in the context, erroll has in the way only erroll can as a filmmaker of decades of bipartisan deterrents-based policy. what donald trump did wouldn't have been possible were it not for democratic administrations treating immigration as a deterrents policy, something to punish and harm people from coming to the united states to do and that's how we ended up with the separation policy, where we are today. there are a lot more questions to ask which is what erroll does magnificently. >> jacob, it might have been a slippery slope from one administration to another. >> i'm going to tell everybody go to your screen right now, there is a qr code, you can watch the documentary and join me and jacob and erroll for a conversation about the film tonight. we're going to get into more of the slippery slope, et cetera. tickets can be bought here, there are also other showings at new york's ifc center through october 10th. that will do it for me today.

"deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪♪ ♪♪ hi, everyone. happy friday. it's 4:00 in new york. 32 days to go before election day in america and this is as a vast and growing coalition of patriots throwing their formidable political weight behind vice president kamala harris looks and sounds like today. >> i am a ronald reagan conservative. i tell you i have never voted for a democrat, but this year i am proudly casting my vote for vice president kamala harris. in this election a broad coalition has come together to support vice president kamala harris. now, we may disagree on some things, but we are bound together by the one thing that

matters to us as americans more than any other, and that's our duty to our constitution and our belief in the miracle and the blessing of this incredible nation. i ask you to meet this moment. i ask you to stand in truth, to reject the depraved cruelty of donald trump, and i ask you instead to help us elect kamala harris for president. >> that's former congresswoman liz cheney in ripon, wisconsin, it is the birthplace of the republican party. she's making the case for why she, a life-long conservative, the daughter of arguably the most conservative public figure in modern american political history, will cast her vote for vice president kamala harris. arguing that her fellow card-carrying republicans and other life-long conservatives should do the same.

a very public, a very prominent permission structure 32 days out from the election that could very well tip the scales in november. what liz cheney did with that speech, again, in the birthplace of the republican party in wisconsin, one of a handful of states that could decide the election result, is to unleash a blistering argument as to why any republican, any conservative, any patriot cannot and must not cast a vote for donald trump. >> in this election putting patriotism ahead of partisanship is not an aspiration, it is our duty. donald trump was willing to sacrifice our capitol to allow law enforcement officers to be beaten and brutalized in his name and to violate the law and the constitution in order to seize power for himself. i don't care if you are a democrat or a republican or an

independent, that is it depravity and we must never become numb to it. what january 6th shows us is that there is not an ounce -- not an ounce -- of compassion in donald trump. he is petty, he is vindictive and he is cruel, and donald trump is not fit to lead this good and great nation. >> wow. unfit, petty, vindictive, cruel. liz cheney called out donald trump's depravity and called it what it is, disqualifying, and now after marshaling the political star power of one of the republican party's biggest figures, vice president kamala harris and governor tim walz are deploying someone who is unrivaled in the democratic party's political arsenal, barack obama. >> the people who will decide this election are asking a very

simple question, who will fight for me? who is thinking about my future, about my children's future, about our future together? one thing is for certain, donald trump is not losing sleep over that question. we do not need four more years of bluster and bumbling and chaos. we have seen that movie before and we all know that the sequel is usually worse. >> today was announced that former president barack obama will hit the campaign trail for vice president harris and governor walz across battleground states beginning with the campaign stop next thursday in pittsburgh. as "the new york times" put it, president obama is, quote, joining the final push to deliver vice president harris a

victory, starting with perhaps the most consequential battleground state of the election, pennsylvania. and adding to his singular star power, a coalition alongside patriots of every political strive, the likes of which the country has never witnessed in the context of a political campaign. we should say vice president harris is in michigan today. earlier she spoke to a labor union in detroit, a short time from now vice president harris will deliver a campaign speech in flint, michigan, where she will be joined by basketball legend and michigan native magic johnson. another spoke in the ever broadening and growing harris/walz coalition. it's where we start today with my colleagues yamiche alcindor in flint, michigan, ahead of the vice president's rally tonight. also joining us former republican congressman and msnbc political analyst david jolly is here and with me at the table the reverend al sharpton host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action

network. yamiche, i know it's loud where you are. we are giving you the chance to multitask and pay attention to us while events unfold behind you. we will thank you in advance. it isn't just editorially fascinating that liz cheney is now on the campaign trail for the vice president, it is politically imperative, right, that the harris campaign assemble this coalition that is incredibly electric to all the vibrant and vital parts of the democratic base that they all turn out and feel excited, but that she also brings over independent and republican women and men. they seem to be very comfortable campaigning alongside liz cheney, which is remarkable in and of itself. >> reporter: it is remarkable. when you look at sort of all of the different things that the harris campaign is trying to build together to try to win this race, which is, of course, polls show incredibly close. now, for me i just think of the

last few days. i was just in wisconsin watching liz cheney come out to chants of "thank you, liz" by a large group of people in wisconsin and then today just a little bit off camera here there's magic johnson talking to reporters. of course, a native of detroit, trying to bring in voters who might be undecided and recognize him as someone who they respect and whose star power brought a lot of real joy to detroit. it's interesting because the harris campaign is trying to build this coalition and i've been talking to a number of people including cedric richman who is a co-chair of the campaign. they're trying to lean in to aggressively attack donald trump because their interim polling and data shows there are a lot of persuadable voters who want to both hear from people like liz cheney talking about why people should put country over party, but also because some of those voters want her to define herself, vice president harris, they want her to explain what a harris administration would do

and also want her to in some ways really explain again why she sees donald trump as unqualified to be president, which is why we're going to see more and more ads talking about how he might raise the retirement age going after sign yors or how he might mass deport people who are helping revitalize places like spinning field, ohio. it is a big, big test here she's trying to do it, a lot of these people who show up she's hoping they will be moved to do and go to the polls. >> it is such a nerve-racking period in any campaign, but i want to focus on what you're talking about. the case against donald trump. here is, again, extraordinary that these messages, the same message coming from, you know, arguably the biggest star in the democratic party and a name synonymous for generations with the republican party. here is liz cheney and president obama. >> the other day i heard someone compare trump to the neighbor

who keeps running his leaf blower outside your window every minute of every day. now, from a neighbor that's exhausting. from a president, it's just dangerous. >> i cast my first vote ever in 1984 for ronald reagan. in other words, i was a republican even before donald trump started spray tanning. >> yamiche, i picked those out because i think they show not just the power that each -- that liz cheney and president obama have in their own circles of influence, but the special thoughts that they have. the ability to spoke donald trump in a way that donald trump isn't capable of not responding. they can goad him, they can send him off message, they can send

him spiraling into days of angry all caps posts on his own social media platform, and at a time in the campaign season where every day's news cycle counts, that is an added benefit to their star power. >> reporter: it's an added benefit in the eyes of harris campaign aides that i've been talking to and it's also sort of echoing what vice president harris tried to do and what her campaign believes she successfully did during the debate which is needle donald trump. remember, she called him boring and said that he was fired by millions and millions of americans. it was that kind of messaging that they felt like really made her shine during the debate and made former president donald trump not want to do a second debate, which is what vice president harris is saying she wants to do. she's going to see -- you're going to hear more of that leaning into humor, leaning into joy, but you're also, again, going to be really trying to draw the harris campaign a really sharp contrast to former president donald trump because they do believe that undecided

