hi, everyone.

it's 4:00 in new york. a major hurricane, the largest city under indictment, ukraine's president at the white house right now, and just 40 days to go until election day in america. no shortage of big stories, big news on multiple fronts today. down in florida, hurricane helene is bearing down on the gulf coast threatening to bring surging waters that officials warn are, quote, unsurvivable. it is currently a category 3 but expected to strengthen before it makes landfall later today. we'll get an update at 5:00 eastern. then vice president harris has just wrapped remarks in a joint appearance with ukrainian president zelenskyy. one of the biggest foreign policy crises facing president biden and the next american president right into the 2024 presidential contest. donald trump lashing out at ukraine's leader, making claims that could have come straight out of the mouth of vladimir putin. we'll have all those stories and

much more over the next two hours. we begin with the stunning news right here in our backyard, right here in new york city, where mayor eric adams has been indicted on five charges of bribery, fraud, and soliciting illegal campaign donations. federal prosecutors allege he took part in a pay to play scheme with turkish officials for nearly a decade. he accepted illegal foreign campaign donations while working to advance their interests. here's u.s. attorney damian williams. >> year after year after year, he kept the public in the dark. he told the public he received no gifts, even though he was secretly being showered with them. this was a multiyear scheme to buy favor with a single new york city politician on the rise. eric adams. we allege that mayor adams abused that privilege and broke the law. laws that are designed to ensure officials like him serve the

people, not the highest bidder, not a foreign bidder, and certainly not a foreign power. >> now, according to the indictment, adams, quote, saw and accepted improper valuable benefits such as luxury international travel including from wealthy foreign business people and at least one turkish government official seeking to gain influence over him. eric adams also saw and received benefits from some of the same co-conspirators. prosecutors say that eventually turkish officials called in the favor. once again, from the indictment, quote, in september, 2021, the turkish official told eric adams that it was his turn to repay the turkish official by pressuring the new york city fire department to facilitate the opening of a new turkish consular building, a 36-story skyscraper without a fire inspection in time for a high profile visit from the turkish

president. the building would have failed an fdny inspection. in exchange for free travel and other travel-related bribes in 2021 and 2022, arranged by the turkish official, adams did as instructed. adams, now the first sitting mayor in the city's history to be indicted is denying the charges and insisting he will remain in office. >> i ask new yorkers to wait to hear our defense before making any judgments. i will continue to do the job for 8.3 million new yorkers that i was elected to do. >> that's where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends all here with me. state attorney for palm beach county, florida, also joining us, new york time editorial board member and msnbc political analyst, and nbc news investigative reporter, tom winter is at the table and he's been tracking the story for us for a long time.

tell us about the indictment and the response. >> right. the response, what was interesting, the indictment said a lot. but it does not cover all the thing that we have been hearing about that are under investigation. the second thing, they said there's an ongoing investigation or we continue to look into things. he didn't make a threat today. he made a promise. he said we will hold more people accountable. he is promising more law enforcement activity, in the form of arrests, guilty pleas, indictments, whatever it is. it is very clear that they are not done. but today's box that has been wrapped up and presented to the court makes it clear this conduct involving adams as alleged has been going on for quite some time. that it goes back to before he was even running for mayor. so the questions is, you just read directly from a key component of this indictment which is the idea of repaying for something. and that's where this becomes a problem.

the other problem here is that he solicited donations allegedly, and donations were provided, that came from a foreign entity, a foreign individual, and then were perhaps through straw donors. that's a big concern for the federal government. they are really concerned, particularly in new york, we're seeing it on the china end of things. now a focus on turkey as well. this idea that foreign nationals are really starting to put their thumbs on the scale of the way new york city and new york state government are running. if that's the case here, i think the broader question for us is folks wonder, well, nicole, why are you talking about mayor adams and a new york city mayor today, he's a huge figure in politics in this country. new york city is hugely important to this country whether you like it or not. but also is this going on in the community? there's a really question about that. so all of those are themes that popped out as well as his behavior. that his phone was taken by the fbi. then they had to subpoena his personal phone.

according to the indictment, he changes the password on that and then tells the fbi that he forgot the password that he just set. i'm reading from the indictment. and he was unable to provide the fbi with the password that would unlock the phone. so it is going to the way he operates and the way he behaves. if all of this is true, it's difficult. i haven't talked about the nypd investigation, i haven't talked about all the other members of his administration. top level figures. first deputy mayor, the school's chancellor, all of whom are related in some way. they have all had their phones taken or been searched. what happens with those investigations. so today feels more like a building block than it necessarily feels like the entire wall. yet we're talking about the person at the top. >> tell us about the broader picture of an entire administration potentially paralyzed by the other investigations you alluded to? >> paralyzed is a fair adjective. as i talked to people in the new york city government, the police

department or city hall, that's the question. how does he move forward now? who can he pick up the phone and say let's do an event on tuesday. let's talk about this new initiative i'm going to launch. nobody will touch that. there is no indication that anybody in the city, everybody that i talk to, there is no indication that anybody is calling city hall and saying, you know what, mr. mayor, let's launch this thing. let's move on and turn the page. that paralyzes the city government part of it. people have their trash picked up tomorrow. the fire department will respond to calls tomorrow. that will continue. but what happens with the police department? because we have not heard about that investigation in today's charges. that is being handled by federal agents assigned to the new york attorney's office. let's compartmentalize as that investigation comes out. if there are charges, the loss of trust within nypd leadership could be a real, real challenge for that agency. and i am concerned about a brain drain there as far as people

that day in and day out are not at all, they do important counter terrorism work, important intelligence work, important detective bureau work. will some of those top level commanders or some of the people who work in those agencies say my time is up. i can retire. i'm out of here. what impact does that have on the city long-term. >> let me be really clear. there is the combination of brain drain. people leaving voluntarily, high-level quality people because they don't want to be tainted. but there are also high-level officials. >> 100%. this was an interesting appointment by mayor adams. phil banks, the deputy mayor for public safety. he oversees the police and the fire department. he was an unindicted co-conspirator. he had to resign from the nypd in 2014. he came about as close as you can get, according to court documents in our prior

reporting, and all the great work of people you know. came very close to being indicted back then. and still was appointed to this position in this administration which raises some questions, and there have been a number of people in the new york city community that wondered why this person is back in that spot. he had his phone taken. so to be clear, i'm not sitting here saying any of the departments or any of the agencies, that there is some sort of resignation or mass resignation in the works. just knowing what i know, do we get to a tipping point, or do they say, you know what? we'll fight through this. we'll stick it out and see what we can do to help new york city. i wouldn't blame them for either direction they choose. >> and not that our audience needs to be reminded why nationalers but we're sitting here about two and a half weeks after the anniversary of 9/11. the city is a potential target for terrorism. it is a city where crime is a

national story in both directions. the numbers, the success story is as important as the story being told about what works as the rising crime figures were five years ago when covid first hit the city. what happens here matters and has serious implications. and there's a serious competence crisis. >> certainly, nicole. also, new york city's economy is a major driver of the national gdp. and of course, it is also home to the united nations. there's a reason why foreign officials were interested in even what at the time was a low-level democrat in office. the startling part of the story is that eric adams, when he was targeted by turkish officials, was actually the brooklynborough president. that's a job that doesn't hold much political power. so of course, part of the concern here is, well, who else are these foreign officials engaged with? so that is a serious concern as

well. and of course, even within the indictment, there are moments where eric adams travels to istanbul on his way to ghana before he takes office. well, and he meets with a turkish official. what did they discuss? what was promised? what was asked of the mayor? we don't yet know. i also want to say that the city does have more than 8 million people here. there are about 300,000 municipal employees who as you said, they're going to pick up the trash tomorrow. they're going to educate your child. they're going to drive buses and trains. they're going to be on the lookout for terrorism. and they're continuing to do their job. their job is much harder today than it was yesterday because of eric adams. and also, just part of the frustration is, we have never in new york city seen a mayor who looked at public office as his own personal slush fund. the extent of the narrative,

sxvg, he's entitled to a defense. he says that he's innocent. the extent of the narrative that is alleged against him, this indictment is stunning because this wasn't about bending the rules. this was about putting people, his own cronies, in public office who were as essentially helping him to use that public office to gain favors with foreign officials. and then in the midst of this, he somehow procures, not somehow, he procured $10 million in public taxpayer money to help him get elected by using straw donors. so this is as stunning betrayal and i think that new yorkers are right to be concerned about also just who is running the city at this point. there is no, we've got resignations or pending resignations from the commissioner of education, we have an interim police commissioner who has seen a raid unrelated. we don't even know what that is about.

