"joe, i know we will see each other again. in the meantime, please do watch over our children and do protect them from harm. joe, i thank you for being such a great, loving husband and loving father. i love you so much, and will love you forever." that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. [music playing] good morning and welcome to the saturday edition of "morning joe: weekend." it was a really busy week , so let's get right to the conversations you might have missed. david, you wrote about the debate in your piece. i think

it is a great place to start. especially given the vice presidential debate that we all watched. it is entitled, "this is why maga loves j.d. vance." and you wrote in part quote, we've seen all this before. in 2016 and 2020, mike pence was the gentleman debater. he was less polished and less effective than vance, but he had a similar, softening effect on the ticket. in 2016, his earnest faith and apparent kindness might have reassured voters that trump couldn't be that bad, not if he had chosen pence. we know exactly how that turned out. in choosing advanced and discarding pence, trump traded actual decency for a man who could simulate decency, and that's exactly what advanced did on tuesday night. but he couldn't keep it together for the entire evening. at the very end, the mask

slipped. on tuesday night, walters learned exactly why maga loves vance so much. he's a talented communicator. he has a compelling life story. he can make the ideological and policy case for republican populism better than any other politician in america, and she's no mike pence. he would wreck the republic for donald trump. tell us more, if you can, david, in your piece about the dangers of a trump/vance presidency. yeah, a lot of people were really surprised by the debate that it was civil, kind, they treated each other well, it felt like a breath of fresh air for a minute, and then you got down to the very end. at the very end, vance is challenged about the election, and then we know where he draws the line, where he won't compromise. he is not going to

say that the election was fair in 2020. he cast more excursions on the 2020 outcome. when he did that, he was broadcasting to maga america, don't be fooled by all of this civility, don't be fooled by all of this decency, when it comes down to it, if push comes to shove, we need to overturn, or try to overturn an american election again, i will be there with you this time, not like that guy, mike pence. at the very end of the whole facade came off. at the very end, everything was plain. all of that civility and decency would slide away in an instant, if donald trump demanded it. >> all of that civility, found vance on the attack again, pretty nasty attacks against walz during a campaign stop in the midwest. some observers suggested that vance won the first 88 minutes of the debate because of how civil and polished he was, but lusted those last two with that huge january 6 moments, the moment the harris team clipped

for an ad, and was underscored yesterday because of that filing. the timing with suddenly january 6 back in the headlights. there weren't a lot of new revelations, per se, but a lot of really granular, hard- hitting detail. give us some of your takeaways as you read through jackson's filing. >> what the supreme court did, they raised the bar for prosecuting a former president. they raised the standard, if you will, by creating these three different categories of official acts and unofficial export which to be prosecuted. what jack smith did in response, go through with a fine tooth comb and identify point, my point, the different ways in which you cannot make out a plausible argument that donald trump was acting officially. one of the things that i thought was brilliant about what they did in their brief, was they talk about a lot of what donald trump knew, and when he knew it. establishing that piece of intent is a critical element to

show, this was not something being done in the official capacity of you is the president of the united states of america. this was something you were doing as a private candidate who you had lost an election. >> wow. so, rev., trump and vance say, they want to focus on the future, let's take a look into the window of the future. in an interview with "news nation" last night, former president donald trump said, if he wins in november, he would revoke the temporary protective status granted to haitian migrants, legal migrants , in springfield, ohio. >> in springfield, what is happening there is horrible. you have a beautiful community, 52,000 people, and about 30,000 people were put into that community rapidly, and the community is so nice, and they want to be so politically correct, you have to remove the people. we cannot destroy our country. you had a beautiful, safe community. everyone is in love with

everybody. everything is nice, like a picture community. all of a sudden, in a short period of time, they have 32,000 more people in there. in my opinion, it is not legal. it is not legal for anybody to do. even on a human basis, it is not acceptable to the people that are there, certainly to the people that are in springfield. springfield is such a beautiful place. have you seen what has happened to it? it has been overrun. you can do that to peopthey have to be removed. >> so, we have seen what has happened to it, rev. al, kids have to get escorted to school by police. there are bomb threats, there are people afraid to go to work , there are haitians afraid to go to work. yes, we have seen what has happened to springfield. but deporting and kicking out legal migrants is a new low, or how would you describe this? what is your reaction? >> it is definitely something that should be extremely troubling to everyone, that you have a man saying, if i am

president again, i am going to arbitrarily just deport people. there is no complaints about them. the people of springfield have defended them. the governor, who is republican, has said, this is bogus what you are saying, and says, i am going to deport them anyway. that is a threat to any of us in this country that he can just decide to me with no process of law. i am not the lawyer here. brooklyn has given us charles coleman, one of our brilliant lawyers. i can tell you, the need to at least be some due process to deport people. he just says, 30,000 people, i am sending them away. to have that kind of person with that mentality as president is frightening to many of us that believe in some due process in having a procedure of law. >> couldn't get the numbers right, which donald trump is not getting in this place. springfield is a population of about 60,000. i have not seen anywhere there

are 30,000 migrants move in, the most seems to be about 15,000 is the number people are settling on. again, the numbers matter, because that is affecting the impact of what he is saying. >> it is also interesting to try and understand, if there is any logic whatsoever to apply to donald trump's ramblings. it is how this actually plays as a strategy. i think on top of the january 6th report, this is where the bush republicans start to think, okay, this is really too much. sort of if you think about what is happening today, liz cheney is actually in wisconsin with kamala harris, the two of them are campaigning together. this feels like for independence of bush republicans, this is too much, though. that could be enough in the swing states to ensure kamala wins. >> it is so interesting, jonathan lanier, because this is not the first time we have heard donald trump talking like a dictator want to be, beyond

saying, he would be a dictator for a day. he also recently set on stage, when asked about pardoning the january 6 convicts, people who were convicted of crimes they committed on january 6th, violent crimes, he said, he would pardon them all. the reporter followed up saying, who would decide if they really should be convicted, if they really committed crimes, or should be pardoned, just let them all go? he says, i would decide. i would decide. it is all him. it is all the way he wants this country to look when he gets into office. it is just so interesting to hear independent voters going, i need to know more about kamala harris, when you know this about donald trump. >> donald trump took steps during his first term in office to consolidate power in the executive branch, and since leaving office, he has been bolstered by the supreme court for immunity, also project 2025, other right wing think

tanks, republican operations are also trying to put more and more power in the oval office, so trump would have this incredible leeway, working to be elected again. first, that includes, as he is saying, deporting immigrants who are here legally. those migrants in springfield, mind you, the town manager, other residents, they needed the help. they helped revive that town. the governor of ohio has gone to bed a number of times to find trump saying how necessary they are. and yes, this is donald trump talking about january 6, appearing in front of a convict choir and saying, he would pardon, by his own decision, those involved. "morning joe: weekend" will be right back. back. good to go unscripted. good to go on a whim. with cabenuva, there's no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment

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melania recently said in an interview she did that she sort of runs things with her and donald in the marriage. " the guardian" reports in her book, entitled, quote, melania, due out next week, mrs. trump claims, she is a passionate supporter of a woman's right to control her own body, including the right to abortion. the former first lady writes, reportedly, it is imperative to guarantee that women have autonomy in deciding their preference when having children , based on their own convictions, free from any intervention or pressure from the government. why should anyone, other than the woman herself, have the power to determine what she does with her own body? a woman's fundamental right of individual liberty, to her own life, grant her the authority to terminate her pregnancy if she wishes. adding, quote, restricting a woman's right to choose,

whether to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, is the same as denying her control over her own body. i have carried this belief with me throughout my entire adult life. the former first lady also reportedly defends the right to abortion later in pregnancy, pointing out, those cases are extremely rare, and typically done when severe abnormalities would result in stillbirth of the child or the mother's life is at risk. nbc news has not obtained a copy of the book and cannot independently confirm its contents or "the guardian" reporting. joanna coles, your thoughts. kind of wish she might have said something to him, maybe . >> i mean, melania has asserted control over her own body, because she has removed it from living with donald trump , and she is now back in new york, overseeing baron's education at nyu. this is a very familiar republican trope. the wives come out and say, they believe

in abortion rights, with their husbands, who have the power to actually take away women's rights, and we have seen that with extraordinary boasting by donald trump of his victory with the supreme court dismantling roe versus wade. when the men have the power to actually take a right away their rights and the women sit around saying, oh goodness, i didn't believe it. i don't think we should take this remotely serious. i am myopically interested in anything melania has to say, because i do think that she-- your compost on your podcast said, very clearly, she absolutely hates him. so, i think the longer she stays away from him, perhaps the more she will regain her sanity, but i don't think that we should be taking melania's pronouncements on policy remotely seriously. >> it is interesting that she decided to go as far as she had in the book.

at one point in the book, according to "the guardian's" reporting here, i have not seen a copy, she said, i don't talk about politics. later in the book, she has this quite forthright comment on abortion, which don't really fit with her protestations that she's not going to talk about politics, because this is clearly a very political issue. i don't know that this makes any difference in terms of the election, or the grantor scheme of things, it is worth pointing out that one of the most pro- choice groups in the united states at the moment is young men under the age of 40, who actually have turned out and all of those references we have had in kentucky, kansas, and ohio. they have turned out to defeat restrictions on abortion. i don't know if melania is talking to those young men in particularly, she may be talking to their young wives . she is in line with most of the united states where normal polling shows the population is, she's just not particularly aligned with where her husband's politics are. the

fact she may have been speaking to those young men with her naked pictures when she did the nude photo shoots in gq. we can't forget, laura bush came out and made it clear that she was actually in favor of abortion rights, when we knew her husband wasn't. >> certainly, there is that dichotomy, but so striking to hear from melania trump at all because of how invisible she has been, particularly this time around, only taking sporadic appearances with her husband on the campaign trail, making clear, what she has done for this book, that will continue. >> his son has also been completely absent for it too. in that vacuum, the family women around him, you have had people like laura looming movement about vacuums, spotting all sorts of-- >> it may be a good way to sell books. >> it is a great way to sell books. >> i am skeptical. >> a copy on my desk when i get

back, which i am extremely excited to read. >> charles coleman and david french, charles, i will start with you. is 160 page filing, your take away, what is next with it timing wise especially? >> if anything is expecting anything to happen of substance before the election, i would tell you to sort of cool your jets. that is not likely something we will see. donald trump's attorneys have begun asking for additional time to respond. in fairness, jack smith and the doj were given a significant amount of additional extensions to apply the law to the facts, as they did with their brief and they will do the same in response. so, mika, what will happen next, they will look to response to the doj's brief and ethically argue that many of them have asked that jack smith has tried to keep it out of the indictment should no longer be there, they should be kept out and chuck will make a decision.

based off of whatever is remaining from those two briefs, the case will move forward. timeline wise i think very easily in terms of anything substantively moving, we are looking at the beginning of 2025, the winter of 2025 in terms of anything that progressively moves this case forward. >> all right. david french, final thoughts. i would love to get a sense from you on how to break through independent voters max, or even to trump voters that might be a little worried about casting their ballots for him. there is the term, firehose of falsehoods. i think we have a firehose of frightening possibilities that he mentions every day, just two in the past week would be, deporting illegal migrants, as well as, a day of violence to solve the problem of crime, like a day of terrible violence, like a threat to our society, i guess, but he is going to unleash, what, a police state? i don't know. my point is, i think we should be listening to

him, because he is telling us what is going to happen. >> these independent, undecided voters are people who really don't pay attention to politics much at all. there is this interesting thing that happens when trump puts himself out in the public again, he starts to vote against that low ceiling of support. people are reminded why they were tired of him to begin with. the more dramatic he gets and the more hyperbole he uses at the end of the race, i am not sure that will end up helping him as much. i think it will remind people that they are just sick of all of this. they wanted all of this to be over. we might see once again that feeling of 47%, 46%, which is barely enough in 2016, not enough in 2020, but he can't be comfortable if he can't get about that number. i just wonder if this continues, angry , and arrangement is going to be reminding some of these independents maybe something about him that they had

forgotten. coming up, autocracy in america. and applebaum joins us with a brand-new installment of her must hear podcasts when "morning joe: weekend" comes right back. right back.

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you know, i don't really buy it in terms of, hey, in 24 hours it could be-- it is a real myth, a real misunderstanding of war to assume you can get a favorable political outcome without a favorable military outcome. that has never really happened in war. i think the right course of action is, if you want to accelerate toward progress, toward settlement is to convince putin that he is losing the war. i think that is the only way you get a favorable settlement. how do you do that you can you demonstrate our resolve to continue to support ukrainians as they defend themselves against this continued onslaught by the russians. that is how you get to maybe favorable conditions for negotiation.

