the next two or three weeks. i don't care what joe biden thinks. that's what he thinks, okay? but when you look at it on paper, you've got to ask yourself, realistically, seriously, his country was attacked by a next-door neighbor. if we were attacked, we would strike back very, very hard. i mean, i would hope we would. that's what the israelis are doing. it's a tough balance, i think, to figure out both emotionally and politically for the united states of america. >> we'll have live reporting from the middle east in a moment on "morning joe." we'll see you on "morning joe," as well. >> really? you'll ask me on? >> you have to stay. it was a good booking for us. >> wow. >> msnbc contributor mike barnicle making his "morning joe" debut in a few moments. won't want toiss that. mike, thank you. and thank you for all of you getting up "way too early" on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. i don't believe that we have the luxury of writing in candidates' names, particularly

in swing states. as a conservative, as someone who believes in and cares about the constitution, i have thought deeply about this. because of the danger that donald trump poses, not only am i not voting for donald trump, but i will be voting for kamala harris. [ applause ] >> that was former republican congresswoman liz cheney of wyoming one month ago, endorsing democratic nominee kamala harris for president. today, cheney will appear with harris for the first time at a campaign event in battleground wisconsin. that comes following the release of a new report on donald trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. we'll dig into why special counsel jack smith says most of trump's actions on and around january 6th are not protected by the supreme court's immunity decision. trump, meanwhile, made more comments about migrants yesterday, explaining his plan

to deport those in the u.s. with legal status. to deport legal migrants. plus, a day after the vice presidential debate, both running mates were back out on the campaign trail. we'll show you what governor tim walz and senator jd vance had to say about that final debate most, when vance refused to say whether trump lost the 2020 election. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, october 3rd. happy new year to our jewish friends. along with willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. co-host of msnbc's "the weekend," former chair of the republican national committee, michael steele. and former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor, chuck r rosenberg. willie, the first line of jack smith's 165-page filing,

the defendant, donald trump, asserts he is immune from prosecution for his criminal scheme to overturn the 2020 presidential election because he claims it entailed official conduct. not so. and he goes on to explain why. >> yeah, the special counsel seeking to make the case and to pierce the immunity argument made by the supreme court over the summer. we are now getting an in-depth look at jack smith's election interference case against donald trump. a judge yesterday unsealed smith's filing in response to the supreme court's ruling on presidential immunity. in it, smith argues trump was not acting as president of the united states when he sought to overturn his 2020 election loss. though his multiple conspiracies began after election day in 2020, the defendant laid the groundwork for the crimes well before then. smith goes on to write, that same day, in explicit acknowledgment he had no lawful way to prevail, he sidelined the

existing campaign staff responsible for mounting his legal challenges, who were telling the defendant the truth that he did not want to hear, which he has last. the defendant turned to a private attorney willing to falsely claim victory and spread knowingly false claims of election fraud. smith argues in the brief, trump knew his claims of outcome determinative fraud were false. writing, "following election day and throughout the charged conspiracies, the defendant, his co-conspirators, and their agents spread lies that there had been fraud in the election, that he had actually won. smith details conversations between vice president pence and trump, in which pence told trump he had seen no evidence of fraud in the election. pence," smith writes, "gradually tried to convince the defendant to accept the lawful results of the election, even if it meant the defendant lost."

trump's speech, where he repeated lies in arizona, nevada, pennsylvania, wisconsin, which had been debunked. the defendant used the lies to motivate the large and angry crowd of his supporters to march to the capitol and disrupt the certification proceeding. the filing from smith details another conversation between trump and pence on january 1st. the former vice president explained he did not believe he had the power under the constitution to decide which votes to accept. trump then told pence, quote, "hundreds of thousands of people are going to hate your guts, and people are going to think you're stupid," and berated pence. quote, "you're too honest." smith argues, even if the court determines these conversations were official, the government can rebut the presumption of immunity because the use of this evidence poses no risk to executive branch prerogatives. the content of the conversations at issue, the defendant and pence's joint electoral fate and how to accept the election results, have no bearing on any

function of the executive branch. >> and we fight. we fight like hell. if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> of course, that is donald trump back on january 6th, 2021. chuck rosenberg, this is 165 pages, as mika said. there's a lot to sift through. a lot of detail. it is clear that a lot of the testimony is coming directly from mike pence, among other people who were around donald trump. it seems to me, and i'll let you walk us through and explain, the core argument here is donald trump was not acting as president. he was acting as a presidential candidate, effectively, when talking to mike pence about these things. >> i think that's exactly right, willie. supreme court said that certain official conduct is off limits, that any president, mr. trump in this case, would be immune from prosecution for official acts. so the government's brief here, it's styled as a motion for the judge to make determinations about immunity. but the thrust of the

government's brief here, willie, is that mr. trump was not acting in an official capacity. he was acting in a private capacity, as a candidate, not as a president, but as a candidate, trying to secure re-election. so all of those 165 pages have a similar theme. they lay out a series of acts, of conversations, between the president and private officials for the most part, explaining that the president was willfully blind to the facts that he had lost. that he was urging people to act in fraudulent and dishonest ways, and he is trying to retain office. all of this is intended to convince the district court judge, the trial judge, judge chutkan, that these are all prosecutable acts. they're not immune. remember, the supreme court had the easy job, willie. all they had to do was pronounce a rule. judge chutkan has the really

hard job. she has to implement the rule. the government is trying to give her a path, a road map to implement the rule in a way that they believe means that mr. trump still may be prosecuted for all of these unofficial acts as a candidate. >> interesting. chuck, boy, this goes into the relationship with pence in a big way. the different efforts in different states to try to change the outcome. also, trump's tweets, making it very clear, by the way, that it was him tweeting. he goes through tweets as a candidate, casting doubt on election integrity. tweets making false claims of election fraud. tweets and retweets attacking those speaking the truth about the election. tweets exhorting individuals to travel to washington, d.c., for the save america rally. tweets involving pence's role on january 6th. the defendant's 2:24 p.m. tweet on january 6th. i mean, it is very specific that

these tweets were done by trump, but my question is, how can you separate his official capacities to his unofficial capacities, therefore not immune, if he's still -- there's still a transition that is under way. does that make sense? >> it does make sense, mika, and it is precisely the right question. again, very easy for this supreme court to proclaim. very hard to implement. it's like my ninth grade al ge bra teacher. she can say, you have to study harder and get grades up. easy for her to say that, much harder for me to do it. the supreme court has said that official acts are out of bounds, immune. all right. now, judge chutkan, you figure it out. you tell us which acts you think are prosecutable. the government is making its case that everything in its 165-page brief is prosecutable. it's all evidence that may be deduced to the trial, and it could be used by a jury if they

see fit to convict mr. trump of the fraud with which he is charged. but to your point, mika, some of this stuff, and i have no doubt mr. trump's attorneys will argue, that some of this stuff is official conduct. particularly, right, conversations that mr. trump had with his then vice president. this is a difficult task for jung chutkan. i was not able to get my grades up in algebra. easy for my teacher to say, hard for me to do it. this will be a difficult, long stretch of pretrial litigation. >> that was one of my questions. if you thought this was going to be a tough slog to push this through put judge. secondly, was there anything in here that surprised you? >> not really. i mean, this reads a little bit like a trial brief or a trial memorandum. sometimes before a complex trial, prosecutors, and i've done this, will file a preef

brief telling the district court what to expect from witnesses, so there are no surprises. this is not styled as a trial brief. it's a motion for a judge to make immunity determinations, but it really lays out much more of the government's evidence. i don't know it's all of it, but it's probably most of it, at least in, you know, broad strokes. and they're doing this because they have to adduce trial evidence that is not immune. they have to introduce a trial evidence that can be used to convict mr. trump. remember, mika, the government has already superseded their indictment. they've already struck from the original indictment passages that they believe are clearly immune. the government has arrived at a place where they think they have the right stuff and the right balance of stuff, stuff that is not immune from prosecution, to push this case forward. now, does the judge agree? we shall see. >> donald trump was asked about the unsealing of this brief

yesterday, the redacted brief, in an interview last night. here's what he said. >> this was a weaponization of government, and that's why it was released 30 days before the election. there's nothing new in there, by the way. nothing new. they rigged the election. i didn't rig the election. they rigged the election. >> okay. jonathan lemire, he said someone else rigged the election. we can sift through that later. if you look through the 165 pages, just some of the detail which, again, is not terribly surprising based on the reporting we've seen, based on that volume produced by the house committee on january 6th and on the election of 2020, but there are some moments that stand out. as when an aide came up to donald trump on january 6th as he sat scrolling twitter and watching fox news and said, "your vice president, mike pence's life is in danger. the secret service has rushed him. he's not safe right now." donald trump is alleged to have said, quote, "so what?"

when approached by his daughter ivanka and her husband, jared kushner, he said, according to this brief, "it doesn't matter if you won or lost. you still have to fight like hell." what stood out to you, john, as somebody who wrote an entire book about this day and all the events around it? >> you're right, willie, no surprises in here, but vivid detail. you ticked through some of them. trump's utter callousness and uncaring on january 6th, when there was violence. violence to the point that put his own vice president's life in danger. we have also in here an unnamed campaign aide from an earlier moment actually saying, "make them riot," when there was a disturbance at another campaign office. this was part of the plan, to stir unrest, to fight, to intimidate, to try to overturn the will of the people. katty, donald trump claims this is election interference. two rebuttals to that.

let's remember james comey's letter to the investigation into hillary clinton, that was two weeks before the election. this is much further out. the reason this is coming now is donald trump's own legal team's delay tactics. then the supreme court's decision on immunity, which jack smith is trying to circumvent. this doesn't qualify as an october surprise, but it is a reminder to so many americans what trump did, what the years were like, what another trump presidency could be like. do you think it is going to matter in this election? >> i think you're right. we have a lot of october surprises. we're only into day three or four of october, and there are a ton out there. most of them around the world. i don't think this counts as one. so far, every time that donald trump has had some kind of a legal setback -- and what chuck was saying earlier, this is a hard slog for jack smith, to define whether it was his role as a candidate or role as a president, given he was both at the same time. how do you distinguish between the two? every time he had this in the past, he used it to raise more

money. on the trump side, they feel this doesn't set them back necessarily. it is interesting that this kind of sheds light on jd vance's last few moments of the debate, when you hear what donald trump was saying last night, about i didn't rig the election. they rigged the election. again, saying the election was stolen because it was a fake outcome, according to donald trump. that is why jd vance was put in that position at the end of that debate. it's a tough one for him to get through. >> both candidates talked about that on the campaign trail yesterday. let's take a listen. >> when you're governor, congressman, trying to solve problems, or if you want a straight answer on something, the moment that really stuck out is i just asked the simplest of all questions that every single american should be able to answer. i asked him if donald trump lost the 2020 election.

he refused to answer. understand, in the 88th minute, with the damning non-answer, senator vance made it clear, he will always make a different choice than mike pence made. and as i said then and i will say now, that should be absolutely disqualifying if you're asking to be the vice president of the united states. >> here's the simple reason. the media is obsessed with talking about the election of four years ago. i'm focused on the election of 33 days from now because i want to throw kamala harris out of office and get back to common sense economic policy. but i also think you can believe that america needs to have secure and free elections but also talk about the fact that, just a couple of weeks ago, democrats in the u.s. congress blocked a piece of legislation that would have ensured illegal aliens don't vote in our elections. if you believe in american democracy, if you believe in our

constitutional republic, you should be trying to strengthen american election integrity and not weaken it. >> michael steele, i want your thoughts on this. and i'm curious, i really think tim walz defined the election, defined the choice in that moment during the debate, as much as you could see vance trying to sane wash it. there's a lot of use of that word lately. >> yeah. >> but there are a swath of voters who are watching maga tv, whether it's fox news, newsmax, rumble, or whatever else they have going on out there, and they're not hearing anything about this, or very little. i really feel like the harris campaign needs to get into the arena. they need top surrogates going on fox news and going to these places and trying to talk to people. i know that might be hard, and perhaps they're not welcome, but then tell us that. i mean, we need to somehow get

the entire conversation out there for all the american people to see. for all the american people to see the facts and the choice. >> so let's unpack this a couple of ways real quick. the first part of this, you're right. i looked at that debate between vance and walz as two fighters in a ring going at each other. one fighter, vance, for, you know, out of a ten-round bout, for nine rounds, was winning on points, right? the judges were impressed by the style, the movements. he landed some punches. he was winning on points. in the tenth round, the guy who is losing on points landed a knockout blow with one question, which utterly disqualified his opponent for the office that he is seeking. and that's a profound moment. i think that moment will register and has registered with

the 40 plus million americans who watched that debate. that part of what happened, of that story, is what the campaign has to get out in front and which they've begun to do almost immediately after that debate, with a very important add, i think, that sort of clarifies that. that's one. two, with respect to someone watching fox, newsmax, or any of those stations, if that's their only source of news, there is nothing else we can say to them at this point. i don't think the harris campaign can waste its time on convincing the unconvincible. what i think they need to look at are those voters out there who are sitting on the sidelines saying, i just don't know if i want to vote. and i think that's where their focus has to be. because those are the gettable voters. they're not necessarily going to be persuaded by that knockout punch.

what you have to understand and get to is what is the thing that's keeping them from getting in the ring with governor walz? i think a lot of that has to do with the economy, which is why what's happening with the longshoremen is so important. peel back that story line and look at the relationship between mr. daggert and the former president of the united states, and why now? you talk about october surprises, right? the planning around that. when there were people trying to get that resolved before we got to this point. so there are things that touch on the economy of people that they want to use as a reason for not speaking out and speaking on behalf of walz and harris. then address that for them. those are the voters you'll need in those battleground states. the fox viewer is not going to be moved by anything kamala harris has to say in the 34th day of the -- left in the

campaign. but there are voters out there who are on the sidelines, who are making the excuse for not getting in. help them get over that excuse. give them the reason to get in the race. that's where the richness of the vote lies for them. >> we're going to dig into that dock workers' strike more in a bit. you're right, michael, could have a big impact as this drags on, if it does for several more weeks. chuck rosenberg, to tie up this filing from the special counsel yesterday, just to look out ahead on where this goes from here, you touched on it briefly before, but the trump team obviously gets a chance over the next couple of weeks to respond to the filing, then the special counsel responds to the response. now, you're basically at halloween at that point. in terms of an impact on the election, doesn't look like there will be one, but where will this go from here as judge chutkan considers both sides of the argument, whether donald trump's actions were private or whether he was acting in his role as president?

