f anything happens and there's anything dealing with law enforcement, you don't say a word and you get an attorney. keith (voiceover): as for darla, who'd finally found the love of her life, what was there to say? that moment of sunshine snatched away, huh? yep. you just take what life brings you, and it's not always what you had expected. when you're a young girl, you have all your dreams of what your life's going to be. and somehow, it just doesn't quite work out that way. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. [music playing] . good morning and welcome to the sunday edition of morning

joe weekend. it it was another fast moving newsweek. here are some of the conversations you might have missed. >> the first line of jack smith's 165-page filing the defendant donaldel donald trump he is immuned from prosecution for his criminal scheme to overturn the 2020 presidential election because he claims it entailed official conduct. not so. and he goes onto explain why. >> the special council making case and piercing the supreme court decision and we are looking at jack smith's election interference case. a judge unsealed the filing in response to the supreme court ruling on presidential immunity. smith argues trump was not acting as president of the united states when he sought to overturn his 2020 election law. so though his multiple conspiracies began after election day in 2020, the

defendant laid the groundwork for the crimes well before then. smith goes onto write that same day in an implicit acknowledgment he had no lawful way to prevail he sidelined the campaign staff responsible for mounting his legal challenges telling the defendant the truth that he did not want to hear which is that he had lost the defendant turned to a private attorney who was willing to falsely claim victory and spread knowingly false claims of election fraud. smith argues in the brief trump knew the claimses were false following election day and throughout the charged conspiracies the defendant his coconspirators and their agents spread lies that there had been fraud in the election that he had actually won. smith details conversations between vice president mike pence and trump in which pence told trump he had seen no evidence of fraud in the election. pence, smith writes, gradually and gently tried to convince the defendant to accept the

lawful results of the election even if it meant the defendant lost. smith also highlights trump's speech on january 6th writing defendant repeated the same lies about election fraud in arizona, michigan nevada, pennsylvania and wisconsin that were publicly or directly debunked. the defendant used the lies to inflame and motivate large and angry crowd of supporters to march to the capitol and disrupt the certification proceeding. the filing from smith details another conversation between trump and pence on january 1st. where the former vice president explained he didn't believe he had the power under the constitution to decide which votes to accept. trump then told pence, hundreds of thousands of people are going to hate your guts and people are going to think you are stupid. and beraided pence you are too honest. smith argues even if the court determines the conversations were official, the government can rebut the presumption of

immunity because the use of the evidence poses no risk to executive branch prerogatives. the content of the conversations at issue the defendant and pence's joint electoral fate and accepting the election results have no bearing on function of the executive branch. >> we fight, we fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore. >> of course that's donald trump on january 6th and this is 165 pages as mika said, it's a lot of detail. it's clear a lot of the testimony is coming directly from mike pence among other people around donald trump. but it seems to me and i will let you walk us through and explain the core argument is trump is not acting as president he was acting as a presidential candidate effectively when talking to mike pence about the things. >> i think that's exactly right, willie. supreme court said that certain official conduct is off limits.

a president, any president, mr. trump would be immuned from prosecution for official acts. so the government's brief here, styled as a motion for the judge to make determinations about immunity, but the thrust of the government's brief here, will -- willie, is that he was acting a candidate not a president but a candidate trying to secure reelection. and so, all those 165 pages have a similar theme. they lay out a series of acts of conversations, between the president and private officials in the most part. explaining that the president was willfully blind to the facts he lost. that he was urging people to act in fraudulent and dishonest ways, and he is trying to retain office. all of it intended to convince

the trial judge, district court judge, judge chutkan they are not immuned. remember, the supreme court had the easy job, willie. all they had to do is pronounce a rule. judge chutkan has to implement the rule and the government is trying to give her a path, a road map to implement the rule in a way they means mr. trump may be prosecuted for all the unofficial acts as a candidate. >> interesting. so, chuck, boy, this goes into the relationship with pence in a big way. the different efforts and different states to try to change the outcome. also, trump's tweets making it very clear by the way that it was him tweeting, but he goes through tweets as a candidate, casting doubt on election integrity. tweets making false claims of election fraud and tweets retweets attack those speaking the truth about the election.

tweets exhorting individuals to travel to the washington d-c save the america. and tweets regarding peps's role defendant's 2:24 p.m. tweet on january 6th. and i mean, it is very specific that these tweets were done by trump but my question is, how can you separate his official capacity as to his unofficial capacities not immuned, if he is still -- there's a transition that is underway. does that make sense? >> it does make sense, mika. and it's the right question. easy for the supreme court to proclaim. it's like 9th grade algebra teacher says i have to work harder study better and get grades up. hard are for me to did it, oozy for her to say. the supreme court said that official acts are out of bounds, immuned. now judge chutkan you figure it out and tell us which -- which

acts you think are prosecutable. so the government's making its case that every thing in the 165-page brief is prosecutable as evidence that maybe introduced at trial and used by a jury if they see fit to convict mr. trump of the fraud with which he is charged. but to your tint point, some of this stuff, and i have no doubt mr. trump's attorneys will argue, that some of this stuff is official conduct. particularly, right, conversations that mr. trump had with his then vice president. so, i think it's -- this is is a very difficult task for judge chutkan i couldn't get my grades up algebra easy for my teacher to say i should and harder for me to do it. this is the opening salvo in a long difficult stretch of pretrial litigation. >> well, that was one of my questions was if you thought this was going to be a tough slog to push this through the judge, but secondly was there

anything in here this surprised you? >> not real yes. it reads like a trial brief or memorandum before a complex trial, sometimes prosecutors and i've done this will file a trial brief telling the district court what to expect from various witnesses so there's no surprises. this is not styled as a style brief but as a motion for the judge to make immunity determinations. but it really lays out much more of the goffed government's evidence i don't know it's all but probably most of it at least in broad strokes, and so, because -- and they are doing this because they have to adues a trial that's not immuned and introduce an evidence used to convict mr. trump. the government superseded the indictment and struck from the original indictment passages they believe are clearly immuned. so the government has arrived at a place where they think they have the right stuff and balance of stuff, stuff that's

not immound from prosecution to push the case forward. does the judge agree? we shall see. >> donald trump was asked about the unceiling of this brief yesterday, the redacted brief in an interview last night. here's what he said. >> this was a weaponization of the government and that's why it was released 30 days before the election. and it's nothing new in there by the way. nothing new. they rigged the election. i didn't rig the election. they rigged the election. >> okay. so jonathan, he said someone else rigged the election. we can sift through that but if you look through 165 pages, some of the detail which again is not terribly surprising based on the reporting we have seen and based on volume produced by the house committee on january 6th and election of 2020, but there are some moments that stand out as when an aide came up to donald trump on january 6th as he sat scrolling twitter and watching