let's bring in staff writer at "the atlantic," anne applebaum, cohost of the podcast entitled, "autocracy in america ." it is a five-part series about authoritarian tactics already at work in the united states, and where to look for them. "the washington post," david ignatius, is with us as well. >> autocracy talks about how, you know when we talk about free trade, we talk about free trade crossing borders, enriching the world, autocracy talks about autocracy, cryptography, crossing borders, and actually reinforcing dictators, autocrats from venezuela to belarus. talk about your theories, and what you are trying to help americans better understand. >> so, one of the arguments of autocracy in america, and by the way, it is related to what

you were just talking about with trump, putin, and zielinski , is america's relationships with the outside world and america's alliances also influence american democracy and american habits and american behavior. you can look back over time the fact that we have had democratic allies in the past has been influential in our own democracy. there are older examples of british abolitionism had a big influence on american abolitionist. during the cold war, we were showing up european democracy. when we put democracy at the center of our foreign policy, it also had an effect domestically. were there to be a shift, where the united states to be linked instead with the socratic world, with the world in ukraine ending with some kind of russian american alliance, designed to crush ukraine, or crush europe, one of the things that trump might mean when he talked about ending the war in

one day, that would have an influence on us too. the kleptocratic actresses of europe, which are already here, would expand the influence of anonymous companies and offshore bank accounts. all of that suffrage is typical of the autocratic world in which we helped to create, that would have an influence here too. >> certainly, trump using, unconsciously or not, using this as a model or his own style of governance. let's zero in more specifically on this matter of ukraine. you can see president zielinski loathing to be decide donald trump. he realizes, he has no choice of the matter. trump has a one in two chance of being the president. he has got to do whatever he can to keep the pipeline open. talk to us about how the rest of the world is watching a moment like that and how they make be preparing for a reality in which they can't count on states, because the u.s., if trump ends, it might be siding with these autocrats. >> first, let's be clear about one thing. his work could end tomorrow,

all putin has to do is leave. he started the war, still pushing the war forward. i think h.r. mcmaster's is right about convincing him that he will lose or he can't win, that is the only way we get to negotiations. it is not about pressuring zielinski zelensky, it is about persuading them to stop fighting, and that is still in our power. you are right, the rest of the world is listening to that, looking at that, beginning to make adjustments. to some degree, the rise of the are right in europe is partly inspired by trump. we just had an austrian election that went to a party founded by former ss officers. there is a sense that the use of violent rhetoric, like we now have, which is quite common in the united states, is somehow okay, that the demonization of immigrants, or minorities, that this is somehow okay. the united states is a leader, not just in its military power, but as a moral example, and

when people hear trump and ac trump, they imitate him. you can see it's in the autocratic world, and the democratic worlds alike. met, david. i want you and anne to discuss the topic of your latest column , quote, don't underestimate the risk of escalation under ukraine . and you talk about the real concerns of vladimir putin changing his nuclear document changing his nuclear policy and perhaps saber rattling, or perhaps, drawing the redline that he is not going to allow the united states to cross, what are your thoughts? >> joe, during this last week of intense debates about whether the u.s. should extend the range of attacks that the u.s. long-range missile strikes into ukraine, i talked to u.s. intelligence analysts about what their advice to president biden is, as he considers what to do. and they are pretty clear, they

think the risk of escalation, and by that, they mean horizontal escalation, probably not straight up to new rear, is significant. there are a lot of things that the russians can do. they are already waging extraordinary campaign of sabotage inside nato countries, but there are additional ways they could strike at america, america interest. they have threatened directly to begin cutting underwater communications, cables. they are already giving their most sensitive technology. given submarine technology, one of the crown jewels to china in a way that the united states did not happen, they could similarly give north korea the ability to strike the united states. all of that said, the risks of escalation are real. i think anne and i both feel, the american strategy of just hoping that ukraine can win a war, a prolonged war of

attrition has some problems. ukraine is exhausted. there have to be some ways for ukraine to increase the pressure on russia. just after these conversations was more skeptical that the best way to do that was sending these missile strikes deep into russia, with there are other ways you can use the missiles that might have strong effects. i am curious what anne things. >> anne, david writes in his "washington post," quote, ukraine is already striking deep into russia with its own form of drones and rockets. putin is revising his nuclear doctrine to treat attacks by nonnuclear states, like ukraine, backed by nuclear states like the united states as a quote, joint attack on the russian federation. how much should webe concerned with this new red line that has been drawn? >> i cannot stress this enough, putin has been doing this since the beginning of the war.

anytime he thinks that ukraine might have a chance at winning, anytime ukraine is pushing ahead , this happened in autumn 2022, before the war began, he starts once again talking about escalation. he starts talking about nuclear weapons. he starts stepping up the rhetoric. this is designed so we self to tear. it is designed to prevent us from helping ukraine to win. >> anne, are you suggesting, there is never a redline that he is going to draw, that he may actually respond to? this is an existential gamble. if we get this wrong, as with nuclear war, we can talk about it the next day, hopefully. >> look at what the ukrainians have done, they have occupied a part of russia. there is a ukrainian occupation

of russian territory, they have not responded. the ukrainians pushed the plexi feet out of its port of sevastopol, using the drones, which they invented. that was supposed to be a redline. they hit crimea, they have been hitting russian troops. they hit ammunition dumps deep inside russia, they are hitting targets all the time. our next guest is examining the culture of human thinking, and it impact on politics. here why he thinks our tribal nature can unite nations, heal rifts, and smart change. "morning joe: weekend" will be right back. right back.

in 2016, donald trump said he would choose only the best people to work in his white house. now those people have a warning for america: trump is not fit to be president again. here's his vice president: "anyone who puts himself over the constitution should never be president of the united states." "i cannot in good conscience endorse donald trump this year." his defense secretary: "do you think trump can be trusted with the nation's secrets ever again?" "no. i mean, it's just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation's security at risk." his national security advisor: "donald trump will cause a lot of damage." "the only thing he cares about is donald trump." and the nation's former highest ranking military officer: "we don't take an oath to a king or queen. or to a tyrant or a dictator. and we don't take an oath to a wannabe dictator." take it from the people who knew him best:

donald trump is too big a risk for america. i'm kamala harris and i approve this message. switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your business. take full control of your brand with your own custom store. scale faster with tools that let you manage every sale from every channel. and sell more with the best converting checkout on the planet. a lot more.