>> you're quite right, willie. the trump team will respond. they will argue that all of these things are actually official conduct and, therefore, immune and, therefore, the indictment in whole or in part ought to be dismissed. i just want to touch on one other point about whether or not this constitutes election interference. couple of points here that i think are important. number one, this brief was not released by the justice department or by the president or by the harris campaign. it was filed by the special counsel, and it was made public by a sitting federal district court judge. number two, whether or not she released this redacted filing, she would be at least in theory, accused of some political decision making. the decision to keep it sealed might be viewed on one side as political. the decision to unseal it in part might be viewed on the other side as political.

i think judge chutkan simply did what judges do. she's moving her docket along. there is a strong preference in the federal courts to make documents public, because the public ought to be able to see what is happening in their courts. she did what judges do. she made the filing public. again, either way, damned if you do, damned if you don't. you're accused of withholding something or filing something, then some people think you're acting politically. i don't view it that way. to your other point, willie, this will take a while. you're not going to have an answer by october. there may even -- by the end of october, and there may even be more appeals as judge chutkan tries to parse what remains of the indictment to determine what is in bounds and what is out of bounds, willie. >> all right. former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," a lot to get to. israel stays eight idf soldiers

have been killed fighting hezbollah inside lebanon. we'll get a live report from beirut. plus, a strike by 45,000 dock workers, halting shipments at east and gulf coast ports, is entering its third consecutive day with no sign of a deal to get them back on the job. we'll talk to transportation secretary pete buttigieg about that. as well as the federal relief efforts in the southeast in the aftermath of hurricane helene. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds. my moderate to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture. now i have skyrizi. ♪ i've got places to go and i'm feeling free ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me ♪ ♪ control is everything to me ♪ and now i'm back in the picture. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements.

skyrizi helped visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and with skyrizi, many were in remission at 12 weeks, at 1 year, and even at 2 years. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how to take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. a perfect day for a family outing! shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. only shingrix is proven over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site,

muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. fighting inside lebanon. the soldiers were killed in three separate incidents while engaged in close quarters combat. these are the first reported casualties since the idf started its ground operation earlier this week. it comes as israel continues to launch air strikes targeted at hezbollah facilities. a strike overnight killed at least six people in beirut. meanwhile, the white house now is looking to prevent a wider war after iran's massive missile attack against israel a couple days ago. the u.s. supports israel retaliating in some capacity, but president biden says he does not want israel to attack tehran's nuclear facilities. joining us now from beirut, nbc news international correspondent

matt bradley. matt, what's the latest there? >> reporter: hey, yeah, willie, actually, the latest is that the death toll from those strikes in central beirut has risen from six to nine. this according to lebanon's ministry of health. this struck a health facility that is apparently connected to hezbollah. this goes to show that not only is downtown beirut no longer off limits when it comes to israeli air strikes. we saw a couple days ago the first time the israelis struck central beirut. it means that also sort of more civilian-oriented facilities that are connected to groups like hezbollah or other militant groups are very much on the menu. so the israelis are expanding their attacks in a big way. not just in terms of geography but also in terms of political connections. we've spoken with several people connected to hezbollah who say they don't believe they could be subject to these strikes. they said they're essentially civilians.

the target pattern has widened now to include, essentially, civilians. we were sitting here last night, willie, late before we went to bed, when we heard three loud thumps. we couldn't see exactly where it was hitting. normally, as i've been telling you, we've had front row seats to the terrifying fireworks that have been going on over this neighborhood where we've been seeing thuds and smoke rising from this shiite military neighborhood. it looks like the israelis are expanding their attacks. this as we're also seeing the israelis continuing their incursion on the ground in southern lebanon. that is a situation where we've seen, yesterday, the first words about that. then we started to see actual casualties. eight people dead, as you mentioned, eight soldiers. now, hezbollah announced they have continued to engage israeli soldiers. this fire fight isn't the rapid in-and-out we've been seeing maybe 20 years ago, the last time there was an israeli ib

incursion into lebanon. this could be a sustained, crawling incursion on the ground, where we're going to be seeing this day in, day out. reports of new engagements and new casualies on both sides. that, of course, is a disaster for the lebanese population living in the southern part of the country. we're hoping most of them managed to get out. the israelis have always been saying to people, to civilians, please leave these various villages and towns along the border. we don't know if everybody is abiding by this, and we really don't have eyes down there because of the lack of people. we don't know exactly what is going on. we don't know what the combat looks like. we only hear about it when we get the casualty reports. meanwhile, of course, all of this is happening in the background of the big thing that the entire region is waiting for, which is, what will israel's response to those 180 ballistic missiles fired by the iranians two days ago, what will that response look like? that'll set the tone and the tempo for this region-wide war

we're now seeing. we've been talking the past year for the threat of the regionalization of this conflict between iran and israel. now, we are seeing it in real time. it's up to the israelis to determine whether or not they are going to pummel iran and invite a further escalation, or whether they're going to restrain themselves, as the biden administration seems to be asking them to do, willie. >> nbc's matt bradley live for us from beirut this morning. matt, thanks so much, as always. we appreciate it. jonathan lemire, we had the former israeli ambassador to the united states sitting with us yesterday at the table. saying they should go after the ayatollahs inside iran the way they went after nasrallah in lebanon. as israel weighs its respond, how hard do they go at iran? what is the influence that the president of the united states, that the secretary of state, that the united states writ large, actually has on bibi netanyahu? we heard the president yesterday

saying, don't go after the nuclear facilities in iran. unclear if the prime minister of israel is listening to any of that. >> yeah. president biden's influence waning in the middle east, his ability to shape what israel does. that's been a steady devolution for months now. i have new reporting on this this morning, willie. yes, the u.s. has communicated publicly and privately to israel, stay away from nuclear facilities. they want them to avoid energy facilities. they'd not support an assassination of the ayatollah, as was suggested yesterday. they hope to have a more limited strike. katty, in april, the last time iran struck at israel, president biden told prime minister netanyahu, in his words, take the win. we successfully defended israel. we know you'll hit back, but do so in a limited fashion. israel did listen then. but since then, the relationship between netanyahu and biden has only gotten worse because of the war in gaza. there is a sense here israel is going to strike back. it's not quite clear when. and the question on everyone's minds, and that includes u.s.

officials i spoke to yesterday, they're not sure what israel is going to do. they're not tipping their hand, whether it'll be strategic and painful again to iran, or something much, much bigger. >> look, ever since october 7th, one of the striking things when i've spoken to people in the region has been their awareness of the lack of american power. how limited america's options are and how limited america's leverage has been around the situation in gaza, but now around the situation with iran, as well. i don't hear so much the administration now saying, take the win. i think they realize this attack was very serious from iran into israel. therefore, israel is bound to respond. now, it is a question of negotiating the parameters. what is that response going to be? is there an opportunity still to contain the war? contain the war from spreading further and growing further in a way that might destabilize a lot of things in the world. gas prices. a host of things could be destabilized, including the u.s. election. there are different aims here. you have the iranians who don't want a war because they know

israel is stronger than they are at the moment militarily. the israelis who may want a war, and the american administration, particularly the white house, saying we don't want this to spread any further. at the same time, donald trump is out on the campaign trail saying, look, the world was less out of control when i was president. in an election which is very close and things like tip it, this is the october surprise that's probably the one that's most important. speaking of donald trump, amidst all of this in the middle east, the former president minimized traumatic brain injuries suffered by troops while he was president. calling them, quote, headaches. speaking in milwaukee on tuesday, trump was asked about his white house's response to a 2020 attack on a u.s. military base in iraq by iran. take a look. >> do you believe that you would have been tougher on iran after they had launched ballistic missiles in 2020 on u.s. forces in iraq, leaving more than 100

u.s. soldiers injured? >> first of all, injured. what does injured mean? you mean because they had a headache, the bombs never hit the fort? so you understand, there was nobody ever tougher on iraq. >> the pentagon says 109 u.s. troops were diagnosed with traumatic brain injuries, that after iran sent a missile barrage in 2020. trump dismisses them as headaches. trump also weighed in on the conflict between iran and israel. >> this has really been bad,fin process, however it turns out. they have to finish the process. this is a little bit like two kids fighting in the schoolyard. sometimes you have to let it go a little bit. we'll see what happens. but it's really caused by a lack of respect for the united states of america.

>> oh, my god. michael steele, it's not even funny. >> it's not. >> it would be, but it's just not. >> it's not. >> first of all, headaches, traumatic brain injuries, big difference. he doesn't care. for anybody who still doesn't get it, he doesn't care about anybody but himself. >> he doesn't care. >> as a solution to the situation in the middle east, let it go? we'll see what happens? why doesn't he add in another token line he always puts in there, we'll have a solution in two weeks. we'll have health care in two weeks. in two weeks, in two weeks. this man has no grasp on the issues, no answers, and no solutions. just pat lines that he turns back to almost like someone who is kind of grasping for an answer. >> he is a fool, an incompetent individual who does not read even the briefings that he still gets as a former president on

some of these things, so he'd at least have some workable knowledge of events there. he has to wait to be told what putin tells him to think about this affair. because that's where his alliances, his allegiance is. the most galling and assaulting part of this is to minimize the traumatic injuries to our servicemen and women who took the incoming barrage from iranian missiles. and who, as has been reported, have been -- were denied their purple hearts as a consequence of that because the pentagon was dancing around how not to offend the president because he didn't think it was that important. these were just headaches. these were minor injuries. he didn't want -- here's the

galling part, he didn't want that stain on his administration, where something like this happened on his administration, on his watch, that our soldiers were injured in conflict. now, he wants to whitewash it and say, oh, injured? what does injury mean? what does being injured mean? well, it means you get a purple heart for the services that you provided our country to protect and defend us on foreign soil. to represent our interest, to protect our interest. but that is a foreign concept to this man. and the country needs to make itself up out of this stupor because this does not get better with him there. he will not solve these problems. he is the progenitor of these problems. he will be the focal point of the expansion of these problems. because they're unimportant to him. you know, we're 30 some days out from an election in which half the country looking to put this

idiot back in office. are you kidding me? are you kidding me? this is the man who diminishes the -- i don't want to go to that graveyard because there are dead soldiers there, when he is in europe, in france. you know, i think that john mccain's service, well, he got captured. no appreciation what that means, to have a soldier who gives up coming home because he didn't want to leave his fellow servicemen behind. i mean, this lack of appreciation is a stain on our country when it comes from a president. and i think y'all need to think about this long and hard. because you think this is going to be somehow different, that the middle east problems are going to go away as soon as donald trump is inaugurated? that putin is going to sit back and go, you know what? donald trump is now president. oh, my god, let me get out of ukraine? come on, stop being stupid,

people. get your head in the game, and understand what's about to happen. i mean, the warning signs have been there. the problem is in the house. >> it's very clear. thank you, michael. coming up, president biden is set to survey more damage from the storm today with visits to florida and georgia. we'll have the latest on the recovery efforts in the wake of hurricane helene. that is straight ahead on "morning joe." i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms.

with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue, and stop further joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what's yours. abbvie could help you save.

let's say you're deep in a show

or a game or the game. on a train, at home, at work. okay, maybe not at work. point is at xfinity. we're constantly engineering new ways to get the entertainment you love to you faster and easier than ever. that's what i do. is that love island?

i don't have to tell this group hurricane helene has been a storm of proportions. the storm is being assessed, but many people are still unaccounted for. i'm here to say the united states, the nation, has your back. the nation has your back. we're not leaving until you're back on your feet completely. >> that was president biden yesterday in north nnounced the of more federal aid for four states impacted by hurricane helene. the death toll from the mobster storm has now climbed to at least 190 people. hundreds of others remain missing. the president surveyed the damage in the carolinas yesterday. he first took an aerial tour of greenville county, south carolina, and then hard-hit asheville, north carolina, where entire communities were swept away from severe flooding. president biden will visit

florida and georgia today as communities there try to pick up the pieces following the wide spread devastation. mean while, a massive release effort is under way at the bristol motor speedway in tennessee. that's where we find nbc news international correspondent marissa parra who joins us live. >> reporter: this is a critical emergency for so many. so many families are lacking the access to basic necessities like running water. you mentioned those who remain missing. we have seen those families firsthand. the desperation, it's been almost one week since their family members wen went missing. of course, we're seeing the desperation growing and the hope starting to fade. at this point, we're seeing so much response all across the country. we're seeing federal response,

federal agencies on the ground. big setups at disaster release centers like the ones behind me. of course, the smaller efforts like the churches doing dnation drives. all the efforts to get to the remote places, the rescues happening. we've seen countless stories of exactly that. we've seen horses, mules, used to trudge up the sides of mountains after roads were shattered, cutting off access. helicopter rescues on top of barns. we've seen people using their private helicopters to bring supplies to people and families who are completely shut off from the world. we're just scratching the surface of the stories here. partially, some of these areas are so remote, they haven't had contact with the outside world. they don't live on their phone, aren't taking videos. but we have videos. this house flowing down the river, swept off its foundation. you see a distant shadow of a man on the porch.

we're hearing stories of volunteers, like mccreary, who took out his own boat. he died trying to help other people. or the impact plastics factory workers, like bertha mendoza. she came from mexico. her final call was to her family to make sure her children knew she loved them. and her family believes that is the last call she will ever make. i will tell you, there is a state investigation into the factory. what role they may have played in what is now several missing workers, believed to have been swept by floodwaters. as families have been pressing them. we've seen this at the press conferences. families pressing them on why they were still working in those conditions. and we talked about this dire need for so many across the region, whether it's the carolinas, whether it is in parts of georgia, parts of tennessee. we see boil water advisories, but there are still parts of north carolina that don't even have a boil water advisory because they don't have access to running water to begin with.

so i will say, you know, we have so many examples of people trying to help, coming from across the country. this disaster relief center behind me just one example of exactly that. this situation growing dire as we approach one week since hurricane helene made landfall. so far from where we're standing. this is climate change in action. so many people across the region did not expect this to be as bad as it was. >> epic devastation. we'll be following your reporting. marissa parra live in bristol, tennessee, thank you very much for the report. we'll talk more about the storm relief effort when transportation secretary pete buttigieg joins the conversation. we'll also ask him about the thousands of port workers who are on strike for the third straight day. and the attempt to reach a fair deal. plus, former white house aide in the trump administration, cassidy hutchinson, will be our guest. she was a key witness for the

committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. she'll weigh in on the new legal filing in the federal election interference case against donald trump. "morning joe" will be right back. back

i know about 20 of you, and you're rich as hell. we're going to give you tax cuts. i'm not rich as hell. i'm the one that really needs the break, not the people that are already rich and have the money. the 1% don't serve anybody but themselves. so for them to get a tax break, no, that's not cool. kamala harris is going to make billionaires pay their fair share, and she's going to cut taxes for working people like me. i'm buddy, and i'm not rich as hell, and i'm voting for kamala harris. ff pac is responsible for the content of this ad. here you go. is there anyway to get a better price on this? have you checked singlecare? whenever my customers ask how to get a better price on their meds, i always tell them about singlecare. it's a free app. accepted at major pharmacies nationwide. before i pick up my prescription at the pharmacy, i always check the singlecare price. it's quick, easy, and totally free to use.

singlecare can literally beat my insurance copay. you just search for your prescription, and show your coupon in the app to your pharmacist. i just show you the coupon and i get this price? that's right! go to singlecare.com and start saving today. (man) these men of means with their silver spoons.

what will become of them when they discovers right! robinhood gold allows others to earn their very liberal rates on idle cash. they would descend into chaos. if i was injured on a job site i'd call the barnes firm. i wasn't sure what to do. i called the barnes firm. best call i could have made. injured on a job site? call the barnes firm now. ♪ call 1-800 eight million ♪ have you been injured on a job site? ♪ call the barnes firm now.♪ we handle construction accident cases. if i was injured on a job site i'd call the barnes firm. i wasn't sure what to do. i called the barnes firm. best call i could have made. i had a serious fall. i called the barnes firm. they got me the best result possible. injured on a job site? call the barnes firm now. ♪ the barnes firm, injury attorneys ♪ ♪ call 1-800 eight million ♪

i had a serious fall. i called the barnes firm. ♪ cathey got me themillion ♪ best result possible. injured on a job site? call the barnes firm now. ♪ the barnes firm, injury attorneys ♪ ♪ call 1-800 eight million ♪ top right center. taylor back, and it is gone! >> garrett mitchell just sneaking one over the fence for a two-run home run in the eighth

inning to break the tie, giving the milwaukee brewers a late lead over the mets. go-ahead shot in the eighth coming after jackson churro, the 20-year-old, tied the game with his second solo home run of the night. brewers come back to beat the mets, 5-3, and now force a decisive game three tonight in their national league wild card series. the winner of tonight's game will face the n.l. east champions, philadelphia phillies, in a best of five n.l. division series starting this weekend. in san diego, new york yankees great kyle hagashioka sparking a rally. machado adding a two-run double with the bases loaded. what followed was a two-run triple. they beat the braves, 5-4, for a two-game sweep of atlanta. the padres now play the los angeles dodgers, in what should be a great n.l. division series.