fox news, and said, your vice president mike pence's life is in danger the secret service rushed him and he is not safe and donald trump is alleged to have said, so what. when approached by his daughter ivanka and her husband jared kushner he said according to the brief it doesn't matter if you won on loss, you have to fight like hell. what stood tout to you as someone who wrote a book about this day and all the events around it. >> no surprises in here. but vivid detail and you tick through some. trump's callousness and uncaring on january 6th when there was violence. violence to the point put his vice president's life in danger. we have also in here, an unnamed campaign aide from an earlier moment saying make them riot. when there was a disturbance at another campaign office. this was part of the plan to stir unrest, to fight to

intimidate, to try to overturn the will of the people. and, you know this comes, john trump claims this is election incidents appearance. two rebuttal. first, let's remember 2016, james comey letter about about the fbi hillary clinton is a week and this is further out. the reason this is coming out now is because of donald trump's legal teams delay tactics. the push they have made and the supreme court decision about immuneity which jack smith is trying to circumvent. i don't think this qualifies as october surprise but it's reminder to americans what trump did, what those years were like, and what another trump presidency could be like. do you think it's going to matter this election. >> i think you are right. we have a lot of october surprises and we are in day three or day four and there are a ton and most around the world. i don't think this does count as one. so far, every time that donald trump has had a legal setback, and i think you know what chuck

was saying earlier about -- this is a hard for jack smith to define a role as a candidate or president given he was both at the same time. how do you discontinuing wish between the two. every time he had it in the past he used it to raise more money. he on the trump side, they feel this doesn't set them back necessarily. i think it's interesting that this sheds light on jd vance's last few moments when you heard donald trump about i didn't rig the election they rigged the election saying the election was stolen because it was a fake outcome according to donald trump. that is why jd vance was put in that position. it's a tough one to get through. >> morning joe weekend will be right back. weekend will be right back. hey, scott. this stuff's perfect for fall, right? yep! it feeds your lawn now to strengthen roots all winter for a better lawn next spring. how do you know all of this? says it right there on the bag. yes, it does. download the my lawn app today for lawn care tips and customized plans. feed your lawn. feed it. you didn't start a business just to keep the lights on. lucky for you,

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when you're governor congressman you are trying to solve problem. you want a straight answer on something. the moment that stuck out is i asked the simplest of all questions that every single american should be able to

answer. i asked him if donald trump lost the 2020 election he refused to answer. understand in that 88th minute last night, with that damming nonanswer, senator vance made it clear that he will always make a different choice than mike pence made. and as i said then and i will say now, that should be absolutely disqualifying if you asking to be the vice president of the united states. >> who are's the simple reason, the media obsessed with talking about the election of four years ago. i am focused on the election 33 days from now because i want to throw kamala harris out of office and get back to common sense economic policies. but i also think you can believe that america needs to have secure and free elections, but also talk about the fact

that just a couple weeks ago, democrats in the u.s. congress blocked a piece of legislation that would have ensured illegal aliens don't vote in the elections. if you believe american democracy, if you believe in our constitutional republic, you should be trying to strengthen american election integrity and not weaken it. >> michael steel your thoughts on this, and i am curious, i really think tim walz defind the election and choice in that moment during the debate. as much as you can see vance trying to sane wash it. there's a lot of use of that word lately. but there are -- there are a swath of voters who are watching maga tv whether fox news, news max rumble or whatever else they have going on out there, and they are not hearing anything about this or very little. i really feel like the harris campaign needs to get into the

arena. they need top surrogates going on fox news and going to the places and trying to talk to people, and he know that might be hard, and perhaps they are not welcomed. but then tell us that. i mean, we need to somehow get the entire conversation out there for all the american people to see, for all the american people to see the facts, and the choice. >> so, let's say this a couple i was. the first part. you are right. i looked at debate between vance and walz, as two fighters in a ring going at each other. one fighter vance, for, you know, out of a ten round bout for nine rounds, was winning on points. right. he was the judges were impressed by the style, the movements, he landed punches. he was winning on points. in the tenth round the guy losing on points landed a

knockout blow with one question. which utterly disqualified his opponent for the office that he is seeking. and that's a profound moment and he think that moment will register and has registered with the 40 plus million americans who watched that debate. that part of that what happened of that story, is what the campaign has to get out in front and which they have begun to do. almost immediately after that debate. with a very important ad that clarifies that. that's one. two, with respect to someone who's watching fox or news max or any of the stations, if that's their only source of news, there is nothing else we can say to them at this point. i don't think the harris campaign can waste its time on convincing the unconvincible. what i think they need to look at are those voters out there who are sitting on the sidelines saying, i just don't

know if i want to vote. and i think that's where the focus has to be. because those are the getable voters. they are not necessarily going to be persuaded by the knockout punch. which you have to understand and get to is what is the thing keeping them from getting in the ring with governor walz. and think a lot of that has to do with the economy. and which i was happy long shoreman peeling back the story line and look at relationship between, you know, mr. daggard and the president former president of the united states. and why now and that you talk about october surprises. right? the planning around that. when there were people trying to get that resolved before we got to this point. so there's things that touch on the economy of people that they want to use as a reason for not speaking out and speaking on behalf of walz and harris.

then address that for them. because those are the voters you are going to need in the battleground states. the fox viewer is not going to be moved by anything kamala harris has to say in the 34th day of the came -- left in the campaign. but there are voters out there who are on the sidelines who are making the excuse for not getting in. help them get over the excuse and give them the reason to get in the race because that's where the richness of the vote lies for them. >> we will dig into the dock worker strike. it could have a impact as this drags on if it does for several more weeks. chuck rosenberg to tie up the filing from the special council and look out ahead on where this goes from here you touched on it briefly before, but the trump team obviously gets a chance over the next couple weeks to respond to the filing. and then the special counsel gets to respond to the response and you are at halloween at that point. in terms of a impact on the election, it doesn't looks like

there will be one. but, where will this go from here as judge chutkan considers both sides of the argument of whether donald trump's actions were private or if he was acting in the role as president. >> you are quite right, willie. trump team will respond and argue that all of these things are actually official conduct and therefore immuned and the indictment in whole or in part ought to be dismissed. i want to touch on one other point wouldn't this constitution election interference. couple points here that i think are important. number one, this brief was in the released by the justice department. or by the president or by the harris campaign. it was filed by the special council and it was made public by a sitting federal district court judge. number two, whether or not she released this redacted filing she would be at least in theory