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all i can say is, i read where she is not black, that she put out, and i will say that, and then i read that she was black, and that is okay. either one is okay with me. that is up to her. >> vice president harris, your thoughts on this? >> honestly, i think it is a tragedy that we have someone who wants to be president, who has consistently, over the course of his career, attempted to use race to divide the american people. you know, i do believe that the vast majority of us know, we have so much more in common than what separates us and we don't want this kind of approach that is, really trying to divide us. >> that was donald trump and kamala harris at the presidential debate earlier this month. that exchange highlights one of the biggest differences in the two candidates' campaigns. one candidate trying to divide voters, while the other, making

an effort to unite america's dark political divisions are one of the topics discussed in the new book entitled "tribal how the cultural instincts that divide us can help bring us together." and the book's author, michael morris, joins us now. he is a professor in leadership and psychology at columbia university. it is great to have you on the show. this and this concept is fascinating, because we have seen some real negative impact of tribalism in the past few years in this country. talk about why it can be bad, but also, you argue, it can be good. what does it tap into? >> tribalism is the only human nature that we have. it has some unfortunate consequences at times, but it is the best thing that we can harness in order to motivate people in order to mobilize people. i think we have seen a

lot of divisive tribalism in the way of a populist politics in this country and other countries around the world, but i think the best here to divisive populism is inclusive populism. populism didn't always mean reactionary politics . some of our greatest presidents have been populist. there is a dark tone nowadays saying, that we have never been more divided, and perhaps, we can never get back to the way the country used to be, but in 1860, when abraham lincoln was elected, he had left than 40% of the vote. seven states immediately defeated. before the inauguration, the civil war started. four more states seceded. that is a risk. that is a real division in the country. in his inaugural, he said, the

mystic chords of memory shall yet well. the chorus of the union. he had faith that somehow memory, somehow, our collective history was going to be the key to bringing the country back together again. >> michael, let's talk about this a little further. in the present day, as your book lines out, and congrats on it, a few things about tribalism, but right now, it seems, as we played the clip from donald trump, it is being used as a political divider. why do we think the trends have gone that way? what roles do things like social media play, where it is so easy to be with your tribe, team red, team blue, versus interacting with someone? >> social media has been a power kick for divisive tribalism. it lowers the price of virtue signaling more outrage and increases the payoff of the consequences. you don't have to

go to a rally and get in someone's face and risk getting shoved. you just have to make a snarky remark in your bedroom, and it will be seen by way more people than never would have been seen before. it really has made a difference. >> michael, is it not true that you can use-- and i am looking at your book it is very fascinating to me, because you can use tribalism really when you can have tribes identify with each other with calming common interest in the civil rights movement, blacks and jews, and you see lgbt lgbtq movement, women's rights, and with people identify that my tribe was mistreated, your tribe was mistreated, it can be a unifying factor, couldn't it? >> definitely. we think about our greatest leaders in the civil rights movement, reverend martin luther king. his famous "i have a dream" speech was more than just trying to convince people through logical arguments.

what he did was, he hit people with cultural symbols that mattered to them. you talk about all men are created equal in the declaration of independence. he talked about, sweet land of liberty. he talked about the american dream. he was reaching into the average american's heart, reaching into the ideas that they already held dear, and trying to use that to leverage activism, rather than trying to lecture them, or change them about something. it was edification, not education. >> the new book is entitled "tribal how the cultural instincts that divide us can help bring us together. " it is on sale now. author and columbia university professor, michael morris. thank you very much, professor, for being on the show this morning. >> it is an honor to be here. up next, two time golden globe winner, don cheadle, will

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this case is taking all night. these men are killers. >> stealing from me, a man in my position can't have that. >> groovy, baby. >> did chicken man robbed me? >> they are going to kill me. >> they are reckless. >> get ready, this will be a night we will never forget. my goodness, that is a look at a new limited series on peacock, titled "fight night the million dollar heist." it follows the atlanta hustler, gordon "chicken man" williams, played by kevin hart, accused of robbing powerful mobsters at an after party at mohammed ali's after party against jerry

party. the show features an incredible, star-studded ensemble, including our next guest, award-winning actor, don cheadle. >> you know, don, the reverend and i are old enough to remember the ali terry corti fight, but the historical backdrop, actually is pretty incredible, because atlanta, i was born in atlanta. atlanta 1970 was on the cusp of becoming what was then called, the new south. post-segregation , new south. and that is the backdrop of this movie. talk about that. >> yeah, i think also, what we would call it is chocolate city . you know, atlanta was becoming one of the first places that black people's sort of burgeoning entrepreneurship, and kind of developing entrie into these businesses was allowing them to turn the city

into something more reflective of who they were at the time, and what their aspirations were . that is kind of what this show has running in the margins . everybody in this show, up to, and including my character, is trying to in some ways hustle and grind, and figure out how to make a name for themselves, and to find them placed their place in the society that is opening up for them. >> and don, picking up on that, it was also the return to mohammed ali in the ring. this has universal appeal. i was a teenager, then youth director in new york. i remember how we were celebrating ali's comeback in the ring, a black politician, leroy johnson in atlanta, is the one that got him the license. talk about how this event, and the plot around it was everybody that was somebody wanted to be there, and it was an opportune time for somebody

that wanted to do something a little creative to weigh in on, because this was like the event of the century, as far as people were concerned. this was ali's return to the ring in black mecca. >> that is right. i mean, you think about it now. i still go to the fight now. if you attend fights now and you look at who is there, it is who's who of luminaries, and celebrities, and ne'er-do- wells. everybody is there. like you said, it is a huge event, and this was no different. people from all over were coming to this fight, specifically black gangsters from all over, the east coast, west coast, the south, congregating to see this fight. so, chicken man, this guy that really existed, gordon, pulled together a party to throw in celebration of this fight, and some local, smalltime crooks

got the bright idea that they should rob all these high-level gangsters, and that would go very well for them and the score would be something they would get away with. [ laughter ] did not exactly go that way. >> don , you just said, the attendance were who's who, same could be said about the cast, i will let you have the ne'er-do- well might be. talk to us about what was that like, being with a superstar cast, how fun was it to put on the show? >> i love that you framed it by saying, a superstar cast, and did not take him also, kevin hart. that is exactly perfect. [ laughter ] no, it was great. this was a call that came to me . i had been trying to figure out something to do with kevin for a long time, and will packer, who produced this with kevin. this was something he said, this is the one, man. this is the one. once we sort of got into it, i was the last person. by the time i came on, taraji

was already in, sam jackson was already in, sam kevin was obviously in. we knew it was ours to mess up. we had a great story that our writers put together. and we just really thought we were going to have an opportunity to do something really big, really prestige, really, you know premium, and tell a story that very few people have known about. >> and effect that will packer could put together this kind of cash and tell this kind of story that very few people knew about, talk about how, you know in the 70s, when the exportation field started, i had never seen superstars of this level come together. >> i think it is a testament to her will, and the kinds of productions he has put together, and the kind of support that he puts around the people that he brings.

we had great keys in every department, as you can see, customs, hair and makeup, the music, amazing cinematography. we were just very origin it to have this level of expertise, in all departments. and then, really to be taken care of the way that will and kevin took care of everything, as great producers do. there may be problems, but you don't know about them, you are there to do your thing. they created an environment for us, where we could all come together, focus on trying to tell the stories as actors as best as we could. >> what a stormy. as don says, it is an all-star cast , and kevin hart. >> there you go. right. the new limited series, "fight night a million-dollar heist" is streaming on peacock with new episodes premiering on thursdays. costar, don cheadle, thank you