we have the resignation of the city's public health official who is not under investigation but simply couldn't take it anymore, it appears. so i want to say, this is not business as usual. part of what is stunning to me as someone who has covered city hall for over a decade, the extent of which mayor adams made quick work of what was a very clean city hall, stacked with public servants who play or may not disagree with public policies but were there for the public good. i talked to many who are in and out of government. they are heartbroken. and those working on housing policy, to make sure kids can read. and they are saying today, who is in charge? and i thought we were working for the public. why isn't our boss working for the public? >> what do those people think should happen now? >> it's a little complicated, in part because, what would happen if mayor adams did step down or was forced to resign which many people do think is the right thing to do, would essentially

trigger a special election, a nonpartisan special election within 80 days, i believe it is 80 days. so that is an unknown. there is a whole variety of viewpoints about how that would serve the city or not. of course, as we know, you can't always game out the perfect political outcome. you have to do the right thing. you have to do the right thing in your role. whatever that role is. today we know this is just the first charges from what are at least four federal investigations into adams and his campaign or related officials. and there's more to come. i'm sad to say that. one happy note which is that, if mayor adams did commit these crimes, it's just encouraging to see that sdny, the u.s. attorney's office took it so seriously, and there are so many officials within city government, there is a moment in the indictment when a fire official, a fire department official says to his or her

boss, most likely his boss, says i can't sign off on this building because it's not safe. those are the public servants who i know and have covered in new york city government. so the question is who is eric adams and who is he working for? >> there are, i've been covering trump for so many years. there are different kinds of indictments. speaking indictments, lesser indictments, and there are indictments that look like they could have been written by the folks had a write sparanos. this one feels like it falls in that category. >> he was so used to these freebies that he flew to istanbul on the way to france. it's not a direct route. he was so used to flying on that. it was an upgrade or freebie. he was trying very hard to cover it up. blocking his phone as tom said. that is an interesting anecdote. apparently he felt the feds were

about to seize his phones. when they stopped him, he didn't have his personal phone on him. that's the phone the feds wanted. he said, well, i have it at home and i just changed my password. what's the new password? i don't know. his advisers were told, before they met with him to leave your phones outside the room. when you're told to keep your phones outside of the room with a mayor that something shady is going on. all that will be used by the feds to show intent. that could have been a defense. i didn't know they were straw donors. i thought they were legitimate. this shows intent. >> what do you make of what has been charged so far and what remains an open question? >> i think this is not even the end of the beginning. i think this is the beginning of all this. there are four separate investigations. this seems to scratch the surface right now even with the initial charges. he's facing up to 45 years in prison. the wire fraud alone is 20 years.

they love wire fraud. it's easy to prove and it could be used to get him to come to the table. this won't be the end. i think there will be a superseding indictment. then there's a state investigation. it will get worse before it gets better for him. the more he talks about how this is a politicized investigation and indictment, the worse it will be for him. it is a very trumpy thing to say the merrick garland of justice is doing this. the same prosecuting menendez, hunter biden, the president's son, it is really hard to keep calling merrick garland political unless you have a trumpy political in mind. >> where does this go next? >> i think the question is who decides to, and the u.s. attorney today, damian williams, kind of stressed if you know something, now is a good time to pick up the phone. >> cooperate. >> yeah. that's the key. and there are indications from the indictment that people have perhaps talked with him in the

past and people may have gone forward and testified. the question is, had a now of the group that is left picks up the phone and says that. from the law enforcement perspective, i think what you'll hear is that a number of people in law enforcement will say, if you subpoena me, i'll come before the grand jury. the same with people in city government. they want to be seen perhaps as loyal. perhaps more loyal to the law. so yeah. send me some paperwork and i'll come talk to you. will that start to happen? i think you will hear about more interviews coming up of people inside the city agencies or within city hall. we haven't even talked about something that our colleague jonathan dienst broke, a bar owner in queens getting repeated visits from the nypd from the select group of individuals from the nypd, being told, if you want these problems to go away, you should contact this individual in the mayor's night life office. he contacts him. he says if you really want your problems to go away, you should sign up the brother of the picks

now resigned, and his brother james, should you contact him and hook up with his security firm. $2,500 later, i believe is the right amount, let me skip that. a certain dollar amount later, they say to him, okay, you're on board and all of a sudden, the visits and the harassment and the complaints against this bar owner would have stopped. that's what they told him to do. the bar owner did actually not go through with it. now he's talked to federal investigators. this may have happened all over the city. so what happens out of that investigation i think remains to be seen. >> i love that. the beginning of the beginning. thank you for starting us off. when we come back, switching gears, vice president kamala harris. we'll get to all of what's going on in washington. plus, he says he owes it to his

three granddaughters. why the four-star general said he's backing vice president kamala harris for president in november. and later, hurricane helene, now a cat 3 storm, what is expected to be a very big and very dangerous catastrophic event impacting millions of people in a few short hours. a live report on that and much, much more. more after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. break don't go anywhere today. t new iphone 16 pro on us. it's a little shimmy, shimmy... 'shaaaaake'. what you think kai? looks like he's chasing that ice cream truck. ice cream! he got his iphone 16 pro. the first iphone built for apple intelligence. cuz's holding it up like a baby lion. homie takes those t-mobile savings and calls it a day. respect. now at t-mobile.com, get the new iphone 16 pro on us. and families can save 20% every month versus the other big guys. life with afib can mean a lifetime of blood thinners.

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leadership. we must stand with our allies and our partners. we must defend our democratic values and stand up to aggressors. and we must stand for international order, rules, and norms. each one of these principles is at stake in ukraine. >> we have to end this war. we need a just peace and we must protect our people. ukrainians and ukrainian children and everyone from putin and we are grateful to america for supporting ukraine. >> that was ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy along with vice president harris discussing efforts to support ukraine in the brutal war against russia. president zelenskyy is in washington, d.c. today to make an in-person appeal to both the vice president and president joe biden for more aid. ahead of his meeting with the u.n. president, president biden announced a surge of military assistance to ukraine.

if elected, vice president harris has vowed to continue sending support to this vital u.s. ally. the importance of today's meetings are underscored by the fact that this could be the last time president zelenskyy meets with u.s. leaders who are receptive to aiding ukraine. that's if donald trump wins in november. he has shown where his loyalties lie this week, continuing to parrot talking points from vladimir putin. >> the president of ukraine is in our country and he's making little nasty aspersions toward your favorite president, me. it's not ukraine anymore. you can never replace those cities and towns and you can never replace the dead people. so many dead people. even the worst deal would have been better than what we have right now. if they made a bad deal, it would have been much better. they would have given up a little bit. and everybody would be living

and every building would be built. >> you can never replace dead people. joining our coverage, former u.s. ambassador to russia, msnbc political analyst michael mccall, the co-founder and executive director of protect democracy. mara is still with me. i have to start with you and this idea that he's running on appeasement, right? if no one ever is to die, that is to give the aggressor, the hitlers, the mussolinis, if you go back to world war ii, whatever they're asking for. he's arguing that if you fight for anything -- he's arguing that there's nothing worth fighting for. that feels, that feels tectonic to have someone running, to have someone that is a major party nominee running on a platform of appeasement. not just to anyone. appeasement to vladimir putin.

