♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> and mike pence, i hope you're going to stand up for the good of our constitution and for the good of our country.

and if you're not, i'm going to be very disappointed in you. i'll tell you right now. a new filing from special counsel jack smith reveals bomb shell never before seen evidence about donald trump and the election interference case. also tonight, the damming nonanswer when jd vance refused to say that trump lost that 2020 election he tried to steal. plus, while vance was acting normal at the debate, trump was spiraling out of control, with increasingly confused, nonsensical, meandering remarks. but we begin tonight with the 2020 election. and special counsel jack smith's newest legal filing that lays out in clear terms how candidate trump in his personal capacity lost that 2020 presidential election and resorted to crimes to try to stay in office any way. this brand new filing came after leonard leo's six blessed donald trump with broad immunity as a

former president for official acts taken while in office. with this document, the special counsel is trying to convince u.s. district judge tonya chutkan that trump's crimes are not protected by presidential immunity because they were committed as a private citizen, or as a candidate for office. while we have known about the alleged crimes, today's filing outlines stunning new details of how trump and his allege coconspirators perpetrated this crime against all americans. according to smith, what fueled the multiple crimes was trump's deseepts and desperate efforts to use knowingly false claims of election fraud to disrupt the electoral process. trump knew the election was close. he knew it would take time to count ballots. and that his lead would vanish. privately he told the vice president's chief of staff, that he would simply declare victory before all the ballots were counted. and every lie after would work towards the same goal -- ending

the american democratic process. according to smith, in the immediate post election period while the defendant claimed fraud without proof, his private operative sought to create chaos. to that point, smith explains how a campaign employee who is at a ballot-counting location in detroit, michigan, ordered a colleague to, quote, give me options to file litigation, even if it's b.s. the colleague then suggested that there was about to be unrest, reminiscent of the brooks brother's riot, a violent effort to stop the vote count in florida after the 2000 presidential election. trump campaign staffer responded, make them riot. do it. a few weeks later, a lawyer for the republican national committee told the rnc spokesperson that one of trump's nevada lawsuits regarding dead voters had little chance of succeeding because the claims were substantiating, that

accurate, legal analysis was forwarded to a trump -- that accurate legal analysis was forward to a trump white house staffer five days before trump amplified the lies in the lawsuit. that same rnc lawyer was highly critical of rudy giuliani, who was trump's personal lawyer and spearheading the very public legal campaign boosting false allegations in court. the rnc lawyer said, what giuliani and others are doing is a joke. and they're getting laughed out of court. according to smith, rudy didn't like that and threatened to have trump fire him. days later, rudy called rnc chair ronna mcdaniel and had him relieved of his duties. all these examples link individuals who were working on behalf of trump, in his private capacity as a candidate. and they all knowingly lied to undermine the election with the goal of de-certifying on january 6th, which brings us to former

vice president mike pence. in this newly unsealed document smith explains to chutkan how he intends to prove that conversations between trump and pence were not conversations about pence's official responsibilities but rather in private capacities as running mates. this will be a key argument since pence was a primary witness to trump's illegal activity. currently cloaked in protection thanks to the leonard leo six. what judge chutkan decides will determine if the case survives. but what you decide at the ballot box will determine if donald trump will ever be held accountable for his crimes against our democracy. joining me now is katie phang, trial attorney and host of "the katie phang" show. hugo lowell correspondent for "the guardian" and michael steele, the former chairman of

the rnc. katie, i want to start with you. here is the filing. i've been reading through it as fast as i can. i'm sure you're got an lot further than i have and understand it a lot more thoroughly. tell us what is new here and what is new here that judge chutkan will have to deal with in determining whether these are official acts? >> yes, joy. it's a 165-page filing. we knew that. we knew that because previously jack smith as special counsel indicated that he had complied with instructions to be able to file a redacted version of the document. and it had to be filed under seal. meaning we could not initially see it because until judge chutkan made a determination, none of us will be able to get the contents. frankly the redactions are not really a lot. and what judge chutkan did was say, wholesale, i agree with you, jack smith. what you are seeking is not only legal but appropriate in this case. what's interesting is donald trump didn't disagree with jack smith. he wanted further redactions and hypocritically because he said