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welcome back to "morning joe weekend". at 7:00 on this saturday morning and we have a lot more to get to this hour. let's jump in. hi, i'm bruce springsteen. friends, friends in the press of sme who i'm supporting this to porton of elections and with

full knowledge in my opinion is no more or less important than any of my fellow citizens, here's my answer. i'm supporting kamala harris for president and tim walz for vice president and opposing donald trump and j.d. vance. here's why. we are shortly coming up on one of the most consequential elections in our nation's history. perhaps not since the civil war has this great country felt as politically, spiritually and emotionally divided as it does at this moment. it doesn't have to be this way. the common values, the shared stories that make us a great and united nation are waiting to be rediscovered and retold once again. now, that will take time, hard work, intelligence, faith, and women and men with the national good guiding their hearts.

america is the most powerful nation on earth. not just because of our overwhelming military strength or economic power, but because of what she stands for, what she means, what she believes in. freedom. social justice. equal opportunity. the right to be in love with who you want. these are the things that make america great. donald trump is the most dangerous candidate for president in my lifetime. his disdain for the sanctity of our constitution, the sanctity of democracy, the sanctity of the rule of law, and the sanctity of the peaceful transfer of power should disqualify him from the office of president ever again. he does not understand the meaning of this country. it's history or what it means to be deeply american.

on the other hand, kamala harris and tim walz are committed to a vision of this country that respects and includes everyone regardless of class, religion, race, your political point of view or sexual identity. and they want to grow our economy in a way that benefits all. not just a few, like me, on top. that's the vision of america i've been consistently writing about for 55 years. now, everybody sees things different and i respect your choice as a solo -- fellow citizen. but like you i've only got one vote and it's one of the most precious possessions that i have. that's why come november 5, i will be casting my boat for kamala harris and tim walz. thank you for listening. >> let's bring washington bureau chief and usa today susan page and senior political columnist for politico, jonathan martin, new york times investigative reporter michael schmidt. talk about the springsteen endorsement and how the harris campaign likely wants to use that.

>> well, they obviously want to use it with people who are in the political center. people who are living and a handful of battleground states and, frankly, probably white folks who are springsteen fans, springsteen devoted he's, who are going to be persuaded by his rhetoric. also, i think importantly, a politically people picked are called low information voters, the kind of people not engage in the selection and are not really tuned in at all except for some big concept we had an election and you get a celebrity like that making an impassioned case like springsteen did and maybe you can reach a few folks who were largely checked out from politics are never even checked into politics in the first place? >> look at taylor swift, pennsylvania native, and many people mocking that until you find out that 500,000 or 600,000 people registered to vote and will most likely come

at her urging, a good number, could possibly go out and vote. there is springsteen pick and was springsteen there may be something different. there are a lot of people that voted for donald trump in 2016 that don't like the guy at all. we hear it over and over again. i hate him. he's obnoxious. i don't know if i'm going to vote for him. take wisconsin and remember ron johnson caught on camera trying to tell the person interviewing him, hey, trump lost because he got 56,000 less votes, less votes than every other republican that ran in the state of wisconsin. people that could not stomach voting for him. that was in 2020. i wonder if this springsteen add , or this springsteen endorsement helps move some of those people actually to vote for harris? >> yeah. it's all about creating that permission structure for people

who did not like the clintons and may be voted for trump because they could not abide hillary. maybe they reluctantly voted for biden in '22 stop covid and get trump out of office but they're not sure they can get there with kamala harris. this is a way of getting trump back front and center and saying, look, you are voting against trump-era. and kamala harris effectively is the vehicle to block drums returned and if you don't like trump and went back in the living room for four years, there's one way to do that and that is to make kamala harris the president. and by the way, those votes count just the same as enthusiastic vote for kamala harris. it doesn't matter if you voting largely against trump as long as you pull the lever for harris-walz accounts the same. and she by the way, is depending upon those people who don't have a lot of confidence in her or uneasy about her but

just cannot stomach the thought of donald trump as president again. >> the so-called double heaters and liz cheney went to wisconsin yesterday with kamala harris and take a look at what she had to say. >> i know that our security and our freedom depend upon a world in which america with our allies leads and above all else, i know the most conservative of conservative values is fidelity to our constitution >> i tell you i have never voted for a democrat. but this year i am proudly casting my vote for vice president kamala harris. donald trump was willing to sacrifice our capitol to allow law enforcement officers to be beaten and brutalized in his name, and to violate the law

and the constitution in order to seize power for himself. i don't care if you are a democrat or a republican or an independent, that is depravity and we must never become numb to it. any person -- [ applause ] any person who would do these things can never be trusted with power again. we must defeat donald trump on november 5. our institutions also held, because of vice president mike pence, who refused -- [ applause ] -- he refused to violate his oath to the constitution. and that is why mike pence is not donald trump's running mate

today. instead, j.d. vance is on the ticket. vance has said -- i mean, that's true -- i know, i know that a president harris, that president harris will be able to unite this nation. i know that she will be a president who will defend the rule of law . and i know that she will be a president who can inspire all of our children. and if i might say so, especially our little girls. [ applause ] -- to do great things. >> but i say all that to say

every time i've come here recently, one of the conversations that we have all of us together is how much we love our country and that that really is the binding factor in us all being together and taking the time to be together to really, just, renew and remind everyone of what is at stake. but born out of love that we have this fight. and i want to thank you, liz cheney, for reminding us that that, regardless of party affiliation, is a factor that binds us all. and so i thank you for your support and your leadership and your courage. >> liz cheney lost congress. she was terrible. liz cheney is a stupid war hawk. all she want to do is shoot missiles at people pick i really think it hurts. i think, frankly, if, look, i think beer so bad, both of them. >> stupid. that's what he said. stupid. what did he say about taylor swift? i hate taylor swift?