>> i've often thought if you had to pick a time and a place to be alive in human history, you probably would pick the united states of america in the last 100 or so years. we've been a far from perfect place and depending on who you are in this country, your fortunes may look better or worse than others. in terms of of a place where there was peace, where there was prosperity, where there was a general positive direction, pretty much no time and place in human history is better than this one. it has been because america has been, as vice president harris said today, standing next to president zelenskyy, a global leader in favor of freedom, in favor of democracy, helping to uphold a rules-based international order, and that is what she is running to continue. and the weird irony is that trump with his whole make america great again, evoking some glory day he wants to go back to, the glory days have been the days in which america has been a global leader.

here he is offering not american strength, offering not to promote american values around the world or a rules-based order, but to essentially surrender america to the rest of the world. he's essentially saying we should surrender our allies and he's essentially cowtowing to the world's most brutal dictators. i'm amazed at how many money the trump campaign is saving on speech writers by having the kremlin write its talking points. at this point it should not be mike johnson insisting ukraine withdraw its ambassador to the united states. it should be the rest of the country insisting that vladimir putin withdraw his ambassador, trump. >> unbelievable. unbelievable. let that sink in. i want to show you all of this is trump's own words. here's trump refusing to say on a debate stage that ukraine must prevail against our shared

enemy, vladimir putin. >> i want to ask you a very simple question tonight. do you want ukraine to win this war? >> i want the war to stop. >> get the war with ukraine and russia ended. if a president-elect can get it done before even becoming president. >> so ambassador, i mean, the news made around the world there is that he can't say that he wants ukraine to win because he doesn't. just talk about how tectonic is the only word i can grab to describe what a shift that is in u.s. foreign policy. that we have someone not hiding the fact that he's rooting for russia in a war against our ally, ukraine. >> tectonic is a good word. we've never had a president like this. a president that openly endorses appeasement as you were talking about. and has learned the lessons of the 1930s and '40s as horrible times for america.

but secondly, he seems to forget that he was president for four years. there was a war in donbas the entire time. putin was occupying creama the entire time and he did nothing to stop that war. nothing. so why should anybody believe when he becomes president-elect, vladimir putin will pick up the phone and do whatever he thinks he wants him to do. it's not going to happen. the main thing that he's been consistent on is he supports putin. he supports the autocrat. he supports the imperial invader of ukraine. and vice president harris supports democratic ukraine. and i think therefore, american voters have a really clear choice about what president they think will defend american interests and values. >> mara, vice president harris has done a good job, i think, of making it clear that what trump is saying goes beyond attacking

zelenskyy, which is shocking. but it is, as he said, lining himself up word for word with vladimir putin. let me show you her line. >> there are some in my country who would instead force ukraine to give up large parts of its sovereign territory, who would demand that ukraine accept neutrality and would require ukraine to forego security relationships with other nations. these proposals are the same of those of putin. >> i know this from working on campaigns myself, sometimes in the final stretch of a campaign, foreign policy isn't top of mind. what she's saying here is, being against nato and being against zelenskyy and being for what j.d. vance is for, that ukraine should cede territory to russia

is being for what putin wants. >> that's right. first of all, what donald trump said, it is not ukraine anymore. that is a putin talking point. i guess, we know that donald trump has been the subject of russian influence and so the question becomes, why is he continuing to do vladimir putin's bidding? while abandoning our allies and our commitment to nato? to democracy here and abroad? the fact that this is happening at a campaign rally tells you something also. again, you and i both know, foreign issues aren't necessarily top of mind as you said, for most voters in the final stretch of a campaign. so this is a personal vendetta that donald trump has against zelenskyy, and also, kind of a personal affinity that he has for putin. the question is, where in that alchemy are the american people? he's not thinking about any of us.

he's not promising to deliver something to the people who are at his rally. he's promising to deliver something for vladimir putin. >> that's such a good point. such a good point. in fact, what is in it for the american people is a more dangerous country to live in. if you appease russia, they don't say thank you, we're going home now. that's why it is so dangerous and unpopular. >> especially, we know that putin has tried to interfere in our elections before. so what a bizarre invitation to do so again. >> it is interesting. why is he still doing it? he did everything he could to have the investigations into his campaign put off and now he's doing it in rallies. thank you so much for being here. when we come back, he led american forces under both republican and democratic presidential administrations. four-star general mcchrystal

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as early as your 40s you may lose muscle and strength. protein supports muscle health. ensure max protein has a 30 gram blend of high quality protein to feed muscles for up to seven hours. so take the challenge. ensure, nutrition for strength and energy. vice president kamala harris is tipping to broaden her already wide coalition earning the endorsement today of retired u.s. army general stanley mcchrystal. he announced his support in an op-ed in the new york time today writing this. quote, some deeply consequential decisions are starkly simple. that is how i view our upcoming

presidential election. and that is why i have already cast my ballot for character and voted for vice president kamala harris. character is the ultimate measure of leadership for those who seek the highest office in the land. character will dictate whether we stand by our nato allies and against vladimir putin's continued aggression. character will dictate whether we have a commander in chief who how soons and respects the men and women who serve in uniform. joining our coverage, amy mcgrath and ian are still here. amy, this feels huge. we used the word tectonic to describe donald trump. this is as big of a deal in and out of the military. just for folks who may not be familiar. explain who stanley mcchrystal is. >> so general mcchrystal is a

former four-star u.s. army general. and lots of people in the military have served under him. he was commander in afghanistan for many years. he is a special forces background which is very elite. and he is widely respected. he is respected because, you know, he's a scholar. he's somebody that talks about leadership. and this is really important because those of us that serve our country, especially in the leadership ranks and go in as officers, we're told at west point from the day we start, from the day we raise our right hand at the u.s. naval academy, that the single most important trait in leadership is character. and that's what general mcchrystal is talking about. not just issues. the issues are important. what he said mattered to him and it matters to a lot of voters is that issue of character, saying endorsing vice president harris and saying she's got the

temperament and she's got the experience and strength and the other guy doesn't. >> let me read you a little more from general mcchrystal's op-ed about his granddaughters. he said i thought deeply about my choice and what i've seen and heard and what i owe my three granddaughters. i've concluded it isn't political slogans or cultural tribalism. it is the best president my vote might help select. i have cast my vote for character and that vote is for vice president kamala harris. it just, it renders unsustainable, people like paul ryan saying i won't vote for trump because character matters for me. if the character of the country matters to you at all, it would appear you have to take the next step. the step that general mcchrystal has taken. >> absolutely. and they should. and there is many who can still do this. secretary mattis, former chief

of staff john kelly, there are those people who can go a step further like liz cheney has done, like general mcchrystal has done, and endorsed kamala harris on that very issue. and if you think about character, one of the thing i love about his op-ed, he talked about what is character? it is what you do when the pressure is on. it's what you do, do you do the right thing when you know you're going to be tested in ways that you cannot really foresee. he talked about the cuban missile crisis and other things in history that have tested commanders in chief, presidents in the past. and donald trump doesn't measure up to that. look what he did on january 6th when his supporters were ransacking the capitol and all he needed to do was tweet something off to call them off. he couldn't do that. this is a test of character. that's what the presidency is