he was in fear for the safety of prospective witnesses, et cetera, the hypocrisy abounds. most importantly what we see here is a very tight, very well-written document that allows the american public to fully explore the extent of the criminality of donald trump. to your point, we knew that crimes were being committed. but you had to operate f you're jack smith, within the confines of the supreme court. and you had to tee it up in a way that allows judge chutkan to do your job to make factual findings as to the conduct of donald trump. and the law is clear. and what jack smith does is he weaves in the law. but you got 85 pages, joy, of straight-up facts and evidence as supported by the appendix, meaning the exhibits that were filed by jack smith. but after those 85 pages, jack smith makes it clear that the law does not allow a private citizen or a candidate for office to be able to get

immunity for that conduct. and so there is new information that is contained within this filing. but what's not new is theematically the idea that donald trump would stop at nothing, would commit crimes to ensure that he cheated the american people of their vote in 2020. >> right. i mean, hugo, you can go through it. the smith filing, white house staffer says he overheard trump say, win or lose, you have to fight like hell. there's p15, white house aide, and trump's body man in the west wing name is nick luna, testifying before federal grand jury in 2023. luna overheard trump said to melania, daughter and sonl and jared and ivanka while aboard marine one, smith considers the statement to be private. he heard trump overtell family members it doesn't matter if you win or lose the election, you have to fight like hell. what this indicates to my reading of it is that donald trump was told numerous times he lost the election. he knew he lost the election but that his strategy going in is

i'm just going to say i won. >> look, among the new parts of the evidence that was presented in this brief was, number one, trump was talking with all sorts of people, pre-election, october 2020, that he was going to do this, that he was going to sew doubt in the outcome of the election regardless of what happened. if he won, great, he won. if he lost, this was preplanned. jack smith goes to great lents saying this is clearly a conspiracy if even before the election you are going to say you're going to basically say i won any way. that was number one. number two, there is this theme that jack smith comes back to over and over again in trying to show that they can continue with this case to trial. and that is trump consistently used other people to do his dirty work. and if you're using other people, private actors, to do your bidding, to get, for instance, pressure pence to object to the certification on january 6th, that is a crime. and by the way, that's not in the confines of the official

conduct of the presidency. >> yeah. >> because presidents don't get private actors to go do their things to commit crimes. that's a theme that comes other and over. nick luna, for instance s a really interesting example you bring up. nick luna now is on jd vance's team, back with the trump campaign after taking some time out. so these people are coming back into the fold. and this is a reminder of just what they went through and what the situation was in 2020. >> and by the way, michael steele, the pence part of it is really interesting because we have all of these numerous instances after the election in which pence is sort of walking donald trump like he's a 2-year-old in saying, you know, it's fine that you want to do your lawsuits, you want to do your thing. but at a certain point, big boy, you have to try to be a big boy and admit that you lost. and he keeps trying to sort of walk him gently to this point. to which donald trump responds by saying, if people want to hang mike pence, they should just do it because he's too weak to help me. >> yeah. in many respects that's probably one of the more stunning

moments. there are many. that's saying something. because you have trump being told what's happening. and he's basically, well, i don't care. so what. so what. so what they want to hang him. good riddance. >> yeah. >> he didn't do anything for me. he didn't help me. he didn't do what i wanted him to do. so that is very, very damning. it gives you a sense of exactly going back to what hugo was saying, this space that donald trump had created long before we get to january 6th. and with which he laid down the predicate for what was going to happen that day. that he was so callous in his thinking that he didn't care. he would never care. when you start out by saying, well, i know you're telling me that -- you know, this is the way the process is. i know you're telling me, you

know, mike pence or legal team or fill in the blank, what you think this is. but i'm telling you what it's going to be. it doesn't matter if i win or lose. because this is going to be the outcome i want. and so i think that what you see jack smith doing here, saying, all right. you've tried to screw with this case at every turn. and we're here now because your lawyers wanted to protract this thing out and push it back, hoping that the whole thing would just blow up under its own weight in the judicial system. but he carved out that space. right? it's like this raging storm of appeals and the b.s. that jack smith had to go through. he said he went through and carved out all of these pieces. and he is intricately linked them together to show, all right, you want to talk about personal acts? you want to talk about