in the american league, the baltimore orioles have been swept out of the playoffs for a second consecutive year. royals star bobby whit jr. with another big hit. he does this. gets the go-ahead run in the sixth. they head to the bronx to face the a.l. east champion new york yankees in the series. in houston, the detroit tigers end the astros' run of seven consecutive appearances in the championship series. abanez with a tie-breaking double. tigers sweeping the astros with a 5-2 win in game two of their a.l. wild card series. tigers now take on the a.l. central champion cleveland guardians in a best of five alds. great midwestern series there. mike barnicle joins us. mike, another great day, only the brewers survived, playing

today in the decisive game. the last game left in this round of playoffs, tonight against the mets. what stood out to you last night? >> what stood out to me last night was it was a day that was a gift to america. baseball all day long. all afternoon and all evening long. given what we talk about on these news programs each and every morning, the hideous nature of our politics, the difficulties of international conflict, especially in the middle east, we need a to rela. look at the gift that is baseball, the gift that keeps on giving. the two best players in baseball, two of the best players in baseball, jackso is 22 years old. bobby whit jr. is 23 years old. this is america. this is what the game is all about. willie, yesterday, had two conversations with people about

baseball. both of them were about a half hour, 45 minutes long. it was so refreshing not to be talking about politics or trump or whatever, who is going to win, blah, blah, blah, blah. i can't recall ever having the conversation about a pro football game from years ago or a national hockey league game from years ago or any sporting event from years ago, but these people got into detailed conversations about things they remembered from 1986, 1975. oh, my god, it was so refreshing. >> let's do 45 minutes on baseball right now. >> yeah, please. >> certainly, you know, we have -- willie, we have one game left. brewers and mets. mets have had so much magic, and it seemed like they were well on their way to a sweep yesterday. then the bullpen gave out in the eighth inning. that'll be a lot of fun tonight in game three. we have, as you noted, next round, a couple inter-divisions. padres and dodgers matchup. tigers and guardians. most of all, we now have

america's team, the new america's team, kansas city royals playing in the bronx against the heavily favored new york yankees. as mike said, in a time of darkness in politics, worry globally, willie, we can all unite behind the cinderella story, the feel-good story of those kansas city royals. >> well, that's not true, but i will grant you this. if they were not -- >> i thought you weren't going to fact-check me. [ laughter ] >> sorry, senator. it'd be impossible not to root for the royals if for a different opponent. they lost 106 games last year, 56-106 last year. one of the worst in baseball. mike was talking about bobby whit jr. just signed an 111-year contrac, making a commitment to kansas

city. it's paying off. they're fun to watch. you were talking about 1975. if you want a great story line, the yankees looking to avenge their loss in the 1980 alcs to the royals. the home run in game three, it still hurts. there you have it. america's team, the new york yankees, seeking redemption. coming up here, we will turn back to that new filing from special counsel jack smith, laying out the case for why former president donald trump still needs to be held accountable for his actions surrounding january 6th and the 2020 election, despite the supreme court's immunity ruling. we will walk through his case. my goodness, look at that sunrise over new york city. when we come back in two minutes. e to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture. now i have skyrizi. ♪ i've got places to go and i'm feeling free ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me ♪ ♪ control is everything to me ♪

and now i'm back in the picture. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi helped visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and with skyrizi, many were in remission at 12 weeks, at 1 year, and even at 2 years. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how to take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. president trump, you have long vowed to repeal and replace the affordable care act. if we come up with something, we're going to do it and we're going to replace it. you still do not have a plan? i have concepts of a plan. there are concepts and options we have to do that.

you have no plan. when donald trump was president, he tried to get rid of the affordable care act. and what the affordable care act has done is eliminate the ability of insurance companies to deny people with pre-existing conditions. you remember what that was like? we over the last four years have strengthened the affordable care act. and now we have capped the cost of insulin at $35 a month. we have capped the cost of prescription medication for seniors at two thousand dollars a year. and when i am president, we will do that for all people, understanding that access to health care should be a right and not just a privilege of those who can afford it. i'm kamala harris and i approve this message. (♪♪) tuesday night. anybody watch the debate last night? [ applause ]

look, not bad for a football coach. not bad. you also saw something interesting. we had a civil but spirited debate. and i did not underestimate senator vance is a slick talker. but i also called out there, you can't rewrite history. you can't rewrite history. and trying to mislead us about donald trump's record, that's gaslighting. that's gaslighting. so on the economy, reproductive freedom, housing, gun violence, look, they tried to tell us last night, wow, you should be happy. donald trump tried to save obamacare. are you kidding me? he spent his entire presidency trying to eliminate it. >> it's funny because, you know, we did this debate, and then i talked to the president afterwards. we talked a little bit about,

you know, what actually happened. some of the points i made. some of the points governor walz made. you know, he made this observation. he said, tim walz said that he was friends with school shooters twice. i said, that was probably only the third or fourth dumbest comment tim walz made that night. >> wow, he was so nice during the debate. that's range. senator jd vance and governor tim walz reacting on the campaign trail to their tuesday night debate face-off. welcome back to "morning joe." it's thursday, october 3rd. cat i can they, michael steele, and mike barnicle still with us. let's get back to the case laid out against donald trump. it's in response to the supreme court's ruling on presidential immunity. smith writes, though the defendant was the immunity defendant during the charged

conspiracies, his scheme was fundamentally a private one. working with a team of private co-conspirators, the defendant acted as a candidate when he pursued multiple criminal means to disrupt through fraud and deceit, the government function by which votes are counted. a function in which the defendant, as president, had no official role. smith continues, when all else had failed on january 6th, 2021, the former president directed an angry crowd of supporters to the united states capitol to obstruct the congressional certification. smith also writes that forensic evidence from the defendant's iphone and observations by witnesses testifying about unofficial acts establishes that trump was on twitter and watching television in the oval office during the riot at the capitol. the filing also reveals some new

details, including a conversation between trump and his family members after the election, which was overheard by a white house staffer. the former president reportedly told them, quote, it doesn't matter if you won or lost the election. you still have to fight like hell. let's bring in former u.s. attorney and mississippi nrk -- msnbc's barbara mcquade. and former prosecutor andrew weissmann. andrew, what stood out in the filing, and what to you make of it? is it a solid case to make? >> even as you noted, the supreme court requiring jack smith to truncate his proof, to another will witnesses who are private witnesses or people in public office but acting in a private capacity as a candidate, even with that limitation, that you can't use any evidence from people who are acting in an

official capacity at the white house or elsewhere, this is sort of body blow after body blow with really shocking evidence. i am old enough to remember watergate, which was a scandal about cheating and trying to find out what it is your opponent knew through illegal means and covering that up. this is so much worse. it lays out an effort to undermine and thwart the votes of millions and millions of people just to stay in office. and the evidence is coming from donald trump's own people. his own lawyers, his own campaign staff, and, most notably, his own vice president who had every incentive to want to win that election but decided to act out of principle and follow the rule of law. so this is a read that is so

graphic, so devastating, and so disspiriting, that this is where the country is, when these allegations are the kind of thing that the normal laws of gravity would have people understanding that this person should never be in office again based on this really detailed show of the facts around what donald trump did. >> barbara, there are some new details in here, new quotes, as andrew suggests. many seem to be coming from recognizable voices, like vice president mike pence. a suggestion that steve bannon is one of the people in here. rudy giuliani, perhaps not that there's testimony from them, but that they are quoted as making comments around january 6th and the lead-up to that day. i'm curious what stood out to you here. also, is there something new? we know, we've had an entire long session, hearing, and

report from the january 6th committee that laid this out chapter and verse. we know that a lot of the testimony did, in fact, come from republicans, the people closest to donald trump who couldn't believe what they were seeing on january 6th and had to tell someone about it and testify. what do you see in this report, and do you think it makes a convincing case to judge chutkan? >> yes. i think what stands out is the strength of the corroborating evidence. we know this story essentially from what we heard before the january 6th congressional committee. prosecutors have tools different from what congress had, additional tools. grand jury subpoenas, search warrants. from those things, they can get verbatim testimony from people who may have declined to go before the congressional committee. with the search warrants, they can get the content of text messages, email messages, voicemail messages. the verbatim transcripts which show up in this filing.

so from some of those things, we know there were people on the inside telling donald trump, this is b.s. another michigan official saying, this is f-ing nuts. yet, donald trump continues to proceed with this. that's important because one of the elements here will be that donald trump engaged in fraud. that means he knew what he was saying was wrong. there is even a quote that you mentioned earlier, overheard when donald trump is telling family members, overheard by an oval office staffer where he says, "even if you lose the election, you still have to keep fighting." i think those kinds of details will help this case withstand cross-examination at trial, and perhaps the skepticism of 12 jurors who have to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that this defendant is guilty. >> andrew, would it be a mistake to look at what happened in court, you have a respected federal judge, judge chutkan, unsealing certain elements of

evidence from jack smith's petition to the court, less than a month, about a month from the election, would it be a mistake to view this as judge chutkan's basic effort to tell the supreme court, yeah, you made a ruling on immunity, but we don't agree with it? >> i do think so. i think what judge chutkan is doing is actually carrying out what she was told to do by the supreme court. so the supreme court ruled that official act evidence cannot be used, unless you sort of overcome the very strong presumption of it being immune. and told her to basically hear from the parties and, if necessary, have a factual hearing that decides whether there is sort of -- there's personal conduct. that is as a candidate.

and whether there is sufficient evidence to go forward. so that was the mandate from the supreme court. whether she likes it or not, she actually wrote a decision that got overruled. she said that shouldn't be the law, but the supreme court governs. she is carrying out what they said to do. and this is the first of the filings. she will now hear from donald trump as to why jack smith is wrong legally or even factually. then she will make a decision. but this was step one in carrying out exactly what the supreme court said to do. that happens a lot. when a district court rules one way but then the appellate courts decide whether they're right or wrong. here, she's simply carrying it out. hearing from jack smith. as you've noted, this is a filing that really puts meat on the bones for the basic story we knew from january 6th, but gives you really direct evidence about what people say donald trump

knew and did from people saying, i was in the room with him. either i said this to him or he said this to me. >> so, barbara, kind of procedural question, so when does the trump team respond? what's the process here? >> yeah, so their brief currently is due on october 17th. that's a fairly tight timeline. it may be the case that donald trump continues his m.o. that we've seen throughout all of these legal proceedings and asks for additional time. it's interesting, though, to see whether he wants to get a filing in before the election so that he can respond and rebut some of these allegations. i imagine the argument is going to be all of this is official conduct. everything in the white house is official conduct. everything with mike pence is official conduct. none of this should be part of the trial because it is

protected by immunity. the position jack smith has taken is they are rebutting that presumption, so they have an obligation, as directed by the supreme court, to lay out all of this in front. we could see an extension, maybe even past the election, if the government doesn't object, or if judge chutkan allows additional time. frankly, i could imagine a scenario where donald trump does get additional time, simply because this is a 165-page filing with incredibly detailed allegations in it. to be able to go one by one through all of that might take someone more than the 17 days or so that remains on the calendar. but at some point, judge chutkan will make a decision, that either this is or is not protected by immimmunity. she'll have a record. i imagine whichever party doesn't win will appeal. perhaps we'll see a trial sometime next fall. >> former u.s. attorney and

msnbc contributor barbara mcquaid. and former federal prosecutor andrew weissmann, thank you for your analysis this morning. michael steele, when you read this 165-page document, it just brings back memories of those days and you wonder, like, you wonder how anybody could support this person for anything. they'd be fired from any company. you wouldn't let your children act this way, on and on and on. yet, it's so hard to move republicans. it's so difficult to, even those who might be frustrated, they just don't seem to have the permission structure to make a move on him, a convicted felon, mind you. >> yeah. >> in that trial, sex with a porn star, paying her off. liable forabuse. liable for defamation of a woman. let's just go to the recent past. he just said he would deport

legal migrants. >> legal, mm-hmm. >> in the past week, he said to solve, i think his solution for crime was a day of violence. just an hour of massive violence. >> purge. >> liz cheney stepping out for kamala harris, helpful moving the meter? does it provide a permission structure? i don't think it does. who would? are there any? where is the framework for permission structure for republicans who know all of this is wrong, who know this man shouldn't be given the keys to the white house? >> there are two -- there's three classes of republicans right now. you've got maga. set that aside because it's just cray-cray. >> i got that, yeah. >> you know where it is, where it is going to go. that's 38% to 40% of the hard

core base. then you've got republicans like me that are like, hell no, not doing stupid. not playing. not even going to pretend. we're doing everything to defeat this. then you've got those republicans who are caught between policy and power. so they're making calculations around this idea that, you know, we get the power back, then we can do the policy. or i've been a republican, i just can't agree to, you know, the silly stuff that democrats want, all the spending, all the social stuff, and all the policy-oriented things that democrats, you know, argue for, the case they make. you have people who supported the infrastructure bill, criticizing the infrastructure bill, right? so you have that space. and what a liz cheney does, myself, adam kinzinger, joe walsh, what they represent is,

for those folks stuck in that space to say, look, there is a way forward. we can have the disagreements on policy, but that does not mitigate against the country. you cannot use that as a cajole to keep from supporting the country. you can have political and policy disagreements with kamala harris and governor walz. but it can't be used as a cajole against the country. the country has to matter here because it's all out in front of you. i mean, we've seen it. it had been from, you know, impeachment hearings to, you know, what we're seeing today, it's all there. there is no -- what is the policy you're fighting for in this? we had four years of infrastructure week, and they didn't get it done. jd vance absolutely bold-facedly

lied, with all cap letters, that donald trump tried to salvage obamacare, that donald trump was a champion for obamacare? >> my word. >> and so what are you sitting here trying to hold on to? because there's nothing there. there was no big plan that was accomplished, except billionaires getting tax cuts. so what liz cheney and others are doing, and it is important to say to them, there is a way forward for the remnants of this party, but it begins with the first step of standing with kamala harris. not on policy but on principle. because the country needs you right now. >> so there have been a few progressives who have voiced some concern. the harris campaign embracing politicians with the last name of cheney might turn some off. but the harris team feels this is important. they've unveiled endorsements for national security officials, some of whom worked for donald

trump. today, katty, in wisconsin, they're really leaning into this idea, this permission structure, going across party lines, to put country ahead of party. they're having this event with liz cheney in the wisconsin town considered the birthplace of the republican party. they're leaning in on the symbolism. do we think, though, that this is, for the very small sliver, very small sliver of undecideds, that both campaigns are really fighting over, does something like this matter? >> this is something the biden campaign didn't do. there was a lot of frustration amongst the kind of republicans against trump, that the biden campaign wasn't reaching out to them. we've seen a noticeable difference since kamala harris took over the top of the ticket. they've reached out more aggressively, in the belief that everyone, every small sliver, is worth fighting for. now, you know, you kind of look at what's going to be the person who might be persuaded by liz cheney? it is going to be somebody who

is probably republican leaning but finds that january 6th is really the defining issue for them. >> yeah. >> the events of january 6th, the questions around democracy are going to be the things that sway them. but that's also something that kamala harris is not -- they leaned into it after the debate, but it is not something they really wanted to push with. they feel that's looking backwards and not forwards. they're trying to do both. january 6th is a defining issue for you, listen to liz cheney and come over to our side. but they also don't want to talk about january 6th that much because they feel it is looking backwards. so you have to go for every single -- in an election this tight, you go for every single person you can. >> listen, i'm not saying it's not a help, and i'm so grateful for what liz cheney has done for this country, with the january 6th committee, everything she has done and said. it was heroic, and she continues to be. but they've villainized her, and there needs to be more. more republicans need to step up

for this country, well-known, high-ranking republicans. the permission structure needs to be massive because this is a tough slog for the sake of the country. still ahead on morning joe, former trump aide cassidy hutchinson, who was a witness in the congressional investigation into the january 6th attack on the capitol, will weigh in on the special counsel's new filing. first, transportation secretary pete buttigieg is standing by. we'll talk to him about the port worker strike stopping u.s. shipments on the east coast, as well as federal hurricane relief efforts in florida, georgia, and the carolinas, as well as tennessee. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

is it possible to count on my internet like my customers count on me? it is with comcast business. keeping you up and running with our 99.9% network reliability. and security that helps outsmart threats to your data. moaire dida twoo? -your data, too. there's even round-the- clock customer support.