for general mcchrystal and that's what he's talking about here. it is very important. >> i want to read more about the other side of that when you turn a blind eye to a lack of character. he writes this. to turn a blind eye or make excuses for weak character from someone we propose to confer awesome power and responsibility on is to abrogate our role as citizens. we will get, and deserve, what we elect. if someone has to say it, it might as well be someone like general mcchrystal. >> i think our generals have unique insight into the risks posed by donald trump. the one thing that i have heard about that took place during the trump administration was that trump wanted to get directly in front of rank and file members of the military and he really was trying to get them to be more loyal to him than to the intervening chain of command. so the generals during the trump

administration often had to run interference to try to prevent trump from getting that direct access to cut out the chain of command and leadership. ultimately, as trump has indicated he wants to, he wants to follow the lead of some of these autocratic dictators around the world where they would bring them into not the constitution, not to their oaths of office, not to the rule of law, the chain of command, but to trump's own whim. and he was able to do some of that when he managed to persuade mark milley and those to walk with him through lafayette square in december 2020, and when milley realized, to his immense credit, that he had made a terrible mistake, he became one of the paramount members of trump's enemies list where trump threatened to jail him form. so he really understands the risk that someone like trump poses and they understand the importance, and then when you have one of our most decorated

generals saying they want vice president only the vice president harris to be their commander in chief, the character and the person they will put their own lives in the hands of that commander. >> you know, it's the pentagon and what he sought to do and publicly calling them my generals. it's the cia heading there the first day in front of the stars, the anonymous heroes whose service included giving their lives, and talk going the crowd sizes, and the state department. leaving ukraine in the dead of night for fear of her life. his own political appointees, the ambassador becoming a witness in the impeachment. everything he touched, he sought to corrupt. >> that's exactly right. before we get to that, i want to say one more thing about general mcchrystal. i worked at the white house the day president obama made the

decision to relieve him of his duties in afghanistan. that was a huge, big, confrontational day at the white house. my boss at the time, the national security, was general jones. general mcchrystal has every reason to not want to support the democrats. that was humiliating for him. that was a very bad day. and yet, he is putting country over these modern part son politics. this is a big deal that he has chosen to do this in a dramatic what the general did today and contrast it with what you just said about mr. trump. think about how many generals are endorsing him? think about how many people had a used to work for him are saying, we want him to return? there are one or two. i won't mention them by name. but the overwhelming majority are not endorsing him. they're writing books to tell us about why he is dangerous. and again, i just think the clarity of this issue for

national security has never been clearer. there are other times and other elections we've had when the difference between democrats and republicans were not that big. this is not one of those moments. this is a very consequential moment for anyone who cares about national security. not democrat or republican security. national security. >> and the reason, a couple of us have made the point, myself included, these are not often the things we talk about in the final 40 days of a presidential campaign. it's partly because of what you're talking about. it is not always divisive to stand with an al eye like ukraine against our adversary, russia. we have so many more things to ask you. we have to sneak in a quick break. k break.

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♪♪ ♪you know you got to live it,♪ ♪♪ ♪if you want to win...♪ [bump] time out! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty,♪ ♪liberty, liberty.♪ the generals, general mat tuss and general kelly, one of the things i hear from voters in focus groups, especially swing voters, is that for the voters to whom it has broken through that donald trump calls our vets suckers and losers, that has an impact. i think we need more of these generals to come out and say, we have to support her because he's such a threat. that's somebody that voters will trust who saw him up close. >> everybody is back. amy, that's something we've been talking about for months, if not years, just how powerful it would be for the generals who

saw trump up close to say what they saw, nothing more than that, not tell people how to vote but say what they saw and maybe say what that means in terms of their vote. does general mcchrystal create an opening for any of the folks we talk about so much to do the same, general mattis or general milly? >> well, look, i think it may. there's a distinction between somebody like general mcchrystal and general milly. the two of them did not serve as political appointees, they served in uniform, so it also makes it so extraordinary in what general mcchrystal has done is there's a very big tradition of former four stars and former generals and admirals in general of not waiting into politics after they retire. but there is a big distinction

between somebody like them and somebody like secretary mattis, former secretary of defense, former four star general, general kelly, h.r. mcmaster. these are people who took political appointments in the trump administration and a lot of folks believe that they owe it to america to tell us what they saw. they chose to get into politics and they should be telling us what they saw while they were -- while they were there. >> ian bassett, what keeps someone who saw everything and knows that the things that people worry about without maybe firsthand witnessing of those events, what keeps them quiet? what keeps an h.r. mcmaster silent? >> i think amy eludes to it there, which is this tradition that i think is held in very deep esteem, to sort of keep the military out of political matters. but amy explains here why there

are some differences, particularly among those who have served in political roles. but i also think that we also -- they need to recognize that all the traditions that are so important that we are trying to preserve, the constitutional order that they served so honorably to defend, is at stake and frankly when you are going to hire someone for a job, any job, a job as an office worker, a job as a desk clerk, a job as a salesperson, what do you do? you call the people who worked with them at their prior job because they're the people who have the best sense of whether that person is a capable employee. we already know that so many of the people who serve with donald trump are not endorsing him, so that's a pretty telling statement from the people who work with him, but from the people who worked most directly under him in some of these critical issues of national security, to not have them share what they saw with the american

people deprives the american people of the information we need to self-govern and endangers the republic. >> i mean, i think, and maybe this is sort of the vestiges of the campaign person left in me, ambassador mcfall, but if you are in the military, and i believe that they by and large represent the best of us, the people who do what the rest of us won't do, willing to serve and if necessary give their lives to protect the values we hold dear. trump is running on trying to destroy the values we hold dear. last time he was using the military to build cages from the children he seized and separated from the border. what he tried to do last time would have forced the military into unprecedented positions and roles. so we know that curtain number two would annihilate the values they hold dear. a felon can't serve in the military. a person with his criminal rap

sheet couldn't be under their command, and i just wonder at a human level, you've served with a lot of these individuals, what keeps you silent if everything you hold dear is on the line? >> well, explanation not excuse is what you just talked about. these are traditions that go deep, and i do know general mcmaster and general mcmattis, they both work at stanford with me. those are deep traditions they hold darrylly. those are for ordinary times. these are not ordinary times. these are extraordinary times. extraordinary circumstances compel people to do extraordinary things, and that's what general mcchrystal did today. i'm sure -- i can't say i'm sure, but i am guessing that was a difficult article for him to write. that cuts against the traditions he's had his entire career, but he decided that this was an

extraordinary moment that demanded from him that he can live with his conscience that he is trying to do something about it. i hope it now opens the doors for others given the reverence. i mean, sam mcchrystal is not your ordinary four star generals. he was one of the most respected generals in this country today, and i hope that this sends a signal to make it easier for others to do what he did very courageously today. >> ambassador michael mcfall, amy mcgrath, ian bassin, thank you all for spending time with us today. really grateful for all of you. ahead for us, hurricane had helene, a major cat 3 storm. it will make landfall later this evening. we'll get to that after a quick break. in adults with chronic migraine before they start.