nonpresidential acts? well here they are, judge chutkan. and supreme court, you can choke on this. because here it is. >> yeah. >> it's amazing what's in those 160 pages. >> let me just -- december 21 private lunch pence encouraged the defendant not to look at the election as a loss, just an intermission, filed later in the day by a private discussion in the oval office which the defendant asked pence what do you think we should do? pence said after we exhausted every legal process in the courts and congress, if we still come up short, the defendant should take a bow. jack smith claims these conversations like these hugo don't relate to pence's role. this seems obvious. because you know, what john roberts essentially did is to say, total immunity and to try to get trump out of this problem. but the problem is, when you just read the plain facts of what trump was doing, there's nothing about that that's the job of the president. >> yeah. >> or the vice president. >> 100%. and all the way through the 165 pages jack smith goes to great lengths to say, look, the

supreme court laid out this test. this is the law of the land now. presidential immunity exists. but as long as trump was acting as a candidate for office, everything he does under that moniker is not covered by presidential immunity. so he goes through the list. he goes through january 4, for instance, when trump meets with pence and john eastman and they exclude the white house counsel from that meeting, as they're trying to pressure pence to object to the certification. jack smith goes there is no clearer definition of private conduct when you're excluding the white house counsel and having a personal lawyer. same again on january 5 on a phone call, trump and pence and john eastman trying to pressure pence. again, they exclude other people from getting on the call. only trump personal attorney on the call. >> katie, what are the chances this gets appealed, somehow this goes through the process, judge chutkan makes a ruling saying this trial can move forward. does this wind up in the hands of john roberts? >> what jack smith did is he gave it all.

he put it all out there in this filing because he knows what's going to happen is chutkan is almost 100% agree with his assessments set forth by him. and because of that, despite trump's protestations otherwise, it's going to get appealed. the decision by chutkan will go to the d.c. circuit. the d.c. circuit already determined that there's no immunity for donald trump in this capacity, meaning there was this whole issue of misconduct. so now you have to get it back to the supreme court. but what jack smith did which is so beautiful and elegant, is he cites to amy coney barrett when it comes to fake elector schemes and the fact that she said that cannot be private conduct when your doing this with the fake electors. and the other thing that really hurts donald trump is the following -- two things, one, there's forensics on his phone that we're learning about that has been done by jack smith that was included this n this filing. and mark meadows. tried to remove this from state court to federal court. findings from mark meadows

conduct done wasn't official is being boot strapped by jack smith into this filing to show that what donald trump did, especially in georgia, was not official conduct and so he doesn't get immunity. >> our panel will stick with us for much more on this damning trump filing and in light of this news, one debate answer from jd vance that's truly concerning to our democracy. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. when we started feeding bogie the farmer's dog, he lost so much weight. pre-portioned packs makes it really easy to keep him lean and healthy. in the morning, he flies up the stairs and hops up on my bed. in the past, he would not have been able to do any of those things.

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he is still saying he didn't

lose the election. did he lose the 2020 election? >> tim, i'm focussed on the future. did kamala harris sensor americans from speaking their mind in the wake of the 2020 covid situation? >> that is a damning non-answer. >> following last night's debate we are still facing a crisis in politics and government in the form of a trump/vance ticket the latter was unable to acknowledge the simple truth that joe biden won the 2020 election. back with me is katy fang, hugo lowell and michael steele. vance presented as normal and less weird than he normally does. but he's still saying the same thing donald trump is. he cannot utter the words donald trump lost the 2020 election. therein lies the problem. it's clear that if he's in any position to hang on to the presidency for the rest of trump's natural life, he'll help. >> oh, he absolutely will help. he is -- you know, i think it

should be clear to everyone now why donald trump ultimately listened to don jr. and eric in selected him over the other choices that donald trump was leaning towards because he does dress up nicely. he does bring that sharp, yale-y sophisticated air. i'm smart, i'm debonair, i'm cool, right? >> i don't know about cool. cool is taking it too far, darling. >> well, cool -- >> he not cool. >> cool in maga land it just runs different. it runs different. >> fair. >> but he fits the profile that softens the harshness of donald trump, that softens the ugliness of the donald trump. and he dresses it up nicely. and is clarifying. but here is the rub, in that moment, when you are asked the question did donald trump lose the 2020 election and you can't answer that question and you start to b.s., that tells you