so you can be there for your customers. with comcast business, reliability isn't just possible. it's happening. switch to reliable comcast business internet with security and get started for $49.99 a month. plus ask how to get up to a $500 prepaid card. call today! last thing we need on top of that is a man-made disaster, what's going on at the ports. we're getting pushback already, and we're hearing from folks regionally, they're having trouble getting product they need because of the port strike. look, there is a consortium that continues the ports, from the east coast down around the gulf. they've made incredible profits, over 800% profits, since the pandemic. the owners are making tens of millions of dollars. the last thing they need is to

profit off of this. time to sit at the table and get this strike done. >> president biden yesterday discussing the dock workers strike, now entering its third day, and as he said, stretching from the northeast to the gulf coast. about 45,000 union workers at the ports hit the picket line on tuesday for the first time in decades, looking for a better contract. joining us now, transportation secretary pete buttigieg, his department oversees u.s. ports. let's just start there, secretary butte buttigieg. for people who haven't been tuned in, first, what the dock workers are seeking in the negotiation, and what you see as the impacts, both immediate and long term if this stretches on for weeks. >> yeah, so these dock workers, they're the people who unload the ships, make sure the goods get to where they're going, and on their way to our homes, to stores. they've been through a lot. if you think about covid, you

know, this is obviously not a job that you can do over zoom. they came in every day. some of them lost their lives during that period. what the union is demanding is wages that would help them participate in the enormous profits that the shipping companies have made, especially in recent years. if you start the clock in the middle of the last decade, over about an eight-year period, shipping profits went up 350%. the wages overall of workers in the country went up by about 42%. the wages of these workers only went up by about 15%. their last contract reflected a tougher economic situation. they went certain years without any wage increases at all. so right now, they're gauche negotiating for better wages and terms. them and the ocean carriers and ports, in order to reach a new contract. that has resulted in thisstoppa

it's a big issue. this needs to be resolved. we've been in touch with the different parties, urging them to bridge differences. in particular, urging these ocean carriers which, again, have become extremely profitable in recent years, to put forward an offer that is enough to bring the union back to the table and get this hammered out. >> mr. secretary, now it's already having an impact, but we know many of these companies and supply chains have braced for this, expecting it was coming. as i said, if this continues for weeks and weeks, this could have major impacts on our economy. what do you see those as potentially being, and how devastating might they be? >> well, that's right. the longer this goes, the more economic impact you're going to see. look, if you think about the pace of ocean shipping, obviously, something you're expecting to get overnight isn't something you're sending in an ocean liner. but it doesn't take long for this to really have an impact. our supply chains are all

interconnected. now, a lot of the retailers, the stores, they did see that this might be coming. this is an issue we've been tracking for months. some of them rerouted to the west coast or front loaded their orders and got more things into the warehouses earlier this year. still, you simply can't have supply chains operating well unless these ports on the east coast and in the gulf coast are up and running. the longer this goes on, the more we'll feel the impact. part of how we got inflation back under control, the peak of 9% post covid back to the 2% we're seeing now, is getting the shipping costs under control. part of what was going into the higher shipping costs were the fees that the ocean carriers were charging. they have become unbelievably profitable. there was one year, just a single year, where one of the owners, a single shareholder,

saw his net worth go up by $14 billion. that's one guy. in that same year, that was one of the years when the dock workers did not see a wage increase. so you can see some of the dynamics that are going into the position that the union has and the need to have them participate in that. we think that's doable. bridging that gap will bring benefits for the entire economy, especially, as the president mentioned, when you consider the issue of the disaster relief going on right now. you know, that's already a colossal, colossal challenge. the last thing you need is anything else that would complicate that. >> also the center of the dock workers' concerns is automation. something almost every industry is grappling with right now and how to balance human jobs with automation. you mentioned the natural disaster down through the carolinas, georgia, and florida, and tennessee. i think the devastation gets worse the more we see, as we get cameras and drones into some of these areas. it is breathtaking to look at

this. from a transportation point of view, what are you seeing and hearing as effectively parts of our country have been cut off from the rest of the world? we're seeing collapsed highways and roads and bridges across the southeast. >> the devastation is shocking. certainly, transportation is one of the areas that was hardest hit. one of the things that most needs to be restored. whether we're talking about major routes like i-40 and i-26, still dozens of miles where there are closures there. although it's significantly down in terms of the numbers of miles closed compared to a couple of days ago. we have the interstates. you also have these roads and bridges in rural communities, mountain communities, kinds of places where if a bridge gets taken out, you might be half an hour away or more from the next bridge. so the people who are bearing the brunt of this are really facing the consequences of that. we have been in close touch with

the departments of transportation, of all the affected states. now, including north carolina's d.o.t. they've signalled they're coming in soon with a request for emergency relief funding. we will turn that around in a malt matter of hours because we have to make sure funding is not an obstacle. we have personnel helping with technical assistance, coordination, all the things that could help them. we even have a tool that helps emergency responders get our data on where the routes do exist. if there is a clear route for responders to use to get into an area, where a lot of the normal roads and routes have been obstructed or destroyed by the storm, we're providing that kind of data. i was at the fema command center a couple of days ago, received a briefing alongside secretary mayorkas. the level of coordination and dedication going on out there is incredible, inspiring. but the scale of the damage and the scale of the pain, even now, i think, is only becoming clearer and clearer. it's just absolutely shocking. >> many of these communities

don't even have fundamental needs like running water or electricity. you start there before you even think about the recovery, which is going to take years. transportation secretary pete buttigieg, thanks so much for your time this morning. we always appreciate it. >> thank you. glad to be with you. jonathan lemire, going back to the dock workers' strike for a moment, obviously, there's politics at play. we heard president biden forcefully siding with the workers, saying these companies' profits have gone up exponentially since the pandemic. they need to cut the workers in on some of the success. vice president harris talked about it, as well. what's your sense of how this figures into the campaign, but also into president biden's calculations? >> this is a tricky one. it looms as yet another october surprise, a phase we've used a lot this morning. the biden administration, of course, the president has fancied himself the most pro-labor president perhaps in generations, and vice president harris part of that

administration. they need to be siding with the workers. but they also need this to get settled because experts we've talked to suggest if this strike lasts more than a week or two, it could be real devastating impacts on the economy. when would that be happening? the middle of october, just a few weeks before the election. trump largely stayed out of this, at least so far. certainly, mike barnicle, people on the trump team, look, they're being candid about it, if this strike were to continue, the economy starts to suffer, that's good for their guy. this is a hard one. do we think the white house will get more forcefully involved to bring a revolution? >> depends on the length of the strike, but, yeah, it's a lethal time line politically. what's the timeline involved? how long will it be until you can't get your toyota mini van off the ship? how long will it be before products like toilet paper are starting to get shortened supply in supermarkets because of the

strike? when will we find out the name of the guy who made $14 billion in his own net worth that pete buttigieg mentioned and where he is from? >> in terms of the politics, the labor leader who is authorizing the strike, a trump supporter, has been vocal about it. >> all right. we'll be following this. coming up, we're going to turn back to the new extensive legal filing in the january 6th case against former president donald trump. a key witness in the house investigation into the attack on the capitol, cassidy hutchinson, joins us next on "morning joe."

my moderate to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture. with skyrizi,... ...feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks.

many people were in remission at 12 weeks, 1 year,... ...and even at 2 years. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections... ...or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease or uc. ask your gastroenterologist... ...about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ now approved for uc.

ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

i want to begin by thanking cassidy hutchinson for her testimony today. we are all in her debt. our nation is preserved by those who abide by their oaths to our constitution. our nation is preserved by those who know the fundamental difference between right and wrong. i want all americans to know that what ms. hutchinson has done today is not easy. >> that was former republican congresswoman liz cheney in 2022, commending former trump white house aide cassidy hutchinson for her decision to testify publicly about the january 6th insurrection. last month, cheney, who is still a republican, endorsed kamala

harris in the 2024 race for the white house. on msnbc last night, hutchinson joined the former congresswoman in announcing her own plans to vote for harris next month. cassidy hutchinson joins us now. her "new york times" bestselling memoir entitled "enough" is out now in paperback. it's great to have you back on the show, cassidy. definitely want to talk to you about your decision. but, first, i'm so curious about the process that some republican leaders are going through right now mentally, and i mean that in all seriously. because, apparently, it is still -- donald trump is still not enough, to borrow your title, for a lot of republicans. can you help us understand why? why republicans like you and liz cheney seem so few and far between at a time when things

appear to be pretty extreme circumstances for this country. >> well, thank you for having me back on your show and the opportunity to be here with you all today. in short, i wish i had a straightforward answer to your question because it is something that perplexes me frequently. i don't know why so many republicans, specifically the men, are still cloaking themselves in cowardice, especially in the face of donald trump and jd vance. the republican party is something that is completely unrecognizable from what it wasn't was, but we do have faith in our leaders like liz cheney, who has stepped forward, and adam kinzinger. there are good republicans trying to salvage what is left of the party, but we need more people to step forward. we need more people like mitt romney, who would be willing to make a decision to endorse vice president harris for the presidency. this is a moment that is so much bigger than a political party

and our allegiance to a political party, which led to my decision, which wasn't even really a decision once i had thought about it pragmatically, to endorse not only vice president harris, but once mr. biden, as well, who also displayed remarkable leadership in passing the torch to the next generation of leadership. which is something the republican party also cannot do. i'm grateful for the leadership of liz cheney and people like her, of nancy pelosi, and i have a lot of faith in the future of our country, but we do need to do more in order to come back from the current state of politics that we're in. >> cassidy, what would you say to fellow republicans who might fear that in endorsing kamala harris or even in speaking out against donald trump, they are going to lose what made them a republican in the first place, lose their conservative values. have you found during this process that your sense of being

a conservative has diminished somehow, or do you still see yourself as a conservative, even though you're supporting kamala harris? >> i appreciate the question. i'll be honest, there was a period i went through where i wasn't necessarily questioning my belief system, but i was questioning whether or not i could still call myself a conservative. because i had been a very loyal supporter of donald trump. i had worked for him very loyally. i made this big, dramatic split from what i call trump world. i was kind of struggling with whether or not it was authentic to call myself a conservative. but as time has passed and i've gained clarity of mind, i've realized that, not only am i still a conservative, but i feel more confident and rooted in my conservative principles today than i did when i worked for him. not only because he, in my view, doesn't represent what the republican party and the conservative agenda should stand

for, but because he has warped it in his image. he's warped it with a good addy of enablers who exist in congress who continue to proliferate lies and conspiracy theories to the american people. >> cassidy, you're a young, intelligent woman, who a few years ago, was working just a few feet from the epicenter of american power, the oval office. you saw the president quite often. you saw the people around the president quite often. and then trump exploded, and everything exploded around him. how did it change your life? >> it changed my life in more ways than i can adequately describe. i suppose, in short, at the time, and this is the benefit of hindsight and to be able to reflect, i hadn't realized at the time how quickly i had turned from critical thought to

complete cognitive dissidents. i believed in donald trump. i knew he had a temper, but i believed he was authentic in his character to the american people. the shift between believing that wholeheartedly and seeing how quickly he devolved into madness and complete chaos, his injured pride, how willing he was to throw people under the bus and completely throw away any principles he had in pursuit of power, that's not what leadership is. so i think looking at all of this, you know, out of all the lessons this has taught me, it's taught me that we are stronger when we are united. we are stronger when we're not looking at our nation as an us versus them mindset, as donald trump proppropagates. he needs the fear and control in

order to keep people in his realm and supporting him. but a divided nation cannot stand. that's why i'm grateful to leaders like liz cheney who have not only stepped forward but showed us that, in the face of political cowardice, it's possible to do the right thing, even when it is the hard thing to do. >> cassidy, good morning. it is good to see you. i want to remind people, because so much gets washed away in the flood of news every day, that on january 6th, you were 24 years old. as we learned from that house select committee and all the testimony, everything we've read about this, you were, at many points, the only adult in the room. you were the one speaking truth to power. i'm sure it wasn't an easy thing to do for someone a couple years out of college. you should be commended for that, first of all. i'm curious now, as you step out and say, as a republican, you'll vote, like liz cheney, for kamala harris, what your message would be to other republicans, let's call them nikki haley republicans who live in the suburbs and are tired of donald trump, they don't love donald

trump, they don't like the chaos he brings, but they can't maybe bring themselves to vote for kamala harris, who they see as too liberal. they can't vote for a democrat. what would you say to them, who are either saying, i'm not going to participate, or i'm just going to say, what the heck, i'll vote for the republican anyway, what would be your message to them? >> in normal times, you know, i think possibly it's okay not to vote. i would never advocate not to vote. i think civic engagement is really important, but we are not living in normal times. the reality of this election is that it is going to come down to likely a couple thousand votes in a couple of states. everybody needs to cast a vote this election. we saw what almost happened in 2020 when donald trump tried to hold on to power for himself, when he did not win the election. when joe biden won the election fairly. so when i think about messaging to these republicans, as much as i want to tell them to vote for

kamala harris, from my position, i don't feel comfortable ever telling people how to vote. i know that it is a very intimate and personal decision, and there's a lot that goes into making that decision. but what i will say is, i care about issues like inflation. i would anticipate that there are probably a few issues that kamala harris and i do see eye to eye on. but i recognize that she is a leader that i admire, that stands in principle, that wants to hold people accountable, and that is somebody that is honorable and will cherish our nation and protect our which is something that jd vance and donald trump not only have committed to not being able to do, but have showed that they will not sustain our nation if they win in these next four years. >> i mean, i guess the hope is that the potential, cassidy, for

the republican party to be the party that it once was would be to move donald trump off, you know, the stage, and to perhaps have a harris presidency, but then maybe the republican party can rebuild. you mentioned -- willie mentioned nikki haley, and you mentioned mitt romney. who else could move the meter? you've interacted with these republican leaders, and who they respond to. is there a high-ranking republican that you really wish would step up for the country right now? >> there are many high-ranking republicans that i wish would step up, but overall, mika, i believe that all of us, whether you are a current public servant, whether you know donald trump, worked for donald trump, have been in his orbit, i believe all of us have an obligation to the american people to tell the american people who he is and what he is capable of. we've heard for almost ten years

now who he is. he has told us who he is, but in these next, i believe, four to five weeks, we need more people that are willing to step up and speak truth to power. i understand that it can be frightening. he does create an environment where it's more comfortable to be silent. that's what he likes. he does not want people speaking out against him because that threatens his power, but the only way that we can get through this moment is if we defeat the fear that he has instilled in our society and in our people, and the american people can only vote -- vote for the candidate that they believe is on the ballot. it's our job. -- and it's imperative for us the voter through our experiences, and our view of public service, and how we can come through this moment, and i do believe that we can come back from this. what the republican party looks like in a post-trump era is to be determined, but i do believe strongly that the first step is

defeating donald trump at the ballot box this november, and that also means focusing on congress. he has filled congress with primarily a body of enablers that are willing to enact anything that he would want to do, and he has already promised a second term based on retribution. so as important as it is to keep donald trump out of the oval office, we need to make sure that we're also looking at congress to make sure that the republican party is defeated there as well. >> former white house aide, cassidy hutchinson, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. her best-selling memoir "enough" is available now in paperback. cassidy, thank you. and still ahead on "morning joe," it's been 24 years since malcolm gladwell we leased his book "tipping point" which quickly became a "new york times" best-seller. now he is revisiting the work that propelled him to literary stardom, and he's with us in studio next on "morning joe." we're back in two minutes.