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hi, everyone. it's 5:00 now in new york.

brand-new forecasting data freshly in hand reinforcing the dire life threatening nature of hurricane helene. a potentially deadly category 3 storm bearing maximum sustained winds near 125 miles an hour capable of leveling communities and rendering areas uninhabitable. it is now mere hours off of florida's coast expected to slam dead on in tallahassee, florida. president joe biden has issued emergency declarations for florida and georgia. we understand vice president harris was briefed on the situation this morning as well. time is nearly up. orders will soon change from evacuate to shelter in place in some areas. floridians up and down the gulf coast from the panhandle to sarasota have been asked to pick up and go, but some did not do so. fema's message to them, quote, hide from the wind but run from the water. hear's what they mean.

three of the critical dangers to be aware of with the storm bearing down now. first, the catastrophic storm surge. you might have heard the word unsurvivable used today to describe what they said. raging water as high as 20 feet. second, the rain. devastating amounts of rain. up to 20 inches locally with flash flooding likely from florida up into the carolinas. 120,000 people are already without power. third, the wind. the wind is threatening to uproot entire communities. already there are tornado warnings in effect and some 911 services have been disrupted. three distinct threats in what could be a nightmare in a day's long period in florida and beyond. that's where we start the hour with nbc news meteorologist, my colleague bill karins. tell us the latest? >> it's as dire as you just said. it is going to be a storm that

will be remembered, studied. this will be the last ever hurricane helene. i can almost guarantee this name will be retired after this. this storm is now beginning to move its wind and storm surge towards the coast for the first time. you notice the center, well defined eye. we can easily track that. lightning strikes around the eye. it has been rapidly intensifying over the last couple of hours. not what we want. another hurricane getting stronger as it approaches land. the bands whipping through the tampa bay, st. petersburg and sarasota area. the winds are picking up. in the next hour, this is as close as the storm is going to get to tampa bay. the strongest winds are over the next two to three hours. we've had gusts of 61 in venice, 52 in sarasota. we're starting to get power outages. i have a lot of plots out here. i don't want to miss anything. you can notice where the storm is heading, tallahassee to the north. barely windy at all. it is going to move in in a hurry. we're only 6 hours from those

areas getting 120-mile-per-hour wind gusts and right now the wind is almost nothing. this storm is flying 23 miles per hour. that's a very fast forward motion for a major hurricane. and because it's still intensifying, we think it will likely be a category 4 at landfall. the landfall position is going to be just southeast here of tallahassee, in between tallahassee and close to perry, florida. in between. we're not sure which of these two communities is going to go through the eye. maybe both do. maybe one gets the brunt of it, one gets the edge of it. these are the two most likely positions where you have structures destroyed, top halves of homes destroyed, trees down, power outages for weeks. that's what you're preparing for in hours. it's still a category 2 hurricane in southern georgia as we go throughout 2 a.m. that's unheard of. this thing is moving so fast it doesn't have time to weaken. by atlanta it is a tropical

storm by day break. it's not until tomorrow evening that it finally ends. the water, the wind is extreme. the life threatening portion of the storm is the water. we've already had a ton of rain. the mountains of north carolina, asheville. one of the river forecasts is higher than it's ever been. that river forecast, they've been watching that since the late 1800s. there have been epic, historic floods that have destroyed asheville. this one tomorrow will get higher than any of them previously. when you see that, you're like, oh. this is no joke. atlanta, south georgia, water is coming down. 43 million people are under flood watches with this. le storm surge, if there's one good things about this storm, it's making landfall in about the most remote pup lated portion possible. you look at a population density map. a couple small communities. those are going to go through something they've never seen before with up to 20 foot storm

surge. cedar key south wards, you're not getting a direct hit. we're predicting the highest levels in tampa bay fr recorded. not even from a direct hit. this storm is so huge it's pushing so much water that it's possible that areas like tampa bay, you could see a 6 to 8 foot storm surge. right now we're at low tide. only 2 foot storm surge. this is going to build quickly this evening, nicole, as the storm moves in. the this is as low as the water levels are going to be. it is going to rapidly rise. it will get dark and scary and a horrific night for anyone who decided not to get out of the way. >> talk about 20 foot storm surge. what does that mean? what does that look like? at this point, what do you do? >> at this point, it's almost -- if you can get out, get out. obviously if you're anywhere -- especially cedar key north wards all the way up through the coast here, these are all the areas where we could get the 20 foot storm surge. they call this unsurvivable.

at fort myers, that was 14 to 16 feet. we lost 150 lives. the saving grace is this is not heading for a metropolitan area or even a big populated area. hopefully all of those people are out of here in that region. if you are inland in tallahassee, you have to hide from the wind. you don't want to look at your property. you don't want to be in rooms of your house near big trees. know in tallahassee the winds will be the strongest coming from the east to the west so you want to hide on the west side of your house, possibly basement if you have it. a lot of people in florida don't have basements. interior room on the west side of the house. those are the kinds of decisions people have to make. in tallahassee, it's like a tornado is coming through. it's only going to last three or four hours. just like a tornado, go to an interior room. put it over your head in the bathtub with your kids. three hours of just sitting there hearing the train whistle

outside as that hurricane blows through. inland, having been told to evacuate. away from the water, hiding from the wind. we're just hoping this doesn't, you know, jump up to a strong category 4 or 5. then it gets hard to survive that, even in inland areas that haven't evacuated. >> is helene acting the way you expected it to act? >> that's what's amazing about the storm. hey, looks like a storm is going to form. likely going to head up towards the panhandle region. not a lot has changed. this forecast has been pointing at tallahassee give or take 20 miles for four straight days. that's almost unheard of. we always get wiggles, changes, tweaks. the intensity is pretty good too. no one can say, wow, this one surprised me. the only people that will have trouble that weren't prepared were people that weren't believing what we were saying. and that always happens, too. there's always doubters, it's

only a tropical storm. how can this be a major hurricane in 48 hours, but that's what's happened. this storm has undergone rapid intensification two times now in the last two days. some of this is climate change driven. the gulf of mexico is as warm as it's ever been measured. that's the fuel for the storms. once the storms get there, if things are supportive, they can blow up like this. we've seen it now year after year, you know, and it gets into a whole different discussion about climate change, insurance rates, but we'll deal with all of that after we're done with the destruction from this one. >> something folks in florida have to live with. a fact of life there. bill karins, thank you so much. thank you for your blunt warnings for any of our viewers living there with loved ones there. we appreciate you. let me bring in my colleague, nbc correspondent ma rissa parish who's in tampa. that means a whole lot of wind.

tell us what you're seeing and feeling. >> hey, i can confirm what we heard from bill. the wind gusts are picking up, the rain gusts. what we have seen on the ground, we are starting to see that water level rise here. this is something that we have been warned about. we knew it was coming. we were warned of anywhere between 5 to 8 feet of storm surge. here in the tampa bay region there is a lot of shoreline surge area. we have not just the tampa bay river, not gist tampa bay and the hillsboro river, we have the channels. there's also the gulf of mexico on the other side in places like st. petersburg. there's a lot of places where flooding and storm surge can be a real threat. that's why where we are this is one of the mandatory evacuation zones. i want to take you over here. this is along bay shore boulevard. this road is closed down for a reason, because it is prone to flooding. you can see cars over there

blocking off this road. and this is the frustration that we have seen from authorities like the pinilis county sheriff. his frustration is he has not seen people heeding the evacuation orders. he said it is a real problem. especially because at a certain point they are not going to be able to rescue people if they need it. a couple of tips for people if anyone is still trying to make their way out. we know that it is so important to get those electric vehicles out of the way of seawater. that is a real fire hazard. make sure you move those to higher ground. if you haven't already, time is almost out. this water is starting to rise here. another thing, make sure you cut off the main breaker and the gas in your home if it is in a flood zone or storm surge zone prone area. this can also be a fire hazard. authorities urging people. they have been asking people for the last 24 hours to get out, but time is really running out. as you can see, it is really

starting to come down here, nicole. >> marissa, do you have any data on how many people have frustrated authorities? is it more than usual? is it an atypical number of folks that haven't heeded those warnings? >> reporter: hard to say, nicole. we know that pinellas county sheriff said this morning during a press conference, it was too many. he department give any specific numbers. in p his eyes, even a few is too many. he doesn't want to see anybody -- any loss of life here, but we do know that they have done measures, not just mandatory evacuations, they've closed down the bridges. this is something that's typical. we've seen it with hurricane nadalia last year. they closed the howard franklin bridge, the skyway bridge, if you have seen the images, it's not just because of the wind gusts, we saw strong powerful visuals of water lapping over the sides as cars were trying to cross it.