everything you need to know. and that confirms for me, as i said last night after that debate, that he's unfit for the office, both of them. and the country needs to be aware of that. >> let's play what tim walz, governor walz said about mike pence last night. >> he lost the election. this is not a debate. it's not -- it's not anything anywhere other than in donald trump's world. because look, when mike pence made that decision to certify that election, that's why mike pence isn't on this stage. >> hugo, that's why mike pence isn't on this stage. from the filing now, the defendant further revealed the private nature of his desperate conduct as a candidate, rather than as a in the an exchange that the government does not plan to use at trial he had with an aide p15:00 shortly after the 2:24 p.m. tweet after receiving a phone call alerting him that pence not take on the a secure location this person, p15 rushed

to the dining room to inform the defendant in hopes that the defendant would take action to ensure pence's safety. instead, after p15 delivered the news, the defendant looked at him and said only, so what. the reality is that jd vance has to understand he niece a job right now where donald trump doesn't care if he lives or dies, he just has to be obedient. >> but he's internalized that and you saw that on the debate stage when jd says, oh -- when jd doesn't say whether or not trump won or lost the election, that's because he knows trump's watching and he has to be obedient and fill that surrogate spot and did everything right by trump and that's what's key about it. i think jd has morphed into this role where he knows exactly what's expected of him, what trump wants and how he needs to succeed to get in front in maga world and trump's eyes. that's what's important. >> he used to say trump is hitler but now he is saying, i got to get with the program. katie, from the filing again, this is the 2:24 p.m. tweet. this is the tweet that actually

happened during the insurrection. mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our constitution. giving states a chance to certify a corrected set of facts. not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones to previously certify, usa demands the truth. when he tweeted that he understood there was no alternative set of facts, he lost the election. that's the thing that rings the clearest in this filing. he knew this was b.s. >> yeah. what's pretty gulling, i think, and the audacity from donald trump is the pressure campaign on mike pence, putting aside how horrific it is that they could erect gallows outside of the capitol intended for mike pence and come for him and his family, as we all know -- but for the bravery of the u.s. capitol police and other law enforcement would have probably happened to mike pence and others. i think the pressure campaign is particularly horrific and jd vance, you know, listen, to

hugo's point, he, quote, internalized the risk. maybe. it's informed consent at this point because if something happens to jd vance, oh well and so what to donald trump. but i think what jack smith had done as well, though, he anticipated the arguments, right, joy? he put forth the idea that the supreme court said there is kind of realm of immunity afforded the conversations and communications concerning the certification itself by mike pence. but he's kind of end run trump's arguments by saying as running mates the conversations and discussions they're having is not immunized conduct. so a lot of the pressure campaign that donald trump did as a private candidate for office is not going to be protected. but you know, joy, the thing that the 30,000 foot -- we have to remind ourselves that was the point of your question, why go to all this effort, donald trump, to pressure state officials, mike pence and others if you had won, right? like if you really -- why would you go through all of this, criminal conduct, if you had

won. you knew the entire time. remember, joy, we talked about other crimes. premeditation elevates your level of exposure as a criminal defendant when you commit a homicide. the premeditation we saw by donald trump, as hugo noted, came weeks before the november 2020 election. he was laying the foundation to screen it. he's doing it now. america, pay attention. he's doing it right now. >> yep. >> he's unoriginal, folks. he does the same damn stuff over and other again and playing the same record over and over again. we have to pay attention because he's already screaming election fraud even though nobody has done it yet, right? >> that's right. >> so i think it's important for people to realize jack smith prepared for what is eventually going to come down the pipeline legally but letting america know that you do what jd vance has done, which is kind of give this guy a pass, no problem. >> michael steele is laying the groundwork and very quickly, very quickly you and hugo, he's not working, acting like a normal campaign is happening. he's just planning to say he won

again. >> well, and not only that, but he's already made it very clear, he's told his voters, you don't have to worry about voting. >> right. >> i mean, this is why you're seeing the ground game across the country for republicans be so topsy turvy because there is no infrastructure because donald trump is basically said using the rnc vehicle don't worry. we got this. yeah, to katie's point, the predicate is laid out. the mens rea is very clear of his intent about this election. >> he's ground game is nonexistent. he's just planning to do this again. >> yeah. look, all of the rnc's resources were diverted starting in march of this year to go to election integrity. we have been reporting for a long time that trump himself has not invested any resources in the ground game and instead outsourced to a number of super pacs. >> elon musk. >> originally to outsource to pacs. they couldn't do it. the only person who has a pac running, america pac.