voters will also be moved by that. the other thing that i've been hearing from folks is that they want to see michelle obama, former first lady michelle obama out on the campaign trail. we are not sure where she's going to be but i remember as soon as the vice president became the top of the ticket someone told me we hope that they park michelle obama in a place like north carolina or georgia and just have her talk to people over and over again. so there is some hope in the democratic party that you also will see the other obama who some people say even delivered a better speech at the dnc talking about the idea that former president trump was maybe going after black jobs, going after that sort of meme and that moment where a lot of african americans and a lot of people around the country were laughing at donald trump saying that immigrants were taking, quote, unquote, black jobs meaning possibly menial jobs. it became a running joke among a lot of african americans. it is feeling like an all hands on deck election because the polls are so close and because even in the last few days we saw the firefighters union choose not to endorse vice president

harris or former president trump, which is seen as a blow to harris because they were one of the first unions to back biden. nicolle. >> david jolly, i think yamiche is absolutely right. the polls show this is a very tight race. it is the assessment as yamiche is reporting inside the harris campaign this is a very, very tight race where every single news cycle matters, where every single door knocked on matters, where every single strategic decision could have implications on election day, where people are already voting. so everything that's happening in this context, in this climate, could be influencing someone's choice. let me show you what the vice president had to say in detroit today en route to flint where yamiche is now. >> we will not be fooled, we will not be gaslighted. donald trump's track record is a

disaster for working people, and he's trying to gaslight people all over our country. but we know the facts and we know the truth. he is an existential threat to america's labor movement. just look at his track record to know. he said he was the only one who could bring back america's manufacturing jobs. then america lost nearly 200,000 manufacturing jobs when he was president. making donald trump one of the biggest losers of manufacturing jobs in american history. >> again, this campaign making very thoughtful and very strategic decisions at this point because they know they have to. >> that's right. nicolle, i think those remarks really shed some light on the diversity of this coalition that we were just talking about with

liz cheney and others because i bet liz cheney would disagree everything vice president harris just said there. liz cheney understands it's not just about the danger to the constitution. there's something more impactful and controversial about the liz cheney piece of this coalition with the vice president harris who is talking about donald trump busting unions because liz cheney would probably be okay with that part, but the controversial part is this, liz cheney stood in front of that crowd and said i'm a ronald reagan conservative, but she was also a donald trump republican. she stuck with him in '16 and '20. when donald trump said, russia, are you listening, invited vladimir putin to tamper in the 2016 election, when he called for the muslim ban, when we learned about the "access hollywood" tape, when he got impeached for the russia/ukraine scandal to try to interfere in the 2020 election liz cheney was with him. liz cheney supported his appointments to the supreme court. liz cheney supported his tax

cuts. it was only because of january 6th -- only because of january 6th -- that she broke. she was not a never trumper. she is now a trump is dangerous and that is actually intriguing. that's not to slight liz cheney, it's to suggest that this coalition of people who are trying to beat donald trump is broadening because you have vice president's core message around values for an economy for all people. traditional democratic progressive values to lift up all people with access to the economy and health care and education. you have that traditional piece of the coalition. you then have this coalition of never trumpers that when they heard donald trump in '15 and '16 and '17 and so on say absolutely not, i'm not a part of this party, but then you have this liz cheney lane. that was a part of the party all the way to january 6 and that makes her voice maybe the most powerful of all to say, wait a minute, i actually was with donald trump with all of these things. she's more like someone who worked in the white house maybe to try to temper his worst impulses but stuck with him, was

part of his team. then when january 6 came she said, this man is a threat to the constitution. that is a powerful message from liz cheney. and so vice president harris is in a great spot where she can talk about the threat of trump's populism and ideology towards working class voters, towards people who want to participate in america for all people, while liz cheney ignore the ideological part and simply say to republicans who may have been with trump all along, wait a minute, he's dangerous to our democracy. he is willing to shred the constitution to advance his own cling to power. that's a broad coalition and you know as well as anyone in politics it's about addition not subtraction. vice president harris is adding to her coalition right now. donald trump is not. >> i mean, i think the other thing, rev, that's important strategically to build on what david jolly laid out, is the coalition building, right, is the quilt and that's about stitching the quilt, but the mood and the moment in which people vote is about lifting the

whole quilt up and making people understand that this is not business as usual. you know, the house that's on fire. and this is not a static climate. this is a moment where every single day if the harris campaign can help a large swath of voters understand, who may be undecided not between trump and harris, but whether or not to vote. who may for whatever reason feel distance from our politics all together. but what liz cheney, i think, does for the harris campaign at a strategic level is she lifts this moment out of republican/democrat to, oh, my god, what is going on that liz cheney is standing next to the democratic nominee for president. it puts the context back into this moment unlike any other. >> there is no question about it because not only is the quilt now having different patches, the ability to raise it is to say that we are broader and we all are going to freeze to death if we don't cover ourself with

this quilt. it is not a normal campaign and the more that we make it clear to people that this is not just you're hearing your regular people come out, but that there is a three-alarm, five-alarm fire here that will burn down democracy, that's where your extra vote is going to come. things feel good on the ground sometimes, but it felt good with hillary clinton, but you're bringing in with liz cheney, that's why the liz cheney factor is so important. something hillary clinton never had, something barack obama never had. >> that's right. >> and i think that that needs to be raised up even more so because if you do regular things you're going to get to the same regular result. this is not regular. this is unprecedented and it needs to be emphasized. >> i think that's right. we need to sneak in a break but i want to pick up where you left off because i think it's also the strategic frame that -- the campaign made this choice, yesterday, right? it's not just showing up with liz cheney, it's showing up at

the birthplace of the republican party. >> that's right. >> to look at republican voters and say, this is not your party. this is this maga perversion of this thing you love. liz cheney, that's your party. i want to ask you -- i want to ask you how that sort of -- we will keep the quilt going, but i want to ask you how that all stays stitched together for 30 days. no one is going anywhere. also ahead for us, caroline giuliani has endorsed vice president kamala harris, she joins the program with a dire warning about donald trump and the havoc he can wreak on people's lives and the country. later in the broadcast a new documentary based on the intrepid reporting of our colleague jacob soboroff pulled the curtain back on trump's depravity in one of the darkest chapters of the trump presidency, the cruel and inhumane policy of literally separating very young children, infants in some instances, from their moms and dads at the border. jacob will join us along with the maker of the film, acclaimed

documentarian erroll morris. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. e that leap in our hearts. into something we can see and hold. etsy. a chewy pharmacy order is en route for summit who loves the outdoors. so her parents use chewy to save 20% on their first order of flea and tick meds. delivered fast, so summit never misses a dose. or an adventure. for quality meds. for life with pets, there's chewy. hi, my name is damian clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. most plans include the humana healthy options allowance. a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible

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now with vitamin d for the dark days of winter. history teaches us again and again that democracies can fall. they fall to populists, they fall to strong men. strong men who beguile their fellow citizens with conspiracy theories and false emergencies. as my friend the late charles krauthammer taught us, the lesson of our history is that the task of merely maintaining strong and sturdy, the

structures of our constitutional order, is unending. it is the continuing and ceaseless work of every generation, and that responsibility now falls on all of us in this election. >> what's interesting about the harris campaign in this moment is they figured out something that i think the rest of us have sort of grappled with for mine years and that's where to put this democracy versus autocracy issue, and it is -- it is sort of the -- you know, the fan, right, that's blowing around all of us. it's the storm that's coming. and i think what the harris campaign has done is they've laid out the issues so artfully. they've been telling her story in a way that resonates. every pollster says the more people see and hear from her the more kamala harris' approval rating goes up, the tighter the polls get. when you have someone like liz cheney and i expect president obama will do the same, making these arguments about the moment, it lifts up everything

that the harris campaign has been doing. >> absolutely. and you have to lift it up so that more people are -- that are not in this tent, republican that tent, democrat that tent, independent, is saying, wait a minute, this is about me. and i do not think you could have had a better person to drive that home than liz cheney. and i never thought i would live to say that about any cheney. >> i was trying to keep a straight face. >> right. but because this being someone that is the political opposite of many of us saying, wait a minute, we can lose a democracy -- it's one thing for a democratic governor to say that or even some of us in civil rights. this is liz cheney, dick cheney's daughter, third in leadership of the republicans, who as david said, supported trump. she's saying it. if this gets the attention of people that are tired of

politics as usual because now it's not about politics as usual, it's really about the democracy of this country being sustained. >> you know, david jolly, i'm late to fully appreciate how well worn the disinformation is around some corners of the electorate that they're going to need to turn out for this pro-democracy coalition and sara longwell calls it the manosphere. people are luld into normizing donald trump or into th need for voting. this need to lift the moment up, for the dire emergency it is for campaign. our w of lif >> it is. and i think that's the power of the liz cheney moment. and i know it often can sound like i'm dragging her. i mean, she was not an original to the never trump movement, in fact, many never trumpers fought against the likes of liz cheney and mitch mcconnell and kevin

mccarthy, the republicans who knew better but they stayed with him. what's sometimes hard to relate to, the power of what she's doing, is so many republicans today are right where liz cheney is. they were okay with trump's policies, they were fine with it. maybe it didn't fit right with reaganism but it felt good enough to them that they stuck with trump through everything and they want his policies. but when it comes to protecting the constitution torques actually have a voice like liz cheney say, wait a minute, our guy, my guy, tried to tom the constitution, tried to tom the country for his own power on january 6, he must be stopped, that is a different message than what you hear from vice president harris. sure, vice president harris talks about protecting democracy, but she's got more to say about it. you know, in the vice president harris message she can talk about the fact that you don't get to experience a free and fair economy without a working democracy, you don't get to debate reproductive rights without a working democracy, you don't get to fight for the right to unionize or get to talk about

ac health care or housing if you don't have a healthy democracy. notice in liz cheney's speech she doesn't talk about any of those issues. a baseline of hers is that she disagrees with vice president harris on all of that. being able to isolate the raw danger of donald trump, liz cheney gets to speak specifically to trump republicans. she is not the disaffected republican who never went along, she was a trump republican it's not to pen great her, it's her as the messenger to say republicans you know better, you know donald trump is a danger. trust me, i'm liz cheney, i've been with you all along. that's a persuadable voice in this arena that vice president harris is certainly fortunate to have. >> >> the big piece of this that is a strategic imperative for the hayes ris candidacy is the economy, among female voters

vice president kamala harris has closed the gap in terms of trust in the economy. this is from today, quote, job growth accelerated in september and the unemployment rate ticked lower. employers added 254 thost jobs last month, significantly more than exists expected and, mark, the largest monthly increase since march, the unemployment rate 3.4%. this may be the data that they have the most time and running room to make sure they get in front of voters looking at the november election. tell me their plans for highlighting that. >> reporter: it's really interesting. the vice president is having to balance the idea she wants to talk about how well the economy is doing on paper.

or unemployment rate being low. people are still struggling at home. she continues to sort of try to balance that. and the strategy really is to continue to tell voters i hear you and i see you. i want to not just look at numbers and say, hey, this graph looks good for the economy. i also want to tell you here is the best way to get higher wages, the best way to lower gas prices and lower grocery prices. she understands that for voters especially the persuadable voters, undecided voters that their internal data they're saying it's still out there to be won. they realize they need to be -- that she people really understand they have a president -- a possible president in vice president harris that will really try to understand their pain and i think that that's the thing that i think is going to be really, really hard and a challenge here. when i talk to voters they say, okay, yeah, unemployment is hard but how many times do i have to have an interview before i get a job and what's a good-paying job? how hard is it to get one of those? also how hard is it to get a

pension or savings for retirement? even if the numbers on paper are good just talking to voters and talking to campaign officials there's a lot of work to be done on how to translate into every day people's lives. >> before we let you go what is happening behind you? how many people are expected? who is speaking? tell us about what's happening behind you. >> reporter: you mean the elephant in the room, the loud crowd? >> we can't ignore them anymore. >> reporter: right. this is a very big crowd. there was a sign that says a new way forward. also michigan for harris and walz and freedom for michigan. this is really going to be a campaign where she's going to be trying to hammer home the idea she is not just going to be good for all americans but specifically michigan. she is going to talk about the fact that j.d. vance a running mate of former president donald trump that he is not submitth committed to giving the $500 million grant that president biden said he would give to general motors to build and convert a factory building

cadillacs into electric vehicles. she's going to say i'm going to be looking out for union jobs and make sure that that $500 million comes to michigan. she will be drawing that contrast to j.d. vance and former president donald trump and it is a ruckus crowd. many told me to tell you hello, a lot of big msnbc watchers here excited to see vice president harris and also excited to see you, nicolle. >> yamiche, you are a superstar, able to listen and talk with us while that's all going on behind you and covering it without miss ago beat. thank you for starting us off. david and rev, stick around for the rest of the hour. between the election and the start of a new supreme court term it's going to be a very, very busy stretch here for legal moves, for all the news and analysis sign up for the deadline legal newsletter. just follow the qr code on your screen right now. if you have any questions on any of the complicated legal issues and stories we cover, send them our way for a chance to be

featured in the next week's newsletter. coming up for us, a plea from deep inside one family, the daughter of trump attorney rudy giuliani who writes, quote, trump took my dad from me. please don't let him take our country, too. she'll join us next on why she's endorsing kamala harris. t on whs endorsing kamala harris. have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further! safe step's best offer, just got better! now, when you purchase your brand new safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package. yes, a free shower package! and if you call today, you'll also receive 15% off your entire order. now you can enjoy the best of both worlds! the therapeutic benefits of a warm, soothing bath that can help

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where we can't even going to thanksgiving dinner with our uncle because you end up in some weird fight that is unnecessary. i think people only laugh if they are not in those fights. imagine a thanksgiving or a holiday or any occasion in 2024 without any of those weird fights with your father or your uncle or cousin. what if your father is, for instance, someone like rudy giuliani. that is the uniquely painful and complicated situation. our next guest finds herself in. to the world rudy giuliani is, among other things, donald trump's former attorney who according to special counsel jack smith's filing out just this week a desperate donald trump turned to because he knew giuliani was, quote, willing to falsely claim victory and spread knowingly false claims of election fraud, end quote. to caroline giuliani he's also her dad. her dad who she feels she has lost to donald trump.