>> in capital letters. i hate taylor swift. >> he's like a third grader out at the camp. it's really unbelievable. so, susan page, very strongly here. i have never voted for a democrat, but this year i am voting for khmer -- kamala harris. liz cheney has good company. her father, vice president cheney. you have mike pence who's not voting for donald trump. alberto gonzales, kim adelman. donald trump's on secretary of defense, his own secretary of state and his own national security advisers. the list goes on and on. hundreds of republicans who worked in 43 and 41 administrations. who worked in one of reagan's administrations and donald trump's administrations all not voting for the republican nominee. talk about damning. that's about as damning as it gets. >> talk about courage. we should not forget what liz

cheney gave up for her break with donald trump. there was a time when we thought she might be a future speaker of the house and now she cannot even win re-election in one of the most republican states in the country. the thing that strikes me about the list of republicans you just named, none of them are in office now. tell me the republicans in office now who are willing to stand up to donald trump? some of them endorsed trump-era some of them just keep their mouths shut. but the list, i'm struggling to think of a single ranking republican who has stood up to trump. but liz cheney did and now she's at a democratic rally. she is being cheered. mike pence is being cheered. i mean, it's really quite a remarkable turn of events. but this did not, free for liz cheney. you know, these testimonials that kamala harris got yesterday from liz cheney to bruce springsteen, neither of them speaking to the democratic base. both of them speaking to

different groups that kamala harris will need if she's going to break this really tied up election in 30 days and when it morning joe weekend will be right back. a once-daily, extended-release td treatment for adults. ♪ as you go with austedo ♪ austedo xr significantly reduced dan's td movements. some people saw a response as early as 2 weeks. with austedo xr, dan can stay on his mental health meds— (dan) cool hair! (vo) austedo xr can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, or have suicidal thoughts. don't take if you have liver problems, are taking reserpine, tetrabenazine, or valbenazine. austedo xr may cause irregular or fast heartbeat, or abnormal movements. seek help for fever, stiff muscles, problems thinking, or sweating. common side effects include inflammation of the nose and throat, insomnia and sleepiness.

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welcome back to "morning joe weekend". let's pick back up on the conversation we were having before the break . >> mike schmidt, bruce springsteen talked about, and some of the others have talked about, how donald trump just doesn't respect the rule of law. you've had a fascinating series that you're working on talking about with donald trump's second term might look like pick you have liz cheney there, somebody who donald trump said should have to face military tribunals. somewhat right here who donald trump said i should be sent to jail and executed. tweeted that 12 times. you look at the fact that he said the

chairman of the joint chiefs should be shot for treason. says that media companies, and he names those media companies, should be shut down, that their ceos and leaders should be tried for treason. you can go down the list and when you bring this up to people they say, he's just joking. oh, he could never do that. but as your piece points out, he could do that and he tried to do that. at one point they made this argument, look, joe biden is going after me, which is a lot, but i did not go after hillary clinton. but he did. time and time again. and he got angry at multiple attorney generals when they came back and said, she did not commit a crime. we have nothing against her. she was trying.

and the thing i said before the election -- i'm sorry i have so much to say on this because it's so shocking that people don't seem to give a that is a voting for him. two weeks before the 2020 election he was pressuring attorney general barr to arrest joe biden and joe biden's family . two weeks before the election pick something you would hear about in belarus. >> i think this is the most important issue because it's not just that this is something that people shouldn't do and is something that has a long- standing -- the reason why this issue is so important is that it erodes the public faith in the government. so if you think the federal government is not prosecuting cases based on the rules and the facts, and instead on the whims of a politician, people start to say, well, am i going to speak out? am i going to say anything?

it has a chilling effect on a lot of the things that are supposed to make this country great. >> a lot of people are quietly talking about fearing and the lawyers are suggesting they leave the country because he's targeting them and has announced he will be targeting them if he wins. >> we've done a bunch of different large pieces on this. we have documented numbers how he tried to do this when he was president. when we went back and looked at what he wanted done and what actually happened, a lot more of it lined up that we ever thought it was going to be. there are 10 instances in which he wanted investigations done or actions taken by the justice department, in which the justice department went as far as they could until they basically, ran up to the judicial branch. people say, well, no one was thrown behind bars. no one was really prosecuted. and this shows the institutions

held up, well, a lot of things people don't invest -- appreciate is an investigation and of itself is a highly invasive, stressful thing for an individual to go under. it can cost them a lot of money. it can scare their families. it can allow the government to come in and to see into their lines and ways that you don't normally get to. so, even if there are not prosecutions, even if there are not people that are put before military tribunals, that doesn't stop just the simple existence of an investigation that can ruin someone's life? >> and they have promised -- they have promised, jonathan, that this next term, the trump second term, they will have people there who will execute every one of trump's orders and demands. and they have promised -- well,

bannon and cache patel. they looked at the camera and said they were coming after us. they have promised we will not miss next time. we will find our targets and we will throw them in jail? >> and that includes morning joe. it's worth underscoring that will not be guardrails and there won't be don mcadams of the road to try to stop trump- era his pledge this time will just be loyalists. still ahead we turned back to the new legal filing in the january 6 case against donald trump. we will speak with the key witness in the house investigation into the attack on the capitol. cassidy hutchinson. we will do that when we come right back.

here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max! i want to begin my thanking ms. hutchinson for her testimony today. we are all in her debt. our nation is preserved by those who abide by their oaths to our constitution. our nation is preserved but those who know the fundamental difference between right and wrong.

and i want all americans to know that what ms. hutchinson has done today is not easy. >> that was former republican congresswoman liz cheney in 2022 commending former trump white house aide, cassidy hutchinson, for her decision to testify publicly about the january 6 insurrection. last month, cheney, who was still a republican, endorsed kamala harris in the 2024 race for the white house. and on msnbc hutchinson joined the former congresswoman in announcing her own plans to vote for harris next month. and cassidy hutchinson joins us now. her new york times best-selling memoir entitled, enough, is out now in paperback. it's great to have you back on the show, cassidy. and definitely want to talk to you about your decision. but first i'm so curious about the process that some republican leaders are going

through right now mentally, and i mean that in all seriousness, because apparently it is still, donald trump, is still not enough, to borrow your titles, for a lot of republicans. can you help us understand why republicans like you and liz cheney seem so few and far between at a time when things appeared to be pretty extreme circumstances for this country? >> well, thank you for having me back on your show and the opportunity to be with you all today. in short, i wish i had a straightforward answer to your question because it's something that perplexes me frequently. i don't know why so many republicans, specifically the men, or still cloaking themselves in cowardice, especially in the face of donald trump and j.d. vance the republican party is something that is completely unrecognizable from what it once was.