we're back in two minutes.

welcome back. nearly 25 years ago, the journalist malcolm gladwell who was writing for "the new yorker" at the time published his first book titled "the tipping point" which explores the theory that ideas spread like viruses. it was his first of seven "new york times" best-sellers. now gladwell is revisiting the themes of that debut work with his new book, which has the title "revenge of the tipping point: overstories, superspreaders." thank you so much for being here. so what made you decide to revisit this subject, and "the tipping point" itself was largely an optimistic look at the world. this one not so much. >> yeah. it's a little darker. i was -- i was -- we live in darker times. i wrote the first one at the end

of the 1990s. crime was falling. the berlin wall had, you know, had gone away. i was in my mid-30s. the world seemed like a very happy place, cheerful. this time around, i was originally just going to do a kind of light revise on this 25th anniversary, and i realized i had so much more to say. my perspective on many of these issues had changed, and i wasn't full of the same kind of semi-optimism when i first wrote the book. >> malcolm, i don't mean to say i'm a guy that's in love with epidemics, but i mean, there's a lot of epidemic stuff in this book. let's leave covid aside. >> uh-huh. >> and go to opioids. >> yeah. >> do you think the american people are more susceptible being swallowed by an epidemic like opioids than other cultures? >> it's funny. the opioid crisis, i begin and end this book with an account of

the opioid crisis. the summation of the arguments is a revised history of what happened, and i open with a very simple graph that shows opioid overdoses in all the major western countries. what you see is the united states is up here. scotland is sort of close us to, and then you go down a whole -- you get to canada, and then there's a whole bunch of other countries, france, italy, portugal. they basically had no opioid crisis at all. so for us to think about this, one of the big themes of the book is that epidemics of ideas and behavior observe boundaries in a way that viral epidemics do not, and we really need to be asking the question, your question, looking at those country that is didn't have an epidemic, why? it's not because they're richer than us. we're richer than them. it's not because of some obvious -- they don't have lower rates of unemployment than us. in every way, we're probably a more successful economy than

they are. yet somehow they have avoided the catastrophe that this country has gone through. >> you're a genius. what's the answer? why? >> there are many answers, but one is i think that perdue pharma, the company that produced oxycontin was able to exploit some holes in our -- in the way that we regulate painkillers. in particular, they were able to target a very small number of doctors. they realized that a couple of thousand doctors were all they needed to carry their epidemic forward, and they ruthlessly pursued, persuaded, exploited, whatever, manipulated, those doctors, and that same dynamic doesn't hold in other countries in the west. >> so the covid epidemic and the opioid epidemic, i could see why that would make you feel darker. is there something more than that? we spend this whole time on this program thinking there is so

much going on in the world that is not particularly sunny at the moment, but is there -- is there something structurally in the world or in your relationship with the world that has made you less optimistic? >> maybe it's because i'm just -- i'm older. i have kids now. i mean, i worry. once i have kids, you worry about things you didn't worry about before. i have a chapter in the book on a town that is called poplar grove. that's not its first name. it's this bucolic, perfect upper middle class suburb that has had this crisis in its school system over the last ten years or so, and it's a crisis caused by affluence essentially, by the extraordinary expectations that wealthy, highly educated parents have placed on their kids, and that's a kind of -- that's a new kind of problem that's quite specific to america that is occurring in the most unlikely of places. if you visited poplar grove as i did, this is the last place that you would think was being

engulfed by this kind of -- i don't want to give away exactly what's happening there. so that's a kind of -- realizing that sometimes we have problems because we have been successful in other areas is -- that's something that is new to my understanding, and that is kind of central to this book. >> everything malcolm glad yn well writes is a must-read. "revenge of the tipping point" is on sale now. "new york times" best-selling author, malcolm gladwell, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. now the third hour of "morning joe" begins. >> i don't believe that we have the luxury of writing in candidates' names, particularly in swing states, and as a conservative, as someone who believes in and cares about the constitution, i have thought deeply about this, and because of the danger that donald trump poses, not only am i not voting

for donald trump, but i will be voting for kamala harris in this election. [ applause ] >> that was former republican congresswoman liz cheney of wyoming one month ago endorsing democratic nominee, kamala harris, for president. today cheney will appear with harris for the first time at a campaign event in battleground wisconsin. that comes following the release of a new report on donald trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. we'll dig into why special counsel jack smith says most of trump's actions on and around january 6th are not protected by the supreme court's immunity decision. trump meanwhile made more comments about migrants yesterday explaining his plan to deport those in the u.s. with legal status, to deport legal migrants. plus, a day after the vice presidential debate, both running mates were back out on

the train exhale. -- campaign trail. we'll show you what tim walz and jd vance had to say about that final debate moment when vance refused to say whether trump lost the 2020 election. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, october 3rd. happy new year to our jewish friends. along with willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay, co-host of msnbc's "the weekend," former chair of the republican national committee, michael steele, and former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor, chuck rosenberg, and willie, the first line of jack smith's 165-page filing, the defendant, donald trump, asserts that he's immune from prosecution for his criminal scheme to overturn the 2020 presidential election because he claims of entailed official conduct. not so. and he goes on to explain why.

>> the special counsel seeking to make the case, and to pierce the immunity argument made by the supreme court over the summer, and we are now getting an in-depth look at jack smith's election interference case against donald trump. a judge yesterday unsealed smith's filing in response to presidential immunity. smith argues trump was not acting as president of the united states when he sought to overturn his 2020 election loss. although his multiple conspiracies began after election day in 2020, the defendant laid the groundwork for his -- the crimes well before then. smith goes on to write that same day in an implicit acknowledge it that he had no lawful way to prevail, the defendant sidelined the existing campaign staff responsible for mounting his legal challenges, who were telling the defendant the truth that he did not want to hear, that he had lost. the defendant, a private attorney was willing to claim

victory and spread false claims of election fraud. he argues in the brief, trump knew his claims of outcome-determinative fraud were false following election day and throughout the charged conspiracies. the defendant, his coconspirators, and their agents spread lies that there had been fraud in the election, that he had actually won. smith details conversations between vice president mike pence and trump in which pence told trump he had seen no evidence of fraud in the election. pence, smith writes, gradually and gently tried to convince the defendant to accept the lawful results of the election even if it meant the defendant lost. smith also highlights trump's speech on january 6th writing, the defendant repeated the same lies about election fraud in arizona, georgia, michigan, nevada, pennsylvania, and wisconsin that had been publicly or directly debunked. the defendant used these lies to inflame and motivate the large and angry crowd of his supporters to march to the capitol and disrupt the

certification proceeding. the filing from smith details another conversation between trump and pence on january 1st where the former vice president explained he did not believe he had the power under the constitution to decide which votes to accept. trump then told pence, quote, hundreds of thousands of people are going to hate your guts, and people are going to think you're stupid, and berated pence pointedly, quote, you're too honest. smith argues, even if the court determines that these conversations were official, the government can rebut the prupgs of immunity because the use of this evidence poses no risk to executive branch prerogatives. the joint electoral fate of how to accept the election results have no bearing on the function of the executive branch. >> and we fight. we fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> so of course, that is donald trump back on january 6, 2021. chuck rosenberg, so this is 165

pages as mika said. there's a lot to sift through, a lot of detail. it's clear that a lot of the testimony is coming directly from mike pence among other people who were around donald trump, but it seems to me, and i'll let you walk us through and explain the core argument here, that donald trump was not acting as president. he was acting as a presidential candidate effectively when talking to mike pence about these things. >> i think that's exactly right, willie. the supreme court said that certain official conduct is off limits that a president, any president, mr. trump in this case, would be immune from prosecution for official acts, and so the government's brief here styled as a motion for the judge to make determinations about immunity, but the thrust of the government's brief here, willie, is that mr. trump was not acting in an official capacity. he was acting in a private capacity as a candidate, not as a president, but as a candidate trying to secure re-election,

and so all of those 165 pages have a similar theme. they lay out a series of acts, of conversations between the president and private officials for the most part, explaining that the president was willfully blind to the facts that he had lost, that he was urging people to act in fraudulent and dishonest ways, and that he's trying to retain office. all of this is intended to convince the district court judge, the trial judge, judge chutkan, that these are all prosecutable acts, that they're not immune. remember, the supreme court had an easy job, willie. all they had to do was pronounce a rule. judge chutkan has the really hard job. she has to implement the rule and the government is trying to give her a path, a road map to implement the rule in a way that they believe means that mr. trump still may be prosecuted for all of these unofficial acts as a candidate. >> interesting.

so chuck, boy, this goes into the relationship with pence in a big way. the different efforts in different states to try and change the outcome. also trump's tweets making it very clear by the way that it was him tweeting, but he goes through tweets as a candidate, casting doubt on election integrity, tweets making false claims of election fraud, tweets and retweets attacking those speaking the truth about the election, tweets exhorting individuals to travel to washington, d.c. for the save america rally, tweets regarding pence's role on january :00th, the defendant's 2:24 p.m. tweet on january 6th. i mean, it is very specific that these tweets were done by trump, but my question is, how can you separate his official capacities to his unofficial capacities, therefore not immune if he's still -- there's still a

transition that is under way? does that make sense? >> it does make sense, mika, and it's precisely the right question. again, very easy for the supreme court to proclaim. very hard to implement. it's like my ninth grade algebra teacher. she can simply say i have to work harder, study better, and get my grades up. easy for her to say that. much harder for me to do it, and so the supreme court has said official acts are out of bounds, are immune. judge chutkan, you figure it out. you tell us which acts you think are prosecutable. the government is making its case that everything in this 165-page brief is prosecutable. it's all evidence that may be induced at trial, and that could be used by a jury if they see fit to convict mr. trump of the fraud with which he is charged, but to your point, mika, some of this stuff, and i have no doubt mr. trump's attorneys will argue that some of this stuff is official conduct. particularly, right,

conversations that mr. trump had with his then-vice president. so i think it's -- this is a very difficult task for judge chutkan. i was not able to get my grades up in algebra. easy for my teacher to say i should, and harder for me to do. this is just the opening salvo in what will be a long stretch of pretrial litigation. >> well, that was one of my questions. if you thought this was going to be a tough slog to push this absolute judge, but secondly, was there anything in here that surprised you? >> not really. i mean, this reads a little bit like a trial brief or a trial memorandum. sometimes before a complex trial, prosecutors, and i've done this, will file a trial brief telling the district court what they should expect from various witnesses, so there's no surprises. this is not styled as a trial brief. this is styled as a motion for the judge to make immunity determinations, but it really lays out much more of the government's evidence. i don't know that it's all of it, but it's probably most of it

at least in, you know, broad strokes, and so -- and they're doing this because they have to produce a trial, evidence that is not immune. they have to introduce a trial evidence that can be used to convict mr. trump. remember, mika, the government has already superseded their indictment. they've struck from the original indictment, passages that they believe are clearly immune. the government has arrived at a place where they think they have the right stuff and the right balance of stuff, stuff that is not immune from prosecution to push this case forward. now does the judge agree? we shall see. >> donald trump was asked about the unsealing of this brief yesterday, the redacted brief, in an interview last night. here's what he said. >> this was a weaponization of government, and that's why it was released 30 days before the election, and it's nothing new in there by the way, nothing new. they rigged the election. i didn't rig the election.

they rigged the election. >> okay. so jonathan lemire, he said someone else rigged the election. we can sift through that a little bit later, but if you look through these 165 pages, some of the detail which is not terribly surprising based on the reporting we've seen, based on that volume produced by the house committee on january 6th, and on the election of 2020, but there are some moments that stand out as when an aide came up to donald trump on january 6th, as he sat scrolling twitter and watching fox news, and said your vice president, mike pence's life is in danger. the secret service has rushed him. he's not safe right now, and donald trump is alleged to have said, quote, so what? when approached by his daughter, ivanka and her husband jared kushner, confronted, he said, according to this brief, it doesn't matter if you won or lost. you still have to fight like hell. what stood out to you, john, as somebody who wrote an entire book about this day and all the

events around it? >> i mean, you're right, willie. no real surprises in here, but vivid detail, and you just ticked through some of them, trump's utter callousness, and uncaring on january 6th, when there was violence, violence at the point that put his own vice president's life in danger. we have also in here, an unnamed campaign aide from an earlier moment actually saying, make them riot, when there was a disturbance at another campaign office. this was part of the plan, to stir unrest, to fight, to intimidate, to try to overturn the will of the people, and katty, you know, this comes -- donald trump claims this is election interference. two rebuttals to that. first of all, let's remember in 2016, james comey's letter about the fbi investigation came about a week before the election. this is much further out. also, the reason why this is coming out now is because of donald trump's legal team's own delay tactics. the push that they have made and then the supreme court decision about immunity, which jack smith

is trying now to circumvent. so i don't think this quite qualifies as an october surprise, but it is a reminder to some of the americans what donald trump did, what those years are like, what another trump presidency could be like. do you think it will matter? >> i think we've got a lot of october surprises, and there are a ton out there. most of them around the world. i don't think this does count as one. so far, every time that donald trump has had some kind of illegal setback, and i think, you know, what chuck was saying earlier about -- this is a hard slog for jack smith to define whether this was his role as a candidate or a role as a president, given that he was both at the same time. so how do you distinguish between the two? every time he's used it in the past, he's used it to raise more money. on the trump side, they feel this doesn't set them back necessarily. i think it is interesting that this kind of sheds light on jd vance's last few moments of the debate when you hear what donald trump is saying last night, about i didn't rig the election. they rigged the election.

in other words again, saying the election was stolen because it was a fake outcome according to donald trump. that is why jd vance was put in that position at the end of that debate. it's a tough one for him to get through. >> and both candidates talked about that on the campaign trail yesterday. let's take a listen. >> when you're governor, congressman, you're trying to solve problems, you want a straight answer on something. the moment that stuck out was i asked the simplest of all questions, that every single american should be able to answer. i asked him if donald trump lost the 2020 election. [ applause ] he refused to answer. understand in that 88th minute last night with that damning non-answer, senator vance made it clear he will always make a different choice than mike pence made. and as i said then and i will say now, that should be

absolutely disqualifying if you're asking to be the vice president of the united states. >> here's the simple reason. the media's obsessed with talking about the election of four years ago. i'm focused on the election of 33 days from now because i want to throw kamala harris out of office and get back to common sense economic policies. but i also think you can believe that america needs to have secure and free elections, but also talk about the fact that just a couple of weeks ago, democrats in the u.s. congress blocked a piece of legislation that would have ensured illegal aliens don't vote in our elections. if you believe in american democracy, if you believe in our constitutional republic, you should be trying to strengthen american election integrity and not weaken it. >> michael steele, i want your thoughts on this, and i'm curious. i really think tim walz defined the election, defined the choice in that moment during the

debate. as much as you could see vance trying to sane-wash it, there's a lot of use of that word lately, but there are -- there are a swath of voters who are watching maga tv, whether it's fox news, news max, rumble or whatever else they have going on out there, and they're not hearing anything about this or very little. i really feel like the -- the harris campaign needs to get into the arena. they need -- they need top surrogates ongoing on fox news and going to these places and trying to talk to people, and i know that might be hard, and perhaps they're not welcome, but then tell us that. >> right. >> i mean, we need to somehow get the entire conversation out there for all the american people to see, for all the american people to see the facts and the choice. >> so let's attack this a couple of ways real quick.