they have 3 to 400 people in the battleground states. they have that. here is the problem, they have done this extremely late. missing or missed contacts. and number two, the trump campaign is so reliant on elon musk, idea of what a second trump administration might look like. musk articulated ambitions to be in the cabinet. that's the background. if trump wins, no small part due to musk, that elevates musk's influence in trump's orbit and that's what's the most scary. >> he is the most scary but only one of them. we're talking about the stephen miller's the elon musks, the absolute freaks of the far right would be running the united states. >> musk replaced the rnc. >> absolutely. >> musk replaced the rnc. >> no normals, no mike pence, nomore mall republicans, all the far, far extreme far fascist friendly right, be afraid. katie phang, hugo lowell, michael steele thank you all very much. coming up, something else more consequential than the debate yesterday with the tocht

republican ticket the aforementioned donald trump delivering an absolutely unhinged rally performance. even for him. we'll be right back. back. leo! [whistling] ever since we introduced him to the farmer's dog,

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♪♪ while jd vance was trying his hardest last night to put lipstick on the pig that is donald trump, the man of the top of the ticket gave his own

performance, showing that he is more prepared to move into a nursing home rather than the white house. mixing up world leaders and countries, rambling incoherently and making statements more intune to an elderly man yelling at the birds from a park bench. >> they said that we have to guard the united nations, which meant the president of north korea, who is basically trying to kill me. so they want to guard him but they don't want to guard me. can you imagine that your child leaves for school and comes home and their gender has been changed. i don't want to get into the details. but it's -- not even believable. inflation is devastation. inflation is country busting and breaks countries. look at germany from centuries ago. kamala and the democrat party want to keep black and hispanic children trapped in family government. these people are among the worst in the world. they come from the congo in africa. many people from the congo. i don't know what that is, but

they come out of jails in the congo. >> do you trust the process this time around. >> i'll let you know in about 33 days. >> do you believe that you should have been tougher on iran after they had launched ballistic missiles in 2020 on u.s. forces in iraq leaving more than 100 u.s. soldiers injured? >> just so you understand, there was nobody ever tougher on iraq. they had no money with me. >> are there hospitals in the school? okay. but probably the most damning remarks from trump yesterday, from the man who is running to once again become the commander in chief, was what he said in response to that reporter's last question about the more than 100 american soldiers who were injured, dozens who were diagnosed with traumatic brain injuries, following a missile strike against a u.s. base in iraq at the end of trump's term

in office. >> so, first of all, injured, what does injured mean? because you have a headache because the bombs never hit the fort. they called us and told us we have to retaliate only in the sense that -- and you know, i think people know this. we have to retaliate. but we're not going to hit anybody. just keep your people inside the military base. that's what happened. but they had to do that. and i thought it was a very nice thing because they didn't want us to retaliate again. >> but trump trump's deranged antics weren't just limited to his bizarre remarks last night, they extended to his reaction to hurricane helene, including promoting a go fund me, created by his campaign's national audience director on his fake twitter. that was only after he visited affected areas in georgia and lied about the federal response to the storm. and north carolina self

proclaimed black nazi, mark robinson, followed trump's lead attacking roy cooper's response. which seems odd since while helene approached north carolina last week, governor sought an emergency declaration to mobilize emergency services. mark robinson was the only one of nine state executives to not vote on cooper's request. he told reporters that vote was going to pass with or without his vote, so absolutely was inconsequential. it's the laziest approach to governance imaginable but on brand for a republican who wants to be governor but thinks goth is the problem. meanwhile, the actual adults running the country are taking on the devastation firsthand. and that's coming up. coming up s is strong enamel. nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients. try pronamel mouthwash.

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president joe biden and vice president kamala harris got separate first-hand looks at the catastrophic damage from hurricane helene today. vice president harris visited augusta, georgia, and met with residents and toured affected areas there. >> particularly devastating in terms of the loss of life that this community has experienced. the loss of normalcy and the loss of critical resources. and there is real pain and trauma that has resulted because of this -- this hurricane. >> the death toll from hurricane

helene risen to at least 183 people across six states. nearly half of those deaths were in north carolina, where entire communities have been destroyed. president biden traveled to north carolina and south carolina to survey helene-impacted areas by air, in part because roads are so damaged. the president also ordered 1,000 active duty soldiers to assist the state's national guard. joining me now is ashley, former communications director for vice president kamala harris and david jolly, former congressman and msnbc political analyst. i do want to start with you, first, ashley, because you've worked with the vice president. you know her. this is sort of an important demonstration of what presidential power and authority looks like and compassion looks like and of course, president biden, this is sort of his sweet spot. what do you think the impact will be of vice president harris making those visits to augusta today? >> yeah, joy. i think this also demonstrates