caroline writes this in a brand-new piece for "vanity fair," quote, watching my dad's life crumble since he joined forces with donald trump has been extraordinarily painful. both on a personal level and because his demise feels linked to a dark force that threatens to once again consume america. take it from me, she writes, trump destroys everything he touches. i saw it happen to my family. don't let it happen to yours or to our country. kamala harris will guide us into a brighter future, but only if we unite behind her. joining us now is caroline giuliani, david and the rev are still here. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> what is this like to be telling the truth about loving your father, but also using -- using your platform to endorse kamala harris? >> yeah, it was -- it was really challenging to figure out how to express these feelings and figure out if i had the strength

to share them, but i think for a lot of this election i've been watching with so many americans in disbelief and horror at the idea of a 34-time convicted felon who refused to participate in the peaceful transfer of power being so close to the presidency again, but that disbelief also paralyzed me for a while. i think there just came a moment where i was thinking about my future children who i very much hope to have and i saw these two paths for our country, one under donald trump, which was full of destruction and cruelty, and one under kamala harris in which women can have autonomy over their bodies again, in which our government recognizes that climate change is real and is doing something about it, a government who respects gay people and trans people and people of color and women and people with disabilities and doesn't treat them like second-class citizens and also a government that remains a

democracy because that will not happen if we elect trump again. i think it's really important to remember that this is about so much more than the next four years because the type of damage that trump will inflict a second time around may not be reversible. i don't think it's something we will be able to just fix in four years. he will change the fabric of our institutions and that is something that we may not be able to come back from. >> caroline, how does he get people like your dad to help him do all those things? >> you know, i can't really speak to what is in other people's minds or why they make the decisions that they make. i think power is very alluring, but i think the more important question is why he's caused such

division among so many families in this country. i mean, you were just talking about it before i came on and it's really true, this is so relatable, having this chasm in your family over trump. and the reason for that is because he spews toxic cruelty and when you are a woman or a person of color or a gay person or a trans person and someone that you love supports a man like that, it is really hard to reconcile that support with their love for you. so i want healing for our country and i do want us to find the common humanity in one another, even when we disagree about politics even now, but if trump becomes the president again, that will not be possible. kamala harris is our only path to healing and i think she presents a really beautiful path to healing for us. healing for us. >> caroline, you just said some things so profound i don't want to speed through it. one of the ways that trump has

sort of turned up the toxicity in america is to divide families along these fault lines where the things that you may hold most dear and precious, your own family or your safety, are threatened by someone you love to pieces, supporting the very person that threatens you. what do you think trump's allure -- and maybe it is just simply the power, but what do you think it is that makes smart and accomplished men like your dad choose trump over the people and issues they love? like your dad -- you know, the first thing you said is trump is someone with 34 felonies. your father is known the world over as a prosecutor and law and order guy for better or for worse. he is all in with someone who is diametrically opposed to what the brand used to be. >> yeah. yeah.

you know, it's a hard phenomenon to understand. it definitely is. i view trump as a disease and i think it's really important to remember that with every disease prevention is a much more effective strategy than treatment and i really fear that if we elect trump again that, you know -- i thought we had cured ourselves of it the first time, but it doesn't seem like we have. and i think if he becomes the president again, we may have a terminal illness in our country and that really, really scares me. >> i want to do two things. i want to read from your piece, i want to ask you to stick around and i want to bring david and the rev in on this. we will all meet back on the other side of a very short break. stay with us. other side of a very short break. stay with us

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we're back with caroline giuliani, david jolly and the rev. caroline, let me read from your beautiful piece, you write, there are unmistakable reminders of trump's destructive trail all around us and it has broken my heart to watch my dad become one of them. not to disregard individual accountability but it would be naive for us to ignore the fact that many of those closest to trump have didi ended into catastrophic downward spirals. if we let trump back into the driver's seat this fall our country will be no exception. what do you think leads people

to think it will be different, right? by the time your dad was part of this jim comey had been fired and left out, andrew mccabe -- i mean, people who had served in the justice department, might have been people that shared some of your dad's skill set, had been discarded. what do you think people think when it comes to trump they will be treated differently? >> i don't know they do think that. i think the important thing to -- i don't know if they think about that at all. i think the important thing to remember is that trump is the only one who has evaded accountability for his actions and the only way to hold him accountable is to make sure he doesn't become the president again because think the supreme court immunity ruling. if he becomes the president he will never face consequences for these actions and, in fact, he will have more leeway to break laws than an average citizen, which is absolutely crazy to me. if you look at a man like that,

a man who literally is exactly who you would cast as a dictator in a movie and you think about him with unchecked power and you are okay with that is correct i think you really need to reconsider your line of thought. >> what is your -- if you are comfortable answering this question, if you are not we can move on, but what is your current relationship with your dad? how often do you talk to him? how is he doing? >> yeah, i love my dad very much and that is something that made this hard. i spoke out for biden four years ago and it was a different landscape then for me personally. so, you know, this was much more painful and i love my dad. we dad. we talk openly about our feelings about things and it's a challenge. but, again, so many other families have this same challenge.

it is really -- you said it was unique. it isn't unique. it is a little bit larger than life. and public. but it is not unique, you know. and i really want us to be able to disagree about politics, i think that is so important for our democracy, but i don't believe that we have a path to doing that under trump. i think kamala harris is the only person that can restore our ability to disagree peacefully. >> caroline, what do you think -- how do you separate the things your dad did in service to donald trump and the lives that were shattered like shay moss and ruby freeman? >> yeah, watching ruby freeman and shay moss share their stories was gut-wrenching and difficult and i feel so bad for everything they've gone through. i can't imagine that pain. and that is why i'm so excited to support kamala harris who has spent her life fighting for citizens, not against them.

like, she would never do anything like this. it is so clear that trump didn't care about citizens. he willing to step on anyone's backs to keep power and that is not someone who deserves the highest office in our land. >> rev, this is central to the first part of the hour and the conversations that we had about this moment is so extraordinary that caroline is speaking out, not just about not supporting trump, but about her enthusiastic support for vice president harris. because of what it is done not just to her family, but to, as she said, it is not unique, it is almost universal, the division that trump sews inside of families. >> i think i was a big critic of rudy giuliani, but i found no joy in the fall where he is now. who could want to see a guy that, whether you agree were-w him or not, end up in this situation. and for caroline, who doesn't -- unlike liz cheney, the reason i

give her credit, she stepped out there and showed a lot of courage and her father said and i'm voting for kamala. she's going against her father and doing public statements and saying i am not only disagreeing with my father in terms of trump, i'm going to enthusiastically support kamala harris. she should be given a lot of credit for that. i give her a lot ever credit for that. i'm looking at her talk and hope i never put my daughters in that position. >> it is all almost too painful to process in the context of the campaign. but it is imperative that we do that, david jolly. it is imperative that we open up this part of our minds and our hearts to the carnage that is actually come about. because of donald trump. >> it is, look, i think there is a cultural conversation to have and we've been having it for eight years but there is something unique and criminal about donald trump. and i guess as caroline is still with us, i don't know if this is

a question or a comment she might want to respond to, i think we see a lot of people fall out of their political loyalty to donald trump. when your in the fox hole, it is almost blind loyalty, you stick together. lindsey graham, we didn't think he would stick with donald trump but he does it because they're on the same team. but donald trump invited criminality into the pike. i agree with rev's remarks and i think most people share the heartbreak of the fall of america's mayor. and the one thing that i'm always intrigued about is, did rudy giuliani go as far as he did because he exposed himself to risk as an ally of donald trump. he know what he did in ukraine trying to topple the u.s. ambassador or fact that he tried to instigate the investigation into the bidens and we know what he did with the 2020 election. at some point every kid understands once you're in trouble and you say i'm sorry and i did it and step back or go

further down that road and try to fix it and it seems people close to trump, to aiding and abetting trump, got so far down the road and exposed themselves criminally in some cases that then there was no going back. is that too far of a read, perhaps, if caroline is still with us or is it a little bit of both? >> go ahead, caroline? >> you know, as i said, i think everybody needs to be accountable for their own actions and i'm not here to litigate anything. i'm here to say that i want kamala harris to be our next president because i believe that she will be a role model to my future children. and when i look at kamala harris talk and when i look at trump talk, even if you just take the politics out of it and i ask myself, who do i want my children to learn from, who do i want representing me, there is no question, kamala harris is the only choice. >> if you were asked to campaign for kamala harris, you have been

asked to campaign for kamala harris, caroline? >> the campaign reached out to thank me. >> if you were asked to campaign for her and to make this case publicly, is that something that you would do with the name that means something to a lot of republicans? >> yeah, i think i'm already doing it. >> i think so too. >> more of it, yes. we have so little time and this is so important and as i said, this is not just about the next four years, this is about the rest of our lives. so yes, absolutely. >> let me give you the last word on the piece that you write about to beautifully and i agree with you, there is a universality of plan families that are separated among generational fault lines. a lot of it has at its root disinformation and lies. what do you think heals the addiction to lies in the rapid

dissemination from trump's allies in social media? how do you think -- because i think a lot of people hope that the healing will start with the election of president joe biden and i think in a lot of ways the patient is just as sick to use your analogy. >> yeah, i mean, i think it does start with listening to one another. and that is something that i've continued to try to do. and i think that kamala harris has shown, look at all of the republicans who have come behind her. she has shown that she can be nonpartisan and so the first step i do think is putting her in the office and making sure that trump never gets back there. but i think it is really important that we all listen to each other and view each other as humans. >> caroline, your voice is an important one. david jolly and the rev, thank you so much for being here with