accused of some political decision making. the decision to keep it sealed by be viewed as political on one side and the decision to unseal it in part might be viewed on the other side as political. think the judge chutkan simply did what judges do. moving her docket along. there is a strong preference in the federal courts to make document public because the public ought to be able to see what is happening in their courts. and so she did what judges do. she made the filing public, again, either way, if you do, if you don't you are accused of filing something or withholding something and people think you are acting politically. to your other point, willie, this will take a while. you are not going to have an answer by october. there may even -- by the end of october. and there may even be more appeals as judge chutkan tries to parse what remains of the indictment to determine what is inbounds and what is out of

bounds. coming up, donald trump recently said if he is reelected women voters won't be thinking about abortion. because they will be protected. our next guest is digging into the history of reproductive health care especially when it comes to communities of color. that conversation is straight ahead. color. that conversation is straight ahead. the market's closed. futures don't sleep in the after hours, bro. dad, is mommy a “finance bro?” she switched careers to make money for your weddings. ooh! penny stocks are blowing up. sweetie, grab your piggy bank, we're going all in. let me ask you. for your wedding, do you want a gazebo and a river? uh, i don't... what's a gazebo? something that your mother always wanted and never got. or...you could give these different investment options a shot. the right money moves aren't as aggressive as you think. i'm keeping the vest.

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for abortion figures to play a prominent role in the presidential race it will be a major factor at state level this november. across the country, abortion related referendums are on the ballots in ten states including five that currently have some type of abortion ban already in place. the restrictions on reproductive health care in the u.s. is one of the topics discussed in the new book entitled abortion, our bodies, their lies, and the truths we

use to win. and the book's best selling author jessica valente joins us now. good to have you on the show. what are some of the more dangerous lies that you are taking on in this book? >> there are so many, think we saw a lot of them actually last night with jd vance, the biggest one being that republicans care about women's health. and that they are working to protect women's health. think vance worked really hard last night to try to seem compassionate because he knows that republicans are losing so badly on this issue. but americans can see what's happening in front of their faces every day and know there's nothing compassion about mess carrying women turned away from hospitals or cancer patients being denied radiation or little girls being forced into child birth. and so i think that is really the biggest one that they knew that this is what the consequence of their laws would be. and they did it anyway. >> so, in the book, you argue

jessica, republicans are backing away from the term ban when it comes discussing abortion you write-in part anti- abortion movements effort to row define ban means they are on defensive. literally running from their own policies. some republicans have even begun to adopt pro choice rhetoric calling their 12 week abortion bans plans to legalize abortion after 12 weeks. they are using the words to trick americans, making them believe that these laws are far less extreme than they are. americans getting angrier, and angrier at what abortion bans are doing to their families and communities republicans are desperate to hide the truth from voters. let's make it harder for them and we can start by pointing out that their science and expertise is anything but. tim walz made a great point no matter whether you are democrat

or republican, you will know somebody like the women on stage who died or had forced been forced to go through physical and mental trauma because of the bans. it seems like the truth is going to be popping up all around them and in their own lives. abortion is health care. it's not jd vance's version of a cat lady who doesn't want to have a baby. >> yeah, it's not going to be long before every single american has been touched by an abortion ban in some way. whether it's because they know someone who has been denied care, or because they can't get a. smear appointment for three months because the ob-gyns left the count pi. there's all these ripple effects as a result of the laws and they don't want to talk about that. they don't want to talk about the real every day tangible consequences they have on american women.

>> who is there anyway of being able to know how many women have been affected by threes coneian laws and rulings because we hear some of the horrific stories of a woman dying of highly preventable accepts ies prevent sepis and can you shed light on the stories you heard. >> i include those stories in the bock and i think one of the things that is so hard is that we are only hearing a very tiny fraction of the horror stories because people are afraid to come forward, especially when it is a loved one who has died. they know that the right wing media machine is going to attack the person. we have seen that happen with the women who have died and we have heard the stories and so there is this real fear about coming forward. the other thing that's happening is the anti-abortion movement is trying really hard to make it hard to track those

deaths. right. and so you have places like texas where they are putting and the abortion extremeists on the maternal mortality review committee to make sure that data that goes out doesn't reflect just how bad these things really are. >> so, the new book is called, abortion, our bodies, their lies and the truths we use to win. it's on sale now. author jessica valenti thanks very much for coming on the show this morning and congratulations on the book. we appreciate it. >> thank you. next, we will take a closer look at how third party candidates can impact the presidential election. morning joe weekend will be right back. morning joe weekend will be right back. know they can save hundreds on car insurance by checking allstate first. who's ready for my famous charred duck? like you know to check the mascot first before bringing food to a tailgate. so check allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift.

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how many voting members. >> compare us. >> no, no, answer the question. how many voting members in the united states house of representatives republican democrat and independent. how many total? >> how many total are there? >> yes. >> 600 some. >> it's 435. >> plus 100 in the senate right. >> 1 -- i said house and representatives. >> that was jill stein on the breakfast club radio show in new york unable to answer how many members are in the house of representatives. let's bring in she she is only 150 off. >> oh, my god editor at large at newsweek tom rogers. his latest piece is entitled jill stin blew it for hillary clinton will she do the same

for harris? let's start there. will she? >> well, all the focus went off third party candidates when rfk jr. dropped out. but there's real peril for kamala harris in terms of what remains. jill stein was responsible for hillary clinton not making it to the white house. her margins says in michigan was 50,000 votes and trump only won by 10,000 votes there. and the whole trump math is that we know trump has a ceiling. whether it's 47%, 48%, so, he needs to have somebody siphon off votes from the democratic candidate in order to win by bluality. and jill stein being on the

ballot is in a position we know it will come down to 1 or 2% margins. >> thanks. and to talk about how this is really changed american history especially this century, without ralph nader, taking a couple percentage points from al gore in 20,000 and jill stein taking a couple percentage points in hillary clinton in 2016. democrats would have won the electrical college but won the popular college but minus two spoiler party candidates, no republican would have been elected president since 1992. >> absolutely right, and it's not only the stein threat but cornel west is on the ballot in north carolina michigan and georgia and there's a double threat there. there's also a leb tearian candidate on all the swing