really leadership. what we have seen over the past two or so -- three or so days is really a tell in two different leadership styles. you have former president trump, who has a pen shan't for exploiting people's pain, loss of life, devastation for his own political purposes. georgia is the latest example. when hurricane matthew hit north carolina he denied the democratic governor 99% of the what the state needed to recover from that devastation. he also mockingly threw towels in puerto rico when they were trying to recover from devastation there. and you see now the very contrast the vice president is on the ground, meeting with those affected, delivering food, wrapping her arms around the people on the ground there and making a point that we're here for the long haul. that's what real leadership looks like. joy, i will say it's not lost on the american people. there's a recent poll, cnn poll, that shows that the majority of americans think she has the

right temperament, the empathy and the skills that they want in a president. i mean, by double digits. temperament is double digit she is beating out donald trump. and that's the vice president. that's what i know about the vice president. i think that is her greatest contrast against donald trump. i think that's what makes her the right leader for this moment. she sees people. she's got a heart for their circumstances, for their dreams and their hopes for their lives. and i'm really hoping that the campaign, as i said op-ed recently, really hope the campaign can put this on full display. >> yeah. and talking -- sort of -- talking to people, intermingling with people is very natural to vice president harris. david jolly, as a former floridian, i also have to recognize that florida was also in the path. it was the first stop for helene. i want to first of all make sure that your family and all of your community are okay. >> our family is.

our community is not. we lost 12 people here in our hometown. and many of the homes in our neighborhood, their life's possessions are now sitting on the street waiting for trash trucks to pick up their belongings. water rising two, three, four feet in many homes. and beach communities forever altered, forever changed. and i think this is where, you know, the audacity of donald trump and some of the republicans to criticize joe biden and vice president harris and the administration in this moment is really just disgusting to be honest. i promise you this, that families that are recovering, the towns that just opened in the last 24 hours that have been shuttered since the hurricane hit the people who are rebuilding, who are trying to find their belongings, those who have lost lives of loved ones and funerals haven't been had yet, nobody is talking about joe biden, vice president harris or donald trump. donald trump needs to shut his mouth when he's talking politics

in this moment. it's a gross moment for donald trump. but as ashley said, this is someone who capitalizes on people's loss and on their grief. and what you're seeing from president biden and vice president harris is the traditional role of a comforter in chief. someone who is providing a personal canvas of the loss ensuring that federal resources are provided to the states. they are trying to coordinate with governors and local communities, set up fema shelters and fema response centers and donald trump is trying to play politics with it. we saw this during his administration, when he suggested trying to use a nuclear weapon to stop a hurricane or using the sharpie to try to suggest he knew where it was going when science told him something else. all to protect his own vanities. this is a very disgusting moment for donald trump. and i think people in impacted communities from florida to georgia to north carolina see it. donald trump is behaving as donald trump behaves and it's why people continue to reject him. >> right. ashley, and david and i both

know this from the politicos from florida, hurricanes really sort of define in many ways politicians from states that are prone to them. you know, jeb bush, as much as democrats may have not loved jeb bush from a policy point of view was good at managing hurricanes. it is a reminder that you are hiring a crisis manager when you're hiring a governor or hiring a president. and you know, the idea that what donald trump is doing is starting a go fund me, you're supposed to be a billionaire, sir. put 1 million dollars in yourself. why are you doing a go fund me and pretending yourself acting as president. you wrote an op-ed which you gave advice to vice president harris ways she can be more president in communities where people don't know her. say more about that. >> yeah. my suggestion is that she really -- a couple of things, one, the first thing is dispense talking about donald trump. the incessant focus on donald trump. anyone who is going to be convinced about donald trump already knows the story. they've already decided and are determined where they are with him. so focus on her. people have questions about her.

and i think that the best format for her to sort of demonstrate who she is, that very texture of who she is, that compassionate leader that identify seen, that servant leader i've seen in those rooms is town halls. dispense with the big rallies that are meant for entertainment. get into the town hall style formats where it enables her to sort of endear here to the american people, allows her to answer questions directly on the ground. that's something i recommend for her. also, too, we saw back in '19, her town halls were record setting. i think it's a >> last word to you, david, about mark robinson. he wants to be governor and could not be bothered to vote for assistance about his own state. it does not say much about him.