so the first part of this, you're right. i looked at that debate between vance and walz as two fighters in a ring going at each other. one fighter, vance, for, you know, out of a ten-round bout for nine rounds, was winning on points, right? he was -- >> yeah. >> the judges were impressed by the style, the movements. he landed some punches. he was winning on points. in the tenth round, the guy who's loing on points, landed a knockout blow with one question, which utter will i disqualified his opponent for the office that he's seeking, and that's -- that's a profound moment, and i think that moment will register and has registered with the 40 million-plus americans who watched that debate. coming up, the latest from the middle east as israel continues to launch air strikes targeted at hezbollah facilities in lebanon. nbc's matt bradley joins us from

beirut ahead on "morning joe." beirut ahead on "morning joe." ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me ♪ ♪ control is everything to me ♪ and now i'm back in the picture. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi helped visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and with skyrizi, many were in remission at 12 weeks, at 1 year, and even at 2 years. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how to take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save.

eight israeli soldiers have died fighting inside of lebanon. officials in israel say they don't know exactly how they died, but the soldiers were killed in three separate incidents. these are the first reported casualties since the idf started its ground operation earlier this week. it comes as israel continues to launch air strikes targeted at hezbollah facilities. the lebanon health ministry says

a strike overnight killed at least six people in beirut. meanwhile, the white house now is looking to prevent a wider war after iran's massive missile attack against israel a couple of days ago. the u.s. supports israel retaliating in some capacity, but president biden says he does not want israel to attack tehran's nuclear facilities. joining us now from beirut, nbc news international correspondent, matt bradley. matt, what's the latest there? >> reporter: hey. yeah, willie. actually, the latest is the death toll from those strikes in central beirut has now risen from six to nine, and this according to lebanon's ministry of health. now this struck a health facility that is apparently connected to hezbollah, and this just goes to show that not only is downtown beirut no longer off limits when it comes to israeli air strikes. we saw just a couple of days ago, the first time they struck central beirut, it means that civilian-oriented facilities

that are connected to militant groups are now very much on the menu. so the israelis are expanding their attacks in a big way, not just in terms of geography, but also in terms of just political connections. we've spoken with several people who are connected to hezbollah who said that they don't believe that they can be subject to these strikes because they said they're essentially civilians. they're part of the political arm of hezbollah. now that doesn't seem like it's the case. it looks like that pattern has widened. the target pattern has widened now to include essentially civilians. now we were sitting right here, willie, last night, late before we went to bed when we heard three loud thumps, and we couldn't see exactly where it was hitting. normally as i have been telling you, we have had front-row seats to the terrifying fireworks that have been going on over this neighborhood where we have been seeing thuds and we have been seeing smoke rising from this shiite muslim majority neighborhood that's also a hezbollah stronghold, but again it looks as though the israelis are expanding their attacks. this as we're also seeing the israelis continuing their

incursion on the ground in southern lebanon. that is a situation where we've seen yesterday the first words about that, and then we started to see actual casualties. eight people dead as you mentioned. eight soldiers. now the hezbollah has announced they've continued to engage israeli soldiers. it looks like this fire fight isn't the same in and out we have been seeing in this incursion into lebanon. it looks like it could be a sustained, crawling incursion on the ground where we're going to be seeing this day in, day out, reports of new engagement and new casualties on both sides. that of course, is a disaster for the lebanese population living in the southern part of the country. we're hoping that most of them have managed to get out. the israelis have since always been saying to people, to civilians, please leave these various villages and towns along the border. we don't know if everybody is abiding by this, and we don't have eyes could be there because of the lack of people down

there. we don't know what's going on. we don't know what the combat looks like. we only really hear about it when we get these casualty reports. meanwhile, of course, all of this is happening in the background of the big thing that the entire region is waiting for, which is what will israel's response to those 180 ballistic missiles fired by the iranians, just about two days ago, what will that response look like? and of course, that is what is going to set the tone and the tempo for this really region-wide war that we're now seeing. we have been talking for the past year about the threat of the regionalization of this conflict between iran and israel. now we are seeing it in realtime, and it's up to the israelis to determine whether or not they are going to pummel iran and invite a further escalation or whether they're going to restrain themselves as the biden administration seems to be asking them to do. willie? >> nbc's matt bradley, live for us from beirut this morning. matt, thanks so much as always. we appreciate it. coming up, one of our next guests is taking a look at why maga loves jd vance. "new york times" opinion

columnist, david french, joins us ahead with that new piece. "morning joe" is coming right back. is coming right back

at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your original medicare deductibles, but they may have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. humana medicare advantage prescription drug plans include medical coverage. plus, prescription drug coverage

with $0 copays on hundreds of prescriptions. most plans include coverage for dental, vision, even hearing. and there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs! so, call or go online today to see if there's a humana plan in your area and to get our free decision guide. the medicare annual enrollment period ends on december 7th, so call now. humana - a more human way to healthcare.

♪♪ the former president minimized traumatic brain injuries suffered by u.s. troops while he was president, calling them, quote, headaches, speaking in milwaukee on tuesday. trump was asked about his white house's response to a 2020 attack on a u.s. military base in iraq by iran. take a look. >> do you believe that you should have been tougher on iran after they had launched ballistic missiles in 2020 on u.s. forces in iraq leaving more than 100 u.s. soldiers injured?

>> so first of all, injured. what does injured mean? injured means, you mean because they had a headache, because the bombs never hit the fort? so just so you understand, there was nobody ever tougher on iraq. >> oof. the pentagon says 109 u.s. troops were diagnosed with traumatic brain injuries, that after iran -- a missile barrage in 2020, after that barrage, trump dismisses them as headaches. trump also weighed in on the conflict between iran and israel. >> this has really been bad, but they have to finish that process however it turns out. they have to finish the process. this is a little bit like two kids fighting in a schoolyard. sometimes you have to just sort of let it go a little bit, and we'll see what happens, but that's really caused by a lack of respect for the united states of america. >> oh my god.

michael steele, it's not even funny. >> it's not. >> it's just not. >> it's not. >> first of all, headaches, traumatic brain injuries, big difference. he doesn't care. for anybody who still doesn't get it, he doesn't care about anybody but himself. >> he doesn't care. >> as a solution to the situation in the middle east, let it go. we'll see what happens? why doesn't he add in another token line that he always puts in there? we'll have a solution in two weeks. we'll have health care in two weeks. in two weeks, in two weeks. this man has no grasp on the issues and no answers and no solutions. just pat lines that he turns back to almost like someone who's kind of grasping for an answer. >> he is a fool and incompetent individual who does not read even the briefings that he still gets as a former president on some of these things, so he

needs to have some workable knowledge of events there. he's waiting -- he has to wait to be told what putin tells him to think about this affair because that's where his alliances are. but the most galling and insulting part of this is to minimize traumatic injuries to our servicemen and women who come from iranian missiles, and who as has been reported, have been -- were denied their purple hearts as a consequence to that, because the pentagon was dancing around how not to offend the president because he didn't think it was that important, and these were just headaches, or these were minor injuries, and he didn't want -- here's the galling part. he didn't want that stain on his

administration, where something like this happened on his administration, on his watch, that our soldiers were injured in conflict and now he wants to whitewash it and say, oh. injured. what does injury mean? what does being injured mean? well, it means you get a purple heart for the services that you provided our country, to protect and defend us on foreign soil, to represent our interests, to protect our interests, but that is a foreign concept to this man, and the country needs to wake itself up out of this stupor because this does not get better with him there. he will not solve these problems. he is the progenitor of these problems. he is -- he will be the focal point of the expansion of these problems, because they're unimportant to him, and, you know, we're 30-something days out from an election in which

half the country is willing to put this idiot back in office? are you kidding me? are you kidding me? this is the man who diminishing the public? i don't want to go to that graveyard because they're dead soldiers there? when he's in europe and france? i, you know, i think that john mccain's service -- well, he got captured. no appreciation what that means to have a soldier who gives up coming home because he didn't want to leave his fellow servicemen behind. i mean, this lack of appreciation is a stain on our country when it comes from a president, and i think y'all need to think about this long and hard because you think this is going to be somehow different, that the middle east problem is just going to go away as soon as donald trump is inaugurated, that putin is going to sit back and go, you know what? donald trump is now president. oh my god. let me get out of ukraine? come on. stop being stupid, people. get your head and get in the game and understand what's about to happen.

i mean, the warning signs have been there. the problem is in the house. coming up, we'll be joined by the chairman of wisconsin's democratic party as vice president kamala harris prepares to visit the battleground state today alongside former republican congresswoman liz cheney. "morning joe" is back in a moment. cheney "morning joe" is back in a moment on chewy, save 35% and shop all your favorite brands. for any taste, or any diet, at prices you love. delivered fast. for low prices, for life of pets, there's chewy.

ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

it's our son, he is always up in our business. it's the verizon 5g home internet i got us. oh... he used to be a competitive gamer but with the higher lag, he can't keep up with his squad. so now we're his “squad”. what are kevin's plans for the fall? he's going to college. out of state, yeah. -yeah in the fall. change of plans, i've decided to stay local. oh excellent! oh that's great! why would i ever leave this? -aw! we will do anything to get him gaming again. you and kevin need to fix this internet situation. heard my name! i swear to god, kevin! -we told you to wait in the car. everyone in my old squad has xfinity. less lag, better gaming! i'm gonna need to charge you for three people.

he swings and drops one. out towards right center. taylor back, and it's gone. >> garrett mitchell just sneaking one over the fence for a two-run home run in the eighth inning to break the tie, giving the milwaukee brewers a late lead over the mets. the shot coming from jackson

torio. they beat the mets 5-3, and force a decisive game three tonight in their national league wild card series. the winner of tonight's game will face the n.l. east champion, philadelphia phillies in a best of five n.l. division series starting this weekend. in san diego, new york yankees great kyle higashioka with a solo home run, sparking a five-run rally. manny machado adding a two-run double with the bases loaded. merrill following with a two-run triple as the padres beat the braves 5-4 for a two-game sweep of atlanta. the padres now move on to play their n.l. west rival, los angeles dodgers, which should be a great n.l. division series. in the american league, the baltimore orioles have been swept out of the playoffs for a second consecutive year. royals star bobby witt jr. with

another hit last night. he just does this. he drove in a run in the sixth inning. royals hold on to beat the os 2-1. they now head to the bronx to face the a.l. east champion, new york yankees in the a.l. division series, and in houston, the detroit tigers and the astros were on seven consecutive appearances in the a.l. championship series. banez hit a double in the four-run eighth inning. the tigers sweeping the astros with a 5-2 win in game two of their a.l. wild card series. tigers now take on the a.l. central champion, cleveland guardians in a best of five a.l.d.a. mike barnicle joins us. mike, another great day. only the brewers survived. they play today in that decisive game. the last round left in the playoffs. tonight against the mets. what stood out to you last night? >> what stood out to me last night was a day that was a gift

to america, baseball all day long, all afternoon, and all evening long. given what we talk about on these news programs each and every morning, the hideous nature of our politics, the difficulties of international conflict, especially in the middle east, we need a breather. we need to relax. we need to look at the gift that is baseball, the gift that keeps on giving. you see these young kids, the two best players in baseball. two of the best players in baseball, jackson, 20 years old. they play in kansas city and milwaukee. i mean, these -- this is america. this is what this game is all about, and willie, just one other thing. yesterday i had two conversations with people about baseball. both of them were about a half hour, 45 minutes long, and it was so refreshing not the talk about politics or trump or who's going to happen, who's going to

win, blah blah blah blah, and i can't recall ever having a conversation about a pro football game from years ago or a national hockey league game from years ago, or any sporting event from years ago, but these people got into detailed conversations about things they remembered from 1986, 1975, oh my god. it was so refreshing. >> let's go 45 minutes on baseball right now. >> please. >> certainly, you know, we have one -- really we've got one game left. brewers and mets. mets have had so much magic and it seemed like they were well on their way to a sweep. the bullpen game gave out. that will be a lot of fun. as you noted, next round, we've got a couple of interdivisions. padres/dodgers matchup. tigers/guardians, and most of all, we now have america's team, the new america's team -- >> new york -- >> kansas city royals playing in the bronx against the heavily favored new york yankees.

as mike said, it is time of darkness in our politics. in this time of worry globally, willie, we can all unite behind the cinderella story, the feel-good story of those kansas city royals. coming up, president biden visits the carolinas to survey the storm damage left in the wake of hurricane helene. we'll go live to hard-hit asheville for a look at the ongoing recovery and cleanup efforts. that's ahead on "morning joe." f. that's ahead on "morning joe."

still haven't heard a lot of policies. she didn't tell me how she would make the economy better. >> opportunity economy. that's a great -- that's a great tagline. >> that's harris. >> but exactly what does it mean? >> it means -- what do you fear with harris? >> the fact we don't know where she stands on different

policies. >> and i just don't know harris well enough, her policies are weak for me. >> she is going to go wherever the wind takes her. >> you know, i don't like that woman. i don't know her, but just watching her -- >> those were undecided voters expressing a recurring sentiment that we are seeing a lot of this election cycle. skepticism about democratic nominee, kamala harris. many undecided voters have cited the need for a quote, more information despite harris' nearly four years as vice president, debate appearance, and hesitation could be more about harris' gender than her policies. here to explain, editor of forbes women maggie mcgrath and huma abedin. she is vice chair of forbes and know your value's 30/50 summit. great to have you both. tell us what your team at forbes women found out when it comes to research assessing female

leaders. >> mika, what's really interesting about this specific research is it shows the real-life ramifications of the underrepresentation of women in leadership. effectively what researchers found is when people assess a woman for a role she has never held before, they need to use their imagination. they are bad at using their imagination, according to this research. in one study, researchers looked at almost 30,000 management track employees at a large retailer. these employees had very high performance ratings, but the women were less likely to be promoted than their male counterparts. in a different study, looking at 200 resumes, men got high ratings. when women did the same thing, they were largely dismissed.

this is because as a society we're not used to seeing a lot of women in leadership roles. if you look at the s&p 500, only about 31 ceos are female. if we had more examples of female leadership, people would not need to use so much imagination in assessing a woman's potential to lead. >> huma, we saw a lot of women in the focus groups, and i take it this is a lot of women feeling this way as well. is this gender bias? >> it seems as though ambition is still a bad word when it comes to women. a lot of these amorphous feelings that women are emotional, unlikable, difficult, some other terms that came up in that report, it's like the more accomplished you are, the more suspect you are. there's a term called toll poppy

syndrome. the more you stand out, the more you're criticized as a woman. running to be commander in chief, well, there's no higher ambition than that. so i think some part of it is gender bias. whether it's conscious or unconscious, voters say, i just don't know the reason, i don't like her, like the man in the car saying i just don't like her. that's why focusing on her policies and the work she's going to do is ever more important in the remaining days. >> sometimes what you hear is i just don't want to know, which kind of feeds into what we're talking about here. one month until election day, what do you think the harris campaign can do to win over undecided voters. >> two months into her campaign, she needs to continue doing what she's doing, which is, talking

about her proactive message, particularly what she's going to do when it comes to the economy, making houses more affordable, making pharmaceutical drugs more affordable for americans. the most recent research we're seeing shows that is breaking through. it is neck and neck. it will continue to be neck and neck. i think she's got the advantage in the swing states of having young voters enthused about her and now she needs to get them out to the polls. that affirmative message on the economy shows she's chipping away, calling out the lies. to me, i think they're doing a very good job at staying focused on message. >> maggie, what's the take-away for women leaders, women who are climbing the ladder, facing a similar predicament at work? >> my take-away, is the onus to fix biased environments is not

on those who are most affected. it's on the rest of us. first, let's quantify, define and measure what exactly leadership potential looks like. in a business environment, this might be setting measurable goals for your direct reports and then tracking their progress so you've literally seen the record and can make a decision based on that. the other thing we need to do is look at our own stereotypes that might be clouding our judgment. we should all take a test to measure our own biases. i tried it last night. it's uncomfortable, but once you know the ways in which you're biased, you can work to fix them and hopefully build a more equitable and fair future. >> huma abedin, maggie mcgrath, thank you very much. this was very revealing and challenging. appreciate it. see you guys soon. up next, we're going to turn

back to our top story of the morning, special counsel jack smith's new filing on the january 6th case. we're going to dig into that document and what prosecutors are saying about donald trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. plus, we'll play for you the former president's new comments about deporting migrants who are legally here in the united states, deporting legal migrants. and we'll go live to north carolina for an update on storm recovery efforts, just epic the devastation. "morning joe" is back in a moment. "morning joe" is back in a moment dry... tired... itchy, burning... my dry eye symptoms got worse over time. my eye doctor explained the root was inflammation. xiidra was made for that, so relief is lasting. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra and seek medical help if needed. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort, blurred vision, and unusual taste sensation.