state ballots on leb tearian candidate pulls from gary johnson libertarian in 2016 actually polled more than jill stein but we know biden in 2020, was able to actually increase his margin while trump's margin stayed the same as 2016, meaning biden increased margin over trump probably came off the back of not having stein on the ballot in 2020 and getting the chair of third party votes. >> tom, help me understand, and our viewers to understand, that what is the point of the third party candidates? what are they trying to represent and why are they there? i ran in 2004 and decided to run in the primaries. i didn't think i was going to be president. because of we was right after 9/11. but, i wanted to be in the debates and bring out issues i

felt would not be discussed. what is their point of running. they are not in the debates because they are not running in the pry mareies. so, i mean, what is the point other than they end up messing up someone that may be closer to their politics than the other? >> well, think you ask the money question. i don't think there is a point other than to be a spoiler. they make the argument that they represent viewpoints that need to be on the ballot to give voters a choice even though they know they have no chance whatsoever of winning or no chance of even getting any electrical college votes. but it is very clear in the jill stein in 2016, russians through social media efforts were promoting her. it is very clear that both stein and west have benefited when it comes to signature collection to get on the ballot in swing states. that republican connected trump lawyers have been involved in their efforts and republican

money looks like it is at the heart of getting west on the ballot. so, these are spoiler efforts. and anybody who thinks about voting third party whether they are voting because they don't think harris is progressive enough and don't like her position on gaza and think because of fracking she is not green enough, all they are doing is electing donald trump president and anybody who knows a neighbor, a friend anybody who says i don't like either candidate, i think i am going to vote third party, let them know they are electing donald trump if they do that. >> the piece is on line for newsweek editor at large tom rogers, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. coming up, a look at the new off broadway play based on the trial of the first american convicted for the january 6th attack. the man's own son turned him into authorities. and he joins us next. to author and he joins us next. lose . protein supports muscle health.

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the tracking down everyone who was there. you know that's right. you know that videos and cell phones. >> government is closing in. >> isn't that, you know, bad? >> i don't care. >> how can you not care. >> i didn't break any laws. >> you smashed through police barricades and overtook the capitol. >> i didn't break laws. >> you carried gun on federal ground. >> okay we owned own and american citizens own. >> paying tacks gives you no right. >> who said i pay taxes. >> what? >> i had every constitutional right to care yea weapon and take over congress just because the law is written doesn't mean it is the right law. we went in there and they scurried away like rats and hid. that's how you do it. >> that was a scene from the new off broadway play fatherland, which opened last week. it is based on the trial of guy

wesley feffitt the first american convicted for the attacks on january 6th. prosecutors say he "lit the match for the mob at the capitol. the play is told from court transcripts case evidence as well as public statements and it centers on the relationship between the defendant and his son who reported him to the fbi and then later testified against him in court. joining us now is guy feffitt's son jackson and stephen sachs who conceived and directed. thanks for being here. jackson, we will start with you. let's talk a little bit if you don't mind about the real life incident here after january 6th that what compelled you to work again to turn in your father. >> well, the tip came from before january 6th. my dad was getting way more radicalized as time went on following trump. and isolating himself more and more and it was terrifying.

>> what are signs you saw. >> he was watching immediate and and isolated himself to online groups far right radical and growing more and more violent. not to just the family, but to the people around him. and it scared me. >> and then had you saw january 6th how soon after did you realize your father was involved and you had to act further? >> it was while they were pointing guns at the doors of the house. >> you saw him there. >> i -- he was texting my mom, and face timing her, and it was dilutional. >> did you have any hesitation about going further. he is your father but as you say you saw him there with guns and prosecutors said he lit the match of january 6th. >> of course. it was the hardest decision i made. and it continues to haunt me to this day. but, you know, i don't regret it, and i still feel for him

and my family. >> so stephen, let's turn to you now. talk to us, please, if you will, as to how you came across this idea this project how it came to be. >> well, i am the artistic director of the fountain theater in los angeles, and we have long history of creating and developing new work that is political or dramatizes urgent issues of the time. and in november i was hunting for a work of theater that would somehow add our voice to the national election that we were involved in. i was reading all kinds of scripts and hunting for plays. wasn't finding what i was looking for, and than i remembered the story of this young man who turned his own father into the fbi because of his dad's role in attack on the u.s. capitol. so i goggled it, and when i

discovered that the entire court transcripts were available online for public access, because it was a federal case, and then when i clicked on the transcript, and i read the testimony jackson's testimony, and the cross- examination between the two attorneys, interrogating this young man in federal court who had just turned his father in to the fbi, i was riveted by it. and then i realized, i have now found my play. >> so let's take a look at one of the more dramatic moments from the play, a fight between the father and son. >> everybody who was there on the 6th should be locked up for the rest of their lives everyone. >> are you recording this? >> what? >> are you recording this? >> no. i am not recording.

>> you better not be. don't betray me. >> oh. >> don't ruin the family. >> oh. >> do not put the family in jeopardy. >> i am not the one putting the family in jeopardy. >> if you cross a line here i will do my duty and i will have no other choice choose a side. choose a side or die. i put you in this world, and i can take you out. don't turn your back on me. >> i am not turning my back. >> you turn your back on me is a traitor is that what's happening if if you turn your back on meow are a traitor and traitor gets shots. >> extraordinary drama there, a family story but as you started to allude to so much bigger the one the nation is processing day in and day out and there are january 6th cases brought to trial every week. and it's the forefront of another election.

>> absolutely. and what to me makes this theater work stand out is that it is verbatim. it's verbatim theater. it's. >> the play that i wrote. every word of this play comes from court transcripts, public statements, and case evidence. so every word is the truth coming from the people who spoke it. and it really does dramatized a large political story that this nation is still grappling with. but at the heart of it, fatherland is a father and son's story. it is a story of a young man who somehow must summon the moral courage to stand up and speak out against his own father. to me, it has the echo of greek tragedy. it is shakespearean in a way, and yet, deeply american. >> moral courage is right. and jackson, your father was

convicted. he is currently serving a seven- year seven plus year sentence. what is it like for you to see moments from your life, the most difficult moments of your life, being played out on stage like that? >> so, i initially saw it about a week ago, and i -- they wanted me to read the scripts, and i said no. i wanted to be out arely surprised not only because i was nervous about the expectations of such a sensitive topic that has affected thousands of people, people like in this very room that have been affect by radicalized people, in these isolated dangerous environments. so, walking into the theater, i was utterly terrified. but walking out, i had finally cried because through the entire experience, it was nearly impossible for me to cry. just because it's one thing after another trying to be a