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it is up to us to remember what kamala's mother told her. don't just sit around and complain. do something. so if they lie about her, and they will, we've got to do something. if we see a bad poll and we will, we have to put down that phone and do something. if we start feeling tired, if we start feeling that dread creeping back in. we have to pick ourselves up and

throw water on our face and do what? >> do something. >> hi, again, everyone, it is 5:00 in new york. former president barack obama will indeed do something. as he takes hi star power to the campaign trail. next week campaigning for vice president kamala harris in pittsburgh. the event next thursday will be his first foray into the election of a battleground state. according to a campaign official, it will launch a larger effort on his part as he will ramp up his campaigning for harris in the final stretch of the election season. obama's effort marking a full circle moment. kamala harris was an early supporter of his 2008 campaign. she knocked doors for him. so far the former president's work on behalf of harris has raised $76 million. that is from fundraising content signed by him and events featuring him. so having the democratic heavy

hitter out on the campaign trail will bring the excitement and energy to a whole new level. it is not only harris who is receiving support from president obama. he's also endorsing democrats and important down ballot races. today he released a new ad for elissa slotkin running for senate in a crucial swing state. >> michigan, this is barack obama. i want to talk with you about the elissa slotkin i know. she's a true public servant who has dedicated her career to serving the american people. no matter who is in the white house. i saw that leadership and character up close. in the situation room, she delivered national security briefings on some of the toughest issues we're dealing with. that is why i sent elissa to negotiate on my behalf because she understand when to compromise and stand firm and i nominated her to be a assistant

secretary of defense. she's the kind of leader that we need. tough, independent, and effective. she'll get the job done. and she will make you proud. >> that is just 32 days left until election day for the presidential race will determine the policies of the next four years. but also answer a fundamental question. a question about what we become and that we remain a democracy or not. turning to something very, very different. these efforts by the former president could prove highly consequential in answering that question. we could only assume he'll deliver some of the same messages of hope and enthusiasm with a little side of humor that we saw in his convention address. >> here is a 78-year-old billionaire who has not stopped whining about his problems since he rode down his golden

escalator nine years ago. it has been a constant stream of gripes and grievances that has actually been getting worse now that he's afraid of losing to kamala. there is the childish nicknames. the crazy conspiracy theories. this weird obsession with crowd sizes. it just goes on and on and on. >> we know exactly what did he there. no one does it better. this is where we start the hour. washington bureau chief for the grillo, april ryan is back with me at the table democratic strategist and professor at columbia university, political analyst basil smikle is back, also joining us the host of the

on brand podcast donnie deutsche is here. and i talked to a couple of folks in and around the campaign today where everything is possible. and in either direction. it is possible to have the energy of sort of her surprise announcement, the kids call the switch, when president biden stepped aside and to have the coordinated messaging from president obama and michelle obama and vice president harris and to have the stakes of november's election by liz cheney, that this is not choosing between democratic polies and republican polies, this is choosing whether or not we remain a democracy. but you have to run the table. you have to do all of these things and president and michelle obama are so central to all of that. i think it was -- i think there is excitement and people are getting ready to cover them but there is also relief that we have them on the trail next week. >> and the republicans don't. the republicans do not have that

kind of -- it is a party of one. it is donald trump. who is it? is it lindsey graham or mitch mcconnell or matt gaetz? they don't have it. it is not there. so we have -- the democrats have on our -- i'm a pro-democracy guy. they have probably the greatest politician of our lifetime, one of the greatest of all time and someone who bridges a lot of bridges. young to old, people of color and white people. it is -- he cuts across and he does it with such charm, honesty, integrity, like-ability. you just lean in and i can't wait to see him with her. we saw him at the convention. we didn't see them together. and i think the energy of the two of them together is going to be magical. we need them now. we need michelle. it is down to the stretch. and you talk to trump people, and they're nervous and you talk to harris people and they're nervous.

it is anybody's game. and something like him could really be an x factor. >> everyone is nervous because i think it is really close. it is a margin of error election. and i think the idea -- what president obama and michelle brohm, i have to say privately, we've been quoting do something and nervously waiting for them to do their thing, because he's the most talented politician in the country right now. and i'm just trying to mentally -- that is full stop. i think anyone can assert that. he also has a track record on the campaign trail. i his final speech i think was sunday night before the midterms in philly, with josh shapiro, was a campaign speech for the ages. he's someone who keeps getting better and better and is as good or some ways better on behalf of other candidates than he was for himself. talk about the power of the obamas. >> well, you know, with barack obama for what you just said, he has this ability to re-set the

national conversation. >> correct. >> and i've seen him do that time and time again. even back to his '07, '08 race. when he's attacked, okay i'll take that and then let's talk about this now. he has an incredible ability to do that. and i just for a second will talk about michelle brohm. because in the clip, that part of the convention, she made a point, which was somewhat appreciatent to what we were saying there was a moment where some republican talking points start to see in and i see on my feed anti-kamala tweets about african americans, which is concerning, i don't know if elon musk has the finger on the button, ienl seeing that a lot more. if i'm seeing it, that means there is a lot seeping in. so at this moment that michelle obama was talking about, ignore it. her point was if you don't get that phone call, if you the came may not knock on your door,

understand that she's doing something in the short period of time that most people have two years to do and she's building a campaign and an operation with money and volunteers that is going to get out that vote. and so it is a bit of his oratory ability, but it is also a reassurance to voters that the standard bearer, if you're a democrat, the standard bearer is out there with you. that the most gifted oratories of our day, is trying to unite the country in the way that he did many years ago when he first ran. and even if there is a moment where voters with respect to trump may have an amnesia, to your point, donnie, they don't have the ability to remind people of the past in the way that barack obama and michelle obama do. >> and president obama is the trump origin story. no one triggers trump the way that president obama does.

and trump rises to the particular crevices of the far right on birtherism. so, he's not -- president obama is not a foil, it is not a simple surrogate relationship, i mean, obama triggers trump in a way that is almost unknowable. >> there is something that happens when barack obama comes on. everything seems okay. there really -- with trump we know there is chaos and kamala is a unknown no matter how you slice it. and he comes on and there is a relief factor. there is a -- you just trust this guy and you think everything is going to be okay. and i know there is nobody in the country that has the ability to do that. and as i said earlier, cutting across a lot of segments. and i really think that that he's going to be profound in this election. i think it is that close that i think him and the energy, the kick start, that he could give to the campaign with all that he brings to it, i think could be

magical. i'm really looking forward to this. >> and april ryan, he doesn't lull you into everything being okay. he and michelle obama tell you what to do if you want things to be okay and if you view being okay as continuing the american experiment. >> yeah, nicolle, the obamas particularly former barack obama, as you have been saying, his smile is electric and his confidence assurance and people gravitate to them because of their realness, their authenticity. barack obama and michelle obama have been every person. they've been poor, and they've struggled through middle class to upper class now. they are every person. people understand them. and for barack obama to get in toward the last 32 days, is the best thing that he could do. because it is like reading a book or hearing a speaker or speaker. you remember the first one and the last one and barack obama just offers a punch that no one else has given.