but we do have faith in our leaders, like liz cheney, who have stepped forward, and adam kinzinger. there is still good republicans out there trying to salvage what is left of the party, that we need more people to step forward. we need more people like mitt romney who would be willing to make a decision to endorse vice president harris the presidency. this is a moment that is so much bigger than a political party and our allegiance to a political party, which led to my decision, which wasn't really a decision once i thought about it pragmatically, about now endorsing vice president harris. and once mr. biden, as well, who has displayed remarkable leadership in passing the torch to the next generation of leadership, which is something the republican party can also not do. i'm really grateful for the leadership of liz cheney and people like her. of nancy pelosi. and i have a lot of faith in the future of our country, but

we do need to do more in order to come back from the current state of politics we are in. >> what would you say to fellow republicans who might fear that in endorsing kamala harris or even in speaking out against donald trump they will go to lose what made them a republican in the first place? is the conservative values. have you found during this process that your sense of being a conservative has diminished somehow? or do you still see yourself as a conservative come even though you're supporting kamala harris? >> i appreciate the question. i'll be honest. there was a period i went through where i wasn't necessarily questioning my belief system, but i was questioning whether or not i could still call myself a conservative because i had been a very loyal supporter of donald trump. i work for him very loyally, and i made this big, dramatic split from, what i call, trump world. so i was struggling with whether or not it was authentic

to call myself a conservative. but as time has passed and that gained clarity of mind, i've realized that not only am a conservative, but if you are competent and rooted in my conservative principles today than i did when i worked for him. not only because he, in my view, does not represent with the republican party come into conservative agenda, should stand for, but because he has worked it in his image and worked it in his image with the body of enablers that also exist in congress who continue to proliferate lies and conspiracy theories to the american people. >> cassidy, you are a young and intelligent woman, who a few years ago was working just a few feet from the epicenter of american power, the oval office . you saw the president quite often. you saw the people around the president quite often. and then trump exploded and everything exploded around him. how did it change your life?

>> it changed my life in more ways than i can adequately describe. i suppose, in short, at the time, and this is the benefit of hindsight and to be able to reflect, i had not realized at the time how quickly i had turned from critical thought to just complete cognitive dissidents. i really believed in donald trump. i believe that he was the right person for our country. i did not believe in every single one of his policies. i knew that he had a temper. i believed he was often taking care of the american people. they shift between believing that wholeheartedly and seeing how quickly he devolved into madness and complete chaos to assuage his inter-pride, how willing he was to throw people under the bus and completely throw away any principles that he had in pursuit of power, that's not what leadership is.

so, i think, looking at all of this and all the lessons this has taught me, it's taught me that we are stronger when we are united. that we are stronger when we are not looking at our nation as an us versus them mind-set, as donald trump likes to propagate. he does that because he thrives on fear and he needs the fear and control in order to keep people in his realm supporting him. but a divided nation cannot stand and that's when grateful to leaders like liz cheney who have not only step forward but showed us that in the face of political cowardice, it's possible to do the right thing even when it's a hard thing to do. >> cassidy, good morning. good to see you. i want to remind people because so much gets washed away in the flood of news every day that on january 6, you are 24 years old. and as we learned from that house select committee and all the testimony and everything we

read about this, you were, and many points, the only adult in the room picky with the one speaking truth to power and i'm sure that was not an easy thing for someone to do a couple years out of college so you should be commended for that, first of all, and i'm curious as you step out and say as a republican you will vote like liz cheney for kamala harris, what your message would be to the republicans pick let's call them nikki haley republicans, who may be live in the suburbs and the tide of donald trump and they don't love donald trump and they don't like the chaos he brings, but the camp maybe bring themselves to vote for kamala harris, who they see as too liberal. they can't vote for a democrat. what would you say to them who are either saying i'm not going to participate, or just going to say, what the heck, i will vote for the republican anyway. what would be a message to them? >> in normal times, i think, possibly, it's okay not to vote. i would never advocate not to vote. i think that civic engagement is extremely important and that's what our nation thrives on. but we are not living in normal times. the reality of this election is that it's going to come down to

likely a couple thousand votes in a couple of states. everybody needs to cast about this election. we saw what almost happened in 2020 when donald trump try to hold onto power for himself when he did not win the election. next, steve rattner is charting the money race ahead the presidential election. we have a look at how much the campaigns are bringing in when "morning joe weekend" returns. ingredient, apoaequorin, originally discovered in jellyfish and found only in prevagen. in a clinical study, prevagen was shown to improve memory in subgroups of individuals who were cognitively normal or mildly impaired. stay sharp and improve your memory with prevagen. prevagen. in stores everywhere without a prescription. hey, scott. this stuff's perfect for fall, right? yep! it feeds your lawn now to strengthen roots all winter for a better lawn next spring. how do you know all of this? says it right there on the bag. yes, it does. download the my lawn app today

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we are taking a look this morning at the money race. let's bring in former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst steve rattner. good morning. one campaign, it looks like from the charts behind you, as far ahead at this moment in fundraising. >> first of all, i've been through a lot of political cycles and raise a lot of money, including for vice president harris and i've never seen anything quite like this as i will take you through. let's start with the money race through the end of august and we will look at the blue. the democrats. red, the republicans and we have a bunch of pieces here. this is the so-called hard money the candidates raise and this is money raised by the party committees democratic national committee and republican national committee and you could see substantial out raising there. and it would say also it's important to note 42% of the donors to the biden/harris campaign were small donors under $200 versus 32% president

trump, and that is a reversal of the past when trump had more small donors than the democrats did. but as you will see in a minute the small donors are out in force. an important number to note his cash on hand because that's what they have left to spend and you can see the democrats have a lead here in terms of cash on hand. one question you may ask is how does this compare to other cycles? and you can see the biden/harris campaign is on track to pass the last two cycles. this is inflation adjusted numbers of that makes it more significant if they had a record, which it looks like they will. here is what is exceptional. trump is way short of where he was last time. only raised about half as much money at this point as he had in 2020. and a bit more than he had in 2016. >> and obviously as we move to your second chart everything changed when president biden stepped aside and made way for vice president harris, energizing the base and sending donations through the roof. >> this is the extraordinary thing but the most extraordinary thing i think almost any of us have seen. you can see here through the spring by and trump were

piddling along. raising a decent amount of money. but here's what happened but the president dropped out july 21 and in the month of july, only with 10 days left in the month, $204 million raised by the then harris campaign and that carried into august. $190 million versus $48 million down here. we will see what september brings us when those numbers come out, but an extraordinary outpouring of money raising. here's the other thing that is exceptional. during his six months or so running, president biden had 2 million unique donors and that is a reasonable number. vice president harris past that number in nine days pick she passed 2 million that biden had throughout his campaign and is now up to about 4 million. if this indicates, or has any

relevance to popular support, this is an extraordinary outpouring of support. >> kamala harris has changed the race in many ways, but especially as you look at that graph. your third chart, the senate and the house in super pac fundraising. how does that look? >> to check in on all of that. a similar pattern without the drama of the kamala harris machine, so to speak. in the senate, democrats are raising republicans and have more cash on hand. again, good position for them to be in. and in the house, a similar pattern. more money raised and more cash on hand the democrats are well- positioned to go into this. but lastly what i've talked about so far is what we call her the money and party committee money picked the third bucket of money, which is a huge bucket of money of the famous super pacs we talk about

in here of the democrats, maybe not surprisingly, not doing quite as well. so far, and we'll have expenditure numbers and not money raised numbers for this, super pacs associated with republicans has been over $1 billion pick some of it advocating for republicans and some advocating against democrat. democrats have spent $785 million. not a huge difference, but it tilt to the republicans. when you add all these numbers up, it comes to billions and billions of dollars and i heard someone say the other day that a uk election cost something like 50 million pounds. this is an extraordinary use of resources and we look at what is going on in north carolina and places, think about what this several billion dollars could have done if it had been applied there, instead of the crazy political campaigns we run. >> it is an obscene amount of money picked before a let you go, after the charts, just a general question about the state of the economy because there's been so much from donald trump and others thrown in about the country going to and all of that. when you look at gdp and low unemployment and market soaring in the fed lowering rates, what is your snapshot of how this economy is doing? >> that's exactly right.