better man, but walking that theater and it being verbatim i didn't know really was until i left the theater. it broke me. >> and don't go away, we have a second hour of morning joe weekend on this sunday morning, right after the break. ay morni right after the break. safelite? we're always working on a project. while loading up our suv, one extra push and... crack! so, we scheduled at safelite.com. we were able to track our technician and knew exactly when he'd arrive. we can keep working! ♪ synth music ♪ >> woman: safelite came to us. >> tech: hi, i'm kendrick. >> woman: with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> vo: schedule free mobile service now at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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hey, welcome back to a second hour of morning joe

weekend. this sunday morning. another wild week is officially in the books and we want to show you some of the big conversations that you might have missed. take a look. hi, i am bruce springsteen. friends, fans and the press asked me who i am supporting in this most important of elections. i am with full knowledge my opinions no more or less important than those of any of my fellow citizens here's my answer. i am supporting kamala harris for president and tim walz for vice president. and opposing donald trump and jd vance. here's why. we are shortly coming upon one of the most consequential elections in our nation's history. perhaps not since the civil war has this great country felt as politically spiritually and emotionally divided as it does that at this moment. it doesn't have to be this way. the common values, the shared stories that make us a great and united nation, are waiting

to be rediscovered and retold once again. now that will take time, hard work and intelligence, faith and women and men with the national good guiding their hearts. >> you know, jane, there's so many things that were done right there stylistically. but the words he talks about how we are more divide than any time than since the civil wan and says it doesn't have to be this way. common values and shared stories that makes us great and united nations are the united nation are waiting to be rediscovered and retold once again. and then he says of donald trump, he doesn't understand the meaning of this country. its history and what makes america great. and at the end, i love how he says to the fans and anybody else watching, hey, listen,

just one guy's opinion. i know people think differently. but this is the most freshest thing i have my vote and that's why i am telling you it's so important. not only to vote for kamala harris, but to beat donald trump. what are your thoughts? >> well, look, he really does have a way with words, doesn't he? he has for a while. i just saw bruce and the e street band perform here in a washington my friend and they were in terrific form. and it was such a cross section. it is -- it is a display of americaa up americana of those who speak through the music and lyrics that are just piercing. he is just -- he is amazing. and i thought that was great

endorsement. it really was. it was pure bruce springsteen and i hope people watch it. >> you know, donny with mika off the show i can say you advertising and branding legend. she would tell me to be quiet and stop making your bed bigger. let's roll this and while donny talks so we can look at the visuals of it. talk us through that donny, why does that the second it hits the screen why does that appeal to americans so much? >> appeals from two reasons. number one bruce springsteen but number two, that is a seat that pretty much anybody in the country can relate to sitting in. that's a diner, that's in an every -- we all know the diner. and he's wearing the flannel shirt and something about springsteen that transcend every other celebrity. >> that flannel shirt talking

about consistency it works because it consistent with who he knows he is. >> the whole thing is authentic. and the whole thing is i have been outspoken not very but said many times it a way from celebrities democrats. they put you in the eliteist. bruce is in different place than everybody else. he is not red or blue, he is american. he is red, white and blue. and there's a trust factor and there's an hon of the there i and honest there and you say it best it is authentic. >> you know there's a challenge in there. which is, this is what i have been writing about in my songs for 50 years. and it is -- i almost his way of saying you say you love my songs, you say you love my lyrics. you say like you are a super fan of mine. okay, well, what you have been singing to, the songs that you've been singing to are

exactly what i am talking about now over the two and a half minutes. >> well, i am glad you brought that up because first i wish my father was here who also was a lifelong advertising executive creative director. >> no way. >> i started out there. >> you guys could have quite conversation. >> he fired you. >> i was about to say. >> told you stop wearing the baby gap. >> he went onto own his own company and he has a long history in the business. but i love watching campaign spots with him because he has such a similar take. and i think what he would say, too, is the other reason it works is that it respects the audience. it is not talking down to the viewer. it is saying, you're one of me, you're one of us, i am here at this table with you. sit at my table. and i am going to treat you like an adult. and then it says please, do the right thing. you can -- it's up to you, but here's why i believe so strongly in this. come sit with me.

and it is powerful. it's also really important because this is a moment where the campaign desperately needs more male surrogates and more trusted male surrogates to get the message out. and i think that's why walz has gotten so under donald trump's skin because he is a man that can be strong without diminishing others and without controlling others. and so, the more examples we see of that, and legends like bruce springsteen are directly in that tradition, the better. not just for kamala harris, but for the country. i mean, ultimately, this is about between liz cheney and bruce springsteen saying this is america. those guys over there who want to take away your rights, destroy the country for themselves and their pals, that's not america. >> yeah. >> this is us. >> you also bring up a great point where the harris campaign is right now. and we knew this was going to

be the case beforehand. i think we talked about it when you substitute joe biden for kamala harris, you are going to substitute a candidate who overperforms among for democrats and among older white guys, in wisconsin michigan and pennsylvania but underforms among people of color and younger voters. that's been switched since kamala harris is come on board. and now, it is the older white guys in wisconsin michigan and pennsylvania that the harris campaign needs to pick up. along with hispanics. she needs to gain and this is a message to those guys again in a diner, as donny said, everyone of the guys and all of us understand, yeah, it's an important message of those voters. more morning joe weekend after a quick break. weekend after a quick break. it's time to feed the dogs real food in the right amount. a healthy weight can help dogs live