he finds those little areas, those little spaces that need to be filled and he fills them. so barack obama is one of the greatest oratories of our time, but i think michelle obama may have taken that at the dnc. but he's one of the greatest of our time. he's a beloved united states president, be it democrat or republican. his numbers are in the top ten according to historians and i believe this will help her, particularly in states like michigan with the black populations like dearborn. it will help in philadelphia and in places or pennsylvania more so in those suburbs of philadelphia. i believe barack obama and whatever charisma he has will be dynamic for her and will help -- i believe it is still tight but i think it will help her in a lot of ways. >> we've been talking off camera and i just want to -- i made this, that i want to share my understanding, that the term undecided voters gets thrown

around. and it is not one pile. it is not one bucket of people sitting at their table with their spouses or their kids saying i'm choosing between kamala and donald. a handful of those people. maybe four. a lot of it is democrats who are undecided about whether or not kamala harris, maybe they don't know her, maybe they're -- a variety of reasons and they are republicans who voted for trump once, sometimes twice, but didn't like what they saw on january 6, maybe they were drawn to mike pence, so the undecided voters come from three buckets. they are people choosing between the two but the campaigns are focused on people who are undecided or disaffected democrats and republicans. i want to show you how president obama spoke to them. >> we live in a time of such confusion and rancor. with a culture that puts a

premium on things that don't last. money, fame, status, likes. we chase the approval of strangers on our phones. we build all manner of walls and fences around ourselves and then we wonder why we feel so alone. we don't trust each other as much because we don't take the time to know each other. and in that space between us, politicians and algorithms teach us to caricature each other and troll each other. and fear each other. >> in the speech that was again for the ages, that was one of my favorite sections and i wonder what you make of that message in these final weeks of the campaign, april? >> yeah, nicolle, for him to be the man who has used social media to his advantage, he's

really the first president who went straight to the american public using social media, and now he's talking about the isolation of it. which is real. now he wants us engage and understand. and when it comes to kamala harris, you know, people say they don't know her, but one of the reasons, there are several reasons and i'm going to throw them at you. one because she's black and she's a woman. she's the first black woman for the president said it is a double-whammy and people dismiss her as being a black woman and let's put that on the table and it is real and authentic. two, because she's the vice president behind a legend in politics, joe biden, who happens to be older and she could never upstage him. and i go back to what hillary clinton said, imagine what the american public would have thought about her confronting donald trump, no matter what. kamala harris is a woman in a man's world in the male -- white

male dominated game of politics. so people have to know who she is and shea has to give that information over and over. whereas people have read the book cover to cover on donald trump and shut the book and said i'm not sure. so they're trying to find out if they could stake their claim on kamala harris and this is the piece that barack obama has to really put forward as well as michelle obama and the rest of the surrogates. explain who she is. explain what she stands for. she has to show who she is and be as authentic as she could be. so people could see, i like you. i would have you have in my home for dinner and that is basically what it is about. connection and engagement. >> and the good piece of that equation, agree with the analysis completely, is that all of the data suggests that the more -- there is no issue on that front. that the mission from the

campaign is, it is 32 days. she can't about everywhere all at once. but everywhere she goes and everywhere they see her and put money behind paid messaging, and it works. >> and always also. these are two likeable candidates. she's doing 60 minutes next week. and i think the campaign should also be highlighting is that trump is running. i mean, he's not doing the 60 minutes. he wouldn't do the debate. and there is one flavor that out there people seem to like. the more it is out there the more it trips over itself. and she's just out there and i think april's point about, i kind of like her and invite her to my home and have a beer with, and she does come across as likeable. ant this is not brain surgery and i'm going back to where we started, the more barack obama is out there, the better. >> i think there are some democrats that say she should be doing more media. i'm a big fan of local m

the average person is going to turn on their tv and watch local and what is happening in my neighborhood and as long as she could sort of inject herself into those spaces, in small -- play small ball a little bit, podcasts, giving social media which her team is excellent at doing. i know there is some criticism about her in that regard. but i'm not so concerned about that. i want her to be local. because we spoke about something i have to touch on. one of the things that barack obama and michelle obama do so well is remind the country of how donald trump others us. >> all of us. >> all of us. and he has this ability, they both have this ability to bring people together and make you feel included, which is to point on social media, he was making earlier. it is about the exclusivity that donald trump seems to talk about and he embodied that the most within our body structure.

>> i have a million thoughts on the local -- this is national media person, i agree with you. i think local media and you see them, they are the people that you trust most. you sit down with any national media figure and there is a buy as before you said one word. i mean, so, i couldn't agree more with local media. april ryan, thank you for starting us off. lost among the headlines in this busy news week. another example of the disgraced ex president's profound unknitness to be the commander-in-chief again. his outrageous comments about u.s. troops in afghanistan and later in the hour our deep friend and colleague jacob soberoff wrote the book on the heartless inhumane policy of separating children, some as young as infants from the parents at the southern border. that book has been turned into a film. jacob and aacademy award

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among the harris campaign's most potent closing arguments with one month left to go is the degree to which donald trump is categorically unfit to serve as the commander-in-chief ever again. the new ad playing out across battleground states as we speak quotes some of his old appointees. watch. >> in 2016, donald trump said he would choose only the best people to work in his white house. now those people have a warning

for america. trump is not fit to be president again. here is his vice president. >> anyone who puts themselves over the constitution should never be president of the united states. >> i cannot in good conscience endorse donald trump this year. >> his defense secretary. >> do you think trump could be trusted with the nation's secrets ever again. >> no. it is just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk and our nation's security at risk. >> his national security adviser. >> donald trump will cause a lot of damage. the ome thing that he cares about is donald trump. >> and the nation's former highest ranking military office. >> we don't take an oath to a king or a queen or a tyrant or a dictator. we don't take an oath to a wannabe dictator. >> donald trump is too big of a risk for america. >> said aside what other people have said, think about what trump has said. he'll deny to his last breath that he ever called our nation's

fallen heroes losers and suckers in private. but what he said in public much better. this is from this week. >> do you believe that you should have been tougher on iran after they have launched ballistic missiles in 2020 on u.s. forces in iraq leaving more than 100 u.s. soldiers injured. >> injured, what does that mean. you mean because they had a headache, because the bombs never hit the fort. so just so you understand, there was nobody ever tougher in iraq. >> of course, when you play a trump clip, it is fraught with peril for us. he meant iran. he misspoke there. but the confusion is nothing alongside the utter disregard for the sacrifice and injuries endured by the men and women serving country. joining our coverage, retired u.s. marine corp lieutenant

colonel and founder of democratic majority action pack amy mcgrath joins us. amy, your reaction to those comments as part of a long really excruciating body of comments that show he has complete indifference to the sacrifices and contributions of the men and women who serve. >> yeah, he denies disrespecting veterans but you see it right there. he's so disconnected and the background of this was, you know, recently, he and j.d. vance have been pushing out this narrative that, you know, the world was safer under his watch. almost like, there is no u.s. service men or women that were injured or hurt under his watch. and when he was confronted with the truth, he basically dismissed it. dismissed their injuries, traumatic brain injuries are very real.