it looks like amazingly the federal reserve has engineered a soft landing and gotten inflation down almost exactly to its 2% target without triggering ever thought -- recession. the gdp continues to expand. there is pressure on consumers at the lower end. no question about that, from inflation and from having spent the covid payments they got. but all in all, this is an economy that continues to march along at a very reasonable, not extraordinary, but very reasonable growth rate, and that is good news for the vice president, which as you point out the election is about a month away. >> five weeks from today. morning joe economic analyst steve rattner. thank you. coming up. donald trump recently said that if he is re-elected, women voters won't be thinking about abortion because they will be,

quote, protected. our next guest is digging into the history of reproductive healthcare in america. especially when it comes to communities of color. that important conversation is straight ahead. are already rich and have the money. the 1% don't serve anybody but themselves. so for them to get a tax break, no, that's not cool. kamala harris is going to make billionaires pay their fair share, and she's going to cut taxes for working people like me. i'm buddy, and i'm not rich as hell, and i'm voting for kamala harris. ff pac is responsible for the content of this ad.

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welcome back. with abortion healthcare front and center in this year's election, a new book is focusing on the struggle for abortion rights that communities of color have historically faced. liberating abortion, claiming our history, sharing our stories and building the reproductive future we deserve, chronicles what the authors call the long racist history and battle for reproductive rights. the book also shines a light on the present day struggle women are now facing to access abortion healthcare following the supreme court overturning roe v. wade. and joining us now is the coauthor at that, renee bracy sherman, a reproductive justice activist and founder and executive director of we

testify, an organization dedicated to the representation of people who have had abortions and helped share their stories. they don't take you for coming on the show. for this book you interviewed over 50 people of color who had abortions, including activists and actresses, television writers, politicians, and two black members of jane, which we will get to and a moment. what did you set out to accomplish and what did you discover? >> one of the things that i found when i had my abortion as i looked at the conversation happening on television and in the news and politics and it did not include people who look like me, despite the fact the majority of people who have abortions or people of color picks so we wanted to be able to write ourselves back into history. we wanted to say, wait a second. abortion is been around since the beginning of time. it's been in egyptian papyrus is . it's been in ancient chinese medical textbooks, but where

are us? where are our stories? where are we in this conversation? . so all of us deserves to see ourselves in history and be able to see where are we going with what's next to to liberate abortion. >> and in these stories, real, true life stories of the confrontation with the need for this medical procedure, can you talk about making the case in this book for abortion being an essential part of healthcare? >> well, we know that abortion is extremely stigmatized. despite the fact that every single one of your audience members listening today, they love someone who's had an abortion, and yet we still treat people who have abortions as if we are somehow separate from needing healthcare are separate from our communities. so we felt like if we have a deep conversation about where the stigma comes from, this

fear of and pregnancy and misinformation, all of those things, we could not only liberate abortion to make sure people who have abortions and need abortions are treated with respect, but also that we could show up better with love and support for everyone who is pregnant and trying to build a family. that they get the care they need and that they get to have all the resources and the rights to make whatever decision is best for them. and that is through a framework called reproductive justice. that was coined by black women 30 years ago. and it's the ability to decide if, when and how to grow our families, and make sure we able to raise our families free from state sanctioned violence and coercion. we want to be able to build communities that respect all of us and all of our families. coming up. the new documentary, leap of faith, challenges us to consider whether we can disagree and still belong to

each other in a divided world. we will be joined by the film's award-winning director, along with his father. that's next on morning joe weekend. liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. cool right? look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right.

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the fact that we disagree is not insurmountable. >> you be who you are. i will be who i am and we will find a way through together. >> amen. >> preach, preacher! [ laughter ] >> i was holding this thing together out of the fear of

institution bailing, not for love of my children. >> i think being in a relationship with these 11 people has changed me. >> what would it mean if all of the polarization, fragmentation and conflict was this amazing opportunity for the gospel? >> it's a story about love. can people actually love each other? >> beyond tolerance. that is a holy thing. >> that is a look at the new documentary entitled "leap of faith" . the film follows 12 pastors of varying theological and political persuasions from grand rapids, michigan, as they are brought together on multiple retreats in an attempt to find common ground on issues such as gender equality, racial tension, and political

polarization. joining us now, leap of faith director and producer, award- winning filmmaker, nicholas ma, and his father, acclaimed cellist , yo-yo ma, who has performed a special screening of the film. thank you, both, for coming on. congratulations on this. i'm fascinated to hear the pitch of this. how did you do that? but more importantly, where were you surprised and found success and connection, and, perhaps, where their failures along the way? >> sure. i mean, i think the phillies are necessary for the successors. we are so afraid of feelers that we shy away from trying the thing that seems hard. i think about the movie as a little bit like having children. you dive into it and you had no idea what will happen. everyone tells you it's hard but beautiful. and i feel like that's what these pastors found. that was hard but it was

actually beautiful and i think we need that right now because so often we feel like these differences are cosmic and we can't cross them. but they managed to find a wholeness. i grew up going to my dad's concerts and that wholeness at end of a concert everyone feels and looks around and the like, i don't know you are what you're thinking but i know we feel the same thing. somehow that's what these pastors achieved at the end of this year together. >> nicholas, i grew up in the pentecostal church as a boy preaching and i know a lot of ministers growing up that just believed if you did not follow the dogma exactly the way they believed, you were going to hell. how do you reconcile people who are my way or the highway? with this kind of spirit that you were trying to bring about in terms of reconciliation? >> i think there will always be a chunk of people that don't think engaging is a good thing to do. that's a hard thing to contend with.

i think it's a much smaller group of people than we believe. in 2016 one in six family members stop talking to each other because of the election. and at the same time after the screening on monday, i know four families that reunited and found each other again. there is a way back and a way through. and i think when we assume people don't want to engage, we assume the worst of them and we can't imagine loving them and imagine they can love us. but that possibility of staying in relationship is what it's all about and what we are about as a country, and what this film is about. good morning. it is saturday, october 5th. i am alecia menendez with symone sanders-townsend and