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history teaches us again and again that democracy can fall they paul to pop lift and strong men. strong men who bow guile the fellow citizens with conspiracy theories and false emergencies. as my friend the late charles crowdhammer taught us, lesson of history is the task of maintaining strong and sturdy the structures of our constitutional order is unending. it is the continuing and seasless work of every generation. and that responsibility now falls on all of us in this election. we have a shared commitment, a shared commitment as americans to ensuring future generations live in a nation where power is transferred peacefully. where our leaders are men and women of good faith, and where

or public servants set aside partisan battles to do what's right for this country. so today, i ask all of you here and every one listening across the great country, to join us. i ask you to meet this moment. i ask you to stand in truth, to reject the depraved cruelty of donald trump. and i ask you instead to help us elect kamala harris for president. >> it's remarkable. absolutely remarkable. i ask you to meet this moment. it is so funny, you will have, i am sure, people on twitter and others saying she is a rhino no she is not she had 95% aca rating. acu rating. conservative rating when she was in the house as was i which

means we were so conservative usually we would make people uncomfortable at dinner parties if they weren't all republicans. this is not the mushy middle. dic cheney form are republican vice president not the murray middle. you can't call dick cheney a rhino either. vice president mike pence, also, a vice president not voting for donald trump. alberto gonzales, a man loathed by many on the left. that's what the people share. they were loathed at one point by people on the left by democrats, for being too conservative. they say donald trump not fit to be president of the united states. donald trump's own secretarys of defense say donald trump not fit to be president of the united states. donald trump's own secretary of states, saying donald trump not

fit to be president of the united states. donald trump's own national security advisers, multiple national security advisers, saying donald trump not fit to be president of the united states. hundreds of republican administration officials in bush 43s's administration and bush 41's administration in ronald reagan's administration, kim it's aelmen, all of them, saying donald trump is not fit to be president of the united states. we don't need john meachum to ask if it ever happened before in modern american politic. it simply has not. again, i don't know how anybody could see what happened yesterday and see what's been happening over the past several weeks with one republican after another republican after nor

republican that they used to pledge their loyalty to saying don't vote for this guy he is not fit to be commander in chief. >> i think the question is, you know, this election is going to be decided by a handful of states by a small number of voters in those states. and it's moments like this that could make that difference. had you go to wisconsin, when you go to michigan and pennsylvania, in north carolina, where i was just on assignment, and you have republicans, not just men, men especially, but also women, republicans who say, you know, if liz cheney can stand with kamala harris, on a stage, maybe i can vote for her. or maybe i can stay home and not vote for donald trump. this is powerful. i also think it's important because it does something liz cheney is doing something that

has not been done which is to say, you know what, i am going to stand with this black woman and i am going to wrap my arm around her and say she is a patriot. i am a patriot, she is a patriot, we are all patriots. this is the coalition of patriots that's not about party. >> right. >> that's about democracy. and what ever donald trump is doing over there, is not about you or us. it's not about america or democracy. it's about him. >> yep. >> and, that's a pretty powerful message. think we will find out on the trail how it is resinating. i think there's going to be more surrogates need. more answer,. >> more. >> it has to be the beginning is my take away not the end. >> you know, what liz cheney did was courageous and it's courageous because it cost her her political career. so for people who think somehow she is enjoying that moment on

the stage and cruising to political benefit, she is now a woman without a party. i will say i, too, like all the other people, i am a man without a party. and if you all will just forgive me for a moment of indulgence personal point of personal preference or whatever. >> privilege. >> privilege. it's been a while since i was on the house floor. so, we talked about it last week, but i went to the 30th anniversary signing of the contract with america. where we talked about -- and they said you are going to that with those republicans? my answer is i love those republicans. i said because those republicans what we said around in the back we were not talking about the crazy cultural war issues. we were constantly asking how do we balance the budget. why do we do to balance a budget and what leverage do we have not over democrats our own

leaders. how do we push our own leaders, how do we push or appreciators to push the tough choices and time and time again we lost, we lost, we lost, we lost and would win one. and then would go back. and would shut down the government. -we would vote down a rule that would shut down congress. and i was saying newt gingrich spoke at it and he said a couple things that were interesting. one he said you know how he did it, we worked and it was hard. and it was hard. that's the reason why we are the only congress along with bill clinton, balance the budget four years in a row. that has not happened in 100 years. and it was also a team effort. another thing newt gingrich said was anybody is close to donald trump, you may want to tell him how we did it. he goes you notice the word we,

we did it. and that's something that is missing right now. and so, i am not thrilled about the fact that my party has turned into what it turned into. liz cheney is not thrilled that her party's turned -- we always have crazy people there. we did crazy things. democrats have crazy people in their party. democrats have crazy things. but our north star was balancing the budget, being responsible with taxpayers money, and protecting the country and trying to stay out of people's business. and there's not a party that does that anymore. so, no, that was not easy for liz cheney to do. coming up on morning joe weekend, new polling from a number of critical swing states find a tight race for the white house. we will discuss the shift towards kamala harris on two issues that had been among the strongest for her opponent, donald trump. strongest for her opponent,

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there is is now polling from the cook political report finding kamala harris leading or tied with donald trump in all but one battle ground state. all within the margin of error. and there's been some notable movement on some key issues. joining us now with more on that publicker and editor in chief of cook political report amy walters. so what are the key issues you see movement on? >> yeah, when we saw just in the headline numbers top line numbers not much change between august and september. really just barely on the margin. but on the issues of immigration, and specifically the issue of inflation, donald trump's lead has either narrowed or in the case of inflation completely collapsed. so trump had a six point lead

who would do a better issue controlling cost and inflation back in august. and today, the two candidates are even on that measure. and on immigration, it is still trump's strongest issue but it was an issue he had a double digit lead on in august and it's now down to a single digit lead. the good news for trump is that for people who are still undecided in the race or who say maybe i will vote third party, they do see him by a pretty significant margin as being stronger on issues surrounding the economy. what is holding them back in many cases for voting for donald trump and it goes back to the conversation on your first panel, is donald trump's personal behavior. and so, this is the pressure that cross pressure for the- decided the-decided voters wanting to support his policies but not trump. person. >> this race couldn't be much

closer. the polling renext that. zero in on one state that is listed as tied and that may come as a surprise to some because north carolina, in the last few weeks, democrats felt like they had a chance to build a bit of a lead because of the scandal and snarling of the republican gubernatorial candidate mark robinson. and robinson's numbers have fallen in polling. but at least here, looks like he is not dragging done trump at all. >> that's good point and that's right. the democratic candidate part of the reason he built a big lead is he's winning over about 20% of trump voters. so there are plenty of voters in north carolina now who are happy to split their ticket. they say i am sticking with donald trump but i am not voting for the republican for governor. i am going to vote for the democrat. and i think that is something that in a state like north carolina, it's going to be

really important. but we are also seeing interesting -- this play out in other states, this interesting gap in state like arizona, where the democratic candidate for the senate building a bigger lead over kari lake who ran for governor there in the last election. and even as the race for president there incredibly close. so, we may see more split ticket voting in this election than we are used to seeing certainly used to seeing in the last couple of cycles. >> wouldn't that mean both in arizona and in north carolina that the efforts of turnout getting your solid base communities districts to turn out at a higher level than expected could decide both states in terms of whether presidential vote goes, because