don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. before using xiidra, remove contact lenses and wait fifteen minutes before re-inserting. dry eye over and over? it's time for xiidra. (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply. all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, your acceptance is guaranteed in most states, even if you're not in the best health. options start at $9.95 a month,

35 cents a day. once insured, your rate will never increase. a lifetime rate lock guarantees it. keep in mind, this is lifetime protection. as long as you pay your premiums, it's yours to keep. call for more information and the simple form you need to apply today. there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling. oooh! this is our night! shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. only shingrix is proven over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome

was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today.

presidents' words mean something. presidents' words have consequences. when this nation is in some of the most difficult times, we turn and look for that leadership.

in the heart of the great depression at that first inaugural, franklin delano roosevelt looked at americans who were suffering and to reassure them and bring us together said, all we have to fear is fear itself. and it is a quote that echoes through history because it went to who we are. and what he was talking about was rallying together. when communism was on the spread, when the russian empire was spreading, ronald reagan stood there and said, mr. gorbachev, tear down that wall. and as we -- as, as, as donald trump and kamala harris said on that stage articulating a vision and showing what type of leadership they had, fdr made his quote, gorbachev made his quote, donald trump yelled, "they're eating dogs, they're

eating cats." now, look, i'm with you. i'm with you. if this wasn't so damn serious, it would be funny. but character matters. character matters. [ applause ] >> and kamala harris has it. >> minnesota governor tim walz speaking yesterday on the campaign trail in pennsylvania on the importance of a president's words. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. jonathan lemire and katty kay are still with us. we begin this hour with a new filing from special counsel jack smith which lays out the case for why former president donald trump should be held accountable for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election and his actions on january 6th. capitol hill correspondent

garrett haake has the latest. >> reporter: in a sweeping new court filing the special counsel is shedding new light on his 2020 election interference case against donald trump, arguing the former president is not immune from prosecution, because when he sought to overturn his 2020 loss, pence tried to convince trump to accept defeat and run in the next election. smith arguing they were acting in a private capacity as running mates. on january 6th, as rioters stormed the capitol after trump's tweet saying pence, quote, didn't have the courage to overturn the election results, prosecutors say an unidentified aide rushed to the state dining room to inform trump pence had been evacuated, in hopes he would take action, quote, to ensure pence's safety. trump's response, according to the filing, "so what"?

>> the j6 warriors were warriors. >> reporter: and outlined new alleged private conversations including aboard marine one that trump told family matters that it doesn't matter if you won or lost the election, you still have to fight like hell. prosecutors say trump operatives, quote, sought to cause case i don't say after the election. one unidentified aide told trump there was unrest, was told, quote, make them riot. >> this was a weaponization of government. that's why it was released 30 days before the election. >> reporter: it all comes as jd vance is facing scrutiny after tim walz asked if he lost the 2020 election. >> did he lose the election? >> tim, i'm focused on the

future. >> garrett haake with that report. joining us now, the president of national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation" and birthday boy, al sharpton. and charles coleman is here and chief content and creative officer for "the daily beast" joins us joanna cove. also with us "new york times" opinion columnist david french. good to have you all on board. wow, a lot to talk about. david you wrote about the debate in your piece. i think it's a great place to start, especially given the vice presidential debate we all watched. it's entitled, "this is why maga loves jd vance." you wrote, quote, we've seen all of this before. in 2016 and 2020, mike pence was

the gentleman debater. he was less polished and less effective than vance, but he had a similar softening effect on the ticket. in 2016, his earnest faith and apparent kindness reassured people donald trump could not be that bad, not if he had chosen pence. we know how that turned out. trump chose a man who can simulate decency. that's exactly what vance did tuesday night. but he couldn't keep it together for the entire evening. at the very end, the mask slipped. on tuesday night, voters learned exactly why maga loves vance so much. he's a talented communicator. he has a compelling life story. he can make the idealogical and republican case for republican

populism better than any other politician in america, and he's no mike pence. he would wreck the republican for donald trump. so tell us more, if you can, david, in your piece about the dangers of a trump/vance presidency. >> yeah. a lot of people were really surprised by the debate, that it was civil, it was kind. they treated each other well. it felt like kind of a breath of fresh air for a minute. then you got down to the very end. at the very end vance is challenged about the election. and then we know where he draws the line, where he won't compromise. he's not going to say that the election was fair in 2020. he cast more aspersions on the 2020 outcome. don't be fooled by all of this civility. don't be fooled by all this decency. when it comes right down to it, when push comes to shove and we need to overturn or try to

overturn an american election again, i'll be there with you this time, not like that guy mike pence. at the very end, the whole facade came off. at the very end, everything was plain. all of that civility and decency would slide away in an instant if donald trump demanded it. >> nasty attacks against walz during a campaign stop in the midwest. some say vance won the debate, but lost it with that january 6th moment. yesterday it was underscored by this new filing from jack smith. suddenly january 6th back in the headlines. there weren't a lot of new revelations per se, but a lot of really granular detail. give us some of your take-aways. >> what the supreme court did when they issued their immunity decision is they raised the bar

for prosecuting a former president. they raised the standard, if you will, by creating three different categories of official acts and unofficial acts for which someone can be prosecuted. what jack smith did in response was go through with a fine-toothed comb and identify point by point the different ways in which you cannot make out a plausible argument that donald trump was somehow acting officially. one of the things i thought was brilliant by what they did in their brief was they talked a lot about what donald trump knew and when he knew it. establishing that is a critical element to show this was not something being done in his official capacity as the executive of the united states of america. this is something you were doing as a private candidate who knew you had lost an election. >> wow. so, rev, trump and vance keep saying they want to focus on the future, so let's take a look into the window into the future. in an interview with news nation last night, former president trump said, if he wins in

november, he would revoke the temporary protective status granted to haitian migrants, legal migrants, in springfield, ohio. >> in springfield, what's happening there is horrible. you have a beautiful community, 52,000 people. and about 30,000 people were put into that community rapidly, and the community is so nice and they want to be so politically correct. you have to remove the people. you cannot destroy -- we cannot destroy our country. we had a beautiful safe community. everyone's in love with everybody. everybody's nice. it was like a picture community. all of a sudden in a short time they have 32,000 more people in there. in my opinion, it's not legal for anybody to do. it's not even on a human basis -- it's not acceptable to the people who are there and certainly to the people who are

in springfield. springfield is such a beautiful place. have you seen what's happened to it? it's been overrun. you can't do that to people. they have to be removed. >> we've seen what's happened to it, reverend al. kids have to get escorted to school by police. there are bomb threats. there are people who are afraid to go to work. there are haitians who are afraid to go to work. yes, we've seen what's happened to springfield. but deporting and taking out legal migrants, is it a new low? how would you describe this? what's your reaction? >> it's definitely something that should be extremely troubling to everyone that you have a man who says if i'm president again, i'm going to arbitrarily just deport people. there's no complaints about them. the people in springfield has defended them. the governor says this is bogus, what you're saying. he says i'm going to deport them

anyway. that he can just decide with no process of law -- i mean, i'm not the law here. brooklyn has given us charles coleman, one of our brilliant lawyers. but i can tell you there needs to be at least some due process to deport people. to have that kind of person with that mentality as president is frightening to many of us that believe in due process and having a procedure of law. >> springfield is a population of about 60,000. i haven't seen anywhere there are 30,000 migrants moved in. the most seems to be about 15,000 is the number people are settling on there. again, the numbers matter, because that was affecting the impact of what he's saying. >> it's also interesting to try and understand if there is any logic whatsoever to be applied to donald trump's ramblings.

it's how this actually plays as a strategy. and i think on top of the january 6th report, this is where the bush republicans start to think, okay, this is really too much. if you think what about's happening today, liz cheney is actually in wisconsin with kamala harris. the two of them are campaigning together. this free throw lines like for independents or bush republicans this is too much now. that could be enough in the swing states to ensure kamala wins. >> it's so interesting, jonathan lemire, because this is not the first time we've heard donald trump talking like a dictator wannabe. beyond saying he would be a dictator for a day, he also recently said on stage when he was asked about pardoning the january 6th convicts, people who are convicted of violent crimes they committed on january 6th, he said he would pardon them all. the reporter followed up and

said who would decide if they really committed crimes or they should be pardoned? i mean, just let them all go? he goes, i would decide, i would decide, i would decide. it's all him. it's all the way he wants this country to look when he gets in office. it's just so interesting to hear independent voters go i need to know more about kamala harris when you know this about donald trump. >> donald trump took steps during his first time in office to consolidate power. he's been bolstered by the supreme court, also project 2025, other right-wing think tanks are trying to put more and more power in the oval office so trump would have this incredible leeway were he to be elected again, including deporting migrants who are here legally. migrants in springfield who the

town manager and other residents say have been a boon. they've needed help. they helped revive that town. the governor of ohio has gone to bat a number of times to say how necessary they are. this is donald trump appearing in front of a convict choir and saying he would pardon, by his own decision, those involved. david french, as all these forces come together here at the backdrop, as just noted, liz cheney is appearing with kamala harris in wisconsin today, in fact, the town where the modern republican party was born. do you think this permission structure they're trying to set up combined with the events we've been discussing, is that going to lure some republicans to not just stay home and not vote for donald trump, but to actually cast their ballot for vice president harris? >> some, some. with an emphasis on not very many, but not very many could be

decisive. we have seen in previous elections that once trump starts to hit that ceiling of his support in that 47% range, that even a few thousand people in the suburbs who leave that top ballot blank or switch parties and vote can swing the whole thing. we saw that in 2020 in georgia and wisconsin, some of these republican voters may have ended upswing the whole thing. so it doesn't take me when the election is this close. what makes a difference? almost everything makes a difference. so if you're peeling off some republicans here and there, especially those bush cheney republicans, it's going to matter. but it also does another thing. by reaching out to liz cheney in a very explicit way, it also moderates kamala harris. i think that drains some of the energy from the attack on her that she's some sort of far, far left extremist. there's a moderating effect

there, and i think there's a persuasive effect on a few thousand voters in various places that could actually make a difference in the election. i'm going to move to this news about melania trump. melania recently said in an interview that she did that she sort of runs things with her and donald in the marriage. "the guardian" reports that in her book entitled "melania" due out next week mrs. trump claims she is a passionate supporter of a woman's right to control her own body, including abortion. she wrote, it is imperative that women have autonomy free from pressure from the government. why should anyone other than the woman herself have the power to determine what she does with her own body? a woman's fundamental right of

individual liberty to her own life grants her the authority to terminate her pregnancy if she wishes, adding, quote, restricting a women's right to choose whether to terminate an unwanted pregnancy is the same as denying her control over her own body. i have carried this belief with me through my entire adult life. the former first lady also reportedly defends the right to abortion later in pregnancy, pointing out those cases are extremely rare and typically done when severe abnormalities would result in stillbirth of the child or the mother's life is at risk. nbc news has not obtained a copy of the book and cannot independently confirm its contents. joanna cole? >> well, i mean, melania has asserted control over her own body because she's removed it

from living with donald trump and is now back in new york overseeing baron's education at nyu. this is a familiar republican trope. the wives come out and say they believe in abortion rights, when their husbands who have the power to actually take away women's rights -- and we've seen that by the extraordinary boasting of donald trump of dismantled roe v. wade. when the men have the power to take away the rights and the women simper around and saying they didn't believe it. i am interested in what melania has to say. anthony scaramucci said she absolutely hates him. i think the longer she stays

away from him, perhaps the more she'll regain her sanity. but i don't think we should be taking melania pronouncements on policy remotely seriously. >> it's interesting she decided to go as far as she had in the book. the one thing in the book, according to "the guardian's" reporting, she said i don't talk about politics. later on in the book she has this quite forthright comment on abortion, which doesn't really fit with her protestations that she's not going to talk about politics. it is worth pointing out that one of the most pro-choice groups in the united states at the moment is young men under the age of 40, who have turned out in all those referendums we've had in kentucky and kansas and ohio. they've turned out to defeat restrictions on abortion.

i don't know if melania is talking to those young men particularly. she maybe talking to their wives. she's in line with where the population is. she's just not particularly in line with her husband's politics. >> laura bush came out and made it clear that she was actually in favor of abortion rights when we knew that her husband wasn't. >> there's that dichotomy. also striking to hear from melania trump at all because of how invisible she has been, particularly this time around, only making sporadic appearances with her husband on the campaign trail and it's clear that will continue. >> ivanka also is completely absent from it too, right? in that vacuum, the family women

around him, you've had people like laura loomer move into that vacuum. >> it may be not promotion. it's a great way to sell books. >> skeptical. >> i have a copy on my desk when i get back, which i am extremely excited to read. >> charles coleman and david french, i'll start with you. this 165-page filing, your take-away? what's next with it timing-wise, especially? >> if anyone's expecting anything of substance to happen before the election i would tell you to sort of cool your jets. that's not likely something we will see. but donald trump's attorneys have already begun asking for additional time to respond. because in fairness, jack smith and the doj were given substantial extensions for their brief. what's going to happen next is they are going to look to respond to donald trump, respond

to the doj's brief and argue that many of the acts jack smith has tried to keep in should no longer be there, that they should be kept out. ultimately judge chutkan will make a decision. timeline-wise, i think easily in terms of anything substantively moving, we are looking at the winner of 2025 in terms of anything progressively moves the case forward. >> all right. david french, final thoughts? i'd love to get a sense from you on how to break through to independent voters or even to trump voters who might be a little bit worried about casting their walt for him. you know, there's the firm firehose of falsehoods. i think we have a firehose of frightening possibilities he mentions every day. deporting legal migrants as well

as a day of violence to solve the problem of crime, like a day of terrible violence, like a threat onto our society, i guess, that he's going to unleash what? a police state? i don't know. but my point is i think we should be listening to him, because he's telling us what's going to happen. >> well, you know, these independent undecided voters are people who really don't pay attention to politics much at all. there's this interesting thing that happens when trump really puts himself out in the public again, is he starts to bump against that low ceiling of support. people are reminded why they were tired of him to begin with. so the more dramatic he gets and the more hyperbole he uses at the end of the race, i'm not sure that's helping him that much. it's going to remind people they're sick of all this. they want all this to be over. again, we might see that ceiling of 47%, 46%, which was barely

enough in 2016, not enough in 2020. but he can't be comfortable if he doesn't get above that number. i wonder if this continued angry derangement is going to be reminding some of these independents maybe some things about him that they had forgotten. >> yeah. "new york times" opinion columnist, david french, always good to have you on. msnbc legal analyst charles coleman, thank you very much. and chief officer for "the daily beast" joanna cole, thank you as well. the daily beast podcast is now available each week on thursdays. looking forward to that. coming up on "morning joe," new polling from critical swing states and the significant shift toward kamala harris on issues

that had been among the strongest for donald trump. also ahead, president biden heads to florida and georgia this morning to survey the storm damage from hurricane helene. this comes one day after he visited one of the hardest-hit regions. we'll get a live report from north carolina coming up. we'll m north carolina coming up rich co, and, my favorite touch, it's the only site that always connects you to the listing agent. feels like a work of art! (marci) lovely. what about the app? (luke) uh-oh! look what i did. it's ringing. hello? hello? (marci) they can't hear you. (luke) hello? (marci) because you glued a frame over the microphone. (luke) i think i've glued the frame over the microphone. (vo) ding dong! homes-dot-com. we've done your home work. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right

to read and learn different viewpoints. that's why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i've ever seen. it's people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn.