i think authorities have done the best that they could to try to make sure people have been given the warning, but it is up to them of course ultimately whether they want to heed it. this is an example of what authorities are asking people not to do. this is not a good idea. there is a person inside of that boatright now riding out the storm. please do not do that. and, again, authorities have been asking people to heed the evacuation order for now days but at this point we are running out of time so there are shelters that are open. we know that they're still taking people in so please heed the orders before it's too late is what they're asking. >> marissa parra live for us in tampa. thank you so much. please stay safe yourself. joining our coverage, former republican congressman from florida, david jolly. i'll ask because i know our viewers will ask. are you safe? >> we are safe and you will know

it if it changes. if you go a half hour due west from marissa, that's where we are. everything bill reported and marissa is absolutely true. we are finally getting the real hard winds be where you see the trees being bent, you see the lashing of the rain. the story really is for our beach communities the coastal flooding. the evacuations, they should have started yesterday. time is almost out. we are getting the eastern side of this. it is bad. it is real. people have time to evacuate and some are, but for the towns that are going to bear the brunt of this tonight, there is still this window to prevent the loss of life and provide for personal safety. that simply must be done. uninhabitable is the word that has been used. we're going to see that. the area of cedar key, big bend in the state of florida, is less populus than many of the metro

areas that you might see, but i would also point out the economic disparate around the big bend is obvious and significant. a lot of hard working, good working people there, maybe older homes, but the economic disparate is real and it is real for those communities to take another devastating hit from a hurricane. this will hopefully have fewer personal losses though i'm sure we will see the loss of life perhaps from those that didn't heed the warning but the economic impact on the state and those communities will be very significant. >> i lived in tallahassee when i worked for governor jeb bush and tallahassee isn't always or often in a direct path. talk about tallahassee. some of those communities are beautiful. appalachia cola looks like it's outside. they're beautiful beach communities. talk about the folks in that

path. >> tallahassee is not a major metro area. it's kind of a sprawling mid metro area in the state of florida. it is the old seat of our state government and lined with old oak trees and spanish moss. those oak trees become a real danger. there's one, we have an 80-year-old oak outside this window i'm keeping an eye on. you likely will see damage from the very high winds that are predicted. tallahassee sitting more inland so the flooding not likely, but all of those coastal communities certainly is where they're talking about storm surge, anywhere from 8 to 20 feet depending on where you are. right now tallahassee appears to be bearing the brunt of the wind. that really is going to be the real danger in this storm. you also have to look out right now as we were seeing the bands lash there at sarasota and tampa bay. this is also where there's an area, an opportunity for

-- real tornadic activity. this is the part of the storm that could cause those. >> we are hoping for all of our viewers and our loved ones to heed all these warnings and stay safe. david sticks around for the hour. when we come back, with just 40 days to go before election day, the race between vice president kamala harris and the disgraced ex-president may very welcome down to one state. that the campaigns agree on. the biggest battleground state, pennsylvania. governor josh shapiro will be our guest. two top prosecutors on robert mueller's team bring us the inside story. what really happened inside the muller investigation. they write about how russia repeatedly sought to influence the 2016 election. the book is called "interference." he'll be our guest here at the

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so the proud heritage of pittsburgh i so strongly believe reveals the character of the nation, a nation that harnesses the ambitions, the dreams and the aspirations of our people, seizes the opportunities before us because we see them, because we believe in them, and then invents the future. that is what we have always done. and that is what we must now do.

and i know we will. i thank you all for inviting me. may god bless you. may god bless the united states of america. >> that was vice president kamala harris about 24 hours ago in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. in a speech laying out her economic vision for america. the vice president has made at least eight visits to the must-win battleground since launching her campaign. polling averages show harris leading by less than 1%. let's bring into our conversation pennsylvania's governor josh shapiro. how are you doing? >> i'm doing great. good to be with you. >> good to be with you. it strikes me that we got to know you, our audience got to know you when you were pennsylvania's attorney general and when the ex-president was challenging his rather sizeable defeat in the commonwealth. just tell me with an eye toward his antics last time and what you described in a podcast as

essentially a tie in pennsylvania, how is this state preparing for what we know trump will try to do again, claim he won if he lost, potentially cheat? >> yeah. well, as you recall, last time donald trump did everything he could to first try and make it harder for certain people to vote and then after the votes were counted he tried to make it so certain votes weren't tabulated and weren't ultimately reflected in the will of the people. here's the good news, we had a free and fair, safe and secure election. the will of the people was protected and respected and donald trump took us to court 43 times. he went 0-43 and i went 43-0 as the commonwealth's attorney general and we protected pennsylvanians. we knew that he would try his same old tactics again. in fact, we've already begun to see some litigation to try to make it harder for certain

people's votes to count. about nine months ago i put together an election protection task force here in the commonwealth made up of lawyers, made up of election clerks, made up of law enforcement at the local, state, federal level and chaired by our secretary of the commonwealth, al schmid. al is a republican and i'm a democrat. we believe this should be nonpartisan or bipartisan exercises. we are already and have been working, we've been doing tabletop exercises, we are ready to go for whatever donald trump throws our way. and most importantly, to protect the will of the people again here in pennsylvania. and i'm confident we'll again have a free and fair safe and secure election. >> in your tabletops, and i was part of a lot of those when i worked in government after 9/11, it's your job to imagine the stickiest scenarios and solve for them. do you take trump at his word and do you watch the actions of

his ally, speaker of the house, when they sort of dangle their coded language. well, we'll only certify if it's totally free and fair. they count mail-in voting, which is legal, including in pennsylvania, as something sort of on the bubble for them. are you looking at everything they're saying in terms of solving for all scenarios? >> yeah. everything. by the way, i'd point out that mail-in voting here in pennsylvania was made legal with more votes from republican lawmakers than democratic lawmakers in the end. i mean, this should be non-controversial. we want to promote democracy and the way you do that is by encouraging legal eligible voters to participate in the process, but since donald trump said he doesn't like it, then republicans have lined up. look, when it comes to our preparations, our tabletop exercises, we are thinking about everything from the stuff that donald trump and his allies say

to mis and disinformation that make it out in the media. i'm not suggesting msnbc but something that has national reach and infiltrates our politics and people's opinions. we're thinking about litigation and how that can be used as a tool to disenfranchise people. we're thinking about whether or not people are violent in our communities as a way to try to stoke fear or make it harder for people to access the ballot box. we're thinking about all of those things. i want the good people of pennsylvania to know we are prepared. republican and democratic clerks alike in our 67 counties are prepared to do their jobs honorably as they did last time to make sure that we, again, have a free and fair, safe and secure election and that the will of the people is respected. >> the commonwealth is in the news as another place that donald trump has targeted with lies about legal haitian

immigrants. i wonder if you can just tell us what's happening in charleroy and what are you prepared to do to protect your citizens, your constituents? >> yeah, charleroy is a wonderful town in a place called washington county, pennsylvania. for those of you who aren't familiar, that's closer to the kind of ohio/west virginia border in the southwestern corner of our commonwealth. it's a great community with wonderful people. the truth is, they've got some economic challenges. instead of this would be or wanna be president coming to address the economic anxieties and the very real challenges there, instead, he's tried to throw gasoline on a fire in a wonderful community and target certain people in this community. when he targets them, it not only makes those migrants, those legal migrants less safe, it makes us all less safe. tearing down communities is not

something we want from a would be leader of this nation. we want a leader to lift people up and actually address the very serious challenges that they face. you know, nicole, lori and i are blessed with four children. we try to teach them a lot of lessons, but the one underlying lesson is to love thy neighbor. i think that is something that we can all agree is central to how we try and raise our children. we should expect at least that from the person that wants to lead this nation. i want someone like kamala harris who looks to lift everyone up no matter what they look like, where they come from, who they love or who they pray to. not someone like donald trump who tries to tear people down, create others in our society and make us all less safe. charleroi is a great town. washington county, we don't need a wanna be politician to step in and make us less safe. we're going to stand up with one another.