the operations on the ground we don't see a lot from trump in either state and we do see some evidence of that with presidential candidate harris. >> yeah. >> wouldn't a ground operation have major impact. >> yeah, i think in a race this close, we will look back and point to 100 little things that made the difference between one candidate winning or losing, and it is true if you go back to 2020, a lot of the frustration among democrats that year was that they weren't able to do the on the ground organizing, and the door to dore campaigning because of covid. and they are doing that now. the trump campaign has outsourced a lot of their field operations to third parties. which means you don't have as much control over that. you don't know exactly what's happening and who they are targeting. the one thing we do know, though, at least from the last two elections, presidential

elections, 2016 and 2020, is that trump voters tend to turn out whether they get their door knocked or not. and in many cases, it's not pecked up in polling either. and so, trump has been successful in turning out his base even if the campaign itself has not been as efficient as the democrats have. >> all right. publisher and editor in chief of the cook political report, amy walter thank you very much for coming on this morning. >> thanks for having mow. we will turn to madison, wisconsin, the chair of the democratic party there. ben great to have you on the show. let's get latest, especially with liz cheney teaming up with vice president kamala harris today. how is that going to play out? >> we are so excited in wisconsin because the vice president and liz cheney is

going to ripon, wisconsin the place of the republican party when it was the antislavery party calling for change and more justis. at this point the republican party is drifted from the best spirit and liz chen hello, has been telling people they need to defeat trump to put the country over party and today shoal campaign i think for the first time with vice president harris in wisconsin, the state that tipped both last two presidential elections. it's exactly those undecided voters that amy walters talked about who are conflicted, and this is a moment when they can choose patriotism and love of country and make a choice for harris knowing that the water is safe, there are or republicans doing the same thing democrats independent and this is the time to make a statement about our constitution. >> still ahead, a republican appointed judge in fulton county strikes down georgia's six week abortion ban. we will take a look at that new ruling and its political implications. that's straight ahead on

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judge in fulton county, georgia struck down the strict six woke abortion and allows the procedure to resume and make it legal up to 22 weeks. the superior court judge explained in the ruling that liberty in georgia includes the

power for a woman to control her own body. he added the power is not unlimited stating, when a fetus growing inside a woman reaches viability, when society is assume care and responsibility for that separate life, then and only then may society intervene. joining us now from litigateor and legal correspondent lisa ruben. good morning. great to see you. people have been watching this case very closely to see where it would land. what was the decision ultimately by the judge here? >> decision by the judge is prohibition on abortion beyond that six week mark what fetal heartbeat is detected is no longer good law. and he says that's rooted in georgia's only constitution that there's a recognition of right to liberty and liberty includes a liberty of privacy, and that georgia's own law recognizes that liberty of privacy is broader than federal constitutional right. and on that basis, he said as

you just noted, although the state has a compelling interest in promoting feetal life, we are your balancing that against a woman's liberty of privacy to control her own body, the state's interest is not so compelling as to overcome the woman's right to control her body until fetus is viable outside of the body. >> this is the debate we heard a lot since dobbs the heartbeat six weeks versus viability at 22 weeks or whenever you set the standard. so, as of now, women in georgia up to 22 weeks because of the ruling yesterday can get an abortion. but i assume this will be appealed again perhaps all the way up to the supreme court. >> yeah, i think there are people who will be afraid to perform abortion in the intervening time period because this is not just a ban on abortion but it's a criminal prohibition on abortion and as judge mcburny the fulton county superior court judge notes the

woman could be prosecuted and he recognize all throughout his decision. this is i want to be clear with you and viewers, this is almost a radical decision in the recognition of the right of women to control their body and more importantly, to prevent against a sort of involuntary forced labor. there's a recognition that women are not as he says collectively owned community property. that they cannot be forced to carry a fetus before viability anymore than you or i could be forced to give up a kidney. that's a fairly radical conception of the right to abortion. and made a lot of women i know think oh my god this is the end of judicial gaslighting someone sees us. >> at the end of the idea of women being collective property and considered radical is extraordinary. lisa, so do we think this ruling can serve as a templet for other states with restrictive bans in place. >> i think it depends on what the state's law is

constitutionally. because each state is interpreting its own constitution. some of the other states that have recognized a fundamental right to abortion in their states constitution don't do so from a liberty perspective but for example on equal protection. here the judge is saying georgia has a long history of recognizing a broad right to privacy and he roots it there. on the other hand there are pieces of the opinion that could be very helpful for other judges to latch onto in particular, he really disavows textualism and originalism the constitutional interpretive methods of day and the problem for look for original public meaning is that it necessarily excludes half the population. women who had limited rights, in the 18 -- i am sorry 1860s when proinvestigations were put in place and black women who had no rights at all. and that's explicit in the opinion. >> so, lisa, women in georgia have a reprieve for the moment and women in other states were

there to be similar lawsuits has similar reprieves until the reprieves themselves are challenged by higher courts. presumably, the only way that this gets completely resolved and there is a standard that is allows women to have access to abortion up to 22 weeks of viability is for some decision to be made by congress or reversal of the supreme court. >> i think that's true. although, theoretically the final word is georgia supreme court interpreting its own constitution. what makes this decision really important is that again, if folks like former president trump are saying abortion is left up to states, this is a state court judge interpreting his own constitution. yes, it will likely be appealed all the way up to georgia supreme court, but, the text here that matters is georgia's constitution not the federal constitution. and while congress could make abortion legal, all across the nation for georgia's women right now, what really matters

is their constitution. still ahead here, it's been 24 years since malcolm gladwell released the seminole book tipping on the which became a "new york times" best seller. now, he is revisiting the work that propelled him to literary stardom. he will join us next on morning joe weekend. next on morning joe weekend. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ this one is for you.