we learned so much in last 20, 30 years about how just terrible these injuries could be. life-threatening injuries, life altering injuries. and to dismiss them as headaches, i just think shows you the complete disregard, the disrespect for veterans. it is almost like he doesn't even know it. he disrespects veterans so much, that he doesn't even know he's doing it. and, so, again, as you said, part of a pattern that we see with donald trump. >> amy, i keep thinking about how close the race is. i wish i could wake up one day and read the news and see that it had opened up that the pro-democracy coalition had swamped donald trump. but it hasn't happened. and i wonder, you know, you know some of the men who saw most of what trump did and said and really is to the military and as

commander in chief, people are in tank briefings with him when he was both ignorant and indifferent to how his decisions would impact the men and women of the military. i wonder what would you say if you were sort of alone in a confront room with general kelly or mark milley? >> well, i would make the distinction first of all those who served the uniform and did not take political appointmentships afterwards or work in a political capacity. so general milley is different than general kelly in that matter. if i were to talk to them, i would say show the american people or tell us what you saw. i think it is really important. we're talking about the most important position in the land. the most important position arguably, i think in the world as president of the united states. so it is really important that they come forward. but i will say this, nicolle, a lot of folks already have come forward. you played a clip of some of

them already. and the key here is that their message, that message of unfitness, has to get out to voter and that is what my organization is working on doing. because a lot the voters aren't watching msnbc and not reading general mcchrystal's op-ed in "the new york times" and they have to been confronted with the reality that the people that worked for him that are very respected believe that he is unfit to become commander-in-chief again. >> and just based on where the campaign is putting money, that ad is running. you have to imagine that the message, to amy's point, when they reach voters are having an impact. this is what general mcchrystal wrote, why kamala harris has won me over. i thought deeply about my choice and considered what i've seen and heard and what i owe my three granddaughters. i've concluded that it isn't political tribalism, it is the

best president my vote might help select so i have cast my vote for character and that vote is for vice president kamala harris. harris has the strength and the temperament and the values to serve as commander-in-chief and she sits down with world leaders like president of ukraine representing the united states on the global stage, i have no doubt that she's working in our national interest, not her own. your thoughts about this is a closing message. >> i h a dozen times on this show, said give me the four generals, and kelly and millie and black and white footage talking mt. rushmore. and i would put on your old boss, w., this is the time, our children hopefully are not going to be reading in textbooks 20, 30, 40, 50 years about how democracy went this way. this is the time. so whether it is the generals, whether it is ex-presidents and

i think you're exports would move the needle. he's revered post -- the world looks at him in a very -- so it is time. whoever has to speak. this is time. there is not going to be a second chance. >> a lot of people ask me about him. on and off television so i'll just say, i would like nothing more than for him to do that. for someone who publicly and privately was always worried about what he called the isms, racism and isolationism and what donald trump has done and promises to do, crosses every line that has ever existed and in a bigger level democracy. if you care about living in a democracy and he has kids and grandkids and i don't intend to be influential with him as an aide or an ex aide and miss bush, she was the first voice that spoke to the country after 9/11.

i think you read jack smith's filing this week and you sort of there but for the grace of the actions of a few men and women, that was, in the word's of donald trump's own fbi diktor, act of terrorism. to think those that have influence that were so far quiet, it would haunt me for the rest of my days. >> i'll go to the ground here. in colorado, a county clerk, tina peters, was sentenced to nine years for tampering with election voting machines. the prosecutor said that she made a joke of this community. and i think that is -- to me that resonated because is that not what donald trump is good at doing. she's taking people, manipulating them and you become a laughing stock. you become irrelevant and then you go away. but then there is damage done frp she's going to spend nine years of her life in prison, for

what. to complete this lie and conspiracy. so i think part of the closing argument that kamala harris is making, but barack obama and michelle obama will join her in making is saying, you spent your entire life, your children, raise children and grandchildren in these neighborhoods and you let donald trump come in to make you a laughing stock. it is a pride thing at work here. and i think -- and there is nobody else that could make that -- send that message better. >> i also think that somewhat of trump has robbed a lot of people of is the art of the possible. mitt romney is silent on the question of kamala harris. and he'll tell someone interviewing him, that he's chilled and scared. i don't believe it. because he may be. but if you're scared for your family and your loved ones, michelle said, you do something. you fight for the one person who would protect us and keep us a democracy and i think what liz cheney and dick cheney do, is

they make it uncomfortable for people to do nothing. but they haven't done the one thing, they haven't endorsed kamala harris who is the only person running on maintaining america as a democracy. >> and i'll just say this, because i have to say it. you know, just being black is a political statement. being black man and living past any 60s is a political statement. every single day we wake up and we have to confront everything that we talk about and have talked about over and over again. a lot of folks in this country don't know what that feels like and what that is. so, my point there is that, do something takes on a certain kind of meaning and res onnence to someone like me. but if you don't know what that feels like in this country, ask me. ask someone who has gone through it and i think one of things that makes the obamas so great, is because he was able to do that. he was able to say, we may disagree on a lot of issues and

live many different spaces and you may feel isolated because of social media but i will tell you there is a lot of commonality between us. and that to me is the kamala closing statement. but it is also something that i think, and i was -- that is the message that needs to be hyper local and sent to a lot of voters that are -- that look like me but are younger than me who still have concerns about whether or not they should go out and vote for her. if that message gets down, and if that gets down to the root, then, i mean, this race shouldn't be as close as it is. >> i feel like we need a whole other hour to dig deeper. while we have amy, how does that apply to young men and women of the military? do you -- is that where this message should be, to quote basil, hyper local and hyper specific and communicated from the most credible messengers that we have in our country. >> yeah, absolutely. and that is why we need to make

sure that we talk about these high ranking former military officers who have come out and over 750 of them have come out and endorsed kamala harris. and you know what, what is interesting to me is it not just about respect from -- the lack of respect from donald trump. but you know what, folks in the military really care about, a lot, about is we want a president who is not chaotic. we want a president who is not going to do foreign policy by tweet. because we're on the tip of the sphere and we want someone who is competent and will listen to her advisers and do the right thing and that is kamala harris and that is the message that is going to resonate to those in the military and their families. >> that is a good 30 second ad right there. amy, if you're available, we'll bring a camera crew over. >> we have our work cut out for us. i need you back here on monday.

thank you so much for spending time with us today. when we come back, we'll turn to our colleague jacob soberoff, an academy award documentary maker errol morris about one of the most cruel policies of the trump era. child separation. he'll join us at the table next. n he'll join us at the table next. i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. [sniff] still fresh. still fresh! ♪♪ with downy unstopables, you just toss, wash, wow. for all-day freshness. i still love to surf, snowboard, yoand, of course, skate.. so, i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol's extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust. lawmakers are trying to shut down planned parenthood. the health care of more than 2 million people is at stake. our right to basic reproductive health care is being stolen from us.