>> republicans have a way of elevating these people who are both callous and clueless. i will also point out that our member of congress as you mentioned, on the day the storm was coming ashore, voted to shut down the government. voted to shut down funding for fema. so did 80 republicans as one of the worst storms in history was approaching and voted to defund the emergency agencies to deal with it. that is on republicans and voters need to deal with it. >> it is like ted cruz going to cancun. republicans are showing as a party they are seriously broken when it comes to protecting and caring for human beings. people need to vote accordingly. there can be a better republican party, but you have to get rid of this one to build one that is worth being a part of. maybe david jolly would join backup if you created a better one. ashley etienne and david jolly, all the best to you both. and coming up, the true star of last night's debate. here he comes. don't go anywhere. engthen roots all winter for a better lawn next spring.

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you said to me, i've been to high school civics class. why did you say that? >> because of anybody took high school civics class, they would know what the vice president can't do and what the vice president can do. i want to make a quick point. neither candidate on that stage talked about what executive action they would take on day one to do what they want, nor were they asked, because they know what they can't. that is not how the vice presidency works. you do what the president delegates you to do. >> that is marcus johnson, a student at oakland university in rochester, michigan. the internet's choice for the winner of last night's debate and our next guest. marcus was taking part in a postdebate voter panel with jacob soboroff when he dismantled one of the many bad- faith arguments made by j.d. vance. the idea that kamala harris should implement her policies right now.

when a quick civics lesson in mind who she has vice president, the same job you are auditioning for, mr. vance. marcus johnson joins me now. i have to tell you you got more attention and i had more texts about you than anything else that happened last night. how have you responded to your new internet fame? >> i won't lie to you. i didn't find out too much about it until last night when a bunch of people kept yelling at me, marcus, you are on reddit. how fun. i went to my dorm room and went to sleep. that was enough for me. i wake up this morning and i had notifications on x. my best friends texting me. it has been nuts and still to this day, all i did, i went to class. i've got stuff to do. i didn't have time to worry about anybody else. >> i want to know, what are you studying? you are a member of the student congress and the speaker of the legislature. number one, where did you learn such great civics and what are

you studying? >> i am studying political science, if at all that is a surprise. naturally. as far as where i learned civics, naturally, i go with my own talking point, in high school. shout out to ms. chase, my civics teacher. other than that i just pay attention every now and again. actually i've looked at the constitution every now and again. i get a lot of my civics knowledge from there. >> if somehow we were able to convince vice president harris to do a town hall at oakland university in rochester, michigan, i have to ask, would you cohost with me? >> oh yeah. i will give you my number. i will sign up for it right now. >> let's do it and let me ask you this, what are some of the questions you think your generation has that you have not seen answered at this moment by either candidate? >> that is a fun question, because i am thinking about all

of the different things people have been coming up to me telling me and i wish they would talk about this, i wish they would talk about that and i won't lie to you, of all the things i hear a lot of people saying everybody is worried about, immigration is not on the top of the list, but you have to remember we are a bunch of college students. we worry about, you know, paying for class and is my debt going to be here for another million years? i have a bunch of friends in the transgender community who are still wondering if they are going to have rights at the end of this election. one of them who was interviewed on nbc has been dealing with so much cyber bullying from these idiots and trolls. it is nonsense. so i have friends who are too focused on whether or not they will have rights at the end of this election to focus on much else, so i think hearing that it is helpful for a lot of people, but focusing a lot on that. i heard someone earlier mention that it might be good for vice president harris to focus less

on donald trump and what he's doing and this and that and focus on her, which a lot of people would love to hear more about it. i can sit here and drone on about her record from here to kingdom come, but i can only do so much. they want to hear from her and they should. >> it is not friday, but you on the week, my friend. you had 100 followers when this started. it is 12,000 and going now. get this young brother to 1 million. he deserves it. marcus johnson, it is not even friday, but you one the week, my friend. >> i appreciate it, thank you so much for having me. >> thank you very much and that is 10 nights "reidout". don't go anywhere. next, rachel maddow joins chris hayes for a special edition of "all in" and that starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> at its core, the defendant donald trump scheme was a private criminal effort.

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