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welcome back. nearly 25 years ago journalist malcolm gladwell writing for the new yorker published the first book which had the title the tipping point. how little things make a big difference which explores the theory ideas spread like viruses. and it was the first of his seven "new york times" best sellers. now gladwell is revisiting the themes of that debut work, with hi news book which has the title revenge of the tipping point over stories super

spreaders and rise of social engineering. and malcolm gladwell joins us. thanks for being here. what made you decide to revisit this subject, and the tipping point itself was largely an optimistic look. >> yeah. >> at the world. this one not so much. >> yes, it's darker. i was -- i was -- we live in darker times i wrote the first at the end of the 1990s. crime was falling, berlin wall had gone away, and i was in my mid-30s the world seemed like a happy place. this time around i was originally just going to do a light revise on 25th anniversary. and i realized i had so much more to say. my perspective on many of the issues changed. and i was not full of the same kind of sunny optimism i was when i first wrote the book. >> you know, malcolm, i don't mean to say you are a guy who is in love with epidemics.

but, i mean, there's a lot of epidemic stuff in the book. let's leave covid aside, and go to opioids. >> yeah. >> do you think that the american people are more susceptible being swallowed by an epidemic like opioid than other cultures. >> opioid crisis begin and end the book with an account of the opioid crisis. the last chapter is summation of the arguments is my kind of revised history of what happened. and i open with a very simple graph, and shows opioid overdoses in all the major western countries. and what you see is united states is up here, and scottland is close to us, and go down a whole canada and than there's a whole series of countries, france, italy, portugal, with the basically had no opioid crisis at all. so, for us to think about this one of the big themes of the book is epidemics have ideas and behavior observed

boundaries in way that viral epidemics do not. and we need to be asking the question, your question, looking at the countries that didn't have an opioid crisis and why why. it's not because it's not because they are richer and we are not richer than them. it's not because of -- they don't have lower rates of unemployment than us. no, in every way, we are probably a more successful economy than they are. it's somehow they have avoided da taft catastrophe this country has gone through. >> what is the answer. >> purdue pharma, the company that produced oxycontin was able to exploit some holes in our way that we regulate pain killers. in particular, they were able to target a small number of doctors. they realize a couple of,000 dollars were all they needed to carry their epidemic forward,

and they ruthlessly pursued, persuaded, exploited whatever manipulated the doctors. and that same dynamic is not in other countries in the west. >> the covid epidemic and opioid ep dem being i see why it makes you feel darker but is there something more than that, something you know, we spend the whole time on the program thinking there's so much going on in the world that's not particularly sunny but is there something structurally in the world or in your relationship with the world that made you less optimistic? >> maybe it's because i am just older. i have kids now. i worry once you have kids you worry about things you didn't worry about before. i have a chapter in the book on called popular grove it's not the real name but a perfect upper middle class suburb that had this ongoing crisis in their school system over the last ten years or so. affluence, essentially, but the

extraordinary expectations that placed on kids. and that's a kind of new kind of problem that's quite specific to america. and that's occurring in most unlikely of places. if you visit the poplar grove this is a last place you would think was being engulfed by this kind of i don't want to give away what's happening there. so that's a kind of realizing that sometimes we have problems because we have been successful in other areas, that's something that is new to my understanding. and it was central to the book. >> next up here, nbc news national and political correspondent and academy award filmmaker join us to discuss documentary separated detailing the trump administration family

separation policy at the southern border. the important conversation is straight ahead here on morning joe. straight ahead here on morg joe. i know about 20 of you, and you're rich as hell. we're going to give you tax cuts. i'm not rich as hell. i'm the one that really needs the break, not the people that are already rich and have the money. the 1% don't serve anybody but themselves. so for them to get a tax break, no, that's not cool. kamala harris is going to make billionaires pay their fair share, and she's going to cut taxes for working people like me. i'm buddy, and i'm not rich as hell, and i'm voting for kamala harris. ff pac is responsible for the content of this ad.

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the government thought that showing the world separations through the eyes of people like me, they would scare the -- out of people attempting to come from coming. >> is that the right strategy. >> if you are part of a family and break the law you are incarcerated. >> i never seen anything like that. there are 1500 kids in there. >> a federal judge says the

government needs to reunite young immigrant children with their parents. >> we had 14 days to reunify all of the children under 5. >> there assessment form of the system doesn't have much information. what's your mom's name mom. every mom, their name is mom. >> do i call it child abuse or torture? >> separation was the purpose. prosecution was the tool. >> it's not over. five years later, we are still trying to reunite up to 1,000 children. >> there's nothing to stop them. >> this is a new era. >> troubles me profoundly that it could happen again. >> that was look at powerful new documentary from nbc news studios titled separated. based on "new york times" best selling book of the same title from nbc news national and political correspondent, jacob

soberoff and fill being maker erol morris. it describes the impact of the family separation policy by the trump administration at the southern border. and they join us now. jacob serves as executive producer on the project and jacob, we can add the title of movie star to your introduction. so this is a story obviously you have been covering for a long time. viewers of the network will feel like they know it. tell us why the film is so important. >> >> don't take my word for it. look at what george w bush appointed judge in the southern district of new york who stopped the policy said about it. he said it was one of the most shameful chap of chapters in the history of the country. not my words republican appointed judge. 500 kids were separated from their parents for no other reason than to harm them and hurt them and scare people from coming to the united states. it's a part of a pattern of immigration policy in the united states that is bipartisan that revolves around deterrence and scaring people

from coming here by hurting them and most profondly obviously with the famous example of the trump family separation policy. and there's questions about why it happened and how it could have happen and how the nation let it happen and erol and i decide to do when he has done a spectacularly beautiful film that only he can make. >> you just mentioned that it was part of a pattern deterrence and it happened for two decades now. what is the alternative to that? >> the alternative is a system as the biden administration had laid out when mayorkas came in as homeland security secretary humane and fair. i am not an immigration policy expert. i am a journalist who witnessed this myself and what i can tell you is what happened in the summer of 2018 was not that. >> hi, it's molly, you are. >> hi. >> you are known as such a legend, what drew you to this

story? >> i had read the book, book is an important book. policies are nightmare like. and i felt that it was important to do something. call great are attention to what had been going on during the trump administration. i felt quite impassioned about it, and i was given the extraordinary opportunity to make this movie with jacob and for that i am truly grateful. >> so, in her upcoming memoir former first lady melania trump made her husband, then president trump drop the hard lien child separation immigration policies. the guardian got their hands on the book and reported former first lady told her husband this has to stop. emphasizing trauma it caused the families. and seeing him swiftly comply. can we fact check that did we see the trump administration

change the policy on a dime whether or not the former first lady. >> he said why he topped he didn't like the sights and sounds of the children separated on television. but as i reported in the book, and you will see in the film, he wanted it reinstate it and has not said whether or not he would reinstate it. and that's why there are -- you know that's why the fill s so important what errol has done to answer questions what the future holds as much as in the past. including what the biden administration has promised but has not done which is have the whole sale radical departure based on deterrence and cruelty. that's all the time for this weekend. thanks for spending part of it with us. tune in tomorrow for new week of morning joe as we inch closer to one of the most consequential presidential elections of our lifetimes. until then, enjoy the rest of your sunday. til then, enjoy th your sunday.