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magic johnson has just taken

the stage in flint, michigan, in a rally for kamala harris. let's listen in. >> when i turned pro, i thought that was going to be the greatest moment in my father's life. but it wasn't. the greatest moment is his life came when he finally owned his own home. what does kamala harris want to do as president, put millions of americans in their own home, give them $25,000 to start them off to be homeowners. that is very important. then, she wants to also have more small business owners. and she's going to help them out by giving them $50,000 for

start-ups, new small business owners. tax deductions. she's smart. she's strong. she's passed. no one is going to outwork her. she's committed to you, the people of the united states, the people of michigan. she's committed to you. she's going to be a president for everybody. and the one thing that she's going to do is find us and unite us and bring us together. that other party is trying to tear us down. [ booing ] >> and i got to say this because i'm back home, first of all, let

me congratulate your tigers. i grew up a tiger fan. so i'm hoping that your tigers meet my dodgers for the world series, okay. but we have 32 days, that sound familiar? someone wore a number 32. you know who that is. until november 5th. now, we can't take anything for granted. you've been working hard but we need to work harder. you got to call people and we got to knock on doors after and before church, not during church, but after and before church. we got to rally people. talk to them. now, there is a lot of black men in here. and i don't mean to you know not

talk to other people. but this is important. our black men, we got to get them out to vote. that is number one. kamala's opponent promised a lot of things last time to the black community. that he did not deliver on. and we got to make sure we help black men understand that. so that is why i'm here. to make sure i help black men understand, first get out and vote, and then vote for the next president of the united states, kamala harris. >> magic johnson, famous the world over, also happens to be a michigan native delivering an extremely important and targeted political message on behalf of his friend kamala harris and

he's known for about 22 years. we're going to turn to our other big story this hour. earlier this week, at the vice presidential debate, j.d. vance opened the door to returning to one of our darkest periods. not just the trump press presidency and that was donald trump policy of fosiblely separated children from parents trying to immigrate to the country. thousands of children were taken from parents under this policy. some as young as four months old. and kept in wire cages. doctors described the practice as dehumanizing and a form of child abuse. there were widespread reports of sexual abuse. children were subjected to medical treatment when dr. equated with the cruelty of medical treatment under the soviet union. a new film by jacob soberoff and the legendary errol morris examines the origin of family

separation and the danger if it were to return. >> the government thought that showing the world separations through the eyes people like me, they would scare the -- out of people that were attempting to come from coming. >> i've never seen anything like that. there were about 1500 kids in there. >> you're a parent. don't you have any empathy for what they go through. >> this is right from the get-go. someone must have been planning this. it is not over. five years later we're still trying to reunite over a thousand children. >> it could happen again. >> jacob and errol join us now. i remember sitting here, i remember what i was wearing, i remember the day, i remember who was around the table when your reporting was leaving all of our newscasts and when the first audio tapes, i think propublica

had the first infant and the sounds of wailing and it was audio only, and i think hout is this not a stop everything moment. how are there people, why aren't people resigning. all of people with fingers on this policy have never been held accountable. >> the way you put it, a stop everything moment, i think we forget that it was at that time. the pope spoke out. republicans and democrats were in the streets not just in this country, but people of all political persuasions around the world cried out about this policy. and the reason i wrote the book and i think that errol wanted to make the film, i'll let him speak for himself, to ask the question, how could this have happened and potentially be on the verge of happening again and how do we allow it to happen and that explores only in the way that errol can. >> so, how did this happen?

>> i read a book. that is how it often happens. a book by jacob soberoff. i liked the book. it was an important issue. particularly for a jew in america, we're all immigrants. we all came from somewhere else. and not just jews, maybe all of us came from somewhere else. and there is something unamerican and something truly appalling about immigrants being vilified, demonized. it's disgusting. i don't know how else to put it. >> what does this say, that it is a essential hallmark of donald trump's closing message, to target legal immigrants from haiti? >> i think, i'm so glad that you pointed out that. because it is a pattern of this

campaign. i covered the republican convention where the most popular sign at least amongst the attendees was one that called for the mass deportation of more people than any other administration in the history of the united states. that is by definition is family separation because you have mixed status families. j.d. vance and some of our own colleagues won't address whether or not they will bring back the family separation policy. nor will donald trump. he hasn't answered the question himself. and i think that what we're looking at -- we're looking down the barrel of the exact same policy of potentially happening again in this moment and they're employing the same rhetoric. and we wouldn't be here and part of the reason that we want to tell this story, it if it wasn't for the bipartisan nature and the biden administration just put forward one of the most conservative immigration bills but no one has done what the trump administration has done and deployed it in the campaign in the way they're continuing to

do. >> we hear arguments that this is been done before, this is no different from what was done in the obama administration, bush administration, the clinton administration. did they have immigration policies that were draconian, that were filled with, i would say, cruel policies, but nothing on this level. this represents something different and something new and it is important to remember and acknowledge that fact. when you're separating a two-month-old nursing infant from his mother, that is a big, big difference. >> what is it that makes humans go along with it? because donald trump made the policy but there were humans that carried it out. >> humans are capable of doing anything as we well know. you don't have to read much history to but aware of that

fact. and it is distressing what we're capable of. >> you hear from people in the film that i had never talked to on camera before, people like captain jonathan white who warned -- you hear from people who participated in it like scott lloyd who land the office of refugee resettlement and carried out the separations or was responsible in part from them and you hear from the heres, errol puts them in front of the -- like he did with robert mcnamara or donald rumsfeld, when you say how you could participate and what was it like to experience it in the way that errol was able to do it, even i didn't understand sort of the magnitude of what these folks went through both the people who perpetrated it and the ones that tried to stop it. >> what does it say to you that we're on the precipice of another election and a candidate still for these things? >> it frightens me.

this is a stomach churning election. at least for me and i think for a lot of other people. these are policies that to me are unacceptable and unforgivable. what bothers me even more before the story is that people have this extraordinary ability to deceive themselves. that is what is most disheartening about humanity, is that if we really want to do evil, we construe it as the good. and we convince ourselves that something that is despicable is just fine. go ahead and do it. you could hear the head of the department of homeland security, the secretary tell us that we're not doing anything unusual. we're just following the law. >> following the law. >> and why didn't they do this during the obama administration? obama deported a lots and lots

of people. why didn't they do this during the obama administration? because they discussed it and decided it was immoral. >> it gets to the character of the person we elect being the most impactful decision we make as a country and as a voter. >> you ask the question of how do we get to this moment, this is still so central in our conversation and things are so close. i think that the answer is that we have not made the departure that joe biden inspired to in his campaign promising a fair and orderly system. we are still talking about immigrants like data points like something to be scared of. a problem to solve rather than our neighbors. >> immigrants as villains. >> yeah. >> it is happening literally right now. i've had local reporters on and folks working to the serve the community of ohio, springfield, ohio, where j.d. vance happens to be their senator.

what is the hope that the film, what conversation does the film hope to inspire or deepen? >> one, make these things, i hope you could make, there is no guarantee, of course, but the hope you could make a difference. this is an important election. we're all aware of the fact. but i like to weigh in on it and yes, i hope i've done so in some small way. it's important. important for how we see ourselves and important for the country. that we never allow this to happen again. and you watch springfield, ohio, and you watch j.d. vance, it is kind of happening. and that is not so good. >> i'll give you the last word. >> it's a reporter, my interest is to make sure this is a conversation that people cannot afford to avoid. kristin welker did it in the last debate of the 2020 election when she askedk i remember you reported on that about the 545 still separated children to both

news president biden and former president trump. and today that number according to department of homeland security is as many as 1300 children without confirmed reunification. it is gone up since the last debate. and why we're not still talking about this, i don't know. but it is an honor and a privilege to be working with errol morris to tell this story and to be here with you to talk about it. >> with your help, we'll keep our eyes on it and do a better job. congratulations on the film and all of the acclaim it is receiving. much deserve and thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you so much. the new documentary "separated" premieres today in manhattan center. for tickets we'll give you a second here. scan the qr code on your screen. if you're not in new york, catch the broadcast premiere, on december 7th right here on msnbc. you don't want to miss it. another break for us. we'll be right back. us we'll be right back. ch content, and, my favorite touch, it's the only site

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