we're going to lift one another up. we're going to address our economic challenges as i'm doing every day as governor, we're going to work with people democrat and republican and the like to do things to help people. >> i mean, i think you're right about the values that any parent, regardless of who they voted for in the past, is passing along to their children, but then how do you explain the closeness of the race in pennsylvania? >> well, look, the race is close and our last two presidential races have come down to 44,000 votes and 80,000 votes, about a point or less in our commonwealth of 13 million people with about 9 million registered voters. the fact that it's close is not a shock. listen, picking up that last yard or two in the red zone to get in the end zone, it's tough here, but here's the thing. i'd rather be us than them. i'd rather be kamala harris than donald trump. here's why. she's beginning to play on his side of the field. she's been in rural communities

competing for votes. she's someone who i think has an economic message that's beginning to resonate with people who might not have been open to hearing it just a few weeks ago. she is someone who promises more economic opportunity and more freedom. donald trump on his watch, we had less freedom and fewer jobs in the commonwealth of pennsylvania. i think that there is a stark choice in this race, and while it is close, i'd rather be us than them. >> you assembled an ideologically diverse coalition. you had many high profile republicans choosing you enthusiastically over doug mastriano. she has done the same thing. would you deploy some of the republicans that have endorsed her in places like erie? how did you deploy your

republicans for shapiro to win in the numbers that you won? >> well, look, i think it's really important to understand you're going to be a governor, in kamala harris's case, president, for all pennsylvanians, all-americans. one of the morn ways we do that is by showing we have support from rural, urban, suburban communities, men, women, people of all colors, people who come from all different places. and of course people from different political parties. i think at a time where we've become so polarized politically, showing you can reach across the aisle, you can govern in a way that keeps them as part of an inclusive coalition, something we've been able to do here in pennsylvania, i think that's critically important. i also think it's important that we understand we don't have to agree with an elected official on every single issue to vote for them because we want people

who are honorable. we want people who pass the basic test of loving thy neighbor. we want someone who actually gives a damn about all of us, not just focused on themselves, someone who's trying to lift up communities, not tear them down. there's a clear contrast in this race, and i think the more kamala harris can lean on people who maybe historically wouldn't have considered voting for a democrat but are now, i think that's really, reallypowerful. it's something i have done and i would encourage her to do it here in the commonwealth and across the country. >> what does it look -- when i was working in politics ohio was the battleground. in the final weeks, i mean, you -- this is how old i was, but the buses would cross each other, right? the kerry and bush buses would cross each other. what does your state feel like

between the ads, high profile surrogates and your activity. tell us what would be helpful. i have this fantasy of dick cheney, mark cuban and tom brady on a bus tour. tell me what you would prescribe. >> that would be a wild bus ride. we are no strangers to being really the center of democracy. i mean, hell, it was 248 years ago after one of my predecessors, ben franklin, signed the constitution. he walked out on the cobblestoned streets of philadelphia and he was greeted by a woman who looked him in the eye and said, mr. franklin, what do we have now, a monarchy or a republic? franks lynn looked at her and he said we have a republican if you can keep it. >> yeah. >> i think those five -- five words, i think it is, those words have really defined our

democracy. it's strengthened our union over time. we've made progress, and the progress we've made has been because ordinary americans have rose up, they've demanded more, they've sought justice and they fought for freedom. sometimes the fights have been on the battlefield, sometimes it has been here in our communities, but we've always perfected our union working together. here in pennsylvania we understand that unique relationship we have with our democracy, with where it all started and, yes, we are the swingiest of all swing states right now. we take that responsibility very seriously. pennsylvania picks presidents. pennsylvanians are discerning and thoughtful. as i said before, it's tough to get that last yard here, but i believe kamala harris is poised to do just that. so i want her to keep showing up as she has been and letting pennsylvanians kind of come out and learn more about her. kick the tires. understand more about how their lives are going to be better

under her as our president and reminding people of the chaos that donald trump brought, the fewer freedoms that donald trump brought to our communities. i think as people see that clear contrast and they're reminded of the responsibility we have dating back to that conversation ben franklin had with his fellow philadelphian, i think you'll see pennsylvanians once again rise to the occasion. >> as you know, all eyes will be on pennsylvania. you are going to be sick of all of us in another 40 days. thank you for taking the time to talk to us today. >> we love it. >> thank you. >> we love it. i'll be looking out for that bus ride. >> i tell you, in the end, you know what it looks like. they're all heading to the same corners of the commonwealth. thank you so much. thank you for spending time with us. >> see you soon. when we come back, the inside story of robert mueller's investigation into russia's interference in the 2016 election on behalf of donald trump and why, as muller

himself, has warned russia is ready to do whatever it takes to do it all over again and elect trump. that's next. thursday night football on prime. it's on. ready to have some fun? yeah, let's do it. the dallas cowboys take on the new york giants, as thursday night football is on. stream thursday night football. only on prime.

i'm not old enough to vote yet, but i learned how one out of six of us will someday be raped. so please think about me when you vote. i learned how our freedom to have an abortion was taken away... even in cases of rape or incest, even to travel to get an abortion. please think about me. you know who got rid of roe v wade. now women are being refused lifesaving care at hospitals,

and politicians are trying to ban birth control. please think about me. my parents call me their miracle daughter because i was born with ivf. but ivf could be banned, too. do they think we're less than human? do they think we can't make decisions? about our own bodies? about our own lives? when you vote, please think about me. and me. -and me. because the politician who got rid of roe v wade, he couldn't care less.

americans just got an urgent warning that 40 days out from the election should through all the political noise like a bull horn. quote, it is evident that americans have not learned the lessons of russia's attack on our democracy in 2016. quote, we were not prepared then and despite many efforts of

dedicated people across the government, we are not prepared now. this threat deserves the attention of every american. russia attacked us before and will do so again. just on the face of it that should be enough to keep all of us up at night, but even more so when you consider the source. former special counsel robert mueller. that warning appears in the new forward of a new book by three of robert mueller's top lieutenants, his top prosecutors. their new book pulls the curtain back for the first time on the inner workings of the mueller investigation, a retrospective with chilling implications, with the high stakes political moment we find ourselves in today and still. joining us now two of the co-authors of "interference, the inside story of trump, russia and the mueller investigation." aaron zably and andrew goldstein who helped lead the obstruction, that's volume 2 of the probe.