this is a clear violation of free speech. that's why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms. it is so important now more than ever. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty, for just $19 a month. use your credit card and you'll get this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you're helping to protect the rights of all people. the aclu is in all 50 states, d.c. and puerto rico defending our first amendment right of free speech and all of your constitutional rights. because we the people, means all of us. so please, call or, go online to myaclu.org today.

almost half past the hour. more than 180 people are reported dead and hundreds of others still missing after hurricane helene devastated parts of the southeast last week. president biden surveyed some of the areas hardest hit by the storm. joining us live from just outside asheville, north carolina, is nbc news correspondent sam brock. what's the latest on the recovery efforts there? >> reporter: sure. mika, good morning.

this is one of the towns the water just washed through. you can see the damage as a result. it's sobering and staggering. there is a blue jeep that is a 45-degree angle in a hole in the ground with an x over it, which means it's been searched, and a zero, indicating zero people found inside. over six states and 94 confirmed so far here in north carolina. let me show you a snapshot of how bad the destruction is. this is a hole that goes ten or 15 feet deep. craters like this are littering the highway here. residents have no idea if it's going to be weeks or months before they have running water again. the full extent of helene's toll coming into focus. >> we have no water, we have no power. >> reporter: after the rising

waters ran through these communities. flood waters overwhelmed french broad river, and showed dramatic landslides in the mountains. residents are getting their first look at the storm's devastation. >> there's probably about 8 to 12 inches of mud. >> reporter: in asheville, mission hospital's 100-bed e.r. forced to take care of 200 patients. staff treating the sick and injured in triage tents. >> everything you see on the news, it's worse in person. it's worse. >> reporter: these trucks providing the only access to clean water. >> surgeries and procedures can't go on because there's no water for the doctors to scrub in. >> reporter: hca health which oversees the hospital telling nbc news they have remained open and caring for patients can the storm, adding they are hopeful

infrastructure will be restored soon, but we have contingency plans in place and will continue to take care of patients and colleagues. on wednesday, president biden surveying the damage from the air, saying relief will cost billions, but promising more aid is on the way. while so many have lost so much, for those left with something to clean up, finding even a small memento is everything. just comfort in the little things right now, mika, as we take a look at this live picture of this giant hole, you see efforts to try to replace utility infrastructure, all of this is a multilayered problem right now. we did get a little bit of heartening news yesterday from buckham county that said they had 400 welfare checks

initially. that's down to four in asheville now. it's hard to know how many people search and rescue teams are trying to find as they're combing these mountainous areas. we're waiting for more news on that front. >> nbc's sam brock, we will be following this. thank you very much were your reporting this morning. we are going to turn to politics now, where there is new polling from the cook political report finding kamala harris leading or tied with donald trump in all but one battleground state, all within the margin of error. and there's been some notable movement on some key issues. joining us now with more on that, publisher and editor in chief of the cook political report amy walter. amy, what are the key issues you see movement on? >> yeah.

mika, what we saw in the headline numbers, those top line numbers, not much change between august and september, reallily just barely on the margin. but on the issue of immigration and specifically the issue of inflation, donald trump's lead has either narrowed or in the case completely collapsed. today the two candidates are even on that measure. and on immigration, it's still trump's strongest issue, but it was an issue he had a double-digit lead on in august, and it's now down to a single-digit lead. the good news for trump, though, is for the people who are still undecided in this race or who say maybe i'm going to vote third party, they do see him by a pretty significant margin as being stronger on issues surrounding the economy. what is holding them back in

many cases from voting for donald trump and goes back to the conversation on your first panel is donald trump's personal behavior. so this is the pressure, that sort of cross pressure for these undecided voters about wanting to support trump's policies but not necessarily supporting trump the person. >> amy, this race, of course, couldn't be much closer. your polling certainly reflects that. i do want to zero in on one state that's now listed as tied. that may come as a surprise to some, because north carolina in the last few weeks democrats felt they had a chance to build a bit of a lead because of the snarling with republican gubernatorial candidate mark robinson. robinson's numbers are falling, but it looks like he's not pulling down trump at all. >> that's right. the democratic candidate in that governor's race, part of the reason he's built such a big

lead is he's winning over about 20% of trump voters. so there are supporters now who are happy to split their ticket. they say i'm sticking with donald trump, but i'm not going to vote for the republican for governor, i'm going to vote for this democrat. i think that is something that in a state like north carolina is going to be really important. but we are also seeing interesting -- this play out in other states, this interesting gap. in a state like arizona, where the democratic candidate for the senate ruben gallego building an even bigger lead over kari lake even as the race for president is incredibly close. we may see more split-ticket voting in this election than we're used to seeing in the last couple of cycles.

>> amy, wouldn't that mean in arizona and in north carolina that the efforts of turnout, getting your solid base communities, districts to turn out at a higher level an expected could decide both states in terms of where the presidential vote goes. because the operations on the ground, we don't see a lot from donald trump in either state and we do see some evidence of that with presidential candidate harris. wouldn't a ground operation have major impact? >> yeah. i think in a race that's this close, we're going to look back and point to probably a hundred little things that made the difference between one candidate winning or losing. and it is true if you go back to 2020, a lot of the frustration among democrats that year was they weren't able to do the

on-the-ground organizing and door-to-door campaigning because of covid. they're doing that now. the trump campaign has outsourced a lot of their field operation to third parties, which means you don't have as much control over that. you don't know exactly what's happening and who they're targeting. the one thing we do know, though, at least from the last two presidential elections, 2016 and 2020, is that trump voters tend to turn out whether they get their door knocked or not. and in many cases, it's not picked up in polling either. so trump's been successful in turning out his base even if the campaign itself has not been as efficient as the democrats have. >> publisher and editor in chief of the cook political report, amy walter, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. we're going to turn now to madison, wisconsin. the chair of the democratic

party there ben wickler, great to have you on the show. let's get the latest, especially with liz cheney teaming up with vice president kamala harris today. how is that going to play out? >> we're so excited in wisconsin, because the vice president and liz cheney are going to rip in wisconsin, the birthplace of the republican party back when the republican party was the anti-slavery party calling for change and more justice. at this point the republican party has drifted so far from its best traditions and spirit. liz cheney has been vocal, telling people they need to defeat trump, to put country over party. today she'll be campaigning, i think, for the first time with kamala harris in wisconsin, the state that tipped the last two presidential elections. it's a state with undecided voters who are conflicted. this is a moment where they can

choose patriotism and love of country making a choice for harris, knowing that the water is safe. democrats, independents, this is the time to make a statement about our constitution. >> talk about what amy was talking about just there, which is the ground game. a lot of the us who are grown slightly wary of polls in 2016 and 2020 and even after 2022, one of the things we look at is how efficient the ground operation is and how many offices they have, how many volunteers the campaign might have. in the context of wisconsin, how much of an advantage do you think the harris campaign really has because it has a better ground game in the states? >> i think that having a better ground game on the democratic side makes a big difference for

democrats. we have 50 offices across the state, including dozens in counties that former president trump won, we have thousands of volunteers going out and making calls and knocking on doors to hundreds of thousands of voters where the margin of victory is close. that is all the critical to driving up democratic numbers. we should expect trump voters to turn out. we saw it both in 2016 and 2020. the republican ground operation is kind of a mess. we have to expect a kind of republican turnout anyway. even if the polls were rosy, i would say treat this election as though harris is down by half a point and it's going to take a surge of organizing to get those last 25 voters out. it is hard work.

that's what democrats have to do through the remainder of this election year. coming up on "morning joe," wall street is looking ahead to the all-important september jobs report due out tomorrow. we'll get a preview of what to expect when cnbc's dom chu joins us. we'll be right back. ♪♪

happy 70th birthday, rev. happy birthday. i celebrate the day you were born. you have been overall of your years such an extraordinary leader. you are a voice of truth, a voice of conscience, a voice of practicality around what we must address and what we can do. i thank you so much for your trip. happy, happy birthday, rev.

>> vice president kamala harris with that message for rev today on your 70th birthday. happy birthday, rev. i know it's been kind of a hard couple of weeks for you. we're so happy to have you as part of our family. so happy birthday. >> well, thank you. i appreciate that. you know, there were times in my civil rights activism i never thought i'd get to 70. now i just want to see the country stand for the things that i've tried to spend most of my life for. so i'm very, very energized at 70 years old. >> all right. >> worked out this morning so i could brag to jonathan. [ laughter ] >> all right. happy birthday, rev. let's get to the jobs preview. the fed's highly anticipated rate cut last month, after that investors are now bracing for the upcoming september jobs report set to be released tomorrow. for a preview of that, let's

bring in cnbc's dom chu. what can we expect? >> this is going to the latest piece of economic info that sets the stage for the fed. the jobs number is 150,000 jobs added in september. that would follow the more disappointing 142,000 jobs we saw in august. now, we all right got a bit of a preview yesterday when payroll processor adp indicated private sector jobs grew by 143,000 last month. financial markets tied to interest rates, just for information right now, they are handicapping what's expected to be a quarter percentage point cut in the month of november and another half a percentage point cut in december. jerome powell said the central bank was not on a preset course

for rates and the committee doesn't feel like it's in a hurry to cut interest rates too quickly. meanwhile, the latest take on wall street regarding the ongoing port strikes is interesting as well. this might actually change the entire calculus for what we were just saying about the economy. if the work stoppages continue and goods do not make their way from the ports to the markets, we could see a spike in prices from food to cars to everything else in between. economists more broadly expect some of the biggest expect some of the biggest challenges to hit industries like agricultural products. the early read is that if this is not a prolonged work stoppage at the ports, that the impact to the u.s. economy would actually be rather modest, and that's because west coast ports not affected by the strike could take on some of the east ports.

but all bets are off if this is a prolonged stoppage. some in the industry estimate that it takes about a week to get ports operating at normal levels for every one day or strike. that gives you an idea about the math there. we're going to end on some fun and games. it's a really big business these days. according to multiple reports, guys, the nfl's miami dolphins are in talks with private equity firm aries capital for a deal to sell a 10% stake in the franchise. that news was first reported by bloomberg, and it also involves billionaire investor, joe sai, chairman of alibaba and owner of the brooklyn nets, in talks to acquire a 3% valuation of the dolphins. those reported deal talks are happening weeks after the nfl owners voted to allow private equity firms to take stakes in

franchises. it's going to be a whole new playing field for the nfl with regard to ownership, mika. it's pretty big. >> kind of big. while we're at it, let's go mets. dom chu, thank you very much. the new documentary "leap of faith" challenges us to consider where we can disagree and still belong to each other in a divided world. we'll be joined by the film's award-winning director, nicholas ma, along with his father, famed cellist, yo-yo ma. that is all on "morning joe." we're back in two minutes. e bac. s everything to me ♪ and now i'm back in the picture. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi helped visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining.

and with skyrizi, many were in remission at 12 weeks, at 1 year, and even at 2 years. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how to take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save.

the fact that we disagree is not insurmountable. >> we'll find a way through together. >> preach preacher. >> i was holding this thing together out of a fear of institution fail, not for love of my children.

>> i think being in a relationship with these 11 people has changed me. >> what would it mean if all of the polarization, fragmentation, and conflict were actually this amazing opportunity for the gospel? >> it's a story about love. can people actually love each other? beyond tolerance. >> that's a holy thing. >> whoa, that's a look at the new documentary entitled "leap of faith." the film follows 12 pastors of varying theological and political persuasions from grand rapid, michigan, as they are brought together on multiple retreats in an attempt to find common ground on issues such as gender equality, racial tension, and political polarization. joining us now, "leap of faith"

director and producer, award winning film maker, nicholas ma, and his father, acclaimed cellist, yo-yo ma who has performed at special screenings of the film. thank you both for coming on. nicholas, congratulations on this. i'm fascinated to hear the pitch of this. like, how did you do that? but more importantly, where were you surprised and found success and connection and perhaps were there failures along the way? >> sure. i mean, i think the failures are necessary for the successes, right. we're so afraid of failures that often we sort of shy away from trying the thing that seems hard. i think about the movie as almost like having children, right, you dive into it, and you have no idea what's going to happen. everyone tells you it's hard, but it's beautiful, and i feel like that's what these pastors found. it's hard but it's beautiful. we need that right now. so often well like these

differences are cosmic and we can't cross them. the wholeness at the end of a concert everyone feels, i don't know what you're thinking but i know we're feeling the same thing. somehow that's what these pastors achieved at the end of this year together. >> nicholas, i grew up in the pentecostal church, and i knew a lot of ministers growing up that just believed if you didn't follow the dogma exactly the way they believed, you were going to hell. how do you reconcile people that are just my way or the highway with this kind of spirit that you're trying to bring about in terms of reconciliation? >> sure, i mean, i think there's always going to be a chunk of people that don't think that engaging is a good thing to do, and that's a really hard thing to contend with. i think it's a much smaller group of people that we believe. in 2016, one in six family members stopped talking to each other because of the election, right, and at the same time,

after the screening on monday, i know four families that reunited, that found each other again. there is a way back. there is a way through, and i think when we sort of assume that people don't want to engage, we assume the worst of them, and we can't imagine loving them, and we can't imagine that they could love us, but that possibility of staying in relationship is really, i think, what it's all about. it's what we're all about as a country, and it's what, you know, this film is about. >> beyond being the proud father of nicholas, and playing at special screenings of the film, i was wondering whether -- and nicholas referred to it a little bit there about music and whether you have seen an increase in polarization in your audiences in the united states over the last few years, and whether you feel music that you play has that ability as nicholas described to bring some sense of transcending political divisions amongst people? >> i think that's such a wonderful question. as i was watching the film, i was thinking, you know,

essentially the pastors were building trust between -- amongst themselves, and i think the ritual of concert playing, performing is not unlike a sacred ritual where you're there, first of all, to build trust. you can't perform with fellow musicians without trusting one another, and secondly, there's something that's almost, you know, between secular and sacred in a performance venue where that does not tolerate dissent because we're under a larger umbrella. and i think, by the way, happy birthday, rev, it's so wonderful that we're all together in this group. but i was so -- what i felt watching the film was that there

are a lot of people who are confused and lonely. the surgeon general says we're having an epidemic of loneliness, and what it did for me, the film brought me hope and solace, and that's exactly what i hope happens when i perform. i hope that answers your question. >> the new documentary "leap of faith" premieres tomorrow in theaters nationwide. director and producer nicholas ma and acclaimed cellist yo-yo ma. thank you both very much for coming on the show. congratulations on this. we appreciate it. that does it for us this morning, we'll see you tomorrow. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports," donald trump lashing out, angered by a bomb shell court filing by the special counsel. the new evidence laid out by jack smith who said trump resorted to crimes to sta