justice against political rivals and the people. >> that's congressman jamie raskin you all know him talking about project 2025. the thing is thanks to this brand new reporting on the new york times we can see there was

plenty of weaponnizing in the first trump. and in this 2025 report. is there quote in there. quote there's no record of the inquiries and other actions coming about as a result of a formal signed order from mr. trump. instead he repeatedly signals what he wanted publicly and privately leaving no doubts in subordinates. >> like all mob bosses. donald trump would make his intentions very clear.

he wanted to go after hillary kreupb clinton. the whole lock her up thing was not political whimsy, that was real. and when comey refused to go after hillary then he turned on comey saying he should be prosecuted. and he would do it himself. you start to see in donald trump's paranoid world view, vengeance really is the substance of politics. that's really what it's all about. going on vendettas against perceived political adversaries

and enemies and it's amazing the people were on, that list. james comey, andrew mccabe. everybody knows about cohen. his pivate council for many years who was willing to do anything for donald trump. then donald trump wants to bring the full wrath on the department of justice on cohen to keep him from exercising his first amendment rights and saw to it that michael cohen end up in solitary confinement for a couple of weeks. if he would do this sort of thing as the director of the fbi, the deputy director of the fbi, his own counsel, imagine what he would do to any ordinary citizen out there who dares to take a stand against donald trump. when he says dictator day one everybody has to take him at his word. he really means that. he will feel as though he's made his intentions clear all the most justified. let's not forget the united

states supreme court in its roberts court wisdom, has now said, that the president of the united states has immunity from prosecution for actual crimes committed as president of the united states if they are perceived to be within the core functions of the presidency. under the rubrik of the full function even if they are felony offenses so they'll be totally unbridled. >> we don't like to play a lot of donald trump clips here. it's important to hear. and he's at a rally and it's important for people to hear and what he means by it. >> we're going to go after anybody that gets cheating in the election. we're going to go after them harder than anyone has ever been sought before. because these people are really

a threat. they are a threat to democracy. the democrats are a threat to democracy. >> i mean he has said these things before. what is your reaction. what should people take away from that? >> well, it's a remarkable clip and i saw three things. one was a projection of his entire approach to this election. he's not campaigning. they're not canvassing and going door to door. they're not trying to enlarge the maga coalition. they're trying to figure out ways to nullify votes as they did on january 6, 2021. they're trying to suppress the vote. repress the vote, control the election. they've got a bag of dirty tricks that are beginning to be taken out of the bag right now. the second thing is it's a threat. so it's a clear attempt to intimidate people. we saw what they did to election workers in 2020. and they are trying to create as much fear as possible across

the country in people who are just administering our elections. the people who make democracy functional in america. but the third thing is, we know based on all the reporters, that was a promise. he means to follow through on that. he you know his advertised the names and the faces of those of us who are on the january 6 elect committee saying we're wanted for various imaginary crimes floating around in his head. but now he's saying basically everybody who participating in the election will be subject to his vengeance and he has said he will be an instrument of revenge for his followers. so we have got to take him seriously here. >> we have to take it seriously. it's a perfect place to end. congressman raskin. it was great talking to you. i always learn things and see things broadly. we're back after a very short break.

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c1 okay, i got a big announcement. i'm heading to north carolina this week on wednesday to interview second man douglas emhoff. i'm going to ask him about how he's helping to shift the definition of masculinity. that does it for me tonight. rachel maddow starts right now. hey rachel. >> chel maddow starts right now hey rachel. >>