let me start with you on why it took so long to tell the inner story of the mueller probe. it seems like robert mueller himself, who i had the privilege of serving with in government, was maligned by bill barr before the substance of the investigation was even made available to the public. >> it took us a little while to convince bob that this was the right thing to do. in the end we think that there are lessons to be learned from the decisions that we made during this investigation. we think personally from bob's leadership and the way that he led us with integrity and forcing us to focus on speed, on principles throughout the entire life of the investigation, and i think after five years this is the right time. we're coming into a new election where russia is interfering again as you just said, and be so a lot of what we're talking about now has special relevance right now. >> the entire part of the

investigation you oversaw, volume 2, would any of that be the substance of any investigation into donald trump with the cumulative immunity decision in place? >> possibly not. the supreme court's decision granting wide immunity to presidential conduct, it is -- it might not just limit the ability to prosecute a president for the kinds of acts that we talked about that he took towards our investigation, but you might not even be able to do an investigation at all. you can only use criminal tools to investigate where you actually have the ability to apply the criminal law. the supreme court is right, one possible edification of this, when a president abuses his power or her power to go after enemies, those are kinds of things that you might not ever be able to investigate. >> and what? and if it's donald trump again, i think i know every -- the ins

and outs of everything that was scrutinized, firing jim comey to everything don mcgann shed light on, what would that mean? >> it could mean he could go after his enemies and use the justice department in ways to launch prosecutions, launch investigations. but there are a lot of safeguards in place. there are courts. there are juries that could put an end to some of that, but even launching an investigation is a thing that can devastate somebody's life. and if the president has sort of open season to be able to do that and would never be able to face not even criminal repercussions on the back end, but not even an investigation where people would know what he's doing, that's really problematic. >> one of the smears that bill barr and some of his lieutenants leveled even before the report was out was that it was convoluted, that the results that robert mueller couldn't say that he didn't not commit crimes but it didn't clearly say that he did, what's your answer to

that? >> well, the rules we were operating under had implications and we were trying to navigate them. point one is there's an office of legal counsel opinion that says basically you can't charge a sitting president. we had to contend with that as a department of justice. there's a provision in the constitution that says the mechanism for making formal accusations against a sitting president is the impeachment process. so within that framework we were trying to navigate and understand -- and chart a path that would be principled and be we thought the thing to do was to outline what you just outlined and then spell out the conduct in hopefully clear and sober fashion. i hear them that it's convoluted, but we were contending with a particular constitutional structure and with a particular set of policies and rules in the department and this is where we landed. >> did you ever at a human level feel you followed the rules and

bill barr used the political tools against you for doing that? >> well, i think ultimately, the book goes through this at some length in the final chapters of it, we -- that's more or less the conclusion we drew. we charted the path i just described. we tried to adhere to the principles of the department of justice, wrote a sober report and delivered it to the attorney general. we understood from the attorney general's testimony when he was going through his confirmation hearings that he was committed to transparency and that what we found would be what the public would see. we had other reasons to believe that's what would happen. we delivered our report and he withheld it. then he released his own summary that in fundamental ways mischaraterized where we landed. as we say in the book, the only conclusions we can draw from that, as the politically appointed attorney general, he was trying to protect the president. >> so he lied about what was in the report. i read the whole report, read the second volume a couple of

times, maybe erroneously it seems like it wasn't as erroneous as it was, it seems that they were correctly afraid of what you uncovered. there were six acts of criminal conduct if trump was anyone but the president. >> bill barr's summary understated what we had to say. take being russian election interference, he points out that we found that the russians interfered, but he didn't state in full what had happened. he omitted the fact that the russians had weighed in on behalf of trump and against hillary clinton. he also omitted that the trump campaign planned media events around russia -- releases of russian stolen information. it understated the significance of russian election interference. and then on the obstruction investigation, he omitted any description of the president's conduct. so i don't know, afraid or not,

but certainly understated and didn't -- didn't explain what had happened and what the cost of that was when the public was paying closest attention, they didn't actually get the full facts. in my view, democracy can't function without facts. it's important that these facts be understood. >> not getting full facts. did he lie about the 23-month mueller investigation? >> i think i would stick with the word we used. he mischaraterized. >> wasn't that the problem. the words were never blunt enough to get the public's attention. >> i think as a prosecutor, you need to speak with as much precision as you can, and in this instance we -- >> were the headlines true? the headlines the next morning, trump exonerated? >> that's not an accurate statement about our work. we actually say the words explicitly in the book, we did not exonerate him. we didn't find that no crime had been committed, we just reached no judgment about whether he had a crime. even uttering those words,

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during this period, jim -- another prosecutor -- would receive frequent assurances it was still a go, and the president was eager to speak with us so he could clear his name. in interthey interviewed the principal subjects as a final other near-final step. because we were far along in our investigation, we would take the interview whenever it was available. obviously, that never happens. what happens in the intervening time? >> at least for the first couple months, the president's lawyers were telling us, he wants to sit with us, he's ready, and they told us they thought that was the key for us going away as quickly as possible. we would meet with him, per raid us nothing was there, and we could clear the president. as our investigation proceeded, as more people cooperated, and that became public, he announced more charges, the president's

lawyers changed their tune, and told us they started making some excuses. the january 27th date, i think that was suddenly a time of davos. we want he would be happy to travel to davos and do the interview there. ultimately they told us no. the president changed his counsel to rudy giuliani, and after that, we obviously had a long period of back and forth, and ultimately, unlike every other president who's caught up in a president like this, president trump refused to meet with us. >> i guess it's rudy prerudy with the hair dye, but what was dealing with him like? >> we had one meeting with him with bob, that they asked for, when they first came on board. at the beginning of that immediate, bob mueller made it clear what we were going to talk

about that meeting was going to stay in the room, so we could have a relationship with trust with the president's lawyers. they repeated that at the end. giuliani at the end said, of course, we won't be saying anything about what happened here. very soon afterwards, giuliani was on tv talking about -- and mischaracterizing what happened in the meeting. after that, we had discussions with mueller. he agreed that he was not going to meet with him again, it was a matter of trust. for us, the president had other counsel beside giuliani, who were former prosecutors who we thought we could deal with, so we tried to deal with them and deal with rudy as little as possible. >> i met robert mueller after 9/11, when he was tasked with changing the entire culture of the fbi. in the words i think of president george w. bush, never again failing to connect the dots was the mission. it was when memos were coming

out with bits of information that might have warned about something like 9/11. he was inside and outside of government viewed as heroic. i believe this morning president trump stitched together parts of his testimony to mock him. it pained me, to watch his treatment in the political moment from men like rudy giuliani. it was hard to call him a man. i view him more of a clown and carnival barker. what pain did you feel as this men who should have been revered. >> i had not met bob before this. aaron could talk more about that, but for me, one reason i dame to work with mueller is because i revered him. he is an american hero. i also knew if i was going to be devoting around-the-clock energy

to an investigation, i wanted to do it for somebody who i believe in and who was going to do it the right way. look, the criticism of us and bob throughout the investigation, it was kind of ridiculous, and he, better than anybody, is good at tuning it out, but it was unfair. i think, in part, the way that aaron talked about, the way the attorney general released our findings, and effectively concealed from the american people most of what we had come out with, that further served to undermine our work and bob's work. >> not as a prosecutor, but as a patriot and someone who has served someone like bob mueller, what do you feel when you feel when you see trump running away with everything you uncovered about his conduct as a president. >> i don't so much think of it in terms of donald trump and the current election, as i worry that the public has not

understood that there was election interference, and it's happening again now. that's mostly the lens i think about it. i want to add on to andrew's answers. when i think about the attacks on bob, when he was special counsel, i don't think of it as much as concern for bob. he can let that roll off his back, and he's fine. but he was a man who served as special counsel with integrity, humility, with respect for the law, and i think that was special, so mostly what i feel, how can it be that the leader of the country and other parts of the executive branch can attack a prosecutors who is adhering to the highest principles of the country? that's where i feel the sense of loss, that that's possible. >> and all too possible again. >> right. >> in november. the timing couldn't be more

appropriate and important and needed. thank you for writing it and for being here. the book is called "interference" the inside story of trump, russia and mueller. every page is as relevant today as when the investigation took place. don't miss it. we'll be right back. place. don't miss it. we'll be right back. when. we can keep working! ♪ synth music ♪ >> woman: safelite came to us. >> tech: hi, i'm kendrick. >> woman: with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> vo: schedule free mobile service now at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further! at safelite.com. safe step's best offer, just got better!

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